This weeks edition of the Suncrest Call!
Wow, Crestwood dodges the bullet this week, but Green Park is on front street!
Tom Ford
NO.265
Tom Ford
NO.265
posted by Crestwood Independent at 14:19
Wednesday, December 27, 2006
Contributors
117 Comments:
I heard the mall has been sold. anyone else hear that?
Yes, heard it over Christmas from relative who works there
crestwoos swim club bought it
We have a new swim club named CrestwooS?
I heard it too. How can we check? Is it at the Secretary of State website?
Missouri Secretary of State Website
https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/csearch.asp
Read the article on Green Park. Looks like they are flush! How do they do it? More importantly, I read with interest about the Fire District which wants to reduce taxes. Seems that two members of that Fire Board have done for voters exactly what they promoised. Is there a lesson here? Maybe they should do the proverbial "study" here and clue us in on How To Save, not Spend.
Is it true that the Walnut Body Shop located at 9760 Watson Rd, is related to the person who incorporated Green Park?
Is the person the brother of the Walnut Body's owner?
Why was Walnut Body excluded from Watson Redevelopment Plan from August 2005 by Melaniphy & Associates?
Walnut Body has been a long long time company in Crestwood and it probably had enough marbles in its pocket to assure them of a future. Afterall, just like with Creston Center, why run away places that are providing taxes and services for us and gamble on others which may or may not. One would have to prove they have the positive capability to replace a business with an improvement, not a lateral one, in order to drive them out. Don't think Crestwood has enough viability nowdays to discourage anyone who presently contributes to our community. Beats another "clothing" store all to heck. Besides, I like the diversity of our image. We are not Clayton.
What do others think? Building on our comments is what keeps a city ticking.
The Crestwood Mall could be used as a Weber Recycle Trash business which would be very lucrative for the City of Crestwood.
A Good Business Plan for Crestwood.
Why was Green Park really created?
Who is benefiting by this little city?
Sounds like the Garbarge Business!
It might be a positive if Westfield sold the mall. Think about it. If they did too much to Crestwood, they would be concerned about siphoning business from their other centers-West County, South County. If they did sell the mall, hopefully it was to someone who is hungry for business - and I mean hungry!
While I am not impressed with the lack of attention to Westfield Crestwood by its owners, I also think they are not too impressed with the negative press Crestwood created during our former administration. The kind of business we dream about is not likely to relocate here if our BOA is a shooting range.
Good points indeed!
4:21 yeah, like Green Park is without negative comments. Give me a break,blaiming the current conditions of the mall on anyone other that its owners is stupid. Something that cant be fixed, stupid that is.
S.W. Malter
I don't know what kind of "break" you want given to you, sir. But for my part, had I seen a city gov't that tried to buffalo the Watson Grant deal, had hocked its real estate to pay off a 3.5 Million Dollar LOC borrowed to pay the bills; had $159,000 worth of undocumented legal bills; had a city employee who dallied with the help and presented "creative" budgets with little light of day while driving a luxury car and receiving $830/Month to do so having traded in a city car for it; had a reputation for paper shredding by the light of the moon and had approved payment for plans and fees, revisions and embellishments for an unaffordable $14.5 million dollar city hall, which would have also become collateral had it been built; had seen a Mayor as his last act in office pass an ordinance to move all offices temporarily to Westfield Plaza, (the very plaza of which we speak) via a contract and later reniged upon and forgiven by this very plaza because citizens overrode the whole thing with a referendum (because of the obvious fact the cupboard was bare); had seen a former Mayor resign (ho ho)to "spend more time with his family," and then have his replacement serve as General of a war zone on whose shift there was settled a sexual harrassment law suit by a city employee plus a lawsuit by a city administrator and a huge settlement for another city administrator and finance officer which made no sense and which same General then created a premature charter board so it could end the term limit provision so the fight club could remain in office and the city could have more of the above. Had further seen the dissolvement of Civil Service for the employees and had promoted a TIF which created a TDD for a parking lot at a retail store which paid over $800,000 for a decrepid private swim club property worth less than $100,000 and sitting on a plot totally unsuitable but politically inspired.
Well say what you will, sir, but you could not pay me to fix up anything with this weighty mass until I had a solid guarantee that the city could shed its tattered coat and regain its lost reputation. In fact I heard when they tried to sell this plaza, the prospective owners backed out. I read where it was because of the bad press. It has been a total minefield where shopping centers fear to tread. It does not take Sherlock Holmes nor plaza investigators to realize that when you jump into this kind of cement, you get stuck. This is all current enough history made public and told practically verbatim by a newspaper over this timespan making it possible for a developer of a plaza to do some serious head scratching, and residents to become cynical enough to defeat Prop 1 for fear it would encourage more deficit spending and behavior unbecomming of officials and administrators.
Perhaps when those elected, who were party to this sad chapter of the city fade away, the city can regain a measure of dignity and in the doing once again court owners of the mall. Perhaps when ALL those in power collectively acknowledge that fiscal responsibility is key, and playing with political darts unsuitable, residents can quit wondering why cities incorporate. As I witnessed aldermen making vendettas more important than progress; aldermen who missed too many meetings, aldermen, who publicly demeaned other aldermen and the Mayor and even made fun of a parking sign on the city parking lot, I saw the pettiness which prevailed and just who perpetrated it and I realized how important it is to have an educated vote, term limits, and to give our wonderful city, its residents and employees, a fair shake. I plan to grandstand my city every chance I get, support those deserving of support, and savor the prospect of change for the good. I plan to keep a close watch to make sure that the officials color inside the lines. Betcha then a critique of my city can be done in 25 words or less.
As of this post no-one at City hall that I spoke with knows anything about the sale of the mall.
Me. Ellen Daley did in fact resign to persue other avenues of work, so please join me in wishing her good luck in her new job.
Now, there is still only one private swim club in Crestwood (unless someone got a hot tub for Christmas,) so forget the Chrestwoos deal!
I am wondering if Ms. Daley will surface in Fairview Heights, since she was recommended to the former C/A by a very prestigious law firm to begin with. Time will tell.
Tom Ford
poster 12:51 you are an example of why Crestwood will never move forward. As shown by your own words, you can not get past the failures of the past and therefore are not able to address the problems of today and provide the solutions for the future. Your desire to sit in the seat of judgement only as long as you can remain anonymous implies to me a real lack of leadership or bravery to step up and lead. There are four Aldermanic seats up for election this coming April. From what I know, no one has taken out papers to run for these seats, including you. This fact alone speaks volumes about the future of your fair City that you sit in anonymous judgement.
Oh, and by the way, I can not run for office in Crestwood. Honestly though, I really don't blame those who chose not to run for to do so would mean they would have to represent you, something I believe you fully understand and are happy with.
S.W. Malter
You can't run for office in Crestwood, yet you sit in judgement. Hmmm, amazing. S.W. Malter is purely fictional, so why abuse anonymous bloggers. We will forget the past when we get darned good and ready and when it ceases to rear its ugly head by repeat performances. We will sign our blogs when we get darned good and ready and when people like you quit dispersing wisdom through a foggy looking glass. However, blog away for it is true all opinions are welcome. Eventually someone will hit pay dirt.
There can be a varity of reasons why a person can't run for office, not the least of which is not being a U. S. Citizen. Health issues (my case,) being away from home for extended periods, etc.
Thank goodness none of those issues will stand in the way of posting here! We all know that the more ideas, remarks, and suggestions we get, the better things will be in Crestwood!
I can't tell you how many times I have been told that "no-one reads this blog," yet there are over 36,000 hits since I put the counter on in late Feb.
Somebody is reading it, I know some of the elected officials do, and I am sure some newspapers do as well! Thanks to all of you this blog has become a sounding board for ideas, gripes, praise, and yes, attacks (we could do without those!)
So, I have taken a very long way round the tree to tell S.M. Malter that I am very happy to have the posts, and that goes for ALL of you who choose "anonymous." My father had a saying "who cares who killed Hitler, as long as he's dead!" This applies to Crestwood as well, who cares who's ideas bring us back, as long as we come back!
Tom Ford
poster 215 not in judgement but in utter dismay at the lack of forward thinking displayed by some of your posts
Tom,
I am betting on Ellen Dailey working in Illinois!
City of Creve Coeur
Ellen C. Dailey, AICP
Planner
http://www.stlcommercemagazine.com/archives/january2004/network.html
Ellen Dailey
Economic Development Specialist
City of Crestwood
http://www.stlcommercemagazine.com/archives/january2006/ed_network.html
Vice President
Ellen Dailey, AICP
http://www.mo-apa.org/index.asp?NID=11
St. Louis Section PDO
Ellen Dailey, AICP
Missouri Chapter of American Planning Association
http://www.mo-apa.org/index.asp?NID=32
Professional Development Committee
Ellen Dailey, AICP
Illinois Chapter of American Planning Association
http://www.ilapa.org/comittees.html
me too, I think she lives in Illinois from what I have been told in the past!
We shall see!
Tom Ford
Watch what happens to Famous Barr in the coming year. The merger with May Company may cause Crestwood Famous Barr to close and then will be the end of Crestwood Mall.
By the way, May Department used to own the land under Crestwood Famous Barr.
Internet buying is the wave of the future!
should internet sales be taxed?
No, they should not be taxed!
Tom Ford
does leave sales taxed based citys a problem doesnt it?
That's why I'm so glad they want to give Grewe that nice CID.
Tom,
I am convinced that you are an idiot! Stop embarassing yourself!
Tom,
I am convinced that you are an idiot! Stop embarassing yourself!
1:29 AM, December 31, 2006
Well, it looks as though we have the "liberal mindset" at work here!
Wea can't refute the comment, so we attack the writer with personal insults, anonymously at that.
Un-fortunatly for you (whoever you are,) I shall continue to post my feelings as I see them, not as you wish me to see them!
I find you without honor, a coward (for not posting your name,) and as such un-worthy of anyones time, goodby!
Tom Ford
It seem's Ms. Ellen Daley has taken a position in Brentwood (along with one of our police officer's,) so we can all put the rumors to rest.
Good luck Ms. Daley!
Tom Ford
Tom,
For this New Year I wish you and yours a complete return to the health of your youth with a full recovery from your illness, so that you may enjoy what you have earned with your service to our Country.
Thank you again.
Happy New Year!
tim
trueblood
Has anyone shopped at our new Salvation Army store? How is it? I'd like to stop in there today if it's open.
FYI Ms. Dailey has gotten herself a wonderful job with Brentwood as Assistant City Adm. and Comm. Dev. Person. I am happy for her and wish her well.
4:37 PM blogger: As we all do I am sure!
Tom Ford
Brentwood hired her to do two jobs? Isn't that a smart way to get the biggest bang for your buck, ask Dept heads to wear two hats, like Jim Echridge is and Don Greer did. Look at all the $$ that was saved in our budget with it's declining sales tax dollars, even with a $800 a mth car allowance, which is less cost than that what health insurance, S.S.payment and retirement that our current full time Police Chief costs us a month before his salary. And we asked the mayor to remove Greer because of a car allowance? Or was it because he as a single person was dating another single person who worked for city. Cant fix stupid.
Sorry, but I disagree. Greer had two very demanding stressful jobs - city admin. and police chief. Giving him two jobs was not fair to him or the city. Ask Frank Myers if he would want the job of police chief also. Or ask the police chief if he would want the job of city administrator. My hunch is that they would say NO. Even Greer himself said he was tired.
The car allowance was a sore point because of the city's fiscal problems and the very high amount of the allowance.
6:41 So you think that Greer was asked to leave because of his car allowance? Like you said, "can't fix stupid" and that goes double for you. If you think that is all Greer did, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you. Do your homework, Bud.
Hay, poster 5:26, got a chip on your shoulder? Why dont you come here so I can knock it off for you, Bub?
Ah, 5:26 and 7:11 PM bloggers: Play nice or the blog master will chop your posts!
Tom Ford
7:11 I have no chip. Try taking your own chip off your shoulder. Peace in 07.
AHEM - GREER WAS NOT ASKED TO LEAVE. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. Don't you remember all the whining on this blog because the aldermen were his "puppets" and WOULDN'T ask him to leave? you can't have it both ways!
6:57 Car allowance may have been a sore point but the cost of a C/A and Police Chief is still a lot MORE than a person doing both jobs, even with the $830 a mth car allowance. ever wonder if the real reason the mayor has asked for more taxs? Just maybe its because he has a police chief and a C/A to pay.
"ever wonder if the real reason the mayor has asked for more taxs?"
Yes, I have. It's probably because of the debt leftover from previous administrations.
All I can say about this double duty comment on the last blog is we sure got what we paid for - a total disaster. Onoe that will live in infamy.
6:41 PM, December 31, 2006
10:09 AM, January 03, 2007
7:05 PM, January 03, 2007
To the above posters: Do you really think that the majority of the bloggers on this post will believe anything you say? I agree with you, but I think you would be hard pressed for too many others to consider those facts.
the majority of the posters on this blog may be wrong in their understanding of reality.
I agree. Just wait until the can or worms is opened regarding Crestwood Mall! Can't wait. Sure the developer will want "assistance". We'll see what happens. Someone said demolition bids were in the works.
Can't wait? eh? Well good for you.
pithy reply if I do say so myself, who is your editor?
I have three editors: me, myself, and I.
and the answer is 76, the total IQ of all three!
wrecking ball at the mall? where did you read that? I'm left out of the loop I guess.
they're just stirring up dust...
4:56PM
Gee thanks! If my IQ is that high, maybe I could run for alderman?
620 how would you know you cant even sign your name
Neither did you, and you forgot the apostrophe between the n and t in can't.
...and the question mark after 'how would you know'.
so run already
6:20, Jan 4
You bet you could. With an IQ of 76 you could run in Ward 2 and be top dog.
IQ 74? getting up to Miguel levels
11:31 AM 1/5 I don't know who you are - not for sure, but I have a good idea; however, I always know your comments on this blog, because you always show your grade school mentality.
Your comments are what you would expect from what use to be referred to as a smart-alec. We all know your type. Just like people who pass you up in their car even though you are going the speed limit; then have nerve enough to give you "the finger" to insult you. The same type that do things to try to impress their so called friends cause nobody has told them they are not "cute".
This person constantly needs an audience and thinks by making snide remarks they are scoring points on this blog. I hope sir/madame, you don't do that to your children and your spouse.
And whoever you are, you already know your comments are not welcomed, but you choose to comment anyway. Why? Because you don't have to tell anyone who you are.
You get a charge out of making remarks that are unnecessary just to unnerve people as long as you can remain anonymous.
Sandy Grave
Sandy for Alderman in Ward Two in 2007!
I agree! Let's all talk to Sandy Grav`e and get her to run in Ward Two!
By By to our buddy this year for sure!
Tom Ford
11:31 AM blogger
What's your IQ?
Can you run for alderman in a city you sued?
10:18 AM Blogger. Interesting question! Like I said before on this blog, everybody thinks they are an authority on issues and it's no different with my lawsuit. Is what you hear correct? Not always.
There will be those who say no I can't run for office, and those who say yes. What I do know is if I did try to run for office, there would be a slurry of people out there who would be saying things heard from people who still have no clue about why I filed lawsuit, and you would also hear the words, "I heard that she... which could be hearsay and not necessarily correct. And, of course, there are enough lawyers in Crestwood that would be bringing their expertise on the subject of... if I can run or can't run. That's a given.
What I do know is that if I did run, I could do a great job and probably a better job than some, because I would be taking care of my people instead of playing politics. The job of alderman, means you take a oath, and to me that says you are giving your word that you will do what you are elected to do. That consists of guarding your people and protecting them from unneeded bureacacy, helping people in every way you can. It means always addressing their issues and trying your darnest to solve them. It doesn't mean you can solve every problem, but you go down trying. That is a tall order. It's hard very hard. Harder than most people realize. Can I do it? I know that I can. I took care of people all the time for over 30 years when I worked for the city. Especially under Pat Killoren. Like her or not, she was a worker for her people. She was an inspiration. Did she do everything right? No. But it wasn't because she didn't give 99% of herself. Further, you have to love the people in your ward and in Crestwood. You have to be a "care giver" and not a taker. And it wouldn't be all about "me" and my new big title or making myself the center of attention or trying to be a "big shot" or making myself look good. It would be about my people. Remember, the people I took an oath to serve?
And I know the difference between being a public servant, and a "blow hard", and fighting for the people in my ward, and what is right instead of playing politics. Politics should not enter the equasion. Aldermen work for their constituency and should be proud to do it. For what? For knowing that you made Crestwood a better place for them, that's for what!
I have never done anything wrong to walk around this city in disgrace; that's more than I can say about others who were suppose to be in positions of power.
If I sound a little up-i-ty, don't be too hard on me. I have run the gammit in this town, and I know what I am talking about and get very angry when I see how people in our city including myself have been manipulated.
Thank you very much for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
In a word, yes, you can run for Alderman in a City you sued, as long as you meet all the requirements of the intended office!
Now as to Mrs. Grav`e being an Alderman, I think it's a great idea! Just think, straight talk, no more foolish behavure from the Ward Two seat, and a woman who knows what this City need's!
Sandy, I will get all your signatures for you, heck I will put up the five bucks to file if you want to give it a shot! We need a major change here in ward Two, and your just the person to do it!
Tom Ford
sounds great! sandy can help push through the new animal control ordinance for you tom
12:14 PM Oh my gosh! Don't start on me please. I am a member of the Animal Control Board. I don't push anything without considering all the facts and what is in the best interest of the city. There is no way that I would ever NOT vote my conscience, and it doesn't matter who likes it or not.
However, I consider everything on the table before I make my decisions and not on politics. How about you?
However, I am not running for office so you don't have to worry about what I think.
Sandy Grave
12:14 PM blogger: "Push through the animal control ordinance?"
I am not for any new ordinance concerning animal control. In fact, I think we should eliminate that position completly and hire a new police or fire officer!
I have spoken to several officers who told me that the "animal control" officer is seldom there when they need her anyway, so why the expense?
Give that job to St. louis County animal control as other Muni's do, and save the salary for someone we can use!
Tom Ford
you're right. I tried to call animal control to help a stray dog during the ice storm - it was really suffering. no one answered the phone.
I don't think anyone answers that phone outside of normal business hours - and even then they sometimes don't. I think it would be just as effective contracting with St. Louis County.
If we eliminated animal control, that would save us what - around $100,000 when you add salary, benefits, car expense and maintenance, kennels, etc. That's a significant amount of money for what St. Louis County could do for us for little cost or nothing.
Priorities is what it is all about. When one is short on cash, he/she cuts back or goes in debt.
It looks like this animal control position is a popularity contest and a love for animals. But it does concern me that the person does not answer the phone and is often unavailable. What are they doing in the 40 hours they are paid for? Before getting your nose out of joint, how about an answer.
How about an in house study? Total cost for a city a. control officer and the cost of county control. A record of calls, kind of calls, etc.
Again, where is this person and what do they do in the 40 hours for which they are paid, plus benefits? What are the main kind of calls received? Check the records and get the facts.
Sometimes sacrifices have to be made. We just need to figure out where is best and leave out the dramatics. However, I would not approve of hiring another police officer or fireman to do this. That is totally ridiculous. We do not need to overdo it.
"Check the records and get the facts."???
Why? Let's just raise taxes. No need to scrutinize spending.
I agree, we need to scrutinize. Cost of animal control officer with benefits $65,000? Ms. Daily $75,000 saved if you dont replace her. Savings of not replacing police officer who recently quit approx. $60,000. Stop the warm and fuzzie meetings, another $9000. Dont spend the $1,000,000 surplus from Greer's 2006 budget for raises in 2007.
Total savings $1,209,000. That buys us a one year. Guess we put off any tax increase to 2008, an election year for Mayor, wanna bet about anyone running and supporting a tax increase? That buys another year.
Is that what you really want city to do?
Absolutely not. I think we should have at least 2 or 3 Economic Development Specialists. I think we should have at least 2 or 3 animal control officers. I think we should keep the "warm and fuzzie" meetings as you call them. All we need to do is raise taxes as much as possible. After all, the city should not serve us, we should serve the city.
8:25 am Those numbers you quote are great but how much does it take to run a city? How about maintenance and repairs on equipment; how about the money we borrowed on the community center we need to pay back? You got it all tied up in a neat package, but you have no idea how much money goes out on a monthly basis just to keep a city running.
Sandy Grave
Yes, Ms Grave, we do know how much it costs to run a city. Our concern easily matches yours. This is why positions that are dubious in their content should be the first to be considered. So that we can improve the ones that are necessary to our existance, pay off our debt and never have to hock our city hall and public works dept. again. This is a very small city which hit rock bottom. We have a new tax increase; it is not time to stop conserving. Rather it is time to reconsider all expenditures. It is not time to take sides when constructive discussion is taking place. It is time to listen and choose. Otherwise we are back to square one. Judging by ones emotions is not the most prudent thing to do.
2:44 pm Thanks for your honest and sincere reply. I appreciate your words and maybe your assessments would work. I don't know. I am running out of ideas. Your's however is really the first one that is do-able.
I have stated my opinion on the tax issue and the fact that I would like to see the animal control officer position stay trying to explain my reasons why. But I won't belabor the point any longer.
I am sorry if I get frustrated and get emotional about how things have faultered in Crestwood; all these years I never thought we would be in this position. But things happened and I just wish that we could fix them so we can get back on track again.
So, thanks again for your good remarks; I appreciate your frank and honest assessment.
Sandy Grave
Because it takes so much money to keep a city running smoothly is the very reason major concessions have to be made and consideration given to way to save money. We don't want our taxes raised to pay for things we can live without. Only for things which are a necessity. In our present state of affairs, it is mandatory that our officials and, most definitely Mr. Myers, make city lifestyle changes. We must also realize that in the doing, not all will be pleased. So it goes ...
Agree with that. Have a major concern, the rumor of the mall being torn up for a rebuild. If true and I know it is a IF, how will the City operated with greatly decreased sales tax income for the period of time the mall is "off line" since the reserves former mayor, boa and c/a were trying to save up is now gone?
The city will push for another property tax increase or two or three...
11:34 am Just one real good tax increase would do it. But trying to convince the people that it's time to get realistic will be a real big problem. If you want to win a popularity contest, you will be against it.
If you are looking down the road and to the bigger picture to get our city back to the status quo, to keep us from regressing any more than we already have, you will agree that a tax increase is needed.
I feel it is worth it. I also feel that those in the annexed area need to start contributing for their services.
WHAT RESERVE that was trying to be saved by former c/a, mayor and officials is gone??? (SEE FORMER BLOG)
I only heard about DEBT, i.e.the 2 M dollar LOC upped to 3.5 that was inherited and which included lots of expenses having nothing to do with streets, parks, salaries, fleets, etc. Expenses such as lawsuits, legal bills, architect and contractor fees, and a car allowance.
There was a big committee that worked for Prop S. How much effort went into deciding how big the tax increase should be. They sold this increase and now who is it bringing it back up?? Why didn't they wait and sum it up better and go for a realistic figure? Our city cannot continue to rush over every hole in the road with visions of sugar plums when so much is at stake. Always the big rush. Why! There is an election every April and many times in Nov.
Look at the 2006 budget, that ended with a million dollar surplus per mr. meyer who is now spending in in 2007. was in the paper!
Previous attempt of Prop 1 did not pass. Some say because the amount they were asking for was too high. I believe that it was an "up to $X figure" and the citizens were not comfortable with that. So now more money is needed - imagine that! I guess the previous administration was looking into the future of Crestwood, not just immediate fixes.
Please don't get on your soap box about how previous administration made the debt. I guess you had to be the one getting the information to realize why things went the way the did.
"Please don't get on your soap box about how previous administration made the debt."
You are correct. It was the past two administrations!
"I guess you had to be the one getting the information to realize why things went the way the did. "
So you were on the inside, with knowledge and information not available to us commonfolk???
all you "common folk" could have had the info and been on the "inside" if you had:
a. gone to BOA meetings
b. read minutes of BOA meetings
c. read the newspapers covering
meetings
d. didnt use the blog as their only source of information.
e. didnt believe everything you were told at your coffee at Mc Donald's in the morning, your lunch at Jack n the Box at noon and your work out at Whitecliff in the evening.
Thank you for the lecture. I will take notes and study diligently.
By the way, I also eat supper at Jack n the Box. I don't work out at Whitecliff - don't need to. I have a wonderful figure!
arent you just so proud of your little self?
Your the one who brought up the idea of the commonfolk and the insiders, not me. You have access to all the info you want to have to be as much an insider, (what ever the heck that is) as you want to be. Your not being so is your fault and no one else. Kind of like the we didnt know what we vote for spin that comes up once in a while on this blog.
2:23 Pm blogger: I understand how you feel, I am in shape myself!
Round is a shape!
Tom Ford
6:37 PM
Yes, I am very proud of myself.
And I follow Crestwood politics. I also know that the focus on the new police station, the defeasement of the bonds, and consultant's fees regarding same cost what - 2-3 million dollars?
Don't forget attornies fees as well for various lawsuits.
By the way, have you read the Commission 2000 report? Where is the desire of the people (the constituency, you know, the people the board is supposed to represent)in the city to build new police/city hall facilities? You will find that desire is almost at the bottom. Why then, did our wonderful and illustrious board ignore this and continue?
I also think an investigation should be started as to why a new police facility was not mentioned in the ballot language for the capital improvements extension or the ordinance that authorized it.
Have a nice evening.
Yawn.
Yawn! You're back! Rest well and have a good evening.
7:23 pm 1/12 I would like an answer to that question myself "why the ballot language and ordinance did not specifically state police facility". This is a real sore subject with me and others. 6:37 PM If you knew that the capital improvement sales tax was geared for a new police facility, you must have been with the "in crowd and the Greer crowd" because it never was stated or publicized to us that the tax was specifically to go to a multi-million dollar new police station. The chain of events for something that grandeous, gets total publicity, specific press releases, and communication so everyone knows what is going on. That's how it is done. We were blind-sided and side stepped and you know it.
If only a handful of people were complaining, it would be different; but how stupid to think that there are so many people that feel they were misled and misunderstood regarding what the Cap. Imp. tax was really about. No sir, we all can't be saying the same thing if it wasn't true.
Maybe in certain circles it was being said, but not to the majority of us. This whole issue was purposely soft pedaled. For something that big, it should have been spread in every newspaper in town.
I still want to see in big letters what all of the communications stated on this subject that were suppose to inform us specifically of a "police station for 14 million dollars" in the form of a capital improvement sales tax.
So don't even start on that one. Specifics on this have been asked for before, but have never been stated. I speaking of several sentences verbatim from newspapers or anything that delineates "police faclity" in any of the little publicity that went out.
When we set out to build a new community center, architectural renderings were all over the lobby and people knew exactly what was being done. People saw drawings of the new ballfield, etc.
We saw and heard nothing because we had a sneaky, underhanded leader that wanted to build an empire geared to his specifications, that's why we were keep in the dark; like a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed a lot of *****
yawn, yada yada yada yada yada,
YAWN, YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA,
yawn, yada yada yada yada yada.
YAWN, YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA,
yawn, yada yada yada yada yada.
Can you read this? If so you could have read the newspapers, the minutes of the BOA meetings, gone to those meetings and read the Crestwood Connection and you would have know what you were voting for.
I guess you knew that your property tax increase was gonna be used to by more debt, after all, it did say that in the ballot, in the newspapers, in the minutes of the BOA meetings, at the BOA meetings and in the Crestwood Connections, opps it wasnt there, demand an investigation why dont you?
Cry babys.
11:54 PM Go To Bed It's Late. If the majority of the people are at fault for not going to the meetings, etc. and so on, why did the whole capital improvement sales tax get "nixed" by the people???? For no good reason, I guess according to you! Answer that one big boy! Don't blame us! We are suppose to be protected and watched over by our elected officials remember?
Everybody can't get to board meetings, etc, because they have young children and booth spouses work and are involved in their children's activities. That's where our so-called MAYOR AND ALDERMEN are suppose to step in and take charge and watch our backs, so stop the "crapola". If this is all our fault, then why do we elect anybody; let's just let the people rule themselves without you guys. (I am assuming you are one of those who served on the board)
After a period of time, who on the board didn't know we had no money? They still were going to go through with this major, money mongering police facility.
They had a responsibility to us and they believed a power monger and let him rule as CA and railroad this police facility right threw just like he mismanaged all the other cities he worked in. But he did it so many times, every time he went to another city, he fine-tuned his techniques and got better at it including schredding documents and playing around with people he could manipulate. It's disgusting, it really is.
No more arguing this point with me, maybe others can chime in but it's ridiculous to try to change a closed mind.
You are the expert on closed minds.
That's not nice.
Gee kids can't we all just get along? You know what happened to the guy that said that!
That said, please let's stick to the facts of the case, and leave to personalities out of the picture.
Tom Ford
Excuse me Tom, but we are talking about a very sore subject regarding the ballot language on the CI Sales Tax, and it has nothing to do with personalities.
It seems that the blogger who burns the Midnight Oil at 11:54 PM has his nose out of joint and wants to blame the people for "not knowing what they voted on" with the capital improvement sales tax.
The people did not know because they were not told. People are not mind readers. Show me where anything was said anywhere about a "14 million dollar police facility relegated to a Cap. Imp. Sales Tax; don't tell me, show me.
I agree with the blogger at 7:23 pm who stated this whole subtrifuge should be investigated.
People can go on forever and try to make the people in Crestwood look like the "fools" in this particular case, but the mayor and board were responsible for watching for our best interest and were too mezmerized by the CA whose responsibilities include getting all the facts out to the people.
The CA is in charge of press releases and meetings with the people so they can ask questions. You think this issue was suppose to fall into place like something that is normal city business?
This was a multi-million dollar deal and was purposely never treated like it.
It's easier to just blame us and let the elected officials get by with being brain washed by a dictator. I don't feel they should get by with it. If the facts were there in the first place, The CI Tax would have never gone through in the first place. It was never communicated properly cause they knew we would be against it. It's obvious that the mayor and board and the infamous CA didn't do their jobs and thank heavens we the people won in "spite" of the administration's desire to keep us uninformed at that time.
Blah, Blah all you want blogger. It's Sticks and Stones to me. The worst of the whole issue to me is that Crestwood residents were made out to be too dumb to know what was before them. The number of signatures received to put it to rest, tells the real story!
People are fools when they vote for or against something they do not know about.
We all know that any langue written by a lawyer will be completly Greek to the layman.
What I want to know is why can't all the issues be written in the clearest layman terms, instead of "shall a dog be allowed in Crestwood park sans a leash?," and other so called terms where one thing really means another! Older folks read this and think they cant have a dog in the park (forget the leash part.)
Forget the City attorney writing these things and let a common citizen have a go at it for a change. The City attorney can allways "go over the draft, and make changes (if needed) before the final draft.
Can't hurt, saves our paying $250.00 per hour to write something few understand, and hey, it might just work!
Tom Ford
Well Tom, there are "attorneys" and then there are "attorneys". There are two kinds. The ones that know the law and try to find ways according to the law to help cities do things legally; and then there are those who know the law so well, they try to get around it.
Why any attorney couldn't see that the ballot language never even mentioned what the capital improvement sales tax was really for (a 14 million dollar police facility) tells me someone had to be responsible for allowing the language to be placed that way on the ballot.
But I would like to know for sure, who is really in charge of the ballot language in the first place. Is it the City Attorney or what. Since the city attorney's responsibility is always to look over ordinances to see if they are correct, does he in fact, also ascertain the ballot language or how does it get placed on the ballot by someone else like maybe the CA?
Anyone got the answer?
St Louis County Board of Elections have final say on the language of a ballot. Ballot is drawn up by a city's lawyer who sends to them for their ok and publishing of the offical ballot
Does the Board of Elections merely proofread the ballot language or also check for content and clarity?
Honestly, you would have to ask them, I just gave you what I knew to be the "flow" of the ballot.
Thanks to a group of residents who took the bull by the horns and gained enough signatures to stop the lease at Westfield, the city hall fiasco was stopped in its tracks. This was a proud moment for our city. History making.
Each blog on this subject line has its viewpoint. Here is mine. While I agree "The Don" fostered this Million Dollar Baby, he apparently had the support of some very bad mini politicians, who were either too dumb to see the writing on the wall or did not have a clue as to the condition of the vault. Or both! Officials who turned over the city to its CA and then closed their eyes should all spend more time with their family.
However, one has to wonder how any of this could get off first base without the collusion of a city attorney and mayors who were attorneys. What are we getting for over $200/hour from our legal eagle? Huh??? Was the ballot skewed to confuse. Well, what do you think? I think the ballot language was totally inept.
Power can be a dangerous thing. To give it away so easily to an unelected employee borders on municipal insanity and pure laziness. Now that the so called perp has "left the building," I can only say that from now on when an alderman questions matters (not to grandstand, but rather to inquire) at a meeting and gets slighted - you can bet your egg money my eyes and ears will light up and listen up and I will go into suspicious mode and I will further challenge all my friends and neighbors to watch closely for signs of the past repeating themselves.
And when/if the slimy tag team politics rears its ugly head again, we will be taking notes and most likely determine that these playground bully games are exactly why we step 2 steps back for each step forward we take. Officials who run to help their city should be predisposed to vote thier own mind. This, too, we are watching. Closely.
"mini politicans"
"slimy tag team"
"playground bully games"
"perp"
"egg money"
"supicious mode"
Your message is clear, but "gag me with a spoon" already, just say what you meant and leave all the soap opera stuff for the Great American Novel class your taking at night school. . Please!
6:58 PM What's your problem? I think that descriptive adjectives made by 6:34 PM blogger are perfectly suited to a few personalities we have seen and heard before. If these remarks bother you so much, maybe it's because you resemble them. Otherwise, why bother to comment. If the shoe fits, wear it. Get what I mean?
Thin skin?
No spoon big enough pod-ner.!
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