O'Fallon, MO. say's NO to a TIF / TDD / CID, and, well.......
Please click on the header for a story about some folks I believe we know intimately. If this is a sign of things to come, I vote we give NOTHING to anyone for anything in the future!
I don't know about you, but I am tired of paying for someone else to reap the benefits of my tax monies. Where does it stop my friends?
Tom Ford
NO. 366
I don't know about you, but I am tired of paying for someone else to reap the benefits of my tax monies. Where does it stop my friends?
Tom Ford
NO. 366
posted by Crestwood Independent at 14:00
71 Comments:
"Morrow said the city's stance against TIFs puts it at a significant disadvantage when competing with other cities who do grant the subsidies."
Same thing with Crestwood. Wonder why Crestwood is also at a significant disadvantage? O'Fallon lost this business because of that stance! Mayor Marrow said so! Why anyone would be proud of losing a business and being at a "significant disadvantage" with other cities is beyond me.
It's very simple. If you don't like tax subsidized shops, you don't have to go. It's anti-subsidy people like this that ruin the opening of a new business for everybody else. "Oh we don't want to pay that tax, so we'll whine and complain til nobody else can shop there!" How childish. And Crestwood wonders why sales tax is dropping.
Before long there won't be anywhere else to shop if we keep it up! By the way this "bubble" like the housing market will burst one day, and we shall see who ends up holding the bag.
All this sounds great to many of you I am sure, but please look past the short term. What happens if Kohl's closes Nationally? Where do we go then to pay off the bonds?
Tom Ford
I'd like more clarification on our overall financial picture. A couple weeks ago, the City Administrator is quoted as saying Crestwood is headed toward a financial 'storm'. Then, there is a private meeting after the Board of Alderman meeting a couple weeks back that the City Administrator was asked not to attend, then all of a sudden he's out last week blaming the former Assistant City Administrator for bad projections and claiming Crestwood has no financial problems.
So, what's going on here? Looks like someone told him to recant and make things look good (possibly for the upcoming Mayoral election?). Should we be listening to his first statement? Are we having problems that are being covered up? The budget the City is currently using is the same one former City Administrator Greer created, have we seen one for 2008 done by the new administration? If we are having financial problems, why did we spend the money replacing most of the police fleet? Why did the police chief and the city administrator take vehicles out of the fleets for personal use? Why did the board approve over $10,000 in expenses for this recent city anniversary that was a major flop.
Also, there seems to be a blame game going on in Crestwood. After recent problems out of the city clerks office, there was some blame placed on the former city clerk, Kim Cottle, for why things were being done poorly today. Now they are blaming the former Assistant City Administrator for recent statements about our finances. Can our administration not accept blame for anything, or will we dump all the fault on recently departed employees?
Kohl's is not gonna go under, but the Mall will, so what will you do then?
Well, I was wondering how long it would take for posters to not fully read the article I posted, but remark on it anyway.
If you go back and read the article you will note that THF is not backing out of the deal, but rather a partner.
THF stated that they were going forward with the project (with no TIF,CID,TDD) and would be attracting another partner (plans in the works.)
Now oh pundent of the centers, just how "childish" would it be for Crestwood to expect the same from THF here (other than we gave them the farm keys last time?)
You see, it is possible to attract major developers without giving up anything! You only have to be willing to stand your ground, and not "blink" when some legend in his own mind threatens you!
So if the Mall goes under, I say stay the course, and before long we will prevail!
Crestwood is too important an area not to.
Tom Ford
2:46 Aug. 6th blogger
Wish you would have had all this wisdom when you were on the board.
As long as you cannot see the effect the past has had on today and refuse to recognize the efforts of today, you will continue to rest in your haze of discontent, which does nothing to forward your community. What a gainer you are as you wield armchair prose.
Local politicians come in many flavors, the ones I get the biggest kick out of are the ones who serve to impress their companies and those who aspire to state office. Crestwood fosters few of those.
Sticks and stones are not forbidden; you and your fleet of spitfires do seem to get your fix using them. But, pray tell, what do you expect to gain by your contempt for everything our officials do? Please board up your Kool Aide stand, your constant jabs have been repeated so often that they have lost all impact. Surely you can try another tactic ... teamwork toward progress in Crestwood. There are "Lots of miles to go" .....
5:47 said "your constant jabs have been repeated so often that they have lost all impact."
Well apparently they did have an impact if you felt the need to write about it now didn't it?
I'd love to see some more of that "armchair prose."
Why is the C/A changing his mind as often as he changes his shirt? Inquiring minds want to know. Sounds like a job for 'South County Mike'! Hop to it, buddy!
Well now my friend's, this seems to fit here, no?
Just a little something to think about.
It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then -- just to loosen up.
Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker.
I began to think alone -- "to relax," I told myself -- but I knew it wasn't true. Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time.
That was when things began to sour at home. One evening I turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that night at her mother's.
I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don't mix, but I couldn't help myself.
I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau, Muir, Confucius and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?"
One day the boss called me in. He said, "Listen, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find another job."
This gave me a lot to think about. I came home early after my conversation with the boss. "Honey," I confessed, "I've been thinking..."
"I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"
"But Honey, surely it's not that serious." "It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver.
"You think as much as college professors and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money!"
"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently.
She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in no mood to deal with the emotional drama.
"I'm going to the library," I snarled as I stomped out the door.
I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche. I roared into the parking lot with NPR(Fresh Air interview of Daniel Shore) on the radio and ran up to the big glass doors.
They didn't open. The library was closed.
To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night. Leaning on the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye, "Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?" it asked.
You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinkers Anonymous poster.
This is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker.
I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was "Porky's." Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting.
I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just
seemed easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking. I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me.
Today I took the final step...I joined the Democratic Party.
Tom Ford
I agree with 2:46. I too would like a clearer picture of our finances. What is it? After seeing what is happening to the mall and other vacant storefronts, I'm a bit worried.
I was always impressed with Kimberly Cottle. She was always friendly and worked to assist residents.
5:57 8/6
Strange that this blogger would chose to exclude the main subject of the referred to blog, that being: "surely you can try another tactic ... teamwork toward progress in Crestwood. There are "Lots of Miles to go." Instead the blogger merely compounded the truth of that post and drove it straight home.
Did I just read that revenue at the mall has declined 18 percent a year??? We need a shot in the arm. NOW. This flipping, flopping, and waffling on our finances can't continue. Give us the real story. Frank painted a rosy picture with his presentation. Too rosy. Completely different from the man that said we're facing a storm just a month earlier. Why the sudden change? And why didn't Frank mention much of the future or the storm in his presentation?
Poster 12:00 a.m. 8/7/07 Frank did what he did because it was the politcal correct thing to do. He had no choice, his boss, the Mayor told him to do what he did. If anyone really believes that Frank is not controlled by the Mayor, they are living in a fool's world.
Until we get some answers or some idea as to what Westfield will do (or is in the process of doing?), an economic forecast for the city will be difficult. That said, the city must prepare like there is a storm coming.
I absolutely agree. If we don't plan for a future without the mall or at least a few anchors, we'll be screwed.
"Poster 12:00 a.m. 8/7/07 Frank did what he did because it was the politcal correct thing to do. He had no choice, his boss, the Mayor told him to do what he did. If anyone really believes that Frank is not controlled by the Mayor, they are living in a fool's world."
7:18 AM, August 07, 2007
Let's talk about this "fools world"
..Politically correct thing to do
..Had no choice, did what he was told to do
..Controlled by the Mayor
Do you have Mr Myers phone and office bugged?
Does Mr. Myers cry on your shoulder?
Do you have so little respect for Mr. Myers that you would believe this garbage?
Do you think he is such a pushover that he would jeopardize his integrity and career?
Do you get some sort of "rush" when you hoist this undigested goop on a blog site?
Is your breakfast cereal brand "I Hate Roy Flakes/plausibility FREE?
Do you post anything after you have had your morning constitutional or is blogging a form of political Metamucil for you?
5:29 PM blogger: "Never argue with a fool, for after a while it is hard to tell the difference!"
Now I know your not the "fool," so...
What we have here is a Roy hater, and a sore looser! Fagan got shot down, the Charter idocy was shot down, the liberals are constantly shot down,and this poor soul is lost!
Have faith my brother (sister?) In the next election we will allow you into the "tent!"
ROY ROBINSON FOR MAYOR IN 08!!!!!
(paid for by, well I guess, me!)
Tom Ford
One thing about Frank, he will always be frank with you!!!
...sorry, I just cannot help it!
Yeah Frank will be frank about waffling. But he probably wouldn't be frank about all these lunches he has with aldermen.
I heard he was spotted at Fletcher's with the reporter from the CALL too.
Just don't put these lunches on an expense account. This is my money. Mr. Myers can buy his own lunch.
Prologue to the TDDs and CIDs
Owner: Rosebrook Real Estate Company/Crestwood Swim Club
Developer: THF Realty
1. Problems arose when the legal documents submitted by the owner/developer as part of the reimbursement request in connection with this property acquisition did not support the sales transaction
2. 0.7 acre acquired by the city was deeded directly to the city from the owner of the swim club rather than being deeded from the owner to the developer and then to the city
3. In an effort to clarify the circumstances surrounding this transaction, affidavits were obtained from swim club, the developer, and the city
sited from July 2007 Missouri State Auditor, Susan Montee, CPA on Transportation Development Districts Report No. 2007-28 to Governor Matt Blunt and Member of the General Assembly
page 53 Crestwood Point TDD
Prologue to the TDDs and CIDs
Owner: Rosebrook Real Estate Company/Crestwood Swim Club
Developer: THF Realty
1. Problems arose when the legal documents submitted by the owner/developer as part of the reimbursement request in connection with this property acquisition did not support the sales transaction
2. 0.7 acre acquired by the city was deeded directly to the city from the owner of the swim club rather than being deeded from the owner to the developer and then to the city
3. In an effort to clarify the circumstances surrounding this transaction, affidavits were obtained from swim club, the developer, and the city
sited from July 2007 Missouri State Auditor, Susan Montee, CPA on Transportation Development Districts Report No. 2007-28 to Governor Matt Blunt and Member of the General Assembly
page 53 Crestwood Point TDD
Check out the City of Creve Coeur
Olive TDD bond was sold in June of 2005 for around $5.9 million
The project has doubled and still not started.
The buyout of the service station for a right of way was not included in the $5.9 million.
Who forgot to put in writing about the right of way expense?
Can you add an Economic Development Tax over the Olive TDD to pay for the $3 million to get the road done?
Who will ever know that the project was never completed if the bond buyers receive their interest on their investment?
Will you tell!
What happens if the Olive TDD bond fails or any TDD bond fails?
Well, read the prospectus disclosures! You will find this very interesting.
Someone will add another TDD on top of a TDD and then add a Special Assessment Tax and then add an Economic Development Tax and then add a CID tax!
I guess it is time to shop on the internet to save all of these TDDs and CIDs sales tax dollars.
Check out the new welfare plan for the State of Missouri
87 of those TDDs reported total estimated revenues of over $1 billion would be collected over the lives (range from 5 to 40 years) of the respective TDDs
98 TDDS were established as of December 31, 2005
11 TDDS were not reported
sited from July 2007 Missouri State Auditor Report No. 2007-28 Transportation Development Districts
Who cares about the $1 Billion in sales tax dollars collected from the 87 TDDs?
The $1 Billion was only for our new Missouri State and St. Louis County roads to drive into our beautiful new TIF retail centers?
As long as the bond buyers earn their interest, we do not need new roads and bridges.
The Good News is that we have two beautiful swimming pools in Crestwood to cool off if we can't drive around town!
So sad, so very sad, no matter how much you want it to be, this is 2007, not 1967 and TIF's etc. are a part of the landscape we live in.
Without them we can all watch our retail and it's sales tax base move out of town, resulting in either our services being reduced or our property taxes increased.
It's up to our elected officals to address this and I don't see them doing so.
So sad.
Even with the TIFs and other mechanisms, retailers have left Crestwood. How much do we give? Does government exist for business?
All you have to do is open up the Crestwood Mall.
When you drive pass the Crestwood Mall, all you see is a big box.
Nothing attacts me to make a right or left turn to check out a "cool" place to walk around, shop, and eat.
"They will come when you tear down the walls in the front and put in storefronts with windows."
Human nature wants an open mall!
A mall is a meeting place and a leisure place to shop and eat not a warehouse with noise and video games!
Check out your history on when people stopped shopping at Crestwood Mall or stopped talking about Crestwood Mall as a meeting place! You guessed it. When they closed up the mall into one big enclosed box that you can't see the stores from the outside to find your friends or buy a quick gift.
I switched to the city of Webster Groves to buy cards and books. Check out Webster Groves bookstore and their boutiques. Just walking into some of their store is so relaxing that you want to buy something!
Does govt. exist for business? Great question! No really, that is a great question. In the case of Crestwood, what is the reason for our City Halls existance?
1. Provide Police
2. Provide Fire Dept.
3. Provide Street repair
4. Provide snow removal
5. Provide Parks system
I am sure there are more things that City Hall provides, none of which is free. So the next question is how does City Hall pay for what it provides us?
Next are we getting a good deal for our dollar?
Final question is if we want to keep current level of services are we willing to pay more, if the cost of providing those services goes up?
According to Monday's Post, Northwest Plaza in St. Ann is getting a $250 million investmnet. How come we can't get that done in Crestwood? From Monday's Article, it looks like St. Ann is in the same boat as we are, but they are apparently doing somthing about it. Why can't we?
7:26 AM blogger: I am so sorry to hear your so sad! In fact every time you post your "so sad" it seems. Take heart in 50 years none of this will matter to you.
If you can't wait, jump in at the next BOA meeting, and tell em what you think, but please be happy!
9:12 AM blogger: Northwest Plaza was sold for 40 Million to new owners earlier, and I am guessing they have the loot to renovate it.
Westfield is an Aussie held company who is here to make money, and IF they spend a buck here it will be a miracle! The best we can hope for is that they sell it to new owners who see the potential!
Someone said "open it up!" Now that will work (just look at Kirkwood Road.) People want to see what's there, not a brick wall with signs on it!
Open it up, clean it up, get some new shop's that people want, and need, and were back on the track.
One other thing that must be addressed here. That's the fact that many of our senior's won't go there because of the perception of unsafe conditions due to the roving band's of thugs that roam the center for no apparent reason.
Other malls have created a "cerfew" for that very same reason, and I hope Westfield will do the same.
If you don't believe me, ask someone you know (older citizen) how safe they feel there on a Friday, Saturday night?
Clean this up with the remaining items, and we have a viable space that will be an asset for years to come.
Tom Ford
Clean it up and open it up cost money and Westfield has got the message strong and clear that the Mayor and 5 of the Aldermen and their supporters will not support any TIF, CID or TDD funding for a rebuild.
Until Westfield can find a buyer, what you see is what you'll get and the decline in sales tax income to the City will continue to decline. Which leads to the questions poster 9:01 asked today: What do we want higher taxes or reduced City services?
If you and others believe that the majority of Crestwood voters agree with your position on "subsidies", why dont you get a enough signatures to have on the April ballet a question something like this:
"In order to hold property taxes low, should the Board of Alderman compete for retail development by being allowed to use TIF, CID and TDDs?"
Seems that I recall you and your friends getting enough signatures on an other issue so I am sure you could do it again.
That would settle the question once and for all of what the majority of the people want in Crestwood when comes to this issue.
4:08 PM blogger: Excellent idea! Now that you have hatched it why not run with it?
This is your chance to get into the fight to save Crestwood!
As you said, we could do it, but can you and your "supporters?" You know the State we live in is famous for the "show me" remark, so this is your opportunity brother / sister, go for it!
Tom Ford
A business park would be great with doctors, lawyers, and a pharmacist with some condos would be great!
Come on now Tom, we all know you and the rest of the group formaly known as the Crestwood Citizens for Fiscal Responsblity (CCFR) are the only ones who have the organization to gather the signatures needed to put the question on the ballet. We know that you are still meeting, not that there's anything wrong with that, but I sense in your reply a hint of not really wanting the voters to express their position on the question of subsidies.
Do you the tax payer want increased property taxes to off set the decline in sales tax income to the City or do you want the BOA to compete in the market place for new retail by being allowed to use TIF, CID, TDD?
Remember what question sparked this, it was "does govt. exist for business"? What say you?
We've had TIFs, TDDs, CIDs, and still had to pay additional property taxes - Prop S. You seem to be saying that the use of these mechanisms will negate the need for any increased property taxes. I don't see that as the case.
"Come on now Tom, we all know you and the rest of the group formaly known as the Crestwood Citizens for Fiscal Responsblity (CCFR) are the only ones who have the organization to gather the signatures needed to put the question on the ballet." Yes and we "control the City," No?
Well, I for one would love to see that issue on a ballot, but do you really want to pay the County $10,000.00 to do it? I don't think so. You have a voice, a ride to City hall, and an earstwhile Alderman to get it done, so?
Crestwood was set up to have good street's, police and fire protection, a park system, and someone to run them, period! Since then we have seen multi layers of government to "help" us.
A business by it's very nature is a risk. I have spent the last two days in my home office doing "design, build" work for various projects in Illinois. None of these are sure things, so could I have spent my time more wisely?
By the way, I bid one of my design, build projects today, the new Police facility in Smithton, IL.
Interesting that they (Smithton) had the project out for bid's with no 1.5 Million dollar drawings, but rather relying on the expertise of the contractors involved! I did the HVAC load calc's, the duct design, and layout, and quoted the equipment, and instillation pricing for FREE!
Will I get the job, I hope so. However there will be no TIF,TDD,CID monies for any of this, they will pay upon completion (the right way,) and not wait for a "sales tax" to help them!
Where did we go wrong? when did we decide that Crestwood must give up the farm keys to get anyone to build a "dog house" here? When will it stop?
Thats what I say!
Tom Ford
4:08 PM, August 08, 2007
5:16 PM, August 09, 2007
You seem to be making the assumption that one is either for or against these tax mechanisms, that there is no middle ground. I for one would prefer the city not have to use these. HOWEVER, if they do, I would like to see the developer or builder prove a need and show how the development would overall help Crestwood. Yes, many cities use these. And yes, we would be handcuffing ourselves if we did not. However, I don't want to get to the point that we give each new business a tax assistance package. Where is the BALANCE?
5:55 PM blogger: Taxes will be with us till death do us part (from the Government!) Will any of these so called economic development "tools" help that? In a word, NO!
It will give you another chance to pay more taxes though (1% at Kohl's.)
So, if your happy with that, well, just OK another corporate welfare project!
Tom Ford
What's Lindbergh's stance on the tax assistance to the Mall? Westfield has to convince them as well. Crestwood dodged one bullet by the Sunset Hills development failing. At this point we really can't take anymore chances.
While we are all so worried about the $.01 additional tax at Kohls or to put it in plain terms, $1.00 per hundred dollars spent, have you looked at the price of gas $2.59 gal and calculated the cost to in time and money to go to South County or West County malls? Let's see, Crestwood to West county and back 19 miles. At 19 miles to the gallon that equates to a cost of $2.59 to get there and back. Mathamatically that amounts to a savings of $1.59 for shopping at Kohls if you spent $100.00. And what about the value of your time? Additional wear and tear on your car? Puts a different twist on the subject now doesn't it? And while we are complaining about increased costs, has anyone looked at your most recent Laclede Gas Bill. Don't forget the additional municipal tax you are paying on that. Lends a lot of credence to the phrase "Nothing in Life is Free".
Let's not forget that Tom Ford and his ilk have a very narrow range of understanding--lets just call in one dimensional. Your example probably exceeds their grasp of high finance.
Well Crestwood mall is offically for sale.
The base retail sales tax rate throughout St. Louis County is 6.075%.
3:28 PM blogger: OK liberal friend, say what you will but Tom Ford and his ilk will continue to stand aganst "welfare check's" to developers!
My "ilk" put a stop to the police "palace" the Don had to have, and if need be we will once again go to the voters on this idocy!
Just look at who votes in this town, brother / sister, not 20 somthing's but seasoned citizens (like me,) who want no part of your hairbrained ideas on giving away the farm keys!
"One dementional?" Nope, not on your life homey, I have two sides, my way, or...........
Tom Ford
This "prayer" from Pastor Wright to the Oklahoma Senate may say it better that I can, so here goes!
"Heavenly Father,
We come before you today
To ask your forgiveness and
To seek your direction and guidance.
We know Your Word says,
"Woe to those who call evil good"
But that is exactly what we have done.
We have lost our spiritual equilibrium
And reversed our values.
We have exploited the poor and
Called it the lottery.
We have rewarded laziness
And called it welfare.
We have killed our unborn
and called it choice.
We have shot abortionists
And called it justifiable.
We have neglected to discipline
Our children and called it
Building self esteem.
We have abused power
And called it politics.
We have coveted our neighbour's
Possessions and called it ambition.
We have polluted the air
With profanity and
Pornography and called it
Freedom of speech and expression.
We have ridiculed the time
Honoured values of our
Forefathers and called it enlightenment.
Search us, Oh, God,
And know our hearts today;
Cleanse us from every sin
And set us free.
Amen!"
Tom Ford
Tom,
Please , Please send me some of whatever it is that you are smoking. I have no idea what the intent of your last post was but it didn't relate to anything we are talking about here. Stick to the subject will you pal.
2:44 PM
I live between the Walgreen's at Gravois and Sappington and the one in Crestwood. Due to high sales taxes in Crestwood, it is cheaper (at no additional cost to me since there is no mileage difference) to shop at the Gravois location. Especially if I have several items to purchase.
South County Center and other related shops are only a few miles extra for most local residents to get to.
If you don't think sales tax rates matter, stores were very busy last weekend during the state sales tax break.
Yes, nothing in life is free. In fact, life is very expensive. So I'm going to go where I get the best value for my dollar at a reasonable cost. If our current board members or previous board members wish to give developers tax incentive packages that add to sales taxes, I can only hope those same board members don't mind paying the additional sales taxes.
3:28 PM
Did you and your "ilk" support the previous administrations and their version of high finance aka increased taxes, attempted police station building, and operating the city on borrowed money? Did not that version of high finance almost bring the city to its knees?
Tom,
Why wont you and your ilk get a question on next April's election asking the voters of Crestwood if they want the BOA to use TIF, CID or TDD, to help attrack developers to Crestwood?
Since it is a regulary scheduled election it will not cost an extra dime to have this on the ballont. The results would send a clear signal to the elected people who run our City and to any developers who are still interested in Crestwood what the majority of the voters want done.
Since it your idea, why don't you do it?
9:04 PM blogger: You don't get it? Why am in not surprised. Let's see if I can connect the dot's for you.
First, read the post above that one, and next reflect on what some of our liberal politicians in Washington want to bring on this fine Country. Then sit in a dark corner and see if the lightbulb above your head comes on!
If so, wonderfull, if not repeat step one and two.
Tom Ford
5:33 PM blogger: My "ilk," wow, I love it! What if my "ilk" goes toe to toe with your "ilk" and we win? Will you then be saying that my "ilk" is the sort that gives you "ilk" a bad name?
Ah the possibilities one can conjure up while "working" gleefully away at being a.......
1. Desperate housewife.
2. home entrepreneur.
3. disgrunteled former official.
4. out of work politician.
Since this is multiple choice, and there is no wrong answer, I leave it to your imagination!
Tom Ford
If I had to be a member of anyone's "ilk", it would be Tom Ford's.
Tommy my boy, why are you and your ilk so afraid of allowing the voters to have the final say about the use of TIF etc in Crestwood?? Afraid of the outcome?
4:24 PM blogger: "Tommy Boy?" Wow, MOM is that you?
Please get you "ILK" to do the talking, the walking, and get it on the ballot!
"We have nothing to fear, but fear itself!"
Tom Ford
But Tommy old boy, I thought you were so proud of the seniors of Crestwood who stormed the gates to stop what they felt was a mistaken policy the City was following? You said so in one of your posts. Don't you feel the issue of our future retail is just as important, that it effects all of us the same? Dust off your old clip boards, get your walking shoes out the closet man, and hit the streets, it's time for you and your anti- business development crowd to put up or shut up! (You know Tommy, to be anti-business like you and your "ilk" are, is not very conservative, but is in fact quite liberal. Corp. Welfare is a LIBERAL term that has been used for years by the lefties in our nation.)
Do the majority of the voters in Crestwood, if given a choice between allowing the BOA to use TIF, CDD, or TID to gain more sales tax producing retail or increasing property taxes to hold on to our current level of service, which would they pick?
Or do you, ol Salt of the Southern Seas, have another way to keep our City afloat? If so run it up the main mast as see how it flys.
Hey, now it's Tommy OLD boy !!!
Not nice to call the blogmaster old.
7:42 PM blogger: Well, it's now your turn to "attack the ramparts" my friend!
I am getting a bit "long in the tooth" to lead the charge, so it's up to you! Now that you have a "leadership" role, how will you use it?
Will we see the "brave new leader" post with his/her name. Will we see the "leadership" so often missing come forth and bring us from the darkness to the light? Or will you continue to follow the path you have chosen and remain "anonymous?"
Pray tell, what will it be?
Tom Ford
Interesting comments. So if one believes in holding the line on TIFs, TDDs, and CIDs, and using them conservatively, that person is anti-business? Interesting stretch. And corporate welfare is OK? If that's so, then great. Maybe Crestwood won't repair or maintain your street ever again so it can use all of these tax tools to attract developers. I'm sure you'll be OK with that!
8:57 PM blogger: yep, I am an old, one eyed, fat man!
That said, I am ready, willing, and able to stand toe to toe with you in a verbal joust at any time!
Tom Ford
8:57 here...
I was just shocked at what the previous blogger called you ... that's why I said 'Hey'! I also wrote the next post, that it was not nice to call the blogmaster old.
On your side Tom, and proud to be part of your "ilk"!
Maybe not nice to call Tom old, but he seems to take a lot of pride in being old, based on his own posts. That still doesnt address the question of asking the voters to tell the BOA what they want.
The voters can tell the board what they want via e-mail, regular mail, telephone, or board meeting.
Oh yeah, I forgot, most of the Mayors supporters dont like it when there are ballot issues that the voters can vote on. Seem to recall a group of voters who started a petition that went no where but effectivly stopped you and I from voting on an issue.
Oh, I remember..pretty blatant but not one word about that was talked about at a BOA by the mayor. But he can sure rattle off a bunch of verbiage when it comes to something he doesn't like, even if it is not revelent to the BOA meeting.
Oh, I forgot. Shouldn't say anything about the past! sorry
Wow, I remember the ballot issue that did not go your way. The one everyone could vote on. The one that was the result of a premature board and its meetings which was an effort to keep the spenders in office another term. Whew! are you still upset over that one? The one which was totally explained at length at a meeting, but because the voters were smarter than you thought they were failed.
Say what you will about the Mayor, which indeed you do daily, despite the dreadful finances of the past 5 years, terrible audits, settlemlents with ex-employees, lawsuits of a serious harrassmsent nature, unbelievable legal bills unsubstantiated, transfer of property for a private swim club which is buried in controversy and under investigation and, of course, a tag team of politicos some of whom were so rude as to be a total embarrassment to the city -well you should stop for a minute in wonder when you realize what this Mayor inherited. Think about other suburbs with one with a Mayor in jail for bribery, one with conflict of interest, one with their whole BOA replaced due to a developer mistake and a whole subdivision disturbed, another suburb who bought out homes and now can't afford to build a city hall on the lots. There are some very interesting stories out there and even though we are seeing our plaza in jeopardy, it is not a complete shock. While other cities around us powered up the TIF's, Westfield did not want to financially extend themselves and bet on the outcome. We do have some rough days ahead, but I think the nice people outnumber those like you who would rather wallow in lost power than be a positive factor. This is not about you. It's about the rest of us who will take the lumps and work together. When the dust settles we will deal with it. You don't have to like the Mayor, but it wouldn't hurt you to care about Crestwood. I am really amazed at your abundance of sour grapes.
Thank you for allowing me to dislike our mayor. What you need to understand is just because I find the Mayor to be totally unfit to have the job, does not mean I dislike our City. They two are not one in the same.
5:52 PM blogger: Now that's the way to explain yourself!
Nay sayers, like bad weather will be with us always! But those who can see past the adversity (like you,) are a breath of fresh air!
Tom Ford
7:51 blogger August 15, 2007
That is correct, it is not one and the same to dislike the Mayor and thus the city. I am glad you felt the need to express yourself and clarify this fact. I hope you feel the better for it. I know I do.
Actually, we HAVE NOT HAD a "FIT" Mayor since Patricia Killoren, whose presence did not seem to inspire the hostility that lies just beneath everything that happens at city hall since. The Mayors, since Mrs. Killoren, all have had agendas, few of which benefitted the city 100%, few of which represented the constituancy in a measurable way. Many which created havoc, financial strain, massive suspicion and put some mighty big bucks in the britches of developers, contractors, private swim club folkies, architects, planners, and LAWYERS. If all this leadership did not see the sinking sales tax revenue coming down the track (they either did not get the whole story, nothing but the whole story from our unfit city administrators and assistants and financial gurus) or the story put before them was vague, false or congured up. Too often officials, who did have our best interests at heart, were overridden and in the minority, members of the wrong pool or church. This minority was the brave one. Crestwood finances have been abused for so long that finding the bottom line would take the Energizer Bunny a lifetime. If you consider the money spent on legal fees alone, including the bills from city attorneys, you, sir, would go into cardiac arrest. You would see the decline of the cash cow did not happen recently or overnight. You would also discover your personal idea of "UNFIT" people at city hall might grow. (Please note I borrow your term, unfit several times).
You would be absolutely wrong if you thought residents have their heads in the sand. When the 2 audits both indicated "mismanagement of funds" it probablay wasn't someones imagination. Right then and there the red flag should have flapped away - but sadly the ones whose heads were in the sand were some of those spending our money: unusable software programs, a 14.5M dollar city hall rehab, new furnishings, comp time, lawsuits, settlements, a BMW and on and on. The rear view mirrow is really murky about now, but you are definitely free to place blame on someone who has had to navigate through all these roadblocks. You sound sorta like someone who would say the above is old news. You bet it is, old news that haunts and troubles and lingers. AND despite all this, our city has a big heart and trudges along thanks in no small part to the patience and dedication of city employees who want to help turn it around. AND thanks in a big part to a city full of people who don't share your opinion of the Mayor and who are hoping their new CA will keep his nose to the grindstone, present the total picture and keep our belt tight enough so we can surface. This is a 'together' thing and for the most part, this city is just too small and too precious to let status quo politics reign .... Too many nice people here who determined that term limits was a starting point to start on OUR PLAN for tomorrow. The more I read or hear personal attacks on our Mayor or gloom and doom about our future, the more I anticipate a bright outcome. The more I see our employees and our residents participate in this endeavor together the more inspired I become.
I am pleased you like Crestwood, sir. I realize the Mayor is not your cup of tea. But I hope you will throw in with the good guys. They are all over town.
11:08 AM blogger: Well you nailed it there my friend!
Nothing more to say!
Tom Ford
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