Board of Alderman meeting for 7/11/06
Please click on the header to be directed to the adgenda for this meeting. We will be posting what happened later.
Tom Ford
No.181
Tom Ford
No.181
posted by Crestwood Independent at 18:53
Tuesday, July 11, 2006
Contributors
82 Comments:
Our aldermen for the most part seem to have read their packets and come to the meeting prepared to ask important questions and answer the questions; however, when you have an alderman who sits the entire course of a meeting and does not contribute one thing, it's a safe bet, the packet provided them has probably not even been opened. Election 2007 is not that far off, let's look for some truly good aldermanic material; people who are willing to make an effort to help their city, not sit thru meetings to get their measely 350.00 a month.
Ditto to comment #1. But also, how about having more people attend the meetings. It's about time that we show the aldermen that if they are not going to make a contribution up on the dais, we will elect someone else who will.
If we expect good aldermen, we have to show them we are in the seats watching our backs to make sure we have good representation. Otherwise, by our absence, we will show them we don't care.
Blogger 10:13 P.M., 7/12 made excellent points in their blog. We would all benefit from solid representation from officials who do their homework and return phone calls to constituants and review their packets. I, too, have noticed that one official does little more than block vote on issues never initiates any action or has any voice. Their contribution is little more than attendance and collecting their $350. In another Ward, there is an official whose decorum as a public rep has been so lacking in maturity as to be disturbing. By comparison, these two Aldermen are totally out of step, not suited for public office and should be replaced with people who take this job seriously. Yes, now would be a very good time to find more suitable candidates for this office and make sure they realize this position is not meant to be a stepping stone, a social event or to be a pawn to politics. The aldermen of whom I speak demean and delay the work, progress and reputation of the remainder of the board, who seem to be trying to piece our town back together. With this in mind, you and I know there are many solid citizens in this town who could handle this job with integrity, fitting behavior and interest. Let's get busy tracking them down and convincing them to run for office and help Crestwood with the jump start needed to turn the darkness of yesterday into the brightness of tomorrow.
Since I was not at the meeting - which Alderman are you referring to? Why be so secret?
In all of the BOA defense - they get packets to review. Maybe they have already addressed their questions with staff prior to the meeting. Maybe they have discussed with other BOA members prior to the meeting. Maybe their questions were already answered by other BOA questions. Why jump to conclusions? Seems to be very common occurance.
Jump to conclusions. I don't think so. Secret, I don't think so. Aldermanic behavior and performance are open for all to see at the meetings. This would include you if you were there. The earlier blogs which mentioned participation and behavior of 2 of the aldermen are right on target, out there for all to see. In fact they provided the best reason for term limits I have ever seen. Why, because they were truthful, not accusations.
This is a blog. Blogs are historically anonymous by design. This blog, sadly, has a few particularly sick bloggers who are so filled with hate and vindictiveness that when one does sign their name, they are raked over coals for no reason at all.
By the way, I did not see your name on your blog.
If you are concerned about fair play, then you will be one of those who can only appreciate the good changes taking place in our city government. None the least of which is a few new faces on the BOA. Not conjecture, fact.
To the blogger at 2:24 PM, July 13, 2006
I am so sorry I even made a comment. It was an innocent question and trying to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I doubt you have contacted the "secret" alderman you are referring to, to discuss your concerns and get the facts.
And talk about "filled with hate and vindictiveness that when one does sign their name, they are raked over coals for no reason at all."
I believe that is just what you did yourself, because I did not sign my name -- I guess that makes it ok? my goodness. enough, either answer the questions or don't - no need to rake me over the coals.
Yes, I too would like to know the names of the aldermen that previous bloggers are referring to.
You made the accusation - come clean with it and don't blast others who want to know.
There is a very simply solution to this: attend just ONE meeting. If you are interested enough in Crestwood to write on this blog, then surely you are interested enough to attend a BOA meeting. Interestingly enough, the one aldermen who adds no comment does not answer her phone or do email!
Whoops! Was that a Freudian slip?
Come on bloggers! Let's be nice. Once again, do we do nothing and standby while all of this hostility is breeding in our midst?
Let's not get into a pickle! I know that most blogs are never bland, but this is wild. So I ask you, please be considerate and think before you rake someone over the coals and get yourself into a tif.
4:39 blogger, well done kemosabie! To take it one step further, Duwe need these remarks, Nieder of us really knows the inner workings of the secret meetings you speak of! Will Obie one Robie approve?
Well that's the best I can do for now, so jump back in blogger!
Very good! You made me smile and thank you!!!
Where is the hostility? Where did that come from? If there are aldermen who do not return phone calls, but accept their salary, and sit up there and do-nothing. If there are aldermen who are out of line - what exactly is wrong with complaining about them? It is not what they were put in office for. Surely you can't be serious about this if you haven't seen it in action. There is no excuse for not returning phone calls - period. As for the noxious behavior of one notable alderman - no secret here. It is all there to see when it happens. And it is not in the least unusual to complain about it. It is Open Season. Expectations are high! They should be.
Benefit of doubt, come on, why did you start this string if you weren't trying to start something or weren't willing to listen? Get yourself up to snuff on the boards history and its members accomplishments and behavior patterns and then come back and make some sense. You seem to like stretching out this raking over the coals bit. Come clean yourself and quit blasting. This is a blog for heavens sake. What do you expect,Cheese with your Whine?
Feathers in Crestwood are easily rustled and it is not hard to understand why. Take a good look at what we have dealt with in the last few years here in Peyton Place.
Cheese with my Whine? Ok I'll take it! Let's all be glad we live in interesting times my friends.
The world suitiation continues to fall into the abyss, oil prices are up, idiot's abound at the higest levels, and when you look at all of that, Crestwood is not doing so bad afterall!
The next three days will tell us weather we will see WW 3, or a pull back from the brink!
I was in the Navy during the "Cuban Missle Chrisis", and I can tell you the big one was only a heart beat away! The Isralies are not known to back down, and the Arabs, well they are what they are!
When we reflect on these problems it sort of makes Crestwood's a bit more manageable. Let's all hope the "Mexican standoff" can be remidied, and soon!
Tom Ford
I wonder why the BOA meeting adgenda/work session has not been discussed. (As the blog has put as the topic) It seems the only discussion about the meeting has been the posture of Alderman.
Why? Embarrassed that in the event that the TDD board finds the $800,000 not to be included in the TDD will only penalize the developer that chose to invest in Crestwood?
What??? Are the binders wrong?
Where is the posting regarding what happened at the meeting - as stated in the original post? I thought this was to be also an informational site?
Hopefully the blogger host, will grace us with a post, of what happened at the board meeting, knowledge of which we are needing.
People, pay attention: People who attended the 7/11/06 meeting have put their input in. What part of this do you not understand. Our new CA presented a full page of things accomplished to save all us tax payers money. It was the second page attached to the agenda. He did not have to do this. Hes making a lot of extra effort for you, why can't you make the effort to be a good citizen and go to some of the meetings. If you don't want to be dependent on other people's opinions, get off you duff and see yourself. No admission charged!
Why? Embarrassed that in the event that the TDD board finds the $800,000 not to be included in the TDD will only penalize the developer that chose to invest in Crestwood?
Answer: Was the developer told the truth about the proper ownership of the Crestwood Swim Club? It only took two years for Armstrong Teasdale to correct their description of ownership of the pool on their website. It will appear that even Armstrong Teasdale may have been misinformed of which pool is owned by the City of Crestwood.
What??? Are the binders wrong?
Answer: The binders are actual copies of legal documentation found in Crestwood's ordinances and Board of Alderman meetings.
All facts easily proven.
Not to change the subject but it has come to our attention that many homes that are located on Sanders, Clover, and Connover are being purchased by Bellington Real Estate Company.
Who are their investors and what are their intentions for use of these properties?
Could it be that Bellington Real Estate is planning to build large condo's in this area or to cover up the hazardous waste that was dumped here before the EPA clean water act of 1965?
Shouldn't we be able to find the paperwork between 1947 and 1965 concerning dumping of waste materials into the sewer lines.
Surely someone out there has a copy of this paperwork concerning these issues. We would ask any citizen with knowledge of this to please come forth with as this concerns all of our HEALTH.
You can share all of this information on the blog while remaining anonymous.
Please help save lives!
Fact is THF knew what property they had to acquire. They simply may have structured their purchase incorrectly to be eligible for being reimbursed for the City Hall Parking Lot. This was a private transaction and the City was not privy to sale contract or details until THF requested reimbursement from the TDD. If they did indeed structure their purchase incorrectly, it's on them and not the City as the City only agreed to allow the TDD to be set up.
Bolger 10:57AM you should call Armstrong Teasdale and ask them if they were "misinformed of which pool is owned by the City of Crestwood". You keep bringing this issue up and you should get an answer strait from the horse’s mouth.
Call and you will find it was nothing more than mistake made by their Website guy who thought that since it was named Crestwood Swim Club it must have belonged to the City. Thinking "Black Helicopters" when there are none to found.....
Would this be the whole reason for naming a private pool Crestwood Swim Club to mislead everyone.
It sure fooled me.
I always thought the Crestwood Swim Club was Crestwood Public Pool.
The fact that there is nothing to indicate it is a private pool.
In reference to 12:39 PM, July 14, 2006 posting, is it true that the Crestwood Private Swim Club paid $1.00 for parking lot privileges on the City Hall.
Fact is THF knew what property they had to acquire. They simply may have structured their purchase incorrectly to be eligible for being reimbursed for the City Hall Parking Lot. This was a private transaction and the City was not privy to sale contract or details until THF requested reimbursement from the TDD. If they did indeed structure their purchase incorrectly, it's on them and not the City as the City only agreed to allow the TDD to be set up.
I have read this and I do not understand this. Could you clarify how this could have occurred without the city knowing it?
"Fact is THF knew what property they had to acquire. They simply may have structured their purchase incorrectly to be eligible for being reimbursed for the City Hall Parking Lot. This was a private transaction and the City was not privy to sale contract or details until THF requested reimbursement from the TDD. If they did indeed structure their purchase incorrectly, it's on them and not the City as the City only agreed to allow the TDD to be set up."
From what I know about THF and Armstrong Teasdale, they are two very professional firms that do this sort of thing daily. That said, I do not see either of them "structuring" their purchase incorrectly. If they had, I believe we would have heard about it long before now.
Alderman Miguel went to Armstrong Teasdale to look at the files concerning the project, and as you may know recommended we put a hold on it until the files were up to date.
In my estimation this should be refered back to the TDD, CID boards for a review prior to any bonds being sold. As for the statement that this was a "private transaction", why is the city collecting 3/8 cent extra tax to pay for the swim club? If this is "private" then let whomever made the deal pay for it, and not shoppers at Kohl's!
I have heard many times that there is nothing wrong with the way things were done here. My question is, if that's true, why not send it back to the respective commissions for their review? It sure seems to me that the $800,000.00 would go a long way tward reducing the City's debt load, and thus the TDD tax should go to the City, not to a "private transaction".
Tom Ford
Considering all the facts, figures, assumptions, doubts, etc. presented regarding the TDD, TIF, Private Pool, Parking Lot, and city involvement, Kohls, bonds, etc. etc. I hold the city officials completely accountable for getting to the absolute bottom of this issue. If there is a rush to judgement, it is gross negligance. It may be nothing, it may be something. But the way things have been going on in Crestwood, it is time to take the time and effort to assure that all is above board. And I do mean ALL. Otherwise, we are just continuing past practices of hiding the facts and covering mistakes. Officials involved in any way with past or present in the Crestwood Private Swim Club should recuse themselves entirely. Paving over matters such as this for the sake of time or money is not acceptable.
While I was not in attendence at the BOA meeting, I do have a couple of items to report on.
From what I heard there was a work session to discuss the sale of the TIF, TDD, CID bonds, were the rep. from Steifel Nicholas recommended we hold off on the sale of the TIF bonds. He did recommend that we proceed with the TDD bonds within 60 days however.
During the meeting, the subject of road re -surfacing came up, and the Director of Public Works stated how the city had allways put out the bids for same. It was then discussed by the Alderman with A Ward Three Alderman recomending that a change be made. At that point a Ward Two Alderman spoke up, asked questions, and stated that we should continue to do it the same way.
Now, I know I am in the HVAC business, but I will tell you that if you do all the measuring, and give the contractor the project scope, you preclude the chance of ever saving money on the job. Why you say? Well now you have given the contractor the opportunity for "cost over runs" as well as the option of using possibly inferior materials.
I, like the Ward Three Alderman believe we should be giving the contractor the job of quoting our project within the scope of the job. Why give them more information than is needed?
As to who is more informed on this type of work, my money is on the Ward Three Alderman, he knows the construction trade, the Ward Two Alderman does not!
Tom Ford
"We will be posting what happened later" Who? When? Where is the beef?
The "what happened", or Who, When, Where, is up to the BOA and the Director of Public Works. If you think this idea has merit, let them know!
Why, "Because you paid for it", as Mr. Davis would say.
Tom Ford
Sounds like the Ward 3 Alderman has a little more heads up on the parking lot issue. We need expertise.
I think the one Ward 2 Alderman is more or less administrative and the other one has never advised the city of his occupation. If it is in the field of construction, fine. Otherwise, lets get over this ping pong thingy.
Can we please this time, do the sensible thing. Not disagree to disagree. We are watching the stance of Aldermen and we are expecting the correct decisions. Politics in this town is the kiss of death. Don't annoy us with it or waste our time. We fully expect the new broom to sweep clean.
Tom, this may clarify things or may not....
Armstrong Teasdale works for the City, not THF. They would not have had access to THF's files or review their contracts prior to THF submitting for reimbursement. While THF does do this stuff allot, this project was very complex and it was up to THF to close on the property, not the City or Armstrong Teasdale. In fact, the TDD had not been enacted when THF bought the property.
The sale of the old Swim Club to THF was between owner (Rosebrook) and buyer (THF Crestwood Point). THF should have bought both the old pool and the parking lot at City Hall.... they apparently didn't. They bought the old swim club and then as part of the sale contract, the swim club deeded the parking lot to the city for $1. It should have been THF Crestwood Point deeding the parking lot to the City for a $1 and then asking the TDD to reimburse it for cost of parking lot. One sentence in a private contract is the issue.
I agree, send it back to the TDD Board, CID Board etc and review it with a microscope. There is nothing illegal in what was supposed to be done. The State TDD Statute says TDD money can be used for parking lots that is what was supposed to happen. TDD money can not be used to fund city operations or pay down lines of credit. If it turns out that because of the way THF purchased the property they can’t get reimbursed for the City Hall parking lot, then the TDD Tax will go away sooner rather than later and everyone can move on to the next item.
Excellent! Let's tell our Alderman to get it done now! I can see no reason not to send ir back to the TDD board for review. Parking lot's yes, private pool's, no.
If you ask me, I would like to see it done right, and may the chip's fall where they may.
Tom Ford
The person who wrote the comments regarding the THF, etc. did not sign their name, so we are reading notes from a stranger. However, thoughtful input is always appreciated and this is no exception. So, thanks.
While it is up to our city officials, who took an oath to serve, to fulfill the obligation of handling this matter with the intensity needed, it is up to wary residents to hold out for truth. To me the part that is sensitive and a very serious matter is that a private swim club was ever even allowed to relocate wedged inappropriately on property that so closely abuts residential property and has proved to be unsuitable for this type of development. Resident's lives and property values have changed. There are lights, noise, water runoff, rocks, parking, debris. There are rumored code and permit issues never fully answered and the fact that for many many many years members of this private club have served on the Board of Alderman and other city boards.
It is, therefore, not in the slightest unusual for this whole issue to cause eyebrows to lift. It does not sit right and does not smell right. And it does seem like the issue just keeps getting swept under the rug. It is time to uncover whatever is under there.
This was not a good spot for this private swim club. How and why did it happen? After this is determined - fully -- then let's talk about Rosebrook and the money side of things. Crestwood cannot continue to avail itself to bad judgement and the interests of the few rather than the many. This is a sore spot and an excellent place to start the healing process for our city. Too many unanswered questions, and they are all fair and logical ones.
Blogger at 10:16 AM, 7/15. You are superbly right with your remarks. I have been here for many years and this private swim club has a big, long and questionable history dealing with many issues including the homeowners abutting it.
This long shroud should be lifted for sure. When lifted, many, many people who were aldermen for years as well as swim club people will come crawling out from underneath this subtrifuge. Issues including permits, and lots of dubious transactions dealing with ordinances, noise, drainage, et al, were never addressed to the satisfaction of those in and around the area.
That's why their homes are not worth what they should be worth. Homes with the same style, square footage and all the same amenities that do not abut the swim club are worth much more on the market. Not fair at all.
Many swim club persons who do know the history, can ridicule the abutting homeowners all they want, but they would never buy a home there. Others who are newer members have no clue. They just hear about how unfair these people are. Once again - "walk a mile in my shoes" and then make a decision.
I do not care if an alderman is or is not a member of this swim club but they should be working hard to assist these people with their issues. These citizens are part of Ward 2. So far, that has never happened. So far, the newer aldermen have only been spoon fed what others they consider friends and long-time associate pool people tell them.
If they indeed try to get to the bottom of this issue, they will definitely be shunned at their hospitality/fun club. So, do they win the war, but loose their clout with their friends? The jury is out on that question!
But to this day, nothing I mean nothing has stuck. You talk about Teflon John Gotti being infallable as far as persons trying to get him indicted? Teflon John, because nothing "sticks"!!
The Teflon Pool has had people in high places taking care of them for years. Good luck trying to find information on this bottomless pit!
If we have a few Aldermen that are willing to put Crestwood first I think we can get to the bottom of the pool issue.
The BOA should open a formal investigation of the circumstances surrounding the pool, it's permits, and the TDD deal. Many residents do not know that the Board has subpena power, and can compell wittnesses ti testify reference the above.
As is stated many times on this blog, "there is nothing wrong with this deal". Well if that's true why not get it all out in the open, be sworn in, and testify before the Board, and the citizens. Let all of us hear the truth from wittnesses, and get this behind us one way or the other!
I would think that if your a member of the club you would gladly help to put this to rest. Let's request of our Alderman that the Board take action on this soon, and before any of the TDD bonds are sold. It could be that the pool was never ment to be part of the TDD, and if so, were going to pay down the debt sooner than we thought!
Tom Ford
Let me suggest a good place to start with the circles and arrows would be on a person who is on the board of Rosebrook Realty, a Swim Club Member, a former alderman, an attorney (imagine that) and whose house is for sale in Ward 2.
Isn't it pretty obvious that whoever had the most to benefit financially would have wanted the pool put where it was? I don't belong to the pool, I go to the real crestwood pool, the one they build for us crestwood citizens, why we have two in such a small area doesn't make economic sense. But the kicker is, if you stand on one of the people's backyards on Rosaire and look up at that pool, it's scary. To have a pool that high in the air with a high concrete side that could break simply because it is a free standing wall is scherr idiocy. One little shake of an earthquake would topple it. Probably the builder doesn't have small children who frequent this pool and considering nobody else's property was considered, he probably wouldn't care about that either. Who's idea was this and isn't that pool on ground ruled residential? I have seen one back yard that this pool has ruined. I'm sure the property value went south because of the pool's location. So WHO had so much to gain by putting the pool there that he/they simply disregarded others citizens property? And who were the board of aldermen at the time of the voting that they went along with it. Who in their right mind would do this, certainly noone who was putting their civic duties ahead of possibly personal gain. Personally the location of where this pool was built shows a complete lack of common sense. it's a downright ridiculous place to build a swimming pool so close to our government center. Nothing else makes sense except that some one person really made out like a bandit on this deal. He had to had some help, this would have been too much for one individual to pull off. What did the neighbors have to say when this was being planned. What happened to their property value? This is nothing better than stealing from those close to this mess. Someone is darned lucky I don't have property destroyed by the building of a swimming pool close to my lifelong home and investment. I wouldn't have just sat and let this happen. The way I figure, you have to fight fire with fire. The builders must have come up against a lot of older or sick people who couldn't protect their property. A shameful legacy against our town.
Wow, just jumped on and last writer, I believe you are right. I wanted to ask, why is it that none of the former aldermen ever attend the meetings? People who care about their town go to public meetings. Do people just want to be aldermen so they can get certain ordinances passed and when that's accomplished, poof they are gone and never seen again?
I heard the contractor was the son of a long time swim club member and brother in law of an alderman.
Yep, tis true! Read the saga of the pool!
Regarding former Aldermen attending meetings - I believe that Mr. Ford states he gets his information from others (cub reporters) so why can't former Aldermen do the same? I guess it is who you are.
Point well taken!
I believe that former Aldermen have served to help us, and as such deserve to spend their remaining time wherever they choose to.
We elected new Aldermen to step in and do the work needed to make this City run efficiently. The job of a former Alderman should be like a former President, be there, and advise, and consent only.
Tom Ford
Well, well - it's all about the aldermen!! And I agree we need good ones. But.....I hope that down the road, I can see two aldermen in Ward 2 that are not Crestwood Swim Club members elected and serving us at the same time.
You talk about going back in the history of the Crestwood Swim Club? Check it out for yourself. We have always had at least one alderman from the swim club in Ward 2, and we will all be 6 ft under before we see anything changing.
In the meantime, the saga goes on with original swim club members, their children and their children's children, and so on and so on. I live with people two blocks over who are all swim club people. In all the time I have lived in Crestwood and been their neighbor, none of them have ever asked me to join it. They have always had their own click and that was that! They are so far above the rest of us, why indeed would they not feel they have to elect one of their own to feel protected, while the abutting homeowners suffer for it.
Believe me, they all are cut from the same cloth. And R.M. rules with an iron fist. You may as well be talking to the wall if you say anything against that swim club to her. She'll scream so loud you will hear her all the way to Hwy. 66. And if you haven't been confronted by her, consider yourself lucky. Maybe all the enforcement people at City Hall are afraid of her; maybe that's why they sit and do nothing about the problems on Rosaire. Beats Me!
Who really cares whether the person of whom you speak yells loud. I would not give her the time of day for having a loud and vengeful mouth. This kind of behavior reflects on the Swim club and since she has this reputation, it demeans the swim club and the many nice members who essentially ignor her. It also demeans her family, her church and any friends she has. In truth, she may have a loud attention grabbing notice me mouth, but it is just that no one reminds her of this because most people just let her carry on and privately think she is disgusting. Iron hand Lizzies of the world seldom deserve nor get respect. She is under an illusion if she thinks all members up there think she is kosher. They go up there to swim and since she loves the spotlight so much, she will do all the grunt work and thus the popularity she thinks she has is actually pretty bogus. So while the Ward 2 Aldermen have found a useful and translucent comrade in this pool scion, the rest of us just laugh!
Okay, lots of banter on this swim club issue. How about some solid stuff. Please consider those out here who have facts and who expect them to be uncovered by officials who seem to have so many private sessions. Who can advise the exact amount paid to Rosebrook Realty for the old swim club and relocation to the new spot? Where is it written that the Kohl's parking lot had to have the old pool site? What is the square footage of the Kohl's parking lot? The Kohl's in Manchester at the old Venture store is not this big.Was this an actual law, or was Kohl's perhaps going to be an inconvenience to the old and crumbling swim club?
Are city records archived or did the paper shredders go into action when this subject came up the last 2 years. Note, the paper shredders have now moved on.
Deeding the parking lot to the city for $1 by the wrong party, why? If this kind of "wording" was inadvertantly made and called a mistake, what other wording was done wrong posing other inequities?While we are at it, why did the City of Crestood build a city hall next to a parking lot owned by a private swim club? Why did they not buy the parking lot then or have it deeded over then? (look up the mayor and aldermen in office at the time and since) What kind of write off is given for deeding a parking lot for $1? A parking lot that the city now has to maintain and probably always did and share with swim meets, parties, etc. If they are so picky about parking lot sizes, how is it that this parking lot on Detjen Drive is approved and big enough for both the city hall and a swim club and police cars, etc.?
All these tangles are probably why the person who asked "where are all the former aldermen?" They are avoiding bullets. Wouldn't you? Crestwood residents and qualified officials must press for full disclosure and not settle for things like "one wrong sentence," etc. There is big money, an entire residential neighborhood, a ridiculous positioning of this private club, noise, lights, water runoff, neighbor intimidation, a tax at Kohl's, property values,questions about codes and permits and the contractor as mentioned previously and the ominous and quite obvious political positions held now and then by aldermen and city attorneys in (current districted) Wards 1, 2 and 4 for years as well as presently. If I am not mistaken there is an alderman serving whose spouse was a charter member of Rosebrook. Look it up.
Judging by the intensity of comments posted by obvious members of the swim club on this site every time this subject is addressed it is easy to understand this matter is a priority assignment for the qualified elected officials in the City of Crestwood, and not taking the word of outside companies anxious to put this to bed. The entire complex issue leaves too much open for lawsuits from residents and concerned parties and if the qualified city officials don't know by now residents expect this tempest handled, they may want to consider options.
I agree with the two last bloggers at 2:32 pm and 4:59 pm, 7/17.
The history of the Crestwood Swim Club alone from day one would boggle your mind. I only remember it from when Bob Murray was Mayor but it started before then.
For the life of me, I just cannot figure out how this pool always comes up smelling like a rose, when the pivital fact that the housing stock around it's perimeter has suffered and never has had anyone to protect their rights.
The injustice of it all just defies the very existence of why we have two members of the board of aldermen in Ward 2 that took an oath to protect ALL OF WARD 2.
You can belittle those who have tried to stick up for their rights and have complained to the city for years about the pool, and you can say whatever you want to say about those overlooked residents of the political role played by those chosen to protect every citizen, but to me, those big shots who have tooned out those who have had to live with this injustice for years, should be taken to task.
If I lived there, I would be so fed up by now that there would be no way I would try to keep my property up. I would just give up. Why try to keep it nice? Why should they when it isn't worth a plug nickel when they try to sell it anyway. Some of these people, especially one resident, has been laughed at, and poked fun of for years and to me it is disgraceful to think that there has been no help or assistance by the city and a blatent refusal by the officials in Crestwood to help in any way.
Sorry, if you disagree. It comes down to "liberty and justice for all". And the people who live over on Rosaire and Bali Court, et al, should be stinken mad at all the years they have had to put up with this baloney.
Everyone should be treated equally under the law PERIOD! These people have been laughed at, been the topic of jokes, and you name it. For What? Because they wanted to be treated just like the rest of us. I can't imagine how I would feel under the same circumstances.
And to Blogger at 2:32 pm. Good I am glad the Iron Hand Lizzy comes off as pretty bogus. She should be the laughing stock. But you have to be pretty narrow minded to feel that you are that superior. Why doesn't someone tell her to put a sock in it? I was always under the impression that she had everyone totally enamoured with her loud noise and explitives.
Why can't just one person in charge at the pool understand how it feels to be on the other side of the fun? To have to live with noise, drainage, and distruction of property?
At this point in time, it is not up to the Ward 2 Aldermen to handle this Ward 2 problem; (actually it is a city problem now) they are both members of the private club. They are out of the picture, as are 2 Ward 1 Aldermen and 1 Ward 4 alderman. It is up to the members of the BOA who do not belong nor ever have to this club. They esentially represent all of the city, not just their ward. It behooves these remaining Aldermen to upset the status quo on this issue and move it clearly out in the open. It has been a cause of discontent and malfeasance way too long. The same rules apply to any city attorney. If they are or have been a member of this private swim club, they must recuse.
Gentle bloggers we may indeed see some sort of "liberty and justice for all", and sooner rather than later!
I have been told that a higher authority may soon be looking into this entire program reference the structering of the TDD, and the swim club buy out. Now before you say not true, or speculate on who that might be, it's true, and you will never guess who, believe me!
I, for one will be happy to sit back and watch this play out. We all deserve answers to some very important questions, and it look's like we will get them.
Maybe, just maybe we can all put this to rest for ever, and no matter which way it falls out, well, we will then know the truth!
Tom Ford
Well speaking of higher authorities, gonna look into the swim club deal, etc. etc. - let's hope the entire lid is lifted. No if's, and's, or buts. I can't say all this secrecy is conducive to trust. Time to roll out the whole story and lay it on the line. Think maybe residents have had enough cloak and daggar in the dark.
Where's the Beef.
First I heard about a basketball coach who is amazed he was fired. Of course he works for a school district not known for having lots of discretionary funds, owns 3 homes and an expensive car and has a large bank account. Then I heard about a man who lives in a gated street in Chesterfield who owes the gov't $4 million dollars, has hardly paid any of it, and had a plea agreement even though he had straw companies who hire illegals to clean floors at Wal Mart and is totally guilty but walking the streets. I won't even go into weapons of mass destruction. Then there is the citizens land at Forest Park which Barnes Hospital wants to gobble up. Then of course we have the issue of fee offices being run by political cronies and relatives of politicians and Ameren wanting us to pay for the Lesterville disaster with a nice fat rate increase. How about the politicians new raise, but no minimum wage raise. Hey, and this is all current!
Somewhere along the way, "trusting the force" doesn't work. Every day we have another hand in our pockets. This swim club issue is the last straw in this tiny town. So, I certainly hope this "it's true and you're not going to believe me" is solid. I don't think we are up for any more "Beef."
Fair enough!
Blogger at 7:25 pm 7/17. If the Ward 2 Aldermen are out of this picture as you so state BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO THE SWIM CLUB, then WHY ALLOW THEM TO RUN FOR WARD 2 ALDERMEN WHERE ALL OF WARD 2 RESIDENTS WILL NOT BE REPRESENTED BY THEM WHEN ISSUES OF GRAVE CONCERN NEEDS THEM THE MOST?
I can see that other aldermen on the board who belong to the swim club would have to recuse themselves, but why on earth would the two aldermen elected to serve ALL OF WARD 2 have to do that when they were specifically elected to represent ALL?
HOW CAN THIS BE ALLOWED??????
I doubt seriously if they will have to recuse themselves from voting. After the submission of documentation from the developer to the TDD board, the TDD board will vote - Not the Board of Alderman. Where have you been???
I have heard when this discussion came up at the BOA meeting, it was clearly stated that if not included in the TDD - it would be the developer's loss only. Nothing to do with the Crestwood Swim Club or the City of Crestwood.
Then the amount of the TDD must be reduced by $850,000 if the swim club is not a part of the TDD as Alderman Pickel stated!
This is becoming easier to fix all the time. Now we only need Alderman, and a TDD board that will cancell it from the TDD funds, and so inform the THF Realty as well as the Rosebrook Realty Companies.
What about it respective board members, will you do the right thing?
Tom Ford
Both Ward 2 Aldermen, and both Ward 1 Aldermen, and 1 Ward 4 Aldermen are members of the Private Crestwood Swim Club.
If anything, anything at all, involving a vote at city hall and regarding this private swim club comes up, these people will need to recuse themselves from voting. If any of these people or others on boards are members of this club, and they have a decision on the swim club, they, too, must recuse themselves.
It is the just and proper thing to do.
WE have had years and years and years of these people serving on boards used as props to get things through on that pool while looking the other way.
It is now time to end this slick manuever. For once and for all. Didn't you ever wonder why so many Aldermen (and city attorney) are historically members of the Crestwood Swim Club? Don't you think it strange the way this troublesome pool sits in a spot that is totally unsuitable.
If there is a hint of the pool issue within the TIF, TDD, THF, etc, etc. it is EXPECTED that the aforementioned aldermen recuse. Otherwise residents can bring suit. This is truly an issue that bears legal expertise, and NOT from the sitting city attorney. He, too, has a swim club history.
ACtually, upon investigation, it was found one alderman served on a board and voted on a swim club issue. This is not going unnoticed.
yawn
Who are you to claim the pool site is unsuitable? Unsuitable, explain your claim and support it with facts, not 6 inch files. And while your at it explain how if 5 members of the Board recuse themselves and it takes at 4 to pass anything what you expect will happen?
Let's here why they would have to recuse themselves. How have they profited from the pool. Seems to me all anyone gets is a nice cool place to take a dip in the summer and that is it.
If the TDD board decides not to include the amount in question, THF is the only responsible party to be informed.
THF HAS ALREADY PURCHASED THE PROPERTY of Crestwood Swim Club's old location.
If the developer is not able to recoup that amount within the TDD, then it will be expensed.
Hey, the yawner is back!
Drink too much Australian vodka makes people yawn. It has something to do with dulling the brain. Oh yes, and turning the complexion red.
The Alderman need not recuse themselves because THF owns the property in question. NOT CRESTWOOD SWIM CLUB. Transaction between THF and the Crestwood Swim Club is completed. Can't you get it? If the property in question is not included in the TDD - the only entity that is affected is THF.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up about this. The pool is bad, so there.
Welcome back Yawner. Hear you have a job selling Vodka. I can think of no one more qualified.
Hear Hear!
I think that if THF does not get their funds back from the swim club purchase we will see some outstanding fireworks!
I would just like to be a fly on the wall when they are told that their $850,000 investment in a swimming pool will not be refunded.
I would not wish to be the guy who tells them to "expense it"!
It's more than interesting that Armstrong Teasdale has found "irregularities" that must be addresed. It seems to me that (if it's removed from the TDD,) THF will be looking very closely at someone for relief ($850,000,) I sure would!The next few months will be very interesting indeed.
To the 9:11 PM blogger, if you move out of a blighted pool apraised at $88,000 into a pool built for $850,000 is this not an up-grade to your shares of stock?That's how members would have profited, an increase in net worth of the stock!
Tom Ford
If my stock in Rosebrook is upgraded I will be first in line to know its value and then sell it back. And, yes, I am a stockholder. I can go to the Shrewsbury Pool, which is delightful and closer. I don't want to be a fly on the wall, I want to be there.
Shrewsbury, Crestwood, wherever! Call Rosebrook and ask them if the property value increased. If it did not, well why not? Seems to me that if the property value increases, the stock value increases, no?
Tom Ford
Please explain the purpose of selling stock in Rosebrook Realty if there is no way one can gain if it goes up?
What is done with this money paid by members all these years for Rosebrook stock?
Over the years how much unrefundable stock has Rosebrook sold and KEPT?
Besides an initiation fee and yearly membership dues, members have to buy stock. WHY???
Perhaps this is another rock to turn over. Why don't we just do that little thing?
If the TDD board decides that the $850,000 is not allowed to be included, the TDD board will be the one to tell THF they are out of luck recouping the expense with the TDD tax income.
They purchased that portion of the development knowing that Kohls did not need it to comply with city or county "parking spot" regulations. Kohls wanted additional land for parking or they would not agree to putting a store at that location.
How they get reimbursed for that expense is their problem. Deal is done with Crestwood Swim Club. They are not part of the TDD after the sale to the developer.
As an far as the sale of the parking lot to the city goes, that was Crestwood Swim Club property. Who else would sell it to the city?
Where is it written that Kohl's would not build if they did not acquire the old pool site? Who did they deal with??????? Where exactly can I find this information?
Which attorney advised THF to purchase the pool or that it was for sale?????????Who was the negotiator? Where can I find this information??????
If the city owns the parking lot, does the pool pay a prorated shared maintenance??????????
Please respond to these questions, as you seem to know enough answers to defend Rosebrook or I will be led to believe they are a deeply held secret, which becomes yet another issue.
Thanks
It seems that many times there are comments made without stating the details of the findings and I have been told - go look it up for yourself - it is public knowledge.
Also, according to Mr. Ford:
"You can also ask your Alderman for the numbers as well. In fact that's a very good starting point, as that's what we pay them to do, come back with the correct answers.
I can tell you that whenever I have asked for information on anything City related everyone at City hall has been extreemly helpfull. Give it a shot, I think you will be impressed with the results."
I have been expected to believe posts based upon other's knowledge of the "facts" without actually seeing the documentation. Why should you be different?
Have a nice day.
xlYes, if you are concerned about the pool paying for maintenance of the parking lot--go ask how the city obtained the parking lot...the pool GAVE it to the city. Satisfied?
Sold it to them for $1.00. What a deal! And the many, many, many years that the city used the parking lot for FREE. It is a shame that good will towards others and being a good neighbor is received with a slap in the face.
What a smart alec you are last blogger. No, sorry, not satisfied. Big deal, they gave it to the city - like this is the real issue. Don't you wish it were?
If your remarks represent the swim club, you would be better off to remain silent. This is definitely over your head.
Who negotiated the $1.00 amount of sale? You know, Just bet we know who can answer that, the one whose house is for sale now and was an alderman in Ward 2. There had to be a catch here and of course we now know what it was. Perhaps we should supeona the records related to this transaction. This can happen!!
The best way to put a puzzle together is to put it together.
But according to others, it was a big deal. Statements were made regarding the legality of the sale of the parking lot to the city. A statement was made that THF should it have been selling the parking lot to the city. Again, statements without facts. Imagine that!
you nit wits are confusing your parking lots. GO investigate. Dig and dig and dig. You think you are so smart but half of these stupid bloggers on this site can not even spell properly. Sad. Yawn.
Oh how classy you swimmers are. What is nit wit a 4th or 5th grade word? Must be where you finished. you
Na, na, na, na, na. Like was said, the more you swimmers yawn, the more we laugh.
Spelling, well we can't all be perfect now can we yada?
No need to "supeona the records". Just inquire at city hall to obtain the documentation.
My oh my the blogger at 4:24 is a bit testy aren't they? Probably could use a nice dip in the pool so he or she can relax. Oh, too bad, too busy searching through records and making false accusations to have time to swim.
Post a Comment
<< Home