January 24, 2007 issue of the Suncrest Call, or who said what?
Click on the header and find out what all the up-roar about profane language, is all about here in Crestwood!
Is this for real, or is it "memorex?"
Tom Ford
NO.278
Is this for real, or is it "memorex?"
Tom Ford
NO.278
posted by Crestwood Independent at 16:55
68 Comments:
To use profanity is a reflection of one's vanity!
If you have an open mind your brains might fall out!
I used to date a banker, but she lost all interest!
Politics is the art of preventing people from taking part in affairs which properly concern them.
Paul Valery (1871 - 1945), Tel Quel 2 (1943)
Sound familiar?
Tom Ford
I thought Steve Nieder was a supporter of the mayor's? I'm surprised he would insult him like this. Who is he implying didn't do their job? The city administrator didn't properly manage an employee? Kim Cottle? She is a great lady and was a great employee the last I heard.
Steve Nieder supported Roy Robinson when he ran for mayor. Why Robinson would say that is beyond me.
The times I've dealt with Kim Cottle, she was very prompt, courteous, and professional.
Where is the profanity? Reading the article, asinine is the only word I can think of that comes close. But it is an actual word, not a swear word. Look it up in Webster's:
asinine: an adjective meaning complacent or inanely foolish
Synonyms are fatuous, inane, mindless, and vacuous
And 5:27 and 5:28, thanks for the jokes. Theyre good ones.
"Why Robinson would say that is beyond me. "
Have you not been to BOA meetings and seen the mayor behave this way??? It has happened many times.
Will the city attorney be at the Town Hall meeting? I would like to know how these federal, state and new city rules would or have previously held up in court? Are we at risk for more lawsuits? Haven't we had enough of that? I don't know if I agree with the wisdom of letting only 3 unexperienced people create new rules then have them pushed through very quickly and what at least appears to be secretively. Like Martha said, there hadn't been rules updated for 10 years, shouldn't we take a little time to decide. I'm interested in the legal cousel aspect. For goodness sakes, I don't like lawyers, but sometimes they can save us money.
12:39 AM Nobody is pushing anything through quickly. Three inexperienced people? Who should we get? It always worked years ago! The only reason why it stopped working in the last ten years had nothing to do with the people who were appointed to the committee.
The one CA who was in charge of personnel ignored the voices of the chairmen, and the recent CA wanted his own rules. Therefore, the whole concept of Civil Service hit a stone wall when presenting it to the administration.
Martha Duchild made a statement at a board meeting about how much time has been wasted already, and got accused of wanting to "push it through". Now everybody is an authority and everybody is all up in arms.
Sandy Grave
It just appears as hypocritical for a reformer like Martha to start using the same techniques that she opposed in the last administration, that's all. sometimes a person's passion for an issue can create an aura of haste. For one, the BOA wants to discuss this document in depth. Two, the citizens want to understand, just as the Charter Commission issues, why these changes are needed. Everyone also wants to know how much these changes will cost. And lastly, they have raised the aura of suspicion by not including public notices in easily accessibly, friendly places. The overall appearance is one that we've seen before. You must admit, if this had been handled differently, with a little more tact, then there wouldn't be such issues. Mistakes, upon impatience, followed by exasperation. On both sides!
I agree with most of your positions, Sandy. And I like Martha. But we need to operate this city as a business, and leave the personalities out of it.
I'm not sure if there is an "aura of haste." There is a work session about the civil service rules this Tuesday. And you can't blame Martha, although many people have that on their agenda. It isn't the responsibility of committee members to poste meeting notices or take minutes.
I agree, but it would have been nice to see that people who want to create rules for the entire city, can make sure that the most basic ones are being followed as well. For goodness sake, let's identify the problems and fix them logically. There's always some sort of cat fight going on.
They tried and tried.
11:43 AM
If this city was a business, and had to survive as a business, it would have went under years ago. But government(s) can fail and fail and it(they) have the great cushions of enormous bureaucracies and the wallets of the taxpayers.
Furthermore, it is the function of the city clerk, who works for the city administrator, to post the meeting notices and the minutes.
What's really scary was the fact that the civil service board stagnated for many years.
11:43 AM
Regarding the Charter Changes and the citizens - citizens were sent a multipage pamphlet at a cost of $4,000+ telling them to vote on those changes.
This website is asinine.
It's a blog, not a website per se.
Per se is nice, but I much prefer purse B.
Good one!!!
What do you call a guy who gets drunk and foolish while playing golf?
Assinine.
11:43 AM I am willing to keep personalities out of it, as long as others do the same. I am happy that everyone on the board of aldermen wants to understand what it is going on and wants to take time.
I am exhilarated that for once Civil Service isn't being ignored any long.
And if people can just cut the civil service board some slack and take into consideration that no minutes, no notices and no "anything" were available to them to see what protocol was used for doing things, I am fine with it.
All other boards and commissions can look at the minutes of the past meetings and have a department head from police, fire, parks & rec. and public wks. to guide them how to proceed. They had nobody.
And conversely, if the board of aldermen needs time, so be it.
But I can see how Ms. Duchild feels making conversation with some aldermen members, since her appointment was originally rejected by the board of aldermen the first time. Therefore, I am sure that it's not easy speaking to people who have a negative against her to begin with.
As someone else mentioned on this blog, had Kelleher been at the meeting for her appointment the second time, she wouldn't have been chosen at all. So it wouldn't be something that would leave her or anyone warm and fuzzy.
Thanks again for listening.
Sandy Grave
Again, an example of inaccuracies. Alderman Kelleher ws present at that meeting. Check it out on the web site
Did someone mention cat fight? MEOW!!!
4:23 PM Inaccuracies? Somebody other than me, initiated that remark comments ago. I just took the blogger at his/her word that Mr. Kelleher wasn't at the meeting.
If you read all of the blog comments you would know someone else said it. If you did your research you could have clarified that to them not me. At least I sign my name. What about you? too scared?
Anyhow, what is your point? What you are really telling me is that that you would rather catch a "boo boo" I made instead of listening to the content of my whole comment.
So now it's settled and Mr. Kelleher was at the meeting. Now go from there. Maybe you can continue and tell everyone that Mr. Kelleher still voted against Ms. Duchild's appointment.
Splitting hairs are we? Have at it? I made my point, but again, no point is as important as yours.
Feel better now? This is where I stop. I don't indulge in cat fights but it is interesting that 5:58 pm feels this blogger at 4:53 is a female.
Sandy Grave
Sandy Grave
"This website is asinine."
1:37 PM, January 26, 2007
Well that said it all didn't it! And to think that this gentle blogger still reads it.
Now that say's a lot about you, gentle blogger, if you think it to be "asinine," yet you still read it, well, nuff said!
Tom Ford
While searching the internet for information about a possible sale of Crestwood Plaza (I heard it was done, but no info being released), I came across the following:
http://deadmalls.com/malls/crestwood_plaza.html
A whole website, or rather blog, dedicated to "dead malls". Such an honor that Crestwood is included.
Just sharing because the article gives an interesting history of Crestwood Plaza that others might enjoy.
Don't know if any minutes yet of the boa meeting where the civil service changes were presented, but ms. duchild definitely told the aldermen repeatedly she wanted her work passed that night despite their objections. I think that's also detailed in the call article. It was actually quite funny - the aldermen said they weren't prepared to take action on an incomplete document, she said well she wanted them to, they repeate themselves, then she repeated herself. She had to know there weren't any minutes - she never voted to approve them. are you really saying she doesn't know they take minutes of meeetings? which would be pretty funny too because she loves to quote previous meeting minutes of the boa!
She really gets to you doesn't she?
Hey 7:40! I beg to differ! No she did'nt. I was there Karen!
It would appear so!
Good Grief, I have read this entire stream of notes and I have never seen such a waste of time in my life. Bottom line...
Cities have Civil Service codes because they need them
They should be reviewed and revised occasionally
This is usually done by an appointed board
This is being done in Crestwood
Ms Duchild is not seeking to overthrow the government
Knock off this constant barage of negativity people, and the politics, and the character assinations, etc. It is so not necessary.
Let the BOA study this and do their job
AMEN!
I know Mrs. Duchild, and Mrs. Trueblood, and I can tell you that when either of them says, or does anything, it's going to be for the good of Crestwood!
I am positive that everyone who writes on this blog believes in Crestwood, and has a idea of where they want Crestwood to go.
You see we all have ideas, plans, and hope's for the future, but we work with very different map's to get there.
If we listen to each other, the BOA, and Mayor listen to us, we have an excellent chance of progress!
Please do not dismiss out of hand anyones ideas, for somewhere in their idea is common ground to start a meaningfull dialog, and get the problem solved.
Tom Ford
11:24 Amen twice over.
Sandy Grave
I think Burke Wasson says in his article he was there and quotes ms. civil service in her insistence. She doesn't understand that she's not an alderman!
That's wrong. The story says Ms. Duchild wanted to discuss, not vote, on it at the board meeting and not later because all the other civil service members couldn't be at the next BOA meeting. She never said she wanted it approved that night. Quit twisting the story for your own agenda. The CALL got it right. You read it wrong.
Why did the mayor attack the JR. alderman from ward 4 for asking a question? Arent Aldermen allowed under this mayor to ask questions?
Also, who did put Alderman Nieder up to it?
11:28 am Read the story again written in The Call about Ms. Duchild by Mr. Wasson or read the comment at 11:52 am and stop the nonsense.
From what I have seen the mayor has more than ruffled the feathers of two of his allies Alderman Miguel and Nieder. Why is he doing this? Is it because he know realizes that what he ran on and what they supported is now undo able IE: He was opposed to TIF CID, TDD, now he supports it? Or is it pure politics on his part? He is now on record as blaming this Board for actions that upset the voters, IE: the $9000 consultant fee.
Anyone care to venture a guess on what all this means. cause I don't
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=asinine
Asinine
Adjective
1. foolish, unintelligent, or silly: stupid
2. of or like an ass: asinine obstinacy; asinine features
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/asinine
Synonyms of Asinine:
Philistine, blundering, boorish, bovine, churlish, coarse, dense, doltish, gross, indelicate, inelegant, loutish, lowbrow, lumpish, oafish, obtuse, raw, rough, rude, stupid, uncouth, unrefined, vulgar, witless
Antonyms of asinine:
delicate, kind, nice, refined, sensitive, tactful
I think it is time for supplying chewing gum for our Mayor and BOA so they can keep their mouth shut when in doubt!!!
Please no bubbles with the gum!
Since we have spent a lot of money on consultants, can we hire a Business Etiquette trainer for our Mayor.
Can we allow a budget for our Public Officials attending the Emily Post Speaker's seminar.
Toastmasters is a great weekly club to practice your use of words!
http://www.emilypost.com/speakers/speakers.htm#four
http://www.emilypost.com/in_print/books.htm#men
Essentials Manners for Men by Peter Post for $19.95
There may be a copy in our St. Louis County Library.
Maybe our Mayor has gotten lazy with his grammar due to his retirement.
Time to brush up on his public speaking skills!
I would surely like to know of what caliber your public speaking skills are. The press attacks every little faux pas by a politician. It sells. It surely did here, where this story is all the rage. Evidenced by Howard Dean, an eminently intelligent man that was defined by one "yee-ahh". Boy, did everyone print, and blog, and post for all that was worth. And it just goes to show that politics is just a popularity contest.
If you can find a spotless, expertly spoken, politician that is all-encompassed with love by every single person and never, but never, makes a grammatical error, then I'll vote for him.
Unfortunately, I think his name is Jesus Christ. And he won't be running for this office anytime soon. And if he did, someone would find something to get him on, even if they had to make it up. Come to think of it, that already happened.
No offense to those of you that have a different faith.
My point is, there will always be the likes of persons that want to criticize every little inflection.
Us normal people just view it as hateful.
"Our interest in voting and the specific votes we cast in the next election will be shaped by the stories we create and subscribe to in this interlude. It would be my hope that we examine and deconstruct the false fear pictures and masterful media manipulations (including at times outright lies and exaggerations on both sides) that have likely led to the views of many in their political positions."
-- Mark Weaver
Just as true in Crestwood!
Tom Ford
It's not OK to hold the spokesman of our City the Mayor up to a high standard of speaking? Are you saying poster 2:04 that the mayor's attack on Alderman Nieder was just a slip of the tongue or the newspapers fault because they reported it?
Your solution/defense of the mayor is interesting, claim that "normal" people such as yourself will find it hateful.
Well normal people like this poster find it strange that this mayor has no problem attacking in the press those who in the past supported him.
This normal person recalls the fact that this mayor demands to be the official spokesperson of the City, so this normal person would think the mayor would be prepared to speak with out embarrassing himself and the city. Who cares what any other normal person's speaking skills are, they are not the mayor of the city, Roy is.
Closing question to you poster 2:04, Alderman Kelleher is attacked on this blog over many different issues. One of them being the fact that his face color is red and posters think this is because of a drinking problem. Don't you think what is happening to Kelleher is like what is happening to the mayor whose defense you rush to? Ever think that Kelleher does not have a problem other than he blushes easily?
What, from your understanding of the Son of God, What would Jesus do?
While we are on the subject, what was wrong with Alderman Nieder asking about the pay plan? I know the mayor has said we cant afford it, which is not true. Truth is the mayor either doesn't understand the pay plan and therefore doesn't want it, or he wants to reward everybody the same amount, like a union contract would call for.
At 2% pay increase across the board is a very poor way of spending the city's money. A better way using the pay plan would have been to instruct the dept heads to reward the best performing employees of their dept with an increase as long as the total amount of increase did not cause the depts. cost to increase more than 2%. The way the mayor did it every body got the same raise, which is a slap in the face to those who out performed their fellow workers. Would you work any smarter, harder, or better if the person dragging their feet got the same increase as you did?
The across the board increase fits the union method of same pay for everybody that most unions want. Nieder seems to have seen that and asked the question. I wonder who did put him up to it? Grandstanding, Nieder never has demanded to be the official spokesperson for the city.
The mayor should have never said that - as head of the city, he represents the city and is its spokesman.
Yes, there is a larger issue here: why did the mayor get so upset? What was wrong with the question? What's the "back story"?
5:16 Kelleher blushes easily? He should blush in shame for his ignorance at the board meetings and his attitude.
Kelleher can do whatever he wants in his own personal life but when he is on the board representing his ward, he shouldn't act so "ascinine".
Poster from 2:04 responds:
I hold no special regard for anyone in particular.
My statements reflect the fact that anyone can have a mistep, including speaking his thoughts out loud when the press is around. "yee-ahh" again. He may have thought what he did.. at a time when he wasn't prepared to not say it. Have you ever been quoted in the press? They like to print things that will stir people up. Can't wait for the next Suncrest Call can you?
For instance, have you ever said anything that you later regretted?
All I'm saying is, hold ANY politician to the same standards we hold ourselves.
They make faux pas.
Speaking of Alderman Neider, this is not the first time he's grandstanded, as he has many times tried to prove that he's on the ball (rightly so), he sometimes asks the hard, redundant questions without listening to the answer.
I believe that's why Roy said the word "assinine". Maybe he should have said "aggravating" or "persistent". Who knows.
Who cares?
All I am seeing is a big deal made out of a guy saying a word. "yee-ahh".
Some people are just using it as proof of what a country bumpkin he is. And frankly, I don't care. He's done some really good work so far. Leave his speech patterns, as unacceptable to some as they may be, out of the conversation about if he's accomplished his job.
Let's get down to brass tacks here.
There are two sides to this story..those that want their side back in power, and those that like Roy. We all know this story, Tim.
Directly copied from the pages of the Crestwood Political Review.blogspot.com, author Tim Trueblood, April 27th, 2006:
"The Mayor going to Las Vegas is a waste of our tax money. Ms. Dailey and Mr. Myers are well trained and they should go as our representatives. They will not make promises or statements that are an embarrassment to our City .."
This string of condemnations for the Mayor's statements most likely come from the above sources.
Thanks blogger, for helping me with that one. It sure did sound familiar.
Is the Mayor upset that Charles Berry lost to Steve Neider?
There is a pattern of how our Mayor picks on Alderman Neider for questioning the Mayor.
What is the agenda of our Mayor?
We know he promised a pay raise for certain public officials and promotions but what else is in store for the City of Crestwood.
How bad did Mayor Roy Robinson really want to be our Mayor? What did he give up for the title?
Where does Mayor Roy Robinson park his new red truck?
No one has seen his new red truck in his driveway!
Are you drunk? I've asked you to stop making these comments like you're an insane person. You're hurting my chances of looking like I hang out with intelligent people.
So who did Mayor Roy Robinson promise a certain pay plan?
It will eventually come out!
I think everyone has a right to "come out". Are you trying to tell us something? We're all friends here.
Okay. Well call later if you want to talk in private.
Why is it verboten to say bad things about some people on this blog but it is okay to talk about one of the alderman's red face and imply that he has a drinking problem.
If Mr. Ford really truly cared about Crestwood he would shut down this blog....And instead...
He would run for Alderman again
OR
Encourage the city to hold public forums on issues
Or
Volunteer to hold these forums himself at the Crestwood Rec Center to discuss current issues
Or ask the alderman to host public forums regarding issues in their ward
That way...people would not be able to say nasty things about current or past alderman, insult the mayor, spread rumours, lies or other falsehoods about past events, business deals or other occurences in this town.
Really, what positive purpose does it serve other than allow Mr. Ford and his band of crackpots to call people racists, promote rumours, insult elected officials and encourage falsehood?
Amen - stated perfectly!!!
This blog serves many purposes, most of which are social, not political. Some people here are so obsessive they log in like therapy. There are numerous innuendos about former allegiances, hidden agendas, secret aspirations, etc. etc..
Former friends turn against each other and make statements signed anonymous. It's almost ridiculously apparent when their political allegiances fall apart. Two-faced, back-stabbing, plotting, scheming, soap-opera politics. Anyone can watch in real time who's turned on whom, and what scheming plot is afoot next (then print it in the paper..Hee Hee). Where is the mayor's truck parked, who is to blame for verbaging away multi-million dollar deals, who was a womanizer, why aldermen are character assassinated, when alliances with certain politicos can ruin a man's reputation and policial career, planting seeds of rumor to destroy people's reputations. Dynasty!
And to think that the community I used to live was focused on things like seeing each other at the Farmer's Market and local restaurants, and having get-togethers with our kids at each other's homes, wine-tasting and book clubs. I'm fascinated, yet disgusted. The only reason I've caught up on this blog in the last two weeks is because I am laid-up for a time and have a lot of time on my hands, home alone, my children are grown. I surely wished I had had the choice of moving to a community that wasn't trying to tear itself apart, nickel by nickel.
I think I'll just leave you all to your bickering, and hope that you all can find some responsible people to lead this town.
I'm going through a temporary lonely spell..some of you all are just plain lonely. You might want to ask yourself, WHY?
Tom, any chance you'll run for Mayor?
"Really, what positive purpose does it serve other than allow Mr. Ford and his band of crackpots to call people racists, promote rumours, insult elected officials and encourage falsehood?"
Now that's a happy reader! have we gotten too close to the TRUTH for you gentle blogger?
"Mr. Ford and his band of crackpots" have worked to better this community since the new "police Palace" was defeted! We will continur to keep a sharp eye on silly spending like that in the future as well.
There are two alternatives for you here, quit reading the blog (we would miss you though, so don't do that,) or pony up the $125.00, and the expertise, and you can start an opposing blog with all the ---------- ideology you feel is fit to print.
One thing though, if you do that, don't be too thin skinned, and don't take it to heart when someone you don't know insults you. My friend, this blog will continue with, or, without you, but we all hope and pray you stay with us, as I am sure sooner or later you will have an idea we all want to hear!
Tom Ford
4:32PM blogger: Thank you for the vote of confidence! I doubt that I would get the vote from the poster above you though!
There are several reasons that I would not consider a run for Mayor, not the least of which is health related.
We have a Mayor now that cares about Crestwood (the first one since Pat Killoran,) and to me he is doing the job well.
We have others that I have met since running for Alderman who would also make fine choices, so why add me?
Let's all get behind the person of our choice, work hard, get them elected, and move Crestwood forward
Tom Ford
Perfect example of what I am talking about...Tom Ford claims that "This is the first mayor that cares about Crestwood since Pat Killoren" How do you know this?.... How can you make such a statement? Are you a mind reader? Would you be comfortable making such a statement to the faces of the other mayors? Doubt it....
2:00 PM Tom Ford made a statement about Pat Killoren and does so because it is his opinion based on the years he has been in Crestwood. Why would he have to explain himself on this? Can't you figure it out for yourself? Are you saying he has no right to his opinion? And, if the other mayors were honest, they would probably agree with Tom because Pat Killoren was a "hands on" mayor who was at city hall every day and was the hardest working mayor I have known and I go back to right after Paul Koenig. And you would have never heard anything bad come out of her mouth about anyone including her enemies which is more than I can say for the some people today and on this blog.
2:20PM blogger: Would I feel comfortable? Would I make such a statement to the other mayors faces?
In a word, YES! let's get them on this blog where the comments are available to all, and we will debate it(as long as they are willing to sign their name, they would do that, right?)
In my humble opinion, no one who cares about this town could have allowed the drain on our bank account by lawyer fees, law suits, ill advised police buildings, TIF,TDD,CID programs that have taken the vast majority of funds from us over the years!
Crestwood has been a political play ground for far too long, you know it, I know it, and so do the readers of this blog! We must stop the "emperers new cloths syndrome" befor it's too late!
Were where we are for a reason, failed leadership, and that my friend is not "caring about Crestwood!"
Tom Ford
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