August 14, 2007 BOA meeting cancelled!
Please click the header for details.
Also please see the Crestwood web site for details on the August 28, 2007 meeting for new tax rates.
Tom Ford
NO 371
Also please see the Crestwood web site for details on the August 28, 2007 meeting for new tax rates.
Tom Ford
NO 371
posted by Crestwood Independent at 10:11
60 Comments:
Tom,
A friend of mine who works for Dillards in the mall told me tonight that they will be closing in October. Have you heard this?
Yes, I was there today and heard it as well.
Plus, there is an article in the St. Louis Post Dispatch:
taken from stltoday.com
"Crestwood to lose Dillard's
By Gail Appleson
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
08/14/2007
The Dillard's in Crestwood Plaza is closing the customer service department confirmed on Monday. The department said the store hopes to close by Oct. 20..."
I guess the Mayor telling Westfield they have till the end of summer to do something is having the effect he wanted. In less than a week the Mall is up for sale and one of the anchors lets it be know they are closing in Oct. of this year, before the Christmas shopping season, ouch.
Good thing he is calling a meeting of the Ways and Means Committe on 8/15/07 to figure out what to do.
Hope all who back the Mayor regardless how poorly he does, attend so they can see your man in action! Remember he said he wanted our budget to be one one page so he could understand it? Rememeber he said instead of computer software all we needed was a couple of clerks and pencils to do the work? Remember he said he had a plan?
I remember. I also remember a massive amount of time and money being spent on police palace plans instead of economic developement. I also remember board meetings spent talking about Roberts Rules and Codes of Conduct. I also remember that new furniture was purchased for the mayor's office years ago. I also remember that taxes increases have been put before the voters almost every year for the past eight years. I also remember that several competitive stores were built near the ailing mall. I also remember one man being given two high profile, high responsibility jobs. I also remember a lot of legal bills. Funny, you didn't mention any of those things.
Our Dillard's is closing and our mall is up for sale, yet I read this about Northwest Plaza...TIF panel endorses Northwest Plaza plan
By Buck Collier
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:36 AM CDT
A panel scrutinizing a proposal to redevelop Northwest Plaza has signed off on the plan and is recommending approval by the St. Ann Board of Aldermen.
The formal adoption of the St. Ann TIF Commission's resolution is expected to take place at the aldermen's workshop session later this month.
Under the proposal from mall owner Somera Capital Investments and General Growth Properties, the management firm working with Somera, $82 million in tax revenue resulting from the renovation - along with $12 million generated by a new tax levied only on sales at the shopping center - would be used to help pay for public improvements associated with the renovation.
Through the Tax Increment Financing (TIF) program, a portion of the revenue normally allocated to the various taxing districts - schools, cities, library districts and other service providers - is set aside for a specific period of time to finance such projects as street work, water and sewer lines and other infrastructure work. The Northwest Plaza TIF bonds are projected to be paid off in 14 years.
The $12 million would be generated by a 1-cent sales tax levied within a Community Improvement District, in this case within the boundaries of Northwest Plaza.
On a 10-1 vote Thursday, the TIF Commission endorsed the proposal, capping a process that began early this year. The vote came after several residents offered comments at a public hearing in the St. Ann Community Center.
How come they are getting things done up North and we are stuck with a mess?
The mayor knew of all of those items you mentioned and he said he had a plan. Period.
To date I have not seen any long term plan.
A couple of new stores opening up will not make up for the declining income from sales tax from Crestwood Plaza.
The 5 year projection that the CA (via Justina Tate) is required to provide has not been taken seriously by the mayor. According to him, they are just "guesses".
The Ways and Means Committee did not address the declining sales tax issue last year. Maybe this year it will get their attention.
They knew last year that Dillards was contemplating closing and Macy's being on a month-to-month lease. Not new news.
The amount of annual tax received from Dillards alone is around $460,000 per year. Most of which is seen the first quarter of the year. Won't be seeing it 1st qtr of 2008 now will we?!?
glad you can remember all those item, but what the heck do they have to do with the mayor's promises and actions? Do you remember the sinking of the Maine and use that as your reason for not liking Spanish food?
11:47 AM, August 14, 2007
I hope you were referring to the poster at 11:12 AM, August 14, 2007 - not previous post (11:22 AM). Right?
11:47 AM, August 14, 2007
Or was your post referring to 10:27 AM?
And I agree - no action (plan) has been put in place from the mayor.
To 10:27...bringing up history that should, by now, be laid to rest, doesn't exonorate the current mayor's shortcomings. Thought everyone on this blog had begged that we move past that and focus on the 'now'.
The 'now' isn't looking so hot, and the Mayor, who needs a 'bank statement' budget to understand it and never implemented any 'plan', has some explaining to do, or needs to step aside.
I hear a rumor that our current city administrator is none too happy and looking for new employment. I guess this will give Roy someone else to blame publicly for his ineffective time in office.
That history, that you tend to want to ignore (perhaps you were a part of it?) put Crestwood where it is today. Speaking of history, you brought up what the mayor said about the accounting software. Didn't he say that in a mayoral debate over two years ago? Is that not history? Or what about the fact that a local newspaper brings up a former mayor's sunshine award? Is that not the past?
I guess it is OK for only certain parts of history to be mentioned, as long as an attack can be spun against the current mayor.
What will the mayor do now? Why don't you ask him? You can e-mail him or call him. Or if you want, you can attend a meeting or two.
If you are not happy with what this mayor has done, you also have the opportunity to run this April.
Bingo! It seems that some of us like what I call "selective" history!
Provide me the proof that the items you listed have caused the conditions that we are in today. I want a spread sheet showing how the items you listed caused the Mall to be up for sale, that the closing of Dillards has been caused because of office furniture purchased, that the General Fund is in the condition it is today because of an attempt to improve the conditions that the people who serve us work in with an upgraded building. Prove it, you can't prove that this mayor has done a thing to address what is happening at the Mall and in fact has been so out of touch, he spent more time on getting the Civil Service codes changed and fighting against the Charter changes that he has done nothing except ask for tax increases.
Oh, I am sure a tax increase is coming. How else can Crestwood afford the services they are getting now?
I am not saying that is a "bad" thing. The funds need to come from somewhere to pay for the services. But according to the mayor - he sees no need for a tax increase. I believe that is because he is not looking past the present.
Let's see....the past 2 years..
new retirement community
new salvation army???
pretty vacant Creston center
Prop S instead of bonds (does not solve the long term problem)
financing $$ to Grewe (Ace Hardware)
NOT following RRO
NOT believing the 5 year projections ("guesses")
Please tell me that I am missing something.... Can't see much positive progress.
Can't imagine that purchasing an expensive chair had any effect on the above. (not saying it was a wise thing to do...) Nor the law suits that were brought on by the current mayor regarding former employees that were "bad".
Hilarious! I don't need to provide any proof whatsoever!
Just think if the 2 mill spent on design fees was in a reserve fund. Wouldn't we be better prepared for the situation we are in? Or the money spent on legal bills. What if that money was in a reserve fund?
How much time did Robertson and Fagan spend talking to Westfield or working on the mall situation?
If you want to find some proof, try to find some proof on that!
By the way, the civil service codes needed to be updated and the proposed charter changes were ... well unusual.
Oh sorry I forgot! Fagan wanted to lease office space from Westfield for $3,333.00 a month while city hall was retrofitted. That would have helped Westfield ... uh huh! Wasn't the city functioning on borrowed money at that time?
$2 mil was not expensed for design fees. But how about that $1mil + that disappeared prior to CA Greer? Oh, I guess we won't talk about either. Come on.....
It still is.. where I come from loans are borrowed money.
Where do you come from? The city was in debt and spending money for a police palace. What was the 2 mill spent for? Sunshine and roses? Did not previous administrations/aldermen even consider the city's economic condition as they were trying to build such an extensive project?
What did they do when they were up on the dias?
Yeah, what did Fagan and Robertson do for Westfield? Did they communicate with them? What was done? Anything proactive?
4:23 PM
Are you playing the blame game?
Gee if the City was in debt whose fault was that? Mr. Lichlighter and Mr. Wobbels for misleading the BOA and Mayors they served about the true condition of the citys money.
Try to stay on task here, but the money for the improved working conditions for the people who provide our services was funded with a increase in the lenght of the Sunset term on a Capital Improvments Sales tax. Your property tax was not increased and that money can only be spent on Capital Improvements, not used by the General Fund, where all the red ink was.
Don't forget under Fagan, Westfield paid for a study on what was the best thing to do with the Mall. Westfield was working with the City under Fagan Don't forget that after Fagan and under our current Mayor, Westfield has not doneone thing the study said to do and has refused to see the Mayor or for that fact anyone from his administration.
Wrong ... Myers and Dailey from Crestwood (Mayor did not attend due to illness) met with Westfield people in Las Vegas. Also, during THIS administration, Westfield mentioned they were considering a new theatre and food court.
During the Mayor debate, Tom Fagan told the audience he would be glad to travel to California and meet with Westfield. Had he wanted to meet with Westfield, it could have been done locally. But, hey, a free trip to California.
Ya gotcher facts a little muddied.
The Dillard's store will close by Oct. 20th. True enough!
Tom Ford
I happen to know for a fact that Frank Myers's visit to Vegas last year drew NO NEW BUSINESSES. They met with Westfield. That was about it. If you don't believe it, ASK HIM.
What was the 2 mill spent for?
$1 mil : Mr. Lichlighter and Mr. Wobbels for misleading the BOA and Mayors they served about the true condition of the citys money.
Additional $1 mil : new roof for city hall + design fees (only $ lost there were the design fees)
And of course partial line of credit to keep the level of services the same.
Do you really think that one meeting in Las Vegas is going to close a deal? NO retailer or developer is going to sign a lease or build a store unless the numbers add up. It is that simple. Further, they are not going to come into a city unless the city makes it easy to do business and offers development tools. This is what TOM FORD and his ilk--I know how you all love that word--DO NOT UNDERSTAND. Do you really think that the mayor shaking his fist in the face of Westfield is going to make a difference. That whole plaza needs to be razed--bottom line. Build some condos and call it a day and then raise the taxes in Crestwood. That's reality. Unless someone like Joe Edwards from U City or the folks in Maplewood come to Crestwood, there is not much Frank Meyers, the Mayor, the Development director or the Board of Alderman can do. Furthermore, if I had money to open a retail development, I would seriously question selecting Crestwood based on all of the many crackpots who raise a ruckus at all the BOA meetings. I would take one look at those hoosiers and go elsewhere.
It looks like the developers have been to BOA meetings and have seen our crackpots and hoosiers raising a ruckus and are going else where.
"It looks like the developers have been to BOA meetings and have seen our crackpots and hoosiers raising a ruckus and are going else where."
Yes, apparently as poster 11:12 AM, August 14, 2007 said, they are going up North. Why up North and not down South? Can somebody tell me why?
Why don't you ask them?
I love it! "Crackpots and hoosiers!"
I have seen "Residents" get up and speak at meetings, but they were residents exercising their right to speak to their elected officials!
I have seen both sides of the political spectrum from Liberals to conservitives discuss their ideas at meetings, but never have I seen a "crackpot or a hoosier" at the podium!
I guess if the speaker is mouthing platudes that you approve of it's ok, if not they are "crackpots, and hoosiers" Right?
Tom Ford
8:25 PM blogger: Well I can't speak for my "ilk" but as for me, I understand it far better than you think I do. In fact I am betting that you and your "ilk" wish I didn't!
So far I have seen some "wonderful uses of these so called "development tool's," such as a private pool moved on the public dole, and 2 M to a developer who had been collecting rent all along.
By the way, othe communities who have stood their ground have had just as many projects completed as we have (but without the "tools!)
We have an aging mall who's time has been up for quite a while now, and we must look into new uses for that property that will bring back the revenue.
Maplewood, Kirkwood, and others have seen a great revitalization reciently, and so can we, we just have to pick and choose wisely!
Tom Ford
Who is we? What are you going to pick and choose wisely? Are you going to pick and choose wisely from all the developers who are banging down the dooor to build stores in Crestwood? Are you going to pick and choose among the retailers who would like to rent space at Crestwood Plaza? One of the main problems Crestwood has as far as retail goes is an aging population and lower household income than our neighboring communties such as Kirkwood and Webster. So why dont you write one of your little essays (without using the term conservative or liberal) on your vision for the types of development that can be attracted by you and your ilk --or your friends in City Hall--to Crestwood.....would love to see your wisdom and insight.
"Maplewood, Kirkwood, and others have seen a great revitalization reciently, and so can we, we just have to pick and choose wisely!"
Maplewood has more TIF's on the book per capita than any onther City in St. Louis County. They have several TDD's too.
Kirkwood Commons (Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Target) is a TIF with a TDD.
While Kirkwood has a lot of development, I know they have budget concerns too.
Depending on the agreement, many TIFs freeze sales tax revenues from a development at current levels. If a development is revitalized, any increased revenue goes to pay off the TIF. Consequently, the municipality never sees the increased revenue until the TIF is paid off.
TDDs and CIDs are paid off with additional sales taxes added to the purchases within said development.
It IS possible to have a "development rich" city that has budget difficulties.
These tax assistance tools can help stimulate development, but they are not the only answer. Careful budgeting (in good times and bad), careful planning, and long term planning for development help as well.
Cities like Maplewood and Kirkwood are fortunate to have big box stores like Lowe's,Wal Marts, Targets, Home Depots, and they are positioned so that Crestwood would not be able to get them due to closeness of them in neighboring cities. But, we do have Sam's, Schnucks, S&S, a Mall, Kohl's,Gordman's, ACE, Best Buy, Aldi's, Sears, Macy's, Starbucks, Barnes & Noble, Cadillac Dealer, Office Max, Walgreens, Famous Shoes, Gundaker, etc etc. Not all that bad for a 4 sq. mile city. Sure the mall is not our big producer now, so we need to put together some good ideas as does Ms Brown. And we need to promote what we have and then shop there. As for Dillard's, they are hurting at all their locations; actually so is Macy's. Wish Penney's would take the Dillard's location and wish we could get a TJ Maxx and a free standing Bread Company, as Dillards Tea Room will now be gone. As for Pier I, they have closed several stores. Think they have a lot of competition. Wouldn't it be nice to get a Crate and Barrel there? Butler Chevrolet will be missed, but they need more room and the head office wants them to go where there is more room. We need to get an appealing variety of stores that don't compete and don't sell the same old things. What all is going in at the new Starbuck's loc? How can we keep Applebee's. Someone said we have a lot of old people here. So does Webster and Kirkwood and Oakland. And, by the way my neighbors are older and they are wonderful and they shop here. My younger neighbors like the older neighbors and it is a wonderful mix. A dairy Queen would be wonderful, but on the main drag. All is not lost, but the ones who insist on gloom and doom could use an attitude adjustment, we need all the help and ideas we can get. What is wrong with appreciating what we have, accepting our odds, and realizing our possibilities?
Excellent post 4:51! You hit the nail on the head. Appreciate what we have (and shop at those stores we have) and work toward possibilities.
9:43 AM blogger: No, you woulden't like to see one of my essays any more than most people on this blog want to read your negitive comment's!
That said, I shall not!
Tom Ford
9:43 blogger
Why don't you take your donkey cart to a community that can appreciate you.
If Cinderella came to town and opened a glass slipper store you would start a campaign for combat boots. Really, sir, I don't think this city is for you.
Poster August 16th @ 2:11 "If a development is revitalized, any increased revenue goes to pay off the TIF. Consequently, the municipality never sees the increased revenue until the TIF is paid off.".......
SORRY, THIS IS NOT CORRECT. THE MUNICIPALITY RECIEVES 50% OF THE INCREASED SALES TAX REVENUE FROM THE REVITALIZED REDEVELOPEMENT AND ALL OF THE INCREASE IN PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX REVENUE....
I don't think so. Where did you get the 50% figure?
from http://ls.wustl.edu/statelocal/tifstat.htm
"As development occurs in the area, tax revenue increases, and the excess above pre-redevelopment property tax revenue in the area is used to pay off the loans or bonds and to finance further redevelopment activities. That excess is the “tax increment” in tax increment financing."
I don't see anything about 50%, do you?
from wikipedia.com
"TIF is a tool to use future gains in taxes to finance the current improvements that will create those gains. When a public project such as a road, school, or hazardous waste cleanup is carried out, there is an increase in the value of surrounding real estate, and often new investment (new or rehabilitated buildings, for example). This increased site value and investment creates more taxable property, which increases tax revenues. The increased tax revenues are the "tax increment." Tax Increment Financing dedicates that increased revenue to finance debt issued to pay for the project. TIF is designed to channel funding toward improvements in distressed or underdeveloped areas where development would not otherwise occur. TIF creates funding for public projects that may otherwise be unaffordable to localities."
Again, where is the 50%?
You are using "wikipedia" as a source to prove something? Very weak.
Says you. You still didn't answer the 50% question.
Can't defend your 50% figure, eh?
For your reading pleasure, here are some more sources:
http://www.bluespringsgov.com/ecodevo/LearnAboutTIF1.pdf
"I. Introduction
Tax Increment Financing (“TIF”) is an economic development tool established by state statutes (the “TIF Act”; Sections 99.800 to 99.865 R.S.Mo.) which provides a means for local governments to help finance the redevelopment of areas that are blighted, substandard, or economically underutilized in their community and that would not otherwise be developed without public assistance. TIF establishes a mechanism to allow a city to provide this public assistance by capturing the future increases in real property taxes and economic activity taxes (e.g., local sales taxes, utility taxes, and earnings taxes) associated with the redevelopment of the property in these substandard areas and using these funds to pay for certain costs associated with the redevelopment."
http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/publications/lucetif.htm
"Executive Summary
Tax increment finance (TIF) is a popular and potentially powerful tool for places that need economic development the most yet have the least to spend. By allowing jurisdictions to use portions of their tax base to secure public-sector bonds, the mechanism allows fiscally strapped localities to finance site improvements or other investments so as to "level the playing field" in economic development."
I can provide more if so desired.
I still do not see the 50% figure
9:21AM mentioned. Perhaps he was the one who opined wikipedia was a weak source.
http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/publications/lucetif.htm
This is a very good article by the way. While it is a several years old (2003), it points out some of the problems with Missouri's TIF law.
9:21-
By the way, I'm not saying that the 50% figure is incorrect. I just haven't seen it yet. Can you provide any sources?
Poster 1:59.....
Per Chapter 99.845 (3) of the Revised Missouri State Statutes (Chapter 99 is the TIF Act.)
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C000-099/0990000845.HTM
3. In addition to the payments in lieu of taxes described in subdivision (2) of subsection 1 of this section, for redevelopment plans and projects adopted or redevelopment projects approved by ordinance after August 31, 1991, fifty percent of the total additional revenue from taxes, penalties and interest which are imposed by the municipality or other taxing districts, and which are generated by economic activities within the area of the redevelopment project over the amount of such taxes generated by economic activities within the area of the redevelopment project in the calendar year prior to the adoption of the redevelopment project by ordinance, while tax increment financing remains in effect, but excluding personal property taxes, taxes imposed on sales or charges for sleeping rooms paid by transient guests of hotels and motels, taxes levied pursuant to section 70.500, RSMo, taxes levied for the purpose of public transportation pursuant to section 94.660, RSMo, licenses, fees or special assessments other than payments in lieu of taxes and penalties and interest thereon, or any sales tax imposed by a county with a charter form of government and with more than six hundred thousand but fewer than seven hundred thousand inhabitants, for the purpose of sports stadium improvement, shall be allocated to, and paid by the local political subdivision collecting officer to the treasurer or other designated financial officer of the municipality, who shall deposit such funds in a separate segregated account within the special allocation fund.
1:59 PM
Thank you. I stand corrected. RSMO states it.
So, Crestwood is getting 50% of the increased revenue from Kohl's, and 50% of the increased revenue from the Grewe property (Shop n Save, Walgreen's)?
2:50 PM
Thank you. I stand corrected. RSMO states it.
So, Crestwood is getting 50% of the increased revenue from Kohl's, and 50% of the increased revenue from the Grewe property (Shop n Save, Walgreen's)?
Ahhh, don't worry. It seems you have to be pro-developer and willing to give everything or else you're considered anti-business in this town.
Does the 50% apply to Crestwood developments? I would have to see each TIF agreement to be sure.
Does the 50% apply to Crestwood developments? I would have to see each TIF agreement to be sure.
The Redevelopment Agreements are on file with the City Clerk... easy enough to find out.
Wish there was a way that we could have a learning session at city hall where we learn about TIF's, TDD's, CDD's. The Whole Story unraveled.
Also a session on interpreting the budget.
Excellent idea! That would be nice.
8:06 PM blogger: Why not? All we have to do is ask them (BOA) and I am sure they will do it.
Tom Ford
If someone got a TIF, a TDD, a CID, and was watching a football game where a player scored a TD, how would that affect the whole process?
How many football players are in Crestwood?
I dont know, why dont you ask Alderman Foote, he supports eminent domain?
Has imminent domain ever been used in this city? If yes, on what and what has been the result? I know about the TIF's, just not Imminent D. part. Thanks.
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