Are septic tanks allowed in Crestwood?
A rumor has been around for the last six months that the swim club, operating on a Creve Coeur permit, used "septic tanks" in lieu of a hook up to MSD lines.
I would like to set the record straight for once and for all. If you have personal knowledge of this, or if you have a set of "as built" plans, would you please share it with us.
I am having a hard time believing that this is true, but it is persistent, so let's clear it, and move on!
Tom Ford
No. 156
I would like to set the record straight for once and for all. If you have personal knowledge of this, or if you have a set of "as built" plans, would you please share it with us.
I am having a hard time believing that this is true, but it is persistent, so let's clear it, and move on!
Tom Ford
No. 156
posted by Crestwood Independent at 20:46
47 Comments:
If Crestwood Swim Club built their original pool with a Septic Tank and was allowed to backwash their pool water into the MSD sewer line at the top of Bali Court, who approved these drawings?
Check out the Report by Preferred Pool and PGAV that justified the blighting of the original Crestwood Swim Club.
Who appoved of their plumbing and electrical?
Who was the inpector who issued electrical, plumbing, and building permits?
Were these permits issued by St. Louis County, City of Crestwood, City of Creve Coeur or Crestwood Pool Members for the electrical, building, and plumbing work?
What are those two white caps sticking out of the ground on the side of the Crestwood Swim Club?
Is this the air holes for their sewer lateral tank system approved by whoever?
Who was the structural engineer who approved of the retaining walls surrounding the Crestwood Swim Club?
Who is liable for a break in this wall when mother nature causes a tornado or wind thrust?
Does the Crestwood Swim Club carry liability issurance for wall crackings and raw sewer dumping in the City of Crestwood ground?
Is this under jurisdiction of EPA?
Is this under the jurisdiction of Missouri Natural Resources?
Is this under the Crestwood Swim Club/Rosebrook Real Estate Rules and Regulations of their corporations?
Did Crestwood Planning and Zoning approve of this Sewer Lateral Tank System with Vent Pumps?
Oh No! Was Alderman Kelleher and Alderman Pickel on this board?
What is the purpose of our Ordinances for the City of Crestwood?
Check out MSD for the Crestwood Swim Club drawings.
Flamming Pit and Schnucks are still on the drawings.
I guess Kohl's was never built but the Crestwood Swim Club got their new pool!
How much did the Crestwood Swim Club actually receive from this Kohl's deal? Was it $850,000 or $1.4 million? Is that why the City of Crestwood became broke over the $1.4 million?
From the timing of the previous posts - one can only assume it may be the same person - ranting on and on
and on and on and on for years......
http://www.askoxford.com/results/?view=dict&freesearch=ranting&branch=13842570&textsearchtype=exact
Rant— ORIGIN Dutch ranten ‘talk nonsense, rave’.
You must have me confused with the Crestwood Swim Club members during their parties!
By the way, I am not Dutch but an American who believe in our U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights which is our law of the land!
What do you believe in?
What are doing for your country to make it better for all?
Remember Hitler was successful by changing the laws of the small cities!
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxv.html
The Constitution of the United States of America
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Are you protecting and fighting for our democracy?
Well my friends, I received a call today telling me that "septic tanks" were not used in the construction of the swim club pool (thank goodness,) so that put's that to rest.
What some folks apparently mistook for septic tanks, were in fact "lateral tanks". That is no doubt the reason for the two PVC pipes protruding above ground near the pool.
A lateral tank might be used (not for raw sewerage,) but for water runoff from showers, pool cleaning, and the like. If this is the case waste water, cleaning chemicals, and the like are run into the lateral tank, through gravel, and eventually end up in the ground soil. I hope that this is not the case, and that the waste water drains are indeed hooked up to the MSD lines.
The caller today told me they have pictures of the tanks being installed, and will send them to me. If that in deed happens, I will post a copy for your information.
Tom Ford
The first 5 notes on this blog are credible and serious questions which demand answers. Where can we start? And, when? It is becomming more and more apparent that this swim club is a cause for grave concern, and the next step must be to get answers NOW, RIGHT NOW!! Making it even more evident and apparent there is something rotten in Denmark is the CONSTANT snide, caustic and incoherant remarks by a swim club member/s who apparently can't be reigned in and who knows full well the answers to the questions posed in the first 5 notes. What is best for Crestwood as a whole is not being represented in this private facility and our officials who are not affiliated with this club are duty bound to probe until there is no doubt left. This is a priority. Crestwood cannot continue to run amok in the mud of politics and special interests.
How about here?
http://www.epa.gov/OUST/
Since you know that the snide caustic remarks are being made by swim club members, you must be pschic. Therefore, you can telepathically absorb and transmit the answers to all of your questions. That should simplify your investigation. Let us know what you find out on the Psychic friends network
Man alive 6:56, you sprang on that one like a fly on you know what. You really don't have a life, do you?
Thanks for verifying what is now so obvious.
See you are psychic--you know that I don't have a life and get all of my information on this blog
Septic tank or sewer - either way it's a royal flush!
After you read about the Love Canal, ask your neighbors about their cancer and birth defects within their household?
Who did the illegal dumping of chemicals in the city of Crestwood sewers and land?
How did did TPH, Benzene, and EthylBenzene show up in the bore samples on the City of Crestwood Parking Lot?
Do we have to wait another 50 years to find out what is causing the high cancer rate in Ward II?
http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/lcanal/lcreport.htm
One of these is the Love Canal landfill, in which the Hooker Electrochemical Company, now the Hooker Chemical and Plastics Corporation, admits to the deposition, between 1942 and 1953, of 21,800 tons of chemical wastes from its plants in Niagara Falls. These wastes -- some drummed, some not -- included chlorinated hydrocarbon residues, processed sludges, fly ash and other materials. The City of Niagara Falls also used the site for disposal of municipal wastes for a number of years, concluding in 1953.
http://www.greens.org/s-r/078/07-09.html
In an effort to control the dust, the city contracted with waste oil hauler Russell Bliss to spray the roads at will during the summer of 1972 and 1973. This was thought to be a bargain at only 6 cents per gallon of oil used. City funds were insufficient to pave the roads, and spraying was thought to be the only solution to the dust problem.
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/MO-TimesBeach.html
What the city and the stable owners didn’t know is that Bliss had subcontracted to haul waste for the Northeastern Pharmaceutical and Chemical Company (NEPACCO) who operated a facility in Verona, Missouri. During the Vietnam War, this facility had been a producer of Agent Orange and the waste clay and water removed from the plant contained levels of dioxin some 2,000 time higher than the dioxin content in Agent Orange. Bliss would later claim he was unaware that the waste contained dioxin. In the meantime, he was spraying the dirt roads of Times Beach, as well as area horse stables, with the lethal material.
Is there a connection between Richard Bliss and Wuellner Service Station that was on the corner of Watson and Sappington which is now Kohl's?
Which company or city bought the Wuellner Service Station property?
How laid out the sewer lines and water lines in Ward I and II before MSD was created in the 1950's?
Could these sewer lines be running in the same ditch?
Who issued the permits for the sewer and water lines for Ward I and II?
Who issued the permits for the St. Louis County Water lines and underground water storage tanks which is now Missouri American Water Company?
Who may owns the sewer and water lines in sections Ward I and II?
to 4:08pm you really have an analytical mind. However, with this kind of intelligence, please do something more worthwhile than noticing that it may very well be the same writer. Let's talk about something important, something you know about, and something we know you know about such as the Creve Coeur permit rather than a Crestwood permit for your pool and the laterals which are not legal but were permitted for your pool. You must know the jig is up!
Re blogger at 10:58 am. There is definitely a long and old political connection going on between the owner of the service station and Mayor Bess and Mayor Murray. It would not surprise me at all if this is when the underground storage tank issue began. I don't know about a connection with Bliss and the service station, but I do know that the owner of the service station had lots of land and money and was very much involved with the two mayors previously mentioned and if there was any type of cover up, it would not surprise me at all. Mrs. Wuellner died of cancer and her daughter got a job back in the early 70's through Mayor Bess at the City of Crestwood. Mrs. Wuellner was very powerful and had connections with the City and got whatever she wanted from Crestwood because of her status. This is not made up, it is true and I saw it.
The story of the Underground Storage Tanks and Russell Bliss and his involvement with the city could have very easily been covered up by the city at that time to keep this very influential and extreme rich citizen appeased. As I stated, this issue has a very long history in Crestwood and I don't know if it will ever come to an end or the truth be known.
In the meantime, we all sit here and wonder who is still covering up for past transgressions and how do we get straight answers when powerful people and their connections keep the morale majority in Limbo. I guess we all can move away!
The questions and concerns posed on this site of late regarding the sewer and water lines and tanks buried on the city hall lot and the possible septic tank being used by the private swim club and the serious health concerns surrounding same are front and center now - no longer tucked away. Repercussions to the unsuspecting public have been gravely ignored, not to mention the possibility of corruption and broken laws. (It can happen!) Waning tax revenue is serious, too, but not as serious as the abovementioned concerns.
For starters how about proving asbestos was actually removed in the buildings torn down where Kohl's now sits? Are there buried tanks beneath the city hall lot? Is there a septic tank being used by the private swim club and who issued their building permit? Did members of this club serving on city boards recuse themselves? Aldermen get what $300/Mo and a civic responsibility? Well, it is beginning to look like time to roll up some sleeves and open Pandera's Box. Living in Crestwood is not the joy it used to be.
Isn't it interesting that the city fathers don't blink an eye when it comes to paying off 2 former city administrators, several sexual harrassment lawsuits, and a city finance office with the IQ of a squirrel. Plus paying $830 to the ex CA/PC so he could drive a BMW 4 blocks to work. Not to mention plans and fees wasted on the proposed $14.5 Million Dollar Rehab slated to become the palace for this ex CA/PC, who in full knowledge of the city's financial condition, and declining tax revenue encouraged it, and tried to tell us the voters wanted it. Sure they did, while paying the elec bill with a 3.5 M. line of credit. Hey, these are the facts.
Hours at Whitecliff have been reduced and city staff is now reduced to reasonable. Streets, snow removal and storm sewer problems are somewhat curtailed. We are a small burb with some outsized problems, trying to make a comeback. Faced now with some some unanswered questions in the heart of our city and a split BOA which may or may not live up to expectations. What a hoot to play up politics in a town with bigger fish to fry. Where do these candidates come from?
The bill of goods the residents of Crestwood have been served in past years is beginning to surface,no longer under a rock. Good things are happening! Residents agreed to a tax increase in April, and I hope a magnifying glass will be used on expenditures for the next 5 years.
Major health issues have been raised as mentioned above and they are far more important than politics, outlandish and undeserved ex-employee payoffs and perks, and snazzy new facilities.
Democracy in this town does not have a chance if the Aldermen and the residents are not in sync. These issues I have mentioned could very well ultimately challenge our incorporation. Perhaps St. Louis County would have investigated by now. For Crestwood these penetrating issues are clearly out in the open. Charter issues and political infighting, and the ridiculous South County paper which likes to throw coals on the fire pale in comparison.
Well, ok folks, we can discuss this until another ward two resident is diagnosed with cancer, or we can contact the State authorities, the EPA, and whomever else we need to to have this checked out for once and for all!
I will be contacting our City Engeneer to ask him what, if any knowledge the City has of this,and ask him for the City's help with bore samples, ET AL.
I have seen the Ward two map that shows the households with cancer, and what type of cancer at that. My wife and I have had cancer, and a couple of neighbors have died from it. Once you look at this map, you will see that this "cluster" is not normal, so something is causing it, but what?
I don't know about all of you, but before I shuffle off this mortal coil (I may have it again in the lung,) I am going to find out why (the cancer,) if I can.
I want to know, you want to know, and if the truth be known so do the people who live, work, and play in the the area.
If this is a prior problem, so be it, if it's chemeicals entering the ground now, let's get it stopped now, we can do no less for the resident's, and especially the children!
Tom Ford
Since the origin of the aforementioned health concerns are centered in Ward 2, I am wondering which Ward 2 Aldermen past and present have initiated any action or shown any concern in this regard (Trueblood, Kelleher, Pickel, Vincent)???
I notice the priorities and the interesting charade that happens twice a month at BOA Meetings. New players, but same old, same old.
The fact that action seems to be centered around Charter issues i.e. term limits, censure, recall percentages and when to put it on the ballot, who the Mayor assigns to boards, closed sessions to vote (would you believe by "unanimous" vote)on PAYOFFS to ex-inadequate employees, insults to the audience, and the Mayor, if possible, how many tie votes this amazing board can stigmatize the city with, and how much fodder can be fed to the laptop of the attending county paper to short circuit the duly elected Mayor and his accomplishments and supporters. Tax revenue is still short, but residents approved a tax increase. Expectations are high!
The horse is out of the barn now on this health issue. I see a priority here. Doubt surrounds the private swim club and its interesting relocation deal. Time to dig into this doubt.
I don't care where an Alderman swims, prays or sloshes it down. I do care about his integrity, his honesty, his official presence and his ability to prioritize the top needs of his ward and his city. If he does not have time or inclination to this detail, I wonder about his motives.
Your rambling post doesn't even make sense.
Here's an idea. Just read the 1st paragraph and tell us which Alderman/men in Ward 2 has/have opened this subject up for discussion.
C'mon,you can comprehend that.
These issues have been brought up at BOA meetings in the past and nothing publically has been said one way or the other.
I agree - contacting the city instead of going on, and on, would be definately a step in the right direction.
Also - is there a map of the entire city instead of just Ward 2? Never know could be the water! (just kidding)
How many people in ward 2 with cancer have smoked? drank excessively? Overweight? How many have family history, genetic predispostion? How many people have other lifestyle factors that increase their risk for cancer. Before anyone goes around claiming there is an actual cancer cluster, there are many other variables that need to be looked at first.
I agree with 12:43 PM. Most all board of aldermen members who were suppose to be doing their jobs at that time failed. But they will never, ever include themselves in the blame.
If the previous administration is part of the reason for the position Crestwood is in today, and I do believe that, not one person on that board will have the courage to come right out and say that they were guilty and negligent by allowing it to happen.
It would do wonders for the people of Crestwood to hear the aldermen come out and admit their part in this whole police facility issue and also allowing other money to be spent without researching anything themselves.
They were present at the time when we were about to build a police station, when they were ready to send the employees to Westfield while the new facility was built and the people had to take action to stop it. Why not tell us that the administration blindsided them and because they didn't do their homework, we are where we are today because of it.
Then they glorify Greer and appoint him to CA and Police Chief, and HE put the last nail in Crestwood's coffin.
Instead of going to the outside and finding a new administrator, at least an HONEST ONE with proper credentials, they settle for Don Greer, a person hell bent on controlling the city and spending city money that we didn't have, and the city went from the frying pan into the fire. Why? Because Tom Fagan said we were saving money by giving Greer, all that power.
Fire Chief Kramer and Police Chief Loyd years ago knew that Don Greer wanted Leichliter's job and said so on many occasions. A truism, ask the old timers! And Tom Fagan gave Greer what he wanted from the first day he came here. He came to Crestwood to build his empire and used Tom Fagan as his spring board. Will Tom Fagan admit he too was duped by Greer? I doubt it! Out of his own selfish pride, he probably still feels Greer did nothing wrong. Would Mr. Fagan ever admit that Greer walked off into the sunset with more money than what he deserved and licked the platter clean as far as what he walked away with? To this day, I would bet that Fagan is still only blaming Leichliter for his part, when that was just the beginning of the problem.
No doubt in my mind that Mr. Fagan will run again for mayor down the line. He isn't done yet believe me. It will happen or he will back someone who hates Roy Robinson just as much as he does when Roy Robinson wasn't even around then with the exception of being a commissioner on the Police Board who watched Greer posture and boast about himself like he always did.
Poster 11:20, just what the heck does your comment have to do with septic tanks? Try to stay focused on which bit of history has your bowels in an uproar.
12:40 blogger,I like that. "Bowels in an uproar" and septic tanks. You stayed on message!
To the 10:37 AM blogger. How many of the children afflicted in the area "smoked, drank to excess" were overweight"? Or were they just in the wrong place at the wrong time? By the way, if "drank to excess" was a factor, we would be minus more than a few.
There is a ward map showing each house where cancer has struck one, or more persons, and that map clearly follows the old creek. A "cancer cluster" defined, is a place where more than the normal amount of cancers occour in a given period of time. Such places that come to mind would be the Love Canal, Cherinoble, and the like.
Cancer can be caused by many things, and it comes in many forms, so I strongly feel we must get to the bottom of this, and quick! Would the 10:37AM gentle blogger be willing to bet the life of his / her children on whether things were safe or not? I doubt it! So let's get on board and find out what, if anything the problems are, and fix them if we have to.
I think we must make sure there is no problem here before anyone goes around saying that there is no cancer cluster here.
Tom Ford
Produce the map on this blog.
no one said there isn't a cancer cluster. All I am saying is that you can't take anecdotal evidence and turn it into a cancer cluster. There are other contributing factors. I am not going to get in an uproar until I see some logical, thoughtful evidence. (WHich is missing from many of the alleged conspiracies in this town by the way)
Sorry, I cann'ot re-produce the map on the blog, as I have no way to scan it in. I will make copies for you if you wish though.
Please understand, this is not ment to be sensationalism, this is serious! And as such I want all the information out where it can do the most good. We need an investigation, complete with bore samples from the pool area, my yard, Spellman park, and all along the creek to find out what were facing, or not.
If you are sure there is no problem, then why not get this out of the way, period. However if your not so sure, don't you still want to know?
Tom Ford
Well, get out your check book and pay for your own yard to be drilled. I would not be at all surprised to find the issue is not an industrial source but instead a natural gas called Rayon. I think I spelled it correctly, but it is a major cause of lung cancer in smokers and non smokers and can get into your home through the basement. This part of the country is known for the gas, and it has nothing to do with the Swim Club or gas tanks or TIF's. It come from the ground we live on and when you think that only 10% of lung cancers are as result of smoking you can see this might be something to look into.
You can buy a test kit I am sure on the internet, just do a Google search and you may find the kit for sale at Lowes or Home Depot.
Get out my check book for "rayon", well I do when I buy clothing, but in this case you must mean "raidon". Nope my friend, I will hold onto the funds until the swim club, and the industrial areas bordering Ward Two are cleared.
I only wish a "google search" would bring back the people who are dead from this problem!
Tom Ford
Tom, you miss the point the other bloger was trying to make. Before a major City wide search for the possible cause(s) of the "cancer clusters" takes place, wouldnt it make good sense to have your home checked for levels of raidon gas? Seems like the conservative way of doing things, by not waiting on government to do for you what you could do for yourself. At least at this level the raidon question could be delt with by the private home owner. What say you to this idea?
Go to WWW:testproducts.com/radon (that's the correct spelling for the cancer causing natural gas). This will take you to a page which has 7 products listed for the testing of radon gas in a home, the most expensive is $99.00.
Before we ask the EPA/Health Departments to tear into the creeks, back yards and the private property of the Swim Club in this part of Crestwood at great expense to the taxpayer, wouldn't it make sense to check for radon on your own first?
I can see your point about radon, and yes it is wise to test for it. In fact I believe I may eaven have a couple of test kits available, I will look on monday. Radon is present in the soil in a lot of places, and kits are available to test for it, so shall we all get a kit?
Yet, I wonder how over 20 homes along this creek have had the same problem, with different types of cancer.
What would the odd's be in Vegas that this is normal?
I still think we must have the City look into this phenomenon, as I do not believe radon has caused all of these cancers, and if it did, well, we still have a problem, don't we?
Tom Ford
Blogger at 12:40 pm 6/2 and 3:42 pm 6/2 - I was just agreeing with the blogger at 6/1 12:43 who was also speaking of the septic tanks and underground storage tanks. Go back and read it! He/she was giving some background information and so did I. Maybe you are getting yourself in an uproar regarding your own sewer overload. Read all the comments before you insert your foot in your mouth.
SEPTIC TANKS ARE ALLOWED IN CRESTWOOD!! There is a very big one at the end of the city hall parking lot paid for by Kohl's shoppers!
The City doesn't have the money to look into the health problems you are listing. It is up to the home owner to find out if they have a radon gas problem in their home. That would the first logical step to be taken. The results of the test would then direct the next step to be taken.
What are the two prime reasons for death in Crestwood? I would venture a guess they are cancer and heart disease or vice versa. In fact I bet that these are the two prime reasons for death nation wide. Are both prime killers caused by the same thing, IE; toxic waste? I doubt that. Check into the age demographics of Crestwood and you will note that as a population we are not gettng any younger, therefore we are all getting closer to meeting the man in the bright night gown. So if cancer/heart disease is the major cause of death, as we get older, the rates of these being the cause of death will go up.
Face it, no one gets out alive.
The City may not have the funds, but the State, EPA, and the Fed's do. I say let the EPA do bore samples (small hole drilled into the ground,) andlet's see what we find.
I can't understand why anyone would be against that, unless they know something we all should know, and thus are concerned about he outcome.
I seem to remember Mayor Pat Kilorn starting an investigation a few years ago that was never completed. Why not?
Tom Ford
Here is why, because there is a gigantic conspiracy afoot in Crestwood. That's why. There are lots of powerful, evil people who are controlling everything in this city. That's why. And it has been going on for 50 years. That's why we are so lucky to have someone like you , Tom, and all of your friends who really care about Crestwood uncovering all of the evil in this town. Thank you Tom Ford et al!
Your welcome! You know we will keep on it until the truth comes out.
Sorry if that bothers anyone out there, but that's the way it is. If there is nothing to uncover, well so much the better for Crestwood. If there is something there, we will clean it up, and move on.
Crestwood will be the winner either way.
I hope you address this at the next BOA meeting. Maybe call and ask before the meeting so staff can have an answer for you by the meeting date.
I got this on radon from a gentleman on the 2nd amendment blog, good information on radon gas!
Tom Ford
Date: Thursday, 8 June 2006, at 10:16 am
Just read your post below about radon in natural gas.
You would be surprised. Check out Laurel, Miss, where a local high school football stadium had to be destroyed due to radioactivity. The stands and railings were built from surplus 2 7/8 tubing from a pipe yard (oil field surplus).
I was manager of the La Rosita uranium mine in San Diego, TX during the 90's. I had the last radioactive materials disposal well permitted in the US (WDW 250). I needed to have the wellhead tubing hanger repaired, but I couldn't get the radiation level down enough to release it from my possession. I called the wellhead repair guys and told them my problem, and told them they had to work on it while it was in the back of my truck (my possession).
When I arrived, they pulled out a scintillator and quickly demonstrated that my wellhead was less radioactive than most of the oil field wellheads in for repair. I was very surprised. Since Corpus Christi had seven refineries running at that time, I asked several friends of mine who worked at the refineries if they had a problem with radioactive materials. I was told that the biggest problem was radon, which had the same boiling point as propane, thus the radon went out the back door with the propane. They said that residual radon also went out with the NG, since NG is nothing but methane with residual gases (which is why the BTU content is higher than pure NG).
Therefore I must respectfully disagree. ANY amount of radon is deadly, as are MOST of the daughter products of radioactive decay. Radon is particularly nasty to smokers, since radon is absorbed by the tar in the lungs and just cooks the tissues over time. That is exactly what happened to the Navajos that worked in Mobil's underground uranium mine in Grant, NM. It ripped the Navajos a new one, at least the ones that smoked.
I might also [point out that Freeport Chemical produces about 6MM tons of uranium a year as a byproduct. Their business? They make fertilizer, particular phosphate fertilizer. Yep, chemical fertilizers are radioactive. That is another problem with cigarettes, as the daughter products in the fertilizers used on the crops attaches itself to the tobacco. You smoke it, and guess what? I think the tobacco growers have taken measures to combat a good portion of the problem, but at one time is was a rather serious one (unknown to the general public).
On a humorous note, the local bank, a granite building (radioactive, as are radishes and other vegetables), was more radioactive than was my mine office. Your exposure was less at our mine site than it would be if you were a local bank teller, and we produced 3MM pounds of U3O8 a year!
Jim
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