Mehlville fire board courts Crestwood?
Is it me, or does anyone else find it strange that the Mehlville fire board continues to speak to the papers reference their proposed take over of out Fire Department?
By now they received the letter telling them were not interested, and yet the three on the board continue to tell us how lucky we would be via the Post Dispatch (click in the header for the story.)
Mr. Hilmer, MS. Stegman, and whomever else is on that board seem to like to "try their case in the papers!" Why you say, well because they know they cant win with us, so they attempt to portray us as victim's, and UN-informed, by using the papers. This reminds me of the lawyers for the Menendez brothers who asked for mercy since their clients were "orphans," forget the fact that they shot their own parents!
To the Mehlville fire board, what say you wait till Jan. 08 when the Town Hall meetings start and then attend the Fire Department one and tell us up close, and in person what your plans are? Failing that, well fish off another dock friends, as we have a very fine Fire Department here, and we don't need one that has a "help wanted" sign out 24 / 7!
Tom Ford
NO.426
By now they received the letter telling them were not interested, and yet the three on the board continue to tell us how lucky we would be via the Post Dispatch (click in the header for the story.)
Mr. Hilmer, MS. Stegman, and whomever else is on that board seem to like to "try their case in the papers!" Why you say, well because they know they cant win with us, so they attempt to portray us as victim's, and UN-informed, by using the papers. This reminds me of the lawyers for the Menendez brothers who asked for mercy since their clients were "orphans," forget the fact that they shot their own parents!
To the Mehlville fire board, what say you wait till Jan. 08 when the Town Hall meetings start and then attend the Fire Department one and tell us up close, and in person what your plans are? Failing that, well fish off another dock friends, as we have a very fine Fire Department here, and we don't need one that has a "help wanted" sign out 24 / 7!
Tom Ford
NO.426
posted by Crestwood Independent at 16:48
70 Comments:
Could this be political vendentta that Mr. Hilmer wants to go after the Chief over a South County Fire Alarm issue ?????
Put nothing past a politician! Could he be in the "hurt feelings group?" You betcha!
It also could be that he wants to break the unions (Firefighters that is.)
But whatever it is, I guarantee you that this is not being done out of the goodness of his heart!
Lord, I hope these people have the courage to attend a town hall meeting, I would love to mix it up a bit with them, but I doubt it!
Tom Ford
Could be our Mayor has the political agenda here, no talking about till after the filing date for his re-election? Wouldn't surprise me one bit. That's courage for you.
Remember they want to join the Crestwood Swim Club!
Maybe the Mayor is handing out free memberships to get re-elected!
Why does Mehlville want to take over Crestwood's fire protection?
What benefit is it to them?
11:33 PM blogger: Simple, it's called money! Cash flow, more land, bigger coffers mean bigger pensions, plus they don't like union's!
Any time you want to find out the root cause of any nafarious deal, just follow the money!
8:49 PM blogger: Filing for Mayor goes well past the time for the Town Hall meeting, so that's a moot point!
Tom Ford
I received this from a person who was at the last BOA meeting who took notes!
"By the way, at the last board meeting, Bland held his head in his hand for most of it - even when constituents were speaking. He spoke only once the entire night at the end of the meeting. John Foote, Steve Nieder, and Greg Roby (they were following protocol and taking their turns as called on) were discussing the upcoming townhall meetings. They were also discussing the time and day to have them. All of a sudden, out of the blue, Bland yells "point of order! point of order!" Roy lets Alderman Bland speak, who says he had his light on for a long time, and says that having meetings on Saturday morning may not garner the most attendance. Up to that point, Saturday mornings had not been mentioned. It was rather bizarre. He spoke that we need to have meetings at a time and date convenient for the residents - but he used a lengthy speech to do it. I took note of it."
Why is it that Alderman Bland dosen't want to have a Town Hall meeting on a Saturday? Can it be that he really dosen't want the "blue collar" working people to attend?
Some of the most highly attended meetings have been on Saturday mornings Richard, what are you afraid of my friend?
Tom Ford
Why don't you ask him
With regard to Mehlville FD taking over Crestwood. There are several points that concern me.
1.) If Mehlville took over who pays the fees we currently pay to Affton?
2.) Is Mehlville willing to guarantee our taxes won't go up for an extended period of time say 20 years?
3.) If our taxes are going to go up under Mehlville, why don't we just increase them ourselves and keep our own fire dept.?
4.) If we did change to Mehlville and then decided, after our finances were stronger, to resume our own FD would we be able to do it?
5.) If we are going to explore having another FD provide services, shouldn't we go out for proposals from Affton and Fenton to insure we are getting the best deal?
10:12 AM blogger:
1. I believe we still do.
2. No, you won't get more than 12 months from them.
3. Exactly!
4. Nope the trucks would be gone, as well as the troops!
5. What and toss out Hilmer and Stegman? Have you no shame?
Tom Ford
The Mehlville Fire Protection District's proposition is nothing more then about "money and power". It's just that simple.
I know the past fire chief who retired from Mehlville who left a "millionaire"; yes, that's what I said, a "millionaire".
Believe me, if or when this deal is finalized, we will all regret it. Down the line we will all be forced to realize that.
I say no way to it. The powers that be, Mr. Hilmer and company, know we are vunerable right now, and you think he is making us a deal out of the goodness of his heart? Give me a break.
He is using our decline in sales tax and revenue to capitalize on a merger with Mehlville to "their" advantage not Crestwood's.
What we have to loose is simple; we will have no more control over whatever they decide to do 5, 10 and 20 years from now. Any deals they make down the line has their best interested at heart, not ours.
It's just like a person who is out of cash and has bills to pay and ends up using a credit card gimmick to pay off his debts. There is a price to pay down the line. There always is.
Maybe others want to sell their souls to the devil, but not me. I will take my chances without signing this deal with a deadly pen.
10:12 AM, November 25, 2007
Excellent post! There are a lot of serious questions to this proposal and plenty of unknowns.
RE:Alderman Bland and Mr. Ford's "cub reporter".
Mr. Ford.
Is this the same reporter who told you that the Mayor at a Board of Alderman meeting said in public on tape that he was against the Mehlville offer? If so I have serious doubts to the truth of this latest bit of "news" that you have published. Like so much of your "news, inside scoops" they are fabrications, used to defame those who might run against your buddy the Mayor. As such, I have to believe that the true source therefore is the Mayor or one who is in his camp, like you, and therefore is not the truth but is a lie.
2:14 pm Boy, the paranoid just keep getting more paranoid. Oh Sure, there is a big conspiracy going on!
Everyone and anyone can run against Roy, and someone will for sure. Maybe you should run! Whoever runs against Roy will play their best hand too. So what's the difference?
2:14 PM blogger: Well well, where have you been Mr. / Ms. Anonymous? Sorry but the "cub" has been checked, and re-checked, and it's a FACT!
If you were there you saw it (unless you turned a blind eye as usual.) But I guess you wern't, and since your "out of the loop" your angry!
Please tell us you do have something better than that inane remark for us! Tell us that you haven't pinned your remarks to the "Bravo Seirra" you picked up at the last cocktail circut party you attended!
Friend, Crestwood is moving forward, and like it or not your in a "static" mode, and with an attitude like you display here, sure to remain there!
Tom Ford
In the recent article in the St. Louis Post this Saturday it stated that the Mehlville Fire Protection serves both the City of Lakeshire and parts of Lemay. This information is wrong. Lakeshire is served by the Affton Fire Protection District and Lemay is served by the Lemay Fire Protection District. Who gave the Post this wrong information, Mr. Hilmer? What do the other 2 Mehlville Fire Board Members think of this proposal. I bet they did not even have a say in the matter.By keeping the services of the Crestwood Fire Department in Crestwood the citizens would have a voice in how their tax dollars are spent for the services they receive.
Tom Ford's can not be relied upon to report the truth of what was said at Meetings he did not attend. That has been proven, so if you want to drink his Kool Aid, please be my guest.
Go up and listen to the tape then.
So, Mehlville is offering to take over Crestwood's fire department, save the city some money, and hire all of our employees while providing us with a full time ambulance instead of Abbott.
Hmmmm....that sounds like a pretty good offer and a pretty big deal for everyone involved.
I wonder why we haven't heard from the leaders of the "politically powerful IAFF Local 2665" (as the PD describes them) on this issue??? You would think that the prospect of losing members to a neighboring local would have them faoming at the mouth.
Maybe its because this Hilmer guy is getting a bad rap about being a union busting politician. If that's the case, why is he offering our firemen a big pay raise and our city a big fee cut? Maybe it's because he would rather deal with Local 2665 than the thugs he has been putting up with down there since he got elected, and he is hoping that taking over Crestwood will force his current employees to disband their local and join the bigger union.
Check the classified ads today. Mehlville pays over $68,000 plus full benefits. Crestwoods firemen make about $50,000 and pay a lot for health insurance. Do the math. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they'd be better off there than here.
Their VP (who used to post on this blog) is a smart enough guy to realize all this. Maybe he's the one pulling the strings. Want to talk conspiracy theories, how about getting his guys an $18,000 raise and adding over 100 new members to Local 2665?
10:14pm, "It doesn't take a genius" to figure out that you are wrong! They have not offered employment to all of the Crestwood firmen nor will they. They have not offered a single person from Crestwood a job. They can re-apply for new employment and POSSIBLY get hired there while taking a PAY CUT. They would not start out at that rate you qouted. You could go to one of their board meetings and ask Aaron Hilmer himself if you'd like. Oh yeah, make sure you write down your question on a little index card they give you so they can read it and decide if they even want to answer your question. That is how it works over there. If you don't believe me you can ask any of their citizens over there that try and ask questions or make comments at a board meeting. Here is an idea, go up to OUR firhouse and ask OUR firmen how many want to go to work over at Mehlville for that shady character. From what I have heard you might be very suprised.
Help Wanted: Firmen to work at our Firhouse. Contact Fir Chief at Crestwood City Hall.
9:05 AM I am with you all the way on this one whoever you are. I hope everyone that still thinks that "goof ball" wants to help Crestwood by making his offer can read your comment. If you can't see this issue for what it really is, you are wearing rose-colored glasses.
Down the line, Crestwood would never know what price we would pay for giving up our control and our firefighters.
What did our Charter do for us? We wanted to control our own destiny right? Our Charter wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on if we accept Mehlville's offer.
Stop linking this issue with Roy wanting to be re-elected, stop linking it with what Tom Ford says or doesn't say, and take this whole issue at face value and see it for what it really is. A chance for Mehlville to reap a victory, giving them more power, probably more money and total control where we won't have anything to say in the future.
Our Fire Department has an open-door policy and you are always welcome to stop in and talk to the firefighters and their rank and file.
If you really want to pursue this issue and you can't see it for what it really is, I would stop in and talk to them one on one. If you can't trust anyone on this blog, you can certainly trust them to tell you the truth.
Thanks.
7:55 PM blogger: I can be relied on to shine the light of truth on those of you who wish to believe you were destined to be the "ruling class" in Crestwood!
If you don't believe it happened, listen to the tape, ask Martha Duchild, or anyone else who was there!
It Happened, and you know it or you wouldent be defending the "defenceless." as you seem to want to do!
Since when is "holding your head in your hands" respectful behavure to a citizen? And for that matter, I havent heard "point of order, point of order" since "tail gunner" Joe Mc Carthy in the Senate un-American committee meetings in the 50's!
You can make all the remarks about me you wish, but at the end of the day, Alderman Bland was wrong, and you know it!
By the way, thank you for confirming that he will be running against Mayor Robinson in the Mayors race. He must be, else why would you be so upset?
Tom Ford
Question - why doesn't our fire department have an ambulance?
It certainly seems to me that an ambulance staffed by professional fire fighters would be better than one staffed by part-time ambulance drivers (like Abbott) trying to get a job with a fire department. I know our FD touts itself as ALS (whatever that means), but the bottom line is that our fire fighters are not caring for our citizens druing their trip to the hospital.
To me, if Mehlville is offering that service, we should seriously consider it. Even if we decide that our City should continue to operate a fire department, I sincerely hope that this will lead to our department operating its own ambulance. My understanding is that Crestwood is one of only a very small number of departments that doesn't have an ambulance.
I don't understand why the union would be opposed to this. To me it seems that operating an ambulance would provide the city more revenue (possibly that could be used for raises), and it would also push a non-union service out of Crestwood. Can somebody please explain to me how an organization sharp enough to coordinate Roy's campaign could be so shortsighted on this subject?
After reading the many articles that are posted in the blog it is apparent that the offer to take over the already fine service provided to the citizens of Crestwood by the Crestwood Fire Department is a offer by only one board member of Mehlville,Mr.Hilmer.
If the proposed plan was to be adopted the personal that serves the citizens of Crestwood would be reduced by 37%. Their is no mention on how the current employees would be treated. If the current Crestwood employees would be offered jobs at Mehlville would they retain all the current benefits that they have earned? Would they be considered new Mehlville employees and have to start over? New employees at Mehlville have a benefit package that is one of the worst is St. Louis County. Mehlville has a high turnover rate of newly hired employees. One recently hired employee just left after one week of employment. Keeping the Crestwood Fire Department just the way it is means no reduction in employees or services.
TO 10:14 PM November 25,2007. After checking the classified ads I found that the 68,000.00 salary is for a employee after they reach 5 years of employment.A new Mehlville employee receives 48 hours vacation for years 1 through 5. Based on a 56 hour work week they receive less than 1 weeks vacation for their first 5 years. A new employee receives 200.00 Holiday pay per year.This is paid no matter how many holidays they work. The new employee receives 8 sick days a year,with a cap of 6 months. What happens to them if they are out longer than that? Take a look at their health insurance benefits and proposed pension benefits. The Crestwood Fire Fighters might receive less of a salary but their benefits are a lot better. Keep our Crestwood Fire Fighters and the excellent service they provide the Crestwood residents.
here here!!!!!
Keep the better benefits for our Crestwood Firefighters, regardless of what it costs us!
OK...but why can't we have our own ambulance?
If Abbott transports 1,000 patients a year and collects an average of $150 per transport, that would be $150,000 in additional revenue for the city plus better service for the residents.
I am not sure where I stand on the Mehlville offer. Losing control of the fire department makes me nervous. However, the ambulance thing makes a lot of sense to me. I would think anyone running for Mayor would have that as a primary plank in his/her platform.
Platform? You must be joking! Current Mayor wouldnt even show up at a Women's League of Voters Debate last time he ran cause he was afraid of not winning the debate.
Platform, that would mean stating a position that could be questioned or be held accountable for?
I would like to see why Roy thinks we should re-elect him based on what he see's his vision of Crestwood is over the next 3 years and how he plans to take us there.
Wouldn't you?
MR. Ford,
You claim to be a conservative but reject Mr. Aaron Hilmer's proposal to reduce government spending in Crestwood.
Are you so committed to Crestwood fire fighters union Local 2665 that you are blinded by the successes in the Mehlville FPD? Mr. Hilmer has returned the Mehlville FPD to the control of the people and lowered taxes.
Mr. Hilmer is a conservative's conservative and the most popular elected official in South County. Mehlville's idiotic and selfish union bosses have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in many attempts destroy him. They even beat out his car windows the night he was elected. It hasn't worked.
You seem to side with the union thugs who are closely aligned with the local Democratic machine. What kind of conservatism is that?
"Most popular elected official in South County" has got to be the biggest joke I have heard in quite some time! The guy is getting shunned by his own party! The only success he has had is ruining a once fine department, which is exactly what he set out to do. Is there proof that they beat out his car windows? Was there a police report? Are you sure he did not do this himself? Yeah, he's popular alright. Like an episode of Jerry Springer!
7:31 am Yeah let's blame this whole Mehlville issue on Roy and how he didn't go to the debate with the Women's League, and let's blame him for this and that. Let's jut blame everything that has happened in Crestwood on him.
How about just sticking to how residents feel about Mehlville taking over our city huh?
If you want to use every comment to slam the mayor and make him the subject of every issue, I think you have an obssessive compulsive disorder.
You can think what you want about me, I could care less. I am not the one who promised to bring Crestwood back and that I had a plan to do so.
Thanks for allowing me to use my freedom speech rights as protected by the Bill of Rights, that is very big of you.
8:24 AM blogger: Very well, let's look at your comment's here.
1. You say he is the "most popular politician" in south county? That's news to a lot of people, including me. Who told you that? Mr. Hilmer himself?
2. "Mr. Hilmer is a conservative's conservative," really, and he is known to be firmly entrenched with Mr. Mike Anthony and the "Paper!" Where does that show "conservative" behavure?
3. "Mehlville's idiotic and selfish union bosses have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in many attempts destroy him. They even beat out his car windows the night he was elected. It hasn't worked." And which union bosses would you be refering to here? Teamsters, IBEW, Sheetmetal workers, or who are you saying did this? A bit of an idiotic remark on your part, no?
4. " You seem to side with the union thugs who are closely aligned with the local Democratic machine. What kind of conservatism is that?" Again, union thugs? I have never met a "union thug" to my knowledge, in fact all the union bosses I have met were more kind and friendly than some bloggers on this site!
What kind of conservatism is that? well my friend, the kind that dosen't toss out the baby just because they want something different! In fact, quite the opposite. You seem to feel that Mehlville will do a better job, I KNOW they will not, and there in lies the rub!
Tom Ford
how much will it cost us to keep our "better service"? How much more are you and others willing to pay to keep this better service? What other services are you willing to cut to keep our Fire Services? If the Mall closes with it's new ownership in March '08 for 2 years to rebuild, what would you be willing to drop from our city services and what would you be willing to pay to keep what you can?
I have a plan that address all of the above, but 1st I want to read your and others answers to my questions, which if you look at them are fair and not political questions. So no one needs to that bring the charge of politics
or former elected officials.
4:29 Listen Gohmer, this blog heading "Mehlville Fire Board Courts Crestwood" has no relavence to what Roy said about bringing Crestwood back or if he had or did not have a plan. We are talking about the Crestwood Fire Department and Mehlville. Get It? That's a far reach from what Roy said, or what Roy did, or what Roy is or is not doing. Your comment is not a subliminal message and your use of this blog heading to zip in your "Roy" quips could be put to better use somewhere else.
Most of us try to stick to this specific, particular subject; not stick it to the mayor. Try calling Mike Anthony from The Call and tell your story to him; I am sure he will print whatever it is you dislike about the Mayor. He so enjoys that.
Thanks Mrs.Robinson for your input.
Can't wait for the election for mayor to be over with. If Roy looses, many on this blog won't have anymore fun. Just think no more "Roy quips". Will however be anxious to hear what plaudits they will give to the next guy. To the winner goes the spoils!
7:50 looks like no one wants to put into the broadband their ideas as you asked. Makes this reader wonder if anyone who posts here lives in Crestwood or is not a firefighter? Why else would they not post their ideas?
7:50 PM blogger:
"how much will it cost us to keep our "better service"? How much more are you and others willing to pay to keep this better service?"
Now were getting somewhere, good question my friend!
Let's see, if the Plaza stays open and provides us with some revenue, I think we will eventually have to go from .44 cents per hundred to say .54 cents per hundred without cutting any of the services we now enjoy.
Now if the plaza were to close, well were going to need at least .74 cents per hundred to remain afloat.
WHAT, you say? Who in their right mind would give a politician that kind of money to play with? Well, I guess we will, and that's going to require some VERY open and HONEST government in Crestwood.
Casting the doomsday senario aside, we should only require that .74 Cent rate for a maximum of two to three years while a new development is built. After that, we can sunset it, and go back to where we were.
Of all the proposals I have and haven't heard, at least this one gives us a "plan B" if there is bad news down the line.
PS: That rate, while heavy is nowhere as bad as it will be with MFPD, or STL.CO.PD down the road if we were foolish enough to take their proposal! Don't believe my, ask Mr . Hilmer for a ten year contract at the "buy in rate."
What say you 7:50 blogger?
Tom Ford
This blog is copied from an earlier site. Below it at the bottom, is my commentary on the matter.
"It is so amazing how fast people jump negatively on something when it is not their brand of "I lika like this."
We have big expectations here in Crstwood, we tend to be spoiled. Apparently judgemental, as well. That is until the bottom line starts coming up. You know, the red one. Something always has to give. Streets, sewers, service, attitudes. Right now, I don't think it is all that majestic of us to unload on Mr. Hilmer(who I do not know from a hole in the ground) or try and find some knits to pick. How senseless. We have no idea whether these statements are rumors, truths, part of each or facts. We also do not have a clue to which degree we had better start worrying about the quality and continuation of our own services. I have read of good things done in Mehlville, good solutions, necessary solutions. Now this blog wants to come along and try to make a big noise about an offer made. A letter sent. An idea. No hammer here. An idea. This trigger happy poppycock being insinuated is so darned childish it makes me sick. We are not in a position to sound grand, friends. Not at all. What does not look so good now, is not welcomed, draws so much of your fire and ire, just could become a welcome compromise. Who the heck knows??? Best you critics and the fire fighters who want to put in their two bits just cross fingers and quit the incessant fault finding. Getting old, folks. Getting old. We still have a few more miles to go before we can sound grand again here in Crestwood. So, lets quit splitting hairs and be grown ups. In the meantime, adjust your attitudes. I fail to see any damage or big huge awful horrible fallout from getting a letter with a suggestion from Mehlville.
Keeping our Fire Dept. intact is a great idea. Keeping 2 Fire Departments intact, ours and Affton's, who protect our annexed section, is a bit expensive for a city of 4 sq. miles and 12,000 people. May want to stuff this in your pipe for a smoke. When you are short on funds, sub standard could very well 'go around and come around.'
6:14 PM, November 29, 2007
.................................
Well, well - looks like this'un above should be here and not on thu udder header. Didja notice (betcha did) that on this here stream regarding fire districts, fighters and the 'offer,' that sure nuf, one of our regular brilliants deviated from the subject at hand in order to belittle Roy, Tom and whoever else ever stepped on their widdy biddy tootsies. I am beginning to think that if the subject was roses, or Brittney Spears, this/these lovlies would climb in with their Roy and/or Tom rhetoric and let go. Impresses the heck out of me!
As for the comment on Bland. Yet another unecessary post on this stream. But, who am I to say? I'll bite. This deserves another stream altogether. But, Bland does seem to be Kelleher's replacement, but from Ward 1. He is way too obvious and not ready to run for another office. First, he needs to get acclamated to the one he holds. And lose the huff and puff. That, and settle down. We are all wise to him. Right now, we need maturity and a lot less of this brand of politics. I'm sure you have noticed what the arrogance and politics of the recent past has gotten the city.
Why don't we just suggest a new heading, say, "Let's all pile on Roy?" Then the little Rascals, the Swimmers, the Men's Club, some of the ex-officials, and the great unwashed can unleash ALL thier angst and get it out of their systems. Then perhaps we can settle down to some useful rhetoric which might help unvail some useful back and forth which will make our city look like more than a herd of whining ninnies. Even Mr. Hilmer has probably heard of our former reputation of political inbreds. It's a wonder anyone would want get involved.
However, let us hope the good word is out, which is, for now we have a comfortable majority of aldermen who know their stuff and who are valiantly plowing through their inheritance of city government and doing an admiral job. I am sure we will grow to resent any official who tries to halt their efforts. They deserve our thanks and our encouragement.
Poster 7:50 here with my idea and answers to the questions I posted. Remember this I am not pointing fingers or calling names of any one, this is just how I see how things cold be done.
1. I think it is clear the there is any support for another property tax increase either by voters or elected leadership in the next 30 mths.
2. I do not think the sales tax income can be counted to meet this yrs budget past the 1st quarter.
3.Seeing that we have declining income with no way to stop decline or replace it, only option is cut costs/services, sell assets.
NOW HANG ON TO YOU HAT, THIS IS GOING TO HURT, but we are all grown ups, so lets thing about this.
If we allow another Fire district to protect us and if we allow the county police so protect us, we will save at least $350,000 a year. How? The cost of those services is more than just their paycheck or retirement, not included ether of their budgets is their insurance That is paid for from the general fund as is all depts insurance cost.
Without those two depts, we could either sell or lease City Hall property. Why? It would lower our costs to operate the buildings if we moved to one of the many smaller empty stores along Watson. It would give us either a new stream of income or a lump sum cash deposit.
Next we would sell Crestwood Park to be developed into homes. Impact, large cash deposit, increase in population, more property taxes, lower cost as one less park to take care of.
I think that by doing these things we could avoid a tax increase for at least 6 years, we would by then have the TIF from Kohl's paid off so the increase in sales tax would be 100% ours, the Pool would be paid off which means the City could start taking care of our storm water problems. At that point the City could take a look at the sales tax flow and determine if they want to bet their future on that of ask for a property tax increase which if passed would be used to pay for our own fire and/or police dept.
If the city was a business and it was owned by stock holders this would be a step taken if the business faced what city does. I know it is painful, I know it rubs all lot of you the wrong way, but even if a 74 cents property tax increase were passed, it would balance our books. This idea has at its base the chance for us to start all over and not be tied
sales tax.
Alright have at it?
Not sure I even know how to express myself. Reading through some of the jabber here, some intense, some ridiculous; it makes my teeth itch. One would think the Fire Department issue is the exact spark needed to insure a future for our city. The spark that will save us from obliteration. The Fire Department is 1 department, that it is our salvation stretches things. Let us be serious, please. All our employees are heros. When you start choosing up sides, oops! That rope can burn your hands.
I must admit to fascination over all the so called facts on this blog regarding Mehlville's unhappy firefighters. From whence comes this info? They may be unhappy, but the taxpayers don't seem to be. Best realize there are 2 sides to this story and we are getting only one. This is one of these trust but verify issues. Eh!
Think about this. How can we find solutions for a solid future if we have to face the fact that some people in our city, by their constant tripe on this blog, or wrapped in their beach towels or in slurping mode, have turned Roy, or Frank or Tom or Jerry (is there no Dick) into punching bags? Who continue to sound like jealous 6th graders. Their war cry is actually irrelevant at this point in our history. Best they consider burying the hatchet and protecting their property values. Pouting time is past.
If we don't pull together soon, they won't have a city to argue over. You, I nor Roy is responsible for falling revenue, empty stores, etc. Now that things are worrisome and we are thinking in terms of how to avoid crisis, these bottom feeders continue to play politics. Continue to miss their basking in the tides of an administration which turned the city over to someone who conveniently forgot to tell us that the train was coming down the track and at a pretty fast clip. Not to mention a few other transgressions too unbelievable to mention. Good thing, isn't it, that we had another set of residents who did see this train coming. Who stopped some of the bleeding by halting the 14 Million Dollar police station city hall, just not soon enough to save thousands in plans. You know, it does not take JP Morgan to realize that when you are running a city on a 2 M. LOC, followed by a 3.5 M. LOC and hocking the city buildings to do so ... hello, time to reconnoiter. But, no, it took an election to close down ok corral.
Term limits saved our city.
Crestwood Westfield Mall is a private operation. They will do as they darn well please. They will most likely not be asking our permission or guidance to do whatever they do. We are going to have to play the wait and see game more than likely. In the meantime, we need to support our city with our loyalty, shop here and express ourselves in a positive way. If you can find a way to impress me with how Roy Bashing helps, I will listen.
So let's not pretend this Fire Dept. talk is some sort of salve, distraction or solution. It is not a pain pill. The situation is a lot bigger than this. Crestwood is in a state of needing sensible shoes. Sensible people. People able to nurture the hope of our wonderful city. Without this, the conversation will eventually have to return to our services and our bottom line.
11:38 so does that mean you disagree with Toms solution or previous posters solution for future of City, neither post slammed anyone?
Police and fire protection are just as important to Crestwood's prosperity as anything else. And I don't think anyone is saying that all our employees don't deserve better pay and better benefits or that they are not important too. But this article is about our fire department and public safety issues.
Firemen put out fires, paramedics save lives everyday. Police keep our city safe from robberies, and protect our lives everyday. If we loose them, our property values go down and/or people die. Who has a better response time to assist us in safety and protection, Mehlville or Crestwood? A fast response time from our paramedics to our homes, or our police officers in the midst of a robbery can make all the difference in living or death. To die is to die, my friend. What is more important, your streets and sidewalks or property and life?
No matter who is or will become mayor or aldermen in the future, if we have to raise taxes to keep those two departments, we better do it and forget about Mehlville. What I mean is...
We will have no shoppers going to any Mall in Crestwood if we don't have police officers to patrol, or if we don't have paramedics who assists purchasers when they become ill our commercial establishments. We will have no one visiting any stores in Crestwood without our firefighters who protect our buildings from fire and protect them with safety inspections. That's why this issue is so important.
Thank you.
name one store in St Louis County that does not have police or fire protection? There are none. Regardless of what Crestwood does or doesn't do, there will be fire and police protection in Crestwood. It just may not be local protection, which if our City government can not afford to have, then we as residents will have to pay for one way or the other. By a fire district or county police regardless if we are a city or not.
12:14 What about response time, if we go County with our police and Mehlville with our fire protection? You act like it's not a big deal but it is. How do you know how much we will pay Mehlville 5,6,7 years from now. We go with Mehlville cause it sounds so good, then we are married to them and have no say about what they do down the line. Is that not a little scary to you? I am not saying it is out of the question but we may be selling our souls to the devil if we don't watch out. I hope you are not one of those that would rather put us in jeopardy than at least consider a tax increase. You go to Mehlville, you are subject to anything and everything they throw at us down the line. You got a group of people who will run it and depending on how honest they are, we could be in for a big surprise someday costing us much more than a tax increase. Just a thought, nothing more.
Thank you.
1:40 How large an increase in in your property tax rate are you willing to pay to keep your fire dept?
Do you think the new owners of the Mall are going to do something that will return Crestwood back to it's salad day were we will not need property tax increase to operate?
Dreamer, how much will you pay now to save your fire department?
How much more in property taxes are you willing to pay to keep our current level of response time?
5:34 pm - 5:40 pm
How much will it cost, is an answer only our elected officials can come up with, after they examine all of the numbers. I wouldn't want some ridiculous amount, but I would be for something that makes sense.
You cannot expect anyone at this point in time to pull a number out of a hat. A tax increase requires clear thinking, comparative studies, and an examination of all of our monies. Unless you just want to have them spit something out, which would be stupid.
Some people think that we need not look back to see what mistakes have been made in the past. I say OK to some of that line of thinking. But if you can go back to see how much we have depended on sales tax to sustain us in almost everything we did here in Crestwood, you would see that we have not been "balanced" in our finances for years and years.
We had a "wishing well" called Cretwood Plaza. We were proud of being a "point of sale city". We thought we didn't need anything else, which means we were not balanced, and had a lopsided cash flow called sales tax revenue that would sustain us forever. And once you upset the balance in life, things happen. The wishing well is now dry and we have nothing to fall back on. We have no cash to sustain us until we get back on our feet. It's like people living from pay check to pay check never thinking the day will come when the pay check doesn't cut it anymore.
So to answer your question, we will have to see what our elected officials come up with. Let them do their homework and crunch the numbers. We elected them so let them do their jobs.
Great, then then dont you think they should be that number crunching now?
How long should it take for our City Fathers to figure out how much increase in property tax we need to keep our fire dept?
Don't you think that if they were really doing their job they woud know already? After all, they know the rate of decline in sales tax income, and as any of us can do, they can see the half empty parking lots at the mall. Regardless of the Mehlville offer, they should have been working on this answer long ago
I agree that they should be crunching numbers and they should know something by now. But since we are not sitting on the dais, we should ask our aldermen for that answer or we can speculate forever. Ask them what have they been discussing in their work sessions.
Although I agree with you, I think so far all they have been trying to do is cut costs other ways because to go to the citizens and ask for money is too risky and too scary. Frankly, I am tired of trying other ways cause it isn't working. But it is going to take elected people who are willing to face reality to push for a tax increase.
How much you want to bet that at the town hall meeting, not one elected official will say the "t" is for "tax" word?
In the back of their minds, they know that is what we are going to have to do but thus far the mayor and board are trying to devert the issue by other means.
I am tired of standing on a small ledge here worrying about money when our Crestwood tax has been so low for so long that it is time to march on to the 2100 Century that says you can't live on what we had 30 years ago tax wise.
Thank you.
Don't forget the Mayor is on record saying we dont need another tax increase, wonder if he still would say that? He is the leader and spokesperson for our city,(his own words) why isn't he out in front leading on this?
2:27 PM I understand that the mayor said no tax increase but there are 8 people that are on the board. They have a say in this too! Maybe they agree with him, I don't know. I guess we will find out at the town hall meeting.
Seems we all say things on the blog about how we feel, but who speaks to their aldermen about it?
I don't, do you? Nobody seems to say anything at the board of aldermen meetings about it. So your guess is as good as mine.
I have spoken to my Alderman and they both have told me that the mayor prevents any talk about tax increase and threatens veto's if he doesnt get his way. Read the minutes, listen to the tapes,ask your aldermen.
Sorry to hear that the mayor is against a tax increase. But, whether or not he is our mayor after April, 2008, I think it will happen and I think we are long overdue.
I have to chime in here!
1- Hilmer says you will get a ALS ambulance. Unless its filling in for the other areas that are covered. Mehlville doesn't even have enough Ambulances to cover themselves.
2 Hilmer is a lier and has connections at The Call publications, His puppet Fire Chief Silvernail has connections at the TV news outlets and even serves as a advisor for Fox 2. They can publish what they want you to read and see on the news!
3- The bully thing is kinda old.
Its gotten to the point in Mehlville that some of us won't risk our lives for the disrespect that our citiens give us. That is If a insured house catches fire why should I risk my life to go in there and try to save you dining room table, Bedroom set, house if it's going to be replaced anyway!
Do you want that kind of moral protecting the citizens of Crestwood?
Well that's good enough for me to say NO to Mehlville.
Too many people are saying the same thing about Mr. Hilmer and company, for it not to be true.
This happens a lot when people make millions and end up real cocky because the money makes them feel invincible. Then their objectivity, which should be the survival of people in crisis, is lost. They feel so superior that they forget why they are there to begin with.
No way for me. I'll pay the extra dollars it takes and keep my police and fire departments.
why should i risk my life, hmmmmm, well don't, instead quit the job you hate so much and let others who care have it
I will ask again and you should too. Who is Arron Hilmer? Can he be trusted to tell the truth? What are his qualifications? Where did he obtain his personal wealth and campaign financing? Does he have a job? Has he run a successful business? Has he raised a family? Did he graduate high school? Does he have a college degree? No one would take the advice of lawyer without a law degree or a self educated medical doctor. Why should Crestwood or anyone seek the reforms of an unproven reformer? He has only been in office 2 years. Is that the successful track record of a community activist, leader, or politician? Should the people of Crestwood trust Mr. Hilmer without knowing his qualifications based on a questionable 2 year political career? Take away the support of The Call Publishing and what is left?
Please, Tom or someone please find out who this man really is and what is his agenda. A Web search produced no results.
Signed Quizzical in Crestwood
Dear Quizzical,
Who are you? I'd like to have someone look up your background.
It's no different than checking a resume. If he (Hilmer) puts himself in the public eye than he is fair game to be scrutinized!
By whom?
By those he represents.
do they have names?
I think he means Mr. and Mrs. Joe Taxpayer.
You mean the people who voted him into office?
Gee, I wish I could vote on the Mehlville offer.
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