Mehlville fire plan, "thanks but no thank's!"
Below is a resume of last night's BOA meeting reference the Mehlville FPD proposed take over. I want to personally thank Alderman Pickel for getting the ball rolling on this "gesture" by Mr. Hilmer, ET AL!
In addition I would like to add the fact that our Mayor, Mr. Roy Robinson has personally come out against this proposal as well, and said so last night!
Does he have a plan? Well I guess so, in fact his plan is to keep home rule in Crestwood where it belongs, and not in the hands of some FPD that couldn't care less about us! Is it me, or does anyone else find it strange that Mr. Hilmer would send this proposal to the local papers? Since when sir do they make the decisions for Crestwood?
Mr. Hilmer, the next time you have a bright idea for my city, please run it through the chain of command (you know the fire chief, C/A, Mayor, ETC.) and not the local paper, as the "paper" has a negative 3000 rating in this town! Until then please take your engine houses, your ALS trucks, your one ambulance, and yes your Dalmatian and fade back into relative obscurity!
"Under new business, Alderman Pickel brought up the proposal by Mehlville to take over Crestwood's fire protection. He said he received a lot of calls from residents concerned over the issue. Frank Myers told everyone that a letter is going out today (Wednesday) thanking Mr. Hilmer for his offer, but that the budget for the 2008 Crestwood Fire Department has already been set. He also said the city was happy with its fire protection and the offer from Mehlville came unsolicited. Furthermore, the letter (from Mr. Hilmer) was sent only to the mayor and board of alderman. Neither Mr. Myers nor Chief Kestler received the letter. It was also mentioned that the board will host town hall meetings in January, February, and March to discuss city services."
Tom Ford
NO.421
In addition I would like to add the fact that our Mayor, Mr. Roy Robinson has personally come out against this proposal as well, and said so last night!
Does he have a plan? Well I guess so, in fact his plan is to keep home rule in Crestwood where it belongs, and not in the hands of some FPD that couldn't care less about us! Is it me, or does anyone else find it strange that Mr. Hilmer would send this proposal to the local papers? Since when sir do they make the decisions for Crestwood?
Mr. Hilmer, the next time you have a bright idea for my city, please run it through the chain of command (you know the fire chief, C/A, Mayor, ETC.) and not the local paper, as the "paper" has a negative 3000 rating in this town! Until then please take your engine houses, your ALS trucks, your one ambulance, and yes your Dalmatian and fade back into relative obscurity!
"Under new business, Alderman Pickel brought up the proposal by Mehlville to take over Crestwood's fire protection. He said he received a lot of calls from residents concerned over the issue. Frank Myers told everyone that a letter is going out today (Wednesday) thanking Mr. Hilmer for his offer, but that the budget for the 2008 Crestwood Fire Department has already been set. He also said the city was happy with its fire protection and the offer from Mehlville came unsolicited. Furthermore, the letter (from Mr. Hilmer) was sent only to the mayor and board of alderman. Neither Mr. Myers nor Chief Kestler received the letter. It was also mentioned that the board will host town hall meetings in January, February, and March to discuss city services."
Tom Ford
NO.421
posted by Crestwood Independent at 16:51
57 Comments:
Tom,
Fire Protection Districts are not bad. Please don't bad wrap them. If you are referring and forming your thoughts from the Past article from the Post Dispatch please keep in mind the source for that was from past Fire Chiefs and [1] had a sister that is with the Post Dispatch. I also think we would agree the Call publications is one sided and does not give both sides of a story only there slant.
I would agree that the run of the mill FPD is not a bad thing at all! However in this case, it's a monster in "sheeps clothing!"
No, my thought's will never come from the Post "Disgrace" believe me, as that is one "source" that is more slanted that the "paper" if that's possible!
A FPD, or a volunteer fire department serve a lot of people very well, and I thank them for it!
This, however is an attempt to assist a group in wresting power from the good people of Crestwood, and as such is abhorent!
Tom Ford
I'm confused on the insurance ratings. How does Mehlville have a lower(means better?) rating?
They might not before to long.
There goes $200,000 in savings. But we can always cut out the job of the greeter at City Hall for a savings of $30,000.
Nice offer, Town Hall meetings after the deadline for filling for the April Election for Mayor. Roy dosent miss a trick does he?
6:21 am maybe you better go back to bed and get some sleep. Filing for election for mayor hasn't even started yet. If you would read your newsletter, you would know this. But I know it is so hard for you to not use an excuse to slam the mayor; sorry to put a damper on it.
Mr. Ford,
I is a shame that members of the oakville republican club are trying to come to your town and run it. Do some research on some of the people. It is eye opening.I would like to also point out when they try to push this for the 2009 budget they will enlist naturally the Call papers and John Hancock and Associates.{ Chesterfield] to after Crestwood again - So be warned.
"There goes $200,000 in savings."
For how long?
Was there a guarantee?
What if the three member panel changes during the next election?
What then?
What would happen to our existing fire fighters?
"Mr. Ford,
I is a shame that members of the oakville republican club are trying to come to your town and run it."
To whom would you refer? I am un-aware of any such nafarious plot to date.
If you can point me in the right direction I will be glad to look into it for all of us.
Tom Ford
So who gives the insurance rating? Does it actually mean anything? We say we have a better department. Why don't we have a better rating?
We say we have a better police department. Are we accredited yet? What does that get us if we are? How does Crestwood's crime index compare to it's neighbors?
Please provide some facts with sources if you've got them.
Tom,
You have a mistake in your post. I was there and the Mayor said nothing one way or the other about the offer from Mehlville. He made no public statement about his position. Listen to the tapes from the meeting, and please correct.
The reason crestwoo does not have better rating is because they haven't been evaluated in some time. I am told that is quite normal. They were just evaluated and are awaiting scores. When was last time Mehlville was tested?
Why don't you ask them?
The ISO (Insurance Service Organization) establishes a rating for fire departments and fire districts with regards to their staffing, equipment, water supply, etc. The scale is 1-10, with 1 being the best. Mehlville is rated at a 3 and just had the ISO rating given within the past 5 years. In the area, there is only one #1 and that is the St. Louis City Fire Department. I'm not sure what Crestwood Fire Department's ranking is. However, with all that said, most insurance companies now go by a loss ratio per zip code and have been getting away from the ISO rating. I hope this was helpful.
Yeah, so much for cost savings in Crestwood. I read this week's call, and we are replacing the economic development director's position with something called a management analyst, in order to promote the current intern. Then they want to hire a new intern to replace her?????
Hellooo........the city is heavy on administrative employees now, MORE THAN IT'S EVER HAD. What do we need a management analyst for? I guess somebody should be analyzing what all those folks are doing, because I'm hard-pressed to see that much is being done, other than empire building.
It is the same old story. The C/A will give you some lame story as to why he needs all of these peole in his office. It shows me the city leaders aren't worried about the money.
I know we lost another police officer last month. Havent' heard any news of replacement of his postion. Maybe that's why the C/A is making two postions in his office. Mean while little to no rasie's in Crestwood for employee's. That's why the officer left because he could go to Des Peres and make more money in a year or two with better benifits. We lost yet another experiense officer. I wonder how the other departments are doing? It's really sad, but the storm isn't even hear yet. Hold on folks.
5:49 PM blogger: Did you know that Des Peres is a "dual job city?" In other words, you may have to be a fireman one day and police the next (cross training.) That's why they pay better than we do.
The Crestwood crime level is very low compared to, say, Webster Groves, or Maplewood, so Crestwood may not have the "action" some of the younger officers want.
That said, in my opinion the Crestwood Police Department, the Chief, and command staff officers are doing a great job with little or no thanks from us!
The next time you see one of our officers (or firemen for that matter,) please thank them for the job they are willing to do for you and me!
Tom Ford
12:41 PM blogger: I am told that we cary an ISO rating of 4. However we were just evaluated, and this may well improve.
Let's wait for the results to be published soon!
Tom Ford
Gee wiz "kiddies" you have once again showen your "Liberal" stripe by posting on the "truth detector?" comment's about me, and the Mayor.
Nice try, but you wouldent know the truth if it hit you up side your head! Politics is your "lame game," nothing more, nothing less!
Tom Ford
Mr. Ford, Des Peres is a public safety department meaning they do everything in a 24 hour shift. However the mall officer's are just that until a postion opens up on the fire side. If they want or if they are selected then they can go and do both jobs.
Lets take Kirkwood Police then with a patrolman with 10 years experinece like the officer we just lost. He would make 63,500.00 and they don't do both jobs.
If you haven't notice there are very few officer's at Crestwood with 10 years or less. Most officer's and city personel or looking towards retirement. If you want to thank the police or the rest of the employee's make up for the last five years of a one percent raise and a 450.00 bonus.
I agree that city employees should get raises and be paid well. But I think Mr. Ford was saying that a simple "thank you" to a Crestwood police officer or fire fighter would go a long way. I have relatives who are policemen. When they get a "thank you for your service", it really makes their day. Sure, a raise would be great. No one would argue that. But our city employees - all of them - need to know they are appreciated. They provide the services, and they provide them well.
I agree that city employees should get raises and be paid well. But I think Mr. Ford was saying that a simple "thank you" to a Crestwood police officer or fire fighter would go a long way. I have relatives who are police officers. When they get a "thank you for your service", it really makes their day. Sure, a raise would be great. No one would argue that. But our city employees - all of them - need to know they are appreciated. They provide the services, and they provide them very well.
Mr. Ford quotes the Mayor saying he is against the Mehlville offer and said so at last BOA meeting. I was there, the Mayor said nothing at that meeting either way about the offer.
We trust Tom to tell us the truth?
This city is so tight it squeaks constantly. And as Frank Sinatra said in his song "My Way", My friends the end is near, and so we face the final curtain. Who says Mr. Ford is the only one who can quote famous people?
7:55 AM blogger: You may be right about that, you see I got that from a person who attended also!
None the less, when I asked him how he felt about it the next day, he told me he was against it, period.
So while I may be wrong about the setting, I am right about the sentiment.
Tom Ford
Are you surprised that the Mayor doesn't come out in announce to the public he is against the Mehlville offer?
Afraid of the public backlash that may bring someone put of the wood pile to run against him in April?
What other quotes have you been wrong about but right about the "sentiment"?
3:23 PM Why is everything the mayor says or doesn't say somehow connected to running in 2008? Now all of a sudden you have to mark his words with that intention.
I guess then everything his opponent says or doesn't say should also be construed the same way right?
Oh No Probably Just The Mayor.
You are kidding aren't you? Surely you can see the actions Roy is taking in light of the political time line? Please tell tell me if you can't that you aren't old enough to vote.
Real question still remains, what other quotes has Mr. Ford gotten wrong on this blog?
6:41 PM blogger: NONE my friend, NONE!
Tom Ford
prove it, how can we be sure?
In reviewing comments about lack of raises for city employees, I'm shocked. One percent plus a meager bonus in 5 years??? Why in the world is the city making new positions when we can't give raises to our current employees?
How can anyone on this blog claim to care about their employees when these are the conditions they are working under? Nobody cares about our policemen and firemen, not if they think a 'thank you' is enough for doing their jobs.
If we could have really saved $200,000 going to Mehlville, perhpas we would have been doing our firemen a favor by getting them hired by another department and we could afford to give our policemen a raise.
Nah, can't do that, that would mean the Fire Fighters Union Local that supported Roy and Tom in their runs for office would lose memebership. Never lose sight of the political background that effects every thing that happens at City Hall these days. Plus the saved $200,000 could go other employee wage improvements.
With the Mall going to be sold within the next few weeks. this will all go away as the focus will once again be on TIF, TDD, etc.
8:40 PM blogger: This is still America my friend, the burden of proof is on you!
If you don't believe me just ask the City attorney, he may have to get back to you, but he will have an answer!
6:34 AM blogger: Do you really believe they would "save us any money in the long run" (2-5 years?)
And by the way, who is going tro hire some of our firemen who are over 45 years old? NO ONE, that's who. Now there will be families hurt by this, as well as your wallet! I can just see the fire district now salavating over the increased revenue they would get from Crestwood!
My friend there is no free lunch despite what some would have you bvelieve. A fire district is a business, pure and simple, their not in business to feel good inside but rather to prosper, and prosper they would at our expense!
Tom Ford
Yes I really believe that we will save $200,000 a yr. IF there were any increases from Mehlville, it would not come out of our pockets but the amount taken from the Fire Budget, so in 2009 the savings would be less, maybe a $190,000, but our taxes would not go up to provide this service until City could no longer afford the cost and then we would have to vote on what to do next.
Which
is the same thing that will happen if we don't take this offer, when sales tax income can no longer fund our City Fire dept. Only difference is by saying no to the offer we do not have the $200,000 this year to provide the much needed wage increases to the other City employees.
As to 45 year old fire fighter, that might lose they job. Do you think in 5 yrs when they are 50 they will be more wanted in the job market than at 45? Because, just as sure as the sun sets, we will not have the money in 5 years to operate as we are now. Interesting but your statement about hiring a 45 yr old fireman, the question I would ask is why not? And I think you know the answer as well as I do and that is they cost more and can not perform as a 25 year old can. Hence I believe we would get better fire service with younger firemen than older, base on you claim that no one would want to hire a 45 yr old.
Your support of the Firefighters local that represents SOME of the firemen of Crestwood is a very liberal pro union at any cost to the public one to take and I for one am surprised you would take it.
6:33, How do you know for certain that the city would save $200,000? Are you just taking this guys word for it or do you know something that everyone else doesn't? Have you talked personally with this Mr. Hilmer? Maybe you are Aaron Hilmer himself. Maybe you are Bonnie Stegman. Maybe you are Ed Ryan or this Jim Stonebraker I am starting to hear so much about. Maybe you are Mike Anthony (if you are, please let me know how I can get you to stop delivering your "newspaper" to my home and business). Or better yet, maybe you are a bitter ex-public official with an axe to grind. Yeah, I know term limits can really suck. Let me get this straight, you would want to take the "$200,000" that we would "save" and use it to give raises to the rest of the city employees. Yeah, that sounds like a swell idea. Where does this stop? Next thing you know, we start talking about outsourcing our Police Department. Pretty soon the Public Works department is gone too. Why even be a city then? I don't care what anybody says, I would muxh rather have my 45 year old firemen who has been a dedicated city employee that knows this town and its' people then some 25 year old kid fresh out of school with no experience who will probably move on to bigger and better things. I hear alot of those young guys over there aare doing that now because they can't working for that monarchy. Yeah, this all sounds like such a great idea.
How many of the voters in Crestwood took Roy's word that he had a plan? If they can do that, I can take Hilmer's word. You sound like a former big Labor Boss who lost his feather bedding job when he took over.
Not to many years ago I read in the paper where Bob Deuschmann of Crestwood said at a Board meeting he wanted to outsource the public works dept. to save money.
You throw so many stones I really question what's in it for you. $200,000 saved is $189,000 more than we have have now in the 2008 budget.
7:31 I agree with your comments 100%. But the blogger who is trying to equate this deal with "Roy having a plan" is so much garbage. Somebody just has to keep it up with Roy's plan that was not a plan. Some on this blog, always have to taint each comment with that bull, over and over again.
Keeping our fire department or not keeping it, is very, very serious.
7:43, So I guess I was right in my prediction of who you are. Term limits....what a bummer huh? Or are you his wife.
Is that all of you people care about is guessing who is the blogger???? Having just a little over $9,000 at the end of 2008 doesn't set well with me. According to the quarterly report, the GF is in the red. Does the current administration think they can even up the fund by year-end? If not I guess the GF will start in the red. There goes the $9,000 balance.
Poster 8:43 PM, November 18, 2007
"Why in the world is the city making new positions"
Where were you when Don Greer was creating $60k "Internet Specialist" positions and hiring the overpriced Finance Queen THREE Assistants while the same time preaching we were broke and giving his lawyer buddy another $500k for a bogus lawsuit?
So what does where I was then have to do with what we are talking about now, the Mehlville fire protection issue?
11:56 Well I for one will fight tooth and nail to keep our firefighters. I don't want any of them to loose their jobs no matter what age they are. They are the best, in my view and have saved lives.
We have always had the best firefighters/paramedics as well as outstanding leadership. Chief Kramer was an awesome person and trained his people well and Karl Kestler learned from him. Karl is a great leader and very qualified for what he does and I take my hat off to him.
I do not want to see Mehlville coming in at all. They are making this move because they know we are vunerable right now. Sometimes things are better left as they are.
Mehlville Fire Protection is like so many other entities, they want the power and the money.
If you or your children have ever toured our fire department, you too would be proud. I say leave us alone. We don't need any more intrusion. If you can be bought with money, then you too can be bought by 30 pieces of silver.
poster 11:56,
Hey I don't want to loose any of the great services we have in Crestwood. It is just a matter of time before something will get cut. The mall isn't coming back to the glory days. If something does happen there, it will not bring in the money it once did. When something does happen at the mall it will be 3-5 years before we see somthing developed.
With that being said with nobody wanting taxes raised to a point where we can off set the mall and pay the employee's what they haven't recieved in the last five years. It will be to late to recover, the employee's will continue to leave and find better jobs. Lets face it drive to Kirkwood, Sunset and Webster Groves. They are out building Crestwood by leaps and bond with new commerical business.
I just hope we can wait it out or someone comes up with an aggressive plan to turn us around.
waiting and hoping is a waste of youir time, the rest of the world has passed Crestwood by. Take the offer now before they withdraw it and we have to fork over even more $$$
Once city services are gone they are gone forever. The taxes that the citizens of Crestwood pay are the lowest in St.Louis County. Talk to the residents of Fenton and ask them how they like St.Louis County Police versus what they once had,their own city police department.
An open letter to all those who would disband our fire department, and bring in Mehlville.
I have done the best I can to tell you what WILL happen in the future if we are foolish enough to bring this "wolf in sheeps clothing" into our firehouse!
It will all be very smooth sailing the first year (we will have a one year contract.) We will sell all of our equipment (we won't need it remember,) the fire district will hire one or two of our firemen, and all will be well!
Now were into year two, and a new contract will be put before the BOA, however this one will show a much higher cost to the City due to "fuel costs, training, equipment up-date," and what ever they think we will buy!
Now were not as happy as we were, but gee, we sold all of the equipment, the troop's are gone, and were stuck with whatever the "benovelent" fire district want's to do, because to go elsewhere will cost eaven more!
Now you needen't believe me, however if you don't why not ask someone who has seen it happen as I have, Alderman Roby? We both know the "take over methods" used by the County Police, and fire districts, we have seen it up close and personal!
The holidays are going to happen very soon, as will the "town hall meeting" that will deal with this in January! At that time we will all have the chance to "put our two cents in," and as for me, I plan to be on the right side, the side of our Crestwood Fire Department!
Tom Ford
Loser.
Fine, lets just call county, Kirkwood, and Webster about Police protection then too. Might as well. Apparently everything is on the table.
"Anonymous said...
Loser."
10:59 PM, November 20, 2007
Very interesting indeed my friend! Lets see now, I have a blog (over 68,000 readers,) you don't!
I am very proud of what I stand for, and my name and place it on here every time I post, you arn't, and you don't.
I give you reasons why I feel as I do, you don't.
We could go on forever because as everyone knows a "looser" is one who never tries, is afraid to say who they are, and generally is not very brave at all!
In your case, you may be right, you seem to add up all across the board. But don't wory, looser or not we still love and respect you here!
Tom Ford
Don't worry Tom, that was either Tim T or Karen T. They are just rying to ruffle feathers.
12:09 AM blogger: Whomever it is they can't "ruffel any feather's" with inane remarks like that!
Tom Ford
What I don't understand is why anyone who dislikes this blog so much that they have to vent their anger all the time, is always reading it?
Ah yes the age old question, why indeed?
I think it's nothing more than the old "moth to flame" psychosis, or it could be that they are lonely.
Either way, I welcome them, and wish them a very happy Thanksgiving!
Tom Ford
It is good to hear from all sides of this issue. This Fire Dept. issue. I just wish ALL the things about our city government that were either suspicious or were unworthy of our residents would have come to the fore this fast. With this spirit. This I assume is because there is a union involved. This worries me. I am inclined to think that our police dept. is a lot more inclined to be municipal minded. No one ever said municipal employment would make one rich or powerful. I wonder why a union is needed for municipal service period. What is the deal here?
I am wary of any blogger who says to check out other cities with other kinds of service than ours, i.e Fenton, etc. Does this mean we are utopia and the other cities are being denied quality and dedication? What is the sense of bad rapping? Who is the authority of all this? What is the point of being so negative about the way other regions are served? Where is the living proof? In other words, a little too much push is being put on this subject by locals primarily interested in preserving status quo. Which I would readily agree with but not by trying to establish that we are the "only" system that counts.
Talk of "take overs" and how unhappy all these other cities should be with their unsatisfactory service somehow makes it seem all these people are being cheated. This is not a good way to sell an idea. If it were true, then it is time for all other districts to big look see and an overhaul. And, for us to never ever even consider moving out of Crestwood to one of these neglected poorly serviced cities. God forbid.
I did not know FireFighters and Friends played pool this way. Now I know. This steel toed stance on why we should not ever even consider alternatives scares me. Had I not read all these comments of protective custody of our F. Dept., I would be first in line to say how much I appreciate our department, which I do, but if I have to be force fed this as some kind of insurance for them, I get weak kneed.
7:51 Thank you thank you, thank you! A voice of reason at last.
7:51 PM Weak in the knees? OK I see you point but I still say that you have to wonder why Mehlville has extended their hand out to us when they never did it before.
Maybe it would be good, but I sure don't want to jump in their lap just yet.
When you are down on your luck and someone big company offers you a credit card with zero % to pay off all your bills, are you the one who subscribes to it? Do you read the fine print. Mehlville could very well be interested in us to further themselves along the road.
I don't mean to criticize anybody from that fire protection district. It just seems to make more sense to proceed softly and carry a big stick.
What is Crestwood's big stick? We have none, we are going to be broke by this time next year.
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