Green Park un-happy with the Mehlville FPD!!!
When, and if you get the "paper" please note the article on the front page titled "MFPD statistics rebut reduced staffing claim" by Green Park officials!
The gist of the story is that the Green Park Mayor and all but two Aldermen sent a letter to Mr. Hilmer bemoaning the fact that their ambulance protection has dwindled as of late, and there not happy!
Mr. Hilmer has sent out some "statistics" in an attempt to prove this is not so, and he has garnered the full spin machine of the "paper" to back him up. Now we all know what "statistics" are don't we? In case you don't it's a group on numbers put together to benefit the side that put them together, plain and simple. For instance, you could say that you house was hit by a flash flood, and it was my fault. I, on the other hand can use the numbers to "prove?" you wrong, as it was outside a known flood plain, but you get the idea.
One thing is for sure though, Green Park is not happy, Mr. Hilmer thinks they wronged him, and the "paper" has ridden to the defense of the "Conservatives conservative" Mr. Hilmer!
This is just in time folks! Now more than ever you can see why we do not need this "Trojan Horse" at the gates of Crestwood!
Tom Ford
NO. 428
The gist of the story is that the Green Park Mayor and all but two Aldermen sent a letter to Mr. Hilmer bemoaning the fact that their ambulance protection has dwindled as of late, and there not happy!
Mr. Hilmer has sent out some "statistics" in an attempt to prove this is not so, and he has garnered the full spin machine of the "paper" to back him up. Now we all know what "statistics" are don't we? In case you don't it's a group on numbers put together to benefit the side that put them together, plain and simple. For instance, you could say that you house was hit by a flash flood, and it was my fault. I, on the other hand can use the numbers to "prove?" you wrong, as it was outside a known flood plain, but you get the idea.
One thing is for sure though, Green Park is not happy, Mr. Hilmer thinks they wronged him, and the "paper" has ridden to the defense of the "Conservatives conservative" Mr. Hilmer!
This is just in time folks! Now more than ever you can see why we do not need this "Trojan Horse" at the gates of Crestwood!
Tom Ford
NO. 428
posted by Crestwood Independent at 16:44
53 Comments:
Imagine that. Hilmer got an unsolicited letter from another entity that basically said the service he provides is sub-standard. Isn't that ironic? What goes around, comes around. Just remember that Boy Wonder!
The ambulance that is taken out of service at 7:30 pm does not only effect the residents of the City of Green Park but all of the taxpayers of the Mehlville Fire Protection District. This is another reason to keep the Crestwood Fire Department in tack and not to contract the services out to Mehlville.
It is so amazing how fast people jump negatively on something when it is not their brand of "I lika like this."
We have big expectations here in Crstwood, we tend to be spoiled. Apparently judgemental, as well. That is until the bottom line starts coming up. You know, the red one. Something always has to give. Streets, sewers, service, attitudes. Right now, I don't think it is all that majestic of us to unload on Mr. Hilmer(who I do not know from a hole in the ground) or try and find some knits to pick. How senseless. We have no idea whether these statements are rumors, truths, part of each or facts. We also do not have a clue to which degree we had better start worrying about the quality and continuation of our own services. I have read of good things done in Mehlville, good solutions, necessary solutions. Now this blog wants to come along and try to make a big noise about an offer made. A letter sent. An idea. No hammer here. An idea. This trigger happy poppycock being insinuated is so darned childish it makes me sick. We are not in a position to sound grand, friends. Not at all. What does not look so good now, is not welcomed, draws so much of your fire and ire, just could become a welcome compromise. Who the heck knows??? Best you critics and the fire fighters who want to put in their two bits just cross fingers and quit the incessant fault finding. Getting old, folks. Getting old. We still have a few more miles to go before we can sound grand again here in Crestwood. So, lets quit splitting hairs and be grown ups. In the meantime, adjust your attitudes. I fail to see any damage or big huge awful horrible fallout from getting a letter with a suggestion from Mehlville.
Keeping our Fire Dept. intact is a great idea. Keeping 2 Fire Departments intact, ours and Affton's, who protect our annexed section, is a bit expensive for a city of 4 sq. miles and 12,000 people. May want to stuff this in your pipe for a smoke. When you are short on funds, sub standard could very well 'go around and come around.'
6:14 PM blogger: Very nice, but your wrong! We are, and always will be in a position to control our own destiny!
Great words a lot of "Harumph" there, but what in the heck are you prepaired to do to keep our services if need be?
If your concern is more than you can bear, please show us the way, and by the way, it's not the MFPD!
Tom Ford
Control our destiny? Pleasse Tom, if that is the case, the "we" can make the parking lot full again at the Mall. Right?
6:14 PM Negative or positive discussion on this blog and/or expressed anywhere else, because of a letter from Mehlville is for everyone to judge for themselves.
But I don't think that people who have professed their negativity about Mehlville's invitation is anything more than pretty darn normal if you ask me. Why?
We in Crestwood are at a low ebb right now. We are afraid of loosing what we had as far as services, improvements and capital. So it stands to reason that we would also be afraid of loosing an excellent service provided by our Fire Dept. They have saved many lives in our city for many, many years. Had they saved yours, maybe you wouldn't be so anxious to give it up or not defend it or be just a little afraid of losing it.
Don't you think it is funny that Mehlville never extended this invitation to us before when things were going well for us? I do!
If we appear angry or upset, I think it is human nature. We are a city in crisis, and low and behold here comes Mehlville like a man on a white horse that wants to save us. You don't feel there may be an ulterior motive? You should at least think about the possibility.
I know what you are saying about people who state things that are not savory or may be a little biased, but I feel that some things on this blog are true. Everybody who makes a statement on this blog can't all be liars.
I would bet that some on this blog are the firefighters themselves who have to remain anonymous but know a lot more than we do.
But the best way we can be sure of what is stated, is to call Chief Kestler or visit him; he should be able to set you straight.
Police and Fire are two things I would never, ever want to give up and if we have to pay more in taxes to get it, I will be first in line.
Thank you.
How much of an increase in your taxes would you vote for to keep fire and police local?
That is the question!
12:08 PM I am not an accountant but the price should be based upon what the cost of living is, don't you think? I wouldn't vote for something that was "over the top". But whatever is fair! Let's talk turkey! If we compare what our tax rate is and what we have paid to Crestwood for the last 30 years, to other communities like Kirkwood and Webster who have their own Police and Fire, we have been really lucky because our tax rate is extremely low. Maybe it's time to up that amount. Bet we would still be low in comparison.
I don't know the exact numbers but heavens, I do know that I would be willing to pay more to keep what we have. After all, think about it, we pay more for everything than we did 30 years ago. My grocery bill has quadruplied in the last 30 years, hasn't yours? The last increase we had was merely a bandaid for a much bigger problem, but our aldermen were too afraid of making their constituents angry and suffer not getting re-elected to put it out there. Hopefully our new aldermen will realize that we have been reaping sales tax monies and living good at the hands of everyone who buys in Crestwood. Now we should be willing to take some money from our own pockets to make this city thrive again; maybe not thrive but put us back on our feet.
Thank you.
To 1:30 pm November 30,2007. I agree with your comments 100%. The citizens of Crestwood have to be realistic if they want to keep the excellent Fire and Police services.
6:57 PM blogger: Perhaps you don't understand "controlling." No we can't make the parking lot full, but we can make up the difference in tax monies by agreeing to pay more ourselves.
My friend the days of retail picking up our share of the cost's in Crestwood are about over. It's not just Crestwood though, all communities face the same problems.
There are several ways to "control our own destiny," the only question is what are you, and I prepaired to do?
Tom Ford
So Tom are you advocating a tax increase? If Roy and any other candidate for mayor wants to do what you think is right for the city, I would push them to do just that. How bout the April ballot?
HOW MUCH MORE WILL we be asked to pay to keep our own fire protection?
Do you think that is a figure that we should know now or after 1/15/08?
Tom,
Is there any way to post the ip addresses when someone makes a comment? I know some blogs and message boards do this. It would give a pretty good idea of how many different people actually post on this site. No disrespect, but I have a feeling that not that many do and the ones that do try to come off as several different people, answering their own posts. This site is a great tool but it is getting pretty ridiculous with some of the remarks about city employees on this site. I for one am ashamed to think that someone would bad mouth a police officer or firemen that serves to protect you. I want to keep what we've got and that includes the public works people who make sure are streets are plowed in the winter along with the many other wonderful things they do. I could care less if firemen are in a union, that is their right. I could care less if they backed Roy, Tom Fagan, Jim Robertson, Attilah the Hun, or the Wicked Witch of the West as long as they show up when I call 911. They were not the only city employees' that helped with his election (cops,public works, administrative staff)! Same goes for the police or any other city employee. As far as I'm concerned, if you have a gripe with an employee, go up to City Hall and contact the appropriate people. Just complaining on here shows how cowardly some people truly are. Believe me, if I have a gripe they are gonna here about it. I've done it before with past leadership and I will again if I have a problem. Here is an idea, CONTACT YOUR ALDERMEN! I'm laying down a challenge. I doubt it gets answered.
Thank You Tom!
P.S.
NO I AM NOT A FIREMEN, POLICE OFFICER, PUBLIC WORKS EMPLOYEE, OR ANY OTHER EMPLOYEE FOR THAT MATTER!
4:42 PM blogger: Well I do think a tax increase is going to be needed, and soon! Am I for it, NO (Reagan Conservitive,) however reality tells me it will have to happen.
The April ballot, or next week will be ok with me. However, first we need to know just where we stand, no sugar coating, no "if we," and no pie in the sky "bravo sierra," just the facts!
I think Mr. Myers, his assistants, and whomever it takes must come up with answere by January and present them at one of the town hall meetings. At that point I think we need the following Aldermen (Meguil,Foote, and Neider) to review the data, and advise us what's up!
Then it's up to someone up there to show the courage it takes to be a leader, and get the ball rolling.
Tom Ford
5:58 PM blogger: It very well may be possible, and your right about same person, different attitude posts.
Part of the reason I do not post the IP address is that the "brave souls" who wish to remain anonymous would never say a word. Too thin skined, afraid of getting their tail shot off, afraid of looking like a fool? You tell me.
One thing about doing this every day is that you can pick up certian writing style's, word's, and comment's that repeat themselves, and thus a pattern is formed.
I would bet I can tell you who the person might be by the time of day, and various things they say that were said in the past (but don't tell them!)
I will E-mail my server and ask them how to place the IP address on the post's, but I will tell you that I probebly will never do it for the reasons I stated above.
Tom Ford
5:58 pm I second your comments. Why? Because they are straight forward and make common sense.
However, if you try to explain your views and try to give your viewpoint and you sign your name on this blog, believe me, some people will have a field day with insults and that is no lie.
If you have worked for the City in the past, if you are a concerned citizen who attends meetings or if you express an opinion that is not to some people's liking, look out because somebody on this blog will "put you down" big time.
I do agree with what you have stated, except that I would never sign my name again. I tried that before and it is far too painful.
will no one answer this question, how much more in property taxes would you pay to keep your fire and police dept local?
How long should it take for our City Fathers to figure out how much increase in property tax we need to keep our fire dept?
Don't you think that if they were really doing their job they woud know already? After all, they know the rate of decline in sales tax income, and as any of us can do, they can see the half empty parking lots at the mall. Regardless of the Mehlville offer, they should have been working on this answer long ago
8:55 AM blogger: I will! I believe it may take as much as another .32 cents per hundred over the next two to four years to become fully recovered, and for the Plaza to renovate.
Therefore I would pay .76 per hundred until we get back up to speed (four years max.) How about the rest of you?
9:06 AM blogger: Agreed, but I think they know as we speak, how could they not?
Now is when we will see just who the real leaders are!
Gentlemen, were all adults here, we can stand the truth, we want the truth, and I believe were up for the task, whatever it may be!
Tom Ford
In listening to a few bloggers, I guess we can ask those important questions at the town hall meetings; i.e. tax increase, what would the increase be, and if a tax increase is necessary, do we want to take Mehlville's offer, have we told Mehlville yes or no.
What we speculate about, what we read in the papers and getting information second hand means nothing. Getting info one on one is better.
We cant wait till Jan, Feb, next year to find out. We need to know now if a tax increase should be on the april ballot, or if we should accept the offer from Mehlville. If you look at administrations income to budget in gthe 3rd quarter we are only 58% to goal, and that is with Dillards. You really think the 4th quarter is going to make it up? The there is the issue of counting govt. grants as income, bogus accounting if you ask me.
It sucks that I have to be anonymous but I have a family to feed and my job is important!
Before Hilmer/Stegman staged the coup Mehlville was THE best fire department in ST.Louis County. When an application process was started there were 200-300 applicants. They came from all the other fire departments to work here. We could take the 'Cream Of the Crop'!
Now---
We are lucky to get 50 applicants, some of the ones that are hired are not qualified as firefighters so they are sent to the Fire Academy at the tax payers expence and then they leave here after we train them to go to other departments! Unheard of 10 years ago! Some of the applicants refuse the position when it's offered to them! Nice work Arron and Bonnie.
4:26 P.M.
Don't feel sorry for you! Try being a county police officer making half of what the fireman make and not even close to benefits.
To 5:44 PM,December 4,2007.
A St. Louis County Police Officer with 15 years makes 63,677.00 per year (30.66 per hour) 40 hour scheduled work week. A Mehlville Firefighter with 15 years makes 68,000.00 per year (23.35 per hour)for a 56 hour scheduled work week. A St. Louis County Police Officer receives 30 days paid leave per year. A Mehlville Firefighter receives 12 vacation days and 8 sick days with a cap on amount of sick days earned. A St. Louis County Police officer receives 10 paid holidays and 5 double paid holidays.A Mehlville Firefighter receives 200.00 once a year for holiday pay no matter how many they work. A St. Louis County Police Officer has uniforms furnished and receives 300.00 per year maintance. A Mehlville Firefighter receives 500.00 per year for both uniform purchases and maintenance. A St.Louis County Police Officer has a non contributory defined benefit pension plan and can retire when their age and years of service reach 80. A Mehlville Firefighter has a non contributory defined benefit pension plan that is currently being converted to a defined contribution plan.
Looks like a St.Louis County Police Officer has a better salary and benefit package than a Mehlville Firefighter.
Any statements or statistics from the “Chiefs” or the Mehlville Fire Administration are no or no less than unfiltered propaganda from the MFPD Board. Both Chiefs serve at the pleasure of the Board and will not publicly correct or oppose any statement Mr. Hilmer makes, even when they know it is false and misleading. The Call newspaper prints, without editorial review of facts, any statement Mr. Hilmer supplies. Neither appears to have any semblance of integrity.
The facts are that Mehlville still provides a good value public service. It is a fact that Mehlville had firefighter/paramedics on fire trucks long before Mr. Hilmer. It is a fact that 1757 (the ambulance at Mehlville 5 house) was staffed for several years but has not been fully staffed (24/7) for several years. It is also a fact that 1727 (the ambulance that provides service for Oakville where Mr. Hilmer and Ms. Stegmann live) has been staffed 24/7 since it was placed in service 15+ years ago. It is a fact that there are a few more paramedic fire trucks than in the past but most days only 1 or 2. There are just too few firefighter/paramedics.
It is also a fact that last week a new firefighter/paramedic of MFPD only remained employed for 8 days. He was offered a job at a better paying fire district and took the job. He is not the first and will not be the last. Two St. Louis City firefighter/paramedics quit MFPD to return to the city. Many other firefighter/paramedics have left for better pay and benefits.
Mehlville’s Chief Jim Silvernail has been calling other chiefs all over the Midwest attempting to find qualified applicants. Unfortunately for him and the residents of the Mehlville District, among qualified firefighter/paramedics in the St. Louis area the word is out “Mehlville is not a good place to begin or continue a career in public service!”
From a public servant at MFPD who is currently out looking for a better job with vacation and a pension.
Who is Arron Hilmer? What are his qualifications? Where did he obtain his personal wealth and campaign financing? Does he have a job? Has he run a successful business? Has he raised a family? Did he graduate high school? Does he have a college degree? No one would take the advice of lawyer without a law degree or a self educated medical doctor. Why should Crestwood or anyone seek the reforms of an unproven reformer? He has only been in office 2 years. Is that the successful track record of a community activist, leader, or politician? Should the people of Crestwood trust Mr. Hilmer without knowing his qualifications based on a questionable 2 year political career? Take away the support of The Call Publishing and what is left?
Please, Tom or someone please find out who this man really is and what is his agenda. A Web search produced no results.
Signed Quizzical in Crestwood
The only claim to fame these two sham artists have is they lowered taxes. People hear that and think they re-invented the wheel. All they did was start a downward trend at the Mehlville Fire District. Should Mehlville have had Firefighter/Medics long ago? Yes, I will give them that one. Crestwood has had them on the pumpers for many years. They have cut benefits and stepped on people over there to the point where they can't even get very many quality people to apply or stay there. They hired a chief (Jim Silvernail) who was being investigated on harrassment charges (involving a gun) against one of his former bosses at Metro West Fire District. HE ADMITTED GUILT! In fact, when they were cleaning out his vehicle when he turned it in after his "retirement" from there, they found a gun holster. What a great choice that was. I guess Steve Mossotti (Mehlville Assistant Chief) had not had enough time to get his normal dose of butt-kissing in with Aaron. He is definitely making up for it now. What a sell-out. I have lost all respect that I once had for him (so has ALOT of other people outside Mehlville). Any chance they get to step on people and there families over at Mehlville they do it. Aaron is a trust fund baby who has never worked. He has no children and that is why he is always out to get the Mehlville School District when they try to go for a tax increase, because it does not effect him and he doesn't want to pay. Bonnie Stegman ran because she was mad that her husband couldn't get hired at Mehlville. This is back when the talent pool was flooded with a ton of more than qualified applicants and he couldn't cut it. She works at St. Anothony's and used to teach Paramedics. Nobody will taker her class anymore so they transferred her to another department teaching nurses (snoozer). These two have made a mess of Mehlville. Stay Away!
Let's try to figure out why Aaron Hilmer hates taxes.....let's say every year you get a big chunk excuse me a huge chunk of money from a trust fund from someone in your family who may have passed on or is in a home, when it comes time to receiving that money the state wants their portion of it too. What other fund besides a trust fund gets taxed the worst besides the missouri lottery? And, you have no kids to give it to, to have a tax break.
He resides in mehlville with some of the best schools and at one time the best fire and ambulance service around. Their taxes were moderate, not to high not to low but just right, so clearly a lot goes to schools and fire protection.He should try living within his means... for instance don't buy a 4000 sqft house if all you can afford is a 2500sqft house.
Who is an easy target in any community..? well it's the fire and police, because we pay their salary and all that comes with it. Sure why not run for the board if you have nothing else to do and you have no idea how a fire district works. In 2007 they were $200.000 plus in the red. Where did that money come from to bail them out. Well it came from savings. Thank goodness there was a savings account.
Why not just take an extra 3 cents out from general fund, from 64 cents to 67 cents or what ever it is, and staff 1757 (5 house ambulance) 24hrs a day. Oh wait no one wants to work there.
It's easy to say " it's the Union's fault" Sounds like we are in the third grade.
Tom, this blog is not longer about Crestwood, but about Mehlville Fire District. You have lost control of your blog.
Lost control? Nope, these "people want to take control of your Fire department, that's Crestwood if ever I have seen it!
Tom Ford
Tom, really now, how many of the posters here do you think really live in Crestwood?
12:03 PM Really now, who but Crestwood residents would want to read about things only pertinent to Crestwood. Non-residents should be bored with all of the issues since they do not pertain to them.
non residents who work for the city or those who have an ax to grind with the Mehlville FPD Board might be reading this, doubt they live in Crestwood. How about those examples?
In fact since this is on the internet and allows anonymous posting, anyone in the world or anyone of any age could be posting here and there is no way to disprove they are.
12:03 PM blogger: I have no idea, nor do I care! If Crestwood isn't important to them why would they read this, or post for that matter?
Un like the "truth spot" that welcomes no one, I allow all to post and comment to their hearts content.
Tom Ford
How very interesting! The south county truth (?) spot blog has decided that I am "A Grand Poohbah!"
They also think that I am a "union thug" who is on the side of the fire unions. Well, it's become the norm for the "paper" and the MFPD to attack anyone who will no bow down to them, so it's my turn!
And now that I think about it, why yes, I would rather align myself with the firemen that a bunch of "metrosexuals" with their shorts in a knot!
Hilmer, Stegman, Milligan, Anthony, and ?, you lost, get over it!
Tom Ford
MFPD and the "paper" lost? Lost what?
It's the people of Crestwood who lost by not even considering Mehlville's proposal.
Where do you get this metrosexual stuff? Do you even personally know the people that you are denouncing?
You need to stop drinking for awhile.
I just read the Truth Spot and I could find no reference portraying you as a "union thug".
Do you make this stuff up as you go along?
I agree with the previous poster. Lay off the sauce!
Hey kiddies, liten up a bit! Your right "The people of Crestwood decided," and I am one of them!
The people of Crestwood won by keeping our own fire service in tact, and if you wanted to be real you would agree!
Tom Ford
Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English - Cite This Source - Share This Main Entry: "metrosexual"
Part of Speech: n, adj
Definition: a heterosexual male who has a strong aesthetic sense and inordinate interest in appearance and style, similar to that of homosexual males
Etymology: 1994; blend of metropolitan + heterosexual
Usage: informal
when was the election about the fire dist. offer? Since we didn't vote, how can you say we won?
We won because of the fact there was no vote needed! Our City fathers were smart enough to reject this out of hand, so "we" (Crestwood) won!
Tom Ford
Really, so now our local govt (City Fathers) know what is best for us?
Big Brother in Crestwood.
Typical Liberal mindset.
4:04 PM blogger: No, typical remark from a "Roy hater!"
Get over it, your in the minority here "short round!"
By the way, where is your "candidate?"
Tom Ford
Tom,
Only a liberal would deny the people their vote, is that what you are doing? What are you blabbering about a candidate? I am talking about the right to vote on our future as it relates to the fire district offer, are you saying Roy intends to deny us that?
Looks like your pro union, liberal big government, side is starting to show. If that is not the case, then demand the issue be on the ballot in April, along with the tax increase you know is needed. Come on big boy, show us how much a talk like a conservative but really a liberal you are. What are you afraid of?
8:34 sounds to me like he/she is for having Mehlville come in and take over. I really don't think you would want a vote of the people if that is the case. It would fail terribly (according to which way you look at it). This is either a Mehlville board member, or a possible mayoral candidate that is posting this comical crapola. If it is a candidate, I hope that you use this as part of your campaign strategy. I'm sure it will win you alot of votes (sarcasm).
Why is everyone who is against the MFPD offer against the voters having their say? What do they fear? Why do they fear the voters?
If the offer is such a bad deal, it should be a slam dunk turn down by Crewstwood voters.
I thought Liberals were the only one's against the people having a say in what happens to them?
8:08 am I don't think this issue has gone far enough yet to be a ballot issue. We are vigerously talking about it on this blog, but even though the mayor has said "no", it still remains to be seen if the board of aldermen agree with him.
Like I have said before, the mayor is blamed for lots of different things, but the board of aldermen also have a say in this very important issue, since the people report to them and they represent us.
The mayor cannot call for a vote of the people without the board; and I really don't think that the fire district issue is that far along.
And even if our mayor said "no thanks" to Mehlville, that still doesn't mean it is finished.
As far as I am concerned, I am finished with it, because I don't want to take an offer from a fire district who can take over control of what we pay them in 2 years, or 3 years or whenever. And it will happen, because it always has.
Many fire chiefs and the upper eschelon in the Mehlville Fire District retire as millionaires and it's a fact because I have a family member who has.
This issue like so many others discussed on this blog, are not cut and dry. And you cannot just put anything on the ballot when it has only been a short time since Mehlville has made the offer in the first place. Why be hasty about saying yes to them?
This is serious business.
I think if we were to make it a ballot issue now, there would be just as many people being upset about it being too soon, as those who want something done yesterday.
Are you saying that the Mayor does not control the entire City like he says?
Has anyone told him or the Aldermen?
How he (the mayor) does it, I'll never know....the majority of the BOA asked for a "plan B" for the 2008 budget. Did they get it? NO. Who controls the CA? the mayor of course! Now you know why...
It's called Aldermen who want to "get along", but that is not how our government is set up to work.
TO 1:11 PM,December 10,2007.
I believe your statement about Mehlville Fire Protection District leaving as millionaries is wrong. When a Mehlville Fire Protection District Employee retires they have a option of a monthly benefit check or a lump sum pay out which is figured on their years of service,age and base pay. If call Mehlville and check no one has received a lump pension pay out of a million dollars
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