The Charter mailing, or what's wrong with this picture !!!!!!
Well this is the best bit of skulldudegery I have seen in a very long time! I go to my mail box expecting who knows what, and you know what I found? Well it was a book on the charter with a front page written by none other than the charter commission!
On the back page of this missive was the Cities return address, and bulk mailing permit.
Wonderful you say, well this seems to be quite a bit slanted to voting for the charter changes, and it looks like the City put it out! Now what about the loyal opposition? Will we be allowed to use the City presses, the bulk mail permit to send out our views, in a word no!
I will tell you now, this town is getting out of hand! We need some answers from these people, and we need them quick! When you get your mailing please give us your responses here on the blog, and send them to the entire board, I did, and I will continue to do so until I get the correct answer!
While Elliott Davis is at it he can look into this sham as well!
Tom Ford
NO.241
On the back page of this missive was the Cities return address, and bulk mailing permit.
Wonderful you say, well this seems to be quite a bit slanted to voting for the charter changes, and it looks like the City put it out! Now what about the loyal opposition? Will we be allowed to use the City presses, the bulk mail permit to send out our views, in a word no!
I will tell you now, this town is getting out of hand! We need some answers from these people, and we need them quick! When you get your mailing please give us your responses here on the blog, and send them to the entire board, I did, and I will continue to do so until I get the correct answer!
While Elliott Davis is at it he can look into this sham as well!
Tom Ford
NO.241
posted by Crestwood Independent at 18:55
85 Comments:
The City used the Crestwood Connections to promote voting for the Police Palace. They also recently used it to promote voting for the last tax increase.
Was this mailing a Crestwood Connections piece? (I have not received it yet)
Not a comment on the charter changes as much as a question. In the past there were claims that voters were not getting enough information about ballot issues. Is this a case of two much information?
Havent gotten mine yet.
Not from "Crestwood Connections," but paid for by the City? Mailed by the City?
Front page is a letter from the charter commission, looks official as all get out, as if the City was behind the changes all the way!
You must see this to understand where I, and several others who oppose these changes are coming from. I want the City to flatly state their support of this, or their lack there of, because at this point it looks as though their behind it!
To much information? Nope, one sided information, yes! Please look at this travisty and give us your response then.
Tom Ford
As of tomorrow, October 31, 2006, and as taxpaying residents of the City of Crestwood, it is hereby suggested that as of the beginning of business on October 31, 2006 the Attorney General of the State of Missouri be notified via dedicated phone call from Roy Robinson, Mayor of Crestwood,MO and witnessed by at least 5 Crestwood residents not affiliated with the Charter Board, nor employed by the City of Crestwood, and then followed by a certified overnight letter to cover a matter of extreme importance to the residents of the City of Crestwood. This call is to ask for an exception due to time restraints for immediate consideration of a travesty of judgement made by a 9 member "appointed" Charter Board without permission of the Board of Aldermen and without approval to spend the money, approximately $4000.00, necessary to print and distribute one 24 page pamplet endorsinig all changes to the Crestwood Charter so that residents of the city of Crestwood, not affiliated with the 9 member charter board, be awarded the exact same priviledges to address the public, and whatever money it takes to present and advise Crestwood residents imnmediately the fact that the 24 page mailer's content and cost was not city approved and does not represent anyone beyond the 9 member board and was without disclaimer. This pamplet with a city hall return address and postal code was not shown to the Crestwood Board of Aldermen, our governing body, nor was the cost divulged, nor was the cost approved as a budget item even though these amendments have been prepared for over a year in readiness for the ballot. It is further suggested that it be determined that both the city clerk and the city administrator and his assistant may or may not have known the procedures for the spending of city money for this 24 page pamplet and therefore could not have made the necessary effort to assure its legality or obtain proper approval from proper parties. However, at this time and for this reason all parties should be thoroughly questioned as to exactly why they did not take the initiative knowing city budget procedures require advance approval for the spending of city money expecially during a time when the city is running on a Bank Letter of Credit.If the Mayor and Aldermen did not have prior knowledge of this publication and mailing, then the residents of the city of Crestwood prefer that the amendments BE STRICKEN FROM THE BALLOT until the semblance of legality and normal procedures can be followed. Such measures should be considered an emergency and action taken immediately, offered to the press immediately and all news outlets immediately notified. If a 2nd mailing by the other 11,000 residents of the city cannot happen in plenty of time for the election on November 7,2006, be it said that the reverse 911 option is not a satisfactory resolution. The Charter Amendments,thererore should become mute until such time as the public can realize this publication had no disclaimer on it and that the city of Crestwood is not in the habit of telling its residents how to vote.
After reading the mailing, this is much ado about nothing in my honest opinion. As a voter I appreciate the information as it allows me to know exactly
the Charter changes that I am voting on. Someone told me that the City Attorney publicly indicated at a Board of Aldermen Meeting that the City would be doing this mailing as it was necessary for the City to indicate to the voters what the Charter proposed Charter amendments are and no ojection was raised by the residents. No complaint occurred when the Commission 2000 survey was mailed by the City to all Crestwood residents and businesses so that the Commission 2000 Report could be prepared. Wasn't there also a survey of residents done at City expense for the original City Charter? At least that's what been reported on this blog by a self identified member of the original Charter Commission.
I have a question for everyone - the document is supposed to be 20 or more pages. Do you think the average citizen in Crestwood will actually read all of it?
Why don't you learn how to write poster 7:49 AM? I have not yet received the mailing and I will judge for myself whether or not it is appropriate when I read it. However, I don't need someone to tell me what to think. The City has been making the Commission 2000 Final Report and the original City Charter available free of charge to residents for years. I recall that the City also provided voters with information about the annexation issue which was on the ballot in both the newly annexed part of Crestwood and the City itself. The City also provided residents information about Proposition C, Proposition 1 and Proposition S using the mailed Crestwood ConnectionsNewsletter. No one complained about those things as I remember it. I also remember how some citizens howled that they did not know what they were voting on when the Capital Improvements Fund sales tax extension was on the ballot. Someone always moans and complains about ballot language or something else. Maybe we should do away with voting in Crestwood on local issues.
I received it and it doesn't tell me how to vote on the propositions. It is only informational and neither pro nor con. It could have been put in Crestwood Connections but that would have been just as long then. Get real people.
Does it make recommendations?
In the document "Information on the Proposed Charter Amendments to be Put Before Crestwood Voters on November 7, 2006", the charter review committee makes recommendations.
Information on the Charter has had months and months to be put into the monthly Crestwood newsletter. An innovative idea!!! :)Each month it could have covered a different issue/change. A $4000 mailing handily mailedust before the election by 9 people with no disclaimer is a tad sneaky and lacks integrity. Oh boy, does it lack integrity. Sneaky seems to have followed these Board members over from the former admindistration. However, this is the new Crestwood and we do not take excessive spending without approval without getting very upset. Got that. Very Upset. When it was mentioned that residents would be informed it did not mention to the tune of $4000 and 24 pages and without board approval. It had no parameters whatsoever.
Yep, no one said in May 06 that info to the public would cost $4000 and be in a 24 page pamplet, and apparently no one at city hall was creative, honest or frugal enough to follow the intent of the residents by using fiscal restraint. Now we have the same old same old, politics as usual. This Charter Commission has done no more than devestate a Charter that was perfectly suitable as is and insult the former board of 11 years ago who did an outstanding job. Plus they have spent my money trying to implement Charter changes that they, as puppets, were charged to change by the former administration, which practically destroyed our community.
Can someone please re-run the Prop S vote. I no longer trust anyone at city hall with my money. And I think it is high time we hired a new city attorney, and advised the City admidnistrator that the BOA is the "final answer." If he can't get this through his head, then off he goes. I am trying to imagine a week in this city that goes by that some form of chicanery does not take place. So someone up there better get a good firm grip. The City Attorney, City Administrator, City Clerk, Asst. City A. and the Development person are "employees." Got that, employees. The final answer is the BOA. Clear!
If you no longer trust City Hall, then maybe you should vote yes on Prop.5 which lowers the percent of signatures needed for a RECALL petition of Mayor or Alderman from 20% to 15%.
poster 12:35, are you just as upset over the $8000 spent that did not follow our Purchasing Policy for the Alderman get together?
Things just keep getting more complicated and more EXPENSIVE. I would have much preferred having a townhall meeting with the original Charter members there to answer questions as to why they felt the changes to the Charter were necessary. Why do we need censure? We had a Mayor a few years back that probably needed to be more than censured but he was allowed to 'quit' rather than take his medicine. So now we need STRONGER measures when we never even used what we had available to us then? I would have liked to hear why those who want these changes explain their reasoning to the common person. But I guess that particular group has more clout than we realized. They got the city of Crestwood (who is trying to cut back on spending to pay for this). I felt that the $10,000. or so needed to take these changes to a vote was a waste and now add all this printing and mailing expense to that. Somebody really needs to start doing the math. But if the changes are voted in, just think those 11 of so residents will be very happy and isn't that what's important? Who cares about the other 11,000 residents? Politics as usual. I'm ashamed of each and every one of our aldermen for voting for this to happen.
Have Elliott Davis look into all the monies spent on Jerry Miguel's accessing the documents at the Law firms over the past year. Also, while Elliot is at it, how much money was spent on the various audits demanded by the same folks who are screaming about the mailings...I have no problem with the mailing. It is informative.
You don't think the city needed audits? You don't think the documents needed review? Did you see the legal bills? I did. Do you know all about them? I do. Did you read the audits, I did.
Whew, talk about apples and oranges. You are certifiably nuts.
Talk about things you know about. okay. You sure seem to have a lot of know it all for a n o nothing.
The facts behind all this stuff you mention is all recorded fact and your bad mouthing does nothing more than point out what a ill informed person you are.
But, if this makes you feel good. Charge ahead.
I have been asked, what's it all about ? What's the big deal ?
Well, let me count the ways. First of all in May of 2006 a question was asked by Alderman Miguel as to whether the citizens would be informed about these changes. City attorney Golterman assured the board they would be informed, he stated that a "mailing" would go out to each household in Crestwood prior to tne election.
He also stated that in his opinion the BOA need not vote on it (BOA minutes, May, 2006.)
Fast forward to today, a 25 page document costing over $4,000.00 plus postage is sent to all residents as he said it would be.
Now comes the very interesting part. How did it come to pass that the front page is a "letter" from the Charter commission on it? You flip to the back page and it's got the City return address, and bulk mailing permit on it! In my opinion this looks like a blatent attempt to make the changes look as though the City endorses them.
Any elderly resident who sees this will think that the City must be behind the changes, and those who do not read it will feel the same.
Point being that either this is a highly crafted attempt by the Charter Commission, and their willing accomplisis to confuse the voting public, or it's a goof of a magnitude un-seen before in Crestwood! You be the judge there.
There are many reasons to vote NO on any Charter change, and I will list them before election day. But if you ever needed a reason to vote against anything, this is it! An item sent out under the cover letter of a committiee that was formed illegally, by a failed former Mayor bent on destroying his opponent, and don't forget the people were hand picked by him!
Change the Charter? NO! Fire the committee and start over with one formed leagelly under the tenants of the Charter with input from the origional Charter committee, and Crestwood citizens, YES!
Tom Ford
who of you screamed the loudest about not being informed on what the money for the extention of the sunset on the capital improvements tax ballot? ALL of you did!
Now you get the information that on this very blog people were asking for and Ms. Duchild herself in a meeting requested the city send and it's not the right thing. Look, these Props. are going to fail just out of voter dis-interest unless we scream so much that people read the info and realize there is nothing bad about most of the changes and vote for them. As to "ileagle" committees, take it to court if you really think it's "ileagle" after the election if you dont like the results of the election.Like if something passes.
6:36 PM blogger: From your post I gather that you didn't know that the Charter states That a review committee shall be formed every 10 years, not 9 but 10!
Now if you "form" one sooner than the the Charter calls for, is that leagal? I doubt it my friend.
Go to court, great idea, why not force the City to spend more money we don't have?
I do hope you will understand what your voting for, that is if you vote!
Tom Ford
The contents of the pamphlet is very informative and detailed to say nothing of the incredible timing. It puts me in mind of the last minute flyer that was passed around in Ward 1 before the April election.
One question is on my mind. The nine people on the cover letter were appointed by then mayor-elect Fagan. To the best of my personal recollection, those nine people he appointed were personal friends. Did we have a fair representation of the four wards? I agree with those of you who say no matter what is presented there are the complainers. However; the distribution of those 9 didn't seem to represent the four wards evenly. Of course, Mayor Fagan's personal friends were mostly from his ward. I am sure everyone receiving this pamphlet will assume this is the the city's encouraging them to vote for the changes? This reminds me of the last aldermatic election where one aldermanic candidate passed out a pamphlet against his opponent saying he was for eminent domain, which he was not. However, it won him his aldermanic position. Ironically, this same alderman is on the list of 9 who was appointed by Mayor Fagen who wants the changes to the Charter. What a shame this man isn't willing to tell the public why he wants these changes. Didn't the aldermen vote on this pamphlet? Oh, I forgot, our City Attorney said we didn't need to do that. Aren't we lucky our new Mayor has such faith in his city attorney? I guess that's why they refer to him as Boss Hogg.
Did I miss something?
Weren't the Charter Commission members all appointed by Mayor Roy Robinson?
Yes, they were re-appointed by Mayor Robinson, that is correct, sometime late Spring, early Summer 2005.
I wonder what Elliot Davis will have for us this evening?
For anyone who cares to see the truth, elliot davis is airing his story on crestwood tonight!
This was an Elliot Davis whitewash. There was nothing about the Mr. Myer's violations of the purchasing policy.
poster 7:48, do you recall that Roy appointed his personal friends to committees and boards when he was elected? Was that not ok with all his supporters? Isnt that part of the spoils of victory? Why the double standard?
That is right, Roy did reappoint the members of the Charter Commission after he was elected. I guess he was happy with the selections Mayor Fagan had made or he would have changed them like he did other boards.
Also, on the Elloit Davis story tonite, I thought Roy was the spokesman for the City, why wasnt he interviewed? Where was he?
Whether you are in favor of these changes, not in favor, or don't know and don't care, I thought the City of Crestwood was bound by law not to use taxpayer dollars to promote or work against any political campaigns.
I am sickened that taxpayer dollars were used for this publication, which went directly into my trash.
Did the Mayor and City Administrator approve this? I'm sure someone must be responsible for authorizing it.
Did Elliot blow the lid off the pool deal last night?
No. YOU PAID FOR IT didn't blow the lid off anything last night except that the City Administrator did not know that there is a Commission 2000 report.
2:51 PM 11/1 Blogger. Yeah! A Crestwood 2000 report that was done in house. Now 6 years later, nothing has changed. Frank Meyer never knew about it because that report meant nothing for 6 years and therefore, wasn't important enough to make reference to cause nothing was ever done.
So, therefore, after 6 years to get Crestwood 2000 off the ground, producing "zip", Frank Meyer persued an avenue of his own. Frank Meyer was never hired to be a freaken mind-reader or claravoyant. Try blaming the people involved 6 years ago.
Mr. Ford,
One minute you say the city doesn't provide us with ballot issue explanations and now you are saying they are sending us too much information and you are griping because it has the city bulk mail stamp on it meaning they saved money over other methods. Well pray tell, do you have a flock of carrier pigeons that could have gotten us the information sooner and cheaper? Or maybe you were going to bring them personally to everyones door at no charge. I am glad to hear that your time has no value or perhaps you are under the misconception that the US Postal Service employs free labor? Personally, I am glad to have something before the election although it appears to be more lengthy that the Charter Book itself.
Perhaps Mr. Ford could have arranged for one of the "black helos" he is always referring to to drop the charter mailing from above to unsuspecting Crestwood residents while they sleep rather than employing the US postal service...
I find it disheartening that all the hard work of the folks concerning the Commission 2000 report was totally ignored - but look back at who was in charge at the time. You know they read it. It wasn't that it was good-point it didn't fit the agenda of the 'group' in charge at that time. So work work work and what'll you get - ignored! Any of our present aldermen who were in power at that time, didn't they read it? Or didn't it suit their agenda either? How many citizens in Crestwood have their city's interest at heart rather than some personal agenda? Probably not too many.
5:00pm October 31st one question!
You are a resident of Crestwood and you have never been interested enough in our Charter to have read it? The pamplets delivered yesterday are the original charter plus all the changes the nine people Fagan appointed made changes. Are these nine the most informed about all things 'Charter' If we stop term limits perhaps we can get some of our older aldermen who did so much for our city to come back in and stay forever. Just like Bryd! This is so liberalism, isn't the definition of liberalism a social disease?
If you want informed voters then you should have no problem with the information the City sent each voter. If you want the voters to stay in the dark and believe that all changes be defeated because of who was on the Committee or who appointed them, then your going to be against the sending of the information.
The orginal charter commission members ran for the office, per state law, what made them any more experts than the current commission members? Some of the orginal members no longer even live in Crestwood.
The Charter changes should be voted on based on the merit of what they offer, not the political mess this whole proccess has been turned into.
To 6:36 p.m. Oct 31st Anonymous:
Yes, Ms. Duchild did ask for information to be sent. However, she also requested that the changes be made in red rather than blue so that they would stand out. She also requested that information be sent out far enough in advance of the election date so that people who were interested would have time to digest the information, form questions, and have an opportunity (say a town hall meeting) to have their questions answered. Sending out a partial charter at the 11th hour with no references as to which changes correspond to which proposition is not my idea of properly informing the residents. What is especially galling is that this document is no different than the one used when the commission presented its recommendations to the board back in December of 2005. So the question remains, why wait till the last minute? Why wasn't this sent out weeks ago, when absentee voters could have used it? If the goal was to inform the voters, why sit on the document for months? It makes no sense.
I’m glad that bloggers have commented on the prior ballot issues, because their comments help support the argument I have been making for months. All of those ballot issues have at least one thing in common: they started out as ordinances which were presented to the board (sometimes by a recommending committee), debated, sometimes amended, and ultimately voted on by the board before they were presented to the voters. According to the legislative procedures outlined in the charter, this is the correct way to treat ordinances. However, the city attorney determined that the proposed charter amendments were exempt from the charter’s instructions on legislative proceedings. His interpretation of the procedures for amending the charter excluded any debate on the charter ordinances, which resulted in having the board pass the ordinances as a required formality (the final step in a fait accompli) rather than allowing the board to do their jobs as elected representatives and debate the ordinances to determine their merit, and if necessary, to amend them.
In essence, the board (our elected representatives ) was instructed to bypass legislative procedures so that a committee of nine appointed (not elected) people could get their amendments to the voters. Any time an issue is brought before the voters, elected representatives must first debate and vote on it. A lot of people have said what’s the big deal, let the voters decide. Yes, let the voters decide, but only after their elected representatives have debated the ordinances, have followed legislative procedures, and have been allowed to voice their opinions on the merits of the ordinances so that they can cast their “aye” or “nay” votes as outlined in the charter.
The city attorney stated that the board was obligated to put the charter commission’s recommendations on the ballot, but one of their recommendations will be missing from the ballot: a proposed clause change which should have been included in the language for Prop. 2 was left out of the ordinance for that proposition. If the board is obligated to put the commission’s recommended changes on the ballot, why is there no concern from the city that part of the proposed amendment language is not on the ballot?
As I have said before, if the charter contained language mandating the board members to vote “yes” on the charter amendment ordinances, and if the charter included this special exception in the voting procedures section of the charter, then I would accept the city attorney’s interpretation. But the language is not there. The charter contains no language distinguishing charter ordinances from any other ordinance on which the board votes.
Martha Duchild
Red ink costs too much so they used blue ink. Complete Charter would have cost too much to print and mail so they mailed the parts effected by the ballots.
The founding Charter commission are the ones to blame for wording the charter in a manner that forced Aldermen to vote for the changes the 2nd commission, not the other way around.
Vote against the changes if you feel that strongly about them, but for me I'm going to vote to lower the percent of signatures needed on petitions for recall, etc! I want more say in my government, not less, like Liberals always want.
Red ink costs more than blue ink???
Huh???
If Mr. Ford had arranged for a "black helo" to drop these you can bet it would NOT have had that letter from the Charter Commission on the front page!
Information is great. Information when it looks like the City supports this change, stinks! And that folks, is just what it looks like, and you know it!
9:39 PM blogger: Are you trying to tell us you don't know what I ment? Don't you think that's being kind of lame? You jnow exactly what I was talking about, and I think you know why I said it, if not, stop by the house and I'll break out the flash cards.
"The founding Charter commission are the ones to blame for wording the charter in a manner that forced Aldermen to vote for the changes the 2nd commission, not the other way around."
Not necessarily. The issue does not come down to blame but how the question is interpreted.
2:55 PM Nov. 2nd. Bravo Martha! Well said and so right on as usual.
Good work once again.
The Charter change: "Designed to keep certian people in power, or to help certian people re-gain power"
Told to me by a friend today, makes sense dosen't it.
Vote NO on all five!
Tom Ford
4:13 PM Nov. 2 Vote as you wish and vote as you want, but putting out that Charter pamphlet a week before the election is really showing residents you think we are all stupid and "buttoned in the back".
By doing this city-wide advertisement to support the charter amendments, the city is telling the voters that the mayor and board of aldermen are endorsing these amendments. So why place the issue on the ballot then. Just change the darn thing!!!! You are telling us what you want instead of asking us to make a choice.
How thoughtful to send this document out, city-wide. Too bad you didn't do it for the 14 million dollar police facility. Instead they placed that on a ballot but left out the most important words, "a 14 million dollar police facility". Why should people even bother to vote anymore.
You can't impress residents by placing something on the ballot but telling them in a pamphlet to vote their way. People in Crestwood are not stupid nor are they a bunch of sheep who will just go with it.
First of all, those charter review members were stupid enough to think they could shove it down our throats a week before election day? Why would anyone feel like they have a choice?
This just confirms my theory that this administration will fall and the Faganites will once again come on to the scene with their political agendas.
I can't believe that the mayor allowed all of those Fagan-Friendly people to continue to be part of this Charter Review Commission.
If you see the names, you will see that everyone of Mr. Fagan's supporters were appointed to that committee by Mr. Fagan before he left office, and Roy never changed them. Mr. Fagan, dear and close personal friend of Mr. Greer appointed that committee. He did it for a reason even though the time frame was in question. However, the city attorny's interpretation was held as gospel. It's all about stragedy my friends and if these charter amendments go through, you will see how this stragedy plays out like a finely tuned instrument.
These amendments are just another way to keep people in office until they are so old and feeble minded they will go along with everything; plus they definitely want a way to Recall this mayor so they played around with that language too; plus the issue of how many signatures are allowed on a petitiion, that had to be changed. After all, those signatures were what got rid of the chance for a 14 million dollar police department. The signature language on petitions definitely had to be played around with. All you do is get your buddies and friends to serve on a commission and you have it made.
Oh Yeah, I can see them all lined up now if these amendments get passed. You know what it's called, it's called Politics and has nothing to do with the good people in this town..
They are up to no good and Mr. Greer started it and Mr. Golterman allowed the Charter to be reviewed before the proper time frame. Oh those lawyers, they know how to roll those dice - you bettcha.
Who knows, we may even get the Wizard (Lizard) of Oz back again to be city administrator. How wonderful.
FYI, Breeding selected most of the Charter Commission when he was acting Mayor, I guess you think he's in the deal with Fagan to?
So far with the exception of term limits, no one has presented to me a reason to vote no, execept they dont like who appointed the members or who the memebers of the Committe were, or when they thought the review was to be held. What is wrong with allowing the people of Crestwood more control over the govt. by reducing the number of signatures? Are you a liberal and therefore dont want non elected people to have a say in their govt.?
The only liberals I see are the ones that proposed all of the taxes over the past 6 years and those who wanted to spend millions for a police station. We have an aquatic center, an extension of the capital improvements tax, prop S, and one of the highest sales tax rates allowed. Big government and big taxes.
Must be a lot of liberals in Crestwood as all the items you listed had to be approved by the voters.
The citizen petition did not stop the police station fyi. The final cost projections came in over budget due to the rising cost of steel. That stopped the project. Speaking of Elliot Davis, I was surprised to see Roger Anderson interviewed. Wasn't he one of the mayor's original supporters? Now he opposes the city administrator?
FYI Richard Breeding appointed members to the charter review committee? Richard Breeding appointed who he was told to appoint. Or I guess you think he came up with these people on his own. I guess you believe in Santa Clause too!
The forces of evil lurk just around the corner. Wait until you see what is going to happen after December.
Too bad for those of you who see with eyes wide shut.
poster 11:22, be very careful, there might be liberals and people who can cast spells over people out there. Be very careful.
Do you really believe that Breeding was told who to appoint? Who told him? What magic power did they have over Breeding that turned him into a mind numbed robot?
You are all starting to sound like Ross Peroit supporters, handgranades with bad haircuts. Black helo's kidnapping his daughter,,etc.
I can believe in Santa Claus because i see him every where before I could swollow some of the stuff you guys believe is true. Since your in the know, tell us now what is going to happen after Christmas, or is your crystal ball broken, again?
The citizen's petition asked the board to reconsider the lease of space in Crestwood Plaza for the temporary relocation of city hall operations at $3,333.00 per month. If the board members wish to take the stance that it was the rising cost of steel that killed the project, so be it.
Roger Anderson was one of the mayor's original supporters. From what I got out of the interview, he opposes the continuing spending.
As far as 8:54AM's comments, a lot of these taxes were passed under the guise or mantra that these things would be good for our community. From what I can see, city hall taxed and spent to the point where city hall and the public works property is being held as collateral. No, not a lot of liberals in Crestwood, just a lot of liberal spending.
sounds like the citizen's petition was a lot of hoo ha for nothing. if they had let the process proceed naturally, the project would've died at the point when the board had to approve the costs and the final projection was over budget as the previous ones had been. you might even say the citizens were stirred up by an agitator for his own purposes and to create an atmosphere of animosity.
Wasn't it Roger Anderson who Elliot Davis said spearheaded the petition for the State Audit? How much unbudgeted money did that cost the city? $26,000
4:35 PM, November 03, 2006
Nonsense. The board was gung ho to build that police station. Tom Fagan's last act was to sign the lease.
5:10 blogger
You are absolutly right. AND Mayor Robinson begged that Board that night not to take any action until after he was sworn in and they did it anyway. Thank our lucky stars Westfield let us out of it.
Blogger 4:35 PM, November 03, 2006
If the board likes to use the excuse of high costs of steel, by all means. If those board members wish to tell the 2200+ citizens who signed the petition that they were ignored, then by all means. The petition signers names are available, and each board member can contact them.
I guess if the Board is "gung ho" then they cant be blaimed if the voters agreed with them and supported them with their vote.
You really need to get a copy of the Commission 2000 Report and read it.
In it was a list from the Citizens which included, better City Parks, improved City Swimming Pool an improved City Hall and Police Station that the Commission said was wanted and needed. It looks that the elected officals were doing all along what the people wanted based on the Report.
Now for the record, who appointed the people fo this Commission? Was it Richard Breeding, or Tom Fagan or Jim Roberston? Nope it was Jim Brasfield. And was Greer the C/A then, nope, it was Kent.,,But I am sure that some of you think Greer was behind it all casting spells and what not. Wow!
Poster 12:28 Look read again what Commission 2000 said the people wanted, it wasnt under the guise of anything. The voters knew what they were voting for, they were mislead, they hoped for a never ending flow of Sales Tax dollars from the Mall that they and the elected offical had been lead to believe would never end. And who was the Mayor at this time, it was Jim Brasfield, and who was the C/A who hid the real finanical condition of the City, as was pointed out in the State Audit? It wasnt Greer, it was Kent L.
This may not be the history many readers want to hear or believe, but take a look at the Report, get the minutes of that time and dig through the local newspapers archives. It is there for you.
So what are you saying, blame Jim Brasfield?
By the way, if you read the Commission 2000 report, improved city hall and police facilities are way down on the wants of Crestwood citizens. City hall facilities were #12 on the list of Crestwood priorites.
5:39 PM, November 03, 2006
Can you tell me why the city left out the words (or something like them) "new police facility" off of the ordinance and ballot language for the extension of the capital improvements tax? Were they worried about a world-wide shortage of ink? Why did they leave that off of there? Yes, I know the newspapers mentioned it and the Crestwood Connections mentioned it once, but why were those words left out? Maybe an investigation should be started to look into this.
I am saying that if you want to blame someone, blame the correct people.
I understand. Thank you for your entry.
Poster 6:00 Yea, lets start an investigation into why people in Crestwood, get the local papers and Connections and still claim they didnt know what they were voting for. COME ON!
How about this, since this was such a mischarage of justice, lets vote for Prop4 which reduces the per cent of signatures to 15% to get a referendum on the ballot, let make the ballot read, should the Sunset of the Capital Improvements Tax be changed to expire 1/1/07? If extention of the Sunset is such a burr in everyones throat, lets vote to make the Sunset now.
Like that idea, I do, it would be a reduction in taxes, brought about by the common man and would fix correct an error.
Yes, I really think an investigation should be started. Why, oh why were the words "new police facility" omitted?
Just think if the lower numbers for a referendum get passed, just think what fun we can have. I'm going to start a referendum that the board members wear pink tu tu's and clown makeup at the meetings.
The new City Administrator violated the purchasing policy and spent over $8000 for a Strategic Plan. Then he admitted to Elliot that he did not know the Commission 2000 planning report existed. If someone is new to a city government and is concerned about planning for the future, wouldn't it be smart to ask if a plan already exists (especially one based on a survey of residents and businesses like the Commission 2000 plan) before spending $8000 from your slush fund?
7:12 PM I think that you would get further with an initiative rather than a referendum. But go ahead as your comment is pretty funny already.
7:20 PM
Yes
Answer the question. How can Roger Anderson question the C/A spending $8,000 when he, per Elliot Davis, causes the city to spend $26,000 of unbudgeted money for a State audit that was already being prepared by the firm paid by the city to perform the same audit? That $26,000 expediture was totally unnecessary. Just as any previous board member. They said the state audit was redundant.
I think the signers of the petitions have already been told they were redundant. look in the minutes for comments from dr. labore about why the police station wasn't built. The costs were over budget - period.
Then that's a good reason to keep term limits.
What, you can muster enough votes to get rid of an alderman before 9 yrs if they dont do a good job and that's why you "need" term limits?
Why did the charter committee want to revisit the term limits issue for the aldermen, but not the mayor?
They said it was their desire to follow the federal example of the Pres. having term limits but the other elected offical did not, just like it used to be in MO with the Governer.
7:12 PM 11/3 Put Jerry Miguel, Greg Roby and Steve Neider in pink tu tu's and clown makeup? I think that is insulting to Jerry, Greg and Steve and not at all funny. Why don't you grow up?
7:11 AM, November 04, 2006
Interesting. They were following the federal example?
5:52 PM "... Change the Charter? NO! Fire the committee and start over with one formed leagelly under the tenants of the Charter with input from the origional Charter committee, and Crestwood citizens, YES!Tom Ford" It is not clear to us whether you are for or against changing the Charter. If you are in favor of changing the Charter, please tell us what needs to be changed.
5:52 blogger: I am dead set against changing the Charter for any reason much less these silly changes proposed!
If you haven't read the post I put up last night(NO.243,) I can understand why you would question me, but if you have, you know I see no need for it!
The proposed changes can and will do only two things, allow people to retain power, or restore people to power. Either way, Crestwood looses the benefit of new leadership.
Before you vote on this issue Tuesday remember the words of Desralie, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!"
Tom Ford
Believe me - there is no 2 year-old conspiracy to regain power by anyone. Those people moved on long ago - you should too. Paranoia is not good for your health.
I totally agree with the last comment. Talk about always looking over your shoulder!!!
Hey Tom - the Charter is not the inspired word of God!
No, but is is the very foundation of our City, just like the Constitution is the foundation of our Nation!
Neither one of them are outdated, and neither one of them should be changed, especially for frivolous reasons (housekeeping?)
Tom Ford
The Constitution, just like the Charter, has within it's own body, the provisions to be changed by the citizens which it governs.
Like someone else said on an other post, the issue, execept for term limits, is not the changes, but who formed the Charter Review Committee and when they did it. That is the issue, just read this blog and you will see posts that state to the effect if this Mayor wanted to do the same now with his people it would be ok.
Pure politics that is all this has become, what a shame.
"Pure politics that is all this has become, what a shame." Well it's not that it became it, it started out that way!
If you can please give us a reason, or reasons acting Mayor Breeding, and later Mayor Fagan decided to do this? Are we to believe that a vision came to them that a commission should be formed a year early? If that's the case I am impressed! However, we all have an idea why this was done, and it was not to "clear up some question's" now was it!
I know, your"shocked" to find out politics was at the root cause of this, just like the inspector in "Casablanca" was shocked to find out gambling was going on at Rick's!
Tom Ford
probably it was suggested by golterman to clean up the language problems in the text. i pr omise you there is not conspiracy.
Golterman, sheesh - probably would be best if he just slimmed over to Fairview Heights and joined the master. Crestwood needs and deserves better.
7:41 PM 10/20 blogger. "the city used the Crestwood Connections to promote voting for the police palace". The ballot language didn't say "police" anything, and is what misled the public. It had not one word in it about a police facility. Police facility are the definitive words that should have been employed. I wish to revisit the issue in the Crestwood Connections that told of an elaborate 14 million dollar police facilty. Please tell me so I can look it up. I read nothing other than the words "capital improvement sales tax". If it's a police facility, then it should say so in the Crestwood Connections and on the ballot. I would like to see where it was totally explained as such. I would like to see the words for myself where the people were told in black and white, word for word.
This issue started being talked about way before the public knew about it, but it was not publicized to the public like the multi-million dollar deal it was.
There should have been big time communications done before it was placed on the ballot so people knew; AND THEN, the BALLOT LANGUAGE, ON THIS CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT SALES TAX, should have stated POLICE FACILITY AND THE DETAILS THAT WENT WITH IT.
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