Great news story in the South County Times reference the Mall.
Please click on the header to be directed to a story in today's paper about the Mall. One thing disturbs me though, should we be telling prospective developers that the "farm keys" are on the table? I was taught that to negotiate you had to have a "hole card" to play, and here it Say's we may be offering TIF,TDD,CID,, and, dare I say it the dreaded eminent domain!
I thought we weren't going to use that in Crestwood, what happened?
Tom Ford
NO. 376
I thought we weren't going to use that in Crestwood, what happened?
Tom Ford
NO. 376
posted by Crestwood Independent at 16:17
61 Comments:
Tom:
Nobody is going to buy the mall and redevelop it without TIF, CID etc. Not going to happen, so might as well indicate that the City is willing to use these tools.
Eminent domain? Who can vote for that? Let's see, I believe the following elected officials stated during their campaigns they were against it.
Roy Robinson
Richard Bland
Chris Pickel
Greg Roby
Steve Neider
Jerry Miguel
Mac McGhee
So that in it's self will kill it if they meant what they said! So now what?
Tom Ford
And remember John Foote was against eminent domain at the Creston Center too! So I guess that means all of them will waffle.
10:19AM blogger: I forgot about that, thanks, and it will be interesting to watch the fur fly ovr a "353" and eminent domain.
Point being that one the nose of that camel is in the tent, where does it stop?
I noticed that several new for sale signs have poped up in Ward two in the last week, that's a sign of the times we live in.
Tom Ford
Let's see, in the right hand I have Mr. Ford saying don't tell them what you are going to give them because they might want it to build something nice here in Crestwood that would perhaps pay the bills. Then in the left hand I hear posters complaining about paying higher property taxes to replace what is being lost at the mall in retail taxes. Which is it Tom, If you are willing to pay another $600-800 dollars more a year in property taxes then I am sure our Aldermen would be happy to call the whole redevelopment idea off. But as an older Crestwood couple on a fixed income, I would much rather have someone else footing the bill. It is obvious that times change and with them opinions. I am sure our aldermen had every intention of not using Eminent Domain but the Mall was in better shape at that time and Dillards hadn't announced their closing. Personally, my husband and I think our current Aldermen are doing a good job and could use more constructive input instead of all the criticism they are receiving.
8:56 AM blogger: I fear you missed my point! I said we should not telegraph our intentions ahead of time, but wait for the developers to place their proposals on the table.
I am not against a nice development going into the Plaza area at all, I only oppose giving what we may not have to.
I am dead set against eminent doman in any form as I see it as a way to grab our property and give us little in return! When I say "our property," I mean your home or mine, and not the plaza. But once it starts, it gets easier, and easier for a City to do.
I too am a "senior Citizen" so I know of what you speak. Can, or do we want to pay $600-$800 more per year in taxes? Heck no we don't want to, but just that could happen if some get their way.
We need all the businesses we can get to survive in this economic market we all find ourselves in today. However, we can't expect to put all the burden on business, and keep them here!
I agree the curent batch of Aldermen are (for the most part) doing a good job, and I applaud them for it, however vigilance is needed on our part to make sure it stay's that way!
Tom Ford
Did you know that eminant domain was threatened to be used for the Crestwood Swim Club Property? The members were dead set against it, too, just like you. That's why they held out for enough money to be able to rebuild their property. Maybe if you had been around back then, you might have been on the pool's side in that case, too. Just another example of talking out of both sides of your mouth and coming in after the fact and spouting off about things you dont have all the facts on!
Well let's me get this straight. The citizens of Crestwood, which is a point of sale city, were more than happy to shop in Crestwood Plaza "where the big stores are" for over 40 plus years and said to the general public, "shop in Crestwood" so we can reap your dollars as well as ours.
But with the exception of a few more cents between then and now, many of the citizens of Crestwood say NO NEW TAXES, because we are being taxed to death by other entities and Not Crestwood. We like it better when others pay our way but we don't want to put our hands in our own pockets to keep our city going!!!!
Makes no sense to me. Hasn't the cost of living gone up in the past 50 years???? But our city fathers, in order to keep being re-elected, never wanted to put that vote to the people which to me made more sense.
For goodness sake, do you pay more for a jar of mustard now than you did 40 years ago?
I am more than willing to pay more in taxes to keep my city balanced. And now we are at the crossroads folks! And it might be too late for us to get through this crisis.
A tax increase and I mean a good one, should have been done years ago. Had we had that going for us, maybe we could now stay afloat and ride out this crisis. Wake up and smell the coffee! We can't expect to keep living on the coat tails of sales tax. Enough is enough.
I know all about the cost of everything including health insurance. As a senior citizen, it is very hard to live on a fixed income; but you either pay to keep our police and fire or you will loose them to other cities and once we loose our protection, our housing stock will also suffer and the home that you have lived in while paying very little to Crestwood to keep, won't be worth anything anymore.
9:49 AM blogger: Your right if it was for the "pool" or anything else I would have been against it!
Arn't you happy that a place for you to "spout off" has been created? At least I call it like I see it, and do not hide in the shadows "my friend!"
Tom Ford
10:04 AM, August 25, 2007 says: "The citizens of Crestwood, which is a point of sale city, were more than happy to shop in Crestwood Plaza "where the big stores are" for over 40 plus years"
And I ask what did supporting the Mall for 40 years get us? Westfield "let it go". These developments are lucky if they last 20 years without need for significant reinvestment.
Before we give any more money away it needs to have some strings attached that protect the long term quality of the property.
The City has/does generate a lot of money off it's high sales tax rate.
And conservative spending of it could easily have saved us from tax increases.
10:38 am - So let's put all the blame on Crestwood Plaza. For all those years we were booming off of it, don't mean a thing, does it?
If what you say is true, I don't see West County or South County or any other of their properties going down hill. Get real!
People like you are stuck in a time warp and refuse to see the truth which is we need to help ourselves. What you reap you will also sow.
The cost of living has been going through the roof for over 40 years, and you are think we should be able to support ourselves forever with a pitifully low tax rate 40 years later? Give me a break!
It's because of people like you that we are in this fix. all these years, mayors and board members cared more about themselves and their re-election campaigns than ever mention the "T" word.
Don't blame it on this plaza, while other plazas are thriving. Many people shop other places because of our sales tax. But of course, I am sure you don't think so.
Do we have a POOL member here who can connect me with a board member? I have an item for your meet's you can use. No strings attached, it works, and the price is right!
It's a U.S. Government Heuer stop watch, so if you can use it, well.....
Tom Ford
314-341-2307
"A tax increase, and I mean a good one, should have been done years ago."
I respectfully disagree. An examination of the city's expenses vs. income for almost the past 10 years shows that, with the exception of two years, the city was continually spending more than it was taking in. Proper attention to spending and more rigorous budgeting, not taxes, would have put the city in a much better financial position. Overspending is the major cause of our financial problems, not a lack of tax increases.
Before taxes are raised, the city must first demonstrate that it is not overspending the tax dollars it has already collected.
Martha Duchild
1:07 PM Martha, you have made a good point but how long will it take for city officials to demonstrate they are being frugal. We are running out of time. And how much longer will it take to regain trust?
In the meantime, trust in our city elected officials has wavered. Maybe gregarious past spending is water under the bridge, but this crisis still goes on without resolution.
The City of Crestwood should have gradually, in 40 years at least, been increasing taxes to co-exist with the cost of living. Instead our past elected officials couldn't see beyond their election campaigns to think about the city long term. They did almost nothing to prepare us for this day.
If you were to go back many years when we were swimming in sales tax revenue, you will see that overspending went on without due diligence, although maybe not to the extent we have had in the past few years. But nobody seemed concerned.
A good friend of mine was in line for City Treasurer back in the early 70's. He looked at the city's financial records and couldn't believe the money we had. So what did the city do: not only did bad streets get redone which is good, as well as sidewalk replacement, but many were redone when they were still in good condition. Why? I can tell you why! Board of Aldermen members and Mayors got brownie points for redoing the streets and sidewalks of their supporters whether they needed it or not. Money wasted.
Also, I can still here Carl Buettner as he slammed his fist on the dias, regarding a new community center saying "pay as you go". People shot down the notion of a bond issue at that time - Oh No - we were "rich" Mayor Joe Vitalis was hated by many for many things, but he was smarter than most and he was right, those bonds would have been paid off long ago and we would still have saved lots of money for a rainy day.
Instead, we did "pay as we built" for every brick and every piece of mortar, every single, solatary piece of fencing for a new ballfield, etc. and etc. Look in the minutes and see how many thousands of dollars were paid at each and every board meeting. Yes sir, cold, hard cash.
I appreciate your thoughts and your care for Crestwood, Martha. But I just can't see how we have anymore time to turn things around.
This city is full of self-absorbed people who run for office for no other reason but to have people stroke their egos which gives them a feeling of power. For many on the dias, it has been all about politics and who is doing what to whom. You see it on this blog every day.
I hope that the younger generation sees through it all, but until now all I have seen and heard from many young ones on the dias is ill will toward anybody who doesn't see things their way. You think that those people really care about you and I?
...and so it goes!
What issue did Alderman Bland beat Mr. Wallach?
eminent domain?
8/28/06 Missouri Members of General Assembly added "condemnation" to the Transportation Development District bill
Does condemnation mean the same as eminent domain?
What is the difference in the bonds?
10:31 PM blogger: Why yes he (Mr. Bland) did put out a flyer that said Mr. Wallach was in favor of eminent domain, didn't he.
Now that flyer went out the day before the election so that Mr. Wallach had no chance to refute the statement which was false!
I think Mr. Bland knew full well from the campaign litrature put out by Mr. Wallach that he was not in favor of eminent domain, but he did it anyway!
Now Mr. Bland, as the saying goes, "what goes around, comes around!" We will all be watching you very closely on this issue, believe me!
Tom Ford
To August 25, 2007 9:49 a.m. blogger on "Did you know that eminant domain was threatened to be used for the Crestwood Swim Club Property?"
Please read the 1998 Redevelopment Plan for Kohl's.
You guessed it!
Crestwood Swim old pool, tennis courts, 50 parking spaces titled under Rosebrook Real Estate Company was in the original TIF, TDD, and CID plan.
The boundary was set for the shell game or ponzi game with sales tax dollars or arbitrage or junk bonds!
What was the return on investment when the Crestwood Swim Club/Rosebrook Real Estate sold their 50 parking spaces for $1.00?
free parking spaces for eternity?
free sewer lines, free water lines, free electric lines, free telephone lines, free gas for barbequing with a TDD and a CID?
By the way, why is our U.S. American Flag hanging on the wall to one of the bathrooms in the Crestwood Swim Club?
Is this telling us how they feel about free sales tax dollars?
Why not buy a flag pole to see our U.S. Flag instead of a blue and white umbrella?
How many dual citizens and foreign persons are members of Crestwood Swim Club/Rosebrook Real Estate?
All of the members are illegal aliens. It is a requirement. They are illegal aliens from other countries and other planets.
When cheese gets its picture taken what does IT SAY?
Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?
1:20 PM blogger: Please don't let the children play on the computer
I think I'm goign to move. While Rome Burns........ all we can do is talk about Swim Clubs etc.
I think that this City will implode when it is time to deal with the Mall.............
5:01 I agree with you. I am so tired of the bickering about the swim club. We got more important things to worry about. The truth always seems to surface about issues if given enough time. Like grease, the bad stuff rises to the top.
It doesn't seem to matter what comments and headings are on this blog, the stupid swim club remarks always manage to crop up and consume much talk.
I personally don't care what they do anymore. The more you mention how intimidated they make you, the more credence you give them.
That whole deal will all blow up some day. So let them eat, drink and be merry.
All the Crestwood Swim Club/Rosebrook Real Estate members have to do is open the pool for all citizens of Crestwood.
Donate your Rosebrook Real Estate Stock to the City of Crestwood for a $1.00!
Meacham Park is part of Kirkwood!
Pay for parking, sewers, water, electric, and telephone like all of the other residential zoned citizens do in Crestwood!
Can they drink on a Missouri Liquor License with a PO Box address?
U.S. Department of State and Homeland Security does not allow Post Office Boxes!
When will the Crestwood Swim Club hand the U.S. Flag appropriately on a flag pole instead of on the wall to a bathroom?
5:01 PM
Good post. I don't completely agree with you, but you do have a point.
Yes, very good. Meacham Park is part of Kirkwood.
St. Louis is in Missouri.
Missouri is in the United States.
The United States is in North America.
North America is in the Western Hemisphere.
Study and get some rest. There will be a quiz tomorrow.
Ordinance 3662 4/24/2001
Why was the Crestwood Swim Club/Rosebrook Real Estate Blighted within the meaning of Chapter 353?
Was this to help them reduce their capital gain taxes?
Now, please tell me why the deed was not transferred into THF Realty since 2001?
Was this intentional to get a free sewer, free parking, and free utilites?
How long has THF Realty been in real estate to forget to transfer a deed?
The $295,000 should go to the City of Crestwood to improve the city's parking lot and sewers!
Martha,
The City of Crestwood was spending more on lawyers and consultants like Armstrong Teasdale, Gilmore Bell, PGAV, and other music men that say the same thing every year to obtain a check from the General Fund!
It is great deal!
Poster11:07, you saw in the last election for Mayor what happened when Fagan supported a bond issue in order to pay off debt, he was defeated. So are you now are calling for the winner of that race to announce the fact that the city needs tax increase before his next election?
You'r asking an awful lot of him to do what is right. After all he fullfilled his promises to the voters when he got rid of Greer and Madrid, stopped the Charter changes from being voted on within the legal timeline, and pushed through the Civil Service rules changes that have save how much of our tax dollars?
It will never happen, current Mayor doesnt have the man parts to do what would be the right thing for the city if it means he might not get elected.
Eminent Domain is only for Ward 1 and Ward 2.
Ask former Alderman Breeding his opinion on where to live in Crestwood!
How much will this lawsuit cost the City of Crestwood for eminent domaining the Crestwood Mall?
Ask PGAV? PGAV was involved in
66 Drive, Sunset Hills, and Wood River?
Who is benefiting from all of these lawsuits? Armstrong Teasdale - TDD, TIF, CID lawyers? Gilmore Bell - Bond Lawyers? Lewis and Rice - Attorney Robert Golterman's firm? Husch and Eppendberger - Attorney Gary Vincent's firm?
What are the requirements to be a consultant or a lawyer for the City of Crestwood and copy and paste from the year before the same speech? Just change the dates?
Hasn't PGAV been saying the same thing for 11 years? How much has PGAV been paid by the City of Crestwood? How much did PGAV make on the 7 year deal with Kohl's? $100,000?
Keep shopping at Kohl's to pay off these TDD's and CID's!
12:52 Thanks so much for speaking regarding my blog comment. I guess you and only one other person has had the good sense to at least address the "T" is for taxes word, even if you don't totally agree.
And also I commend you for stating that, yes Fagan was defeated. But he was defeated because he had Don Greer running the show in two very important seats in this city. He would have had my vote and many others, but that's why he lost. He gave Don Greer too much power.
You don't think that initially, it was Fagan's idea to build a brand new facility when most cities that fall on hard times scale back? The city's coffers were dwindling, Greer knew it as well as other people, but he didn't care. He wanted that feeling of power more and Tom was going give it to him.
But 40 years ago, a bond issue would have been great. Plus we would have had a community center, a skating rink and so much more. Look at the plans, if they are still around and you could see for yourself.
When Tom Fagan said he wanted Don Greer to wear two hats, and glorified him at his community meeting/debate, I knew that he, too, sucombed to the Don Greer spell.
When Tom was defeated, we were already in the "out house" financially. If we floated a bond issue where were the funds going to come from to maintain it? And considering the shape we are in now, I am happy we didn't do it.
Roy has done lots of good things as you so stated in your comments, and if he and his board won't increase taxes, I hope this city can still survive. However, if Roy and the board are not going to put it to the people because of lost votes, than they are being self-absorbed and are out for nothing more than their political seats. Then, my friend, we may very well loose this city, because nobody cared enough to put the city first and the city will suffer. With all my heart and soul, I hope I am wrong.
Thanks for your input. You sound like a very methodical and thought-provoking person.
3:54 PM
I would rather not ask former Alderman Breeding anything.
4:12PM
Reread 12:52PM's comments. I don't think he was saying "Roy has done lots of good things as you so stated in your comments." Correct me if I'm wrong, but read 12:52PM's comments again.
8:21 PM Thanks for your comments. I did re-read the comments of the blogger at 12:52 PM that I addressed earlier, as you so requested. Well....OK! I probably didn't notice his sarcasm.
So, I would respectfully ask the blogger at 12:52 PM by copy of this comment, to spit out what he really wants to say. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Also....
I, for one, do thank this mayor for having enough male parts to get rid of of Mr. Greer and Ms. Madrid. Sorry if you disagree. Maybe the 12:52 PM blogger's remarks about this mayor are tongue-in-cheek, so what? He/she got it off their chest. Good! However, be that as it may, I am not so concerned about branding this mayor or putting his good points or bad points in chronological order.
What I am saying is simple. Blogger at 12:52 listen up. The cost of living is much more than 40 years ago when a bond issue failed. Therefore, to balance the boat to stay afloat (which rhymes) the taxes should also be adjusted now, before we capsize. No one wants to hear it, board members and mayors may not want to tell it or even mention the tax word, but they are not being realistic.
We in Crestwood are way off mainstream America by not raising taxes. (Let me explain before you "wig" out) What was your grocery bill 40 years ago, what was school tuition 40 years ago, what was the cost of health insurance 40 years ago. So what city can survive on a pitiful tax rate?
Instead of our city officials boasting all these years about our low taxes, they were digging Crestwood into a big hole when sales tax starting dwindling. Sales tax wasn't going to sustain us forever. Remember what happened when the stock market crashed putting eggs all in one basket?
Instead of trying to be big heros they should have been slowly passing on sensible increases as time went on. I would have been more than happy to pay more to keep Crestwood balanced and solvent.
Why would Tom Fagan or anyone else in charge 4 or 5 years ago even consider trying to pass a bond issue for a new police facility, when we wouldn't have the money to pay the police or firefighters (our safety and welfare people)a decent wage?????
So blogger at 12:52, what I am trying to say is....unless you can maintain a new facility and give the employees decent Cost of Living raises and good salaries - employees go somewhere else to work. Mr. Greer and Tom Fagan thought it was great to have a brand new police facility and all the other things that were attached to that issue. And they as well as others are angry because the people said NO to it. BUT, for them to affirm that the people said NO and leave it at that, they want to blame loosing the election on this mayor.
Four years ago or whenever this started, the timing was wrong for a bond issue. That's all I have to say and I rest my case and I thank you so very much for your comments.
I want to thank all on this site who made a concerted effort to state ideas, facts and just plain communicate on our city's current problems. How refreshing not to read nonsense, which some blogger seems to have an affinity for. This kind of input obviously is his best shot, displays his character traits and fills a void in his life.
I will mention some of my opinions here to join in, in response to other bloggers and the current chain of thought, and in fairness to represent some of the feelings of others who have different opinions. Tom Fagan was an alderman for quite some time before he inherited the Mayor chair. Frankly, if he had been doing his job, he would have easily seen through Don Greer's charade. He would and should have known the stance of city finances. He would have determined that a city hall reconfig was a total pipe dream. Instead he put all his eggs in Greer's basket, turned the city over to him, and let the city slip into dire straits. What was he thinking? Was he just too busy? He had a lot of help from T. Trueblood and others in their quest to drain the swamp. Tom Fagan talked a good story, lawyers gab, lots of yak, but it was mostly chatter. Many of us have known for some time that revenues had to be slipping as we watched the march out of the city. We also watched as Ward 2 aldermen and a Ward 4 Alderman did nothing more than pittypat around their commitment and force their private swim club into being and turn our city into a political stage. For shame. We deserved better. This, if you will watch closely, continues. I personally found it a shame that Richard Breeding could not come to grips with his politics. Often he had some very good contributions only to end up voting against what I could see was against his conscience. He had the ability and the vote to have changed some of our history. What I saw on our board was more followers than leaders, no muscle,and now we are paying the price. I never want to see a City Administrator take the helm of my city. I never want to help pay for a BMW for a city employee and see that employee hold all the credit cards. It should be fact that city employees stay out of city politics.
Our Charter is sound, our Civil Service Code long overdue, we residents stopped the Taj Mah; the bandaids are in place. As for the $295,000 bonds for Kohl's developer. This is totally ludicrous. Now is a great time to stop the sucking sound created by the Private Swim Club and THF and their shannagins.
Time to Right the Wrongs! Now is a great time for our current aldermen to try and recoup some of the lost dignity and reputation of our city.
Opposition to our current Mayor seems to be in overdrive most of the time by a small contingent of people whose concern for our city seems to be that of running things down regardless of their merit, if they are not proposed by their cronies. The new Mayor has already made changes vitally necessary to our future. He inherited a hornet's nest. Long time board members have left, officials who accomplished little more than sit on the side of the bay and watch our city's fortunes decline and our reputation take a dip. Officials whose penchant for ignoring facts and whose creative juices were spent on spewing contempt for those who did not agree with them. A long dry spell for which we now pay the piper.
So, bloggers, time to face the music. We have a job ahead of us and the little bunch of dis-believers, be darn. Our Mayor and our board need your support. And we need their support.
This is no joke! It is no Yawn! And it cannot be handled by a-three legged dog!
5:08 PM Bingo!!!! You are so very right about everything you said. I am so proud of you. I have made many feeble attempts at constructing the right words to say, but have never been able to say them in a way as to not show my anger for the past transgressions that have put us where we are.
I am so happy that you have summed up everything I have wanted to say but never knew how.
Plaudits to you whoever you are. You have totally not missed a beat on everything that has happened to exaserbate this town from the get go and to show us the road we need to take from this point on before our city implodes.
Thanks again. In my view you are a winner! No politics, no antics, just the facts about the people, what we deserve and what we should expect from the people we elect. No backstabbing, no babblings, only getting on with what we all in Crestwood really deserve; because we are good people and should be treated as such by those who govern us.
5:08 share some of that stuff you are smoking, this mayor has promised you every thing and given you nothing but tax increases, and now, a soon to be vacant mall.
We are all behind him alright, if he would just tell us the truth were he was going.
Crestwood Improvement Association
Kirkwood Improvement Association
Rosebrook Real Estate Company
Crestwood Swim Club
Brentwood Swim Club
Watson Swim Club
MacKenzie Swim Club
Mapelwood Swim Club
Pools of public monies!
Hey 11:12 PM Can you tell me what tax increases you are talking about. Please itemize them ALL IF YOU DON'T MIND. And you are even going to blame THIS mayor for what is happening in the mall. Boy you got guts. What if we had embarked on a new 14 Million Dollar Police Facility that the "other Mayor" wanted, would that mean the plaza would not go down???? Oh Sure, we would have been swimming in sales tax then, wouldn't we. They would be using our cops to direct traffic in Crestwood Plaza so many people would have been shopping there, then wouldn't they???? Tell me does somebody else tie your shoes in the morning, or do you do it yourself?
2:29 up late tonight watching cable re runs? Pull you self away from your 12 step support group for a second and take a look at your tax bill for your home for starters. As for the $14 million you like to cry about, tell me where you would have spent the money from the BONDS that raised that money?
Just remember, it wasnt me who made promises, it was the Mayor who did so when he ran for office. Just hold him accountable to his own words instead of playing the blame game would be a sign that you were on the road to recovery.
7:19 am Thank you very much for your comments. Maybe re-runs are not your thing. But it does sound like perhaps soap operas are.
I am playing the blame game? Seems you are doing pretty good at that yourself. You are blaming this mayor for the demise of Crestwood Plaza in your comment. But when I try to put blame on the previous administration for other issues, you take offense.
This mayor has been on board for only a few years, when others were for many, many years and kept relying on sales tax for everything. I loved the first few things that he did when he got rid of the "biggest spender" in the whole city, Don Greer. And now the cubboard is bare, my friend, but you insist that it only happened when this mayor took office. All that does is make you feel better to think it but it's not true. It's just more political rehetoric.
I looked at my tax bill and as far as property taxes, I still don't see this mayor's name on it. I see lots of other taxes like Lindbergh School District and others, but those taxes are not regulated by Crestwood.
We have done nothing to balance our sales tax by increasing the property taxes to co-exist with the cost of living at all.
Crestwood property tax is still pitifully low. So, I did what you asked me to do and I think you are the one who needs to tell the truth here.
Sounds to me like you want to keep politics at the forefront like it has been in the past. If that is where you are headed, that is exactly what we will get; self-serving politicians who put themselves first and the welfare of the city low on the totem pole.
I do appreciate your input however, and I respect your views. I just see things differently so let's call it a day.
Is it politics to hold the Mayor accountable for what he promised he would do and not do when he was running for office and his actions now?
It seems to me that it is politics to say Don Greer spent all our money in the short time he was C/A, yet give the Mayor a pass for not doing anything but tax and spend in the short time he was in office. If you count the time both were in their respective positions you will find they are almost identical time spans.
"It seems to me that it is politics to say Don Greer spent all our money in the short time he was C/A,..."
Don Greer was City Administrator for over three years. During this time he spent $500,000 on his lawyer budy for a court case that the City ended up having to pay an additional $250,000 to settle. He hired multiple finance people who cost the City close to $250,000 (The City's Auditors had to make several hundered end of the year adjustments to correct their mistakes.) a year + another $50,000 for a web specailist.
Another $100,000 for an accounting softwar package that thought 1 + 1 = 3. Not to metion the $750,0000 on plans for the police palace with an office for the police chief that was bigger than the Mayor's...... do I need to add more?
Well you need to add that the settlement you talk about was made by this current Mayor, he is the one who signed the check on that one.
Have you ever thought that the cost of finance people was do because of the stupid duplicate State Audit that was forced down his throat. Plus it took more than just one person to figure our books out from the mess the previous finance man and his boss left the city with?
$100,000 software that didnt work? True story is it did work, but the staff our crack Mayor has currently in place couldn figure out how to make it work so we dropped that law suit as well. You remember "two secretarys and a couple of pencils to do City book keeping" statement by the Mayor dont you? Now we have the Mayor's C/A asking the BOA to go slow on requests for information come budget time becasue Ms. Tate (the last hold over from Greer) had left and no one has the background she had to do a city budget!
As far as the police palace sob story, I guess it's ok with you that the people who serve you( Police/Fire) work in a substandard building that is not up to Federal Code?
As far as office size, goes who is the full time employee and who is the elected part time mayor? Kind of thin skinned on that one arent you? which one is more important for the non-political work of the City?
By the way, you can add one more, who gave the City it's last balance budget? Why it was Don Greer, and his staff that have now all left for what I think are greener pastures.
Wow! What substance are you on Mr. T?
Will someone please direct this exeo to the nearest clinic!
Or, respond. His blog is so full of holes, it leaks. There are some on this blog who can repudiate everything 5:14 wrote. This one is so lame, it deserves a wiser one than me to respond.
1:26 PM blogger: Well it was 1.5 Million to do the plans, remember "himself" had them re-drawn with a larger office?
As for the rest of us, do we really need to hurl insults just because we didn't like someones post? I hope not, because if that's the case, well, who the heck is going to open a business here, "Donnybrook?"
Tom Ford
5:14 can't really be serious. For someone to make those comments, it has to be intentionally done to get a rise out of others. If he really believes his tripe, he is really sick.
Funny how he and others skim over what they don't want to admit to, and deliberately lie when nothing else works.
Blogger at 1:26 pm gave us the facts and I urge others to read that comment. The squirrel at
5:14 should go live in a country where people are under dictatorship because that's all Don Greer did when he was here was build his own personal empire.
So what do you two disagree with the points poster 5:14 listed? What of the six points they listed in response to the points poster 1:26 listed are wrong?
Please note that Tom found errors in the points made by 1:26, yet so far every one but Mr. Ford have claimed poster 5;14 is on drugs or something because of they can not repute them. Interesting, don't confuse me with the truth my mind is made up
I believe that the $1.5Mil included the new roof over City Hall., Right?
Speaking of the new roof over city hall. That new roof once fixed was going to have to be partially removed to accomodate the planned but not accomplished 14.5M city hall redo.
Talk about planning, leadership.
And you wonder why there were 2 audits.
What an idiot. After sooo much time passed, the drawings for a stand alone facility were too costly, hence try and retrofit current location. The BOA were trying to maintain current facility. More than the current administration is doing.
Poster at 1:26 comments are correct. He did his research and has normal thought processes. Maybe it's because he is tired of believing political baloney and wants to be hands on since you don't know who is truthful and who isn't.
If he/she has the time or inclination to explain each of his points, he/she could do it, but after awhile, you realize that people believe what they want, why confuse them with the facts. Many wouldn't believe the facts anyway so why go through the trouble.
Politics can be a four letter word.
Poster 9:41 come on, surely you can do better than that!
What research are you talking about? How would you they did any?
"How would you they did any?" ????
12:16 ????? If you mean, how do I know that the person at 1:26 did his/her research? How do you know he/she didn't? Same principle. As I said before, comments can come from a host of people who research and bring true comments to this blog, but you would prefer to believe people who are ruled by politics alone. A true follower of those who refuse to admit they failed this city, big time.
If after all these years have gone by, and all the truth that has now become public record, if you don't know how easy it is to get the truth, it's because you don't want to know it.
9:14 PM blogger: unless I miss my guess the roof was done the year before, thus it was not included in the 1.5 Million.
That's easy to verify though, as I believe Alderman Knarr was the project architect on the new Police station (prior to taking office,) He would know.
Tom Ford
You'll go through the roof when you hear the price of the roof!!!
Sorry...
"Well you need to add that the settlement you talk about was made by this current Mayor, he is the one who signed the check on that one."
The Mayor made the settlement after finding out that 1) Mr. Greer had failed to turn Mr. Leichliter's counter suit over to the City's Insurance Carrier. Why? Well, Mr. Greer did not want an insurance comany attorney that he couldn't control involved in the lawsuit.... to many ways that the turth about the following items would get out.... 1) That the "Forensic Audit", you know Tim, the document that was the basis for the whole bogus suit, was NOT authored by the Forensic Accountant, but none other than Don Greer and his new squeeze Dinana Madrid. 2) That Mr. Greer was involved in a sexual relationship with Ms. Madrid while serving as her immediate supervisor and authoring the "Forensic Audit"... I.E. reviewing her performance and setting her salary. 3) Mr. Greer covered up former Mayor Robertson's post holiday party drunk induced grope session of a City employee.
You see, Mayor Robinson was smart enough to figure out that the City was going to loose its suit and be counter sued by multiple parties for say a couple of million and be on the hook.
Enough facts for you Tim, or should I go on. Timmy, you hitched your horse to the Don Greer wagon and got used like everybody else. How does it feel?
8:14 am Horray! Plaudits to you my friend!!!! You are the best!!!!Thanks for telling it straight. Stay tuned however, because any time somebody makes a correct comment, the Faganites, The X-Mayor Robertson clan, and the Greer Lovers will come back with more of their tripe. Thanks again for your support. Glad to read somebody else has it right!!!!
8:14 AM blogger: Well that tears it! Now you will never be invited to the "old guard" Christmas party!
(Good job though!)
Tom Ford
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