BOA work session scheduled for Thursday, May 18, 2006 @ 6:00 PM
Mr Tom Ford:
A Board work session is scheduled for Thurs May 18 at 6 pm in the Board Chambers to discuss the issuance of bonds for the Kohl's project. The public is invited.
Folks this is an excellent way for you to observe the decision making process, and to meet the new Board if you haven't already. Will you please join your friends and neighbors at the meeting?
Tom Ford
No. 145
A Board work session is scheduled for Thurs May 18 at 6 pm in the Board Chambers to discuss the issuance of bonds for the Kohl's project. The public is invited.
Folks this is an excellent way for you to observe the decision making process, and to meet the new Board if you haven't already. Will you please join your friends and neighbors at the meeting?
Tom Ford
No. 145
posted by Crestwood Independent at 15:35
70 Comments:
I have checked Crestwood's web site and see no work session scheduled for the BOA. Are you sure? Or are you just guesing like the Executive Session post? Having a hard time separating fact from fiction.
Well, well, let's see, I could have used my psychic powers, but in this case one of my "cub reporters" heard it, advised me, I called and confirmed it with two city people, and now you know!
Isn't networking just grand? Now with any amount of luck you seperate whatever you want to.
By the way, coming to the meeting? I'll be the handsome one in the beard!
Tom Ford
To the 8:24 poster: "having a hard time separating fact from fiction" What else is left to say!
Kohl's was completed in 2003 and now THF wants the bonds!
Is the Crestwood Swim Club getting more money by Mayor Robinson?
Our Mayor has made a lot of promises that are coming to light!
Maybe now the Crestwood Swim Club members will have a parking spot with their name painted in "gold" so you will know where to park your new black BMW!
The time-lag on issuing bonds is not unusual for a redevelopment project. TIF Notes were issued. The financial community won't buy the actual bonds until there is a multi-year history of how the project is performing. This is especially the case with a project that has one store - Kohl's.
What promises did the Mayor make regarding the Swim Club?
Ask Tom Ford...he seems to know everything going on at City Hall.
Murphy's laws as it mat apply to anything, or for that matter anyone, past, present, or still to be!
This one's a cousin of Murphy's Law.
Law of Mechanical Repair:
After your hands become coated with grease, your nose will begin to itch,
or you'll have to pee.
Law of the Workshop:
Any tool, when dropped, will roll to the least accessible corner.
Law of Probability:
The probability of being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity
of your act.
Law of the Telephone:
If you dial a wrong number, you never get a busy signal.
Law of the Alibi:
If you tell the boss you were late for work because you had a flat tire,
the very next morning you will have a flat tire.
Variation Law:
If you change lines (or traffic lanes), the one you were in will start to
move faster than the one you are in now (works every time.)
Law of the Bath:
When the body is fully immersed in water, the telephone rings.
Law of Close Encounters:
The probability of meeting someone you know increases when you are with
someone you don't want to be seen with.
Law of the Result:
When you try to prove to someone that a machine won't work, it will.
Law of Bio mechanics:
The severity of the itch is inversely proportional to the reach.
Law of the Theater:
At any event, the people whose seats are furthest from the aisle arrive
last.
Law of Coffee:
As soon as you sit down to a cup of hot coffee, your boss will ask you to
do something which will last until the coffee is cold.
Murphy's Law of Lockers:
If there are only two people in a locker room, they will have adjacent
lockers.
Law of Rugs/Carpets:
The chances of an open-faced jelly sandwich landing face down on a floor
covering are directly correlated to the newness and cost of the carpet/rug.
Law of Location:
No matter where you go, there you are.
Law of Logical Argument:
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Brown's Law:
If the shoe fits, it's ugly.
Oliver's Law:
A closed mouth gathers no feet.
Wilson's Law:
As soon as you find a product that you really like, they will stop making
it.
Tom Ford
Tom, you forgot the last one - Murphy was an optimist!
Fooling around or delaying with the Kohl's project bonds is going to send another warning to the investors, the developers, the financial community and the business community not to do business with or in Crestwood. After the defeaseance of the City Hall renovation bonds, the City's credit trust worthiness in the financial community has suffered a major blow. Another blow just might kill hopes of any further business community renovation.
Do we hear you say you think we could have gone through with building a 14.6 police facility? Did you hear someone say they were going to try to STOP the bonds from being sold? Isn't the question whether or not we can legally sell these bonds? Have you not read the TIF, CID, & TDD connected with this? Are you so far behind that you think you're in first place? If you understand the problem, please stand up at the meeting and explain. If you don't understand it, you'd best get in with some people who do.
Why don't you give us your insight regarding if they would be legal to sell? What is the issue? Please tell. Some of us don't have the time to "dig up" all the information and obviously don't get details at the BOA meetings. (at least online)
Your post announcing this meeting is dated May 14. Why has nothing about this meeting been posted on the City website? Don't they want Crestwood residents to know about the meeting until a day or two before it?
To the 3:17 blogger, those (outside of Crestwood,) who have examined the bond sales have one simple question, that being the part of the TDD that was used to pay for a private swim club. As you may know a TDD is to be used for parking lots, and roads, not private property.
When this was set up the bond attorneys were under the impression that it was a city owned pool, it was eaven so listed on their web site as "the cities pool", the site has since been changed.
The Kohl's project is paying the $850.000.00 paid to the pool through a 3/8 cent sales tax on all purchases at Kohl's, and is earmarked for that purpose only.
The funds were fungible, and were moved around to accomodate everyone at that time, and thats great, however now we want to sell bond's to cover the project, and the conventional wisdom is that we may have to exclude the pool from the TDD to do so.
I guess we shall se on Thursday night.
March 6, 2006
http://www.auditor.mo.gov/press/2006-12.htm
March 18, 2006
http://www.digitalburg.com/artman/publish/article_1264.shtml
Our Board of Alderman need to exclude the Crestwood Swim Club from the TDD monies.
Also, our Board of Alderman need to pass an updated ordinance with the approval of the TIF Commission for the extra expenditures for the Kohl’s project.
Since the additional expenditures on Kohl's has not been approved by the TIF Commission and by the Board of Alderman, how can our current administration sell anything without legal approval.
Our Board of Alderman need to obey the laws of the land!
The TDD was never intended to "Buy the Swim Club". It was intended to buy the one half of the City Hall parking lot previously owned by the Swim Club and now owned by THF Reality. The TDD was then to turn it over to the City to be used as the public parking lot for City Hall as the City owned portion of the City Hall parking lot was needed for the ill-fated Police HQ. The Bond Attorney's were never under the impression that the City owned Crestwood Swim Club. The techno geek who does their website made that erroneous assumption.
IT is frightening to see the complete lack of business acumen and real estate savvy that exists in some circles of this town. Get your facts straight.
Yes, did you ever think that it was a simple error. Makes sense! It would be easy to assume that Crestwood Swim CLub was the city's pool. It has been in existence far longer than the actual Crestwood Aquatic Center. All the nuts in town immediately think it is some sort of COVER UP. Ha. The real cover up is how people are getting promoted and appointed over at CITY HALL.
The key issue is our Board of Alderman did not follow the process enacted by our State Legislators.
The law is to be obeyed by all not by the select few.
The amount of money approved by the TIF Commission and approved by the Board of Alderman is not the same as actually spent.
Read what happened in Sunset Hills.
The answer to question is to exclude all monies not approve by the ordinance that was recommended by the TIF Commission.
If the current administration wants to be trustworthy, now is the time to show their worthiness.
The actual amount of money that can be sold for the TDD and CID is only what was approved in the original ordinance.
Everything has be voted by the TIF Commmission in order for the Board of Alderman to approve of the additional expenditures.
Our Board of Alderman are not under oath during their meetings but they were sworn in to abide by the laws of our land.
Stay with the facts and the truth will be known.
Read the ordinances and the State Laws pertaining to the TIF's, TDD's, and CID's.
Which federal agency funds the TDD's and CID's? Does the U.S. Federal Transportation Department actually loan money to the State of Missouri for improvements to the state roads?
Can the Missouri Secretary of State Securities Exchange and the Federal Securities Exchange audit how all of this public monies were actually spent on the Kohl's project? Who is auditing all of these extra expenditures?
Can the State of Missouri Attorney General review the findings of how our current Board of Alderman are fully aware of the facts and are ignoring how to solve the problem with the Kohl's expenditures?
The answer is easy. Follow the ordinance that the previous Board of Alderman passed.
If these bonds get sold for $5.5 million versus $2.3 million, who will be responsible for this decision?
Is the city of Crestwood carrying a $1 million bond for each Board of Alderman?
"Simple error"?, by Armstrong Teasdale? Come on people, these are VERY professional people! They don't make "simple errors"!
the person updating their website probably makes minimum wage...or does not even work for the firm. Look how many errors and inaccuracies are on this website alone and everyone seems to be an expert here.
Who told Armstrong Teasdale it was the city's not-for-profit pool?
Who forgot to tell Armstrong Teasdale it was not the city's pool for ALL of the citizens to enjoy but is only for our public officials to swim in a "safe" pool?
Who filed all of the paperwork in Crestwood Swim Club versus Rosebrook Real Estate Company with the City of Crestwood and with St. Louis County?
Who is ashame to publicly state they are Crestwood Swim Members and Rosebrook Stockholders?
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The acumen or discimination especially in practical matters pertains to the misuse and abuse of public funding by increasing the TDD, CID, and TIF expenditures without public notice.
Public notice is obtained by our Board of Alderman voting on an ordinance so everyone can read and review these ordinances.
Our Founding Fathers created our U. S. Constitution and Bill of Rights for all to have in United States not for a select few.
If we the citizens of Crestwood allow these bonds to be sold for $5.5 million then we are not doing our civic duty of allowing our public officials to be honest and accountable with our public monies.
If the bonds are sold for $5.5 million for the Kohl's project, then this sets a precedence for our current and future Board of Alderman to not follow any ordinance passed in the City of Crestwood.
Our laws in Crestwood are only for the select few who not members of the Crestwood Swim Club and not stockholders of Rosebrook Real Estate Company and does not drive black BMW's.
Why are at war in Iraq? We are fighting to protect our democracy that is all citizens of USA and to not be a republic like Rome.
Once you allow a group of public officials to not follow the law, then what kind of government do you actually have in Crestwood.
MY GAWD PEOPLE GET OVER THE POOL THING ALREADY!!!!
You really are starting to make me worry about your mental health. If the TIF for Kohl's gives money wrongly to the CLUB, then there will be action in court to settle it there, not here on the BLOG!!!
If the Kohl's developer doesn't get the $ is feels is due then they will sue the CITY and we will have another lawsuit. All this bitching back and forth is like two neighbors fighting over the color of the fence
on their neighbors side of the fence. It will be settle in court, are you happy??
To answer the question poster at 9:13 asks in their final paragraph,
we will get the kind of government we already have in City Hall, that's the kind we will have.
How can THF which is Kohl's developer, suit the City of Crestwood if the Crestwood Board of Alderman issue bonds at the exact amount of money that is stated in the ordinance?
The Board of Alderman can be suit by the citizens of Crestwood for not following the ordinances and the laws of the land.
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This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Let's have more lawsuits. Brilliant idea. Let's use up all of the money in the city. Perfect.
Hay 9:19 how can THF "suit" the City?
If the suit fits, wear it.
It suits me just fine!!!
So this is what we have so far-please correct me if I'm wrong:
1. A private swim club, with a St. Louis County assessed value in the high $80,000s, was given $800,000 to relocate? on their own property?
2. Was this swim club represented or thought of as a city-owned pool during the time of this transaction?
3. What board members, former or current, are members of the club? Did any of them cast votes that affected this swim club?
4. The entire Kohl's project was based on a TIF subsidy. The TIF Commission approved one basic development, but by the time all was said and done, a completely different development was put forth and built. The proposal had changed in size, scope, and amount of subsidy. Shouldn't this changed proposal have gone back to the TIF Commission?
Those are the questions..does anyone have any answers?
Let me break it down for you sweetie, when property is being acquired for development, those who hold the key piece of property do not have to sell. They can hold on to it, or choose to sell it if someone is willing to pay the right price. If someone wanted your all brick, Crestwood Ranch home, would you tell them to pay you the assessed value or the amount it would take you to purchase or rebuild a home of like value? Or would you prefer that someone used eminent domain to obtain your home. Or you could simply choose not to sell it and then no development would take place. Keep up the barking and growling, and not company's will want to do business with Crestwood because of all of the crackpot citizens who have nothing better to do with their time. Unsophisticated crackpots who thinkg they know more about law, property acquisition, development tools and high finance than the experts do. Are you going to rewind the deal? Do you want more lawsuits on your hands?
Perhaps 9:19 means to 'sue' the city as a legal word? These really big words are difficult to comprehend aren't they? I do believe aldermen can be sued for wrongdoing of the past. the law if 'ignorance is no excuse of the law', that's why we need aldermen who get there to work for the city and not to have a social event.
Re=wind the deal! Now theres a thought. More correctly put, we may have to go back and incorporate a few steps our aldermen 'missed' to keep it legal. Unsophisticated crackpots!is this the new description for citizens who are reading our city's history and conferring with financial know-hows, and legal experts. Carefull, sweetie, your assuming your know what's truly going on and we all know about ass-u-meing!
Not all information needed to make fair and informed decisions on anything pertaining to the Kohl's TIF issue is going to be found on this blog site. Any possibility of honest debate and factual input is too often overpowered by the same old bullying tactics and moronic defensive yawn-jabber that has done nothing but weaken all threads of concialtory hope for our city. The heart of this city has been sold to highest bidder. The politically divided board, having gone into overdrive in the last 2 administrations and their herd master, a former city administrator, is increasingly incapable of stepping beyond their politics to serve the city. You have seen the lawsuits, the settlements, the legal bills in the last few years. You have seen the divisive behavior at BOA Meetings. You have seen the kind of blogs these people insert; the legal loopholes and predicaments they have fostered. You tell me are you impressed? No wonder the view in the rearview mirror is so dark. No wonder the wires in this city are crossed. The steam needed to press forward has been used to suppress the possibility of teamwork necessary to fairly represent the residents of Crestwood. Did you notice the last 2 tied board votes? Stay tuned!
For the record, many residents were against the TIF for Kohls. Granted TIF's cause lots of consternation but can be effective tools for development. That is, when used with discretion and postured by people with wisdom and a sense of propriety. The Crestwood Swim Club involved in this TIF defied all attempts at propriety and commmon sense about it, what other entity with any logic would relocate and further wedge a private swimming club right on dwarfed sized property on the skirts of residential homes sharing a very minimal sized parking lot with a public city hall and with a Planning and Zoning and Aldermanic Board stacked with members of this swim club? May want to check out the city attorney, as well. How transparent is this? Tell me, is Mieneke Muffler Shop going to make out like this when asked to relocate? Explain how this well leveraged swim club package could happen under normal circumstances?
Now the light of day is hovering on this private mecca; and the Crestwood Swim Club and Rosebrook Realty are, as expected, coming on strong on this blog site. I even noticed some scare tactics such as "do you want more lawsuits for gosh sakes?" Well, maybe so, Pandora's Box is already wide open. At the very least I want further investigations of all city officials who participated in any vote or decision related to relocating the swim club under the terms of the TIF, who was a member of the Crestwood Swim Club/Rosebrook Realty at the time of the Kohl's TIF venture into Crestwood. And I want defense litigation financed by personal, not city, insurance. Right now, I learned,there are 5 board members who have Crestwood Swim Club affiliation and cause for recusal. This leaves 3 Aldermen with the task of all determination on any issue regarding the Crestwood Swim Club, which has perked the interest of the State Attorney General, Elliott Davis and yes siree bob, lots and lots of Crestwood residents who think Whitecliff Pool will suffice for a town of 13,000 people. Maybe they should hold off on that dumpster and consider closing the pool. The attitude of its members and the stench it is causing and the shadows surrounding its existance is not condusive to the regeneration of our community.
Explain why the board members would have to recuse themselves? Are they benefitting financially. Do tell.
Do the words stock, real estate, tax or lack thereof, realized profit, etc. ring any bells? Did you think people in this town fell off a watermelon truck?
Bingo--you just showed how clueless you really are. Next issue?
Well, lets see... the old location of the Crestwood Swim Club is now a PARKING LOT! Hmmmm - I guess that would qualify. Silly people
Well, let's see, the old swim club is worth $88,000.00 ground and all, right?
It gets "blighted" by the city. The swim club write off over $100,000.00 on the "blighted" property, right?
In the nick of time, the good guys ride in to grant $850,000.00 to the owners of the "blighted" property for the property purchase, right?
The swim club moves about 100 yards away to their other property, dig's a hole, and put's up a new facility, right?
Well, if your stock was worth $100.00 per share for a "blighted" hole in the ground, and you now have a brand new pool, tell me if your stock value just went up? Answer, yes! And that's why all the members, stock holders, relitives of stock holders, or anyone else on the board who stands to profit form this must RECUSE themselves!
If you doubt me, look up the Missouri State Ethics Commission, and read it for yourself!
Bingo!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
you are such a financial genius
Has anyone contacted a member of the Crestwood Swim Club to ask about the stock issuance and the value? I doubt it. Just spreading "junk talk" again. Like I have said before - can't separate fact from fiction. See why!
What was the outcome of the work session tonight? Was the Swim Club show to be in violation of state law? Will the City be better off by not going along with their Bond deal?
Please report what happened on this blog before ther newspapers distort what really happened.
thanks for your fine work!
Did that club finally get what was coming? Were the big secrets revealed? Did the club trick the law firm and the investment firm and the developer and the state of Missouri and the county government. Was their trickery revealed for the whole world to see!????? TELL ALL!!!!!! I am SO EXCITED TO HEAR ALL THE DETAILS!!!! TELL MEEEEEEEE--I AM SO TURNED ON BY THIS!!!!!!YES! YES! YES! TELL ME!!!!!!
Good grief! Relax, and I shall tell you.
NO, nothing happened like that at all! In fact Alderman Kelleher asked the question of the lawyer involved if there was anything about this deal not up to par, and he said no.
Please remember though that no specific questions were asked, and after all this was a "work session". The really interesting things will not come to the fore until the next BOA meeting when they discuss the actual bond sales.
Until then, relax, have a cocktail (or whatever,) and get set for "round one"
Tom Ford
What did Roy say?
"Round one" - are you implying that at the meeting the BOA were mislead with the information received? Mr. Ford, based on your comment on the other post, you know nothing about this subject yet you continue to act like there is a major problem that will come to light. I guess the experts in this field don't impress you. Why don't you enlighten the readers with your knowledge that apparently the experts don't know.
How many "rounds" will it take before Jerry can talk this swim club boondoggle to death?
I do expect that a major problem will come to light, and gusee what, I do know what I am talking about, so let's sit back and watch.
Tom Ford
So you are publicly stating that you know of a major problem and are choosing not to inform your alderman, the mayor or the city administrator. Why are you not speaking up. Or do you and your posse of binder totin' buddies have a misguided sense of power by keepin' your cards close to your vest. If there is a problem that is going to come to light--tell us, we are hanging on your every word.
I think someone should report Tom Ford to city hall for boasting about inside information.
If you would just read my posts, you too would be informed! And, yes, good idea, report me! I am sure they are interested in a citizen who knows what's going on.
And while your at it please explain why you still wish to live in the past, or why you choose to not understand the problems Crestwood faces!
The day's of Crestwood being ruled by your group are over, get used to it!
Tom Ford
It sounds like someone is afraid of what's in the binder. Why else would you act so parnoid about it?
By the way, experts have a financial motive in their job, just like you and I.
:)
I do not fear the DeCAthi code binders. :)
Local citizens have learned only recently what the boa and staff have known for YEARS. Miles and miles of paperwork containing facts and figures all of what has transpired at meetings. Only the dis-interested would not know these facts. They are there and always have been there. We may have lost some things through paper shredding done last year but once papers are gone they are gone. There is enough information to go around. For those of you who keep asking how Ford knows so much, he has read what we all can read, he has just taken the time and effort to do it. Instead of keeping at him for knowing a secret, take some time and read your city's past, it's public knowledge. If you don't know the facts, it's because you choose not to make the effort. No secrets, just make the effort. Later down the line, saying you had no idea will simply tell everyone you didn't care enough to make the effort.
To the 7:45 Am blogger, what if in your haste to gain knowledge you dropped the big book on your foot?
I would be afraid, as there is no "workmans comp." here!
:>(
"The DeCAthi Code" is flop at Box Office as viewers realize that it is all fiction and not worth their time and eye strain to read the Six Inch Thick Ring Binder. Great story if it were true, but since it's not, it is instead, a poor representation of reality.
Good for the lining of bird cages and wrapping of fresh fish and not much else.
I wouldent say the DeVince code is a flop, it's number one word wide, and has taken in a heck of a lot in the U.S. (read Drudge).
Reality abounds in the binders to those who have taken the time to read them. To the rest, well I guess you really don't want to know, now do you? Why take the chance that you could be wrong.
Before you summarely dismiss these binders, I would take a close look at what they contain! No blasphemy, no hatred tward any club, or group, not eaven name calling! Just plain facts as to how this entire project got from A to Z.
Go to City hall, ask Mr. Myers to let you look at them, and then come back here and tell us what you think.
10:40am So you are telling your friends that a compulation of your city's board of aldermen's minutes plus all the ordinances they have passed in order to get things to where they are is now a story. Are you friends believing anything you tell them. Of course you have read all the records and you know of what you speak, correct? I think you're afraid to read the facts compiled in these binders, could it be because you were one of the original people making up the ordinances that went into the making of it? I can't imagine your being to fool many of your friends much longer.
Poster 10:36p.m.
What is your native tongue?
The same one I was born with.
10:12 PM 5/18 and 4:37 PM 5/19 Anyone know what happened at "round one" or what was revealed at last night's BOA meeting? What major problem with the bond sales was brought to the fore??? Were the bond sales even discussed???
The bond sales were discussed at the meeting, and I doubt if many there understood it, Talk about complicated! (I have read it three times, and I still don't completly get it.) We shall se where it goes from here.
And, no I was not at the meeting, this is from my field "cub reporters".
Tom Ford
Head CUB REPORTER!
Mr. Ford, I am not sure I understand your last comment. Several time you have stated you have information that would "shed light" on the proposed sale of the bonds. Since you claim to know about problems with the sale of the bonds, I assumed you understood the process. I guess I was wrong.
I do have the information on the bond sales, but no-one want's to read it!
I have offered four times with no takers, ER GO, no, I do not understand. Maybe Mr. Trueblood can help you out.
Tom Ford
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