Crestwood BOA meeting on April 10, 2007!
Please note the second item on the agenda is for a new ordinance on the Crestwood Point TDD. This is the part where THF is looking for re-reimbursement for purchase of the private pool known as the Crestwood Swim Club!
If you think that's OK, well stay home, but if you, like I cannot understand how public tax money can be used to fund a private pool, please attend!
Tom Ford
NO. 318
If you think that's OK, well stay home, but if you, like I cannot understand how public tax money can be used to fund a private pool, please attend!
Tom Ford
NO. 318
posted by Crestwood Independent at 17:37
96 Comments:
Yawn......
Don't yawn, it may make for an exciting meeting.
I think it is great to fun the new Crestwood Swim Club with sales tax dollars.
I think it is awesome for the Crestwood Swim club members to have free parking on the City's Parking Lot.
How much is their membership!
Which BOA of alderman are voting?
Can the Mayor of Crestwood vote since he was a member of the Crestwood Swim Club and his son was a lifeguard?
Can Alderman Pat Duwe vote since her husband started Rosebrook Real Estate Company and was a long time member of Crestwood Swim Club?
Can Alderman Chris Pickel vote while being a member of Crestwood Swim Club?
Is City Attorney Robert Golterman a member of Crestwood Swim Club?
Will any of our public officials admit in public that they are members or were members of Crestwood Swim Club? What are they ashame of? The IRS?
How many political fundraisers are held at Crestwood Swim Club and for which Crestwood Public Officials?
troll alert, troll alert!!!
Somebody tape 24 for me! Looks like I'm going to a meeting tonight. (Actually, I should be able to tape it. Hopefully)
Tom Ford,
After reading the U.S. Constitution, I firmly believe that if our City of Crestwood Public Officials authorize the sale of one penny to THF for a private real estate transaction with Rosebrook Real Estate Company and Crestwood Swim Club is in violation of Article I Section 8 and Amendment XIV Section 1 and Amendment XIV Section 2.
Article I
Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Tom Ford,
Our Crestwood Public Officials and THF Crestwood Development Point, LLC Commission Board Members for Kohl’s is not following the due process of law and denying the citizens of Crestwood equal protection of the laws pertaining to the use of the one percent sales tax collected by Kohl’s to reimburse both the TIF and TDD for Kohl’s project in Crestwood.
Where is the written documents to show proof of reimbursing a private real estate transaction between THF and Crestwood Swim Club and Rosebrook Real Estate Company?
Where does it explicitly state that THF can reimburse themselves for a the purchase of two parcels of Rosebrook Real Estate Company for $850,000 in either the TDD or in the Intergovernmental Agreement?
Our Crestwood Public Officials are depriving the citizens of Crestwood life, liberty, and property rights by giving power to two private corporations by funding their entities with public sales tax dollars.
What rights are being taken away from Citizens of Crestwood by funding a private real estate transactions?
Also, Our Crestwood Public Officials and THF Crestwood Development Point, LLC Commission Board Members for Kohl’s are planning on authorizing to pay a debt between two private companies at the expense of the public sales tax.
Our Crestwood Public Officials and THF Crestwood Development Point, LLC Commission Board Members for Kohl’s cannot impose a one percent sales tax to benefit themselves for the pleasure of a new private swimming pool referred to as Crestwood Swim Club with shares of stock in Rosebrook Real Estate Company which has title to the private swim club and it is publicly known by the listing Rosebrook Stockholders, Missouri Secretary of State listing of Rosebrook Real Estate Officers which were Crestwood Public Officials, and witnesses to both Crestwood Swim Club public official members and Rosebrook public official stockholders.
Who is legally liable for this illegal act of reimbursing a private real estate transaction between THF and Rosebrook Real Estate and Crestwood Swim Club are City Attorney Robert Golterman and Attorney Robert Klahr and Attorney Jim Mello for not explicitly stating the name of either Rosebrook Real Estate or Crestwood Swim Club corporation name in the creation papers of THF TDD Crestwood Development Point, LLC. St. Louis Circuit Papers signed by Judge Barbara Crancer.
Who is hiding the facts and for what gain? Who is trully benefiting from this sale? Was this same sale as in previous sales or ordiances between Rosebrook Real Estate Company and Crestwood Swim Club and City of Crestwood?
who is the troll who keeps tilting with wind mills?
It's called questions. Questions that should have been asked long ago. Instead, it seems Crestwood operated on a system of rubber stamping, and now messes have to be cleaned up!
Were you not asked to play in the marco polo games with the other kids and you are still carrying a grudge?
Oh no. I don't carry a grudge and never played marco polo. I just wasn't fortunate enough to belong to a private swim club.
FYI to Josh: The meeting is tomorrow night - hope you can make it ...
troll alert!!! troll alert!!! heee heee heee see I'm soooo funny and smart and clever!!! troll alert!!! troll alert!!! heee heee heee heee
troll alert!!!! heee heee heee heee I'm soooooooo creative and clever heee heee heee
It is time to rattle all cages that are involved in this Kohl's/Swim Club Circus. It smells so bad it is indescribable. It behooves the current board to dig out the facts for once and for all. It is time for current leaders to stop a minute and think how they would feel if overnight their neighborhood peace and quiet and atmospshere was invaded by a private swim club which was the result of years of its members serving on city boards and passing the necessary measures to not only invate the residents privacy but to do so by demanding 885,000 for an old decripid pool worth 88,000. Kohl's and THF were unwitting recipients of graft and corruption that has no limits in this city.
Furthermore, the votes of Aldermen on this matter who are and were pool members needs to surface, the city is not being run for their benefit, it is to be run for all our benefit. The rules apply for recusal.
To land this kind of corruption on a residential neighborhood en light of a city board full of members of this private club is a desecration to public decency. Kohl's has an added tax and a parking lot they don't even need.
The ramifications of this whole scheme are extensive. It is time to do whatever it takes to make the needed amends to the residents of Crestwood.
It is not just the bonds. It is the whole sick, corrupt incredible under the rug deed. Time to call in the FEDS.
Crestwood Swim club is a place of evil....
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
7:41 PM blogger: You are an idiot! As Sigmund Freud once said " Insanity is doing the same thing over, and over again, and expecting a different result!"
In your case you darn sure qualify!
Tom Ford
Tom,
When is the City of Crestwood planning on giving back the egress or sidewalk to the old Crestwood Swim Club to the Bali Court owners.
Who wrote on the Bali Court plat and changed their boundries to egress for a sidewalk to the Crestwood Swim Club pool?
Who illegally tapped into Bali Court Sewer to drain the old Crestwood Swim Club that is recorded on the Bali Court plat?
Is that why you always smelled raw sewage or chlorine odor on Bali Court?
Did the City of Crestwood allow the new Crestwood Swimming plumbing to set as the old way of illegally draining their sewage into a storm sewer?
Tom,
When are you planning on posting all of the Rosebrook Stockholders so that the Citizens of Crestwood can actually see the 1950's stockholders?
How can I sell property to the City of Crestwood for a profit and still use the land for my private parties? I want to be in on this deal. Sounds too good to be true!
Where is the beef?
Where is the proof?
Was all of the paperwork shredded?
From City Administrator Frank Myers:
Subject: Executive Summary – April 10th Board Meeting
Date: April 6, 2007
Included in your packet is a completed license application and a memo from the City
Clerk recommending approval.
The second item under my report is consideration of an ordinance amending the
Crestwood Point Intergovernmental Cooperation Agreement. This amended agreement
basically accomplishes two things. First, it reduces the amount of reimbursement the
developer is entitled to for the acquisition of the City Parking Lot from $800,000 to
$295,000 or such amount approved by the TDD Board. Second, it authorizes the TDD to
issue notes, bonds or other obligations to finance the TDD Project and City Parking Lot
and the CID to issue separate notes, bonds or other obligations to finance the CID
Project. Included in your packet is a memo from Attorney Robert Klahr which provides
important background information on this project and further explains the recommended
action to be taken. Mr. Klahr will be present at Tuesday night’s meeting to answer any
questions you have.
Question: If the Intergovernmental Cooperation Agreement between the City and Crestwood Point Transportation Development District provides $635,000 for design, acquisition and construction of the City parking lot. (See Article III sec. 3.1 and sec. 3.5), when was the $850,000 included in the Intergovernmental Agreement?
Are our Crestwood Public Officials trying to include the saleprice of Rosebrook Real Estate of $800,000 in the Intergovernmental Agreement and $850,000 in the Kohl's TDD?
Sounds like double dippiing!!
Land Irregulars!
Movement of land ownership between the City of Crestwood, Rosebrook Real Estate Company, and Crestwood Swim Club.
Free parking for Crestwood Swim Club members.
Free trash for Crestwood Swim Club members.
Possibly in the past, free electric and water for the Crestwood Swim Club.
Eminent Domain has a paper trail with signatures.
Free Water Rights, Free Easement Rights, and Free Parking sounds like Eminent Domain by our own Crestwood Public Officials without proof. Just ordinances signed and dated to give away everything to Crestwood Swim Club members and Rosebrook Stockholders!
What is the payoff?
Getting elected as an Alderman or as the Mayor?
Free parties?
Welcome home, Catherine Barrett...we are so glad to have you back
Gary, Gary, he's your man
If the city don't get him
guess who can
enter the feds, enter the state
but even better yet
neighbors choose his fate
Fill that pool with dirt
like boards have been
no more mess no more smirk
We have our Whitecliff
plenty nice it is
for everyone and causes no tif
Together we all stand
armed with what's right
the story of the swim club land
Oh, the smell is bad
the truth is, too
someone got gold, someone got had
The story's out
the pouters too
oh my how they shout
someone has which of the following?
1) too much time on their hands
2) their facts wrong
3) misinformation
4) all of the above
Answer: 4!
5:34 PM blogger: Very creative, I like it! I thought it was time to "lighten up" anyway, and that did it for me!
Tom Ford
8:44 AM blogger: Ah, she is still in Texas working for the Army, don't you know!
Tom Ford
If TIF money is used in any way in the Boundaries of the City of Crestwood that affect the General Revenue in any way or make the city fulfill any responsibility as a contract for the failure of the original TIF, the citizens of the City of Crestwood should be informed of those risks of issues to see if they are willing to be at risk with this possibility. As an example of this responsibility, the Kohl’s TIF, TDD, CID, and Intergovernmental Agreement. Some type of flyer should be issued to each citizen and resident of the City of Crestwood for their approval or disapproval for the city’s responsibility of the TIF usage.
Are you stating that a TIF, TDD, CID, and Intergovernmental Agreement Managers that managed the public funds can increase the operating value that the City of Crestwood would be responsible for like Operating Cost was $1.00 and then these Managers say it is now $5.00 to Operate these funds will make the City of Crestwood responsible for the $5.00 automatically. This value can rise up to whatever the Operating Managers request and make the City of Crestwood responsible automatically by the Mayor and Board of Alderman agreements.
How do you set the budget for a TIF, TDD, CID , and Intergovernmental Agreement that affects the General Fund for the City of Crestwood?
Where is the set budget stated for these public funds?
aaah..the unintended consequences of revenge....too bad.
Tom,
RE: Enter Into a First Amended and Restated Intergovernmental Cooperation Agreement with the Crestwood Point Transportation Development District and the Crestwood Point Community Improvement District; And Actions Related Thereto.
So, How often will the City of Crestwood "restate" the amount of public monies to both THF and their silent partners under their LLC after the TDD and CID boards increase the costs for another project or for an existing project?
How is the City of Crestwood responsible if the TIF, TDD, CID, and Intergovernmental Agreement fails?
Are you ready to sell your house?
What happened at the meeting last night? Is the imminent destruction of Crestwoo Swim Club at hand. Are the members going to have to write personal checks to THF and the City of Crestwood. Are the swim club members going to have to dip into their overflowing bank accounts thanks to all the money they made on the pool deal and pay back THF? I can't wait to see this!
To Crestwood Citizens:
Intergovernmentatal Cooperation Agreement dated March 7, 2007
Section 4.2. Construction and Costs of the CID Project.
...Purusant to the Reimbursement Agreement, the CID shall reimburse the Developer for all CID Project Costs incurred in undertaking the CID Project in accordance with the Redevelopment Agreement in an amount of up to $515,000 in addition to those Transportation Project Costs identified in Section 3.2 of this Agreement.
Section 3.2 Construction and Costs of the Transportation Project.
.. for all Transportation Project Costs incurred in undertaking the Transportation Project in accordance with the Redevelopment Agreement in an amount of up to $2,355,000, provided that the amount of Transportation Project Costs reimubursed by the TDD in connection with the acquisition of property in connection with the City Parking Lot shal not exceed $295,000 of such another amount approved by the TDD's Board of Directors.
Section 3.5 City's Construction of the City Parking Lot.
.. establish a project fund of $631,719 for the City's design, acquisition and construction of the City Parking Lot.
$515,000 + $295,000 = $810,000
Sure is close to $850,000 for Rosebrook Real Estate/Crestwood Swim Club!
I got an E-mail today fron a person who did not want to put it on the blog, so I won't.
The jist of the thing was if dump trucks came and filled in the swim club pool today, what would we do with the extra parking spaces?
You know what? She is right, we do not need more parking at City Hall (if there was no swim club,) but I think it would make a teriffic City wide garden for people to plant, tend, and enjoy, no?
That way most everyone will be happy (with some minor exceptions,) and we can move on to bigger and better things.
Tom Ford
What happened at the meeting, in a word, nothing! The ordinance was given a first reading, THF was given two weeks to prove they should have more (won't happen, if it hasen't happened by now,) and all went away sort of happy.
This was "round one" so to speak in what will be a long prosses from the BOA to the TDD board's to the sale of the bond's.
This information is second hand as I was in bed by 7:45 PM for an early rise to teach classes in Rolla, and Owensville, MO. However I believe it to be correct as it came from three people who were there.
Hope that help's.
Tom Ford
Was the Rosebrook Real Estate blighted by the Mayor and Board of Alderman?
If so, was the new appraisal including the blighted value?
Was a copy of the Kohl's Reimbursement Agreement given to Mayor Roy Robinson, City Administrator Frank Myers, and Board of Alderman?
If Rosebrook Real Estate taxes was $74,000 before it was blighted based on St. Louis County Taxes, then is the $295,000 a factual blighted real estate value or an inflated value to help THF?
Which Federal and State authorities has our Mayor Roy Robinson received a legal opinion over the Kohl's TIF, TDD, CID, and Intergovernmental?
Is this for public record?
Can you please post these agencies for the Citizens of Crestwood to contact?
Tom,
Even if you fill in the Crestwood Swim Club with dirt, you would have to cancel the Ordinance that allows the Rosebrook Real Estate Company and Crestwood Swim Club that was read by Alderman Breeding for free parking on the City of Crestwood Parking Lot during their swim season which is from Memorial Day to Labor Day.
Try parking on the City's Parking Lot during a Crestwood Swim Meet or a part while attending a meeting at City Hall of Crestwood!
You will have to park at St. Elizabeth's of Hungary or Kohl's parking lot to attend a public meeting because the Ordinance Agreement with Water Rights, Easements, and parking privileges during Crestwood Swim Club events.
So, the city's parking lot is really for Rosebrook Real Estate Company and Crestwood Swim Club access into their pool and parking spots.
If I was at a Neighborhood Watch Meeting, the Crestwood Swim Club members and their guests should be parking at St. Elizabeth's of Hungary to allow the City of Crestwood citizens to attend meetings year round.
With such a long ongoing problem as to how much THF Realy is really deserving of, wouldn't you wonder why five of our eight aldermen have absolutely nothing to say? Is it a lack of interest? A lack of knowledge? Still water runs deep. The quiet ones know ALL the answers, they were there in the beginning and remain silent only out of fear they will incriminate themselves. This mess will never go away, more than likely the private swim club will meet its demise when the local people decide to take justice into their own hands and all people will be allowed into this 'safe' club.
Tom,
Can you please post Ordinance 3783, 3776, and 1351 for the Citizens of Crestwood to understand who's parking lot this really is owned by?
10-Jun-03
Ordinance 3783 Approving and Granting Easement to Rosebrook Real Estate Company (removed section 2. Termination of Easement that was in Ordinance 3776)
13-Jun-72 Ordinance 1351 An ordinance approving a contract with Rosebrook Real Estate Company for the Purchase of a Parcel of Ground Presently Part of the Crestwood Swimming Club parking log, located adjacent to the present city hall property providing certain conditins and authorizing the mayor to execute said contract on behalf o the city.
Adjacent to the Present City Hall Property providing Certain Conditions Sales Price $12,000 from the City of Crestwood with certain benefits (possibly purchased twice in 2002)
6/20/1972 Book 6593 Page 2347-2348 General Warranty deed between Rosebrook Real Estate Company and City of Crestwood at 1495 S. Sappington Road signed by William G. Knopf, president of Rosebrook Real Estate Company
To Crestwood Citizens:
Try parking on the City's Parking during a Crestwood Swim Club/Rosebrook Real Company event.
Please read the above three ordinances.
A copy of these ordinances are the two books.
from BOA July 24, 2001 minutes
Mr. Straub indicated in the past the property has not been maintained, and anyone looking at the tennis courts could see that this was so. Mr. Straub indicated that it was unkempt and full of
debris, and he felt that the City could have made a case for it being blighted. Then Mr. Straub
stated he had some concerns about the stability of the club to maintain itself into the future. Mr. Straub again pointed out that there were many concerns from the surrounding property owners, and
Mr. Straub felt that they needed to be addressed. He indicated that the City did not hesitate to
move tenants out of the buildings on the corner of Watson and Sappington in order to blight the
area, and he felt that while the City evidently believes that redevelopment of the Watson Road area was necessary, he believed that the City needed to look at the entire issue, because he did not think the City was doing justice to the people living in the nearby areas. He stated that the noise problems especially concerned him.
Was any Rosebrook Real Company or Crestwood Swim Club property ever blighted?
April 2001 Agenda for City of Crestwood
Public Hearing - Consideration of whether the area consisting of two parcels owned by Rosebrook Real Estate Company, comprised of property operated as Crestwood Swim Club, tennis courts and parking area should be declared blighted within the meaning of Chapter 353 RSMo., the Urban Redevelopment Corporations Law of Missouri and to hear comments from those persons affected
Board of Aldermen Agenda Memorandum No. 6b
TO: Mayor and Board of Aldermen
DATE: April 10, 2001
SUBJECT: Acceptance of Blighting Analysis of Crestwood Swim Club Property
The Board needs to officially accept the Blighting Analysis of the Crestwood Swim Club
Property. The only change that Mr. Brancaglione may have is the possible inclusion of a written
report from Preferred Pool Care. If this information is available, Mr. Brancaglione will present it
to the Board Tuesday night.
Recommended Action:
Accept the Blighting Analysis Report and set the Public Hearing Date for April 24, 2001
Respectfully submitted,
D. Kent Leichliter
City Administrator
Is the Rosebrook Real Estate Property/Crestwood Swim Club 1/2 of $80,000 or $74,000?
How can you justify the $295,000 for blighted property?
former Mayor James M. Brasfield signed Ordinance 3662 on 4/24/2001
AN ORDINANCE FINDING THAT A CERTAIN AREA, AS DESCRIBED HEREIN, IS BLIGHTED WITHIN THE MEANING OF CHAPTER 353, THE URBAN REDEVELOPMENT CORPORATIONS LAW OF MISSOURI, AND FINDING THAT THE REDEVELOPMENT OF SUCH AREA IS NECESSARY AND IN THE INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND
GENERAL WELFARE OF THE CITY OF CRESTWOOD AND ITS RESIDENTS.
SECTION 1: It is hereby found and determined by the Board of Aldermen of the City of Crestwood that the area, described on Exhibit A hereof, by reason of age, obsolescence, inadequate and outmoded design or physical deterioration, has become an economic and social liability and that such conditions are conducive to ill health, transmission of disease, crime or inability to pay reasonable taxes. It is further found and determined that by reason thereof, such area is blighted and the clearance, replanning, rehabilitation or reconstruction thereof is
necessary and in the interest of the public health, safety and general welfare of the City of
Crestwood and its residents.
There are none so blind as they that will not see! The facts are here and clear. We have those who say 'yawn' to these facts. An old old saying for Mr. Yawn. Count that day lost, who law, Descending Sun, views from your hand no worthy action done. You sir, are guilty of the sins of omission. You can fool many earthlings but you cannot escape the attention of your maker and so you believe you can behave in such a manner and then go to confession? You are in trouble son.
How is Perma Jack connected to Rosebrook Real Estate and Crestwood Swim Club?
Perma jack helped build the new pool and helped bury all of the toxic waste that exists under city hall and on Bali Court.
Just because a property is blighted doesn't mean the owner doesn't get "fair market value".
By-the-way, fair market value MAY NOT be what a private appraiser comes up with.
As an example, Mr. Grewe got many times (x10)what his little cross acess from Watson Plaza to Kohl's was appraised at by going through the condemnation process. Three court appointed condemnation judges - with no ties to anything Crestwood - awarded him that.
Many people who read this blog are very naive and misguided about development, real estate and tools used for development. While they refuse to admit it, they have a hidden agenda. They dislike Crestwood Swim Club, previous members, leaders or associates of the club. They also somehow see it as a high falutin private club. These poor, misguided people have clearly never set foot in a private club such as Westborough or the MAC.THese are the same misguided people who want to hold a bakesale and "shop Crestwood First" as a way to boost the sales at the mall and promote further development. I also suspect that these same people are screaming about their latest county assessment they received in the mail. You want to get top dollar for your home if you sold it, but you want a low assessment.....think about it..
9:51...Ditto
9:51
10:46
double ditto!!
The TDD Commission is made up of the Mayor, Alderman Miguel and Frank Myer from Crestwood. Do they know how much money has been collected for THF? Do they know where the money has been put?
All of them have been very quite about this issue, isnt it about time they stood up and made their positions known? Do they think THF should get the amount they are requesting? If so why, if not, why not? The Mayor wants to be the spokesman for the City, here is his chance to be the spokesman for the TDD commission, strange how silent he is.
"Many people who read this blog are very naive and misguided about development, real estate and tools used for development. While they refuse to admit it, they have a hidden agenda. They dislike Crestwood Swim Club, previous members, leaders or associates of the club. They also somehow see it as a high falutin private club. These poor, misguided people have clearly never set foot in a private club such as Westborough or the MAC"
What? Are you saying that if we haven't been to the MAC, or the "country club," we are (your words,) POOR, MISGUIDED?
Well, folks, that said it all! Thanks for giving us the heads up as to why we will never matter to your "high falutin private club!"
Tom Ford
9:51
What an outstanding elitist diatribe. Your entry is quite reminiscent of the elitist attitude some of the aldermen had from 2002-2005.
What is your agenda 9:51?
9:51 Triple ditto, your agenda is the truth, many people who read this blog are easily mislead. 100% on the mark.
Don't let the attacks you will receive stop you from stating the oblivious.
To those who question the TDD/Kohl's/THF Swim Club arrangement, all they have to do is ask our Mayor who is the chair of the TDD commission. He will have all the answers, like where is the tax collected so far being held, like how much has been collected, like what will happen to the money collected if THF doesn't get it?
Those who claim you are elitist simply have a justified inferior complex.
7:11
Thanks for proving my point! Another elitist diatribe.
7:11 Pm Blogger: Well, I am impressed! Indeed, fight the good fight, "Illigitimus Non-carburendem," and all that!
In the end the truth will win out, and we will all be able to see who was right, and who was wrong. So let's all wait for the final bell!
Tom Ford
7:54 And another moronic waste of time from you. read what was written with your mind wide open for once.
I'll say it again...if you think that two concrete block structures composed of a snack bar and bathroom along side a swimming pool that is open three months out of the year is an ELITIST private club, than you have not been inside of am authentic private club--the MAC and Westborough are examples of such clubs. THose who think that Crestwood Swim CLub is an elitist private club must be poor and misguided if that is their best example of an elitist club.
9:11-9:12
Save some of that hot air for the winter.
FYI - if anyone get the security prompt "This page contains both secure and unsecure items - Do you want to display nonsecure items" just select no and the little picture of the blog master will not display. That is if you don't want to view it when posting.
Is the Stock and Associates members Crestwood Swim Club and stockholders of Rosebrook Real Estate Company who signed the plats for the Kohl's Project?
Are all of the Plats accurate?
HUH???
I would just like to say that I went to the BOA meeting on the 10th. I couldn't make heads or tails of anything that was going on regarding this issues. In fact, I don't even understand the issue, partly because I'm new to the area.
TDD, THF, bonding, TIF Districts, I don't know what is going on but it sounds like an infinitly complex tangled mess.
Suffice it to say I'm reluctant to even ponder a run for local office in Crestwood because serving on the BOA or in the mayor's office seems to require divine omniscience, which I do not have.
Josh,
Then you would love seeing our Mayor in action at a Ways and Means meeting, his big push is for the budget to be on one page so he can understand it!
It seems a former alderman is still bitter.
9:12 PM blogger: I believe most of us here will agree that "brick and morter" do not an "elitist club" make.
I submit that it's not the structure, but the attitude of the members in that structure. Are members of the Crestwood Swim Club "elitist?" The ones that I have met are not, however I have only met a few.
What about it swim club members, are you stand up people, or are you, well?
By the way, I still think it would be great to have a "meet and greet" on the City Hall parking lot some day this spring so the neighbors can get to know you.
Tom Ford
Josh, I can get you two books, plus some new paperwork that will bring you up to speed on this entire matter, all sides of it.
If you wish to see them, call me at 314-341-2307
Tom Ford
out comes the DeKathi code...Josh, I hope you have about 6 weeks to wade through all of it...it's a page turner..Did Elliot Davis every return his copy of the DeKathi Code?
5:25 PM blogger: Elliott Davis never had a copy of the "books." But Josh will if he askes for them!
I am just wondering if you have ever seen them? And if not, do you want to?
Tom Ford
Josh,
Don’t sell yourself short.
The abbreviations, TDD, TIF, and CID, represent tools of economic development.
TIF or Tax Increment Financing is a tool that allows the use of increased tax revenue to finance or remedy existing improvements to create a better development. Kohl’s, at the corner of Watson and Sappington Road, is an example of a TIF project. The developer requested tax increment financing because the original development (an old office building, detached grocery store, and gas station) contained asbestos and there were questions of residue from an old gas station. Many developers were not willing to take the project unless they were given some assistance to remove those existing environmental problems. TIF was granted and the developer built the project. When you or I shop at Kohl’s and pay sales tax, a portion the increased revenue (the revenue over and above the revenue from the original development) goes to reimburse the developer for these costs.
TDD or Transportation Development District works in a similar fashion. If road or parking improvements or needed, a TDD is established and added to the sales tax we pay at the development.
CID or Community Improvement District works similarly also. The following is a definition from mobar.org: “the CID Act provides for property owners or business owners within a specified area to form either a not-for-profit corporation or a political subdivision. Once formed, these entities possess powers enabling them to carry out numerous fiscal initiatives, primarily the ability to raise funds through special assessments and taxes for the provision of public infrastructure.8”
There is a much larger debate - some call these tools examples of corporate welfare and others call these economic development tools.
THF, an abbreviation you heard last Tuesday night, stands for the name of the developer that built the Kohl’s building, THF Realty.
As stated, these are the basic ideas. I might be leaving something out.
If anyone else has anything else to add or correct, please do.
Josh,
There is an Intergovernmental Agreement and Reimbursement Agreement that explains how the government tax free bonds are paid off.
"Occam’s Razor is the idea that when confronted with competing theories that explain certain data equally well, the simplest one is usually correct. It’s called Occam’s Razor, and not Occam’s Hypothesis, or Occam’s Theorem, or Occam’s Bit of Useful Advice, because it is a razor – it cuts cleanly and with great efficiency."
Josh, there are two very different theories when it cames to the Swim Club issue. Both sides will put up very plausable arguement's, which I why I urge you to look objectively, on your own, and form your own opinion.
Yor best source for information is Mr. Jerry Miguel, Pesident, BOA, who can give you the information you need.
Tom Ford
How will you respond when THF sues the city of Crestwood? What will occur if THF costs the city of Crestwood thousands of dollars in legal fees because a misguided segment of the population is beating a dead issue to death? Just curious Tom Ford....
2:06 PM blogger: First of all just what is misguided about the citizens (myself included) wanting to know where the TDD funds are going?
You may have noted that since the citizens have become involved the TDD cost dropped by $555,000.00! Now why was that I wonder?
Second, I have looked at this issue from more sides than you care to believe, and I don't see where there is ANY liability that the City has to worry about.
I believe the check (I have seen a copy) for $850,000.00 was written to Rosebrook Realty, and not the City of Crestwood, so just who is liable if THF does not get what they wanted?
The "books" that people are so quick to dismiss show the entire deal in cronological order, and seem to raise questions that have yet to be answered to anyones satisfaction.
You seem to be very frightened at the possibility of a law suit. That can happen at any time, anywhere, and for whatever reason. But if we allow anyone to come into Crestwood, threaten us, and walk away with all the marbles, well, in my estimation we may as well shut down.
Tom Ford
Gosh, you must be psychic...I am so sceeered!
"sceeered?" Outcome based education?
Tom Ford
Heck Tom, Id just like to know where the TDD funds are right now, much less were they are going. Does anyone have an idea if they Tax has been collected and if so where the monies are being held? Does the Mayor know, he does sit on the TDD commission doesn't he?
And is it true that some of the TDD for Kohl's when to Grewe for the connection between his shopping area and Kohl's? If so how much and was that amount too much for the land that was bought? Grewe gave the max for the Mayor's run for office, does that get any one's interest or concern going enough to ask questions about that?
If you read the BOA minutes on the city website back when this all started you will see the TDD has increased $100,000. Why? Was it for Grewe's connection? Was any of that money given back to the Mayor? Is $100,000 to much for a street less than 50 long and 50 feet wide? What say you?
I say
"breaker 1-9, this here's the Rubber Duck, we got ourselves a convoy!"
I am for answers to all our questions! We should be the watch dog on the tax monies here, so if you have any questions, please ask the leadership!
Tom Ford
Tom,
The TDD cost dropped by $850,000 which is zero dollars.
Attorney Robert Klahr wants to give THF $295,000 due to the new land appraisar of the Rosebrook Real Estate in the Intergovernmental Agreement which is the City of Crestwood's General Fund money for collecting 1% of the 1% of the Kohl's sales taxes for managing the payment of the TDD and CID government tax free bonds.
It is a shell game without a legal contract.
The lawsuit will be against the new BOA and the Mayor for knowing the facts and shifting the THF payment of a private real estate transaction between Rosebrook Real Estate Company and Crestwood Swim Club in the Intergovernmental Agreement for $259,000 and in the CID for $515,00 which adds up to $810,000.
Josh,
I have read the two books on the Kohl's project and on the history of Rosebrook Real Estate and Crestwood Swim Club. All of the government documents are from City of Crestwood City Clerk, St. Louis County Revenue, Missouri Secretary of State, St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds, St. Louis County Plats, St. Louis County Circuit Court, Missouri Highway Department, and Armstrong Teasdale Attorney Robert Klahr.
You can obtain everything online from any government department or by a Sunshine Request.
"And is it true that some of the TDD for Kohl's when to Grewe for the connection between his shopping area and Kohl's?"
Grewe got lots of $$$ because THE COURT AWARDED HIM A HUGE SUM FOR HIS CROSS-ACCESS. Mr. Grewe told the court that the cross-acess would "kill" his shopping center and "destroy" Jack'n the Box. Guess what? Now he markets Watson Plaza having Kohl's as an anchor.
LESSON... Just because an appraiser says it's worth X doesn't mean a court will agree.
If a court gave Mr. Grewe a ton of money for sliver of cross-access, what would the Crestwood Swim Club have gotten? Look's like we got a bargin.
Finally someone with some sense on this blog...and let's not forget that the pool's membership list is probablyloaded with lawyers ready to defend the club at no charge! Ha ha!
Tom,
Who is paid to for the $295,000?
Tom,
Who is paid to for the $295,000?
I think Mr. Ford answered this on another thread. THF will get the money.
Roger Anderson's son Tim is a lawyer, is he a member of the Swim Club?
The spaceship is coming soon, soon I say!!! It will take us away, to neverneverland!!! All aboard!!!
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