"French kiss off" (a bit off topic, but worth the read.)
Ah, the French, "they are always there when they need us!". Please click on the header to be directed to a story reference the French helping us again!
What was the definition of insanity? Oh yes, doing the same thing over, and over, and expecting different results! Why do we bother?
Tom Ford
No.204
What was the definition of insanity? Oh yes, doing the same thing over, and over, and expecting different results! Why do we bother?
Tom Ford
No.204
posted by Crestwood Independent at 10:03
48 Comments:
What does this have to do with the stated reason for this blog to be published and that is:
"News and views of the City of Crestwood."
Unless it means Jim Murphy is not Irish but French.
Nothing, but did you read the header before you wrote (A bit off topic, but worth the read?)
That may answer your question for you, no? By the way let's all lay off Murphy, Fagan, Greer, Robinson, Madrid, Miguel, Myer's, and whomever else everyone is so intent on bashing.
It seems to me that there is nothing more anyone can say about any of them that is RELIVENT to the fact were broke!
The ship is sinking, and were running around re-aranging the deck chairs! We all should be helping to plug the leak. We all should start puting forth some ideas to save our City, no wallow in the past.
If you agree with that train of thought, let's hear some of those wonderfull ideas, if not, well please lay off the bashing, we have heard it all Lord knows how many times before, and it's not going to change one thing, or one persons mind, so why do we need it?
Tom Ford
" ALL EUROPEAN LIFE DIED IN AUSCHWITZ"
By Sebastian Vilar Rodrigez(*)
"I walked down the street in Barcelona, and suddenly discovered a terrible truth - Europe died in Auschwitz.
We killed six million Jews and replaced them with 20 million Muslims. In Auschwitz we burned a culture, thought, creativity, talent. We destroyed the chosen people, truly chosen, because they produced great and wonderful people who changed the world.
The contribution of this people is felt in all areas of life: science, art international trade, and above all, as the conscience of the world. These are the people we burned.
And under the pretense of tolerance, and because we wanted to prove to ourselves that we were cured of the disease of racism, we opened our gates to 20 million Muslims, who brought us stupidity and ignorance, religious extremism and lack of tolerance, crime and poverty due to an unwillingness to work and support their families with pride.
They have turned our beautiful Spanish cities into the third world, drowning in filth and crime.
Shut up in the apartments they receive free from the government, they plan the murder and destruction of their naive hosts.
And thus, in our misery, we have exchanged culture for fanatical hatred, creative skill for destructive skill, intelligence for backwardness and superstition.
We have exchanged the pursuit of peace of the Jews of Europe and their talent for hoping for a better future for their children, their determined clinging to life because life is holy, for those who pursue death, for people consumed by the desire for death for themselves and others, for our children and theirs.
What a terrible mistake was made by miserable Europe."
This was written by a Spanish gentleman who seems to hit the nail in the head. I pray that American's will see this and demand that this never be allowed to happen again!
Tom Ford
IDEA! Mayor leads Aldermen into supporting the placement of a GO bond issue on the Nov. ballot and throws all thoughts of his politcal future to winds as he gives all he's got to get it passed. Like Fagan did 14 months ago.
If on the ballot it might cause the lendors to not call in their note in till after the election.
The next problem would be the sale of the bonds, what company would want to sell them for the City with our history of defesement on the last bonds we sold? But it would seem to me that this is our only chance and it's a slim one at best.
You know, Roy could have still won the election just by running against Fagan's attachment to Greer and still supported the GO Bonds. He could have had the best of both worlds, the mayors job and the money to pay of the debt coming from the sale of these bonds before the others were killed. Dont forget the GO bonds were paid for with a sunseted property tax, not a sales tax, so our stream of tax dollars would not have been damaged.
Think we can try it again or do you have better plan?
The idea of the mayor leading the Alderman is a good one, but I am not so sure about the GO bonds.
As you know GO bonds tend to put interest dollars into out of town investers, not Crestwood. I know, were paying interest now, so what's your point? Well, I would like to keep the bucks in Crestwood.
Defesement was the only option as this City could have never come close to paying off the debt the new Police station would have brought us. In fact had we not had two revisions with the architects we would be up 1.5 million as we speak.
Some time ago I suggested that we ask for retired volunteer's to be an oversight committee on any City building project's. If we Had thoes in place at the time of the new Police station we would have known that the cost over runs would prohibit the building, period.
Alderman Roby pointed out not long ago that the way we ask for bid's is a sure way to pay retail, good for him! Now, do we continue to do the same thing when we send out bid requests, or do we have a knowledgeable group look at the scope of the job first?
Alderman Roby knows construction, we have retired plumbers, general contractors, electrical contractors, and, yes HVAC people in Crestwood who could be of great value to the City if only asked.
By the way, we also have some very good numbers people here, who like the above would love to help
if asked, so why not ask, it can't hurt, that's for sure.
What say you good citizens of Crestwood, any merit to this idea?
Tom Ford
If we pass a GO Bond, where will it go?
Sorry, I had to do it.
I fully understand!
Tom Ford
How can the ship be sinking with the new mayor and alderman miguel at the helm? they, along with good ole murphy have saved the city.
wow and it only took you 3 days to come up with that argument - now you're not against paying interest (after howling about paying interest for 3 years) now you just want to keep it in Crestwood. I'm pretty sure that Southwest Bank is not incorporated in Crestwood. Why don'tyou just admit it - you just followed murphy blindly when he told you the go bonds were bad. now your hand picked c/a is in favor of them. and the mayor if what the paper says is true. someday you will see that most of the issues murphy got you so worked up about were all just manipulation. ask anyone - that's the m.o.
Breathe deep ... come back to reality.
blogger 10:20 PM, August 19, 2006
When you make an argument, try to use facts. Broad assumption and rumuors can be entertaing, but that's about it. Furthermore, after periods and at the beginning of sentences, the first letter of a word is capitalized. Have a good weekend.
Taken from the city's website, www.ci.crestwood.mo.us -
"The City Administrator serves at the pleasure of the Mayor and Board of Aldermen and has responsibility for preparing the City's Operating & Capital Improvements Budgets, directing day-to-day operations, hiring and firing personnel, and serving as the Board's policy advisor. Crestwood's City Administrator is member of The International City/County Management Association (ICMA)—the professional and educational organization representing appointed managers and administrators in local governments throughout the world."
If I remember correctly, was not this administrator approved unanimously by the Board of Aldermen earlier this year?
I believe the reason so many comments that have been posted regarding the support of the defeated GO bonds, is because it was a solution to Crestwood's financial problems. The current Mayor was against this solution and did not endorse Prop 1.
That being said, I think since the Mayor did not support the GO bonds as a solution, he should have had a short term (having cash in the bank for the next 2-7 years) and a long term solution before taking such a stand. Now we don't have cash and have no solution on the table.
If I may ask, what would be a feasible solution(s)? (I'm not challenging you, I'm interested in possible ideas - thanks)
Tom,
The Frenchmen owned our gas pipelines in the U.S.A.
The French helped John Adams during the American Revolution.
The French educated Thomas Jefferson on the value of education, humanities, and the arts.
Thomas Jefferson created University of Virginia.
When a nation is educated, then there is a democracy for ALL.
Yes, the city is broke because everyone wants to drive BMW's.
Who drove the first BMW in Crestwood?
What are the majority of cars in Crestwood?
I like French Fries!!!
No, the city is still broke because of what poster 10:20 stated. The general obligation (GO) bonds would have taken care of this problem. The debt was there before the rein of BMW (poster 12:45)so that is a stupid attempt to deflect the issue, even thought Tom has asked we stop doing so. Poster 11:58 is right on the mark as well on this issue.
Poster 2:58 has it right, the elected officals of our City must put aside their personal future in politics and move FAST to have GO bond issue on ballot, with their 100% support. Do you hear that Mayor and Alderman Miguel and Nieder? All of you need to throw off the spell that Mr. Murphy cast on you over this issue in the past and either find an other way to fix the problem or admit you were duped by him earlier. We can forgive you for being duped. many of us have been there with you on that point.
There has not been any other solution offered by our leaders because there is no other solution. Mr. Myers knows this and says so in so many words in the newspapers. The property tax increase we took in April was a sham because if the increase had been used to buy GO bonds this thread of posts would not be needed.
P.S. the first BMW I saw on city hall parking lot was owned by Sandy Grave before she retired from Crestwood.
"The property tax increase we took in April was a sham because if the increase had been used to buy GO bonds this thread of posts would not be needed."
Then why did Trueblood support it?
Then why did Kelleher support it?
Then why did Duwe support it?
Nice spin, no cigar. Sandy Grave was not given an $830.00 car allowance like Greer was.
Greer was given an $830.00 car allowance by our illustrious board. He was also given two positions - C/A and Police Chief. With those two positions, he became extremely powerful yet was not elected by the people.
8:09 AM, August 20, 2006
While you call the BMW a "stupid attempt to deflect the issue", you then mention Sandy Grave drives a BMW?
Because they were trying to work with the new mayor and his administrator which is what this blog has been screaming for since last OCT.
The BMW question was "who drove the 1st one?", not who paid for it, answer given was correct Ms. Grave drove the 1st BMW and that was before she retired.
Still nice try.
Who was "trying to work with" this mayor and administrator? Work with or work against?
Poster 8:09AM... Sorry Bud you got your facts about half right. Yes, Sandy drove a BMW - A USED one and bought with money that did not even come from her salary at Crestwood.
Don's was shiny and brand new and paid for by you and me. You see, Don not only got his monthly BMW allowance, he also got Jimmy R. and Timmy T. to allow him to “CASH” in a chunk of his unused Vacation Time (Something that no other active Crestwood employee has ever been able to do.) to “Buy” a grossly over depreciated (It was depreciated as a police vehicle!) Dodge Intrepid (With sunroof and leather seats!) Guess who did the math on this deal? The former wonder girl finance queen Ms. Diana Madird – (Who was sleeping with Greer at the time!) You do the math on this one!
And buy-the-way the only debt that General Fund had when Greer took over after his little Coup was INTERNAL. The General Fund did not owe one penny to outside banks. Yes, there were some major internal accounting problems caused by an unfortunate health situation with the then Finance Officer Mr. Weubbbles, but the General Fund was not in debt to any outside entity.
The question was who drove the 1st BMW at City Hall, not if it was new or used or how it was paid for.
Interestingly enought, both Ms. Grave's used BMW and Mr.Greer's new BMW were paid for by Crestwood as both people were on the City payroll at that time.
So having gotten that behind us, what is the solution you think best for today and the future to, as Mr. Ford has put it, stop re-arranging the deck chairs and start to plug the leak in our sinking ship?
Would you support the selling of General Obligation bonds, contract our Police coveraqe to the County, or contract our Fire protection to a Fire District,or both, or sell entire Whitecliff Park to a private developer? Something else, anyone?
Only Greer was given a massive car allowance of $830.00.
Why did you want to sell Whitecliff? What about Rayburn or Crestwood Park? Did you get your ideas from Trueblood or are you Trueblood?
Ok, sell any park that brings enough money to take care of the debt, or sell them all. Does that cool your jets or are you still in a lets arrange the deck chairs mode of operation?
Sheesss!
Massive, nice term to use when people are trying to get over the past and let the fire die down, massive, like throwing gas on the fire. Why?
Sheess!
I just don't understand how there can still be a financial problem after passing proposition S. And no one has ever answered the question of how the ship can be sinking with the mayor and alderman miguel at the helm. now that we've raised taxes as they wanted, I'm going to vote no on any extra taxes. they should learn to live within their means.
what's the matter? you have no response to the statement that your own elected officials now are in favor of the bonds you worked to kill? you suddenly want to discuss spelling and capitalization? pitiful. how third grade. probably one of the reasons people being polled are telling the survey people they have a negative view of the mayor. i heard one of them told the survey they think the damage done by this mayor may not be repairable. even tom ford says the ship is going down. it's a sad day.
Attention 8:09AM 8/20 and 1:15 PM Bloggers.
OH NO! Don't Even Start with that Sandy Grave stuff. I was never anything at city hall but a worker for over 30 years. Who should care what kind of car I drive! You make it sound like I committed a felony!
I never was an elected official or held executive status like others who should have been made accountable for lawsuits or taking money from the city. The previous administration chose to hide the truth from citizens regarding my issues, because the truth was ugly and the powers that be chose to protect their own. In turn, I was treated like a second class citizen by the elected officials on the board of aldermen, who knew me for almost 25 years. And that is what I have to remember for my 30 plus years with the City. So you don't want to get me started by saying things on this blog that you don't know or don't want to know.
Therefore, whatever car I purchased before or in the future, or what I do in my personal life, is my personal business and has nothing to do with the City of Crestwood. The previous administration made their choice to protect the perps and hang the victim out to dry for things that needed to become public knowledge. BUT So much for politics!
My BMW was purchased by my Husband and I. It was 2 ears old when we purchased it and it was my husband's salary that paid for it SIR OR MADAME. Leave me out of this balony!
And NO, if you want to continue this charade about me, it will not be done and over with like the blogger stated.
The only reason I started working for Crestwood was because I needed a job and wanted to work close to my home so I could be close to my daughter,who was only two years old. That's the only reason I tried to get a job at City Hall. I couldn't afford to stay home. I ended up loving my job so much more than you will ever know. I still love the people in this city. And I have met many wonderful, fine and honest people here. But I have unfortunately met the worst. People who treated employees like dirt under their fingernails and people who were disrespectful. And NO, I am not a bit sorry to see them gone.
But if after working for over 30 years for the city, and having to leave under circumstances beyond my control and purchasing a BMW 2 years before I retired is to be made a big deal of, you need to look at those who took money from the city who took an oath to protect it and were not paying attention to where it was going. They made the big bucks, not me.
My name shouldn't even be brought up. It's those who chose to demean our city that caused the problems.
Don't get me involved in this blog or start throwing rocks at me or my family. It has been done before and it's time to stop.
THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT, IT IS A FACT AND AN EXPLANATION TO STOP THE INSANITY ON THIS BLOG.
And NO, don't start with the crass remarks which are only the lies and rumors of those who choose TO DENY what they know is the truth about a previous mayor and administrator. If you choose to reprimand, do it to the people who held this city in their hands and did nothing but create chaos and ill will, and those who really made off with the "mother load".
I worked for the City I loved and did what I had to do to get what I deserved in a lawsuit, and you would feel the same way under the circumstances. Enough said!
Thank you or your consideration.
Sandra Grave
Where to start? Well for one thing the French were a great nation at one time, but since the French revolution the have gone down hill fast!
The blogger states that education will bring democracy for all, and I agree. It's just that the French have contributed nothing but grief for 60 years, and counting.
Go bonds VS Prop. "S". Please understand that prop S will be a salvation for Crestwood when it kicks in, but that won't happen until Jan. / Feb. 07, because that's when the tax funds will find their way to the Crestwood coffers, until then, well we need funding.
Working with Mayor Robinson? Why yes I would be proud to work with him, or anyone else who had the betterment of Crestwood as an agenda, woulden't you?
"The ship is sinking", well, yes and no.What I ment by that statement is the fact that if we stay divided, it is, and will, but if we come toghether, we can plug the leaks, and get her back on course!
Police protection, and a fire district? Why? Do you really want to double your taxes for less protection? Don't believe me, ask a friend who has county police, and pick a fire district, or look up the costs on the St. Louis County web site.
Last but not least, what does anyones vehicle have to do with the present state of affairs? I drive a 2005 Ford F-150 pick up, so what? I don't think catty remarks about Mrs. grv`e, or Mr. Greer's rides will help us one bit, do you? I have asked before that we all please stick to the issues, the h*%l with who drives what, or why, it's water over the dam.
My Father had a favorite saying that I think will work for us as well "Who cares who killed Hitler as long as the S.O.B. is dead"! Think about it, who cares which politician pull's us out of this mess, as long as were out of it!
Tom Ford
Blogger 1:45 PM, August 20, 2006
Sorry. I didn't mean to be too abrupt. My apologies.
Yea... whoever is trying to compare Don Greer raping the taxpayers of Crestwood for his BMW and Sandy buying hers is desperate. I think we need to turn the details of this “Deal” over to the St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney. Something about this deal stinks.
I think someone was just answering the question who had the first bmw in crestwood. gee - so paranoid.
9:30 am 8/21 Paranoid? Not at all. Think about it! Why would anyone even ask the question "who had the first BMW". That question was irrelevent in the first place, but asked for a specific reason. Sounds like a setup to me! That's not being paranoid. Again, think about it. Why in the heck would anybody ask that question when it has nothing to do with anything on this blog. Then there are those who wonder why everyone doesn't sign their names to blog comments. All you have to do is mention a name and people start coming out of the woodwork.
Thanks again.
Sandy Grave
Prop S a salvation? I doubt it. It has been stated many times that Prop S was just a start in the right direction. The income from this will only pay down the current loan and line of credit loan with the bank. This assumes that the bank will extend the offer.
This will not help our current deficit in the budget. If you think Prop S is the complete answer for the city (our salvation) you are definately misguided.
Sandy,
so it was the question not the answer that upset you?
11:50 am 8/21 Exactly! The only person who would ask a question like that is someone who dilberately wants to pull my chain and he sure as heck did that!
And the person who answered the question fell right into the trap, which I am not really angry about. I am sure I know who asked the question. He thinks he is in a court room where as a lawyer he can ask questions to catch someone off guard. This guy knows how to press buttons. He is a lawyer, and is known for getting very thirsty at the wrong time. Mr. Greer in his infinite wisdom covered it up this offense, like he covered up other offenses. But this person refuses to admit what he did because it is too ugly. Pure and simple.
I am sorry that I vented my anger on this blog. Especially since I have enough in my personal life going on and I am not a part of Crestwood City Hall any longer.
I respectfully ask you for only one thing. To pray for my husband who has been diagnosed with cancer. I have been thrown another hurdle which is much more important to me than anything else, and makes me realize even more what is really important.
I would appreciate your forgiveness if I become upset on this blog at times, or "over the top". My days are over at city hall, and I am just sorry that I couldn't stay until I was 65 years old, which is tomorrow. I love most of the people in this city. I had so much fun and tried to help people. It was a privilege to be there to meet so many good residents. They all know who they are.
Just remember one thing, if you are a member of the board of aldermen or a mayor, you have a responsibility to do the right thing. Everybody knows right from wrong and how to be kind to others.
If you know that a person has always been a good employee and is a resident of the city, and someone with power tells you to act in a way that is against your humanity to that person, don't listen; instead act like a civil human being and don't shun and ignore that person. That person was me and I had so much respect for the mayor and all the board of aldermen members at that time. Don Greer told the board members it would be a mortal sin to act human to me and most did exactly what he said. It is pretty hard to get shunned by people who have known you for 25 years and really know the truth about what happened. That has hurt me more than anything else. And I don't really know if I will ever get over the hurtful feelings it has given me.
Thanks for your consideration.
Paranoia! Talk to the City Attorney. He may be able to tell you why none of the Board of Aldermen members talk to you.
3:43 PM I asked the City Attorney that question a long time ago saying to him by telecon to his office, "is there some reason why the board of aldermen members will not speak to me?" "Is there any reason why I cannot speak to them?" Mr. Golterman said "No,there is not a problem that I know of". So I tried it on several occasions, especially with two board members that I adored so much. Dr. LaBore ran from me in the store, not once but three times like he was scared out of his wits. Pat Duwe excused herself on the phone telling me she was having company and never bothered to say, "but I can call you back". Those are two very hurtful ones.
So, if Rob Golterman didn't think it was wrong, the only person who controlled the board of aldermen's every move was Mr. Greer who has a way of trying to scare people by making up things to get what he wants. As much as he kept the truth from getting out, protecting the person who made him King, that is the way I see it.
Sir or Mame, don't you think that as bad as I felt, I would try to find out the reason for this hurtful thing on my own. I indeed wanted an explanation for the actions of people on that Board of Aldermen who should have been as outraged as I; instead they sided with the enemy and chose to make me look bad. Greer is the only one who had complete control over that board. He is the one who would say and do whatever was necessary to get people to do what HE wanted. And he succeeded.
Sandra Grave
Re: Long term debt - Line of Credit - Missouri Constitution
Taken from the city's website:
"Page 10 CITY OF CRESTWOOD JOURNAL October 11, 2005
Page 10 October 11, 2005
...Rob Golterman, City Attorney, stated that he does not believe the City is in violation of the state constitution and as far as he knows the State has not done anything in regard to this issue."
1:48 am 8/22 Thank you, I applaud you for taking the time to investigate the facts as presented.
You are very welcome!
It is assumed the city attorney in municipalities is responsible for making sure the BOA acts within its boundaries and does not break any laws. This is why they are hired and paid. Very well paid. When unsure, these city attorneys should research prior to making a determination.
When the ordinances were read regarding wording for Prop 1 and Prop S, was there any comment from the local city attorney as to possible conflict? Was there any research? I do recall how quickly the city attorney rendered his opinion as to the legality of the Charter Committee's meeting, which premature meeting date was in possible conflict with the Charter and was questioned by many residents and many on the BOA. Was this researched? It continues to be amazing and questionable how anyone could approve the wording of the language on these ballot entries. If this is an example of legal expertise with which we are dealing, along with the ludicrous settlements of former employees, one can only speculate on how much we can be expected to rely on from city attorneys whose political past may or may not determine renderings.
Surely, it would behoove the entire BOA to clarify expectations as they could well be haunted by their decisions which are based on legal input. Crestwood is not in a position to deal with ineptness nor political persuasion when it comes to legalities. It is not a shared responsibility when Aldermen are advised improperly, if and when they are.
The city attorney said the loan did not violate the constitution when taken out LAST YEAR. At that time, he cautioned that might not be the case in 2006. Here are the comments of frank myers in last week's call newspaper:"The first legal hurdle is the Missouri Constitution has a requirement to gain voter approval for any debt over 13 months," Myers said. "So to use a fiscal general obligation bond to do this, the Missouri Constitution says you've got to have specific voter approval. We looked at the ballot language Friday with legal counsel on what was approved with Prop S because we've got to meet this Missouri constitutional requirement. So we need to do that.
"What we were also told by our legal counsel is that they're not recommending another .. they have some concerns about us continuing to do what we've been doing with Southwest Bank of just rolling over the debt because with Prop S passing ... we basically created a means to paying all this debt off over time. So we've got to work through this issue."
apparently golterman has been consistent in saying there is a problem this year with multi-year debt, even if the loan last year went through.
2:40 PM, August 22, 2006
THere may a problem but is it illegal? I'm hearing yes and no.
Poster from 1:35 PM, August 22, 2006
Excellent points. That was a well thought out entry. I don't agree with everything, but you presented a clear and thought provoking argument. Thank you.
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