Alderman Bland and the "paper!"
It seems as though Alderman Richard Bland (Ward 1,) likes to see his words in print in the "paper!" In this weeks edition Alderman Bland states that 80% of the Crestwood citizens are far to busy raising children, going to ball games, and leading their lives to attend a BOA meeting. He further states that the remaining 20% seem to be there to "take shots" at those on the Dias!
Now I really doubt that the 20% of the citizens that attend are there to cause trouble for him or anyone else on that Dias! No Mr. Bland they are there because they care about their city, and they care about what happens to it in the future. I wonder what he will say to Martha Duchild, and some of the other "Mom's" who attend, and who find the time to be civic minded? Mr. Bland, you are becoming a legend in your own mind here, just who do you think elevated you to this lofty perch anyway?
Now you would think that would be enough for one sitting, but you would be wrong! Not to be outdone by himself, Mr. Bland goes on to say that if you blog, you don't have to tell the truth! So I suspect that he is calling all of us liars, no? Mr. Bland this may have escaped you but a "Blog" is a grouping of opinions, not a scientific fact sheet! So whats' your point?
Now these comments I find really interesting as Mr. Richard Bland authorised, and delivered flyer's to the Ward (one day before the election) that said his opponent (Mr. Darrell Wallach) was in favor of "eminent domain!" He knew it was not true, he knew it was an inflammatory remark, and he knew it was the type of thing that would scare the senior citizens in his ward! Mr. Bland won by 36-37 votes no doubt because of this falsehood he allowed to be perpetrated on the citizens of Ward 1.
Mr. Bland was the election really that important to you to win that you were willing to put that lie on paper and distribute it in your Ward, and if so, why pray tell?
Tom Ford
No. 396
Now I really doubt that the 20% of the citizens that attend are there to cause trouble for him or anyone else on that Dias! No Mr. Bland they are there because they care about their city, and they care about what happens to it in the future. I wonder what he will say to Martha Duchild, and some of the other "Mom's" who attend, and who find the time to be civic minded? Mr. Bland, you are becoming a legend in your own mind here, just who do you think elevated you to this lofty perch anyway?
Now you would think that would be enough for one sitting, but you would be wrong! Not to be outdone by himself, Mr. Bland goes on to say that if you blog, you don't have to tell the truth! So I suspect that he is calling all of us liars, no? Mr. Bland this may have escaped you but a "Blog" is a grouping of opinions, not a scientific fact sheet! So whats' your point?
Now these comments I find really interesting as Mr. Richard Bland authorised, and delivered flyer's to the Ward (one day before the election) that said his opponent (Mr. Darrell Wallach) was in favor of "eminent domain!" He knew it was not true, he knew it was an inflammatory remark, and he knew it was the type of thing that would scare the senior citizens in his ward! Mr. Bland won by 36-37 votes no doubt because of this falsehood he allowed to be perpetrated on the citizens of Ward 1.
Mr. Bland was the election really that important to you to win that you were willing to put that lie on paper and distribute it in your Ward, and if so, why pray tell?
Tom Ford
No. 396
posted by Crestwood Independent at 17:06
114 Comments:
After reading the CALL article, I don't think I've ever felt such disgust for what is going on in City Hall. If Bland, Pickel, Roby and our esteemed mayor think they are doing us such a favor, they really are clueless. Boys, if you don't like criticism or don't like listening to your constituents, RESIGN. Do us all a favor and clear your seat.
Just when you think it can't get any worse ...
There is no in is this town who enjoys seeing their words in print than Tom Ford. Furthermore, it IS mostly the crackpots that have the time to show up at City Hall meetings. Sorry, just the truth.
There will always be the voice of the public. Doesn't mean that their opinion is always right but they have the right to voice their opinion.
I think that unless the average citizen receives the packets of information that the alderman do, they never see the whole picture. If this information was read by all, maybe opinions might be different.
The packet is yours for the asking. Another reason why it's a crock to believe that people didn't know what they were voting for when they approved the Sunset extension of the Cap. Improvements tax.
Get over it. It was shameful that the words "new police facility" were not on the ordinance nor on the ballot language.
6:47 AM, October 05, 2007
Are you an alderman or ex-alderman?
I wonder what the new consultant told the board what to do?
Revitalize main street?
Balance the budget?
According to what I was told, NOT ALL of the packet is ours "for the asking" until the board acts on it.
Well, if we are going to talk about who lied while politicking, Roy surely comes way ahead of Mr. Bland. He spent weeks, not just the day before, making up stories and publishing newsletters that rivalled the National Enquirer.
No, it isn't just 'crackpots' that show up at Board meetings, however, I get sick of being told that if I don't attend them all religiously, I don't have the right to a say or an opinion in Crestwood. Aren't elected officials there to represent my opinion? That's like telling me I need to attend every session of congress or not have an opinion about my federal government.
I do agree we've had less than stellar elected officials in Crestwood, I can't think of any of the 9 currently up there that impress me. We need some fresh blood from the mayor on down.
Run Martha, Run!!
6:47 AM blogger: Yep, and it's my playground, so I get to do what I want to!
"Crackpots" attending the BOA meeting? Well my brave "anonymous," in some cases you might be right! Why I have seen the likes of former Alderman, and their wives. And thats not to mention a man dressed in all black outfits that has a tendency to address the Board!
However the lions share of the citizens are people who want to see the right thing done here. People who do not want to waste tax money on private pool's or police stations that we could never have afforded!
If that is "crackpot," well bring it on, as thats what it's all about!
By the way, I am starting a new group in Crestwood! It will be called S.P.O.N.G.E. ( the society for the prevention of the nitwits getting everything!) Want to join?
Tom Ford
Well, I am not sure I read the articles in the call with the same end result as some did but several comments I am reading here strike me as being 2 sided. "I don't have the right to a say or an opinion in Crestwood. Aren't elected officials there to represent my opinion?" I believe we have a right to both but for our opinions to be heard we either have to attend the meetings and state them or call our aldermen and voice our opinions. Doesn't that seem logical? I certainly wouldn't want their job primarily because I am not a mind reader.
Now we've spent $12,000 to develop goals for the City and still no timeline for implementing them...
"Accountability - What is that?
It is not my money.
Thank goodness for the Kohl's shoppers.
Our elected officials wouldn't have a place to cool off from Tom Ford's blog!"
Tom,
What about rotating you own article on each Alderman?
Can you give the Alderman homework?
How about reading and taking classes on the Sunshine Law?
"Now we've spent $12,000 to develop goals for the City and still no timeline for implementing them..."
Yes, I just don't understand the use of these consultants. Commission 2000 put together an impressive list of goals ... goals that are still relevant ten years later ... why not use them?
Mr. Ford
After reading many of the entries on your blog, I have to take a little different approach to the comments being made here. Let me preface my comment by saying I have attended several Aldermanic meetings and made the following observations.
First, they were very poorly attended. There were maybe 10 people in the audience.
Second, those that were there were given an opportunity to address the board but only one or two did so.
And finally, at the end of the meeting, several of the aldermen approached me and thanked me for attending and for my comments. One gentleman even said he wished that more citizens would attend.
I fully understand that not everyone is capable of attending every meeting but certainly in a city of more than 10,000 people their should be enough people attending to fill the room.
If those individuals voicing their opinions here were to attend the meetings I would expect standing room only and that would show our city officials that we are concerned and want change. But the old saying "The squeeky wheel gets the grease" certainly applies. In other words, if enough people make their wishes known, I believe the aldermen would be forced to do something or risk us voting them out at the next election. One voice is often heard as a whisper whereas 100 voices comes in loud and clear.
8:28 PM blogger: If they keep up this senseless spending on "consulants," and giving away the farm keys to developers they will NEED a place to cool off!
That's why I,m here folks! I like to shine the light on these little known cornors in City Hall, and give you the chance to voice your opinion!
If your too shy to speak in public, say it here, under "anonymous," heck we surely have former "leaders" doing it as well as their wives, and friends (by the tone of the post,) so get your two cents in!
8:29 PM blogger: I will be "rotating around the Dias" when it becomes nessessary. Let one person, no matter who put inane comments in the "paper," or pull a bone headed stunt, and "bingo" their on "front street!"
They wanted the job, they said they were better than their opponent would ever be, so since Crestwood is still part of Missouri, "show me!"
I for one am sick and tired of the "holier than thou" attitude exibited by a few of these third rate ward healers who don't answer E-mails, roll their eyes, and exude the aloof apperance of "I'm better than you!"
Boy's, thoes days are over! If you want space on the Crestwood Independent, just keep it up, and I guarantee you will have it!
9:31 AM blogger: Very well written, and said! I agree that if more people did attend things would be different, sadly, however that's not the case.
We did have overflow crowds at the animal control meeting, so it can be done. I fear apathy has set in due to the many years of people going, complaining, and the Board doing what the wanted to anyway (swim club, Grewe deal,) so why bother.
Citizens like you and others who post here can change that though, it's happened before, and it can happen again!
I think we need more "town Hall" meetings on Saturday mornings so more people can attend. I don't think that people don't care, they do, else this blog would be empty, but some are shy, and some a afflicted by the apathy malase I mentioned above.
Please keep up the great posts, this is at least one place your voice will be heard!
Tom Ford
Yup, reminds me of when Roy was running for Mayor and he had on his website that he had a plan to bring Crestwood back.
Anyone seen that plan? Be sure to ask him for a copy of it at the next BOA meeting, I'm sure you be happy with the way he treats you for asking.
11:58 am 10/5 Are you deaf dumb and blind? Cap. Imp. Sales tax does not delineate a Multi-million dollar police department. You can't be that lame but maybe you are.
I say get over yourself and realize you screwed up. Only somebody that was involved with this worthless deception of the people in Crestwood on this issue would keep bringing it up over and over again. It's either that or somebody just wants to keep the flame burning. I have had my last "malox moment" from you, rocket man.
Really, sounds like "I screwed up"? It sounds like you screwed up by not knowing what you were voting for.
If the passage of the Sunset Extension is so distasteful to you, get together with your friends and start a petition campaign to have a ballot issue calling for the rolling back of the Capital Improvements Sunset to it's original date put on the ballot in April '08. Check out how to do that by getting a copy of the City Charter and reading it. It's on line free if you want it bad enough.
In fact, I challenge you to do this, to correct this great evil, which if it was an evil, certainly is money the City should do with out. What better way to prove to me that you now know what your doing by ending the extension of the Capital Improvements Tax Sunset by this action.
I bet you won't do it, cause to do so would require more action than taking Maalox, it would require putting your beliefs into action, "cry baby".
Put up or shut up.
Instead of that, I would like to see the city have both an internal and external investigation as to why the words "and the construction of a new police facility" or similar language was not written on the ordinance nor the ballot language. THAT is what needs to be done.
Sure, spend more money and employees time, just fix it if the extension isn't needed and be done with it.
Want to make a wager that the Mayor, C/A and BOA would come unglued if there was a ballot to roll back the Sunset? I wouldn't if I were you.
So after you find out those magic words should have been on the ballot, then what do you do, say" see I told you so", you still are paying the tax longer and you still had a large number of people who read the newspapers and knew what they were voting for and against.
Remember, "you can't fool all the people all of the time".
I think this is something that should be looked into.
Do I want to roll back the extension of the capital improvements tax? No.
Do I care if the mayor, c/a, and board come "unglued" if there was a call to roll it back OR anything else the citizens do? Not in the least. They may or may not think this, but the mayor and the board work for the citizens.
But I would like to know why a significant aspect, perhaps the most significant aspect, of a tax extension was not included on the ordinance or ballot language.
3:39 PM Oct. 8th. What tells me that you don't know what you are talking about rgarding the cap. improvement sales tax is this.
The signatures on the petition to stop it from going through, was signed sealed and delivered by the people of this community. Had the people wanted it, the petition would have never been signed by anybody in Crestwood to stop it.
Therein is your answer. Therein should tell you and everyone that the people were deceived in the first place at the ballot booth or else there would have been no petition or if there was one, the citizens would have never signed it.
6:42, so what is your problem with undoing it? Is it then you would have nothing to cry about?
By the way, what petition are you babbling about in your 2nd and last paragraphs?
Just go up to City Hall, take out the paper work, get people to agree with you that the extension to the Sunset on the Capital Improvements tax should be repealed, get them to sign the petition. You will have undone this miscarriage of justice all by your self.
Is there something wrong with the seats in City Hall?
No, but there is a problem with the sound system which is lousy!
If your on the deaf side like me, you will miss most of the comments no matter where you sit!
That's one of the main reasons that I don't go! I have no idea what they are saying (yes it may be a blessing,) but it would be nice to hear it!
Tom Ford
Gee, lets spend some money for an upgrade of City Hall so all can hear and see what is going on? Remember after all, that was the idea of having a Capital Improvements fund?
After all the budget is supposed to have a surplus of over $600,000 at the end of this yr. The least we can do is have a meeting place were people can hear what it is being spent on.
You have that wrong - the capital improvement fund (according to some) is only for streets, etc.
If it were for other improvements, that should have been in the ballot language. (small people!)
No, you have it wrong, Capital Improvements include improvements to buildings owned by City, like a new roof or HVAC as well the building of new buildings or purchase of property or parking lots. It is not, nor was it ever, by State law restricted to just streets.
The Capital Improvements fund CAN NOT be used to make payroll,or to balance another fund, unless the BOA votes to approve the loan and the loan is paid back to the lending fund. This is what the C/A before Mr. Greer did with the help of his Asst. Matt C and his Accountant Bob W. They moved the money from one fund to another without the elected officials knowledge or approval and when a new Mayor came in and found this out, he forced him to retire. Then after the audits of the books proved the C/A had mislead the BOA into spending more money than the City had, the City stopped paying him. He then sued the City because the terms of retirement did not allow him to not receive a paycheck regardless of what was found out about what he did after he left the job. Bad agreement for the City's or else the law suit would never have been settled by current Mayor, and former C/A (before Mr. Greer) would have been won.
More poor legal advise.
I remember the former CA using the City Newsletter to promote the need for a new police building.
Seems like we should have gotten the opportunity to use this same newsletter to post reasons to oppose it...
Wait just a minute, you are saying that the information about the "new" police station was in the City Newsletter, the Crestwood Connection? How can that be since there are people who claim on this blog that they didnt know what they were voting for?
You got a chance to vote against it did't you?
I guess it just proves again you cant fix stupid.
7:23 am Another liar. Tell me what newsletter spoke about a "new police facility"? Nadda. It was never in the newsletter. Someone again, is trying to pull your chain. You find it in any newsletter, and I will eat the paper it was written on.
I think the new police facility proposal was in the Crestwood Connections (or whatever it was called in 2002) one time.
8:58 a.m. blogger: start eating.
This is from the August 2002 Crestwood Connections
Can the new police facility be built if Proposition S does not pass?
No. Without the extension of the Capital Improvements tax, the police facility will not be built.
11:04 then why was it not on the ballot specifically "Police Facility". One time it was in the newsletter and that is suspose to be enough PR to satisfy the residents? So that is your case?When hundreds of people said they didn't see it on the ballot and then signed a petition to stop it. So the hundreds of citizens are dumb, but the few that knew what it was for are intelligent?
11:18 that's exactly right. Obviously you're one of the dumb ones.
3:21 PM Feel better now! Good, I'm glad.
3:21 PM Feel better now! Good, I'm glad.
8:58, how do you like your paper, with or with out salt?
3:54 PM ATTENTION PLEASE:
7/93 ORD. 3276 INTRODUCED BY ALD. BRASFIELD.
AN ORDINANCE PROVIDING FOR A SALES TAX IN THE AMOUNT OF ONE-HALF OF ONE PERCENT FOR THE PURPOSE OF FUNDING CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AND CALLING AN ELECTION ON SUCH TAX TO BE HELD ON NOVEMBER 2, 1993.
Sec. 1 - ...purpose of funding cap. improvements including operation and maintenance of cap. imp. (NO NEW BUILDINGS ARE STATED HERE)
Sec. 2....shall expire fifteen years after it's effective date.
OFFICIAL BALLOT SPECIAL ELECTION, TUESDAY, NOV. 2, 1993 (BALLOT NAMES THIS AS PROPOSITION 2 AND STATES):
(SHALL THE CITY OF CRESTWOOD IMPOSE A SALES TAX OF ONE-HALF OF ONE PERCENT FOR THE PURPOSE OF FUNDING CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS WHICH SHALL EXPIRE FIFTEEN YEARS AFTER ITS EFFECTIVE DATE.)
Then comes this ONE on
5/2002 ORDINANCE 3733 INTRODUCED BY ALDERMAN BREEDING.
AN ORDINANCE EXTENDING THE FIFTEEN YEAR EXPIRATION DATE ON THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT SALES TAX PASSED BY THE VOTERS OF CRESTWOOD NOVEMBER 2, 1993 AND CALLING AN ELECTION ON SAID EXTENSION TO BE HELD ON AUGUST 6, 2002.
If the above ordinance is an extension of the cap. improve. sales tax THAT WAS PASSED IN 1993, and THAT original did not state a 14 million dollar facility, then this one doesn't either. SO NOW HERE IS THE BALLOT ON THE EXTENSION CALLED PROPOSITION S - FOR SAFETY AND STREETS.
OFFICIAL BALLOT
SPECIAL ELECTION
TUESDAY, AUGUST 6, 2002
SHALL THE CITY OF CRESTWOOD EXTEND THE FIFTEEN (15) YEAR EXPIRATION DATE ON THE ONE-HALF OF ONE PERCENT SALES TAX APPROVED BY THE VOTERS AT AN ELECTION ON NOVEMBER 2,1993, FOR THE PURPOSE OF FUNDING CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AN ADDITIONAL FIFTEEN (15) YEARS.
You tell me where it says IN EITHER OF THE ORDINANCES ALSO APPROVED BY THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN OR IN THE BALLOT LANGUAGE that we were to fund a 14 million dollar police station? And that's not all.....
Further, you tell me why in a letter to the Neighborhood Watch Block Captains asking for their assistance to pass out flyers on this issue, did it state that PROPOSITION S - FOR SAFETY AND STREETS needed the flyers to be passed out to each home in Crestwood and that "the money for this tax has been used primarily on Crestwood's street program since the tax went into effect and there are a number of capital items the city needs that would require the tax be extended for fifteen years. The infamous Don Greer omits telling us what capital items the city needs that he is talking about. NO MENTION OF A 14 MILLION DOLLAR POLICE STATTION. AND.... Further stating that "PROPOSITION S - FOR SAFETY AND STREETS" would finance those needs".
This went out to each home in Crestwood. Where doesn't it say anything specific about a brand new 14 million dollar police facility?.
After I eat the one and only Crestwood Connection edition for August as you suggested, I will pass the salt to you and you can eat the ordinances and the ballots previously mentioned.
And you tell me that we are dumb? Nothing but one stupid blurb in one Crestwood Newsletter is all the people of Crestwood got regarding what they were really voting on.
I am finished with you. You just keep trying to shove things down my throat along with a lot of other residents in this community with the exception of your In Crowd.
So spin your web for somebody else.
Stupid is as stupid does.
If you don't know what you are voting for then do not vote. It is your job as a citizen who received a free public education to find out what you are voting for. Are you telling us that when you buy a car you don't do any research on the car before you buy it? If you invest in the stock market do you do a little research on the stocks you are interested in? When you go on vacation do you do a little research about the place you are going?
If any of the above is yes, then why wouldn't do the same on something you vote on?
You took the time to research all the way back to 1993, but you couldnt take the time to research what you were voting on?
How about starting a drive to recall the Sunset if seems so unfair to you? That would make things fair wouldn't it?
8:17 am Good Morning. If only one blurb in the Crestwood Newsletter is going to give me a true picture of what is going on, whatever else we would read would say nothing about a 14 million dollar police department.
What I previously illustrated to you in my comment showed you the material that people had available to them to research and it said nothing of a "14 million dollar police station". So don't talk about researching something before you buy it. When you buy a car and everything you researched on that car is inaccurate and misleading, who is to blame you or the manufacturer. Don't you get it?
I am not going to debate with someone who already feels that he has no room for the facts I have presented. I only went through all that trouble to try to make you understand that the avenues we would pursue to find out what we were really voting on were not stating specifically a 14 million dollar police station.
So if we didn't know what we were voting on, it isn't our fault when the truth was never presented to us in the first place. We voted and thought that it was for capital improvements. The proposition material put out to us said it was for safety and streets.
Proposition S - For Safety and Streets. How would you get a 14 million dollar police facility out of that????
Nobody else on this blog wants to debate you and I can see why! So I am also done.
Poster 4:35 PM, October 09, 2007
"Bad agreement for the City's or else the law suit would never have been settled by current Mayor, and former C/A (before Mr. Greer) would have been won.
More poor legal advise."
Chris Hesse drafted the agreement with Don Greer and Jimbo Roberston looking over his shoulder. Who is to blame?
BTW, you mention Matt C. as being somehow responsible. Matt tried to do his job the best he could given the position he was in. He DID NOT have access to City's bank accounts nor the ability or authority to move money around.
He did question certain actions. Unfortuantley he was ignored, or in the case fo the Police Palace Fiasco threatned into keeping his mouth shut.
I would get your facts straight before you point fingers!
Poster 9:10
Facts are you didn't do your civic duty and read the Crestwood Connections, the local newspapers or attend any of the many Alderman meetings where the plans for the Police Station was talked about and shown in public meetings. You voted for something you didn't have the facts about. Now you cry cause you weren't bottle fed the information that was there for the asking.
I doubt if it had been on t.v. and radio's local news that you would paid any more attention than you did to the other sources of information, much less if it had been on the ballot would you have read it even then.
While your are doing your research back to 1993, did you happen to see how many meetings at City Hall where held about the ballot issues? Have you read the minutes of the OPEN meetings? Do you consider POLICE to be a safety issue?
Funny thing about this, I voted against it because I knew what I was voting on, if I could figure it out, why couldn't others. No excuse!
4:58 PM Give it up whoever you are.
I don't believe you voted against the cap. imp. tax for a second, as you so state. I believe it's what you say to drive your point across; using yourself as an example to make people who didn't go to meetings, or read publications( which I also say were never published) feel inferior.
You don't fool me one bit! Why? Because you protest way too much.
You do it to make others feel bad and want people to believe you are such a model citizen when you are not. Well I guess you showed us didn't you? We bad residents should be hung on crosses in the middle of city hall's parking lot. You are way too insistent and over the top with your remarks to be believed.
You are just one of those die hard individuals who has to be right even if you are wrong. And it don't mean "beans" to me fella!
Give me a break Mr.Braggadocious. You just want everyone to feel you are oh so much more intelligent than others.
I can tell that you didn't vote against it because of how you just can't seem to stop yourself from making those who feel misled hung out to dry. You keep ranting and raving about it and won't shut up at all; that's a dead giveaway that you are angry because you were on the wrong side and won't admit that the people of Crestwood were deceived.
I think you are antagonistic and I hope you family doesn't have to listen to you as it seems that you just won't shut up. I think you would say anything to make us believe you are right.
Lastly, I really don't care what you think of me or others, and I don't care what you say anymore.
This police facility wasn't mentioned specifically on the ballot and to me that was the last straw. It was the most important thing out of this whole issue.
This is not a debate session and I told you before that if you want to still continue to open your horn mouth about this issue, you will have to do it with someone else.
If you insist that no matter what, you just have to have the last word, so be it. I am not the only one who feels this way so go pound sand up somebody else's butt, not mine.
If you can't stand the truth, my dear, then stay in the dark.
My, you sure have a problem with being wrong don't you? Maybe next time before you vote you'll take the time you currently spending reading and posting on this blog on something useful, like learning what the heck your voting on.
I just don't get how you get your skirts up into such a tight wad claiming you were not told anything about what some of the money was to be spent on, yet you have no problem with the current clowns at City Hall having illegal closed door meetings where they spend our tax $, take illegal votes, and refuse to obey State law. Talk about not learning from the past and being doomed to repeat the mistakes in the future!
19:39 Who are you, phantom blogger?
I have no idea who you are bickering with but everybody on my street didn't know about a 14 million dollar police station either.
The lady next door is a nurse on night duty and doesn't go to board of aldermen meetings nor does she have time to read anything. She works 12 hr. shifts.
My other neighbor has poor night visision and can't drive at night.
From what I understand by who attends those, hardly anybody does attend aldermen meetings.
If all citizens have to attend board of aldermen meetings to get the truth, we would have people standing in the streets to get in the chambers.
I read everything including the New York Times every day and outside of your August newsletter, police facility was never mentioned in anything I read.
If we are suppose to know that Proposition S - for Safety and Streets is for a new police facility, we would have to be a city of mindreaders.
I am acquainted with most of the people on my street and none of them say they knew about a 14 million dollar police facility and they all signed the petition to stop it.
I would like for you to delineate all the papers it stated 14 million dollar police station. The PR just wasn't out there.
I am sorry, but I have to agree with the blogger that states that the ballot language is the key because that is the official document that is voted on.
Thanks.
I am really getting tired of talk about not knowing about the extension of the capital improvement fund and the intentions of what the money would be used for.
2000 - staff visited other municipalities facilities
11/27/01 - feasibility study regarding a new police facility was authorized
5/02 feasibility study regarding new police facility (47 pages) was presented to the BOA
5/14/02 - police facility discussion & extending sunset provision on capital improvement sales tax
5/21/02 Work Session - Police facility
5/28/02 meeting - police facility discussion & putting extension of capital improvement sales tax on the ballot - timing it then because city was told there would be a movement in rates (cost more over 20 yrs)
5/28/02 - police facility memo
Seems to me that between 5/02 and 8/02 the public was informed. Everyone on this site seems to be able to read the BOA minutes or listen to the "cub" reporters now -where were you then????
10:48, thank you, thank you, thank you! You said it all in a time line that the "I didn't know what I voted for" crowd will have a hard understanding, but the truth is the facts were all there, they just were not interested enough to read them.
Either that or it is a case of DUD!
It should have been on the ballot and it wasn't. Why not?
Also please name the newspapers and articles written to the public where a new police facility was discussed at these meetings, since I assume the news media were there to report back to their editors and write their columns.
One alderman who was on the board that I spoke with at that time told me that the mayor and board discussed the police facility many times, but it wasn't generally known to the public.
Every date and discussion you mentioned were at in-house meetings or work sessions. So being a previous board of aldermen member as you obviously ARE, these are not newspaper articles.
I don't care about memos and in-house discussions or discussions at board meetings. We have already established that not many people went to board of aldermen meetings.
Tell me what newspapers had articles in them telling us about a new police station or shut up.
If you can show me specific articles from the Post Dispatch, and local newspapers, other than one article in the Call in August, 2002, I will stand corrected and I will shut up.
Also while you are at it, tell me why it wasn't in the information that was passed out by the Neighborhood Watch people and not mentioned in that memo to them that was shown in a previous comment?
Tell me why it wasn't specifically stated in the two ordinances? After all these are official documents just like the ballot.
If you can, you will be happy and so will I.
Maybe one reason residents didn't come to meetings is because we had to listen to Kelleher screaming at Miquel and calling him a "snake in the grass" and Trueblood slamming his hands down and walking off the dais when he was upset about something. Two big shots who were so far above everybody else. Every time I went to a board meeting, I was on the edge of my seat never knowing when the next screaming match was coming.
Doesn't say much about Fagan who is suppose to maintain order. He just let the fighting go on and on.
I know that you are tired of me as much as I am tired of you but we seem to have our strong-headed beliefs in common.
Thanks.
I fail to see anything but comic adventure AND A GOOD BIT OF SOUR GRAPES FROM ONE UNHAPPY EX-POLITICIAN in all these postings about what was available and what was not regarding the police facility. The postings go on and one about the money being put into different accounts and people being fired and lawsuits and audits and mismanagement of funds and lack of attention to detail by voters. Bottom line: This astute poster should recall who began to notice sinking revenues, empty stores, bad streets, etc. and certainly had advance notice on the state of the city. Thus, HOW IN THE NAME OF HEAVEN COULD THEY EVEN CONSIDER PUTTING ANYTHING ON A BALLOT REGARDLESS OF HOW IT WAS WORDED, WHICH WOULD EVEN CONSIDER A 14.5 MILLION DOLLAR STRUCTURE WHEN THE CITY WAS ON THE BRINK OF A 2.5 M LOC. Who is calling who stupid!
How could any "Connections" going out even try to pass this idea along when it was so obviously a pipe dream (considering the fiscal facts)? So much for the worst deception this city has ever seen.
Argue all you want. People try to trust their BOA and in long past years have usually been able to. That BOA tried to pull a fast one hoping people would trust that their elected officials had integrity and would not foist on them their pipe dreams of a larger than life facility. Instead they destroyed all faith the residents had and made skeptics out of us all. Clearly when this miserable blogger tried to place blame on the people he was reaching for the moon. Since then, as you see, this numnut and his perception of past glory have diminished. Now, we have found our voice and he - just can't bear it. There simply is no way around a deliberately misleading worded ballot. This is why we hire a city attorney. Sadly, this particular city attorney doesn't even know the rules surrounding the Sunshine Law, and how to vote at secret meetings - why would anyone think he would be able to verify proper wording on a ballot? But then, I think we all know the answer to that one - don't we?
I guess you don't understand the word "extension". If the ballot language was changed to read specific capital improvements, there would be no Extension of the tax. Did the original wording of the capital improvement fund tax ballot list only streets?
That's just like the service tax. If the businesses are "grandfathered", the tax has to remain the same as they are paying now. Can't change the amount they are currently paying.
4:42 PM. 10/13 Whew! I am glad someone came to my rescue and can also reinterate my comments.
It seems however that 8:27 PM STILL doesn't COMPREHEND the wording of the original ordinance that the EXTENTION in 2002 was based on, WHICH I SHOWED (WORD FOR WORD) UNDER THIS ARTICLE AT 4:49 PM 10/10/07.
NOW HERE THIS: The original ordinance in 1993 says nothing about a 14 MILLION DOLLAR POLICE FACILITY AND THE WORDING SAYS CAP. IMPROVEMENT TAX.
THE EXTENTION OF THAT TAX PASSED IN 1993, CALLED FOR AN EXTENTION OF THAT CAP. IMP. TAX TO BE VOTED ON IN AN ELECTION IN 2002. NO WORDS MENTIONED ABOUT A 14 MILLION DOLLAR POLICE FACILITY. WHY CAN'T YOU GET IT.
Then you go from that to the service tax which is an altogether different thing.
Please read again 4:49 PM 10/10/07. I agree with the
blogger at 4:42 PM 10/13
Ok,so what are you going to do about this great miscarriage of justice?
I not sure what the 12:39 blogger wants to do, but I want to make sure this never happens again.
Furthermore, I don't think it was a "great miscarriage of justice" as you put it, but I think the words "and the construction of a new police facility" could have been put on the ballot and the ordinance.
Ok - some one asked what was the original wording on the Capital Improvement Tax. Does anyone know? If it just stated Capital Improvements, without outlining any particular project; why on earth would the voting of the extension include reference to the proposed police facility?
because a new building or the improvement of a building is a Capital Improvement!!
I am also curious if the original Capital Improvement Tax voted on mentioned any specific "improvements". Otherwise this "why didn't we know it was to build a police palace" just doesn't cut it. It would have been considered a Capital Improvement project.
Oops, I guess I left off the part of including the police building on the ballot language. Can't change the language to extend the tax if the wording is changed.
9:43 PM Read exact wording under Oct. 10, 2007 at 4:49 PM. It has exact wording of the ordinances and the ballot language.
9:56 PM 10-14 AND 10:58 10-14 ---Because ONE OF YOU OR BOTH OF YOU have been ALDERMEN, I am sure you are more apt to understand that a cap. improvement means a new building.
But you are saying the we laymen should understand that it means new police facility. When propaganda goes out stating PROPOSITION S - FOR SAFETY AND STREETS, you expect us to read between the lines AND KNOW THAT IT MEANS NEW POLICE BUILDING. WRONG! YOU HAVE MISLED US and you can't tell me any different.
You just won't budge off of your perch to even suggest even just a little, that sufficient material to show us what you meant was not out there.
If you did such a good job at publicizing a new police facility, why did so many of us sign the petition against it? No answer have I received yet on this one and I have asked several times.
I ask you to give me NAMES AND DATES OF NEWSPAPER ARTICLES, IN COMMUNITY PAPERS AND THE POST DISPATCH AND ALL YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SHOW ME IS ONE IN THE CRESTWOOD CONNECTIONS WHERE IT SAYS POLICE FACILITY. You just keep ramming down our throats how inept we are. If you feel you were not wrong in its publicity, you should at least feel you were partially at fault and went along WITH THE CA who wanted his own dynasty.
If you read a capital improvement budget in the budget books you will see that your basic capital improvements are all about improving our streets, sidewalks, repairs to existing building and many needed repairs or purchases like a new dump truck. AND YEAR AFTER YEAR, WE SEE THIS AND ONLY THIS. SO WHEN YOU DON'T STATE A BRAND SPANKING NEW 14 MILLION DOLLAR POLICE STATION TO THE PUBLIC WHO NEVER SEES A BUDGET BOOK, WE THE "IDIOTS OF CRESTWOOD" BELIEVE SURE WE WILL GIVE MORE TAX MONEY TO "IMPROVE" WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE -AND UNLESS YOU TELL US DIFFERENT, THE RESIDENTS BELIEVED IT TO BE THE STATUS QUO YOU ARE SPEAKING OF.
TIM TRUEBLOOD, THIS SOUNDS LIKE YOU AND IF IT IS, STOP DEFENDING THE RING LEADER WHO CREATED THIS AND ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE BOARD THAT WERE FOOLED BY HIM. THIS WAS HIS STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT BY NOW, I AM SORRY YOU FEEL THAT ME AND OTHERS ARE THE DUMB BUNNIES THAT SHOULD BE SHAMED.
BUT I WILL NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS BELIEVE WE WERE NOT MISLED OTHERWISE WE WOULD HAVE NEVER PETITIONED TO STOP IT.
AND IF YOU REALLY FEEL THAT WE THAT SIGNED THE PETITION ARE A BUNCH OF "JERKS", PLEASE DON'T RUN FOR OFFICE AGAIN BECAUSE I WOULDN'T WANT A MAYOR OR ALDERMAN WHO THINKS SO LITTLE OF HIS CONSTITUENCY.
THANKS.
"12:25 PM, October 15, 2007"
No the post was not written by a past alderman, just an imformed citizen.
And writing in capital letters? You really need to take some "happy pills" or something to keep your blood pressure in line.
I guess it is ok for you to feel mislead but I doubt that you believe that the past BOA were mislead regarding the budget and missing $1+mil dollars???
I guess you select what you want to believe or not to believe. It's a free country......believe what you want.
12:25
I believe we have $3 million in cash reserves and there fore should have our property taxes reduced by the Mayor and his Ways and Means Committee, NOW!!!!
What does it matter to you who posts what, you haven't the nerve to sign your name?
3:35 Give me the HAPPY PILLS pleaseeee.
3:35 Thanks you for your reply. I really do appreciate your comments.
I put my words in capital letters because I have been saying the same things on this blog about the issue of the cap. imp. sales tax for weeks on this blog, and you and others seem to answer by going in a different direction and have never answered my questions.
Capitalizing letters was just my way of trying to highlight things I felt were important. I didn't know however, that it was going to be used against me.
Also, you are wrong, very wrong, I do feel that the board of aldermen members were all misled as well the residents. But get any of them to admit it, is another thing. I very definitely feel that they were misled and misguided. But no one is willing to come forward and say it.
There was a lot of misguided and vague information given to the board by the previous CA who was suppose to be steering the board and the residents into the proper direction. It was up to him to get the correct PR out about something so expensive and hugh as a new police facility especially in light of the fact that we had no money.
My problem is with those who confuse "residential stupidity" with "very limited publicity" regarding an extremely expensive new police station, when the people in Crestwood were purposely confused by the omission of the definitive words like "building a 14 million dollar police facility" on anything they read. That is all I am saying.
Someone on this blog keeps blaming the residents and harping on it until it becomes an obsession and I keep hopelessly trying to make that person at least try to understand what we residents were told and were not informed about.
In-house meetings, and one blurb mentioned in one Crestwood Connection is not enough to convince me. Stating it was in ALL newspapers is balony and no one has been willing to tell me which newspapers said new police facility. That's what I have a problem with.
If we have to all go to BOA meetings to get the truth, that's pretty bad and is not a good excuse. But somebody seems to think it's a good excuse to blame us for not knowing about this police facility.
So, no I don't need happy pills. I am just really sorry that those who keep accusing residents of not paying attention, doesn't realize that there were no visual aids screaming out at us so we knew what was really going on. And I am very sure this "clown" isn't going to stop his tactics.
I have tried my best to make him/her understand the issue from our point of view, but he/she is too happy making a fairly large bunch of residents look foolish.
That's all.
If the ballot language was unclear and left out the minor detail that what voters were approving was a 14.5M $ Police facility AND all voters were supposed to be clairvoyant and read between the lineS, then one can only surmise this was step 1 in the Great Divide. The given is this ballot passed without clarity. Not all residents are civic's majors or know the difference between Cap. Expenses and the General Fund. But I'm guessing in light of the financial facts, they would not have approved the 14.5M$ building. Especially since it would have immediately become collateral for a LOC needed to pay the electric bill, not unknown to some on this integrity challenged BOA. How on earth could these officials face the public and the employees? What good is a new building when the bills are unpaid, salaries become stagnent and residents are clearly not represented? And our business community senses doom.
If you had read the description of the Police Chief's planned office, alone, you would have not believed the size and enhancements. That and his BMW Plan would have iced the dynasty for the pretenders of the throne, along with such as the $1500.00 desk chair purchased for the Mayor.
Wouldn't you think if the former CA and finance officer were moving figures around as subterfuge (or so accused) and were let go when this became fact, plus the fact that the financial picture was grim and grimmer due to shrinking sales and empty stores, and ahead was 2 audits which ultimtely proved mismanagement of funds, and streets were in need of repair and the police fleet was ageing, and the legal bills (undocumented) were off the planet; that keeping up this subterfuge in order to keep the police facility going was no more than the work of people on this blog whose fantasy was qwashed and who constantly nastify and twist all their posts. People, who had their plan, happened, would have left us with little chance to keep our city services, our head above water, and our stores open.
Up the road when some on this BOA continued to insist that architects make chageouts, we had a big citizen meeting and discussed the matter and I heard no one in the large audience say let's do it! Rather I heard a bunch of aggravated residents say in no uncertain terms that we could not afford it. But, to no avail. The BOA majority who worked in locked step voted to approve a lease to rent space at the plaza to move all the city offices there while the construction was going on. In no way can it be said this was on behalf of residents of the City of Crestwood. This, then, was proof to me that the gig was still on the front burner. And it was proof the whole thing was a PLAN!!!
With this knowledge, a citizens group collected signatures from residents to stop the whole thing. Ah, people power! It was not a problem getting those signatures and the building died. But not before lots of money had been spent on archtiects, attorneys, etc. So, officials with a foreign agenda won the ballot battle but lost the war.
Crestwood faces financial challenges. Politics still waits furtively behind the curtains to settle imaginary scores. It would be good to know from one report to another what EXACTLY is our financial status. We have had far more than enough of wool pulling to suit us. Residents want the bare facts. We want the CA to tell the straight story. We want to know exactly what measures are being taken to bring us into financial stability. Who is being hired, what do they do at city hall? Are we getting the most bang for our buck? Are our aldermen interested only in taking sides, or can we hope for unity? And are we as voters and taxpayers versed on TIF's, CID's and TDD's?
Are we as voters and taxpayers willing to realize that everyone up at city hall WORKS FOR US?
Frankly, most of us are sick of the politics when they rise above more important issues. Times here are rough right now. Those of you who really think that 14.5
M$ expense was a-okay and the ballaot language was straight forward and who spend so much time bloviating about THIS administration really are proving that their hearts are not really in the right place. Of course, you can keep it up. It's everybody's blog thanks to Mr. Ford. But I notice you are not at the meetings and you don't sign your name, so what you are doing is crying over all that spilled milk, which makes it look like you are indeed an ex-official or his wife trying to cope with his conscience. If you are that well informed resident who thinks they have all the answers, and one of them is to constantly and negatively demean all that the city could be and keep our property values and our neighborhoods in a bad light, then you have reached a side of the tracks this town simply does not have.
I think the sinking financial picture and revenue loss was proof enough to those sitting aldermen that a new facility was not in the books. There was enough doubt and enough disorder (Mayor resigning, Dept heads fired, and lawsuits galore) to advise against this expenditure at this time. Nothing could have been more clear than it was time to put on the brakes.
I so appreciate the last two comments and I certainly applaud your wise words. When you look back on everything that happened regarding the cap. imp. issue, the people of this community finally had the last word with that petition. We said loud and clear once the truth had finally been told that we were not buying your 14 million dollar police fiasco. Had you been open and above board from the beginning, we could have killed and buried this insane idea from the start.
Thanks again, to the last two bloggers. Perfect!
Great, now that your souls have been massaged, how about doing something about this miscarriage of the ballot box!!! Start a petition drive to have the extension of the sunset for the Capital Improvements Tax rolled back to it's original date. After all, with the news from C/A Myers that the City will have over $3 million in cash reserves, why should this sunset be extended, the City no longer needs the money! Right??
2:57 blogger
As I recall, wasn't it you who did not elect to extend this to the date it ultimately ended up at?I do recall some contention/debate on this matter. Maybe it was TF.
As for massaging souls. Well, I'm not really sure why throwing in this barb was necessary. Not really all that grownup nor condusive to what we need right now in our city. Personally my soul is in good shape. How about yours?
Besides, if you want the tax rolled back to its original date because you believe this to be a sound idea, you start the petition drive. Good government takes good ideas. If that is what yours is - go for it!
As for no longer needing the money. Here's an answer you can get for us. If we have $3M in cash reserves, why haven't all 8 aldermen roped and tied the CA down and beat the facts out of him. Enough vascallating. Where is it? This is serious Dejavu!
Not only do we need a new City Attorney, never have we ever had so dire a need for a financial officer who knows what the heck he is doing. Not a bunch of newbie interns, and a CA whose financial light has dimmed. We are a small city who needs expertise right now. We do not need a traffic director accumulating stars for a resume. We could also use an update on the progress of the Development lady hire. Does anyone know the names or positions or job descriptions of the crew at city hall. Ask the CA this while you are at it. Then, fill us all in. This way we will all be on the same page.
So you are not really that upset that the sunset was extended, you just don't feel you were told enough about it by the ballot langue, right?
So it's really ok with you that the voters were misled into passing the extension, cause if they had know what the money was going for they wouldn't have passed it, right?
So what the H*LL is your beef?
12:04 PM The "beef" never was being against voting for cap. improvements, we were against calling a new building costing 14 million dollars a capital improvement which the ballot failed to tell us.
We were OK with the monies being used for what department heads need to either replace things like dump trucks, police vehicles, equipment and things you included in the budget books under capital improvements.
A 14 million dollar police facility could never be included in the budget because it is an item over and above the amount that the city could budget for. That's why when someone called this police facility a capital improvement it was misleading.
You can go back to the city and ask the city clerk to show you copies of budget books which include capital improvements department heads wanted included in their budgets like street repairs and sidewalk replacements, etc. You will never see anything that costs millions and millions of dollars cause that would swallow the whole D-- budget the city lives off of for over a year.
That particular issue is what the people were opposed to. You are a real strange dude! I think you are on some kind of drug or you drink all day. You just keep harping on this and you are totally out of line and everybody has been telling you that.
Get yourself a hobby or go to your local bar and bitch to the local barflies.
Good Grief you are pathetic.
Let me voice my beef! Okay! Here it is:
The mere fact that a misleading ballot was presented to the voters and you actually thought voters should have been able to translate this vote into a 14.5M$ facility. How on earth did this become a feasibility?
The mere fact that any governing body anywhere would even "think about" this plan for a 14.5M$ facility with an empty bank account, and a bizillion lawsuits in the wings.
The mere fact that you are so unhinged that it didn't happen that you had to call all those who had their hands under the table to apologize. AHWWW!
Get a grip! There is no defense for this situation. A town this size either lives within its means and learns a lesson from the above or it is absorbed by St. Louis County. Period.
Is that what you want?
Taxes for county provided services are less than other municipalities such as Kirkwood or Webster. Why is Crestwood keeps trying to keep the property tax low since there is such a major decrease in sales tax income to pay for the services?
Yes, Crestwood is a bargain. But that will soon disappear as our property taxes will most probably go up. You have to pay for good services, and that is what we are getting in Crestwood.
However, the BIG question is this:
Do the citizens of Crestwood trust city hall with their money?
When it comes to most tax increases, it is my humble opinion that voters look for accountability and results.
Any thoughts?
7:58 PM Oct. 17th I so agree with your comments. The problem is the "clown" you are speaking of is putting his inept viewpoints under every article on this blog. He has argued his point about the usage of the ballot language so many times on this blog but still claims how much he "hates" the blog and everyone who uses it!!!!
My question to him which he still has not answered is since we are so very, very broke in Crestwood, had we built this 14 million dollar police station, this, too, would probably have had to be put up as collateral with the bank to save the city.
What would we be doing now if we had gone through with it's construction?
The person is literally spending his whole day boozing it up or taking narcotics to keep repeating this but never gives us one good reason to back up his statements.
I would like to call everyone who signed the petition to stop the police facility and tell them all, that there is a goofball on this blog who thinks we are a bunch of idiots when, had it not been for us, we would all be in deep do-do with trying to maintain a state of the art police station.
Heck 4 years ago we didn't even have enough money to buy the fire department a brand new fire truck, we had to buy a "used" one.
Thanks.
3:00 so call every person who signed the petition, at least you would be doing something constructive. Oh, and by the way, didn't I see you at the AA meeting in Fenton last week?
Your very welcome
Glad you are attending AA meetings, maybe some day when you are dried out you will change your attitude.
916
bet you know all about "drying" out, don't you?
Sounds to me like the AA meetings are up at city hall where the money is being dried out! Does anyone know the status? It seems to change by the day. Apparently it is not our C. Administrators area of expertise nor anyone else's up there. This is a very serious matter, folks. I don't see how we can go a step forward until we get the story and it stays the same for over a day. If I were the BOA, I would be totally freaked out. How can they govern without the facts? Perhaps this CA should come to terms with his inadequasies. Otherwise, the residents might have to once again take things into their own hands. For sure, it appears to be time to call him on this. I don't feel we should be in the dark another single day. Whose town is this anyway? Haven't we had enough of this? Isn't it time to get a grip?
A city, it would seem, is only as strong as its Chief Financial Officer and apparently we ain't got one.
Don't you think it is time we stepped outside the box and brought in someone (financial pro) from the outside to lock himself in a room for a month and get to the bottom of our city's financial status??? Cut out those company cars and any other exorbitant perks and let's face some facts. Sometimes one has to rob Peter to Pay Paul. This sounds like one of those times.It is beginning to feel like the dark days of secrecy that prevailed in earlier days.
Think about it. About step 1 in how to get some straight answers. This vaguery is not in the least working for me. How about you?
P.S. Another thing to look into might be staffing. Don't be so quick to blame everything on the elected officials up there. They seem to be hamstrung by lack of info from CA and C Attorney. And this is what it takes to lose your city.
4:52 PM
Somebody should suggest a Town Hall Meeting with the Mayor, CA, BOA, Dept. Heads and Financial Person present.
Someone should be in charge of it and allow us to ask questions. We'll give them ample time to prepare with charts, graphs or any other kind of visual aids showing us exactly where the state of the city is financially.
We should be made aware of where the money is, where it is going, and explain everything so we can understand. That is the only way to show us that they are not holding back on us or keeping things from us. It's called one on one communication.
It isn't going to get us anywhere if we keep playing guessing games on this blog, when nobody really knows anything. Almost everything on this blog is pure speculation.
Then everybody ends up getting angry with each other and we are almost all afraid to sign our names for fear of ridicule by some of the smart mouths who comment.
I am just as much to blame for getting upset as others, but we should all remember that we are all wanting the same thing. The best interest of our city for all residents.
One last thing, if you think that one man who is mayor is going to be able to pull this city together by himself, you may as well be waiting for "superman".
Whether you cast your vote for this mayor or for another one, you are just wishful thinking folks if you think these problems are going to go away "short term".
It doesn't matter who gets the "stinkin job" as mayor, hiring good people to assist a mayor, hiring good employees and paying them an honest wage and getting people with good knowledge has to be forthcoming. That isn't easy to do and requires a lot of hard work.
I hope and pray whoever gets in office will realize that unless we have a big increase in property tax in order to get good people to work and stay in Crestwood, is the only thing that will keep us alive and well.
Sales tax has carried us long enough. It's time for everyone to roll up their sleeves and pitch in to get our city back.
If the mayor or anybody else thinks it is necessary to keep us uninformed,
poster 4:52 I am going to agree with everything you just said with this addition: If you were to get a tape of the WAYS & MEANS meeting of last Wed. and listen to it you would hear why the BOA IS FREAKING OUT!
Just listen to what the Mayor said and then tell this blog what you think the stumbling block is that's preventing the BOA from knowing what the facts are.
If you really want to get a grip on what is going on you are going to have to ask Miguel what happened at that meeting, and hope he is brave enough to tell you the whole story.
Ask Bland what name the Mayor calls the C/A behind his back. Ask Roby to tell you the truth about why the extra $30G for legal costs in 2008.
You'll have to do this in private cause I doubt any of them will give you the whole story at the meeting.
Poster 7:42, I agree with most of what you said but would add this for you to think about.
1.Why haven't the cuts the Mayor said could be made before a tax increase been made?
2. why buy 2 new cars when we know we will have a greater drop in sales tax next year? Even if it is in this yrs budget, shouldn't we be saving all we can now?
3. why hasn't a tax increase been put on the agenda for a BOA meeting NOW, to start talking about a tax increase on the ballot in '08?
4.You know, time is running for items to be put on the April'08 ballot, like a tax increase, which means the next time is August '08 for any increase to be effective in 2009. Why the delay?
Poster 7:59 PM
Why the delay? The mayor has stated that there are more cuts to be made. Why haven't we heard about them yet? Time does not stand still.
Last time instead of addressing major cuts, the mayor got Crestwood a high priced "loan". The cheaper bond solution was "bad".
I don't think the BOA or the public really knows where the budget (cash) stands. What I can't understand is why Crestwood would need $3mil in the nonexpendable fund. In previous years citizens were provided with the monthly activity of the line of credit. Does the CA think that we need $3mil for a line of credit (internal)? That is kinda of scary.
He must or some of that cash could be voted on by the BOA to be used for expenses such as the communication equipment replacement/upgrade. The ordinance now states that monies used throughout the year would need to be "paid back" (doubt that one!). They could amend the ordinance.
9:51 PM I agree with what you have said and I agree with putting a tax increase on the ballot NOW.
But please don't tell me however that our new board of aldermen can't get things done. I am so hoping and praying that new fresh faces would begin to get something off of dead center, as we clearly didn't have a hands-on board before.
Cuts, cuts, cuts. Balony! What is the CA doing? Make him accountable. Our previous CA had his way and didn't tell us much of anything, but if he did, it was vague at best. That board of aldermen and mayor let him get by with way too much. Don't let that happen again, please board of aldermen, I beg you.
Here's what I think! With the previous administration, we had dust accumulate under the rugs and furniture, and it was allowed to stay there collecting dust mites and what have you.
Now, let's clean house and get that dust and dirt out in the open and flush it out by putting these people on call for some answers.
Let's all have a town hall meeting and ask these questions to the CA, and the mayor and I want to hear what the ways and means committee has to say in front of us, the residents.
Let's pull those carpets up and shake them out. The only way we are going to get answers to our questions is by one on one communications with the people who hold all the cards.
Let the elected and appointed officials know that we are tired of being treated like a bunch of muchrooms, left in the dark and fed a lot of crap!!!!
Surely someone on that board has the moxie to get a meeting started. If the mayor or CA doesn't like it, if all 8 board members put the pressure on them, maybe they will do it.
When residents feel they are being left out of the loop, that's what makes us angry. Just like the minimal communication they received with the cap. imp. sales tax extension which was suppose to be a 14 million dollar police facility. Why do you think the petition to stop it passed? And there were lots of people angry about it, no matter what some people say.
Please, call a special meeting specifically to speak with the residents and make it just for them. Don't keep things from us and expect us to have tons of time to research or read things when some of us don't even have time to go to the restroom. People have lives to live and kids to raise.
Many families in Crestwood have both spouses working, trying to take care of small children, trying to keep them schooled and trying to keep up with their after school activities. They read on the run, eat on the run and communicate on their cell phones while driving their cars.
That's why we elect people to office. We cannot do it all. That's why we have them.
I am glad I started the "accountability" blog just earlier which started the cogs moving. Because ... I am obviously not alone! Lots of very good feedback and thoughts this evening. I mean that. A true sense of community and no nonsense blogs.
Think it really is time to hold some feet to the fire. Not just because of worry over finances, but worry over facts, accountability, bottom line, truth, and the apparent lack of talent needed to right the apple cart. Namely, lack of openess. We surely don't want a repeat of past administrations. If so, we are lazier and less caring that I had thought.
We probably should not push the tax on the ballot issue until we get the answers to "what the heck is going on." I am beginning to feel like if we don't intervene, we are facing a Dicksonian future. If the BOA and the CA do not think they need to put forth the facts as they stand, well, you know what Sunset Hills voters did to their last BOA. In its entirety.
Indeed, we need to at the least get together and work together to request a fact sheet from city hall - One that won't get revised before the next meeting, and the following meetings.
We cannot blame all our problems on a shopping center. We all know it is a lot more than that. With the new laws oon TIF's going into action soon, let's don't go and get hyper and plan for legal bills. That Plaza is just going to have to be Westfield's dilemna. They aren't going to give it away.
Twice residents went to bat for the city. Once to stop a 14.5$ police facility and a second time to prevent an illegal Charter Board from passing charter issues which had no substantive merit. This means residents did what the BOA did not do. Is it time to do it again? It can happen. You saw it happen. It really is time to consider putting a firm and united face on our fears. If our BOA does not want nor care that they may or may not be being hoodwinked, we can at least suggest it or support those on the board who can relate to our concerns and put some heat on things.
Guess it all depends on how concerned you are and your willingness to address the ones in charge.
Think about it. Before it gets worse.
Having a town hall meeting is an excellent idea! I propose we put toghether a list of potential moderator's and present it at a BOA meeting.
I think we want the board, the department heads, the Mayor, the City administrator, and the City attorney present to answer these questions.
I would also propose we have it on a Saturday morning so everyone who want's to attend may do so.
We can do it in a Q & A format from the floor with the questions being asked by individual residents, and the modirater's maintiainig the decourm, and time.
If they can't agree to this, well we need to go shopping for some fresh faces on the dias!
Tom Ford
I agree with the last three bloggers. It is time to call a meeting where the residents can get answers.
I don't think people realize the responsibilities that go along with being a good alderman. They took an oath as well as the mayor. The are suppose to report to us as much as we need to tell them our needs.
If a family doesn't communicate with each other, everyone ends up going off in all directions. So should it be with city leaders and their constituents. If there is no communication we can count on, they should have just stayed with their day jobs.
That is the difference between good leaders and bad ones. Almost as important as a good mayor is an excellent CA because that should be the first thing he learns is communication skills; not power like our last one.
People in this city need to know and we can start it with a Town Hall Meeting.
Post notices all over Crestwood and get notices in ALL newspapers stating the reasons and the criteria for the meeting. I will bet that there will be standing room only if we do it. Everybody in this city is on the edge of their seats because we have been overlooked for too long. Apathy is rampant because we have no strong leadership.
Mayor and board, let's prove we have strong leaders in Crestwood and people are wrong. Let's start with a positive town hall meeting.
You will be surprised at how much better everyone will feel because it will be a "positive" and not a "negative". We will know the problems and feel like we can be part of the solution.
11:02 Here is the problem as I see it, regardless of how we got here, the city needs more money to keep current levels of service. It is either more money or less services.
That decision is ours the voters to make, no one else has that right or responsibility. The elected officials of our City now know that the increase in property tax to pay for the bonds aka "notes", was not enough. Bad leadership caused that.
Now it is time for the same elected officials to show us if they have learned a lesson by moving NOW to have on the ballot in April of '08 a increase property tax. Failure to do so will but nothing but pure politics on our elected leaders part.
If the increase is on the ballot in April '08 and if the voters turn it down, then the elected leaders of our city will know with out a doubt that the voters want a reduction in current services. If the increase passes, then the leaders will know the voters of the city want to keep our services.
But, it is our call to make, no one else has that right or responsibility. Demand your Alderman grow a set of man things and stand up to the Mayor and demand he either make cuts NOW or put on the ballot in April '08 a tax increase. We have till end of November to make this happen.
I agree with the previous poster, but how do we get the mayor and board to do it?
If the mayor and CA are still thinking of making cuts, they are not thinking about a property tax increase. If they are trying to increase commercial development which is all I ever hear, do they still have enough where-with-all to put a tax increase on the ballot?
I just can't undertand how they feel that just increasing our commercial corridor is going to get the job done by bringing in more sales tax.
The residents need to be taken by the hands and spoon fed some mathematics. The mayor, board and CA are the only ones who can get the show on the road.
We could do it, if we have until April 2008. With the right combination of assistance from a committee of residents plus the numbers from the CA and the people on the Ways and Means Committee, we could jump start this city again. But, I am not so sure we can convince the CA or the mayor.
The board of aldermen are going to have to put their heads together and make this happen.
I understand that Frank Meyer is pretty head strong and that the mayor has a hard time with him. If that is true, someone needs to remind Roy that he and the board of aldermen still run the city and stand their ground. Trouble is, Frank Meyer hasn't been in Crestwood long enough to understand the history of our sales tax issues and where all of our monies have gone for the last 20 years. But the mayor and many aldermen know the history.
Somebody on that board of aldermen is going to have to make the first move. Once they are convinced that our city cannot sustain itself unless we increase our taxes, then the other things can follow.
Please help us members of the board of aldermen. Jerry, Richard, Chris and Jack, come on. You are smart guys. Probably the rest of you that I don't know are just as smart. Make it happen. The future of this city is in your hands. We are almost out of time.
Well, I got one answer back from an Alderman concerning a town hall meeting.
This one said we should "all get off our computer's and come to a BOA meeting!"
He further stated we do not need any more meetings, because we don't attend the ones they have now!
Well, that's one out of eight, so there is still a chance they will go for it, if not, well plab "B!"
Tom Ford
9:09 am Tom, this alderman is just copping out, that's all.
First of all, he is saying "shame on us for having a blog". Maybe because he doesn't like what we say?
He doesn't want to put himself out is the problem. The residents can all go to the board of aldermen meetings, but the mayor and aldermen are the ones who have to make it work. Why do we have to be the ones who initiate it? Build it and we will come!
Sounds like this guy wants to do nothing but hammer on you and I because we talk on the blog. The blog is obviously not close to his heart and comments made have probably not coincided with what he thinks and feels.
Town Hall meetings that we have had, have always been crowded. This guy just doesn't want to be questioned. Too afraid that maybe he will be found guilty of not doing his part.
And if this town goes under, he will blame us for not going to board of aldermen meetings. Rubbish!!!!!
Well, yes he is! I believe his problem is that in a simple Q & A session he wont be able to use the usual "flumery" they love so much up there!
Tom Ford
Tom,
The H#LL with Town Hall meetings, nothing gets done in them, it's not a BOA meeting where votes can be taken.
It's just a pacifier for us till it's too late to take any action, till after the closing date to file for mayor comes. We are being played for a sucker.
Why would I say that? Look at the agenda tomorrow night, another closed session about legal and personnel matters, guess what a town hall meeting would do for that? Nothing, that's what.
You still think the extra $30,000 in the budget for legal expense is cover expenses regarding Westfield and the Mall? If you do, I got a bridge to sell you.
4:40 PM blogger: I am positive I know what the $30,000,.00 is for, and no it's not the Mall!
Let me say this, the real reason for this need's to stay below the radar for a number of reasons.
You know the movie "A few good men" where Jack Nicholson said "you can't handle the truth?" Well,nuff said!
Tom Ford
No one seems to want to report on here about the Ways and Means meeting. No one knows where Twyla B. is? Another closed session coming up for legal etc. What are we a cash cow for employees who heard that they can sue and go! Let's hope this is only a fleeting thought on my part. But why do they have so many of these meetings???
If a Town Hall Meeting does not suit, lets chat about what would work best. If we are supposed to attend meetings, then aren't they supposed to have answers. Perhaps we need to get on the agenda and read a basic list of fair questions. Perhaps a different basic question addressed to each alderman who can then obtainn our answers and give the answer at the next meeting. That way, if they give these answers to us publicly, they will be sure the answer they obtain is true and one that will not come back and haunt them. It behooves us to find out to what degree we are in the red or in the black. Because it is our city and we, and probably our aldermen, are tired of the possibility that city hall is functioning in an inadequate manner and we want this fact repudiated or proven. How can I even consider a vote for a tax increase with vague and vascillating financials coming out of city hall? I just would want to send out a rescue squad before it's too late. That's all. Before the going gets too tough! I don't happen to think Aldermen should be reticent about laying the facts on the table to the CA; like this one ... WHAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE; THE ACTUAL BOTTOM LINE? If this is a problem, let's use that $30,000 for some outside financial expertise.Or get another audit.
And in the future of our city, let's make sure all our employees have a job description and the full qualifications and capability to fill it and have 6 months or more on probation to prove it. Then, I could begin to talk tax increase so they can be paid accordingly.
For my part, there are some aldermen on our board who I have the utmost respect for and surely it is a rough job sometimes, but right now we have national tough, county tough and Crestwood tough. Perhaps we can start change at the local level and work our way up.
I am tired of all the stuff at city hall that "needs to stay below the radar"!
What good is this blog if you Tom who now knows what is going on will not tell us? It is after all, our money, we are going to pay for it. If someone is suing us then we have a right to know. Just like the deal with the mayor a couple of guys ago, you have to share on this blog what you know or you are hiding from us, the voters, the truth. Did or did not the mayor say that the extra $30,000 was for the legal costs for the Mall? Now, who is lying, you or the mayor? Are you too going to fall on your sword for him? It's called lying to us, something he promised never to do and you are covering for him.
If you have to post it anonymous to protect your self from any personal legal action, but post it now, before the executive meeting tomorrow night.
Funny how this blog starts by Tom blasting Alderman Bland for something he accuses him of doing, yet has no problem with the Mayor lying to him and the rest of us. Real Funny.
8:14 PM blogger: So far the Mayor has not lied to me, so whats your point (if anything.) By the way, he did it, just ask him!
Tom Ford
7:51 PM blogger: Call your Alderman, ask him for the the TRUTH, and you will be as "informed" as the rest of us!
I have no idea why you count on one person to advise you of what is going on, but I will tell you that you do need to look for yourself!
Tom Ford
I guess he didn't lie to you when he said at a Ways and Means meeting the extra $30,000 was for legal expenses surrounding the mall? He just lied to the other members of the committee and those who read his quote in the paper.
So the question now becomes in your post of 5:46 10/22/07 you state
"I am positive I know what the $30,000,.00 is for, and no it's not the Mall!"
WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT THE $30,000??
8:32 PM blogger: Well bring your tail up to City Hall at 2:00 PM tomorrow, and we will both hear the tape of the meeting!
Then, you can comment all you want, until then, I find you without "portfolio!"
Tom Ford
This reminds me of that pass the orange game. Or is it pass the rumor game.
Got questions, pick up the phone and call your alderman. Or, go up to city hall and talk to the CA. This is what municipal office and offices are all about. More secrets and surprises we don't need. So count this attitude acceptable practice gained by experience.
This is not a John Grisham novel. It is a city that has a rug full of lumps, some left over from the last go-round. Time to get the vacuum out.
Tom how can you of all people accuse anyone of being without portfolio when by your own words you rarely go to BOA meeting and instead rely on "cub"reporters for your facts at what goes on at meetings? How can we trust you, when you will not tell us who told you what the $30000 is really for and what they told you it was for?
Hmmmmmm?
Don't tell us to go and ask our alderman, you already have asked for all of us. You have promised to listen to the tapes and report back to us, why are you wimping out now on this? After all, your blog is "most of the news with none of the paper". So report already!
Crestwood Independent said...
I am going to hear the tape this afternoon. I will advise all of you via this blog prior to the BOA meeting as I promised.
As far as attending the BOA meeting's goes, I can't hear a word they say no matter where I sit (half deaf,)so until they can get a new sound system.............
I think that's the reason some of us older folks don't go, why sit there and ask someone else what they said half the time?
The $30,000.00 qas I understand it was requested for POSSIBLE legal fees in conjuction with the economic development of Crestwood. The plaza would be covered by Westfield, so these POSSIBLE fees would be used for reviewing any and all contracts.
Now you all know what I know, and see, nothing nafarious, nor wicked at all. The Mayor asked for them so he wouldent have to go back to the board if it sould come up!
No lies told on any side that I can see (so far,) so find another rock to look under, as this is a non-story!
Tom Ford
Tom, you are missing something, the BOA should have to be contacted when the Mayor wants to spend money, the mayor is going around them with this statement. "All power lays with the BOA unless other wise noted". The mayor doesn't have the right to spend money without the BOA's ok!
With his plan the public would not know how the money was spent till after the fact. Is that what you really want?
12:26 PM blogger: I agree with you that ALL expenditures must go through the Board completly!
I was just tring to satisfy thoes who wanted to know what it was for. Please remember that this is a Ways and Means meeting only. I doubt this will ever pass muster at the Board meeting, but we shall see tonight.
We have a lot of fixing to do here, and this is just the tip of the ice burg, if you ask me!
Tom Ford
I am really getting tired of everybody being upset with issues, not realizing that the mayor and board of aldermen and the CA are the only ones who know the CORRECT answers to questions. Not everybody who has a view on this blog is correct. Maybe my view isn't so great either but here goes.
I can tell you that the Alderman who told Tom to go to boa meetings instead of holding a town hall meeting to get answers hasn't lived here for 40 years or he might think differently. Must be one of the Young one's.
Anytime I have attended BOA meetings, and I have attended quite a few, plus listened to minutes over and over again for many years, got no answers by standing up there and trying to set the record straight.
It's always "somebody will get back to you", and nobody does; or "we need legal advise from our city attorney on that", and nobody gets back to you; etc. and so on. Or even better, you get this blank stare like a deer looking into a flashlight.
To this day in time, we are still going through the same old, same old. The board of aldermen member that told Tom that "since residents don't come to the board of aldermen meetings to get answers, why have a town hall meeting" is young enough and intelligent enough to be a board member, but hides behind words that tell me he doesn't CARE enough to go the extra mile just like in the past.
Truth is, I don't even think the mayor or CA want a town hall meeting because there would be a full house and they would have to be accountable.
By the time a resident is allowed to talk at BOA meetings, everybody is ready to go home. That's what the $350 per month extra in their pockets gets us.
All we can be sure of, especially on this blog, is that people hear what they want to hear, don't hear the whole story on the issues, only repeat what others have said which is not always right on, twerps who want to cause problems, people using little knowledge and acting like they know it all.
This town is split in HALF and believe those who will make excuses and tell HALF-truths when it suits their HALF. They rub elbows with people who think they are the BIG SHOTS in town that are believable. Those residents who listen to them, repeat what they hear so they can sound like BIG SHOTS TOO. And that's how things get all screwed up.
So....go one on one with the people who run this city.
That's when we need to use some old fashion "interrogation" at a one-on-one meeting where "we don't have to wait" until the agenda says: OTHER BUSINESS.
You can wait until your bladder gets full, for the time comes for OTHER BUSINESS and the board is ready to call it a night.
Much of what you read on this blog, with the exception of a few people, is pure poppycock or hearsay or both.
4:39 It used to be that the citizens were allowed to speak to the board at the beginning of the meeting, has this been done away with by Roy?
I don't know who got rid of it being first on the agenda; but it isn't any more.
Look at the agenda sheet on the website and see what it says.
All I know is that I never got my chance to ask any questions or complain about things before everything else was done on the agenda.
Sorry to hear that, it was that way when Breeding and then Fagen were mayors, Roy did for a while cause the few times I went when he 1st took office, it was still done.
Wonder why he stopped doing that?
Call your aldermen and ask about the agenda and why the resident questions no longer are first on the agenda.
If the BOA does not welcome resident input and participation, why should they come to a meeting? If they are met with a glare or a stare, why go?
I frankly don't wish to see them paid their monthly salary if they don't want to hear from the ones paying it.
Now, since everyone on this blog knows that we have a dept head on leave after having only worked here a short time, and since we are looking for ways to conserve, and since everyone in this city deserves the answer to why this employee is absent - I think the answer should be forthcoming. Gosh, if the CALL doesn't know the answer, guess it is a dark secret. This is just one more secret that this city is enduring and so it is time to get the answer.......
4:49 PM I would surely hope that we would be told why T.Brown is on paid leave by now, but we haven't.
And the City of Crestwood will always do whatever they have to do to protect any its own officials if somehow this turns out to be something that happened to Ms. Brown in the work place.
And you may as well get use to it in this new century with many companies and government entities. Some seem to think just because they carry a big title in elected or appointed positions in this city and in other places too, that they can overstep their bounds and are above reproach when being taken to task for their misdeeds.
Terrorism will be all over the place in this century in the United States, as well as more child abuse, and more kidnapping. But also people will see more and more harrassment happening not only against women but men also, and it will be happening in the work place.
I remain skptical about T. Brown and the reason she left on paid leave. Mainly because if it was for a bad illness or death in the family, or any of the other countless normal life circumstances, we would have heard about it by now.
Good luck to you T. Brown.
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