The Suncrest Call, what an editorial!
Normally I would provide a link to the Call from this site, but I have been asked to refrain from that so the "Call" can retain it's "objectivity". I was thinking of that yesterday (the "objectivity",) while reading the editorial written by Mr. Burke Wasson.
I met, and had a chat with Mr. Wasson at a City meeting not long ago. At that time I was chastised for "speaking to the enemy" by some folk's in attendance, however I assured them he was different from what we were used to. I even went so far as to stand up for him on this blog, as I felt he could be counted on to be objective toward Crestwood.
Fast forward to the editorial in the Wednesday Call if you would. This I find interesting as it slams five citizens of Crestwood without mentioning the real architects of this so called plan to remove the Charter vote from the ballot. It also goes on to say that the good citizens of Crestwood should not sign any petition as it will remove their right to vote.
Well Mr. Wasson, move to Crestwood, buy a home, raise a family, in other words, pay your dues, and then we will listen to you. Until then, thank you very much for your comments, and I an sorry to see you "drank the coolaid".
Tom Ford
No.157
I met, and had a chat with Mr. Wasson at a City meeting not long ago. At that time I was chastised for "speaking to the enemy" by some folk's in attendance, however I assured them he was different from what we were used to. I even went so far as to stand up for him on this blog, as I felt he could be counted on to be objective toward Crestwood.
Fast forward to the editorial in the Wednesday Call if you would. This I find interesting as it slams five citizens of Crestwood without mentioning the real architects of this so called plan to remove the Charter vote from the ballot. It also goes on to say that the good citizens of Crestwood should not sign any petition as it will remove their right to vote.
Well Mr. Wasson, move to Crestwood, buy a home, raise a family, in other words, pay your dues, and then we will listen to you. Until then, thank you very much for your comments, and I an sorry to see you "drank the coolaid".
Tom Ford
No.157
posted by Crestwood Independent at 18:06
68 Comments:
Tom,
Who were/are the "real architects of the so called plan" you note in your post? I am not clear who else was involved except Mr. Murphy who was named by Mr. Beck, do you know who else was behind the five named? Was it Greer or Fagan or who ever?
I loved the editorial! I am offended if this is actually true that they are trying to subvert the will of the people.
It is a shame that you continue to discredit journalist. I guess they all drank the cool aid. What is wrong with listing the names? It is public record. I find it disturbing that a handful of citizens can stop these issues of the city, since they did not even attempt to justify their petition by collecting signatures. I assume the manner in which this obvious deliberate obstruction was carried out meets your approval. I guess our views on this situation are different. Imagine that! Seems to happen.
Perhaps someone should address the facts. Like the fact the objection was that the Charter Commission met prematurely as defined by the Charter, allowing the outgoing Mayor to appoint the entire board who then complied with his and his crony's objectives. Contrary to your belief, sir, a more politically diversified board would have objected to this and would have wanted to be more independent. To be saddled with the doctrine of the outgoing administration without benefit of collaboration with the new administration, and doing it prior to the official starting time is sorta like the stunt pulled by this same outgoing Mayor. The one who made sure to squeeze in as his last bit of business the signing of the lease for Westfield Plaza office space so the city offices could move while the $14.5 Million Dollar pipe dream was going up. Somehow I missed the editorial in the CALL which covered this debauchle.
The Charter definitely needs to be cleaned up and brought up to date. No question. But all the last minute flurry of activity before the curtain came down is quite curious.
To accuse people of trying to deny a vote on the Charter is so old-hat and typical of your kind. No doubt you are one of those who thought Mayor Robinson had no rights as Mayor to appoint board members, but had no problem with a previous Mayor's doing it. An attempt to rule on this Charter language confusion as regards how and when the Charter Commission can meet was cannily manuevered. Residents spoke at BOA meetings in an effort to clarify the Charter intent. But then as now, politics continued to rear its ugly head.
The folks you so like to accuse of cheating the vote had every right to want a literal translation of the rules and delay putting it on the ballot until it was obtained. There was and is no critical urgency. Getting it right is the thing.
Tom, I LOVED what Mr. Wasson had to say. This editorial was even better than his last. These snakes didnt even BOTHER to grab a signature. It was a sham, and you KNOW it was a sham.
Glad we have a writer like Mr. Wasson who:
1. Isn't afraid to say what he believes
and
2. Isn't afraid who he might offend
If that doesnt beat all, he puts his NAME and PHOTO right next to it, too, which is more than what most of us anonamous posters do. You've got to admit Tom . . . .The kid's got guts. And bashing on him is doing him the service of making him even more well known.
Then again . . . . .he's doing a darn fine job of that by himself.
Bravo, Burke! Keep fighting the good fight! I for one hope he DOES move to Crestwood. Then he'll REALLY be dangerous.
Poster 10;51, your argument was wrong when you first made it and it is still wrong today.
You need to get over it, just like you tell those who didn't vote for the Mayor to get over it since he was elected.
Bravo Mr. Wasson, bravo!
We're all waiting with baited breath for you to reveal you insiders knowledge of the REAL ARCHITECTS of denying all of Crestwood's citizens the right to vote. Who cares whether someone thinks the committee was appointed by someone they don't like? The American thing to do is vote NO if you feel that way - not deny the rest of us our constitutional right! Don't worry about the 5 infamous people that took out the petition being named - at least one of them - Bob Deutschman seems to be pretty proud of himself. They knew their names would be public record when they did it. Once again, your hypocrisy is showing - you people love to dig up old public records and smear them all over the place but you can't take it yourselves!
Read Mr. Wasson's front page article in this week's Call and you'll see that Beck told him Jim Murphy was involved. The story also said Mr. Murphy denies this. Hmmmmmm. There's your "real architect." Even if, these 5 are pretty stupid to put their names out there too and should be called out like Mr. Wasson has done. How can you defend them? Really? I like 10:09 think if you don't like the people on the comittee, don't deny the rest of us our right to vote. If you don't like it, just vote no. WHO CAN ARGUE WITH THAT?
Dont forget that this evil group of people, who gave freely of their personal time for a year,and where picked by Fagan under the influence of the evil Don Greer and were all RE-APPOINTED BY MAYOR ROY,except for a member who never attended any meetings. So what is the issue here about political appointments by Fagan, the Mayor seemed to like them ok? Saddled with the outgoing Mayors doctrine? The Mayor didnt seem to think so?
Where do you find in the Charter that there was anything premature about the Commission meeting? It says not less than 10 years and 9 years are still less than 10, so what is your problem?
Mr. Ford, your criticism of Burke Wasson displays your support for the gang of five who have a problem: they cannot deny nor defend the facts nor can they rewrite history when a vigilant newspaper editorial writer is on the job. Mr. Wasson took to task the three CCFR members and their two willing accomplices for doing what decent Crestwood citizens know was wrong. The gang of five are probably proud that they abused the right to vote by Crestwood citizens on issues affecting them by a cheap political act. They may have had the legal right to do what they did but this resident believes that it was nefarious. With this group it probably will be repeated if Mr. Murphy has any further say in the matter. Mr. Wasson is to be commended for
cogently opining on this blatantly political blocking of Crestwood citizens exercising their right to vote.
As far as I know there was but one real architect of this idea, and you and I both know who it is.
If you don't know, think about it, who would benefit from this the most?
The five people involved in the petitions are not a bunch of political hacks, or supporters of anything but Crestwood as I see it. Please re-read their names in the Call, I think you will understand that these five are outstanding citizens!
There was no nefarious plot that I know of to remove the vote of the people, as has been suggested at all. So why do they suffer ridicule in the editorial by Mr. Wasson? My point is that Mr. Wasson should interview each of them for their motives prior to placing them as the scapegoat.
To those that dis-agree with me, I think that's great. This blog was, and is designed to create a forum for ideas, a place where you can be heard, and a place where we can agree to dis-agree on any subject.
When I placed that on the blog I knew several people would come back at me, and that's what I want! I want ALL of our opinions to come to the surface, because I stongly feel that by doing that we can all learn from each other.
My comments in Mr. Wasson's very paper have shown me to be for a vote on the charter, but I am also very much in favor of getting it right the first time. Could it be that the people who took out the papers did not think it was correct? I don't know, but hey, let's ask them.
Tom Ford
To some of the previous bloggers, there are legal questions whether this Charter Commission is legitimate. It was established and appointed suddenly by Fagan without prior notice, so the people's right to know went out the window. But the Call doesn't seem to care about that, which is kind of unusual since they've made a big hoopla of the Sunshine Law and nominated Robertson for an award.
Our city attorney said it was OK, but lawyers can be wrong.
So this November, it looks like we will be voting on something provided by a committee whose legitimacy is questionable.
I feel confident that these proposals will go before the voters in November. I've heard of no opposition this time. I hope that each ballot-proposal is explained clearly. Thank you
All of those screaming about obstruction, would you be doing the same thing if Robinson had filled this Charter Commission with his supporters? Or did it without notice? Or if its timing was questionable? Think about it.
The FIVE were and still are wrong in what they did. They should have their names in the paper. They should suffer all the ridicule that can be put on them for their stopping our right to vote on our government. Who the heck do they think they were and still are?
Pure politics that is all this was, and you know it! That junk about the Commission "may" not have been legal, is nothing but an offering to the people who are being used by the leader of the CCFR. Just ask Mr. Beck who put him up to it! He gave you the name of the guy who always leads from the rear and left these five to swing in the wind. If you want the ridicule to stop, then have the man Mr. Beck named as behind this come forth and admit he was behind this and was wrong! It would heal a lot of hurt if he were to do so.
Re-read the article, Wasson has tryed to interviewed the FIVE. They all have a had a chance to defend themselves. And just like lawyers can be wrong they also can be right and on this one they were.
I don't think so.
What's all the fuss? You will have your chance in November.
Mr. Ford, you can't say that Mr. Wasson didn't try to talk to the 5. How else would he have reported that Mr. Beck said Mr. Murphy was involved? Wasson also reported that Mr. Anderson and Beck told him they didn't try to get a single petition signed. Move on to your next argument, Mr. Ford. Because that one is losing steam fast.
It was never steam driven in the first place. It was driven by the need to make sure the truth about these five citizens get's out!
You have every right to dis-agree, and I accept that, but since this is my blog, I have the same right, and I used it!
Tom Ford
These five Citizens by their actions prevented the rest of the citizens of Crestwood from voting in a timely manner on their government. The most one can say in their defense is they were duped into what they did by an old politcal hack. If one is not willing to take that position, then they stand guilt as accused. Mr. Beck should resign his Chair of the Fire Board, or the Mayor should ask for his resignation in order to replace him with a more thoughtful Citizen.
Previous blogger - Nonsense!
Answer to 9:48 6-1 What are you referring to as the issues of the city? On Fagan's last day he passed the building of 14.6 M city police station, and he alone named the members of the Charter Committee (NEVER HAVING BOTHERED TO PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA) You couldn't know so little about how the city's government is run to not know this cannot be done. You can continue to convince others this committee was set up legally but you will only be able to convince those who 1. NEVER ATTEND BOA MEETING and 2. KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW THE CHARTER WAS SET UP AND HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ADMINISTERED. sO cONGRATULATIONS, THIS MUST MAKE YOU KING OF THE FOOLS!
Looks like 5 more residents have been added to the dartboard. Pretty soon there won't be any residents willing to "stand up for Crestwood."
Seems there is plenty of blame to go around. According to the CALL, this blog and the tenor at Aldermen Meetings, this city seems to have a noticeable abundance of people with vendettas bent on sucking the civic lifeblood out of any opinion that differs from theirs. This blog and the city itself is a virtual ink blot test. A Tit for Tat, Ping Pong tournament played by people driving the city To and Fro to suicide. A major Tug-Of-War. Isn't that Special? We have grown accustomed to all the players, and of course all their tactics. We see no desire to bury the hatchet so the city can breath. If their candidate does not win, they go to work on the winner and his/her supporters and everything they stand for. The sore and sour losers coach from the sidelines. Progress slows and often stops so they can stretch their muscles and show us just how truly "small" they are.
This is all very impressive if you are a snake. However, if you live in a small small burb, burdened with debt, sinking retail, ex-mayors of dubious reputation, ex-employees ridden out on a rail, and Aldermen on board armed with the credo "do or die," things can get grim.
"After all is said and done, more is said than done," and while we are trying to get that candle out from under the bushel, lessons we should have learned from mistakes are forgotten so grown men and women can chose sides and have a coin toss sponsored by the fair and balanced CALL. Dont'cha just love it. A virtual Peyton Place, Proud to be Here blurred spot on the map.
Keep your eyes and ears open, it is not at all that hard to differentiate between the leaders and the followers, the givers and the takers. This is why we voted on TERM LIMITS. It gives us the citizen power to control our destiny. Never before has this been so necessary.
So while you are using terms like: dupe, obstruction, sham, hypocrisy, evil, abuse, nefarious, and blatent, you may want to do some review, some research on how far and wide these definitions can be applied.
There are so many good things about this city, so many inspired people, so many suburban attributes and some great employees. But the city is tripping over itself. Ya know ... we could ditch the dartboard and the trivial pursuits, and all come out winners!
There may be many good things about this City, but the CCFR and it's leader are not one of them. See how the leader has left five normal good people into the public eye while he denies anything to do with their actions on his behalf and hides in the background counting on this blog's owner to delete any comment where his name is used?
That is why the CALL is important and why the CCFR is against it.
The CALL's reputation has been spotty in the past what with Mike Anthony and all. But this new kid Burke Wasson seems to be on the right track and is converting me into a CALL supporter. Want to see how important the CALL is? Just look at this blog! If it werent, would we all be in such a huff?
Blogger at 1:15 June 6th.
The charter says NOT less than 10 years; it doesn't say LESS THAN 10 YEARS. 9 YEARS IS LESS THAN TEN - BUT WHEN YOU PUT THE WORD "NOT" IN FRONT OF "LESS" IT MEANS ANYTHING LESS THAN 10 IS WRONG.
Sorry Martha, the law says your wrong on this one.
4:18 PM, June 3rd. NO, I am not wrong but it makes no difference anyway because the city attorney's interpretation is what was done. And don't be so smug and call me Martha, Sherlock! You may think you are being real "cute" but I stated my opinion and called it the way I see it. If you don't agree, just say so without being such a smart mouth.
You are still wrong, no matter who you are.
Maybe the issue the Charter should clarify is the time during which they should be convened. Afterall we are the citizens of Crestwood and we should be clear on the intent of our Charter or make any unclear issues clear. How about this. "The Mayor will appoint nine members of the community to serve on the Charter Commission. The commission will convene every 10 years following the anniversary of the first city charter."
I am always amazed at how twisted and confusing attorneys can make an issue just so they are needed to interpret it.
Agreed! Make it clear as can be!
I agree with the blogger at 10:51. The outgoing Mayor Tom Fagan made sure he appointed the members of the Charter Commission before he left office, so he could do what others say Roy Robinson does, picked all of his people to serve on that board. And a more diversified Board of Aldermen would have questioned it. It was all strategically done as well as signing off so the employees could move over to Westfield while a 14 mil. dollar police station could be built.
And you can bet that Tom Fagan will return to run again because lawyers base everything on what they do in the courtroom. They have to win. Heck we may even get Mr. Greer to come back to Crestwood if Tom Fagan has his way.
Fagan will return, you betcha with his smooth talking courtroom personna which is so convincing. But it won't be for the betterment of Crestwood, it will be for self gratification like he won another case.
As far as the Suncrest Call and Mr. Wasson, nothing new there. We get the same slanted views as we did with Mike Anthony.
The only people who would read it would be people who love to hate this administration. It is so one-sided the only ones who would defend it are those who play politics. Suffice to say, you will never get the Suncrest Call to agree with this mayor. But Mr. Anthony never had a problem glorifying Jim Robertson or Bernie Alexander or Don Greer. I stopped it from coming to my home. The last issue I got, I rolled up and use it to swat flies from coming into my home.
Poster 8:58, since you dont read the Call paper can you tell us what Mr. Wasson reported that was incorrect?
To the Blogger at 12:51 PM June 5th - The Call Incorrect? NO - One-sided? ALWAYS. That's not professional journalism. Mr. Wasson is just doing what he is told to do by Mike Anthony.
You don't just give your opinions and try to shove your views down readers throats. You present all the facts - both sides. For example:
When Mr. Anthony stated in his newspaper that The Call was backing Bernie Alexander for the aldermanic election in his Call Newspaper, that showed that he was biased. It's a good way to turn people off, that's my point. I think it is wrong for a man in Mr. Anthony's position to do that unless he wants to make enemies. Why didn't he present both candidates, give information about both of them and let the readers make up their mind? Why? Because his paper didn't get off the ground until Jim Robertson was mayor and it was now pay back time. A real paper doesn't endorse one candidate over another unless they want to create ill will.
Since you probably have all the issues of the Call, go back and read them from the beginning and see if there was anything positive that was said about this Mayor and his administration to date. Why? Because Mr. Anthony already sealed his fate with the previous administration. That would not set very well with the likes of Robertson or Mr. Fagan and the so-called Faganites. Mr. Anthony would have to give this administration equal time. That would definitely upset the apple cart.
It's all about paybacks and favors. Jim Robertson backed Bernie Alexander and, therefore, Mr. Anthony had to sanction her in the election. Sure the Call has advertisers. But that still doesn't make it a fair newspaper.
My neighbors all laugh about The Call. This is nothing new to anyone except maybe you and those that only want to see one viewpoint. Mike Anthony and the Call have always thrived on the "coat tails" of those who choose him and those that choose him only want their side to be heard.
If you would read many comments on this blog, you will see for yourself that others feel the same way I do.
Whether an editor favors one side over the other, they should print all of it and let their readers make up their own minds.
Thank you.
You really dont understand the difference between reporting and an editoral page do you?
Reporting is he said she said with quotes and supporting information. It is what happened, not what some one thinks happened, it must be right.
Editoral is what the writer believes, his belief could be wrong,it could be right, you could agree or disagree with it.
A paper may or may not chose to back someone running for office, based on that persons reply to the paper's questions. It is like an editoral, the paper is giving its view on who is best to service in office. They could be right they could be wrong. It doesnt make the paper biased in its reporting, just it's editoral.
This is basic 101 American freedom of the press, I'm surprised you don't understand this.
the Suncrest call is to Crestwood what the new York Times is to a conservitive!
Neither paper will ever agree on what their percieved opposition does or say's, so why bother reading them? Simple, you need to know what the loyal opposition is doing.
By now all of Crestwood that want's to admit it knows that the call has their agenda (as does the NYT,)and they will never change.
I have named this blog the Crestwood Independent, not because I am independent, but because I will allow all views (unless their really nasty,)from all sides of the political spectrum.
The Call has, what I would say is a one sided view, theirs! If you would like to disagree with them, go ahead, but good luck making the next edition.
I have said in the past that Mr. Burke Wasson was more than fair with me, and that is true, however, the latest editorial smacks of his leader getting in the way, and not Burke!
The Call has a very good advertising base as well they should, and they will not be going anywhere soon, so to those who would cancell their subscription, please don't do it!
We need to keep this paper around, and we need to read it's letters, editorial's, and, yes it's opinion's. I Think of it as keeping at least one liberal around so I never forget why I am conservitive.
Read the call, and if you dis-agree, well post your remarks here, I know they read them, they told me so.
Tom Ford
Blogger at 6:57 PM. June 5th - I do understand what an editorial is. But it seems to me that Mr. Anthony editorializes everything he writes, almost always.
His articles don't have to be editorials to make sure he only gives one side of an issue. That my friend, is not an editorial, it is a slant on reporting. Oh yes, I understand more than you will ever know. If you can't read in between the lines of almost everything that he says about Crestwood, and cannot make a determination that he is slanted and one-sided and doesn't report both sides, that YOU don't understand what bad reporting is. And maybe it's because he favors your side. Why don't we see this happen with our other small newspapers to the extent that we see it in the Call! It's called being biased and unprofessionalism and not giving the reader a chance to make up his own mind.
The Call has a history of this. Plus when Mr. Anthony editorializes one candidate over another, who really cares what his views are especially when everything else in it is so slanted. You think he gives his views about a specific candidate because he is such an expert? No he does it because those who support him tell him to do it! Get Real. Mr. Anthony will do whatever it takes to make his supporters happy. It has nothing to do with having integrity or what he feels is right and fair. He plays ball!!!
Where do you think that he got all of his past information about Crestwood? From the man who knew Mike Anthony would print everything his way. Don Greer. Would Don Greer want any other opinion but his in the news? No, cause then he couldn't CONTROL!!!!! Why was Don Greer the only person allowed to speak to the media? CONTROL!!!! It had to be Don Greer's way on everything in this town. He had The Call newspaper right where he had everybody else. His way - right or wrong, moral or immoral. It didn't matter. Once you get control, you get power and then you get what you want!
The Call Newspaper will never give this administration any good comments. And it's just going to always be that way just like there will always be negativism about this administration written by any reporter from The Call. And this is just the beginning. You can bet that Mr. Anthony has found somebody new to take Don Greer's place to negate anything good that comes out of this mayor's administration. But Oh just wait until we have another election. Just wait until we have issues on the ballot! Mr. Anthony and crew will just be another way to get the people to vote the way his supporters tell him they want the citizens to vote. Mike Anthony is as biased as they come and he is making good money at it. This is my opinion and the way I see things. You can feel as you please, and I will respect your opinion and I hope you respect mine. Thank you.
Mike Anthony doesn't write about Crestwood anymore. Burke Wasson does. And I've yet to see him be biased in his news stories. His columns though have some pretty strong opinions in them. If he can keep his opinions on the opinion page and doesn't go the way of Mr. Anthony, I don't see what the problem with him is. Keep it up Burke.
Please do not forget to give credit to Mr. Tim Trueblood who had Mr. Anthony on his primary E-mail list. I am sure Mr. Anthony got a lot of his information from him.
Who does Mr. Wasson work for, himself, or the Call?
Who runs the Call, Mr. Wasson, or Mr. Anthony?
Who is going to listen to whom?
Get this one right and a duck will come down and give you a hundred dollars!
"That's another 10 GRAND DOWN THE DRAIN!!!"
Seems certain cry babies want to cry foul when criticizing their political targets for investing money in a business trip that could improve the future INCOME of Crestwood, then cry when we don't want to spend 10 GEEZ on their ridiculous term limits being repealed!
You learned how to piss away money from the Master!
You are GREEDY, GREEDY, and SELFISH!
Blogger at 3:28 PM June 6th. Mr. Burke Wasson works for Mike Anthony. How silly to think that he has a choice as to how fair he can be, even if he wants too. Just wait and see for yourself. Like I said, you have your opinion and I have mine. I say if I turn out to be wrong, I will be the first to say Horray, At Last We Have An Honorable Man! Believe me, it would be cool water at the end of a long, very long hard drought.
It is unfortunate that in Mr. Wasson's editorial, and in all of the ensuing dialogue on this blog, a salient fact has been all but ignored.
The five petitioners were guilty of nothing more than exercising a right provided for in the city's charter. As a result of their petition, the charter amendment ordinances were suspended, not repealed. Not a single voter was ever in any danger of having his right to vote taken away by the petitioner's actions.
Martha Duchild
It's seems to me that the petitioners were trying to save the city the previously mentioned $10,000 dollars. I thank them for that.
Did each of us pay a portion of our taxes to prove that we have a right to vote?
I knew I had that right already. I sure would have like to save that $10 thousand dollars!
And we could have voted on these issues later. Like when we weren't borrowing that money from the bank!
Great Spin work blogers 10:32 and 10:48.
Is that "Spin work" recognized by a Master at it?
I don't believe that either of these opinions was spin work.
I know that my neighbors and I believe that this so called work that was done on the charter at an additional cost of $10 thousand dollars was unnecessary and way too expensive.
Once again, the political games by the power hungry factions have cost us much needed money.
Why is it that Mr Wasson so dearly wants us to exercise our right to vote? Is it because he does not live in Crestwood and couldn't care less whether we're broke?
Maybe the voices whispering in his ear have convinced him that some things, like term limits, are so important because certain whisperers NEED that office. Maybe because the group of people that raised a ruckus about spending money aren't quite as savvy and don't call him as often as the nicely dressed and snide former rulers of the bank account.
If you think criticizing money wasting projects is spin, then come to my neighborhood. We all think that the "spin" on needing term limits removed is quite a laughable and expensively selfish proposition.
And yes, for 10 thousand dollars, I will exercise my right to vote, Mr. Wasson.
And I will vote No on any proposal that allows selfish men to stay in office.
And I will vote No on any proposal that has the whiff of perfume and the heavy paste of artist's makeup but is really a turd inside.
The fact that you do not believe it to be spin is what makes it such great spin.
To 7:07 a.m. June 7th Blogger:
Where do you find any evidence of spin in my statement? I merely stated the facts, which speak for themselves - no spin needed.
Mr. Wasson's argument (and the subsequent lambasting of the five residents) was predicated on the assumption that voters' rights were affected by the petition. This is patently untrue. A ballot issue was temporarily suspended, not permanently removed. I have supported my point with facts, not spin. Are you able to do the same? Your remark would carry more weight if you had evidence to support it.
Martha Duchild
There was no spin in Martha Duchild's statement.
The five people exercised a right given to them in the charter.
The fact that they exercised this right does not mean residents were permanently denied a right to vote on the charter revision issues.
If there was any spin, it was the caustic diatribe by Mr. Wasson.
Sometimes things go round in circles. This week's editorial in the Call is of a different spin. You never know.
you gotta have spin, miles and miles of spin,
it is after all what keeps your inside's in.
One person's truth and facts is an other's spin, all of you have proved this in the your past posts about Wasson and his reporting vs. editorial.
His reporting was just that, a report and as such was based on the facts as presented to him by those whose actions he reports.
His editorial is his opinion,it may or may not be backed by facts, it could be based, as it was in this weeks editorial, on feelings towards Roy. Feelings are tough to support with facts. Try to understand the difference between facts/reporting and opinion, it will it so much easier to communicate with each other if you do.
Let me see, FACTS, or OPINION? Well dear friends a "reporter", reports a story on the facts as presented to him at the scene.
An editorialist states HIS beliefs, not facts, not public opinion, but HIS beliefs.
This, and last weeks editorial by Mr. Wasson are vastly different, why do you supose that would be?
Last week Crestwood citizens were low down so and so's for halting the right to vote (not true, but whatever,) and this week the Mayor, ET AL are wonderful.
Is it possible the boss is on vacation this week, or has Mr. Wasson had an epifany?
Time will tell.
Tom Ford
sorry martha - ur wrong again. several aldermen were term limited and therefore not on the ballot at all. so citizens were definitely affected by the actions of the infamous 5. u and i both know that was the real purpose of their actions. they think they are the true people of crestwood - anyone that disagrees with them are merely second class residents
To June 14 9:25 a.m. poster:
The five petitioners exercised a right granted by the charter. You may not be happy with the secondary effects of the petition, but that is no reason to apply the term "infamous" to these people.
As to why they filed the petition, I would not know unless I asked them directly, which I have not done. So no, I do not know why they did it (and wouldn't assume to), as you claim.
Did the filing of the petition cause citizens to be deprived of their right to vote? No, as I've said before. You are confusing two different issues. The delay of the charter amendment vote cost term-limited alderman a potential chance to put themselves on the April 2006 ballot. As I've stated before, this has nothing to do with the residents' right to vote. Were you able to vote in Crestwood's April 2006 election? I was able to, and so was any other registered voter.
It appears you have confirmed my position. Your argument is not that people were deprived of their right to vote; rather, it is that the petition prevented the term-limited alderman from placing themselves on the April ballot. That is an entirely different issue.
Martha Duchild
Crab, Crab, Crab. 9:25 6/14. Lets go way back when Mr. Fagan who ushered this Charter Review Committee in before it's time. Why blame the people who decided that before it went out to the people, maybe the citizens should have time before ramming it down their throats like Tom Fagan did when he tried to convince us we needed a new police facility.
This issue and the committee were to blame for why the residents had to intervene. Just like the Fagan Administration was about everything - play now, pay later.
If it will cost us more to wait until August for this to be voted on, I would rather have it that way so that everyone can make a conscious effort to understand the ramification of the changes being presented.
The termed out aldermen can always run again. The termed out aldermen gave a chance for new people to be on this board of aldermen. New faces and new ideas.
When you force people to decide on things and issues to change our Charter, I would rather have everyone be knowledgable about how they vote otherwise, it's like trying to cram cough syrup down a kid's throat and have them spit it up because it taste so bad.
Ah yes, the CHARTER! Ladies, and gentlemen, think of this document as being the corner stone of Crestwood, the linch pin on which hangs the future of our fine community!
The Charter has served Crestwood very well since it's inception, and as far as I can see, will serve Crestwood far into the future!
Let's examine the reasons for change.
Term limits: Why do we need that? are there no others in Crestwood qualified to take the post?
Recall: Well we have a method in place for that now, do we not?
Censure: Ditto on the method, it's called a "no confidence" vote by the board.
I am sure that there will be thoes that will tell me that fellow citizens worked long and hard to explore these "needed changes", and I fully appreciate that, and thank them for their service.
I look at the Charter in the same way that I look at the Constitution of the United States Of America. There are ways to ammend it, but why? Once anyone starts changing it, where will it stop?
Would someone please explain to me like I'm a three year old, why these changes are so needed? And while they are at it, why holding off a vote for four months has doomed the chance for change?
Could it be that the loudest complainers do not want the good citizens of Crestwood to understand the full measure of this ballot inititive, for fear of it going down to defeat?
In my humble opinion, it's a very well written document, in good order, and one that has stood the test of time!
So why change a word of it?
Tom Ford
IF YOU ARE AGAINST THE CHARTER AMENDMENTS THEN VOTE AGAINST THEM. BUT GIVE ME THE RIGHT TO HAVE MY VOTE TOO. SHEESH - HOW DOES IT HURT YOU FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE? YOU SOUND LIKE A BUNCH OF COMMUNISTS. THE ELITE FEW KNOW BEST!
Blogger at 10:09 6/2 What in the world do you mean, "who cares if the charter review commission was appointed the way that it was".
THAT'S NOT THE BIG PROBLEM! The problem was that many people in this city wouldn't know HOW TO VOTE YES OR NO - if it had been put on the April ballot. With other very important issues on that ballot, when were the people, the citizens, the meat and potatoes of this community, going to have time to study and learn about the charter amendments?
I commend you blogger at 10:09 June 2, if you are so intelligent that you could have made the right decision on the changes to the Charter in April. The people that signed the petition apparently felt they needed more time but you, and those of your kind, choose to blame the people that cared enough to do something about it.
I say WHO CARES IF WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL AUGUST. Why does everything have to be done today unless their is an ulterior motive we don't know about?
Apparently you, on the other hand, were willing to put your hand to the ballot and vote in April. How would you have voted? Let me guess. Well let's see; apparently you would have voted yes, just because the appointed commission members said to. Because you said, WHO CARES if they were appointed. Well lots of people CARED. Your comment is not the way it works kiddo!!!! It's a two way street, get use to it.
You are so willing to let others make your decisions for you that you don't feel you need to ask questions and you find solace in allowing the previous administration to do it for you, is one of the reasons we are in the soup in Crestwood today. In that case, you would have voted with your eyes closed and just agreed with everything. How convenient. Countries are obliterated having citizens like you who follow along just like sheep while the wolf is waiting to close in.
How wonderful it must be for you to be so smart!!!! The way things are placed on the ballot can be confusing and if you don't know it, maybe, just maybe in previous ballots, you have said yes when you mean no and visa versa. I'm sorry if I, for one, read the ballot language on issues several times so as to be sure I know what I am voting on.
Tom Fagan appointed that charter commission because Don Greer told him to and everything had to be done fast and furious and his way. Tom Fagan was mayor, but Don Greer made all of the decisions. And not being forthcoming to the public at large was one of the things Don Greer did best. Evasive replies were his forte. After all he got what he wanted that way. That's why the Charter Review Committee was formed IN A HURRY and that is why EVERYTHING was done in a hurry and that's why we are paying the price today.
And where are they. Don Greer is still being paid by this city until the end of June like he is a HERO, and now has a job where he can swindle his new city even more; and Tom Fagan is loved and adored by his Faganites for doing what? Keeping the CA in our city holding two jobs making a fortune, paying 800 dollars a month for his expensive car "because he has more money than you" as they say on the TV commercials, and spending hundreds of thousands keeping the lawyers for the city rich, and paying for expensive lawsuits.
So, my friend, that's why I care that something so serious as our Charter was going to be placed on a ballot prematurely. THERE WAS NO HURRY! THERE WAS ONLY STRATEGY AND METHODOLOGY approved by a willing board of aldermen.
I agree with blogger at 10:51 June 1st, "getting it right is the thing". The people are tired of being duped by the previous administration and the dubious antics of a city administrator who wanted to be king. It's a pity that the previous administration is too proud to admit they were all "taken to the cleaners" by the likes of DG. End of Discussion.
Give you your right? You have had your right all along!
Vote in August like the rest of us, but please don't give me this "woe is me" idea that you have been "done wrong"!
"Bunch of Communists"?, well done oh good and faithfull liberal servent! Resorting to name calling when your out of facts!
Tom Ford
Right to vote on the charter amendments?
No one has that right until the amendments are officially placed on the ballot and an official election is held. Until that time, no one has a right to vote on the charter amendments.
No one was denied their right because no one ever possessed that right in the first place.
Let's move on.
You really dont want to move on. If you did you wouldn't keep attacking former mayors, aldermen, former city employees and the swim club.
You just want to move on from THIS subject, don't you? Now, why would that be your desire?
THIS subject is one that I would love to discuss. I am guessing that "this subject" would be the charter, correct?
As you may know I have come out in favor of leaving the charter stand as is. To me these "changes" are both un-needed, and un-warranted. I doubt that the framers of the charter ever wanted an "Alderman for life", nor did they ever envision the need for censure over and above what's in the origional charter.
All this talk about denying the vote smacks of partisan politics. Let's face it folks, the charter has stood the test of time, and the so called "urgent need" to change it is not only not needed, it's a clear and present division in Crestwood at a time we can ill afford it!
I am sure you all have different opinions, but that's what makes America great! As for me, I plan to vote to keep the charter as is, where is, and I would ask all of you to consider the same vote.
Tom Ford
Blogger at 7:36 PM 6/15. Read Tom Ford's answer and understand that the need for term limits is necessary and should not be changed and he speaks the honest truth about this whole Charter thing that was shoved down our throats.
If term limits were to change, we would be stuck with the likes of you Mr. Blogger, and others on the board who refuse to move on. Move on means cooperation. We cannot move on if you and others stagnate the issues. You and others, sit on the dais with your baseball bats and choose to mangle every word that the mayor has to say.
I have heard Pat Duwe as near as a month ago, make fun of the mayor after the board meeting was over when speaking to a constituent. Mr. Bland is her new friend on the board. So that's two right there!
Mr. Kelleher will never, ever cooperate with this mayor, because his fellow Irishman lost the Mayoral election so he will always undermine Roy Robinson. Plain and Simple. AND - NO, NO I am not lashing out at the Irish. My reason for saying that is because Mayor Fagan has called Mr. Kelleher "his fellow compadrae" during his board meetings. It's called "sucking up". So, there lies another - that's three people. Do they represent you and I? I hope not. And once you are renounced by Mr. Kelleher, you never have a chance to change his mind whether he is right or wrong. He never goes back.
The jury is still out on Chris Pickel. Maybe just maybe Ward 2 will have a person who does his own research and doesn't "listen" to people when he should be considering the source and finding out things for himself.
We will see how fair minded these new board members are or if they will be filled with the usual "tripe" from the long-time members who didn't know a 14 million dollar police station when they heard about it.
Well folks, so far mr. Chris Pickel has been a breath of fresh air in ward two! I have been watching his voting record, and he is not "rubber stamping" anything Mssrs. Kelleher, Bland, and Ms. Duey are proposing. In fact he has voted on the side of the Mayor more than once, and I am glad to see it!
Chris, keep on being your own man, and you will have my support. In fact, your doing so well so far, I am glad you won, and not I! (I'll bet the swim club, and the St. E's group is thrilled as well!)
Tom Ford
Those who are misinformed and comment on voting in the August, 2006 election on the five Charter Propositions (June 14, 4:16 PM, 6:39 PM, 7:33 PM and 8:59 PM) may be disappointed when they go to vote in August. The five Propositions are on the November, 2006 ballot. It never ceases to amaze me how little accurate, reliable information and how much heresay some bloggers have on subjects which they comment on so authoritatively on this blog.
It's not all that hard to realize that the Charter ballot issue has mentioned several dates in the paper thus the date mistake the last blogger made. What is hard to understand is your attitude, last blogger. Or why you even placed this blog. You might be surprised at how much people know about what is going on and how much they care. I would not judge them on a date mistake. I am just happy that they put a blog on the site which wasn't filled with sarcasm, innuendo and tripe. One does not have to be an authority to be a loyal resident of Crestwood. Better that than Mr. Motor Mouth, unable to get over the loss of his pacifier and whose contribution on this site is considered pathetic. One would have to stretch things pretty far to consider your input either reliable or accurate, and certainly not positive. I think people will go to the polls on the right date. Can you knaw on another bone now?
Blogger at 6:16 PM thanks for coming to my rescue on the ballot issue. I wonder if the previous blogger knows anything other than the month the charter will be placed on the ballot. Blogger at 4:16 June 17th can be smug about his/her correction, but I wouldn't trust him/her getting the issues correct.
4:16 blogger. Why is it that " It never ceases to amaze me how little accurate, reliable information and how much heresay some bloggers have on subjects which they comment on so authoritatively on this blog"?
If they were wrong on the dates for the vote, can't we just say so and let it go from there? I am going to look up the actual dates, and post them for all to see (You could have done that rather than to insult the blogger.)
The real question here should be why are we changing the very foundation of Crestwood to begin with? Is it because of term limits? Do we really need a way to censure our Mayor (other than the ways it can be done now,) or is because some feel that they know better than the rest of how Crestwood should work?
I will be voting NO on changing a document that has served us so well to date, and I really believe most of my fellow citizens will do the same. Let's save the $10,000.00 to put it on the ballot (money we need elsewhere,) and work within the framework of an excellent charter as it is!
Tom Ford
his is what I have found at the St. Louis County Board of elections so far. As you can see, NO ELECTION DATES SO FAR:
Board of Election Commissioners of
St. Louis County, Missouri
Election - Address Information
Election Board Home
There is no election currently scheduled. You may use the following for informational purposes only.
YOUR TOWNSHIP AND PRECINCT ARE
GRA004
YOUR POLLING PLACE IS
No Election Scheduled
YOUR BALLOT ISSUES FOR THE UPCOMING ELECTION ARE
No Election Scheduled
YOUR DISTRICTS AND ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE
OFFICE OR DISTRICT NAME
US Senator JIM TALENT (R)
US Senator CHRISTOPHER BOND (R)
US Representative (District 3) RUSS CARNAHAN (D)
Governor MATT BLUNT (R)
Lt. Governor PETER KINDER (R)
Secretary of State ROBIN CARNAHAN (D)
State Auditor CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D)
State Treasurer SARAH STEELMAN (R)
Attorney General JEREMIAH W. "JAY" NIXON (D)
State Senator (District 15) MICHAEL R. GIBBONS (R)
State Rep (District 95) JIM AVERY (R)
County Executive CHARLIE A. DOOLEY (D)
Prosecuting Attorney ROBERT P. MCCULLOCH (D)
County Council (District 3) SKIP MANGE (R)
Municipality CRESTWOOD
Ward 2
School District LINDBERGH
Fire District MUNI FIRE DISTRICT
Library ST LOUIS COUNTY
When we have a firm date, I will advise.
Tom Ford
Post a Comment
<< Home