Crestwood Point TDD meeting set.
For those you interested in the Crestwood Point (Kohl's, Swim club, parking lot) TDD, the meeting will be held at City Hall at 1:30 PM on Wednesday, March 28, 2007.
This meeting should include the new appraisal of the property, and thoughts on why we should grant $850,000.00 to THF, via the TDD(and pay a higher tax at Kohl's to fund it.)
THF was asked at the last meeting by a resident to show us a copy of the original appraisal, and asked why should have a second one. To my knowledge that request has yet to be complied with, so we may see a second request at the meeting.
This is an important part of our City folk's, so if you can make it, please plan to attend!
Tom Ford
NO. 310
This meeting should include the new appraisal of the property, and thoughts on why we should grant $850,000.00 to THF, via the TDD(and pay a higher tax at Kohl's to fund it.)
THF was asked at the last meeting by a resident to show us a copy of the original appraisal, and asked why should have a second one. To my knowledge that request has yet to be complied with, so we may see a second request at the meeting.
This is an important part of our City folk's, so if you can make it, please plan to attend!
Tom Ford
NO. 310
posted by Crestwood Independent at 17:00
94 Comments:
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Who cares about the Crestwood Point TDD anymore other than the 5 or so people who will show up to the meeting? Time to turn the page and move on.
I told you I would no longer put up with this type of remarks, and I was serious!
When you have something to post that makes sense, please do so. Until then I will continue to use my "delete" powers!
Tom Ford
Isn't deleting posts a little hypocritical of Tom when he wrote this on the Crestwood Political View a few days ago?
Tom wrote,
"Mr. Ford allows the posts because he wishes to all ow you to continue to post you trite daitribe fo the community to see!
Mr. Ford will continue to allow you to post because he knows you have not the courage or the will to print your name, and he feels sorry for you!
And last, but not least, Mr. Ford will give you a forum to spew your drivel when no one else would consider your remarks worh the ink!
Tom Ford"
Get out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat, Tom. Your hypocrisy and intolerance is showing more by the day.
I doubt you have the "moral capitol" to tell me to get out of the kitchen!
You are still on, arn't you? and as such, until you cross the line (my blog, my line,) you will remain on.
Somehow I doubt this is posted from a "rectory, or a nunery," so, unless you can prove otherwise, I suggest you do one of two things.
Continue to post (with respect for all,) or go elsewhere. You decide!
Tom Ford
I would like to remind everyone that this is Mr. Ford's blog and he can run it however he chooses. He is the host, and we are all guests.
2:18 PM
You are quite mistaken!
5:20 PM
"Get out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat..."
Funny you say that when you didn't sign your name!
To 2:18 March 27th:
What benefit is there to moving on when there are still questions that remain unanswered?
Martha Duchild
Tom,
I agree with Martha Duchild about evaluating all of the issues with Kohl's TDD.
It will be interesting to read about the new appraisal price for the Old Crestwood Swim Club property.
If the price is lower, will THF Real Estate have a higher capital gain?
Is this Real Estate Appraiser including the underground gasoline tanks and esbestos that is still under Kohl's property that was supposed to be cleaned up by TIF money?
Maybe now the Hazardous Materials will be cleaned up once and for all!
Tom,
I agree with Martha Duchild about evaluating all of the issues with Kohl's TDD.
It will be interesting to read about the new appraisal price for the Old Crestwood Swim Club property.
If the price is lower, will THF Real Estate have a higher capital gain?
Is this Real Estate Appraiser including the underground gasoline tanks and esbestos that is still under Kohl's property that was supposed to be cleaned up by TIF money?
Maybe now the Hazardous Materials will be cleaned up once and for all!
I am the 7th person who cares about the Crestwood Point TDD that included the purchase price of $850,000 for the old Crestwood Swim Club pool property.
Why should the Kohl's shoppers pay a additional 1% sales tax to reimburse THF for this sale?
What a great deal for our local politicians to have a free pool?
Who are members of this private pool?
Hey Tom,
Instead of deleting the comments, why not give free passes to the Crestwood Swim Club to cool off the bloggers!
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Does your workplace know you blog during work hours?
blog is not a verb and I am the boss. (not everyone is Crestwood works for the man)Those of you with that mentality are the ones who are upset about the TDD. It will be hilarious when THF sues the City of Crestwood.
Oh arrogant one, you are incorrect.
From wickipedia.com "The term "blog" is a portmanteau, or, in other words, a blend of the words web and log (Web log). "Blog" can also be used as a verb, meaning to maintain or add content to a blog."
So you're the boss? Boss of what?
It might be hilarious to you if THF sues the city. The whole TDD situation is not a laughing matter, an expensive one, but not a funny one. Another mess left by previous administrations that has to be cleaned up.
Anyone notice that all is quiet on the homefront until the Kohl's/pool situation surfaces. Then like clockwork, the smart aleck contingent springs into a sort of paranoidness on this blog and calls the matter of the reassessment something not to "CARE" about. Of course we care about it. It was and is a project that contributes nothing to our city and is a major problem to the residents whose peace and quiet has been destroyed.
I care about it, all my neighbors care about it. We want the tanks brought up, we want to know when the asbestos was removed, we want to know why a delapidated pool worth about 88,000 came out of the deal with 850,000. We want to know why aldermanic action wasn't taken to modify the code and eliminate that back parking lot that is not used or needed. Mostly, though, we find it totally ironic that so many Aldermen and Board Members in Crestwood belong to this pool now and prior to its moving to the new location. We find the location out of line and the contractor and codes used suspect. Best we look further to see how this all came about. As for suing the city, let them sue the Crestwood Swim Club They asked for it.
2:18 P.M. March 27 Poster ...
Time to move on. I don't think so. The situation created by this private swim club, the TIF, the TDD, the politics and politicians, not to mention the unruly pooler bloggers whose blogs are so ugly they have to be removed, has made the rug very very lumpy and a tad smelly.
Time to get the HOOVER out and do some major spring housecleaning.
The alderman could not change the code because it was Kohl's code that required the parking lot, not the city of Crestwood's code. Get your facts straight.
Kohl's fault, eh! Guess you are the facts man. But, you know what, T, that could probably have been negotiated, re calculated with some effort. Lots of things up there on that real estate seem to have been recalculated. For instance, the entire matter. But then at this time our leadership seemed to be in over their collective heads, a great deal of it pool members sitting on the board. The bargaining table ethically challenged. When the tail wags the dog, and the dog wants a new pool, the tail gets dirty. A thin grey line between fact, fiction and rumor.
Oh my Gawd, you pool haters bore me. That's what this is all about, it's not about TIF or CID or anything else. You for some reason dislike the idea of a private pool or its members, or its location or all three. It really isnt about how the pool got the funds to rebuild, it's much more deeply seated than that.
How predictable that with summer coming and the opening day of the pool that this subject would be the hottest topic on this blog. Hotter than the increase in our homes valuation, or the decline of the sales tax base. It isnt about a sales tax rate that you don't have to pay if you shop somewhere other than Kohls. Does the Kohls location and new pool location look better or worse than they did before the changes? Is the the Creston Center look better or worse than the Kohl's/swim club pool property?
So sad. So small minded. Have any of you asked any of the people running for alderman what their position on the pool would be if elected? Share with us what they told you.
Well swim club members, the numbers are in and, well the parking lot was 1.9 Million,. now is 295,000.00!!!
It seems the TDD board feels that only the 295,000 should be given (correct,) so THF has a bit of time to refute that.
We shall see, but the really funny part is when THF goes to The Rosebrook Realty, and it's stock holders to answer the majic question, WHY?
9:37 AM blogger: trying to be too cute by a half, are we? Well read your post to get my thoughts! OOP'S it's gone!
Tom Ford
Oh am sure that THF has a few lawyers at their disposal considering one of the [artners of THF is the heir to the Wal-mart fortune. Maybe Tom Ford is willing to donate the legal fees the city is going to be facing....
Some of the bloggers need to move on with their lives. It appears to me that they will not be happy until the Crestwood Swim Club is disbanded. Not that they need to like it, but the pool in its current location is not going to change. Unfortunately, bad things happen to good people and this is one of those situations.
They didn't ask for that kind of neighbor, but it isn't as if they are going to tear down that pool and relocate. Eventually, you have to admit to yourself that the battle is lost.
They are there. They are staying. Why waste your energy to try to run them off. I can understand the desire to make THF pay for what is fair as opposed to the TDD funding the relocation of the pool, but isn't some of this vindictiveness going a little far?
It's not going to be the City faithfull blogger, not by a long shot! It's going to be the folks that negoated this deal from the get go!
And as well, the origional appraisal tht allowed the funds to be be issued in the first place. Where did that come from anyway, and how can there be such a "desparity" in the numbers?
Where it goes is not the problem of Crestwood, but rather the negoatiors of the deal to begin with! And by the way, since I am not a member of the swim club, I will not be kicking in for the fees!
Tom Ford
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The 295,000 is for the city parking lot. The old swim club is not paid back with the TDD - it's been previously disallowed. That $$ is comming from THF pocket. THF won't sue the city for 200,000. That's how much it will cost in legal fees + a weak case. The city parking lot was sold to the city for $1.00. THF is lucky the city is agreeing to $295,000!!!!
THF may sue Rosebrook...that's why you're scared.
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Since Jay Nixon, Attorney General of Missouri has been appraised of this situation and its implications, etc. it would be wise to bring it all to the fore. It is time the light of day be fully showered upon Rosebrook. This pool and the whole matter has a lot of shadows and politics. postings of pool bloggers unable to refrain from their attacks on any and all rightful queries to get to the bottom of things, I would say they are hiding some big time secrets and their worst fears are on the line. Why else this constant protective and vindictive stance???? You see, all the lawyers that are members of Rosebrook and the pool and have been a city official at one time or another are now crawling out of their formerly safe position knowing the shenanigans pulled to move this pool to a totally unfit place for a contrived and insane price are doing what all rats do, coming out of the rat hole. They really do honestly think that we have no right to question them. This is frightening. But those days are over. They made THF look silly and none of us seem to think this is funny.
"They made THF look silly and none of us seem to think this is funny"
Who cares what you think? No one.
12:55 Who cares what YOU think?
Everyone cares what I think. I am the supreme ruler of Crestwood.
I bow down humbly before you oh great one!
6:51 and 8:36 bloggers, your gone, and you know why, don't you!
Play by the rules set forth or, in baseball terms, "your out!"
Tom Ford
Need to change the name of this blog to the Crestwood Swim Club Haters Club as only talk about the Club bring out any posts. So I guess all this blog serves is the pro an con Pool people. Based on the activity of the last 4 weeks that seems to be the fact.
Tom,
Please explain how Kohl's shoppers use the parking spaces next to the new Crestwoood Swim Club Pool.
Maybe they use dirt bikes to fly over the back city parking lot to land on the parking spaces.
By the way, is it true the Rosebrook Real Estate Stockholders and Crestwood Swim Club Officers park in the Kohl's TDD parking spots during swim season.
How convenient to sell their land to the city for $1.00 and receive $850,000 for two parcels to have their own pool and free parking on the City's expense of asphalting the parking lot!
Does Rosebrook Real Estate or Crestwood Swim Club pay rent for parking on the City's Parking Lot?
Tom,
I donot feel sorry for THF Real Estate Company for not looking into who owned the property.
Everything is recorded in St. Louis County.
In reference to the additional parking spaces for Kohl's, Alderman Chris Pickel, Alderman Kelleher, and Mr. Green voted for the number of parking spaces.
Check out all of the Planning and Zoning minutes and Board of Alderman minutes and drawings to see all of the various number of parking spots required.
I wonder if Alderman Christopher Pickel, Alderman Kelleher, Alderman Breeding, former Alderman Gary Vincent, Alderman Duwe, and Mr. Green needed their own individual parkings spaces.
Dip in! The new Crestwood Swimmming Pool is paid by Kohl's shoppers.
Tom,
I am so glad that the Kohl's TDD Commission is considering the $295,000 to give to THF because now we request an audit of the whole Kohl's deal and find out who signed off on everything.
Also, we can now request an audit of all of the Whitecliff expenditures to verify if some of this project money went to build the New Crestwood Swim Club.
Who's signature will be on all of the invoices? Mr. Matt Conley? Mr. Gary Vincent? Mr. Wuebbles, Mr. Kent Leichliter? Mr. Don Greer? Ms. Diana Madrid? Ms. Ellen Dailey? Mr. Mark Payken? Mr. Brasfield? Mr. Fagan?
Money can be traced back to approved signature by the IRS.
Is Wood River broke due to their new city pool?
Is Wood River Auto Dealer broke that sold or leased cars to Wood River Police Department?
What is happening to the Wood River Wal-mart investigation?
Who will be on the Kohl's TIF commission to approve of the $295,00 to propose to the Board of Alderman?
Who will write a new ordinance on the Kohl's TDD to document the new figures for the Board of Alderman approval?
Will we have the same mess as Sunset Hills by not following Missouri Law and city ordinances?
Tom,
Can THF suit Rosebrook Real Estate Officers and Crestwood Swim Club Officers for not disclosing certain information about their land?
Will Rosebrook Real Estate Company and Crestwood Swim Club have to amend their IRS Tax Returns to show the increase in their property?
Is the $295,000 the blighted value of the two parcels or the non-blight value?
For some reason, everyone is leaving out how the Board of Alderman blighted the old Crestwood Swim Pool and parking spaces so they can sell it for $1.00 to the City of Crestwood!
7:44 blogger: I would think so, but then again I am not a Tax lawyer!
I hope they have one.
Tom Ford
Yep, the City bought it for $1.00 in December, so "who did what to whom," remains to be seen!
Tom Ford
I was just wondering if the swim club requires a "4x6 family photo for identification" (with the application) this year? They did last year, and I am wondering is that, "OK?" in todays society?
In the spirit of full disclosure, the Crestwood Swim Club/Rosebrook Realty should disclose the names of all of its members, past and present.
Furthermore, any alderman or alderwoman, past or present, or any other elected city official, or any city employee should state if he or she has been or is a member of the Crestwood Swim Club.
Is it true that Mr. Gary Vincent admitted at a Board of Alderman meeting for allowing the Crestwood Swim Club Tennis courts to be not maintained?
Was Mr. Gary Vincent hidden agenda to use "blighting" to reduce their capital gain as suggested by Mr. Jim Robertson in an Alderman Meeting?
What did Mr. Kent Leichliter gain from the Kohl's TDD? A guarantee pension from the City of Crestwood?
How many verbal and written deals were made just to have a Private Swim Club for our Politicians?
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Interesting that you have a problem with Mr. Ford, but you keep reading his blog.
Kathleen B., thanks for your latest updates,and questions. Tom can always count on you to fill in the blanks on his blog!
Officials who did not recuse themselves from pool issues if they were swim club members will be standing in the lineup. This alone is foul play and subject to some serious action. Ever wonder why so many pool members run for office in Crestwood? Ever wonder why so many lawyers have been in Rosebrook? Look into it.Go ahead, look into it. Then it is time to go up to city hall and lets start copying minutes.
I think the first one I would call to the stand would be Mr. V, followed by the parade of current and former aldermen on the board who are pool members.
I think THF should go after these smalltown hoodlums pronto.
I think the entire membership list of the pool club should get a mailing on how this all came to be.
I think all current officials owe it to our city to dig very deep into this matter and the officials who are pool members should not be involved in the investigation.
Mr. Nixon should be appraised ASAP of the newest development. Some of the blogs on this site have been very enlightening. There are obviously many who have a firm grip on this matter.
As for being accused of hating the swim club. This is hilarious,the funniest thing I have ever read on this blog site. Good grief. Get a Life! I almost fell off the chair laughing at this crack. I myself could never hate such small people. Most of us simply despise, not hate, crooks who steal, cheat, don't play by the rules and who have no integrity; who expect to get away with this cute little pool scheme and many of whose members have no idea what a sham they belong to.
This situation has now reached the state where it is mandatory for the city government to take whatever steps needed to get the truth out. All the truth. To protect the constituancy against hometown crooks. The consequences of not doing this are serious and compromise the integrity of the city itself.
Probably be best if the pool just shutdown completely as it has been nothing but a trouble spot since this whole mess started.
And, yes, the last 2 city administrators and the assistant city admn. who is now up in North County and the lady city attorney who up and quit should head the list of those brought into this.
Those of you who can't see beyond your swim goggles through your overwrought reactions to the lid coming off have provided me personally with a sense of obligation in getting to the bottom of this matter which is so obviously disturbing you to the point of blogs so bad they have to be removed. Did it ever occur to you that while you are trying so hard to protect your secrets, we are trying just as hard to unravel them. Hey, this thing stinks and most of us don't like the smell. We have a community to protect.
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9:50 a.m.
Wow, unbelievable.
Martha Duchild
More posts removed by me, cause if you hand wringing liberal's want to assuage your guilt, you will have to do it somewhere else!
Why, cause nobody want's to hear it! Oh by the way, you want a job on P&Z? Call me, and I will personally reccomend you for the job!!!
Tom Ford
Yes Martha. It is unbelievable that people like yourself still rush to the aid of a bloated bigot like Tom.
"Bloated bigot?" Wow, now that's showing your class, no? When it comes to you liberal's, you have to go for the insults, because you haven't the courage to debate any other way!
I appreciate Martha's comment's, and I respect them! You on the other hand fall very short of a person such as Martha!
Tom ford
Someone is apparently placing notes on this site that are repulsive to the point they must be removed. Most likely it is an adult. If this blogger is defending something by taking a dirt road, they must be trying very hard to do cover up. Fear will do this. I read all the intelligent blogs and realize that they are in the majority. I read the radical ones and realize what a truly nice and intelligent person I am by comparison as are my friends and most of the bloggers on this site. Our common cause is to rid our city of those who leech and discredit. Right now I see progress and it is wonderful. So, to the sad sack who name calls and joy-blogs - look on the brightside, we are trying to protect your home value, too.
Merck has not invented a character pill yet, but when they do, please "talk to your doctor."
9:50 and 4:22
Let thee who is without sin cast the first stone. You sure are throwing a lot of stones. I guess you are absolutely pure...
Steve Knarr is on planning and zoning.
Is he a member of the Crestwood Swim Club?
What was his position on the police palace?
Pls advise if S. Knarr is a member of the Crestwood Swim Club. Chances are he is, and, yes, this has something to do with the price of eggs!
Thanks.
To 4:22 March 30th:
That's quite an illogical leap you've made. All I did was express incredulity at an utterly crass statement, and somehow you inferred that I am "rushing to the aid" of Tom.
Tom is more than capable of standing up for himself and does not need my help.
Martha Duchild
I like eggs, sunnyside up, not too done.
Who cares if someone's a member of the Swim Club? An everyday Joe member of that club had no part in the mess left behind for us to clean up. I realize this issue is a relevant one for the city and should be investigated properly. But not to the point of borderline McCarthyism witch hunts of who's a member and who's not. That to me just seems as unproductive as making shallow comments about this blog and its moderator.
What if both candidates for ward two are members of the swim club! HA HA HA HA HA total city domination. Jerry Miguel may join too!
Your right! I didn't think about that! Perhaps EVERYONE in Crestwood should join the swim club! HA HA HA!
RE: Steve Knarr and Swim Club Memebership.
This is Mr. Knarr's phone number 314-965-4519. Please post on this blog the results of your call to Mr. Knarr regarding membership.
RE: Police Palace, ask our current Mayor what his position was on this issue when he was a member of the Police Board that supported the construction.
F.Y.I. Alderman Jerry Miguel recruted Mr. Knarr to run for Alderman. ask him why he did so.
Danielle oettle is captain of the
Crestwood Swim club swim team. Jerry Miguel is the mightiest seahorse.
At your request I called Mr. Steve Knarr today and asked him the question's you wanted answers to.
Mr. Knarr is not a member of the swim club, nor has he any ties to it.
Mr. Knarr is a member of St. E's church.
Tom Ford
Ms. Oettle is reported to be on a cruse this week, and thus un-available for comment. We hope to talk to her when she returns.
Tom Ford
Are you going to ask current Mayor if he supported the Police Palace when he was on the Police Board? While you are at it, ask current Police Chief if he supported the Palace. Please see where those in power now stood back then before it became politically incorrect to support the Palace and they were not in power.
On a cruise?
10:35PM When the police station was first proposed, a lot of people supported it. Most people thought Crestwood's economic condition was in better shape than it actually was. As time went on and Crestwood's poor fiscal condition became revealed, many people REconsidered it, except for Fagan and his supporters. Eventhough Crestwood was using borrowed money to pay its daily bills, Fagan and friends still supported it.
And who was the City Administrator and Financial officer who mislead the Cities elected official into thinking the money was there?
And who was the Mayor who settled out of court the law suit against the former C/A for misleading the elected officials?
And which Mayor sat on the Police Board and supported the Police Palace? Was it the same Mayor who dropped the case against the former C/A who mislead the elected officials into thinking there was enough money? Was it that same Mayor who when running for office said he has visited the former C/A and based on that visit and his experience with him when he was an Alderman, believed the former C/A did no wrong?
Why did this Mayor change his mind? The spin on this answer ought to be world class.
I have an idea for Kohl's/Swim Club issue that might make both sides of this issue happy.
Have the Aldermen pass a bill that uses ALL tax dollars that City Of Crestwood collects from Kohls to buy the Crestwood Swim Club property. Once this is done, then the Club would become a public pool/playground operated and run by the City, open to the public.
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"And who was the City Administrator and Financial officer who mislead the Cities elected official into thinking the money was there?
And who was the Mayor who settled out of court the law suit against the former C/A for misleading the elected officials?
And which Mayor sat on the Police Board and supported the Police Palace? Was it the same Mayor who dropped the case against the former C/A who mislead the elected officials into thinking there was enough money? Was it that same Mayor who when running for office said he has visited the former C/A and based on that visit and his experience with him when he was an Alderman, believed the former C/A did no wrong?
Why did this Mayor change his mind? The spin on this answer ought to be world class."
Actually, former Alderman Don Maddox was quoted in the Call saying the Board was mislead by Robertson\Greer regarding the suit against Leichliter/Weubbles. You have to look closely for the quote, but it’s there. Perhaps this why it was settled?
8:51 AM blogger: this is a family site, take your bathroom humor somewhere else!
Tom Ford
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Good Lord, you are not as dumb as you look!
tford
Maddox was wrong
Maybe not. I'm not sure if Maddox said that, but remember, the city had to settle with Leichlichter, the case never went to trial.
I wonder if Bland or Trueblood will run for mayor?
Or Alderman Miguel?
What's wrong with the comeback skippered by Mayor Robinson?
I think he is doing an excellent job on the recovery, so why not bring him back for the finish?
Tom Ford
Indeed, he's got two(?) more terms to go. So far so good.
Tell that to Alderman Miguel
He already knows. Trying to stir up some dust?
get a life, stirring up dust is what this blog is all about.
I have a life. I got one at a kiosk at our wonderful mall. While I was there, I got some cheap jewelry and a cell phone holder.
Thanks for shopping Crestwood first!!
Ha Ha! You are welcome!
(Good one!)
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