Reasons to vote no on the Crestwood Charter Nov. 7, 2008 !!!
On Tuesday November 7, 2006 I am voting NO on all five crestwood Charter propositions, here's why.
Proposition 1 is supposed to contain nothing more than housekeeping items, but read the fine print! Unfortunately it contains more than housekeeping, and here are a couple of examples.
Proposition 1 gives the BOA the option to remove the City clerk from the job protection of "civil service." Proposition 1 could find the City clerk coming under the unique influence of the City Administrator! Proposition also removes the current requirement that the C/A prepare a five year plan!
Proposition 2 removes "term limits." Crestwood's term limits are not very restrictive, they merely require that a Mayor, or Alderman not serve more than 3 three-year terms in a row. Do we have someone trying to get back into office?
Proposition 3 adds censure to the Charter. The problem with censure is that a simple majority of the board can use it as a club to quiet any desenting voice, by, by democracy!
Proposition 4 and 5 would reduce the numbers of signatures needed for a referendum or recall petition. Again do we have someone looking a re-calling the Mayor, or BOA member?
The current Charter is working. In the past two years we have had a new Mayor, a new C/A, and four new Alderman. The City is recovering, so won't you please join me on November 7th. And vote NO on the five charter propositions.
Tom Ford
NO. 243
Proposition 1 is supposed to contain nothing more than housekeeping items, but read the fine print! Unfortunately it contains more than housekeeping, and here are a couple of examples.
Proposition 1 gives the BOA the option to remove the City clerk from the job protection of "civil service." Proposition 1 could find the City clerk coming under the unique influence of the City Administrator! Proposition also removes the current requirement that the C/A prepare a five year plan!
Proposition 2 removes "term limits." Crestwood's term limits are not very restrictive, they merely require that a Mayor, or Alderman not serve more than 3 three-year terms in a row. Do we have someone trying to get back into office?
Proposition 3 adds censure to the Charter. The problem with censure is that a simple majority of the board can use it as a club to quiet any desenting voice, by, by democracy!
Proposition 4 and 5 would reduce the numbers of signatures needed for a referendum or recall petition. Again do we have someone looking a re-calling the Mayor, or BOA member?
The current Charter is working. In the past two years we have had a new Mayor, a new C/A, and four new Alderman. The City is recovering, so won't you please join me on November 7th. And vote NO on the five charter propositions.
Tom Ford
NO. 243
posted by Crestwood Independent at 18:05
101 Comments:
Those who are against Prop 5 would like you to think it was limited to the Mayor. It is not, read on page 26 Section 10.3 PETITION (a) it states that a petition of recall for an Alderman needs 20%. That is the same percent as Mayor, so Prop 5 if passed would reduce the percent to 15% for ALL elected officials, as the Prop reads, "reduce the % of signatures for Recall to 15%". Doesnt say Mayor only.
Can you tell me why the city left out the words (or something like them) "new police facility" off of the ordinance and ballot language for the extension of the capital improvements tax? Were they worried about a world-wide shortage of ink? Why did they leave that off of there? Yes, I know the newspapers mentioned it and the Crestwood Connections mentioned it once, but why were those words left out? Maybe an investigation should be started to look into this.
Yea, lets start an investigation into why people in Crestwood, get the local papers and Connections and still claim they didnt know what they were voting for. COME ON!
How about this, since this was such a miscarrage of justice, lets vote for Prop4 which reduces the per cent of signatures to 15% to get a referendum on the ballot, let make the ballot read, should the Sunset of the Capital Improvements Tax be changed to expire 1/1/07? If extention of the Sunset is such a burr in everyones throat, lets vote to make the Sunset now.
Like that idea, I do, it would be a reduction in taxes, brought about by the common man and would fix correct an error.
Vote for Prop 4 and 5
Some of you have requested the cost to print out, and mail this Charter book that just came out.
5,000 booklets: $2895.00
Maiing, handeling: $295.00
Postage cost: $877.26
Total cost: $4067.26 !
Or, 8.38 sets of tires for the P.D.
Or, pool chemicals for whitecliff, or? But you get my point.
By the way before you say I don't know what the cost really was, a FOI form was filed, and those answers came from City Hall (who did the printing, mailing ETC.
I do love progress so!!!
Tom Ford
A petition was done in the summer of 2005 regarding the city hall lease in Crestwood Plaza. The number of required signatures was easily obtained.
Why did the charter review committee think it wise to reduce the required signatures? Why didn't they ask anyone who collected those signatures if the process was easy or difficult?
This is what Crestwood needs at City Hall, go to this link for the answer to all our problems. Paste it on your browser, we need to return to the day of "large" elected officals if we want to bring Crestwood back. theonion.com/content/node/39683?utm_source=Distributed&utm_medium=Embedded%2BHTML&utm_campaign=Widgets
Your fear of letting citizens vote on the form of their government is quite humorous. Who's the real liberal?
YOY ARE!
Why are those of you against the 5 Prop.s so afraid of that the voters who don't read your blog will read the ballots as the City mailed out, the Times published in todays paper and the "other" blog explained over two weeks ago? The Mayor said in a Board meeting and was quoted in Call as being against the Prop.s, since he is paid by the City with your tax dollar, isnt that against your position of the City shouldnt take a position on the election?
Why did the charter committee want to revisit the term limits issue for the aldermen, but not the mayor?
In the United States freedom of expression is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html
United States Constitution Bill of Rights Amendmnet I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or a abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Can you really censure our Mayor and Board of Alderman?
How about just censuring our City Administrator? We could save a lot of money in hiring consultants to say the same as the Commission Report of 2000 by former Mayor Brasfield?
http://www.moga.state.mo.us/const/A01008.HTM
Missouri Constitution Article I Bill of Rights Section 8
Freedom of speech--evidence of truth in defamation actions--province of jury.
Section 8. That no law shall be passed impairing the freedom of speech, no matter by what means communicated; that every person shall be free to say, write or publish, or otherwise communicated whatever he will on any subject, being responsible for all abuses of that liberty; and that in all suits and prosecutions for libel or slander the truth thereof may be given in evidence; and in suits and prosecutions for libel the jury, under the direction of the court, shall determine the law and the facts.
How can we censure our Mayor, City Administrator, and Board of Alderman when they are citizens of the State of Missouri?
I looked up the word "censure" in a variety of dictionaries on the web. I posted some of their answers for your review.
American Heritage Dicitionary
to give censure, adverse criticism, diapproval, or blame
Middle English, from Latin censura, censorship, from censor, Roman censor.
WordNet dictionary
Censure
2. the state of being excommunicated
So after reviewing the definition of the the word "censure", can we legally vote against our First Amendment as stated in the U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights?
As a citizen of Crestwood, do you want your Board of Alderman, which is your spokesperson for your Ward, be told to "shut up" or we are going to censure you permanently?
Is it okay with you to have your Board of Alderman never disagree with the other alderman and Mayor?
After you ponder this thought, how many men and women have died while speaking up for your rights to live peaceably in Crestwood?
It is amazing how the majority of Crestwood citizens has German ancestry. Has everyone forgot why their relatives left German and neighboring countries?
History can and will repeat itself when the citizens do not look at the cause and effect of a law. By questioning out loud helps everyone understand what is "good good" for all citizens.
How did Hitler gain all of his power in such a short time? Hitler taught his youth soldiers about his political ideas so that they can run for political office in order to change the law for Hilter's benefit. Hitler would have anyone arrested who would speak up against his ideas or plan for Germany.
Do you want to live under a Hitler political power or under the U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights?
What is the hidden agenda for the charter changes by nine years versus ten years as stated in the charter?
Who has to gain by these changes?
Who wants to be in the office indefinitely and be able to censure their other Board of Alderman and Mayor's questions?
Who wants all of the power of Crestwood? Is this same group of people the ones who want to condemn your property by a phone call to the City of Crestwood so they can be rich over your property?
How off the press!
I just received a phone call asking me if the Rosebrook Real Estate officers and Crestwood Swim Club members want all of their power back so they sell the TDD bonds to reimburse THF for the purchase price of $850,000 for their old condemned pool!
Maybe the Crestwood Swim Club needs enclosed parking with valet parking on the City of Crestwood Parking lot for their year round private political fundraisers for Alderman Duwe, Alderman Kelleher, Alderman Pickel, Alderman Bland, Alderman Breeding, Mayor Robinson, and City Attorney Golterman!
Our Mayor and Board of Alderman will have to start doing the following to get the City of Crestwood back on track:
"Make a Hard Right over the Easy Wrong"
Vote No for all of the Charter Amendments for November 7th election to allow freedom of speech.
If you think Tom Ford promotes "ethnic cleansing", then check out the Crestwood Swim Club application requirements for their summer membership!
Crestwood Swim Club board requires a photo of your family with your application to swim.
Is this another form of "censorship" with funding by TDD public funding?
Who was killed under the Roman Empire censor?
History is repeating itself in the City of Crestwood with the new Roman Bathhouse!
I want to personally thank our Mayor, City Administrator, Board of Alderman and City Attorney for educating me on "your" interpretation of our law and process in filing the paperwork!
Thanks to each and every one of you, I am trully motivated in looking up our laws and ordinances in our public libraries. This allows me to question your interpretation and process as a citizen of Crestwood.
I now value our U.S.Constitution, Bill of Rights and Missouri Constitution.
If we allow "censuring" of our public officials, will we be censured to speak at our public meetings?
What is next?
Living in a city like Bagdad?
This blog is read by all of the archie bunkers of crestwood.
I myself find a lot of interesting facts and information. You all are the pulse - the heartbeat of Crestwood. You are hip and happening!
you've got to be kidding? "hip and happening"
Yes you are!
Tom,
I'll join you in voting no on all five charter propositions, and I hope others will, too! Crestwood deserves better than this political folderol.
Martha Duchild
At least the citizens have a choice to vote on these and have a voice. That is more than I can say for everything else that goes on.....
Spending $8000 not approved by the BOA and not in the budget. Not to mention violating the purchasing policy.
Moving funds around to "show progress" with the finances. Didn't the citizens vote for the tax increases for specified reasons? ie. Capital Improvements, storm water improvements, etc.
Citizens not being informed regarding special work sessions.
Rushing into the Annual Appropriation Note without much citizen input or knowledge.
These are a couple of things that really get under my skin.
At least the Charter changes are getting citizen approval/disapproval.
To a point. The charter changes were fed to us by the city, at a cost of $4000.00. No debate, pros or cons of each change, has been discussed. I was hoping for town hall meetings and something that provided both sides, pro and con, of each change. I think these things could have been done for less than $4000.00.
The expenditure of $8000 for the consultant was a real waste of money. What was really upsetting was the fact that he wanted to come back next year, and Myers agreed!
6:10 PM blogger: Archie Bunker's of Crestwood (please note cap's,)Wow, and that would make you "Meathead?"
Lighten up friend, this blog is read by everyone who knows about it, and cares about Crestwood. This is your forum, this is your chance to be heard (from the shadows if you wish.)
Please come at us with questions, facts, your interpetation of events, or your favorite reciepe! But please show your intellegent side for a change and quit calling us names!
6:22 Blogger: Hip and happening, allright, "get down brothers and sisters!"
Tom Ford
It strikes me that the except for term limit changes, there is no political reason to vote against the Charter Changes.
It strikes me that Ms. Duchild and Tom are against the changes because:
1.they dont like who formed and appointed this Commission
2.They believe there is a conspiracy to return to "power" those who they disagree with that will take place if the Charter is changed.
These are the hallmarks of advanced paranoia and indicate a lack of good mental health.
There is no believable evidence that I can find on this blog, in the reports from all the newspapers, and in the minutes of the Commission itself to support the position of conspiracy. It just isnt there.
Vote on the changes based on what the effects will be if passed, not on a paranoia based conspiracy theory, two years in the making.
7:58 AM Blogger: Thank's ever so much for the "on line" diagnosis Dr. Freud!
Paranioa is a very strange thing, a very lerned man once said "just because your paranoid dosen't mean someone is not out to get you!"
In this case, Mrs. Duchild, and I happen to agree (with many others,) that this "change" serves no usefull purpose other than to make a few moves on the Crestwood chess board, moves that hardly benefit Crestwood!
We all appreciate your views from high up in the cheap seats, and I for one hope you will take out the paperwork for Alderman in April! Because until you join a commission, run for office, or use you name on this blog, I can't take you seriously!
BUT HEY, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION!
Tom Ford
Please cut and paste the address here for letters to the editor (South County Times,) reguarding Tuesdays electiion.
http://www.southcountytimes.com/1editorlettersbody.lasso?-token.enter=yes&-token.menuseclooptracking=6&-token.menuitemlooptracking=6
Tom Ford
A Goodwill Store is coming to Sunset Hills on Watson Road where the Decorating Outlet was located next to the Hostess Thrift Store. This means competition for Crestwood's Salvation Army Store. But the Salvation Army Store has the Crestwood Mall to draw customers while Goodwill will have the new Que Pasa Cantina to help it attract business.
That is a racist comment!
Racist comment? are we "grasping at straws here? If citing a mall and a resturant are "racist" to you, I would hate to see what your parameters are.
You should have a pop or two and try to come back into focus my friend, cause as they say,"you must be left cause you aint right."
Tom Ford
(English-Irish-elderly-weight challanged-vision challanged American.)
Ifn you have a child attending this school, well good luck on the outcome! Is she a liberal or just plain stupid?
Cut and paste to your browser.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1162378324729&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Tom Ford
To 7:58 a.m. November 5th:
How clever of you to accuse someone of something so ridiculous and offer no proof to support the accusation!
You must not have attended the charter commission's public hearing, various board meetings at which I've spoken, or read the letters I've sent to the local papers. There can be no other explanation for your outlandish assertion that I don't like those who appointed the commission or that I believe there is a conspiracy afoot.
I am opposed to the changes for the simple reason that the majority of them, as written, are of no benefit to the charter, and in some cases are damaging. All I needed was logic (and grammar skills) to formulate my negative opinion of these changes.
Martha Duchild
Among the November 7 ballot issues are propositions designed to change the Crestwood Charter. Their placement on the ballot and their confusing ballot language has been costly and unnecessary. Our original Charter Commission, an outstanding neutral commission wrote our Charter some 11 years ago; they clearly knew their mission and did it right the first time. The Maiden Voyage has been flawless. This amazing and original Charter Commission is to be commended for a Charter which is the pride of our community and which is in accordance with our neighboring charter cities. Leaving our Charter intact simply makes good sense. It has stood us in good stead.
The existing Crestwood Charter is and has been a stable, reliable and consistent part of our city government on which we have come to rely. Term Limits are the rule of thumb statewide and countywide. No reason on earth to change this. Our Charter already has provisions for disciplinary situations in place. Overturning board decisions and recall items should remain intact and representative of the will of the majority of residents NOT a non representative minority. This, then, is the democratic way. The housekeeping items are nothing more than hodge-podge lengthy ballot language politically inspired to confuse. You will see this when you read it. I am voting NO on all Crestwood Charter Amendments. When the Charter needs changing, it should be for a good reason. This reason does not currently exist. Please join me in voting NO on all 5 Charter Propositions on November 7.
Carol Casey
The polls close at 7:00 PM tomorrow night, and then we shall see what the citizenry thinks of this ill advised Charter change.
The origional Charter commission did a wonderful job of seting up the first one, and just because "someone" didn't like it we formed a committe a year early to change it.
The crew that came in to change the charter never asked any of the origional members for help, nor did they act on remarks from the citizens attending their meetings.
Tomorrow were asked to change a document that has served this City very well for ten years now. Why you say? Well it seems some think that their ideas are better than the origional framers! Now why would that be?
Well, if you were to read that 25 page change order sent out by the Charter change commission you will see that it benefits a very small amount of people in this City. You don't want to listen to an Alderman, threaten him with "censure!" Not happy with serving three terms as Alderman (Why would that be?) change the Charter! Put the City Clerk under the C/A (didn't we just see something like that,) change the Charter! Not happy with meeting in Crestwood? Change the Charter! Hate the Mayor? Change the Charter!
This entire idea was born of a nightmare! Put one group in control, and keep them there until they die. No new blood, no new ideas, only the same old rhetroic, the same faces, and yes, the same mistakes!
If your serious about the City of Crestwood coming back to it's rightful place VOTE NO on all five changes, otherwise.........
Tom Ford
You are clueless.
People can't expect the government to do everthing. In the event of, say the eruption of the supervolcano under Yellowstone National Park, or a torrential rain of boiling blood, citizens should realize they're on their own!
"a torrential rain of boiling blood"???
Sounds almost Biblical doesn't it?
But that is what it will be like if the Charter changes are passed!!
hyperbole anyone?
The big mystery is why is Tom Ford so enraged about this. It is all so minor. Why did he feel the need to deliver fliers door-to-door. That must be the real conspiracy there. Very interesting.
I was just this a.m. speaking with someone about the Charter Amendments and the fact that one of our more astute and courageous residents challenged, on several occasions, the legality of the meeting date of the most recent Charter Commission which was given their assignment by the former Mayor to make certain changes which would be beneficial to their minority group, their mission. The meeting date is clearly stated in the Charter, which wording clearly makes this recent commission meeting date completely illegal and premature and thus makes the charter issues on the ballot a fraud. My friend asked why, if this is even debatable,and there were two schools of thought on the matter, it was not further challenged. I told my friend because Crestwood's City Attorney ruled the meeting date was legal. One opinion. My friend then stated, why didn't someone take it up with the Attorney General if the Charter was our ruling instrument, with a clearly stated meeting date and the City Attorney's ruling was possibly politically inspired and there was concern. And, then, sadly, I had to mention that our city attorney's politics might possibly coincide with a group in our city which wants the charter changed to benefit them and could be the reason this position does not usually advocate or rule in favor of anything the current administrtation does. Then my friend said, isn't the current administration the one residents preferred? I said, of course according to the election results. My friend said, then why do the residents of Crestwood continually let themselves be walked all over. It sounds like the charter amendments on the ballot are the complete absence of democracy and fair play and a waste of time when all you need to rule the city is a City Attorney. Quit pussyfooting around, take the necessary steps to have someone who knows what they are doing and are neutral and get a fair ruling. Otherwise, pray tell, why are you even incorporated. It sounds like Crestwood is in the early stages of lockjaw. Cowtowing to the sad old state of too busy,too busy, too broke to pay attention to what is going on. Too busy to protect themselves from the politics which are obviously a constant Donnybrook and detrimennt. If this Charter Meeting Date ruling is allowed to stand and does indeed pose a very serious question of its legality and is not challenged further, why do you guys even have a charter, a city council or a city hall? I know you guys are sorta broke, but how much could a help wanted "City Attorney" ad run? "Must have thick skin, wear boxing gloves and practice law.
Now I ask you, how do I answer that one?
yYou can try to be ask qestions of this mayor, but if he doesnt like them you will not be treated very well. So, it is polititcs as normal in Crestwood, regardless who is the Mayor.
12:55 PM blogger: Tom Ford is so "enraged" (my BP is 121/78,) because this formation of the nine a year early was wrong! The ideas were, and are wrong for Crestwood, and there was just no need to spend money to put this on a balot!
Tom Ford will continue to be "enraged" when we spend monies needlessly, or in frivols fashion such as this.
The better question is why are you not "enraged?" What will it take for you to see the light here and come to work with your fellow citizens for a better Crestwood? Or would you rather go back to the old regime? Remember thoes guy's, the ones with the 14.5M police station?
By the way, no conspiracy here, I leave those sorts of things to the pro's!
Tom Ford
9:02 PM blogger: Please give us all the benefit of your vast wisdom, your great insight, so that we to, the great un-washed may also "have a clue!"
Tom Ford
Hey 12:55'er, I have never seen Tom Ford enraged so hang that one up. You must have him confused with Ward 2's alderman. You know, the one who is ready to pop 100% of the time, when he is there.
Last time I checked one can deliver anything reasonable door to door, even if enraged; or excuse me, did our legal eagle slip a new law in there that says differently? Nothing would surprise me. Sorry you consider ill advised charter changes minor; you sound like you know a lot about conspiracy, too. You have obviouslsy found your calling. But mostly you sound like the last person on earth I would want to consider qualified to be a resident of Crestwood.
You feel that Tom Ford is enraged? I wouldn't say stating facts is the meaning of the word enraged. Most people in Crestwood when asked about the charter changes just said they thought it was the 'craziest' thing yet! Well, we spent a lot of money taking these frivilous things to the people's vote, let's hope it was worth even part of our money!
"Enraged?" No, but in this case I think a quote from T.R. might be in order!
It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
Nuff said!
Tom Ford
6:59 PM 11/5 For $4067.26 five thousand residences got a perfectly good printed copy of the City Charter for their use. That is, of course, unless the resident thought so little of our city's constitution that the resident threw it in the trash.
No, five thousand residences got a copy of a potentially amended charter submitted by the charter review committee, not the existing charter, for $4057.26. This was a piece for the election.
Not only did the voters not receive enough time to digest it all, it slipped out of city hall without the board of aldermen knowing about it, approving the cost or offering suggestions.
Conveniently the City Clerk was on vacation. Have no clue where the C/A was.
In other words, 9 appointed people decided to bypass our elected people, use the prepaid city hall stamp and let her rip. What an amazing way to interpret democracy.
I can hardly face my friends in Webster and Kirkwood who are wondering where our city attorney is.
Well, let's not worry, afterall censure will not stand in court anyway no matter what the City Attorney thinks.
If he bothers to look into this he will find out that censure for public statements is a direct violation of the first ammendment rights, ergo, no go!
poster 9:58 are you acting dumb or is it for real? Censure has NOTHING to do with freedom of speech. Did you not read what the City sent you. Look up what the word means, it is not taking away freedom of speech.
Ah the heck with you, you'll never understand or believe anyone anyway. As Jim White of KMOX use to say "you can't fix stupid".
Thanks for being a part of the problem in Crestwood
10:05 PM, November 07, 2006
Censure is not mentioned in the Constitution either. Censure refers to an official rebuke. By the way, why would anyone quote Jim White?
If the people pass any of these, it's their will. I may not agree with any of these, but I can't argue with what voters want.
Tom quotes Ragan and T.R wwhat wrong with Jim White? If the shoe fits were it.
The shoe doesn't fit. I'll go barefoot, thank you.
sounds like a typical Roy supporter to me
6:41 PM 11/3 Blogger. Come On Yourself!!!! It makes no difference to me what the new papers or the Crestwood Connections said about the Capital Improvement Sales Tax issue and it makes no difference to me who OK'd the police facility, who ordered it, was responsible for it, or anything else.
When I read the ballot language, which should ALWAYS state what the issue was for, it never stated that the Capital Improvement Sales Tax was to build a 14 million dollar police facility and that is WHAT YOU VOTE ON, NOT WHAT IS IN THE PAPER.
The board of aldermen may have been lead to believe we had money, but by the time the city staff was going to vacate city hall and work out of the plaza in order for this new million dollar thingy was to be built, all board members knew that we had no money. But did they do anything? No. The people had to stop it.
COME ON YOURSELF, MR. BLOGGER, a capital improvement means you will be improving on something that already exists. We already had a new roof on the darn existing building. Why weren't the board members asking the question, why did we spent that money if we are now talking about tearing the darm building down?
The ballot language Mr. Blogger, it's the ballot language, pure and simple that misled all of the city residents. and the people in office should have been ashamed of not knowing who they were sleeping with to carry them over with an idea like that plus all the money for architectural drawings.
The board members can call this mayor anything they want, and they can scream and have their little tantrums and I don't care if it is Trueblood, Kelleher, Fagan, Duwe, Brasfield et al. this mayor's eyes are more opened to the residents that they are and were.
Capital improvement sales tax does not mean a 14 million dollar police facility and since that was never stated on the ballot, you can call me and everybody else idiots; but the ballot language should state the facts and it was deliberately deleted from its contents.
When you sign papers to buy a car, and you read the words on a contract, and it says, improvements on a building down the street, do you not feel misled and wonder who is trying to take your money and put it on something other than what you were buying? Same thing. So, someone tried to screw the citizens of this community with that capital improvement issue (my foot) and it makes me ill.
Thank you.
"this mayor's eyes are more opened to the residents that they are and were."
Well if you want to talk ballot language. I guess you think that the recent ballot language was ok? NOT. Why didn't the adored mayor try and have it stated more clearly for the citizens? I never heard any talk about that. I thought his eyes were more opened to the residents? I guess he just didn't care.
10:24 PM 11/9 Blogger. You are comparing apples to oranges.
I am not talking about recent ballot language, I am talking about the ballot language used regarding a very, serious and extremely expensive police facility. Language that never spoke about the darn facility in the whole ballot.
If you don't like the recent ballot language, I am sure that whichever ballot you are speaking about, it didn't create a critical money problem to a city that already had no money.
Sounds to be like all you want to do is change the subject so we can slam this mayor again and still.
Go ahead and have your fun. My comment doesn't have anything to do with yours.
2:49 PM blogger. We already had Hitler in Crestwood, and fortunately, he is now in Fairview Heights. I hope that never happens again.
9:09 PM Blogger on November 7th.
Leave the city clerk out of issues. She is not an elected official and is just trying to do her job like most of the employees, past and present.
Kim is a hard worker and has the right to take off of work when she wants, if it is OK'd by her superiors. With all the comp time she has on the books and all the night meetings she attends she gives her quality time to a very tenuous and difficult job.
If you want to slam someone, slam the elected officials that do not do their jobs to protect us.
Funny how some people always have to slam employees who just try to do their jobs. When they get angry at the elected officials, those employees who are just working because they need a job and not for glory, get slammed too.
I hope that Kim and other employees are protected from politics by the Civil Service rules and Regulations some day. Because if things happen as they have in the past, they will have nothing to fall back on to protect them. That's why Civil Service was started in the 1970's and some person who had too much power tried to chance it.
Leave Kim and the other employees of the city alone. Instead be mindful of who you elect to help save Crestwood.
Sandra Grave
Pedestals are also tenuous, as are blog sites which provide opportunity for all to comment and have opinions and concerns.
Like going duck hunting with Cheney.
Watch out!
I would rather go duck hunting with Dick Cheney than drive across a bridge with Teddy Kennedy!
Tom Ford
Hey Tom, do you know what the person at 12:20 PM is talking about. Please explain, if you can.
I believe they are referencing being on a "pedistal" can be dangerous! This is a retort to the "pedistal" blogger who want's?
That's my best guess anyway.
Tom Ford
One of the blogs in this category referred to why the Mayor did not make the ballot language more easily read and understood. This question should have been directed to the city attorney who writes ordinances and oversees the ballot language, which language is historically blurred and for which he is paid a tidy sum.
You know, everything in the city which one does not like is not the Mayor's fault. The BOA consists of 9 people and the city has an administrator and an expensive attorney.
Direct your questions to the correct person, always making potshots at a Mayor does not solve a thing. It only make you appear biased. This city is growth challenged because of bias.
12:09 blogger. I second your remarks. Great comment.
I agree with the 2 previous posts.
Roy
12:09 PM blogger: Well said, and gospel truth!
Thanks for enlightening the masses!
Tom Ford
6:41 PM 11/3 Blogger. You are just plain stupid if you think that having a police facility mentioned in the newspapers but not putting it on the ballot in "plain English" is OK. We vote according to the ballot.
First of all, put your money where your mouth is.
State the dates of the editions of the newspapers and the Crestwood Connections where it was explicitely (I MEAN EXPLCITELY)stated that we would be voting SPECIFICALLY ON THE BALLOT FOR a brand new police facility. I want to see it for myself and don't intend to certify any dubious words used other than the definitive words "police facility". I don't want to take somebody else's word on it which is what I think you are going on.
ALSO, give me some of the wording that was stated in those newsletters and newspapers, as an example on this blog so when I check them out for myself, I can find the articles without any trouble.
FURTHER, EVEN IF THEY ARE INDEED WRITTEN IN BLACK AND WHITE WHICH I DOUBT....
we vote according to what is on the ballot, stupid!!!! If it doesn't state it on the ballot, and instead IT IS CALLED A "capital improvement sales tax" how in the HEY does that equate to a brand new 14 million dollar police station? I know why it wasn't put on the ballot AS SUCH...because people in this town would have never OK'd it because they didn't want it IN THE FIRST PLACE.
You talk about a miscarriage of justice! The people in this city were made to look like fools and were deliberately misled by the likes of the previous administration and that benign ballet language was purposely imposed on the citizens of this town. Some one or two persons thought that the residents of this city were idiots and backwards and would let it get by. End of subject.
I am waiting for your reply.
Did anyone notice that no one replied to the 5:09 Nov. 22 blogger? Isn't that strange. Thus, I am presumsing that everyone agrees that the ballot language referred to no where, no how, no way spelled out that money was to go specifically for a 14.5 Million dollar city hall. In the future, I would suggest that never again should there be ballot language that is in the least confusing. I charge the Board of Aldermen to make darn sure that the language is completely clear. I challenge voters to stress this with the elected officials. I hope never again to come this close to getting a 14.5 Million Dollar pile of bricks we don't need and can't afford. This is corruption at its best and this city would have caved underneath this debt. Guess which aldermen and which Mayor and which C/A and Attorney pushed this idea. Keep your eyes open. Do you have any idea how much of your money was spent drawing up those plans and re-drawing and re-drawing them. Between the lawyers, the architects and the contractors and the under the tableitis, take a guess. Not where I want my tax dollars to go - ever again.
6:58 12/1 DITTO
I charge the voters to have an IQ high enough and a strong enough interest in what they are voting on to READ and UNDERSTAND the newspaper's and the Citys news letter reports of what the results will be if a ballot is passed, to attend a meeting of the Alderman and ask questions, and not to hide like this poster has done, behind the normal to be expected liberal's claim that it is always someone else's fault for their failure to know what they are doing. That's what you should expect of the Crestwood voter and for that matter any American voter. If you care enough to vote, then take the time to research what the heck your voting on, or save those of us who do our research the grief you pour out over your claim of poor ballot language after each and every election. No one is buying your claim anymore it is old, very old history. That is why no one has responded to the poster whose story is the only reason a ballot could have passed that they were against was because it was the language that fooled the voters.
BUNK already, pure BUNK
S.W. Malter
To S. W. Malter: Well thought out, and well done sir or madam !
We have the power and opportunity to get the ballot language before it appears on the printed line at City Hall, so?
No doubt we all believe we are doing something, but are we doing enough ?
Tom Ford
9:25 pm 12/2 You say BUNK, I say HORSE MANURE! Even if we ALL did our research as you assume we haven't, IF THE BALLOT LANGUAGE DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY STATE A 14 MILLIION DOLLAR POLICE FACILITY, we are being MISLED! You are plain ignorant if you think that ballot language can be vague. That is what you are specifically stating!!! If so, let's not even worry about ballot language from now on. Let's all just assume that what we read in the news is GOSPEL.
More BUNK, YOU SAY? I say more HORSE MANURE ON YOUR PART.
If the voters in Crestwood are as easy to mislead as you claim they are, do the recent results of the elections for Mayor, Aldermen, tax increases and Charter changes reflect misleading ballot language, and slick political campagins? Were the voters "fooled again"? If so, which ones fooled them, and which ones didn't?
I respect your expert knowledge of horse manure as you have a lot in common with the it's source and will therefore, not attempt to debate you on that slippery subject.
S.W.Malter
Oh, my! Witty banter! Next----
Tom Ford
The rantings of the Malter blogger are not all that valid. His pulpit must really have a potent smell. However, if this is his opinion, fine. It's just that he assumes his opinions are the right ones, the only ones. All opinions count. If ballot language is vague, it is vague. Human nature being what it is, however,one might hear about the basics of an issue not knowing until they stepped in the booth that the small print could very well change its meaning in a twisted way which is not understood. Happens all the time.
However, it sure does look like the voters knew what they were doing when they failed all but one of the charter issues. Think perhaps the secret here is that voters have come to expect this small print so to speak, and turn a negative and wise ear to it.
I don't know a single soul who thought that they were going to slip a 14.5 Million dollar city hall on the ballot under the guise of capital improvements.
Interesting that poster 5:31 calls Malter's postings rants, but ignores poster 11:39 inabilty to control themselves in their attempt to gain followers for the "we are too stupid to know what we are voting for" crowd. To cap it off the last line is a nice twist, re-read it and you quickly see the double negative implications that the poster 5:31 invents to support their "no one I know "bandwagon" approach to the misrepresntation of the fact that the majority voted for the extention of the Sunset on the tax. If the Majority was so mislead, why havent they started an Referendum Petition to require a vote to roll back the extention of the Sunset? Sounds to me that would be the best way of undoing this claim of ballot language problems by allowing the voters to once again revisit the issue of the Sunset. Why or why have neither poster 5:31/11:39 done this? Are they pro-tax and spend liberals? Since the $14 million dollar rebuild has been stopped, why does the City still need the money? Where is the leadership in Crestwood ?
Poster 5:31 "all opinions count"? Pleaszzze spare us all the "we are the world" sap. If what you claim is true, that "all opinions count" then why do you label my opinion's as "rants"? You dear blogger are the one who assumes your opinions are the right ones, the only ones. There is no room in your mind for debate on this issue because to do so might show that your opinions can not be supported by logic.
To answer the question of poster 6:41 on Nov 3 the extention of the Sunset was not to be exclusive use for the "new police facility". It was for Capital Improvements programs like streets and repair and upgrade of buildings like City Hall and the Police Station, which by the way, our current Police Chief and Mayor at the time of the election supported. Were they mislead by the ballot language? The bottom line, the voter is the last line of defense against a poorly written ballot, it is up to the voter to know what they are voting on. Mayor Robinson and his Police Chief seemed to have understood, why couldnt you?
S.W.Malter
4:24 12/3 Well whoever you are, I am smart enough to know horse manure when I smell it and you are full of it.
Stop evading the issue. I didn't speak of anything other than the BALLOT LANGUAGE on the Capital Improvement Sales Tax Ballot.
Show me one article where it says we were voting on a new police facility. You talk about research so tell me what research besides word of mouth from the wrong people did you have. I am talking about IN WRITING given to the public that stated we were about to build a new police facility.???
Don't, I repeat, don't be calling the people in this town stupid because we didn't do our research. Seems to me that you were duped and are too proud to admit it.
I want someone to show me where it said in any news media that we were embarking on a brand new police facility. Me thinks you were talking to the big boys who were in charge at the time who filled your idiot mind full of "horse manure" and you didn't only smell it, you ate it.
That's what we got with a sociopathic CA in charge of everything who put himself before the people in this town. You reek buddy, you simply reek.
HELLO MR. MALTER OR WHOEVER YOU ARE....You don't incorporate a multi-million dollar police station in with capital improvements. When you say CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS TO PEOPLE YOU INTIMATE THAT YOU ARE improving on things that already exist; thus a new roof on an existing building, concrete slab replacement, et al. Not a brand new "ANYTHING". GET A GRIP!
However, if you want to deceive, you can HIDE IT under the guise of it being a capital improvement. But in this town, that type of thing warranted town hall meetings and media invitations to meetings, and signs on street corners getting the word out that we are undertaking a new police facility. It is called communication that is specific not hidden under some dubious capital improvement anything.
That's what happened and everyone can say what they want but until somebody shows me proof otherwise, this is my comment. End of subject.
Posters 10:24/10:39, Simple minds at work again. Not bright enough to think for themselves so they resort to name calling and generalizations of those who disagree with them or who can think for themselves.
A mind is a horrible thing to waste, but not to worry for these two. Back to your liberal blame someone else ways, return to the fears of black choppers flying over your house in the night, but never take adult responsbilities. .
It is not I that is calling the people of Crestwood stupid, it is you. When you claim they were duped and admit they didnt do the research what else could you be calling them, but stupid to have voted on something they didnt research? How come the current Mayor and Police Chief supported the issue? They must have understood what they were voting for. Or are you claiming they were either duped or were they a part the "sociopathic C/A" support group in charge at that time? You can't have it both ways.
My question to you is still out there. If the voters were, as you claim, so misled by the ballot language, how come you are not leading the charge to roll back the Sunset on Captial Improvments tax to its orginal date? Wouldn't that undo the evil that you claim was done? That is all that the election changed, and it can be voted on again. Time for you to stand up and be counted on this issue. I am waitng for you to lead the way, to take over, to give your words supporting actions, to make a public stand.
On the matter of horse manure, I again will defer to your obvious expert knowledge of this materal based on your intimate relationship and striking physical likness to it's source.
S.W. Malter
To the "Malter" poster, and thoes who answer.
May we please have some civility here? I am impressed with the play on word's, the cuteness, and whatever. However, please in the future let's stick to the issues, and leave the venom out of the equasion!
Woulden't we all agree that this makes for a more enlightend posting?
Tom Ford
No problem Mr.Blog Master, it wasn't me who started the manure slinging, but I will be happy to follow your reasoned request and bring the debate up to adult standards that you maintain.
S.W. Malter
However .... among all the slinging of the manure was quite a bit of logic and many facts which pertain to the subject beneath the fury.
Wasn't aware however that our present Mayor and P. Chief had anything to do with that particular issue, the one referred to as police palace. I believe the perps on this one were the exes.
The best way to make a point is to get the facts straight. So sure, let's keep it civil and straight. You first.
P.S. Will the real Mr. Malter please stand up?
Sorry you were not aware about current Mayor and Police Chief support for the Police Station plan when it came out. But they did, ask them and as they are both honest men, I am sure they will tell you that was the case.
S.W.Malter
How many people were for this police station but did not know the financial status of the city? Did this ever occur to you ,,, the possibility of lies about the capability to support this? Tells you how much daylight shined on the truth and how many officials did not bother to dig deeper. Perhaps you are one who thought the former C/A was honest and capable. Good that the smart crowd halted this palace in time and that this slimbag is gone. Sadly, the ex Mayor and an ex-Ward 2 Alderman and several others teamed with this twerp and his cheating ways and in the doing smeared themselves with his miserable deeds. One is known by the company they keep it goes. The air is now a lot cleaner at city hall and hope is in the air. Say what you will, Crestwood has been through the mill and is making progress in coming around. No thanks to the former 3 Mayors and a good many of their cronnie board members. The ones there now are being scrutinized; their votes and their questions. But mostly on their ability to work as a team member. Right now we are watching their ability to ask the hard questions of Mr. Grewe, who seems to think Crestwood should help him make a living. Hogwash! If this help comes through and it proves to have been a mistake, the ones who voted yes will have major explanations to make. I don't get the idea that constituants think this handout is okay.
12:12 PM Dec. 5th. Very well said and all of it "right on". Congrats!
Poster 12:12 and 12:26, Mr.Ford asks for a return to civility and the removal of venom from posts. So I guess calling people simebags and twerps is doing that? It's a shame you cant express your self any better than this because the rest of your post has value, IE: 3 former mayors, Mr. Grewe.
S.W. Malter
First of all, calling them as you see them is hard to stop on a blog. Secondly, people are inclined to be passionate about their city, family, alma mater, etc. so often they do let it all hang out. I didn't see any cuss words on the blog you refer to, but I must agree that those mentioned people were not exactly pristine and their service was very ignoble. What kind of leg are you standing on anyway, sir/madam, signing your blog with a fake name? What kind of message does this send as you more or less blog preach under a guise? Slime and twerp are not charming words, but they are not totally uncivil. The unsteadyness this city coped with under these former officials will not soon be forgotten nor forgiven. This is the reality of the matter.
5:58 pm 12/5 I agree with you on this one and also the fake name given in the preceeding comments.
I see no horrible names emitted in your comments. But the fake namer wants us all to feel bad so he splits "hairs" to make a point.
Bravo blogger at 5:58 pm. If this fake name blogger was so sqeaky clean, why can't he come up with a real name or just remain anonymous. At least we are not fakes like him.
Why don't you use your name if your so "sqeaky clean"? What is so honorable about being anonymous?
What are you hiding from? How can we be sure you not fakes?
How do you know for sure I am not a real person?
Even if you knew me, what matter would it make in relationship to the value of what I said? Does a post only have value when you know who wrote it or if it is anonymous? Since you do not know me, then consider me as anonymous. Feel better?
S.W. Malter
Oh yeah, I feel a whole lot better. Whew!!!
You see, there is no category for ( ) fake or ( ) yawner for that matter, while there is one for ( ) anonymous.
You know how I know that? I was told that by a 3-legged dog who got it from the grapevine.
The part or your blog I totally like is: How do you know for sure I am not a real person? Well, fake people cannot read or write Mr. Malter. Is that a no brainer or what?
But,I like your game, the no rule, nonsense game where there are no requirements and no rules. You do however point out the fact that the rest of us are not only intelligent, but caring and understanding. We make points anonmmoyusly but we are not fakes. A fake person is not someone we put our faith in.
Your sex cannot be determined by your blog, although it does sound like a collaboration between feminine and masculine each reaching out for the right adjectives. May the best adjective win.
Thank you for your more than kind words.
S.W. Malter
Hey, you're more than welcome. Best you start diner now.
Not until you finish your knitting, dear, then I will start "diner"for you and the rest of the girls.
S.W. Malter
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