BOA work session 7/24/07, 6:00 PM at the BOA chambers.
This one will be worth attending folks! It seems that Alderman Richard Bland is going to try to further his idea of a "code of conduct" for the Mayor, the board, as well as all of the commission members!
Sounds great right? Wrong! We had a ballot issue that covered this, and other changes to the Charter, and it was voted down! Now we have Mr. Bland attempting to change the "will of the people" on this issue by wanting to introduce an ordinance to make it happen anyway!
We told him, and all the others we didn't want this once, and I would have thought he would have heard that loud and clear, but alas, that does not appear to be so. Why would we want to set up a "code of conduct" that is clearly to be used as a means to stifle speech and ideas other than those "approved" by a select few?
Please join your neighbors at this meeting and tell our Alderman why this is not only a bad idea, but one that sends us down a very slippery slope towards the type of Government not envisioned by anyone who believes in the sanctity of freedom of speech, and the right of the people to verbally disagree!
Tom Ford
NO.361
Sounds great right? Wrong! We had a ballot issue that covered this, and other changes to the Charter, and it was voted down! Now we have Mr. Bland attempting to change the "will of the people" on this issue by wanting to introduce an ordinance to make it happen anyway!
We told him, and all the others we didn't want this once, and I would have thought he would have heard that loud and clear, but alas, that does not appear to be so. Why would we want to set up a "code of conduct" that is clearly to be used as a means to stifle speech and ideas other than those "approved" by a select few?
Please join your neighbors at this meeting and tell our Alderman why this is not only a bad idea, but one that sends us down a very slippery slope towards the type of Government not envisioned by anyone who believes in the sanctity of freedom of speech, and the right of the people to verbally disagree!
Tom Ford
NO.361
posted by Crestwood Independent at 13:58
125 Comments:
That's a strange position you are taking Tom, seems to me there was a time when you and others were all for a code of conduct for the elected officals of Crestwood. Without a code, what violations would the BOA have for Censur or removal from office of an elected offical? The current codes are pretty limited, IE Charter violation being the main one, What about the code stating a Alderman cant vote for something that effects an orgainzation he belongs to or has an interest in, like a swim club? Or how about defining what it means for an elected offical to interfer with the job duties of the City Administrator, which is a cause for removal or censur?
Seems you have forgotten the fact that the recent changes to the Civil Service rules changed the Charter without a vote of the people. What are you afraid of, at least you know about these meetings, which is something you cant say about the Civil Service review committee.
We have a code of conduct, it's called the Charter, and personel ethics. If we have anyone in an elected position who doesen't understand that, they should be re-called.
I am all for the Charter as it was written, not the way some wish it was written. That said, we have all the needed tools to censure any elected official in place now. That being a public forum (BOA) meeting, a newspaper, this blog, and the Charter. Why add another layer designed for one purpose only?
It seems you have forgotten that some of us asked the BOA members with ties to the Swim Club to recuse themselves on the TDD vote. Well you see where that went thanks to the City Attorney who's opinion differs from the State ethics committe.
Pray tell, who is interfering with the C / A, and preventing him from doing his job? I haven't seen it so far. Good grief, he has three assistants to help him, so how could anyone?
Ah yes, the civil service commission, well me thinks that this is the real reason for your post. This seems to be a bone of contention between those who wanted a Charter change, and the majority of us who did not.
The civil service commission restored the rights of our employees taken away by the former C / A, as per the Charter, nothing more, nothing less. It was the right thing to do, we have an elected government here, not a "kingdom," and as such our employees deserve this protection just as other City employees do. Wouldent you agree?
And now to end this "rant," I find out about meetings the old fashioned way, I ask!
Tom Ford
Well, then why dont you ask the Current c/a if anyone is interfering with his doing his job?
Better still why dont you ask the current President of the BOA, Alderman Roby if he has had any discussions with ANYONE about ANYONE preventing/interfering with the C/A doing his job?
Why not ask the City Clerk if any elected offical has ordered her to do something directly instead of going through her boss, the C/A? Of course you will have to promise to be off the record with the answers they give you, but it would be interesting to hear that you did ask the partys I suggested.
Ok, I will do just that. However I am given to undersand that the C / A has been taking some of the Aldermen out for breakfast, so is that a factor in this?
Once again it seems we have "clique's" rearing their ugly head! In the words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"
What will I hear, who are you saying is at fault here?
Tom Ford
4:44 PM Tom, I am going to have to differ with you about this. I don't feel that you should speak about what happened with the Charter issue and relate it to a proposed ordinance and state it's a bad thing.
Yes, it may be that things are mentioned in the Charter regarding code of conduct as well as changes in the Civil Service. However I think depending on the way that this ordinance is worded, Alderman Bland's idea is worth discussion. Before we get upset about this, we need to read the ordinance that is being proposed.
I, for one, have been a victim of misconduct by an elected official. If you think that code of conduct in the 21st century is a fleeting thing, I can tell you that this will become more and more an issue. To make sure there are laws on the books to protect people, misconduct will win every time. It will be covered up like always, and instead of people supporting the rights of employees or residents or whoever in the City of Crestwood, people with big titles will get away with it every time.
I understand what you are saying about the Charter. But let's remember the past and maybe by this ordinance all appointed and elected officials will be forced to make the proper choices regarding how they choose to cover up the misdeeds of their peers and punish the innocent. Elected persons who serve the public should empower those that have been appointed as caretakers of the day to day operations of the City to do the right thing and if they see that it's not happening, they should use their authority to override those who choose to damage the innocent.
Maybe by this ordinance, people will be forced to act accordingly and own up to their mistakes.
I say, good for Alderman Bland.
Sandy Grave
Does anyone have any details as to the proposal?
Tom you don't seem to remember that the voters approved this measure last year. It was the only charter proposal they approved. So to the say that most people don't want it is, well, more wrong than right.
Once again, an Alderman further wasting time instead of trying to solve real problems facing the City.
Surely there is another City in this country that already has a charter/code that works that Crestwood could be modeled after.
Didn't the 9,000+ dollars spent with Lyle Sumek convince these officials that they need to be focused and work together? Guess not. We have to hire a consultant to tell us how to be leaders and how to administer the City?
The proposal gives the majority of the alderman the power to tell your alderman to shut-up and sit down if they don't like what he/she is doing. My alderman represents me and no one should tell him to sit down and shut-up because he's fighting for me and everyone in my ward. Tom, you're right, it is a freedom of speech issue.
Get a clue....it's political!
A code of conduct infringes on freedom of speech? Explain!
How about a Code of Conduct that states the BOA meetings will be governed by Roberts Rules of Order? Failure to do so will be a violation of the Code. Seem to recall that the Aldermen passed by a 8 to 0 vote, a motion that instructed the Chairperson run their (the Aldermen) meetings by that method. How is that limiting anyones freedom of speech?
Rules don't matter if NOT enforced. Roberts Rules of Order is not being followed. But ya know, it's the Mayor's meeting; just ask him. Embarrassing to say the least.
We all agree that the conduct of our aldermen could be improved upon. It has gotten more civilied since April when the new people came in. I remember Alderman Trueblood always asking that the board follow Robert's rules and that was good. I agree that we should follow the rules set in place now and NOT keep making more rules. I think we should be allowed to speak our minds at meetings. I remember a flyer that was passed out the day before an election with mis-information about an opponent. Some people at the pools said they wouldn't vote for someone who wanted imminent domain so they voted for the person who sent out the flyer with this mis-information. That person won by 17 votes. Had the voters known the truth, the other man would have won. We certainly do need the necessary changes in our code of conduct, especially those running for office. If we get the appropriate changes to our code of conduct, can we go back in time and apply this is the obvious mis-conduct of mis-stating what our opponents have said?
Talk about mistating.....
Why would the mayor state that more cuts can be made before asking for a tax increase when he has already done that by asking for Prop S????????
Why weren't the cuts proposed prior asking for that increase????
I guess it was easier to ask for an increase for "others" mistakes, but what about now? The cuts have been discussed for over 3-4 years now and not one person will stand up and state what needs to be eliminated to keep a balanced budget!!!!! now and in the near future. What happened to the plan??????
8:08 PM, July 23, 2007
"Shall Sections 3.7(b), 3.8 and 4.7(b) of the City of Crestwood Charter be amended as proposed by the Charter Review Committee by providing for censure of a
member of the Board of Aldermen or the Mayor for violating any prohibition of the Charter; the amended Sections 3.7(b), 3.8 and 4.7(b) to read as follows:
Section 3.7 VACANCIES; CENSURE/FORFEITURE OF OFFICE; FILLING OF VACANCIES.
(b) Censure/Forfeiture of Office – A member of the Board of Aldermen shall forfeit the office if such member lacks at any time during the term of such office any
qualification for the office prescribed by this Charter (except as provided in Section 8.4(c) of this Charter), or required by law. A member of the Board of Aldermen
shall be subject to either censure or forfeiture of office for violating any prohibition of this Charter.
Section 3.8 JUDGE OF QUALIFICATIONS.
The Board of Aldermen shall be the judge of the election and qualifications of the Mayor and members of the Board of Aldermen and of the grounds for either
censure or forfeiture of their office and for such purposes shall have power to subpoena witnesses, administer oaths and require the production of evidence. Any
person charged with conduct constituting grounds for either censure or forfeiture of office shall be entitled to a public hearing on written request. Decisions made
by the Board of Aldermen under this Section shall be subject to review by the courts.
Section 4.7 VACANCIES; CENSURE/FORFEITURE OF OFFICE; FILLING OF VACANCIES.
(b) Censure/Forfeiture of Office. The Mayor shall forfeit such office if at any time during the term of office the Mayor lacks any qualifications prescribed by this
Charter or by law. The Mayor shall be subject to censure or forfeiture of office for violating any prohibition of this Charter.
YES NO
SIMPLE MAJORITY
REQUIRED"
Did the voters approve the use of censure OR a code of conduct or both? I don't see anything regarding a 'code of conduct' in the above ballot language, do you? Please explain if you do.
7:29 AM blogger, ET AL: I do remember that part of the Charter change passing. However if you read the ballot language (above) you will see that "a code of conduct is not in there!
Now as for "A code of conduct infringes on freedom of speech? Explain!"
Well let's say that your Alderman want's to place something on the adgenda that Mine and some other Alderman don't like, they can simply charge your Alderman with a "violation" of the code, and shut him up!
How about if an Alderman is deemed to be taking to much time to express himself, can he then be "charged" with a violation?
Being somewhat of a history buff, I remember reading that in Germany they too had a "code of conduct." In that case it was designed to quell any and all opposition to the Reich, and it worked very well, didn't it.
We must believe that each and every one of the elected officials, as well as those they hire is a Gentleman, and understands the most basic of human deciency. If they do not, than any code will be of no use whatsoever!
As a blogger stated above, we have Roberts rules of order to govern meeting behavure, and I pray we have the people on that dias that will govern their personal behavure.
If not, well we can use the re-call prosses, it's in the Charter, and it's all we need!
By the way, as an after thought, just who is it that is lord high inquisitor, and makes the decision as to what's a violation, and what is not?
Tom Ford
Hoy-ya, hoy-ya, hoy-ya
Guess, who stepped in and helped move all this worry about censure into the city's equasion. Guess which charter issue passed but wasn't quite good enough to make the losers of the election happy??? Guess who just can't live with this administration and is hanging on for dear life in the shadows and now influencing the current city administrator and apparently Mr. Bland. What is in it for you, Mr. Bland? Seriously!
We all know which ex-alderman had a copy of Robert's Rules of Order ready to spring at every meeting, poised to attack the Mayor. Never used it on that despicable alderman whose mouth was bigger than his commitment.
Now this same ex-alderman has been cozying/meeting up with the city administrator and planting all sorts of seeds as to how to fully reign and ursurp all the Mayors initiatives. Guess he has told the CA that he may have been overstepping his boundaires and now needs this ex-alderman's good advice. *
The CA is a city employee, my employee, and the Mayor's employee, best he remember that)
This ex-alderman is at the ready at all times, flexing whatever muscles he thinks he has in the dark.Keeping the old pot boiling. How special!
Of course, he failed to mention that the city residents have actually had more than enough City Administrators who rule by their own rules and destroy the balance and committment of our city. And, then taken the backdoor out with a pocketful of our money as settlement leaving mismanagement of funds, etc. behind.
Yesiree, Mr. ex-alderman, you really are having a hellava time keeping your nose out of dirty politics, you and the Mrs. But, ya know, the CA really does not need you to load him up with the kind of hate and distrust our city had to endure when you were alderman and before the current administration. You, sir, are the main reason that term limits are the cats meow.
We know how you operate and it is a disappointment. Now apparently you have passed your venomous ways on to that Ward 1 Alderman, who is so obviously trying to run for Mayor from his aldermanic seat. People who create a good setting with good results have a much better opportunity here than those who love to hate.
I am watching the votes and already see a pattern. Seems there are 3 alderman looking for weapons of mass destruction at each meeting. Interesting! Keep watching folks, this is not progress, it is Crestwood politics. Not a recipe for progress.
Ladies and Gentlemen! I have just returned from the BOA work session where the "code of Conduct" was handily defeated!
There is reason for hope here as 7 of the nine voted nay on this ill advised legislation, and for darn good reason.
Comments from the elliquent Martha Duchild, and others seemed to put the final nail in this witch hunt for once and for all.
It was pointed out that you cann'ot legislate morality, and that our board is either ethical, honest, or it's not, and if not, adding another "layer to the cake" isn't going to change that!
I still can't understand why anyone thought it was needed from the get go. The author was not happy,just shook his head and stared at the table.
Had this been inacted I would have asked that he be censured as he did not give the citizens the respect of looking at them during their presentation's! A clear violation of his own code! So in a way he is lucky this failed!
Now on to better thing's for the City!
Tom Ford
Wow. That was quick. Tom, who voted in favor along with Bland?
Ward two Alderman Pickel I believe. Sorry my hearing is not the best, but it sounded like him. We shall see!
Tom Ford
Are there minutes to this meeting 7/24, if so, where does one get them? I am interested in finding out the reasons behind this kind of meeting, is there a problem with conduct? Why and who is wasting time with this sort of thing? Seems we have greater problems hanging overhead. Who called this meeting and what was the inspiration? Where was this concern when we had an alderman accusing another alderman of being a snake in the grass (among other things) at a PUBLIC BOA meeting?
Thanks.
Had this stab at correcting bad behavior happened when you know who was acting badly at almost every meeting, I might have felt something more is necessary. There were a few times when the Mayor had to turn off his mike and then the Mayor was critized for doing so. This whole evening was a waste of time for our already overworked aldermen. What a shame the author can't find something worthwhile to concentrate on rather than a poorly vieled attempt to give the mayor grief. But it's not hard to image the same someone lied about his opposition to gain his position. If anyone needs behavioral modification, it's this one.
This alderman did not win by a landslide now did he? Now what is he up to? Must be the newly chosen pit bull replacing one who did not run again.
Worth remembering is the last minute undignified pathetic and nasty politics put out to sway voters falsly accusing the opposition with an absolute lie. Integrity or rather lack thereof will forever haunt this official as dirty pool is one thing residents are SICK OF. Keep an eye on this one folks.
Poster 5:23p.m., 7/24
Provide the readers of this blog with your proof that the current C/A is cozying/meeting with any ex Alderman.
Explain why it is an attack on the Mayor when the Aldermen instruct him to run their meetings by following Roberts Rules of Order?
You can't do either because like your other posts on this blog, they are lies. You see, we know who you are by your writing style and your lies. We know you can only operate under cover. The fact that you are too frightened to speak publicly at a meeting is know to many of us who have worked with you and your parents in the past.
So, answer the questions or by not doing so admit you have no proof and are lying again.
K ... did you forget to sign your post?
11:11 PM, July 24, 2007
The person you think wrote the 5:23 post - didn't.
This Code of Conduct was dismissed as well it should have been. I believe the vote was 5-3 as always. If this is the case and I'm not positive, that only means one of our ward 2 aldermman who spoke up saying it was not of utmost importance to get a new code of conduct apparently turned around and voted for it anyway. Do as I say-not as I do. So much for voting to keep your friends happy and nothing to do with the good of the city. Here we go again. Always the ward 2 guys and the ward 1 guy. Who knows where his head is at But if he's buckin for the mayorship, he needs a better plan.
To the person who wrote on 11-11pm on the 24th, I could certainly use your clairvoyant skills with my stocks and bonds, think you could help me out? I don't need to sign my name because if you know who wrote that message your referred to you'll also know who wrote this. Call me.
Is it true that motions can not be made and voted on at work sessions?
Even if there can't be, no problem. Just have the board make a motion at the next meeting and have them vote on it again. Not like it would change the outcome.
Tom, you said you were going to ask the C/A, Alderman Roby and the City Clerk the questions poster 5:09 7/23 suggested you do. Since you were at the meeting last nite, did you ask them?
thanks!
Cant call you your phone number is unlisted.
My phone number is 314-341-2307
Tom Ford
4:31 PM blogger: There was no chance to ask either of them in private, so I tabled the question for a future time.
Rest assured it will happen though.
Tom Ford
An alderman wanting a new 'code of conduct' at the meeting last night held his head down in his hand rather than showing 'respect' for two speakers by sitting up straight and listening to them. So apparently he wants a code of conduct for others, not himself or doesn't he realize his conduct was socially and politically incorrect? If he starts a new list of everything everybody does wrong, let's hope he puts his boo boo first on his list.
what a stupid statement, but then why should anyone be surprised
For 7:17am I didn't understand what was stupid about the previous comment. It was overheard by others that 'this' alderman said he was going to start keeping a list of the things others said that he would consider 'bad' conduct. I would agree that sitting with your head in your hands rather than looking at a speaker who is directly speaking to you would be considered at the very least rude, don't you agree? I would very much like to know what kind of bad conduct needs to be corrected? I haven't seen any bad conduct since the new people were sworn in unless of course you don't like when the mayor expresses himself. One of our newer alderman is very long winded, maybe it's the seat he occupies because the previous alderman who sat there talked endlessly too. All is all the problem seems to be we all see what others do that we don't like but never take a good hard look at ourselves.
"It was overheard by others that 'this' alderman said he was going to start keeping a list of the things others said that he would consider 'bad' conduct."
Wow. If he said this, do you think it would be on the tape?
get the tape, too bad we don't film the aldermen meetings then we wouldn't have to rely on reports from those who choose to remain anonymous and who site quotes from other unname people who claim to have overheard someone say something. with films we could watch out for those who dont look at the speaker and other sinful behaviour. Another stupid post! I am not surprised.
Gee, you're awfully harsh.
"Another stupid post! I am not surprised."
Perhaps you need to relax. I know a great place. The Crestwood Swim Club. Swim your cares away in the clear cool waters of such a wonderful pool. You have to buy a membership, but I'm sure that will be no concern to you. Enjoy.
I am not now nor have never been a member of any swim club any were. What your post has to do with a City Code of Conduct is beyond me, which makes your post very stupid!
Welcome to the stupid post club, taking membership applications now.
Kiddies! There is no such thing as a "stupid post!" What youu see is the thoughts of your fellow citizenry on display.
A blog is a give and take, sharing of ideas, not a place to attempt to be "holier than thou," or for that matter, "smarter than thou!"
I am sorry to se that some have chosen to stoop to insults rather that polite discourse. That will happen though, but if you want to be taken seriously here, stick to the issues!
Tom Ford
How can an Alderman vote against a new restaurant at the Sappington development? I'm not sure why he did, but one of Alderman raised concerns because it was another Mexican style restaurant. Who really cares if there are already 3 Mexican restaurants on Watson? May the best ones win. We all win from competition.
And anyway this restaurant has a much different format than the other ones.
http://www.pancheros.com/media.php
Maybe he was concerned about market saturation.
But is that an Alderman's decision? If they were worried about market saturation they should not have built "more" retail on Watson...
9:47 P.M. July 26
In addition to the fear of market saturation (why have 3 Mexican restaurants and risk the failure of 2 when there are other types of restaurants that could fill the space), perhaps the alderman is also concerned that the developer is not delivering on what was promised at the time he approached the city for CID money.
Can a Mexican-style Subway be considered a high-quality, high- end retailer? Will the developer be able to attract the promised high-end retailers if he is placing fast food restaurants in this development?
These are just a few issues to consider, and may explain an alderman's reticence about approving whatever tenant the developer brings to the board for approval.
Martha Duchild
Come on. Starbucks is not even high-end.
Take a look at the photos of Pancheros. It's every bit as "high-end" as Starbucks or Bread Co.
Again, let the market decide what works. We don't need another lawsuit. It's just not the City's role to "protect" a business from competition.
Did the CID board specify details on what "high-end" is?
typical liberal thnking, afraid of the free market place.
THis city should be grateful that there is any development of any kind considering the demographics of the community and location away from highways as compared to other municipalities. It is even more laughable that a small faction of people are now going after a second developer--(GREWE and THF) What a way to welcome and encourage development. Further the self-proclaimed retail experts in town are preaching about what is high end and not high end. SAD SAD SAD
Poster 8:02 7/27/07 you are 100% correct, it is laughable, the position that is taken on TIF CDD, etc. by the elected leadership of this city, the broken promise to Kohle developer (THF) by the elected officals of this city, the head in the sand response to the "up coming storm", the opposition to replacing Ms. Daily, we are luck that we any retail here now.
By the way, any one know why that great sales tax producer The Salvation Store has not opened yet? Is our business friendly climate too much for them or is it the fact they know the store would fail in Crestood like 47% of the stores in the Mall have done by voting with their feet and leaving?
Question? when do we start asking what bringing back Crestwood means?
8:02 &8:28
I believe you are overlooking some very obvious facts here. Look what is occurring in Old Webster, Downtown Kirkwood and the U-City Loop. Those areas aren,t located ,as you say, near highways and they are doing nicely. As for the Salvation Army, maybe when Goodwill moved into Sunset Hills, they changed their minds. But I can understand your frustration. I think we would all like to see things improve in our community.
Good point--but I dont think these other cities have such bizarre infighting and misguided factions (As we have in Crestwood) who are trying to thwart development at every turn. There are no grudges being held FOR YEARS that are causing them to lash out at potential developers or city leaders.
Amazing, grudges held for years like those held against a Private Swim Club has changed the politcal battlefield that to be open to the use TIF's & CDD's means you must be pro Swim Club. Simple amazing, and what has the current group of elected officals done to change this? Nothing because most of them either hold a grudge against the Swim Club or depend on supporters who hold a grudge against the Club.
Simply amazing, no fearless leadership in City Hall speaking out for what is best for the City for fear of lossing their politcal support. It's all about getting re-elected.
I don't think there is anything wrong with interjecting ideas about new businesses. These ideas represent more than just one person's. Others probably have the same concerns. It is never good to layer too many of the same establishments and then sit and watch them fail. This just adds to our already dismal reputation.In Crestwood, it is not hard to imagine failure, i.e. perhaps the mall would be better served if there were not store after store selling the same thing. Perhaps the blogger who fails to see logic in comments by the alderman who pointed out a few facts about duplication does not know the history of restaurants in this city. Seems he just has a personal grudge here and frankly this is not at all constructive. To me it is just plain exciting to see any form of creative thinking and individuality in thinking on the Crestwood BOA. However, bloggers on this blog are used to the people whose main goal is to tear down all attempts to level the playing field and bring a deserving city back on the horizon of success. I have, as one blogger said, also noticed that there seem to be 3 aldermen on that board who actually do vote as a bloc and I fail to see any way they contribute to anything or represent anyone if their agenda is to oppose the other 6 at every turn. As for the code of conduct idea. Let's hope that our officials who have many decisions to make and whose time is as valuable as ours have the good sense and maturity to behave. Fortunately for Ward 2, the alderman for whom a code of conduct would have applied had the good sense to not run again. If the Ward 1 alderman wants to take notes, then we will surmize he is simply more involved in pettiness, is bored, and not fully engaged in the details of running our city. This is a more than fair appraisal.
7:34AM
Do we truly have a free market place? What about regulations? What about incentives (e.g. TIF, TDD, etc.) given to one business and not the other?
A truly "free market place" may play well in theory, but might be difficult to find in reality.
That said, competition can be good, as long as there is no over saturation.
8:02AM
"Further the self-proclaimed retail experts in town are preaching about what is high end and not high end."
So what are you saying? Would you be OK with any type of retail establishment within this city?
poster 3:49 couple of notes about your post
There are 8 aldermen, not nine, the Mayor is not an Alderman, and only can vote to break ties on ordances.
What about the five other alderman who seem to vote aas a block each time, have a problem with that?
So what if 3 or five always vote the same way, it only takes 5 votes out of 8 to pass a motion.
12:51 PM
So you are saying others hold grudges. Do you have any grudges?
Right, there are 8 aldermen. Also, I believe you know exactly what the vote division means or you would not take issue with it. It does not take a Rhodes Scholar to translate the votes of those 3 aldermen. You see, we all know of their mutual affiliations. But, now that both opinions have been expressed, maybe we can hope to be able to depend on some constructive conversation relating to good things we can do together for our city. You had your turn, I had mine.
Chio.
If I want to open a restaurant that I think will be better than any of the competitors in the area (Because this restaurant's format is unlike any others around) and my business is not "adult" oriented or "bar/nightclub" oriented why can't I?
They are not the developer and they are not asking for tax incentives. Perhaps they should go to Sunset Hills?
Hmm, why did Outback Steakhouse give up on Crestwood?
All High-end really means is that this strip mall has a brick facade.
I hope the economic development director steps in and has a talk with the BOA. This is not a good signal to send to the developer or the possible future tenant.
Can Bland's code of conduct protect the city from future trouble?
What harm will this code of conduct do for our city?
Who wrote Bland's code of conduct?
Can the Civil Service Board be in charge of the Compliance and Enforcement of Code of Conduct versus the alderman?
Who has jurisdiction over the Code of Conduct?
Would the Code of Conduct act as an Insurance of prevention of future problems with the City's business?
By having each public official sign individually the code of conduct, does this reinforce accountability, integrity, and release the City of Crestwood of their wrong doing and allow for the Alderman to request an investigation immediately.
Does the Civil Service Board have power over our public officials in any way?
We need a legal opinion on why the Code of Conduct would benefit the City of Crestwood.
By the way, the City of Ellisville has a code of conduct.
That's wonderful. Good for Ellisville.
"We need a legal opinion on why the Code of Conduct would benefit the City of Crestwood" ... or why it would not ...
Crestwood is a Charter city and therefore we abide by our Charter. I don't know whether or not Ellisville is Charter. The Charter/code of conduct is basically the same thing. It's the rules all public officals go by. To have both is redundent. Why do we need a leg opinion. The Charter has been in place for over 11 years and is great. We don't need to add rules, we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Perhaps when you get through discussing conduct and secret meetings and why an alderman would interject opinions on duplication of businesses, and taking notes on official behavior and planting lies about disturbing the employeesm although they are municipal employees and subject to queries, you can get busy finding ways to save money and stabilize finances. Surely you can learn to take your responsibilities more seriously. Constituants are not looking for a police state. By comparison, Roy is doing a great job.
If you are in these public positions for the City of Crestwood for making decisions, then you are expected to have the time, background, and insight to deal with whatever comes up.
By signing a individual code of conduct accepts responsibility of their public office.
Is the Civil Service Board only for investigating full-time employees with benefits versus elected officials?
Is our Charter similiar to our U.S. Constitution which gives policies of how the City of Crestwood can be run? So therefore, a Code of Conduct for our Public Officials will reinforce their fidiciary and public interest responsible as a public official.
I believe Alderman Bland is not challenging issues but is trying to reinforce guidelines for public offices as compared to Civil Service Employees.
Who is watching the Civil Service Board and if they in fact have in their extent of their authority have over both our public officials and employees of the City of Crestwood?
If this true of our Civil Service Board, then why do they not want a Code of Conduct for all Crestwood public officials and employees.
By the way, the Citizens of Crestwood did not vote on a Code of Conduct for all public officials.
Please correct your blog comment.
Let the record show the following from the City of Crestwood Charter that was adopted on November 7, 1995.
3.1 All powers of the City shall be vested in the Alderman
4.4 The Mayor shall provide at the meetings of the Board of Alderman but shall not vote except in a tie.
Let the record show the election results held on 11/7/2006
Prop 3 Censure of Officials
Yes votes 3,359
No votes 2,454
This is not my opinion but what the record shows for the City of Crestwood for all citizens to view.
To Sandra Grave,
Your blog article was excellent.
Please continue with your articles to help educate the importance of a Code of Conduct for our public officials.
It is time we establish a Code of Conduct regime with all necessary enforcement tools.
All must conduct themselves according to this code, otherwise known as Crestwoodspeak. If one chooses not to conduct themselves according to Crestwoodspeak, he or she should be severly punished!
Radios, cameras, internet devices shall track all movements, writings, and speech. As technology develops, all thoughts should be monitored as well.
OBEY AND CONFORM YOURSELF TO CRESTWOODSPEAK! BIG BROTHER WILL BE WATCHING!
Here is a suggested item for code of conduct. Instead of starting a rumour--for example, our city administrator is being unduly influenced and posting it on a stupid blog--why doesnt Tom Ford contact the City Administrator directly and voice his concerns?The City administer might appreciate it.
2:12 PM blogger: Well Tom Ford did just what he was asked to do by one of your buddies, ask Alderman Roby. I did not start the rumor, one of your people (Roy haters anonymous) did, I corrected it!
Frank Myers is quite capable of taking care of himself so why bother him with this trite question?
Now as to the "stupid blogs" remark I must tell you that your comments on here tell me that "stupid is as stupid does,"
But that's ok, post away, I will never call you anything but "blogger!"
Now on the subject of a code of conduct. You cannot legislate morals, scrupils, or ethics! These are core values that are instilled in you by your parents, your teachers, and the clergy.
To believe any code of conduct is going to stop anyone who does not possess these values is to believe that the earth is flat. You want another layer for the cake, but in essence what you really want is a political tool to shut up your opponents! Well, your not going to get it! This is still America, and we will still use our freedom of speech rights paid for in blood!
In closing let me say that anyone who would not allow discourse fails to see and understand American Politics!
Tom Ford
Question for Ms Grave: Had there been a Code of Conduct when you were employeed at City Hall, would the incident to which you refer, which was a personal incident, have fallen under the scrutiny of this code had there been one, or would it have conveniently been swept under the carpet? In other words, is this code enforced at the will of the city administrator, or WHO putting it in the realm of politics and favoritism? I ask this because I am wondering if this Code, introduced at the BOA recently, was for employees, elected officials or both? I would agree that if there was a Code of Conduct for employees of the city that it would be very beneficial for all. An assurance of professional behavior expected of employees. If it was for elected officials, this is a different animal altogether and is probably duly covered in the Charter. There was a state rep. who was inebriated and ran into a sign and destroyed it and was found by police sitting on a curb in a subdivision. He was not arrested or censured, but guess what, he was re-elected. So, what are the expectations of the public? Act up at city hall, bad - but act up elsewhere go right ahead. It just gets complicated and hard to clarify. If an alderman insults a resident or fellow alderman on the dais as was done last year, he should publicly apologize to the entire board and if not, submit his resignation. Gentleman's Agreement. Period. What do you think?
If the Civil Service Board can only hear about issues with non-exempt employees, who can investigate an exempt employee at the City of Crestwood?
Does the Civil Service Board fall under the U.S. Department of Labor policies?
Do we only have insurance on our Mayor and Board of Alderman? What about our other board members?
The Code of Conduct wording could be changed to include all exempt employees and public officials to establish their rules of order for representing the City of Crestwood.
Code of the U.S. Fighting Force
Code of Conduct was established by President Dwight D. Eisenhower on August 17, 1955, after the Korean War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_United_States_Military_Code_of_Conduct
U.S. Code of Conduct
http://www.fas.org/asmp/campaigns/code/uscodecon.html
U.S. House of Representatives Code of Official Conduct
http://usgovinfo.about.com/blhousecode.htm
Tom,
We need a Code of Conduct to stop all of these closed door meetings that pertain to issues in the City of Crestwood.
Tom,
How about interviewing Alderman Bland to get his understanding on his Code of Conduct ideas?
How would a Code of Conduct stop closed meetings?
According to the poster at 6:46PM, the U.S. House of Representatives has a Code of Conduct. How do you think that is working so far?
Did Mr. Bland explain the purpose and reasons for his code of conduct? Is this code of conduct based on policy and legislative workings or behavior and procedure?
Does not the Charter lay out a basic framework of rules and procedures for the board and mayor?
How would a code of conduct help with the issues the city faces today: revenue generation, economic development, service delivery, constituent representation?
If the Code of Conduct was introduced for the purpose of intimidating/trapping a Mayor (nothing more than a political ploy and the usual bloc games)then this idea brought up at the BOA Meeting merely wasted everybody's time. The Charter should cover true cases of official misbehavior.
If the Civil Service Code covers misbehavior of employees, then that should suffice or be revised. Codes of Conduct are important for employees, for if there are none then employees see unpunished misbehavior and this is trouble. The Civil Service Board appears to be well grounded, and capable.
I am wondering why the Ward 1 Alderman in the spirit of teamwork did not just state at the meeting that he would like to discuss the possibility of this measure and would welcome input and discussion. This is not a quick fix. You know, had the former Ward 2 alderman still been there, he would have accused this alderman of grandstanding.
Code of Conduct is a serious matter and one that should never become political. Shame on anyone who turns it in this direction.
Does anyone know if ordinances written by the City Attorney and charged for by him must be pre approved or are they just sprung at the next meeting with no board consensus?
Ask your Mayor and Alderman why the City of Crestwood has so many closed door sessions on personnel matters?
How long can the City of Crestwood continue to pay multiple lawyers for all of these employee lawsuits?
How are our exempt employees interacting with non-exempt employees of the City of Crestwood?
If the Civil Service Board only handles non-exempt employees, then who is monitoring the exempt employees?
If Alderman Bland would add the words of "all exempt employees" to his Code of Conduct ordinance, then this give confidence of our local government to our citizens.
6:46 PM blogger: A code of conduct will not stop the closed door sessions at all, that's a different issue.
What this was designed to do was halt certian Aldermen, and the Mayor from holding the floor for too long! This has nothing to do with anything other than politics, plain and simple.
Now why do we need that?
Tom Ford
Did the Code of Conduct actually state to halt certain Alderman and the Mayor from holding the floor too long?
If you had to sign a Code of Conduct, then you will know you are responsible for your actions.
A charter came about due to the abuse of power by Mayor's.
Code of Conduct is being required in both Government and Corporations due to the abuse of power by the exempt employees in Local Government.
What would it hurt by making sure each public official understands that their decisions?
Code of Conduct is not monitoring behavior but making sure their decisions are in align with all Government Agencies.
6:18 PM blogger: Of course not, do you think they are that dumb? I think you know how to behave, and so should they!
Just be an honest, forthright citizen, and do your job Mr. Alderman, and we will never need a "code!"
Tom Ford
Where is behavior mentioned in Alderman Bland's Code of Conduct document?
Your definintion of honest, forthright citizen may not be the same for everyone.
By having a Code of Conduct gives a baseline of establishing your citizen duties as a public official.
We need a Code of Conduct to protect the City of Crestwood in all business deals and transactions.
6:23 PM "A charter came about due to the abuse of power by Mayor's."
What mayor? Was this in Crestwood or somewhere else?
6:50PM "Where is behavior mentioned in Alderman Bland's Code of Conduct document?"
I don't know because I have not seen it yet.
"We need a Code of Conduct to protect the City of Crestwood in all business deals and transactions."
How will a Code of Conduct protect the city? Does not the c/a execute most business deals and transactions with approval from the board, and at times necessary, approval from the city attorney? How would adding another layer of government 'protect' Crestwood?
OBEY AND CONFORM YOURSELF TO CRESTWOODSPEAK! BIG BROTHER WILL BE WATCHING!
The Code of Conduct would wake up our public officials on how they can loose heavy on it - their jobs, their livelyhood, their creditials, stop them from being a politician in the future.
You forget your oath but when it is written and signed by you, the Code of Conduct document will come back the same way as you signed it the first time.
This is a legal protection and makes the public officials ask questions and know the law by their questions.
By not knowing the law, the Charter processes, the Civil Service Board guidelines forces our public officials to go through a lawyer or a lawfirm.
How do you know if the lawyer is following the law of the government?
You can read the Code of Conduct submitted by Alderman Bland by
http://www.ci.crestwood.mo.us/agendas_minutes/Default.aspx?BoardID=1
Click on July 24
then Click on Code of Conduct Policy
By the way, Code of Conduct is not another layer in the government, it is validating your fudiciary responsibilities as a public official by asking questions.
How about having a public work session on the Code of Conduct for all Citizens of Crestwood to dialogue?
The Code of Conduct is for the Alderman because the Mayor is just a figurehead according to the Charter.
So many things come through the Alderman because they make the decisions for the City of Crestwood.
So, there we need a Code of Conduct for our Alderman to make them accountable for their actions and to ask questions to escalate their concerns and issues.
9:40 PM July 29
They already had a public work session on the code of conduct. It took place an hour before the last BOA meeting. The public was allowed to attend and speak at this work session.
Martha Duchild
Reading this string, it is obvious that no 2 people have the same idea on the Code of Conduct issue. Like so many other things in this city, everything seems to be rush rush rush. This is suspect. Also it often seems when bigger issues arise, some alderman always introduces diversionary tactics. How about dedicating valuable time to the budget, revenue, evaluating our systems, checking out existing facilities and learning to make do with what we have while maintaining it.
This is to answer the blogger at 4:12 PM July 28th under BOA work session 7/24.
You asked a question of me (Sandra Grave); stating, had this proposed ordinance by Ald Bland been on the books at the time of my incident, would it have made a difference in my case?
Yes is the answer. But it's not simple. In retrospect, at that time, I could NOT have relied on the city fathers to show me justice; instead I had to pay for an attorney to get it. You have to remember, Civil Service was never strong anymore like back in the 1970's. So, I did what I had to do and hired my own attorney.
The City spent tons of money revamping civil service and contracted with a copy. However, Leichliter in his infinite wisdom put Don Greer in charge of it and it was all money wasted because Don ended up changing 70% of it to read it his way.
Mr. or Mrs. Blogger, whoever you are, it shouldn't matter whether one alderman gets to name calling another, or if its disrespect to one's peers on the dais, an elected official getting away with sexual harrassment of a city employee, or any other kind of harrassment by anyone connected with the city. It's wrong. Why it has to be delineated specifically as some on this blog think, I don't understand. Common sense should tell you.
Don't we all understand what conduct unbecoming is. Don't we understand that anyone working for Crestwood, elected, appointed, or employed in this City should maintain a code of conduct at their jobs and in their jobs? If it takes civil service getting involved in it, so be it. Then take the necessary steps and get it done.
Why does code of conduct need to be defined? FACT: If things are already in the Charter regarding misconduct, or code of conduct, censure, etc., and/or in the Civil Service rules, I can tell you that NO ONE in Crestwood government on December 12, 2002, and all of 2003 and some of 2004 was willing to step up and put it into action!!
They took the mayor out of office but covered the truth. Sorry but that's not good enough for me, and it wouldn't be good enough if it was your wife or daughter that was "put upon"?
Nobody on that board at that time, even people who knew me for 30 years were not appauld enough to speak up. I was by myself with no assistance from anyone up there.
All much to scared to show kindness or compassion and too willing to think that just maybe, the person they allowed to resign was at fault and should be taken to task. They got him to step down but it ended my career, not his.
Then to patronize him, they reward him by appointing him to the TIF Commission Sorry again if you are tired of hearing it.
SO, that was then and this is now. The people I worked with and the people I have met now at city hall are honest and hardworking people. They deserve a mayor and board and supervisors who will protect them under similar circumstances. That's all I can hope for.
NOW, THEREFORE, if all that Alderman Bland's proposed ordinance does is give our other laws a booster shot for what is on the books now, contrary to many on this blog and many of my friends, maybe we should not shoot it down.
If it is, as some feel, this ordinance is just a ploy to take down our mayor, then I feel sorry for this town because it doesn't have a chance to become a great place like it used to be. And politics will end up ruining it and all of us. This new board hopefully would NOT do that.
On the books should be written ABSOLUTELY ZERO TOLERANCE for anyone who abuses the rights of others and hold a responsible job or position with the city of crestwood,on any board, commission, as an employee, etc. That's the freedom I think comes first. To make innocent people suffer for the sins of people who have big titles is wrong.
There has to be a strong ethic by a mayor, board of aldermen members, and an honest and ehtically CA to enforce morals and get justice. I didn't have those things going for me.
Don Greer stomped on all the civil service rules and regulations and told the mayor and board what to do and they did it. FURTHER TELL ME HOW could someone who womanized all the years he served Crestwood like Don Greer, possibly feel any empathy for my plight. After all the mighty mayor at that time made him CA or (King) as he told me in his office. And everybody on the board of aldermen thought HE was GOD, and let him influence their thinking. I wonder what he is telling God now. Nevertheless, I pray for the repose of his soul because that's what Christians do.
The mayor and board of aldermen past, embraced Don Greer, and that mayor faded into the sunset and The Call said how wonderful and great he was. But that Blog Comment should be on the other page and not this one. That's all I can say.
And I thank you for your consideration in this matter.
Sandra L. Grave
Ms. Grave,
Thanks for sharing with us your first person experience with City Hall. Could you answer this question, what was your legal action against City of Crestwood called when it was settled, sexual harrasment or age discrimination?
7:22 AM All I can say to you is that I didn't file a lawsuit for age discrimination!!!
My case is over and done with and is history. I have answered your first question as best as I can.
I only used my case as a "yard stick" and to make a point; the point being I don't want anybody in City government, especially those who are elected officials, to feel they can threaten and harrass or act in an unprofessional or undignfied manner and not suffer the consequences. Maybe a code of conduct would enforce that.
If you are honored enough to be elected by the citizens of your community, you must have accountability. If you don't have it, you are not worth your salt and may harm innocent people in the process. Once again, a code of conduct could prevent it, if we work at it together.
I settled my lawsuit rather than dragging it in court which physically at that time, would have done me in. Why? I'll tell you why. I was sick, tired, had no job to go back to, I was verbally harrassed by telephone by Don Greer on several occasions while out on sick leave, and he told me that he wasn't going to allow me to collect my pension or my social security which the city would have had to sign off on. He told me that I was not welcome up at city hall and to stay away. He had people watching for me in case I did come into city hall; he had the girl at the Kiosk mark down everytime I tried to call him and to keep track of my calls --- so you tell me? What would he have done in a courtroom.
I used 8,000 dollars out of my own pocket to support myself while I was sick. Being without a salary after over 30 years isn't easy, you know. I had no job anymore. Therefore, what chance would I have had in a court room. Where was my protection? Don Greer controlled the new mayor and all the board members and they acted like good little boys and girls.
Had I gone to trial, I would have been a shooting target for anyone Don Greer chose to be a witness for the City of Crestwood. Why?
I found out from a few faithful friends I had in the police department and front office that Don Greer told them quote "you say what I tell you to say, or I will fire you", unquote.
I have now placed all my cards and issues in God's hands. I finally feel that it's out of my grasp and makes no difference to me anymore what people say.
This blog isn't going to change anybody's mind, people either think for themselves, or allow the wrong people to fill them in.
Mr. Chris Hesse, attorney for the city, made thousands upon thousands of dollars not only with my case, but in other cases against the city where Don Greer was involved. Check the records like Bob Duetchmann did, you'll see. That just makes me sick!
Don Greer had sexual harrassment going on in his department a long time. Was he upset? Did he correct it? Why should he be upset or correct it when he was the greatest of all womanizers himself. For instance, the city paid $40,000 to two female cops who were sexually harrassed by Greer's faithful buddy and friend on the force whom he made a Major while demoting Major Doug Mosby to Lieutenant. Maybe a code of conduct will help the next two female cops and the real perpetrator will be run out of town on a rail as it should be.
Some day, check the books and records and see how much we paid out to Chris Hesse attorney for the city. You would be amazed. And who was the one who finally had nerve enough to get rid of Greer? Roy that's who. And I will say it a million times, nobody had the guts to do it until Roy rose to the task. Had Roy not won the election, the mayor and the old board members would have kept Greer forever, until he took every last dime and dollar out of this city.
You tell me what chance I would have had in court with my lawsuit against the former mayor, when Don Greer and his paramore Diana Madrid were goo goo gah gah all over city hall. You think he cared one ounce about me being sexually harrassed?
Now, no more about my case. Most on this blog are tired of hearing me and have told me so. If your question was meant to be tricky, well I guess I've been tricked.
Thanks.
Sandy Grave
No, sir, with all due respect, I don't feel telling you anymore about me is at the helm of this discussion. It's gone and done. It's what may happen in the future that we need to be concerned about.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sandra Grave
Anyone can suit the City of Crestwood as an employee.
It is easy money so we need a Code of Conduct to slow this train!
6:20 PM Easy money? A code of conduct to stop the train?
Easy money, you say? Now you are showing who you really are.
You can take my issue and go in another direction if you so desire, just like any phony lawyer would do. But you show the coward that you are when you don't sign your name. It speak volumes.
You were neither concerned nor interested in what I had to say about code of conduct. You just pretended all along, didn't you and you thought I didn't see it coming. Wrong! And I didn't give you the answer you wanted either, did I?
Goody for you Bud. It's all sticks and stones to me. Toast your next vodka and water to yourself.
Sandra Grave
Sandra Grave
Did you have a doctor's confirmation of your illness or did you just not show up for work? I was told you just did not show up for work.
In most cases absence over a couple of days requires a doctor's note. Did you apply for short term disability or use your vacation for the time you were absent?
Dear Mr. Blogger or Bugger (which ever you are).
It doesn't really matter what you heard regarding my issue, it is what you believe that's important.
I am of the opinion that you choose to believe what you heard about me in regard to not showing up for work, as well as many more things. So why ask me. Surely it isn't because of your great concern or out of kindness for me.
By your insistence to do so, however, just shows everyone that you have an ax to grind with me, and have chose to do it on this blog.
I am done here and know. If you choose to continue with your idiotic bantor, don't expect me to chime in any longer. I am not on trial here and you have already made it clear how you feel.
PS: if anyone out there wishes to get this (whoever) off my back, I would appreciate it.
Sandra Grave
Gee wiz blogger, the lady answered you question, so let it lie!
Tom Ford
I believe what the records say took place, the suit was not over sexual harrasment, nor was it settled for same. If the evidence supported a case that could be won on the charge of sexual harrasemnt, that is what it would have been settled for, simply put, the evidence couldn't support that charge.
As Tom has said, let's stop bothering the lady, now.
Sandy gave a lot of years of service and hard work to Crestwood and for that, we should all be thankful! Thanks Sandy!
7:28 am Wrong! If the city of crestwood knew that the lawsuit had no merit, they would have won their case by going to court and would have wanted to have a trial. If they felt they had a case, it would have saved the city a lot of insurance money. The mere fact that the city had to pay something in the settlement tells the truth. The winner never has to pay up. But the city paid and had to pay the city's lawyer too.
So, it just illustrates to me as a citizen of Crestwood, that the city didn't have a leg to stand on. And I agree with Tom, let it be.
This whole blog comment is about an ethics code and as a matter of interest, every municipality in
this area has one but Crestwood.
Good God these blog comments always seem to get off the main track. Nobody really cares about this, other than you.
Interesting!
Ms. Grave seemed to care, she posted her views. I happen to agree with you and her and Alderman Bland, we should have a code of conduct/ethics code. I think when the Mayor whose job it is to run the Alderman meetings, doesnt follow their isntructions to him to run their meetings by Roberts Rules of Orders (RRO), you can have all kinds of crazy actions going on between the Board members and for that matter the Mayor. I believe the failure to control the meetings by the use of RRO after being told to do so is a violation of the Charter, and as such should be treated by censure. If an Alderman refused to obey the instructions of the majority BOA then they would be subject to censure. Until the elected offcials of our city have the guts to enforce what is already there, I doubt there will be any order in those meetings. That may be why there are only 10 people counting the media at their meetings any longer.
I think it would serve us well to just get past this weeks' tug of war. Whatever the case, I recall one day we had a Mayor, the next day this Mayor of the Sunshine edit, sans minutes, stepped into the land of ex-Mayors shedding zero sunshine on retreat.
Mrs. Grave, a nice person who served the city for many years would probably agree that incidents, which were not a proud moment for one of our officials and which precipitated her departure, are now history. In the archives of memory.
Mrs. Grave is a wife, mother, grandmother, friend to many and a longtime resident. She is talented and pretty. She does not need accolades to help her enjoy her retirement. She is just fine. So I volunteer to ask you to kindly get off her back. I suspect our community has more to gain by Mrs. Grave's residency and the time she has invested in our city than yours and I don't even know who you are. Just a hunch.
"I believe the failure to control the meetings by the use of RRO after being told to do so is a violation of the Charter, and as such should be treated by censure. "
Exactly. The Mayor is responsible to enforce the RRO during a meeting/work session. I guess the reason it is not followed is that the Mayor himself does not even follow the RRO. Been to any meetings????? If you have you would see exactly what I have seen by the Mayor and aldermen.
Which other cities have a code of conduct?
Why is the Muncipal league promoting a code of conduct?
Does all policeman have to sign a Code of Conduct?
I don't know, "does" they?
By crackie, I can see clearly now. The biggest problem in Crestwood is clearly that RRO is upset because it has lost its main sponsors, Mr. Tie and Mr. T. RRO is currently on the couch seeking help from Dr. Phil and freedom from feelings of rejection in the midst of a board, the majority of which is dedicated to sensibility. RRO has only a 3 out of 8 chance to create pitfalls against progress. Residents for a Prozac free RRO are lined up to sign a referendum for good government in Crestwood free from the tyranny of soreheads, losers and troublemakers.
10:51 PM blogger: Now that's the way to post! Witty, a "message," and a "plea for sanity" all wrapped up in one!
By Jove, I think you got it!
Tom Ford
Tom,
funny thing about the RRO is if you read the Charter it says that anything not addressed with in it is covered by the City's code book. City's code book says RRO shall be used as the method to govern the City's meetings.
So here you have the code book and the BOA of City, the group who make the laws of the City, requesting the Mayor run their meetings using RRO and you and poster 10:51 think it's funny that he refuses to do so. And the Mayor is proud of his degree in Law Enforcement?
I guess there are some rules that apply to only some of the people and not the Mayor and this must be one of them.
Know what I think? Think that if the city is tied up in knots about who has to write on the blackboard that they have been a bad boy at a meeting, they won't have time to run our city.
Next election, campaign literature should read: "I promise to behave myself so I can help our city gain control on its finances and stay afloat." Probably wouldn't hurt to have this on the "sworn in" statement, as well.
This distraction can only have meaning if we realize the creature who had the most need for censure was a red-face who abused his position, and had a mouth full of thorns and is now gone and almost forgotten. It's going to take a real stinker to beat his record. Let's just hope lessons learned here will make for a dignified and dedicated city board.
"Mouth full of thorns"? I guess that's as bad as having a head full of mush like five of our current Aldermen have. Or a wet noddle spine like our current C/A when comes to standing up to our current Mayor.
Yeah 7:25 am; it's much better when the CA has all the control like it was before. Yeah, your right!
KEEP READING >>>>>
"Poster 12:00 a.m. 8/7/07 Frank did what he did because it was the politcal correct thing to do. He had no choice, his boss, the Mayor told him to do what he did. If anyone really believes that Frank is not controlled by the Mayor, they are living in a fool's world."
7:18 AM, August 07, 2007
"Mouth full of thorns"? I guess that's as bad as having a head full of mush like five of our current Aldermen have. Or a wet noddle spine like our current C/A when comes to standing up to our current Mayor."
7:26 AM, August 07, 2007
Man, you are one unhappy camper but you are prolific, a morning man I am guessing. I am so sorry you have let your nerves get the best of you that early as you had the whole day ahead of you in which to churn. Not a healthy habit. Get a grip, man. What exactly has 5 aldermen, a mayor and a CA done to generate so much emotional mulch? I mean really if you could redirect your wealth of pitching dirty straw into an action plan, maybe you could get over yourself. Interesting tho, how you left out 3 aldermen while you were disgustipating. Wonder if they appreciate your bloodletting or are embarrassed by it.
By the way, are you working on your halloween costume yet?
If it's who I think it is, they could wear a bathing suit, and go as a "road map."
Since when does anything posted on this blog have to do with being the truth?
Check out the Mayor's quotes if you don't think he feels he is the boss of the C/A. He does after all, give the C/A his reviews.
Does the board have any input on the C/A's reviews?
Read your Charter for that answer. And while your at it note the requirement of the C/A to notify the BOA when the budget is going into the red. Think for a second, the C/A did that as required by the Charter, the Mayor said it was a quess by a former employee and then the C/A reports all is peachy with the budget.
What do you think brought about the C/A's change?
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