The TDD meeting for Crestwood Point.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I attended the Crestwood point TDD meeting today, and I believe I came away with a better understanding of where this is going. There is a sense of urgency to move this thing forward, but as I see it, it can't be done until all the facts are in.
Comments made by the TDD board members showed me that they were no where near approval of this funding to THF in the amount of $850,000.00 for the two parcels of property know as the Rosebrook Realty/ swim club, and the City hall parking lot (deeded to the City by the swim club for $1.00!)
They have selected a new appraiser to re-think the $88,000.00 that originally was give by St. Louis County, and that appraiser has a clause in his bid that says the public may not be informed of the name of the appraiser, nor any of the contents of the appraisal! Mayor Robinson said that the clause would have to change for the City to accept their proposal, so we shall see.
All in all, the contract will have to be amended for us to accept the appraiser, the City will have to approve it, the BOA will have to approve it, and then if we are all in agreement the new appraisal will take place.
The next hurdle in this chess game is for THF, Armstrong Teasdale attorneys to prove to us that this is correct (to re-emburse the THF, Rosebrook Realty $850,000.00 to buy the parcel of land.) They didn't come close today believe me!
"Trust but verify" as Ronald Reagan said, so on to the next meeting! As I have said many times, explain to me like I'm a three year old how this is can stand the light of day!
Look for extensive reporting on this as Mr. Burke Wasson of the Suncrest Call was in attendance, so wait for next Wednesday's edition to be on your lawn, or on the blog!
Tom Ford
NO.281
Comments made by the TDD board members showed me that they were no where near approval of this funding to THF in the amount of $850,000.00 for the two parcels of property know as the Rosebrook Realty/ swim club, and the City hall parking lot (deeded to the City by the swim club for $1.00!)
They have selected a new appraiser to re-think the $88,000.00 that originally was give by St. Louis County, and that appraiser has a clause in his bid that says the public may not be informed of the name of the appraiser, nor any of the contents of the appraisal! Mayor Robinson said that the clause would have to change for the City to accept their proposal, so we shall see.
All in all, the contract will have to be amended for us to accept the appraiser, the City will have to approve it, the BOA will have to approve it, and then if we are all in agreement the new appraisal will take place.
The next hurdle in this chess game is for THF, Armstrong Teasdale attorneys to prove to us that this is correct (to re-emburse the THF, Rosebrook Realty $850,000.00 to buy the parcel of land.) They didn't come close today believe me!
"Trust but verify" as Ronald Reagan said, so on to the next meeting! As I have said many times, explain to me like I'm a three year old how this is can stand the light of day!
Look for extensive reporting on this as Mr. Burke Wasson of the Suncrest Call was in attendance, so wait for next Wednesday's edition to be on your lawn, or on the blog!
Tom Ford
NO.281
posted by Crestwood Independent at 18:27
36 Comments:
Thanks Tom for the timely update on the meeting. It is good to have eyes and ears taking it all in when we can't make it. It is appreciated.
This whole swim club situation has become a spider web and one which needs to see the light of day. This one plus the $650,000 cost of paving the parking lot I recently read about. How about let's get some answers on this, too? Pretty sure it is time to quit being gullible. Do ya Think?
Why would an appraiser insist on having his name kept a secret? Wow, this is big time suspect. You know like the tooth fairy. What other secrets were there? Permits, codes, etc. etc. What is the name of the contractor who built the pool, could it be his brother-in- law is an alderman? How can a new appraiser appraise a pool that is no longer there? Hmmmm. Who in their right mind would push this thing through and get away with it? Know any Ex-politicals who had a hand in this? Betcha do cause there is a whole decade of them. I have had many of them at my front door.
Interesting that the City A. and the Assist. City A. are gone and the former City Attorney quit. The ones there when the Kohl's TIF was sashayed through. Remember the big rush, the deadline the City A. of the time told the board had to happen ASAP re: BONDS. Like almost OVERNIGHT ACTION MUST BE TAKEN?
For my part, it bears the attention of the State's Attorney General when something this obvious and brazen happens. Good grief $88,000 to $850,000. Is this inflation or what? I must write a note to myself to find the author of this deal and change over my portfolio.
Not only is this outrageous, but think about it ... count the years and the number of board members and elected officials who have suddenly become civic minded and served during the time this all took place. Does this not bother you? Did they honestly not think this would land in the Biz Bag and come out in the wash? Mrs D's husband was an originator of Rosebrook Rlty for gosh sakes and the list of officials during and since who are club memebers has been notable and checkable.
But the real test for me came when this blog was born and questions started to fly and anonymous swim club members started throwing snowballs. It has been a real trip. They have displayed their colors and actually their worst fears. They are not anonymous. We know who each of them are. They were not smart enough to reign in their tribe. Then when it started to get really rough, they sorta faded. Anyone notice that? I even hear their leader is moving.
So, if there is anyone running for office in April and they belong to the Swim club, I would have to in good faith say "not on your life;" we don't need anymore placeholders. Be sure and check this out fellow bloggers. We don't need people who fake civic responsibility to protect their private club built in resident backyards on the back of a parking lot shared by the city that cost $650,000 to pave and with a profit of $762,000. There is something wrong with this picture and Crestwood Tax Payers had best insist that "Now Is The Time For All Good Men To Come To The Aid Of Their City!"
Gosh, just think with a little luck we can let our newest Developer down yonder at Applebee's Plaza become the next chapter in the "Rise and Fall" of Life In The Commercial Lane of Crestwood. Then the next generation can inherit the next chapter of "It Was the Worst of Times ...."
Or, we can straighten this 'un out NOW! The word INSIST comes to mind.
No one is commenting because no one cares about this anymore. If THF does not get paid back...who are they going to go after? The pool? The City? ARe they going to cease developing any further projects in Crestwood? whatever.
ditto
3:06 and 3:13
Dream on little dreamers, dream on.
Sceeeeered.
Don't be sceeeeeered. Just face reality.
What an odd comment by the poster at 3:19. It really makes one question their motivation? What do they hope will happen if THF Does NOT get reimbursed. First of all it is probably part of the cost of doing business...you win some you lose some. If that is not THF's belief. I am certain that there will some sort of negative repercussions involving the City of Crestwood. Either they want to pool to somehow suffer???? OR some individuals will "get what is coming to them" Not really clear. Very strange...At some point this will probably label Crestwood as a place that is NOT friendly to development. In fact, they (local developers) are probably laughing about the odd cast of characters (in Crestwood)that are upset about having to pay an increased sales tax at a single store in town and are willing to keep needed improvements from happening...all because they feel ......? Please explain
Question the motivation all you want. All I'm saying is that THF is intent on getting remimbursed, plain and simple.
I think a lot of developers are laughing at Crestwood. Where else can a developer go and get a $2 million dollar CID from our illustrious board rather quickly while existing business have a heck of time getting a sign variance??? It's laughable in some instances, but quite sad in others.
Maybe Crestwood has become "developer friendly" while maintaining its reputation with existing businesses.
Ok folks, more information on the TDD from the meeting (well, actually after the meeting.)
The part of land where the Kohl's back parking lot is now, is not eligible to be re-embursed by the TDD, period.
We now move to the part where the City parking lot, and the pool are. This is known a parcel number two. This is where it becomes somewhat convluted, so please bear with me.
What we have here is about 2/3 of an acre, give or take. This portion of land can come under the TDD (so they say,) so we shall consider this part only.
In 2002 during the Month of October (on or about the 22nd.,) the Crestwood Swim Club/ Rosebrook Realty deeded the portion of that land (the parking lot) to the City Of Crestwood for $1.00 and other considerations.
In December of 2002 THF Realty wrote a check to Rosebrook Realty/ Swim Club for $850,000.00 for the parcel #2 mentioned above (unless there was a division of the property that is not evident to me at this time.) Now at this moment, it's not clear as to who the deeded owner of record of the parking lot was, Crestwood, or Rosebrook. There was also mention of some $675,000.00 for parking lot repairs to the City Hall parking lot.
As you can tell we are dealing with who owes what to whom here, and from what I gathered from the meeting as well as the after meeting, meeting it would appear that the City has no liability in this matter at all, but then again I am not a lawyer. As I see it this is something that should be between THF, and Rosebrook Realty/ Swim Club, and not our problem.
It's true that many of us a dead set against this TDD being issued, and we should be, so if you feel as I do that this was a private deal, join with me to insure that this is not passed by the TDD board or our BOA!
Tom Ford
Tom Ford
No, wrong - THF and Kohl's. Period.
8:31PM Blogger: If your a member of the club, I would oil up the hinges of your check book! You may need it sooner rather than later!
Wrong is correct! This deal is wrong, and Khol's or THF is not a fault here!
Tom Ford
From the RFT, just a reminder of how others view this.
Pooling the Money
To the TIF victors go the spoils in Crestwood
By D.J. Wilson
Years from now, when people stop at Sappington and Watson roads in Crestwood to buy a Croft & Barrow sweater or a pair of Sonoma jeans at the Kohl's "That's More Like It" store, chances are they won't know they're paying an extra three-eighths-cent sales tax for the suburban burg's new transportation-development district.
Nor will they know that the tax increase enabled the members-only Crestwood Swim Club to sell off 1 acre of land with an aging private swimming pool, currently appraised at $88,000, for $750,000. But in St. Louis County, with its 91 municipalities and just so much development enticement to go around, a suburb does what a suburb's got to do. In this case, besides a $2.2 million tax-increment-financing plan, Crestwood created a transportation-development district and a community-improvement district.
Let's not put everyone to sleep with too much detail about the difference between a TIF, a TDD and a CID. Believe it, explaining that convoluted mess makes a drug dealer's money-laundering seem like simple arithmetic. It boils down to this: Crestwood wanted to develop that busy corner, but to do so, the $2.2 million TIF subsidy wasn't quite enough. TIF funnels a portion of the new, or "incremental," sales-tax money from a development back into the project to pay off its cost. The swimming pool was outside the footprint of the TIF district but was needed for additional parking. So a TDD was formed to raise more public money, to be paid off with a three-eighths-cent sales tax to be collected at the proposed Kohl's.
The developer, THF Inc., first offered $250,000 for the 1-acre pool site, but that sum was deemed insufficient by the swim club. So THF settled on $750,000 and looked for a way to generate more cash for the project. Technically, the three-eighths-cent TDD sales tax won't be used to pay off the pool -- instead, it will pay for driveways and lights and such -- but all that money is fungible, moving around to enable the developer to cash out the swim club.
That's what irritates Catherine Barrett, a lifelong Crestwood resident who feels that the dues-paying members of a private pool are making out like bandits. "What economic benefit is there to Crestwood? Why are we trying to subsidize a private pool?" asks Barrett. "They're going to get more money for their pool than they should, an additional $500,000, to build a pool for 110 families, the majority of whom are not even Crestwood residents. What good is that doing for us?"
Barrett has another ax to grind: The new pool will be located on land owned by the swim club, right next to her house. That displeases her in part because the swim club was granted a conditional-use permit so it could build the replacement pool in an area zoned for residential development.
Gary Vincent, a Crestwood alderman, doesn't see eye to eye with Barrett. He happens to be president of the Rosebrook Real Estate Co., which owns the pool. He recused himself from voting on matters connected to the land sale, and he thinks Barrett and other neighbors should clam up. "They're saying we're getting paid too much money -- how can they determine that?" Vincent asks. "What difference does it make to a resident, around that pool, what we get paid for? That's not going to affect them at all. That has absolutely no impact on them whatsoever, at all. Period."
Yeah, right. It might be nobody's bidness, if the developer was paying its own way. But the sales tax paid by the public at this Kohl's will go in part to subsidize the developer and in part to pay for a new pool for a private club. So Barrett does have a legit gripe.
Assistant city administrator Matt Conley defends the use of a TIF to develop the corner across from the Crestwood Plaza, saying, "This project is the poster child for tax-increment financing." An abandoned gas station and asbestos in the five-story bank building make cleanup of the site expensive and have prevented private-sector development, he says. Without the use of TIFs by inner-ring suburbs, the sprawl in Jefferson, Franklin and St. Charles counties will be fed by economic refugees from St. Louis County, Conley contends.
"Retail follows rooftops," he says. "Where they're building houses, that's where they'll go. If Kohl's doesn't build in Crestwood, they'll build out in Eureka. That's the way it is. We don't make those calls; the people who work for Wal-Mart and Target and Kohl's, they do that. We don't necessarily like the tools we have to use, but they're the only ones we have. If we could have other mechanisms to use that weren't so controversial and weren't so convoluted, we would love to use them."
Using a TIF and a TDD to make a project possible is like borrowing money from Peter and Paul to pay off Guido. But as with all TIFs, from the ones used to build St. Louis Galleria on, most property owners don't complain because they're getting paid double or triple their property value. The host city doesn't gripe, because in the short term it gets increased tax revenue. And surely the developer doesn't whine, because he's guaranteed a generous return on his investment without the usual risk.
The losers are the ones who have no say in the decision: neighboring cities, which lose development and revenue to the TIF district; small-business owners, who never qualify for TIFs; and public schools and other taxing districts, which lose the incremental taxes for years to come.
But if you're a member of the Crestwood Swim Club, jump in, the water's fine -- and it's paid for.
This is big news! SO THE TDD was supposed to buy a PARKING LOT to be used by the PUBLIC at City HALL and make improvements to same at no cost to the City? How is this a bad deal for Joe Taxpayer in Crestwood.
Per the Missouri State Statues on TDD's aren't parking lots an approved use of TDD money?
As for the price? Who cares? It's being paid for by those who shop at Kohl's. If you don't want to have your money used for the parking lot, then shop across the street at Maycy's, Sears or Dillard's.
Please explain how the inclusion of a new parking lot at City Hall contributed to the value of the Kohl's development.
10:45 PM blogger: Big news is right! Now the portion for the parking lot is $650,000.00, so I guess you agree with me that the $850,000.00 paid to Rosebrook/swim club should not be included in the TDD!
That's what the whole bug a boo has been about from the get go! Now we can move to have this portion of the TDD ($850,000.00) removed, and get on with it.
Tom Ford
11:11 PM blogger: I can't, it coulden't, and it didn't!
This was all part of the "sweetheart deal" cooked up at the inception of this project.
You see the funds are fungable, and can be shifted by the developer to pay for what they deem a part of the project. In this case it is a parking lot twice removed from Kohl's, as well as a new swimming pool.
Now that we know the origional pool spot where the new Kohl's back parking lot now is cann'ot be part of the TDD, we wonder how the other portion was ever included.
Time (and more TDD meetings) will tell.
Tom Ford
How long has or was Mayor Roy Robinson been a member of Crestwood Swim Club and a stockholder in Rosebrook Real Estate Company?
Is it true that Mayor Roy Robinson son was a lifeguard at Crestwood Swim Club? How much was his salary during this time period as a lifeguard? Was free membership given to the family for his services as a lifeguard?
Is it true that Mrs. Roy Robinson cousins and family members are or were members of Crestwood Swim Club and Rosebrook Real Estate stockholders?
If the Crestwood Swim Club old pool location was appraised for $88,000, what was the blighted appraised value of this pool?
Could the value of this blighted pool be around $44,000 or less?
So now, the Rosebrook Real Estate Company gain is around $806,000.
How can the Board of Alderman and Planning and Zoning members vote on the approval of the TIF and TDD and the CID for Kohl's when they were Rosebrook Stockholders and Crestwood Swim Club members?
Why all of the secrecy?
Rosebrook Stockholders and Crestwood Swim Club members used Federal Transportation taxpayer's dollars for a private swim club for public officials use.
Mayor Roy Robinson always claims he is working for the public but who is Mayor Robinson really working for since he has alliances with the Rosebrook Real Estate and Crestwood Swim Club.
How can Mayor Roy Robinson be on the THF TDD Crestwood Development Point Commission when he was or is still a member of Crestwood Swim Club and or was a stockholder of Rosebrook Real Estate Company?
If our Mayor Roy Robinson does not publicly state his loyalty to Crestwood Swim Club and Rosebrook Real Estate Company, then the federal suditors will find the truth and someone will then go to jail just like the O'Fallon and Rockhill Mayor's.
Why did Mayor Roy Robinson wife wanted to see the Rosebrook Stockholders list?
Since Mayor Roy Robinson retired from the U.S. Federal Defense Mapping Agency and was a soldier in the U.S., this puts him in a higher standard when there is a federal investigation because he cannot plead innocent.
Now is the time to publicly state the history of Rosebrook Real Estate and Crestwood Swim Club to free up the corruption of our city with our public officials.
Our Mayor is the only person who can do this to help our city grow economically.
Yeah, Roy why??
Tom,
Is there a criminal investigation going on with the Kohl's TDD board to have a sealed appraisal without public viewing?
What is the time frame for the public to view an sealed appraisal?
Will the Missouri Tax Commission and IRS be allowed to view this appraisal?
Since this TDD is under the Missouri Statutes, how can this appraisal not been available to the public?
Tom,
Please verify the blighted value of the Crestwood Swim Club old pool location.
If the blighted area is valued at $44,000, then the Rosebrook Real Estate Company has received 19 times their value.
19 versus 10 times is substantial with taxpayer dollars!
Oooohhh Katherine!
The heck with Tom answering the questions, I want The Mayor to answer these questions asked on this here blog. Come on Mayor you want to be the spokesman for the City, start speaking some answers to the questions.
I think you are giving the wrong man the business here.
Mayor Robinson told Mr. Klarr as well as Mr. Silverman that ANY documents related to the re-apraisal for the TDD would have to be made public, or we would find another firm!
The firm selected by Armstrong Teasdale/ THF Realty has done business with them several times in the past, and they must know that any hint of impropriety would be their down fall.
From what I observed at the TDD meeting the problems the board will have in justifying this to the citizens will be enough by themselves, without the addition of a bad apraisal!
Yes the blighted value was less than $88,000.00, but that is out of the picture now, as that section known as part one is not going to be re-embursed anyway.
The part two where the pool and the City parking lot is will be what's to be included in the TDD (if it goes through.)
Now you begin to see the problems I stated above! where was the value (other than the City parking lot) to Crestwood? Answer, there was, and is none!
This can be completly cleared up by dis-allowing the $850,000.00 portion allotted for the other section (swim club,) and moving on to the parking lot!
The swim club members have assured us on this blog that it's not the Cities, or their problem, but rather a purchase taken on by the developer, so no problem right?
I wonder how the developer feels about that?
Tom Ford
Tom,
After reading how the appraiser wants a closed file on his/her report and a sealed file on his/her name pertaining to the Rosebrook Real Estate Crestwood Swim Club old pool location, is against the Missouri Sunshine Laws.
Can you please ask the following question to all parties involved with the Kohl's TDD, TIF, and CID plus Board of Alderman, City Administrator Frank Myers and all city staff:
Are you a member or any foreign or domestic organization, association, movement, group, or combination of persons which is totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive, or which has adopted, or shows a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny other persons their rights under the Constitution of the United States, or which seeks to alter the form of Government of the U.S. by unconstitutional means?
10:51 AM blogger: Why would you eaven say a thing like that? Good grief, did I not just tell you that THE MAYOR, AND ALDERMAN MIGUEL both told Mr. Klarr this is not acceptable?
Boys and girls, we have three rep's on that board (the above mentioned, and Mr. Myers,) and from what I saw at the meeting, all three of them are on our side!
Maybe in this case we can all cut them some slack, because believe me they have no reason apparent to do anything wrong here, nor would they!
We will have representation at ALL of these TDD meetings in the future, and we will not allow anything to go un-challanged, believe me!
Please don't forget that this is a recommending board only, the complete BOA will have to study it, and vote on it before it becomes law. That's going to be a real problem getting a quram there to vote as many board members hold stock in the pool, or are direct members of same.
That's when the real battle takes place, at the BOA meeting, when, and if this ever comes up for a vote.
Tom Ford
Tom,
What about the $600,000 for the City Hall parking lot included in the Whitecliff Bonds for building the new pool?
Where is our new City Hall Parking Lot? All I see is a new swimming pool next to the City Hall for our public officials to take a free dip into public dollars.
Missouri Division of Professional Registration for Regulated Professions Appraisers, Real Estate
http://www.pr.mo.gov/appraisers.asp
click on the Complaint Form
click on Rules and Statue
What is the correlation between Crestwood Improvement Association and Rosebrook Real Estate Company?
Was stock ever issued with Crestwood Improvement Association?
What ever happened to Dale Houdershell, our former Public Works Director before Mark Payken?
What was Dale Houdershell's budget?
What is current Mayor's realtionship with Swim Club?
They are dating! I do think it is an open relationship though.
Or in the words of former CA\Police Chief.... Just a "Social Relationship" that would never influence anything like a salary increase.
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