BOA meeting agenda for 8/28/07.
Please click on the header to be directed to the agenda. Note that public comments will be heard reference the RDP, and Crestwood Plaza.
Tom Ford
NO. 377
Tom Ford
NO. 377
posted by Crestwood Independent at 08:10
24 Comments:
Tom, I'd like your thoughts on some interesting changes that I noticed taking place.
When he ran for the Mayor's office Roy said "there would be eminent domain in Crestwood over his dead body", and "if you someone wants a property they should pay for it, not take it from them with eminent domain." I believe you have said as much yourself on your blog. Now read this weeks Journal, note the quotes from two of the Mayors supporters and members of the CCFR. Seems they no longer have a over my dead body view of eminent domain that the Mayor and you have.
My questions are this, did the Mayor tell us the truth when he said over his dead body or did he just say anything that would get us to vote for him? Or did he even have a clue what he was talking about? Does he still hold his election statements as the truth or was that just election talk? If a developer requests E.D., TIF, CID, TDD to do the Mall will the Mayor and you support such action?
Thanks for your time and answer.
11:49 AM blogger: For most of the questions you will have to ask him directly!
I will answer the question on "eminent domain." I will never, repeat, never support anyone who advocates "eminent domain."
In fact I will work against anyone, both here on the blog, as well as at the poll's who supports it!
I think by now you know that I oppose any sort of CID, TDD, TIF to do anything here in Crestwood! I know you all think I am not with the times, but I don't think we need them!
Our next big opportunity will be on Sept. 13, 2007 at 9:00 AM when the TDD board will vote on whether to pay the $295,000.00 to THF to fund a "private Pool!"
Trust me, several of us us will be there, voicing our objection to this travisty, and I hope to see the news media as well!
I will tell you now that anyone on that board who votes to give the funds to THF will be on the same list as the "eminent domain" folks. And that means that I will do my very best to insure they are never again elected to public office in Crestwood!
Tom Ford
well I guess Roy will not get your vote next April.
Tom,
You are one voice out there and you can not tell us that you would never use redevelopment tools if it meant putting a mega money generating business in Crestwood. Do you think for one minute that our Board is going to pass on the use of E.D. tools and risk losing everything this city stands for? I don't think that will ever happen. Besides, if we don't get the money from retail sales tax where else is it going to come from but increased property taxes paid by you and me? Or maybe it will just fall from the SKY. Get real. Tell us where the money is going to come from.
I was informed of this blog last night at the meeting. Interesting reading here. I can say that everyone was in agreement that the decision to look for a developer at the mall is a good one. No one was opposed to it. There was no talk about this TIF stuff. At this point, whatever it takes. We're in a state of emergency. If anybody is bothered about giving out TIF to a developer, no one said it last night.
Well isn't that just great, no one said a thing about TIF at the BOA meeting last night. Look at the front page of this weeks Journal, seems the TIF is mentioned there. Read this week issue of the Call (gasp). Westfield says they will fight condemnation, that could mean years in court to settle while the City drys up for a lack of sales tax dollars from the mall. C/A Myers is quoted as saying the City will have to pay from $10m to $20m for the redevelopment project which City can recover from a TIF!!!
Be very interesting to see if the Mayor veto's anything that uses economic development tools to lure a developer to Crestwood. Since he is a man of his word and said he was against TIF, etc, I am sure he will veto. After all he does have a plan to bring Crestwood back.
FROM: The SunCrest Call, July 28, 2004 "Mayoral candidates discuss
finances, board unity at forum", (July 20, 2004 Call Newspapers
Candidate Forum).
Robinson said, "Well, first of all, I was on the board in '88 to '92 when we were taking the drive-in theater and when I began, I was the only one fighting the eminent domain and taking businesses and giving developers the money that they wanted. I stood by myself and by the time
that we got completed at that time, I had two or three other aldermen coming my way.
"I do not believe in TIFs because it's not necessary. I do not believe in eminent domain because that's taking property that does not belong to you. This is America. We don't steal property from people ... You go in and you buy the property and that's the way I feel about it. I would
never — I would never go along with taking property. If you want the property, you buy it. It's only a means of giving developers the money that they know you will give them,'' he added.
Hmmmmm - wonder what will happen??
Don't know about eminent domain. But did anyone else see Frank Meyers on Fox 2 this morning? He said the city is open to TIF. Go to their Web site and watch it for yourself! Tom, could you please post that link for us? Thank you, my good man. Or just read today's CALL or the Journals. It's all in there too!
Copy and paste this into your browser:
http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=683C258870A31ED18C67DF6B00E08836?contentId=4205165&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1
If the above link does not work, go to www.myfoxstl.com and type in Crestwood in the search box.
It is titled under "Is There Any Hope for Crestwood Mall?"
Can Roy say "flip flop?
2:37 Blogger
Imminent Domain and TIF's, TDD's and CID's have not always produced the desired effect in communities. Thus, it is not in the least unusual to be wary. There are many horror stories, i.e. Sunset Hills, and others nationwide. In many cases, they HAVE worked out. There was a time when it was the way to go. But then it started to be abused, actually during the time when our Mayor was running for office. In fact it was bad enough for communities to swear completely off it. (see St. Charles County areas) Whatever happened to developers who developerd their own property? They collect the rent and have tax writeoffs and own the property. Yes sir, Mr. Blogger, the TIF scene began to be get cloudy and gray. Full of pitfalls and politics.
I imagine all of us have at some time rearranged some of our thinking about these development tools as they take on good or unfavorable aspects. The blogger who quoted Roy Robinson from the CALL, 2004, I presume, has never had a change of stance, or faced the need to do so. Or, in protective mode, did not want their constituants or city to be shortchanged. What really is not necessary right now is a resident/blogger, who insists on being 'small' wanting to throw pepper on a city official whose original theory has not even been tested and ... when an opportunity has not yet been presented and offered him (and others) the opportunity to change their mind.
Mr. Blogger, you are and continue to be an ever present fault finder. At every opportunity a negative wishing only to cooperate and participate when your rules and cronies are supreme. This Plaza redevelopment situation is in the nubial stage - give it some time. Your politics are again leading your charge, not your concern for our city. How 'bout if you at least allow people their opinion and a chance to discern what could work and what cannot. What is unfair about that? What do you gain with your judgemental messages?
One of the best city meetings I ever attended was Mayor Roy's Town Hall Meeting at Whitecliff. There was such a strong since of community that I realized, that night, exactly why I have made Crestwood my home.
Last night's meeting was a total exercize in democracy. A good start! The city is facing the music. The Mayor and the board are open and listening and somewhere out there is an answer. To my knowledge there is no known blueprint for redeveloping a Mall, no antedote, no prescription. We are into unchartered waters right now. Apparently you are more eager to demean the Mayor than help find the answer.
Why???
I am betting on another lawsuit like the Drive-in 66!
Maybe Mayor Roy Robinson was a Crestwood Swim Club member with his wife's cousins membership.
How was his son able to be a life guard in an exclusive club?
Who has an old Crestwood Swim Club membership list and photos?
Who has an old Rosebrook Real Estate Stockholder list and photos?
Was Sansone's a member?
Tom, can you post the photos of the political pool parties!
5:17 you are a hoot!! At least you didn't say Roy's quotes weren't correct, I'll give you that much.
You realize that the guy Roy was running against for Mayor took the opposite position on TIF, Eminent Domain, etc. and do you recall how he was roundly booed and laughed at for doing so?
All I am asking for is the man who won that race to stand on the principles he said he had when he asked for our votes.
Sure he can change his mind, but wouldn't a real honest man come out and explain why he had done so instead of hiding behind his supporters anonymous posts to explain for him?
Mrs. Ford, while shopping at Macys today was told that a "big wig" from New York will be coming to Crestwood next week to look at the mall!
It appears that they have heard about the "blighting" and possible "eminent domain" brainstorm of the BOA and PGAV! This should be very interesting to say the least.
Question, why would we hire PGAV unless it's to do a blighting study, and eminent domain (thats their specialty?) Also why would we hire a firm that recieved a negitive report from the Missouri Supreme Court on a project like this one?
Were told that "they know the area!" well so do I, and so do a lot of other folks in that business!
I don't know about you, but come April, I will be shopping for some "new blood" in the leadership rolls unless things change, and now!
In my humble opinion we can stand by for one of the largest, and most costly law suits in the history of Crestwood if this idea goes through!
To our leaders: do you really believe that Westfield is going to stand by while you blight the area? And what happens when you try to take their property?
Tom Ford
11:38 PM blogger: Sure, I can post the photo's, and I will! However I don't have any photo's like that, so, if you will E-mail them to me, and it shall be done!
Tom Ford
Oh Boy, Now Mrs. Ford is investigating the pulse of Macy's by interviewing employees at Macy's. She is probably wired and has a miniature camera in the seam of her purse too.
Tom,
Go to a BOA meeting and report first hand on the reasons why we are using PGAV by asking the question during public comment. Then please use only the factual information and stop speculating on what will and will not happen. You with your big stick, stir up more STUFF than anyone I know. Are you sure you aren't a cub reporter for the local newspaper?
If your true goal in life is to disrupt and derail any progress in this city then you are achieving your goal. And please, tell us what your idea is for rejuvinating the mall area and how you would accomplish it.
Thank You
The 5:17 blogger is not necessarily a Roy supporter per se. Okay. But ROY is a darn sight better than a Mayor who resigned to spend more time with his family or a Mayor who talked everything to death while letting the CA run the city, and run it into the ground, and create havoc and division. Don't blame
Roy Robinson for my post. I think for myself thank you.
Also, the former mayor was booed for things other than TIF, I.D. and you know full well what he and his cronies were all about. Spend it till it's gone!!! Let The Donald run things!!! FA=GED=ABOUT-IT. Politics above all.
Think it might be time for you to realize the city mall ain't what it used to be and one man did not cause it. The context of not being for I.D. or TIF's can change according to the benefits to the majority. I pity the person who is so staid in their opinion that they are inflexible. Lot's of your neighbors feel the same way as the Mayor, lots. Just because you may not does not give you the right to imagine you are right and he is wrong. Maybe you are wrong. Consider that. At any rate, what is important is finding a good way to salvage our mall. All you do is search for any and all opportunities to critize Roy which does nothing more than destroy your credibility.
give yourself and the city a break. Stand for something other than that rotted out soapbox you spend so much time on. Join the rest of the town in their real concerns, which don't seem to be the same as yours.
10:18 AM blogger: It's been done, had you been there you would have heard it first hand!
However since you don't appear to have gone, here's the text version.
"At some point in the near future, the Crestwood Point TDD board will hold a meeting to vote on issuing bonds for the Kohl’s project. One of the transactions to be reimbursed by the bond issue is THF’s acquisition of property from Rosebrook Real Estate. I have read all the material related to this transaction and am still confused as to why the city’s representatives on the TDD board and the City Attorney would agree that THF should be reimbursed $295K for a piece of property THF clearly never purchased.
I already discussed with one of the TDD board members his reason for approving this amount, and could not have been more dissatisfied, so I am asking you Mr. Mayor, as well as the City Administrator and the City Attorney: what am I missing? Why would the city agree to be a willing participant in a deal that gives THF license to steal $295K from the TDD? Is Crestwood in the business of offering public money as a consolation prize to developers and law firms who make mistakes?
The TDD board’s legal counsel, Robert Klahr, presented an opinion which is nothing more than an obfuscation of the facts. He supports his version of events with three affidavits so full of misrepresentations that they are meaningless. Additionally, he uses a non-contemporaneous memorandum written by a former mayor as proof that THF really did buy a piece of property that just happens to be completely missing from the original sales contract. Mr. Klahr would have us believe that we should determine what was bought NOT from the original sales contract, but from three affidavits and an internal memorandum. He would also have us believe that the two parties to the transaction, both of whom were no strangers to real estate deals, somehow completely overlooked the fact that the most important piece of property (the one for which THF could be reimbursed) was not in the sales contract. Furthermore, he would have us believe that the $850K price agreed upon reflected the seller’s inducement for the buyer to acquire not one, but two properties. If the seller was so intent on selling two properties, how could he have signed a contract that excluded one of those properties? To explain away the facts required an audacious and improbable story; Mr. Klahr provided it, and in a move that defies all logic, the TDD board bought it.
It is absolutely infuriating to stand here powerless to do anything except express my complete and utter disbelief that while “on your watch” Mayor Robinson, you are allowing a developer to steal $295K from the TDD, and in so doing extend the life of the 1% TDD sales tax at Kohl’s. The city, with a majority on the TDD board, would have been completely within its rights to exclude all of the $850K THF sought to be reimbursed for its property acquisition and yet here we are handing over public money to a private developer for property HE NEVER PURCHASED. Mayor Robinson, you owe the residents of this city and Kohl’s shoppers an answer, because Mr. Klahr’s fairytale of an explanation simply doesn’t cut it. What is the real reason the city agreed to negotiate with THF?"
Delivered by Martha Duchild on 8/21/07 at the BOA meeting. Also remarks reference PGAV and the Missouri Supreme court were made at the same meeting! Ask for the meeting transcript!
Any other comments?
Tom Ford
Martha for Mayor in '08!!!!
9:49 am. I guess I am crazy but if you think I am, too bad. I am still going to give you my answer regarding "where is the money going to come from if not retail sales tax" as stated by 9:49 AM.
We are spoiled citizens in this town and for decades,left tax revenues up to anyone who shops here, and we kept our low property tax rate.
It seems like we pay more for everything today than we did 30 years ago,and the cost of living is higher, but we dare not even suggest that we would be willing to pay higher property taxes to keep our city afloat.
It makes no sense to me to hear people screaming about our declining retail market and not be willing to pull money from our own pockets. But Oh My Gosh!!! Heaven help us if we pass a property tax increase to help ourselves even though ours is probably the lowest of all other municipalities in St. Louis County.
And please don't give me that bull about being taxed to death by Crestwood because we are taxed to death by other entities described on our property tax bills, not the city. Look at your property tax bill and you will see it for yourself.
How come we don't blink an eye when paying a higher price for a can of tuna in the store than we did 30 plus years ago, and we completely understand the reason for that, but we cannot comprehend why we should have to pay a higher property tax to our own city than we did years ago. And I don't call the mere pittance of a recent increase of 5 cents as anything other than a "stipand". I'm talking about a real comprehensive property tax. People in Crestwood would rather live on a pitifully low tax rate and let our sales tax do all the work. Sorry but to me we should have been gradually increasing our property tax to compete with the increasing costs of everything, but we had people on the board of aldermen who were too worried about not being re-elected that propose it to the people. And now we are really stuck. To me, it is just simple Arithmetic.
4:12 PM blogger: In a word, BINGO!!!
Tom Ford
So Tom are you now supporting a property tax increase to offset the decline in sales tax?
Does your support include a property tax increase to pay off a note or a bond in order to get the funds right now that are needed to continue our current level of service from the City?
Interesting, very interesting.
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