Who and what makes up Crestwood, the last census report!
While we look toward the sale of the Plaza (which may be VERY close,) I thought it would be interesting to take a look at what we have to offer. If you would please click on the header you will be directed to the latest census report available.
It looks to me that we have a lot going for us in the way of demographics that should attract great business to Crestwood. It will be interesting when it all shakes out to see what will become of the old plaza, will we see mixed use, retail only, or up-scale condos? Well, one thing is for sure, it will bring a renaissance to Crestwood that hasn't been seen in some time!
May we please have your thoughts on this?
Tom Ford
NO.449
It looks to me that we have a lot going for us in the way of demographics that should attract great business to Crestwood. It will be interesting when it all shakes out to see what will become of the old plaza, will we see mixed use, retail only, or up-scale condos? Well, one thing is for sure, it will bring a renaissance to Crestwood that hasn't been seen in some time!
May we please have your thoughts on this?
Tom Ford
NO.449
posted by Crestwood Independent at 14:10
115 Comments:
I wish it could be an indoor mall - just updated. We are not that close to the other malls - I can't understand why the citizens of Crestwood, Kirkwood, Webster, & Sunset Hills wouldn't want to shop at a mall so close to home. And if it had some interesting places the other malls didn't have, we could bring in people from further out. I actually like the layout of Crestwood mall way better than the Galleria or new West County malls. Simple and convenient is good. The trend towards outdoor malls seems so silly to me - in St. Louis we have a lot of the year when it is very hot, or very cold, or raining, snowing, etc. Maybe it makes sense in other parts of the country, but I don't see it making a lot of sense here. In 10 years there will be another trend back to enclosed malls when people realize it is much more convenient and comfortable to be out of the weather. One of the things I originally liked about living in Crestwood was the mall. There are plenty of Walmarts and other discount stores very nearby - we don't need more of that - and I don't think the area could support more of the same.
Indoor malls are dying bread to begin with.
Crestwood Mall is sandwiched between two malls that are very up-to-date and located on Interstate Highways.... Two things that Crestwood is not.
Factor in, Crestwood Mall is landlocked and any redevelopment will be very expensive... tear down and rebuild structured parking. The stars are not aligning to equal a new indoor mall.
Crestwood Mall is likely to become condos with some retail. Maybe a couple of smaller “Box” stores mixed in. More bodies will help with the sales tax sharing, but in the short term we are in for a bumpy ride. When the new owner starts tearing down, what is going to pay the bills?
10:07 am It's not "what" will pay the bills it's "who" will pay the bills. Answer. We will with higher property taxes which is OK with me. Small price to pay to keep what we have as far as our public safety employees and good public works employees who snow plow, keep our streets and sidewalks in good condition, and our parks.
How much is a small increase?
Are you sure that all the cuts at City Hall that can be made have been?
"keep our streets and sidewalks in good condition..."
11:10 AM, January 14, 2008
A lot of our streets are crumbling.
Don't get me wrong, some are in excellent shape, but others are riddled with potholes.
I was surprised to find out the staff at the community center has been cut to less than half and it is only open on Saturday mornings right now for the whole weekend. We have a great facility but none of us can use it because the city can't pay people to keep it open.
I don't think Crestwood is sandwiched between 2 malls - they are not that close - but it is closely surrounded by tons of box stores.
"I don't think Crestwood is sandwiched between 2 malls - they are not that close - but it is closely surrounded by tons of box stores."
Both West County and South County Mall's Trade Areas substantially overlap into Crestwood Mall's. Both are up-to-date and have at least 3 anchor stores. Both are on interstate highways. Again Crestwood has none of these.
Crestwood Mall served a niche for many years. Being located in the middle of many rooftops with young families. Drawing people from the fringes of suburbia that didn’t have any other options... Been to Gravois Bluff’s lately?
The market has changed and Crestwood needs to too. Not room for three Super Regional Malls in trade areas whose demographics are getting older and few new rooftops are going up. The property that the mall sets still has value and a use, just not as a Super Regional Mall generating millions of dollars in sales tax to pay our bills.
"I was surprised to find out the staff at the community center has been cut to less than half .."
Where have you been????????
2:40 PM The City can cut positions to the bare bones, but it still isn't going to keep the city afloat.
We always counted on sales tax to sustain us all these years. Now, instead of putting all our efforts in increasing the businesses especially at the Watson Road Corridor, we should learn our lesson and never just depend on that to pay the bills. Of course it needs to be considered but we need a tax increase too, and "small" is what we had for years.
We should take a look at how much things have increased over the last 25 years to figure out the percentage.
Our property tax is so insufficient and small that we need to increase it according to how much everything else has increased. How much? Form a committee of aldermen and knowledgeable residents who can assist us. They can do comparables and research it. There are many intelligent individuals in this town who can help. We need to start somewhere.
5:11 PM
Crestwood's financial troubles started when the City "had" money. You can raise our taxes until you are blue in the face. It does nothing to solve fiscal irresponsibility.
Neighboring communities pay higher taxes for a number of different reasons. As long as Crestwood "gives up" sales taxes to other municipalities in the tax pool, why should we raise our own taxes? Muni Tax Rate
Since you are not providing any facts as to why you think we need to pay more taxes, I can only make the assumption that you are basing this on your emotions. "Show us" some good reasons.
I find it troubling that the newest Crestwood Newsletter gives credit to the City for the long list of new developments in Crestwood. The developments without tax assistance were not "aided or courted" by the City?
I love Crestwood Swim Club
Gravois Bluffs - let's see, they have Kohls, Best Buy, Walmart, Target, Gordmans, TJ Maxx, Value City...Sound familiar? I have all of those within 2-3 miles of my Crestwood home too - it is not the same type of retail stores that you find at a mall, and we already have plenty of these kinds of stores. We need something more unique that will bring people in.
I don't think any of you guys even shop at malls - I think your wives buy all your clothes. The malls that are updated are hardly dying.
How's that new Ace Hardware doing 2 miles from Lowes and Home Depot?
1:02. How is Ace doing. Well, very limited stock, higher prices. You can not compete with the big boys. And as far as the new development on Watson, little to no return in tax dollars. Office buildings don't cut it.
My 2 cents: Public Works is not cost effective. the city can contract out all of the work/eqipment for a lot less dollars (not to mention the liability & workers comp savings)
Poster 1:02 AM, January 15, 2008
Sorry, you don't seem to understand today's retail marketplace. Kohl's, Target etc. are in and Macy's, Dillard's and to a lesser extent Sears are out.... especially in submarkets like Crestwood. Without these anchors those "other" stores you like won't be coming back and you will need to travel south or west to find them.
I just don't see professional people wearing clothes from Target to work - and most kids don't want to be seen in Target clothes at school - it's great for some things, but I can't believe the more upscale stores are "out". It all depends what clientelle you are seeking - the ones with money would be good.
9:20 a So because we know that we had fiscal responsibility in the past and when we had money, it was spent irresponsibly, we should punish ourselves now by keeping the same low rate that we had 30 years ago and do nothing?
It is because we did nothing for 30years except spend like we were millionaires that we need to do something now. People got their sidewalks replaced when it wasn't needed because board members made promises to people to get votes. And the beat went on and on and nobody asked why.
You say, we can tax until we are blue in the face? Then we can also keep trying to find little ways to conserve while everything we need to do to keep what we have increases in price, like building maintenance and keeping police and fire.
What did you pay for a pound of hamburger 30 years ago? What do you pay now for the same thing? More or less?
Do you think that old snow plow that keeps us going through the winter months is going to keep plowing? How about maintenance on our police equipment and fire equipment, how about trucks and maintenance on Public Works equipment? Is that the same price that we paid 30 years ago?
I don't need to give you reasons why we need a tax increase. Common sense should tell you. Better yet, the elected officials should tell you, if they finally bite the bullet and admit we need help to continue into this 21 Century.
Why would any truly upscale clothing stores or any other truly upscale retailer come to Crestwood when more than half of the population is older than 50 and unwilling to shoulder another $1000 per year in taxes to help maintain basic services? Get real.
By upscale I don't mean Neiman Marcus. Just something besides discount stores. The less Crestwood has to offer the young professional people you want to attract, the more it will decline. Who do you want to take the place of the 50% of our population that are elderly?
In your line of thinking, do you really think anyone is going to buy upscale condos in Crestwood - the land of the elderly poor people? Maybe we should just make the mall into a nursing home.
let's get real. Crestwood is never going to be upscale to achieve expensive retail like Neiman Marcus, but all young people who reside here will not be upscale professionals either. There are those who are white collar and blue collar workers that live here. And several of our bigger more expensive homes are still holding their value in Wards 3 and 4. Who says it is necessary to have all expensive homes in Crestwood to thrive. We can still be a median income household city and don't need to have high end retail to keep it that way.
People who think that Crestwood will be Ladue or Frontenac need to move out. We don't need expensive retail to exist. Let's face it, there are lot more people who do not have six-figure incomes out here than those who have.
But that doesn't mean that only thrift stores will want to do business here.
Maybe we won't attract expensive retail but again, we shouldn't be concentrating only on sales tax. We have to find other ways to exist. We made that mistake for years now let's get out of that mind set just a bit.
We should be looking at a property tax increase. Can't you see that all we have done all these years is rely on one thing to sustain us and that was sales tax. See what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket. That's why people end up in Bankrupsy Court.
We need to keep an eye open on our retail but need some other means of keeping affloat, or we will end up being forced to take any type of business that comes along because we will be between a rock and a hard place. If everybody would cooperate, we can get outselves out of the position that we have to settle for second-rate or cheap stores. But we have to be willing to pay more per household. Our property tax is so low now, we could up it substantially, and still be the lowest in the County.
The mayor has stated that no increase in taxes is needed and more cuts can be made. That comment was made several months ago and I have not seen or heard of any additional cuts. Anyone else hear anything??
9:33 AM, January 15, 2008
"I just don't see professional people wearing clothes from Target to work - and most kids don't want to be seen in Target clothes at school"
How about Kohl's? Oops, we should have let them go to Kirkwood!
Obviously Crestwood will never be Ladue, nor would we want it to be. I hope whatever happens with the mall will attract more people to Crestwood to spend their money - AND will offer something of value to our community in addition to sales tax. Crestwood has appeared to be a pretty sorry place in the newspapers over the past couple of years - hope this turns around too.
Poster 2:13, I forgot about that, I haven't heard a thing about what he said then, anyone else heard anything?
Also, we need the Salvation Store to open, the fact that it hasn't is kind of strange when so many people wanted it so bad.
Salvation Store: pure politics
2:13, Your first mistake is to believe a word the mayor says.
Fellow bloggers: I will not be able to post here for a short while, so I leave the blog in your capable hands!
please remember that this is a family blog, so I ask that you not use inappropriate language, and give each other a break in my absence.
Remember, WWJW (what would John Wayne do!)
"Adios Amigos!"
Tom Ford
I keep hearing about all the cuts and then everytime I turn around there is a new employee up at city hall. I just want to know what they are all doing and what exactly the City Administrator does with his time. Who all were cut and who does what nowdays? It is all entirely too vague. Our city has not grown leaps and bounds, but it has more employees than it had 30 years ago (not factoring in Whitecliff which we did not have then). Do we have more chiefs than indians?
Everyone I know, loves Target and wanted Target gift cards for gifts.
They all live in upscale cities. Whatever that means. Business casual is still around, too. But, high end must go elsewhere, just as do those in Webster and Kirkwood. What happened to the expertise of the so called Development person who left to go to another city??? How much did she make and how much skeedaddling did she do to romance say such as a TJ Maxx or Target during her tenure, in other words, how much money did we waste on a position which accomplished nothing? Even though we don't have glamour stores up and down our part of Watson, these new businesses mentioned in newsletter were promising and actually nice as they present a better picture than if they were not there. I don't see where any of them are not worthy. I love Barnes and Noble, and Pasta House; Best Buy, the grocery stores, Walgreens, the Shoe Store, Starbucks, Pizza Hut, Beauty Shops; all our commerce is good. We can't go back in time, we must live with what we have. We also must realize that there are those who want to belittle seniors, city services or officials or plant the kiss of death on our city. But they don't bother me at all. In this present housing and loan debacle, they will probably have to stick around longer, so they might as well become part of the solution rather than keep up their senseless crabbing.
Crestwood does have mixed housing, so do all nearby cities. But housing here is solid and stable and people still choose to live here for the fact it is in a good suburbial neighborhood and in a very good school district, neary highways. etc.
I am not crazy about outdoor malls. Too cold or too hot, in and out of stores. There has to be a way to sustain and glamorize and capitalize our indoor mall which could end up the only one in st. louis. Surely there are other instances in other cities like ours that have dealt with a degree of rust spots. It needs a good imagination and strong impetus from a creative developer. We should go for savvy as soon as we can find it.
Property taxes went up 22% or more this time and property value not a dime and stagnant. Introducing a new tax without iron clad promises and proof costs are cut to the bone will be necessary. Also, why can't the police and fire work 7-3, 3-11 and 11-7?
Innovation will have to take place first and if it is sound, and only then, can we entertain thoughts of a tax increase. "We cannot just think I can, we must thought I could."
Webster Groves and Kirkwood do not have high end stores. But they pay more in property taxes.
As previously mentioned, I also think that we should find ways to cut the budget. But I am realistic enough to see that in of itself, that it isn't going to get us back on track long term because it isn't going to generate the revenue that we need to turn around.
I also wonder where the budget cuts are being done. And I think that is a good question to ask the CA at the town hall meetings.
A property tax increase will happen and it is inevitable. It is going to happen whether this mayor or the next mayor or the same mayor is in office for the next three years. To deny it, to fight it, to say it won't happen is just being foolish. There is no other way.
If you don't agree, that's OK. All I am saying is that if you think that it is not the way to get us back on track, tell me another way. Otherwise, I will see us going to the County Government. Then we will have no control over anything anymore and we will pay more in taxes to them instead of paying them to better Crestwood. It makes sense to me.
"Otherwise, I will see us going to the County Government. Then we will have no control over anything anymore and we will pay more in taxes to them instead of paying them to better Crestwood."
Do you not think that the county residents have no say in their government?
Pay more taxes to "them" - that's called paying for services, whether it is "them" or our own police and fire.
11:30 AM, January 15, 2008
First of all, just because your tax rate has not changed much does not mean the City is not collecting more taxes from you. You can increase the tax rate or increase the valuation of your property. You take your pick. It's still an increase.
1. Has your property tax bill not increased?
2. Does the City not collect Taxes on your Utilities? Have your utility bills increased?
3. Does the City collect 1.5% more tax on purchases within Crestwood?
You still don't feel like you are paying your fair share?
Poor leadership has told us we needed a new swimming pool instead of fixing our streets and stormwater projects.
Poor leadership has told us that annexation was a good thing. Except now we have to pay ever increasing Affton Fire Taxes and now we have to maintain a lot more streets.
We have all new police cars, a new radio system for the police, pay raises, new employees, very affordable health plans for the employees, wi-fi at the pool, A "Store", City cars for high ranking employees and an inefficient new vehicle for the public works department.
What makes you think that if we give them a new bucket full of money that they are going to "fix" what needs fixing?
I venture to guess that the very low scale Harbor Freight Tools gives Ace a run for it's money in tax revenue generated.
And no tax incentives required...
10:04 PM OK Fine. You like the idea of being part of St. Louis County? Good for you!
You will have the County Police rather than our own. And if you think you have no voice in this town, wait until you try to voice your issues to the County Council. And if you would be happier paying more taxes to them, terrific!
If that's what you and other people think would be better for Crestwood, so be it. We will give up everything then, is that it? Even our community center, our Public Works Department, etc.
Then try getting a County cop to respond to a problem and see how long it takes for them to arrive.
Try getting a paramedic to respond to your 911 Call and see what their response time is and how long it takes them to get to your home.
The response time might not be an issue now but if you are the one who can't breath because you are having a heart attack, and there is nobody around to help, the response time may cost you your life.
If you would rather pay extra taxes to the County, and have no problem dismantling our police and fire services, and our whole city structure, so be it. I just don't feel it makes good sense.
10:22 PM What makes you think that giving them a "bucket of money" won't help? We haven't done it in a trillion years so how would we know????
Look, this town doesn't know how to handle anything other than sales tax. I am sick of it. Sure we have had bad leadership and I agree 100%. And those who oppose this mayor, will tell you it is still bad. Well it ain't great but it's better than before.
But you have to throw in the factor that those who opposed this mayor from the get go wouldn't throw him a bone for any reason much less right before his re-election.
However, there are some things to consider now. We have new people on the board of aldermen who are honest and sincere. They are trying to do their best.
Before then we had a bunch of morons listening to a sick city administrator whose main goal was chasing women, including secretaries, and picking and choosing which foot soldiers to keep and which to fire.
We will also have town hall meetings where people can get answers to questions.
Generally, I don't think residents want to change our way of life, our services, our form of government. But we are coming down off a really bad former administration, with leadership who resigned, sued, left in a huff with some generous travel money and ruled in secrecy and with paper shreddings and fancy cars and harrassment suits and wasted time and money on a pipe dream of a city hall redo to the tune of 14 Mil, which the mere thought of was symbolic of corruption and power mongering. Not to mention trying to change a charter, which would benefit them only to not be able to fool the public. Then we must consider all the political vindictiveness that has reared its ugly jealous head since. They ran through money like it was printed in the back, and paid legal bills for which there was no accountability. They had archtiect fees and change orders and approved a totally inappropriate private swim club. A travesty having stacked the deck.
We have been hearing that city hall has been cutting jobs, but in actuality how many, how much savings and which jobs. Balancing the budget took it turns and twists, didn't it? We never found out for sure what was done to overcome the awful audits we had in the past. In other words, the present has a lot of baggage from the past and sadly it has staying power. Lesson learned!! Heaping on promises and visions of things moving along is great, if true. But it is time for reality now. We must have someone who when they balance the books, they are balanced, regardless of whether the news is good or bad. No more blue sky. People probably would not object to a tax increase, just so long as the BOA and the CA are in sync and are making every effort to overcome all our handicaps and consider all our possibilities. The time for politics is OVER. Our Mayor is not kryptonite, he and his board are most apt to keep us moving forward without all the sarcasm and childishness which so many on this blog seem to enjoy. How very sad. Compared to the past, we are infinitely better off. Now we need for the trust factor to kick in. And we need to remember there is a substantially good reason why it ever was in doubt. Most of us are poised to recognize if politics again slips into our scene. WE are watching and listening. The future of our city depends on working as a unit. Coming to decisions together! Reverting back to practices of the past will sink the boat.
I will trust City Hall and believe that with this Administration the time for POLITICS IS over, when we have another audit and are allowed to vote on the MFPD offer.
8:46 am Another audit? Maybe. But to vote on the Mehlville deal, tells me that you would be willing to give up our fire safety personnel that have done a wonderful job through the years. You make it sound like you want to do this because it is the democratic thing to do with our residents voting on it. But I see it for what it is.
You have no problem allowing Mehlville to take over because the Fire Department backed Roy Robinson for mayor and, see, the politics is still going on like I said.
You would be willing to put these people out of a job when they have served the City very well.
Therefore, since you have no support for them, perhaps we can give up our police department and pay the County to take over as well. Or is that different?
You and Greer, two peas in a pod. Let's build a 14 million dollar police facility for HIS ARMY, and to heck with the Fire Department.
I hope that you don't run for mayor cause we will have more of this manure to contend with. You don't fool me. There is no way you really care about Crestwood. You are still waving the flag of opression on City Hall, just like your dictator Don Greer did to get what he wanted.
Poor leadership has told us we needed a new swimming pool instead of fixing our streets and stormwater projects.
Sorry, somehow, I think if we "Fixed" a 30 year old pool you would have been compalining about about that too. The new pool is entirely funded out of the Parks Sales Tax which is restricted to parks and stromwater. You can't use it on streets.
Poor leadership has told us we needed a new swimming pool instead of fixing our streets and stormwater projects.
Sorry, somehow, I think if we "Fixed" a 30 year old pool you would have been compalining about about that too. The new pool is entirely funded out of the Parks Sales Tax which is restricted to parks and stromwater. You can't use it on streets.
I will agree with you the annexation turned out to be a bummer because we got JIMBO Roberston as Mayor.
Well said 10:26. Another Audit? That will cost money to tell us what we already know (that times are tight and we are working our way back). Put the the Mehlville Fire offer to the voters. That will also cost us money and tell us what we already know. The voters will not stand for giving up control of our Fire Department!
11:02 AM I agree with you. The audit and vote on Mehlville will indeed cost more money. But you need to remember who made that comment. That person is totally enamoured with the Fagan/Robertson/Greer pact. That's the reason for the comment in the first place. You will never, ever get them to admit that this administration may not be the best for sure, but it is better than what we had. The persons involved in the previous administration will never admit they handed the city over to the wrong people on a silver platter.
Just be prepared when the roaches come out of the woodwork for the Mayoral election.
One roach has already filed.
So if our Fire Dept is so important then why are you afraid to allow the voters to have their say? I would think you who support our local fire dept would have no problems defeating any thing that would change our current form of protection? Are you afraid that to find you are not in the majority on this and that's why you dont want the citizens to vote?
There is no extra cost if it is on a regular ballot like the one scheduled for April.
Speaking of Audit costs,why bring that up now? Where you ok with the costs when it was for another Administration? Are you sure your not showing your political side instead of doing what is best for the City?
So be it then. Have your vote and have your audit. I am not afraid of either? You are the one who feels these things need to be done. I have no reason to feel they are needed beause I feel most citizens are happy with what they have. You are the one who needs to be reassured. All you want to do is delay the process and to me that seems more like a political agenda than mine.
I have no doubts in my mind. You seem to be the "doubting Thomas". I will be there on voting day no matter what.
"All you want to do is delay the process"
You must be referring to Miguel - always wanting to delay.......
Our local paramedics have been to our house over 50 times in the last 6 years for our disabled daughter. Minutes count in these situations, and the Crestwood paramedics have been wonderful. Many of them know our daughter and her history, which is a huge help in emergency situations. I hope we can keep our own fire and police.
But I would also like some of the other services back, like the community center.
The money has to come from somewhere. Did Crestwood make more money from our property taxes when they went up in 2007?
1:38
Miguel asks questions, analyzes data, digs deep. How refreshing.
If previous aldermen did that, maybe, just maybe Crestwood wouldn't have been hit so hard financially.
2:13 PM I agree.
I just wish that others would share their stories regarding how the paramedics saved their lives on this blog.
The average person has no clue how these dedicated people have saved lives and have assisted us for years. They need us to show our appreciation, not put them out of a job. What's next our police force?
There are not many people who would do what our fire and police officers do every day. I know I couldn't do it. I wish some people would speak up and tell their stories. Thank you letters pour into the Fire Department and Police Department every day from people who express their gratefulness. They protect and serve, a job not for the cowardly or the skidish.
Our property taxes have never gone up in any significant way. It used to be 25 cents per 100.00 assessed valuation. Now it is 30 cents, I think. A lot of what we pay on our taxes goes to other things like the Lindbergh School District. Some cities pay over 1.00 or more for the same services for which we have been paying very little for years.
I do not want the Mehlville Fire Protection District to come in and take over. It's the principle of the thing. When we were in the "clover" with lots of money, these people saved lives in Crestwood and still do. Now we are hurting for money, and to use a metaphor, some want to sell man's best friend who protected us, who was loyal to us, fought fires and kept us out of harms way. Some reward for loyalty. Some appreciation.
Our Fire Chief is one of the most upstanding young men I know and he was taught by Chief Kramer who was the epitimy of high standards. Our Assistant Chief has been part of our Fire Department for years and worked his way through the rank and file. They are both consciencious and loyal to this town. And some want to trade them and their people for "30 pieces of silver".
There is no one in the Mehlville Fire District who could come close to their standards or those of our firefighter/paramedics.
And to go one step further, that is equally true with our police department. No way do I want County to take over Crestwood. I guess that would be next huh? We have a great Chief and his assistants, and wonderful police officers who are armed to protect us from those who do nothing but prey on innocent people. Could you do that? No County cops for me! I want to keep what we have.
I just hope and pray that the good people in this town who are just ordinary people with ordinary lives can keep what we have. And those who don't feel the same, can live in Mehlville or St. Louis County for all I care! A bird in the hand; You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
All of what you say about our current Fire service is true, but does that mean we can still afford them?
The Mayor said we didn't heed a tax increase. The City has a surplus of money in the General Fund which pays in part, the salary of the firemen. The Mayor has said we don't need to accept the offer from MFPD that would save City $200,000 in 2008.
So what is the big worry about voting for or against the MFPD offer? We don't need it just like we don't need a tax increase.
Tom,
I was at the music store today and they told me a sex shop, like the one in Fenton is going in next store. I drove buy and work has been occuring. I notice the walls are pink inside. Do you know or heard anything about this?
4:25 PM Sounds good to me. If you are being sarcastic about what "the mayor says", I still don't care cause at least you agree we don't need to go with Mehlville. However, I do believe that there are people out there that are willing to give up our Fire Dept. for the Mehlville offer.
As far as a property tax increase, in my opinion, it will happen. Maybe not now but it will happen in the near future. It's just a matter of time. And after the dust settles on exactly what our situation is, I believe in my heart that if we indeed need a tax increase to keep what we have, the people will do it.
So how much more many do you want to donate to the City and what are they going to give you that you don't already have?
Also, you need to stand up against any tax tools handed out for the Mall. If we are going to pay more taxes it's not going to be because the new Mall owners go tax free.
Let's don't forget the new cell phone tax the Municipal league has extorted for us as another tax increase we did not vote on.
Actually the Park and Stormwater tax could technically cover gutters that control stormwater which are part of a street. But that's not the point. I believe the point being made was the leadership was pushing amenities over infrastructure. The pitch for the pool was to compete with cities like St. Peters, not replace a deteriorating pool.
They could have repaired or replaced the old pool for significantly less money if it was damaged. That obviously was not the intent.
Sunset Hills is drinking the Kool-Aid now and is gunning for a complex to put all other municipalities to shame with a 1/2 cent sales tax. If they only new (or shared) the long term hidden costs.
5:11 PM, January 16, 2008
From today's St. Louis Post Dispatch - website address http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/B1AA4496D8E6C371862573D200181B25?OpenDocument
"CRESTWOOD: Sex boutique sues over business license
01/16/2008
The Johnny Vegas chain of sex-oriented stores is suing Crestwood over the city's refusal to grant a business license.
The suit, made public Tuesday in U.S. District Court in St. Louis, seeks an order barring enforcement of ordinances it says are an unconstitutional infringement on the sale of protected materials.
The suit says the city claimed that zoning does not allow the license.
The boutique has faced controversy in other communities where it has built stores despite resistance, including Alton in 2005."
Trailer parks are legal in this country too but it's probably not the best thing to have around when you are trying to reverse a depressed retail area.
We'll see how many business leaders come out to protect their investment in the community. It was not too long ago that we saw a business protect their interests by buying property in Sunset Hills.
The Mayor said we didn't need a tax increase so that settles if for me. I will not vote for one until he says he is for a tax increase and explains where the surplus in the General Fund went.
They could have repaired or replaced the old pool for significantly less money if it was damaged. That obviously was not the intent.
You are correct, that wasn't the intent....there were many public meetings and a public vote on sales tax whose primary purpose was to replace the pool.
What was wrong with that? The pool was handled totally differntly from the Police Palace.... Don Greer wasn't pulling the strings behind the scenes.
I believe the point being made was the leadership was pushing amenities over infrastructure.
Really? I guess that $11,000,000+ in cash from the Capital Improvement Fund that was spent on streets wasn't for infastrucutre?
Residents were asked if the wanted to pass a sales tax to fund the construction of a new pool and park improvements. There were MANY public meetings and complete Master Plan done. This was a totally open process, unlike the Police Palace...
See that's the sad part about it. For that $11,000,000 the streets should be in better shape. But Uh oh, what happened? The previous public works director was let go because the money was poorly managed/spent...
And the standard process of telling bidders how much money you have to spend on a street repair project just seems wrong?
And voters were told they were getting a different pool design and an outdoor pavillion for concerts etc. and money for stormwater projects. But there was not enough money for all of that. So where are we on funding those stormwater projects?
To the undertaxed blogger: We did just vote for a tax rate increase in 2006?
So let met get this straight...we are getting a liquor store next to a children's venue, a sex shop near the mall, and then you can wind up your evening at the pink galleon?
HELLO...is ANYONE at city hall paying attention. I don't want to hear that they can't keep them out or that they'll bring in revenue. I don't see Kirkwood and Webster allowing these stores.
Sounds like Crestwood has become the dumping ground for stores nobody else wants. What element will these places bring in? Are we supposed to want to raise our children in a neighborhood with this type of business? We might as well move to East St. Louis.
I pray someone out there with more sense than Roy is running for mayor....they have my vote.
The previous public works director was let go because the money was poorly managed/spent...
Hi Timmy T. See that you are still drinking the Don Greer Kool-Aid!.
"And voters were told they were getting a different pool design and an outdoor pavillion for concerts etc. and money for stormwater projects."
Scaling back, when things come in over budget... that's a novel idea! Too bad we didn't do that on the Police Palace instead of spending $1,000,0000 on Architects trying to figure a way to get the biggest building that we possibly could.
"I believe the point being made was the leadership was pushing amenities over infrastructure."
Yea, I guess that office for Mr. Greer in the Police Palace... you know the one that was TWICE the size of any other office was "Infastructure". Please, Tim, give it a rest.
Roy was sucked into DG as well then as he voted to hire him as police chief when he was an Alderman. Roy ran against DG 3yrs ago when he ran for Mayor and seems to be doing it again. Wouldn't you like a PLAN B like Alderman Miguel suggested instead of no plan at all for future?
History, if you take the time to look for it on the City website, will show you that KENT was the C/A when the Police Station rebuild idea was started. History will show you when the Bonds salesperson came before the BOA to explain the way the Bonds were going to work that Maddox and I asked her and Kent and Matt C. if any vote we took that session locked the City into any thing. We were told no, it did not. Two weeks later the BOA voted against selling the Bonds because Maddox had suggested the City save the money instead of borrowing it through the sale of bonds. At that time the BOA was told by the Bond salesperson, Kent and Matt that we couldn't undo our last vote because "bonds had already been sold since the last meeting" due to our vote then.
Keep in mind at that time who our C/A was and that all our funds still being were blended into one. Only after the change in who the C/A was did the City's true financial condition known. After the bonds were sold and before the real financial condition was known.
History will show you that the BOA were told then that since the bonds were sold to defease them would cost the City's its credit rating. The BOA believed that since it was presented to us by outside experts from banks and lending institutions.
1. WHO ARE YOU, WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO SIGN YOUR NAME?
2. Someone posted my email and phone number on here, if you want to know the 2nd reason why I could care less, you can call or email me like Martha Duchild did (thank you Martha, it was a pleasure speaking with you) and we can have a nice first name conversation in which I will answer any question you ask that I know the answer to.
Until then, have a nice day.
tim trueblood
4:00 PM, January 10, 2008
8:52 & 8:59 None of the posts you claim I did are mine. I sign my posts.
Oh yes, one more thing, history will show that the police station and city hall were scaled back as the cost presented were more that the money on hand due to the sale of the bonds. That was done in open meetings several times, just review the minutes that are on line at the city website.
You know how to contact me, my email and phone number have been published on this website. To date no emails and just 1 phone call, Ms. Duchild, who I called back and spoke with. It's a lot more fun to post non and partical truths under the cover of anonymous than to stand up fopr your convections and let people know your name. So be it.
tim
9:54 Mr. Trueblood. You can say what you what, and you can tell us what you know, but if you think that this whole Police Facility was Kent's idea you are mistaken.
Greer was behind the idea for his dynasty and you and others should have known we were strapped for money because the Fire Department had to settle for a second hand fire truck instead of a big state of the art masterpiece.
Therein lies the difference between a chief that is out for the big and luxurious, and a chief who is satisfied with what he is given and is grateful for the betterment of the community.
You say blame this all on Kent, but Kent would have never thought this idea up himself. Kent was barely getting by physically and mentally. He was happy when any department head saved him from making decisions. Kent was far from looking into the future at that time. He just followed Greer's lead whatever it was and Greer stabbed him in the back as gratitude.
Until you tell me that you know that Don Greer was a master conspirator, until you tell me that you read in the newspaper from Wood River how he mismanaged funds, (check the Hayner Library),you can bet I won't vote for you or your other Greer Mongers if they run for Mayor.
Maybe Mayor Robinson liked Greer at first like so many did for a long time, but he was the only one who got rid of him and I applaud him for that. More than I can say for all of the rest of you on the board at that time.
I know you could care less about what I think, but I also saw your antics on the board when you lost your temper and walked off the dais when things got hot cause I saw it for myself.
And Tom Fagan let you do it and get away with it, the level headed young lawyer who could speak with eloquence and was a nice looking young man. So I will cast my vote for Roy who is none of the above, but made one great good move for Crestwood and got rid of Greer.
Dear 10:27. Let's see if you can count. Greer was hired in what 1991. It is now 2008. It is the past; for your own mental health, you need to move on!
Tim Trueblood--If I were you, I would not worry about what the people on this blog say..it is all irelevant. The only things that truly matter are the things that happen in the public eye, with open, honest discussion. If residents are concerned about something, they can show up at a meeting and ask about it. They can identify themselves and have an open dialogue. It is a waste of time to use this as a forum. When election time rolls around, I am going to ask the candidates the questions, not the crackpots on this blog that are carrying around so much excess baggage and anger towards past administrations. Why are you wasting your time responding to anonymous people, on a blog that is hosted by someone who holds no position of authority in our community...in fact, was defeated in his election?
11:32 YOU ARE CORRECT. Thank you for bringing me to my senses, goodbye forever Crestwood Independent!
Tim Trueblood
11:32 am Well goody for you. I didn't see you sign your name on this blog. If we are crack pots what are you, the All American Flag Waver who is honest and true? And if you dislike this open forum I suggest you also stop blogging on it. It's pretty simple really. Just go on match.com and see if you can pick up somebody who is a real jewel like you to converse with.
Listen, when someone says something you don't like, they are crack pots. When someone says something you like, they are straight forward and sqeeky clean.
Give me a break. If you feel so strongly about Mr. Trueblood, and since he listens too your every word, ask him why he acted like such an embascil on the dais a few years back, and slammed his hand down in exasperation and opposition, and walked out of the board meeting. Ask him, if he is elected, will we have some more of those ritualistic antics. Ask him why Greer and Fagan didn't slam the gavel down and tell him he was out of order?
Only reason to read and comment on this site it to see how few but mightly/loud people think!!!
As far as... "why he acted like such an embascil on the dais a few years back" - (spelling imbecile)
Think of the manner in which those meetings were conducted and by whom.
I guess no one will run against the current mayor so during his next term he will have to eat all of his words regarding tax increases, etc. and try to blame the past 3 years on staff instead of previous administrations.
1:58 Sorry that I misspelled a word. I guess that is all you got out of my comments? Want to make me feel bad about it? Have at it! Never said I was perfect. I just said what I feel.
And I do agree, that if this mayor wins the election, the last three years were on his watch. I never also never said that in the last 3 years there have been no mistakes. That doesn't happen with any administration.
What I am saying is that the black eyes given to this city by the past city administrator/police chief/mayors and a few of our aldermen were hugh and cost the city immensely. That is all!
Still people refute it, which is their right, but holy cow! Come on and admit a few things for heaven sake.
You can criticize this Mayor and his administration too, if you so wish, and I give you permission, like you really need it. Just compare the two administrations against each other.
What I hated the most about the last administrator/police chief was how he was allowed to bully and threatened people, how he manipulated board of aldermen members, and got by with it.
How he was seen hanky pankying with his girl friend on the premises and got by with it. How he was seen time and again fraternizing with his x-secretaries all over Crestwood while he was married.
And how he was given too much power which the mayor and board at that time will never admit was wrong to this day. (Scarface Said in the Movie "first you get the power, then you get the girl".
He drove a car that was his but the city paid for it to the tune of $800 per month.
Now you tell me that because of all these things, I should cast my vote for someone like Trueblood who allowed it? Or Richard Bland who was in Fagan's corner and his friend?
No questions asked about Greer's moral character. No questions asked about what he covered up including a 40,000 sexual harrassment lawsuit from two female cops by his best friend the major who he hired in his department, demoting the one we had to Lieutenant. And what he did in his past before he came here.
I don't care if Roy liked or disliked Greer at one time, he got rid of the money monger who took the city for a fortune because he was a sociopathic monster who cared only about power and control.
And now that we locked the barn door after the horses are out, we are questioning everything about our finance department and this CA, putting them under a microscope when we didn't do it before.
Forgive me if there are any other words mispelled or any punctuation that is incorrect.
"You say blame this all on Kent, but Kent would have never thought this idea up himself. Kent was barely getting by physically and mentally. He was happy when any department head saved him from making decisions."
Poster 10:27, how do you know this to be the truth? Didn't Kent go onto work as City Administrator at another city after Crestwood? Couldn't have been too sick to have gotten another gig. By the way, if true that Kent was happy when dept. heads saved him from making decisions, then he should have been fired sooner than he was he for letting the City go down hill on his watch. Can you say Bob Wubbels?
Speaks volumes to me that Roy is in Kent's corner. Another good reason to give him 3 more years.
4:50 Well don't give him 3 more years buddy I couldn't care less. Your not hurting me as much as you are embarrassing yourself.
If you want to cross examine me, go ahead. Have at it. There are a lot of those like you out there that think exactly the way you do. And arn't you just such a perfect and honest individual who really gives a care about Crestwood? I'm so impressed.
Listen Up Hoosier! Had this fiasco of a police facility been so great, the people of this community would have never petitioned to stop it and call in question the crappy ballot language. Catch on!
And I don't give a rat's behind who made the first move Kent or Greer because down the line, after the cap. improvement tax finally was stopped, everybody on that board should have known what we were up against. They, the mayor and board of aldermen, should have known that for the people to do that, something was indeed wrong from the "inside". They should have asked themselves why did the people petition? Or do they honestly think that their constituents would go to that extend to stop something that was fiscally responsible. If so, you and others don't deserve their vote on election day.
The people then told you and your kind where you could go with your police facility. The petition to stop it illustrated to the elected officials how they felt? But they continue to cry about it.
That's what happens when you put people in office who only want to glorify themselves and not tell the people the truth in the first place.
That ballot language "sucked" and you know it, unless you were among the few elite. The mayor and board may have discussed it but Greer made sure none of the people (the general population) understood it.
Greer wasn't about to show us his hand. No big meetings illustrating anything of any importance. One blurb in a newsletter which may or may not be read. One blurb in a newspaper?Just like everything else, the ballot language was "his" language.
Crestwood got smarter while you all were busy playing politics. We won't make that mistake again.
If you didn't have your head stuck in the sand and if you were not brainwashed, you would see that you can't fool the people forever.
So stop your baloney, everybody is tired of hearing it.
Did I read on this blog that if one is not a person of influence, they should be ignored, or something to that effect? Whew! How does one get to be a person of influence? Can common man accomplish this?
I like the part about Kent L. that he was gungho for the Police castle and fired ahead. What a farce. But, even if ... could not his replacement & Co. read the tea leaves and consider it out of the question instead of trying to lease a suite at the mall during construction? How 'bout them apples Timmy? Give it a rest. Come on, don't talk to us about finances. You would have to have been a total idiot to not see that City Hall was in no position to even consider this monumental feat. Any sitting alderman/influential person who did not realize this was apparently lost in space. By the way, I got a kick out of your temper tantrums. Never, have I seen a person of influence ho ho - have so much trouble disguising their political jealousy of Roy and work so hard to keep it going. You must have an ulcer to beat all ulcers.
As for the pink and the sex shop, etc. etc. Please,tell me how Roy is to blame for this sort of thing. Last time I looked there are 9 men up there doing the approving, etc. I will be waiting to hear from you on this.
The best thing you losers could do for your city is blow all your hate out your ear. It serves no useful purpose and we all know who you are. Each and every one of you. Count on us and our memories serving us well. This is our town, and we are infinitely sick of your politics. Members of the board who would chose sides forgetting that Crestwood needs civility at this time and engage in political nonsense at beer break make it abundantly clear they are encapable of helping us get our city back to a good place, encapable of holding public office in our city. The gang that used to sit up there and cry foul all the time unless it was their idea, are gone and good riddance. They can never escape the fact that they were the era of major blunders. of
5:55/6:33 My aren't we a bit touchy today?
Speaking of being tired of hearing baloney, have you ever thought about how much baloney you and your "friends" have put out? Pretty amazing. Going to old newspapers in other states to dig up stuff, never once looking into the background of the man you have sold you soul to (the mayor) while all the time accusing others of being blinded by a dead man. How sick of you.
6:45 PM No sicker than you edifying him and trying to make me feel bad because I speak ill of him.
You have no idea how long and hard I have worked to prove myself wrong about Greer. But I did the research necessary to show that he not only screwed Crestwood over but the previous city he was part of. It's in black and white. I didn't make it up.
That's just good investigating on my part; otherwise, I would be the last person on earth to say one bad word about Greer or anyone else.
I give everyone the benefit of the doubt because that is the way I was taught by my parents. And if I see anyone threaten, coerce, or misrepresent themselves to get what he/she wants, I will say so as long as it is the truth.
Conversely, the one thing I hate more than anything in this world are those who deliberately demeans others or cause others harm and use their powerful position to do so to glorify themselves at the expense of good people. I am sick of it in our society and Don Greer was a splendid example it.
I know too much my friend, or enemy whichever you choose to be. I don't feel a bit upset about what I have stated because I said the same thing when Greer was alive and well and suffocating Crestwood.
I have had it with elected officials who believed what Don Greer told them and I have had it with elected officials who rewarded him when he hurt innocent, and honest people. Whatever that evil man said, they believed.
Those elected to the board of aldermen and the mayors overseeing Greer listened to him rather than follow their instincts and listen to what they should have known were lies on his part. He knew just what buttons to press.
After Robertson resigned Greer covered up the truth and I am sure convinced his board of aldermen that it was in the best interest of the City to cover it up and they bought it. Then they reward Robertson by placing him on the TIF Commission. Why? Because Greer said so. Sure lets reward Jim Robertson for what he did to an employee; after all, he appointed Greer CA so let 's just slap him on the wrist instead of telling the truth.
Don't even go there; The idiots on the board didn't care. Greer said she disgraced the city not Robertson.
And Lori, if you choose to use somebody's name on this blog to blaspheme, make sure you use the correct name. Vulgar language is not good when you are talking to the wrong person. Watch out for that when you choose to defame someone. Much like your x-boss, I would say.
"Lori". There is somebody that overdosed on the kool-aid for sure!
My My My My My ;;; me thinks the accuser is the touchy one today more than a bit touchy actually! How obvious it is that you are totally dealing in fiction! Surely you know the facts regarding your palsie are out. No one had to do much research, people in that town volunteered the info, not to mention the one following Crestwood. Seems news travels. And, trust me, the opinions are not pretty. People in both towns read blogs, too, you know. And people at the local pub have ears and old flames also talk. Hindsight in this town is clearly 20/20, factual, and lessons learned. So, my my my - best you train yourself to defend someone who is defensible. That train has left the station.
Would the person (s) who are the experts on Mr. Greer please answer these questions?
Who brought Mr. Greer to the Board to be hired as Chief of Police?
Until he became City Administrator, who was Mr. Greer's boss after he was hired?
Name the Board members who voted to hire Mr. Greer as Chief?
What does the City Code and Charter say about elected officials dealing directly with a Dept. Head?
Who must they go through?
Final note, somebody keeps saying that Mayor Robertson was appointed to a TIF Board after he left office.
This is wrong! He was asked to sit on the Charter Review Commission. The fact that this error has been allowed to be stated over and over again makes one question the creditability of those posters.
I look forward to your answers.
11:57 Blogger. Every person has the right to defend themselves against impropiety in any specific incident where it has occurred. Thank you for your information but I disagree with some of your points.
Too bad you and others, as you so infer, feel that this specific issue was all fiction. People deserve to be treated with respect unless maybe you feel in this case, it isn't so.
If you feel the opinions or facts of others also change that impropriety, I disagree. What would you do in a similar instance? Roll over and play dead? Since you seem to be very astute and not afraid to voice your feelings, I doubt you would let it drop. And you shouldn't ever let somebody get by with a non-consentual act.
According to your words, it sounds like you wish to diminish a person's character and as such, their rights don't matter when an act of sexual harrassment happens to them. Then in that case, everyone should have their rights taken away, even you.
Well let's see, then everybody must be perfect in life, or else if they are physically disrespected in any way, they loose their right to prosecute.
As you say, maybe there are a lot of people who think the same way you do. There are also a lot of people who are full of themselves and think they have all the answers. You obviously seem more concerned about trying to throw a curve to a person character then their right to a defense and I get your inunendos, trust me. But I have a few of my own inunendo but what's the point.
I still feel that no one should have to be subjected to the antics of anybody against their will.
You can have all the facts and you can get the opinions of those who think they know everything about a specific person. It shouldn't matter. No one should have to suffer at the hands of a person against their will, not you, or me or anyone.
Mr. Robertson was appointed to the TIF Commission at a meeting where Alderman Breeding made the motion. Read the minutes.
Don't get upset with people because you are a Greer supporter and others are not.
You ask a lot of questions. However, the bigger question is
who on the board of aldermen agreed to dismiss Greer. That's a better question. Had some members of the board not been term limited out, he would have never been dismissed. I am sure if TT and LaBore to name two were on the board, they would have objected.
11:57 PM Whoever you are. I think enough has been said to me, about me, for or against me.
However, when I see fit to comment on this blog, I will do so and will sign my name.
Now, I say enough is enough. You are definitely entitled to your opinion regarding my issues. Lots of people do. It does not matter to me any longer and no one has to defend me.
In the past, I have been hurt, but so have lots of others. I don't consider myself special.
You on the other hand feel I am not worthy to be defended. It speaks volumes about who are you, and that is hard to swallow but I have no control over it. I accept what you say and have no choice.
As far as the comment regarding Lori. Lori and I have been good friends for years. Lori was faithful to her boss. That's her right. I did not like her boss and her boss never liked our friendship. But I was her friend anyway. She and I have come to an understanding on the subject of her former boss. It has never interfered with our friendship and it's nobody's business regarding it.
Now, if you and others will just leave me be, I would appreciate that. I don't believe anymore sucker punches are necessary. And NO I am not feeling sorry for myself. I only answer to one person anymore and He is the real supreme ruler. Other than that, nothing really matters.
I cannot compete with heresay, or what you choose to believe. But the more I see of people, the more I love my dog.
Sounds fair to me and thanks for your consideration in this matter.
Sandy Grave
11:04 answers to your questions, has anyone given any??
Sandy, you seem to know who 11:57 is and why they would or could bring up the name of Lori. Could you us who 11:57 is cause the exchange has me completely lost?
2:46 Nobody I know is up at 11:57 PM, almost Midnight. It could be anybody. Obviously it is somebody who thinks I didn't deserve to be defended. I guess I am suppose to get all tongue tied about it. But I just have to let it be.
Night Shift people or maybe just night people. An unhappy Crestwood cop on a night shift? And please don't go saying I stated it was a cop. I said I don't really know.
I don't know nor do I care anymore. There were people I knew for over 30 years from Crestwood who could be the one blogging me. The same people shun me to this day every time they see me because they feel I am a liar. I have told friends and family about it and it hasn't been easy for me. Other than those people, I never discussed the issue with anyone else. Maybe some friends are really not friends, maybe that's the problem.
The one thing the blogger said sums up the way he/she feels. You can't get loyalty from people who think you have no right to defend yourself. So obviously, this person is not a friend or relative. What more can I say.
I have friends and family who have been pretty upset about things that occurred but nobody has discussed the blog with me.
And, I am old, grey and have more important things to worry about. I have my own health issues and my husband's. Everything else just doesn't matter.
I don't need anybody to protect me or vouch for me but I also don't need anyone calling me a liar in so many words. What I do know is that any person who superimposes themselves on another, should not be rewarded as it seems to be in this case.
Thanks for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
Would the person (s) who are the experts on Mr. Greer please answer these questions?
Who brought Mr. Greer to the Board to be hired as Chief of Police?
Until he became City Administrator, who was Mr. Greer's boss after he was hired?
Name the Board members who voted to hire Mr. Greer as Chief?
What does the City Code and Charter say about elected officials dealing directly with a Dept. Head?
Who must they go through?
Final note, somebody keeps saying that Mayor Robertson was appointed to a TIF Board after he left office.
This is wrong! He was asked to sit on the Charter Review Commission. The fact that this error has been allowed to be stated over and over again makes one question the creditability of those posters.
I look forward to your answers.
5:02 Again, Ald. Breeding made the motion to have Jim Robertson appointed to the TIF Commission. I don't think it was long termed, but indeed it is in the minutes.
If he was appointed to the Charter Review Committee, it was before he was appointed to the TIF is my recollection.
Ask Richard Breeding.
5:02 Why don't you just come out and say that you feel that everything that happened at city hall was Mr. Leichliter's fault. But Don Greer in your opinion had no skeletons in his closet and was kind and good to everyone and Greer's slate is clean of anything wrong.
You keep asking only the questions that put Mr. Leichliter in a bad light. We might ask you what makes you think that Mr. Greer's actions were above reproach?
7:56 so you are saying that Kent is the answer to the questions I asked?
Then think about this:
"You say blame this all on Kent, but Kent would have never thought this idea up himself. Kent was barely getting by physically and mentally. He was happy when any department head saved him from making decisions."
Poster 10:27, how do you know this to be the truth? Didn't Kent go onto work as City Administrator at another city after Crestwood? Couldn't have been too sick to have gotten another gig. By the way, if true that Kent was happy when dept. heads saved him from making decisions, then he should have been fired sooner than he was he for letting the City go down hill on his watch. Can you say Bob Wubbels?
So what did more damage to the City the 16 years of Kent as C/A or the less than 3 of Greer as C/A? Who is the person who has the mayor in his corner?
You may have hated Greer as a boss, many people hate their boss, but the person in control when the sales taxes dropped, the person in control who kept that from being know in the budget, the person who blended the funds was Kent not Greer. You have been hating the wrong person for a long time. You have a new Board, a new Charter and a new Mayor. Don't you think it is time to hold them responsible for today? Don't you think it is time to let your hate go and to start working for a better Crestwood?
How pathetic you all are arguing about stuff that happened ten years ago...Yes, one must understand the past to avoid repeating it...but all of this petty stuff? Here is what really matters. how much money does Crestwood have? What will happen if the Mall closes? Is there a plan B or C? What is the reality of the financial situation? And does our current mayor have the courage to say he made a mistake about saying we do not need to raise taxes. Will our citizens have the courage to elect someone who accepts this reality? Can we please stop arguing about Whitecliff pool. Does anyone not get the fact that you still need to maintain an attractive, safe, family-friendly community...that it is actually worth something tangible to do so....Instead, lets talk about stuff that happened years ago and hold grudges against dead people and their friends....You could make a situtation comedy about all of this...
Well I agree with most of what you said. And I hope that this administration with strong leadership from the new board of aldermen can go forward.
My question is will the previous administration ever admit their mistakes as you want this administration to do. Or will they continue to put the blame on Leichliter and feel that was the biggest and only issue they had.
But I agree that everything you asked are very pertinent and important questions and those are definitely the ones we need to ask and be concerned about.
"My question is will the previous administration ever admit their mistakes as you want this administration to do. Or will they continue to put the blame on Leichliter and feel that was the biggest and only issue they had."
So you dont want to move forward still want to reflect on the past, while your today goes way into yesterday. Why is it important for you to have others to admit they have made mistakes, does it in someway make you feel superior? There is no hope for Crestwood if this is the majority mind set
I dont care about Kent, the late Don Greer, former employees, alderman, administrators, what they did or did not do, who they slept with and where, the Crestwood Swim Club...NONE OF THE ABOVE..
I care about...
what are we going to do if the mall closes?
How will that impact the bottom line?
Is there a plan B?
Will Crestwood be a desirable place to live...
Do we need to raise taxes to keep up with the times?
Is there going to be an adult sex toy store coming to town...people are more concerned about Don Greer's consenting sex life rather than the prospect of a bunch of perverts coming to shop for sex toys in our town
The big question is this...can someone with big ideas be elected in this town or will a bunch of crackpots eliminate this option?
I guess we will all know next week the answer to your question when we see if any one else runs for mayor.
Amazing isn't it, one administration should admit there mistakes while another one isnt required to do same, as if in doing so would change our current problems.
Well said poster 1:22, well said.
1:22 and 1:37 I agree with everything you have stated that needs to be addressed. And there shouldn't be anyone who really cares for Crestwood not to be concerned about all of it.
If we don't watch ourselves and elect the right people, we could be looking at the wrong businesses coming into our community. The people who govern us from this day forward have a hugh responsibility to watch carefully because we are very vulnerable now.
The problem on this blog is those who get on our defensive backs by pointing fingers at people, and we, in turn, have our turn at pointing fingers back. Then the beat goes on and people get angry.
Then it really gets nasty.
It is too bad we all can't stay focused because what you was previously stated is what we need to be concerned about.
Unfortunately, I have been one of them, but I am not afraid to admit it; and if someone proves me wrong, I will say so. I know that getting up tight is not at all for the ultimate good of Crestwood and I am glad that you have reminded me of it. It would just be nice if we saw others inject a little humility on their end.
Good work.
As long as someone has valid points to make and they are not attacking someone else's character, I see nothing wrong with anonymity.
Actually, the new liquor store is probably higher end than what you will find in Schnucks or Shop 'n Save.
As far as the adult oriented businesses are concerned, I believe the BOA made provisions for this very thing a year or so back. All we can do is see if it holds up in court.
All of you since poster 11:02 are correct. I recall reading on this blog the statement that in effect called anyone who ran in April against the Mayor a roach.
That type of statement will not bring out our best for our City.
3:47 PM I 100% agree. But we have the other element who are calling this mayor the same name.
That's where the rub comes in because we have both sides doing the same thing to each other. We are not in kindergarten where we tell the teacher "well he/she said it first". I have fallen right in that groove many times. It's so unproductive. Thanks Again.
3:54 no one has ever called the mayor a roach on this blog, so just stop the infant stuff now.
Ho la Amigos! I am back from the Mayan Rivera. I see we have some interesting posts to read, not the least of which is the adult book store one!
While I was on the planning and zoning committee we recommended, and the Aldermen past a very stringent ordinance to insure it will be very difficult to do.
While we cannot guarantee that it won't happen, it will be a very expensive venture to open here for a variety of reasons.
I for one hope that it does not, but that said, if the owners a willing to jump through the hoop's there is not much anyone can do about it.
I have a hard time believing that the owner would believe that Crestwood is a viable place for said business what with all of us old folk, but who knows!
Tom Ford
6:48 AM, January 21, 2008 - I think your statement is incorrect.
The following was posted -
"One roach has already filed.
11:49 AM, January 16, 2008"
From what I've heard so far, Roy Robinson is the only one who has filed for mayor.
" Anonymous said...
One roach has already filed.
11:49 AM, January 16, 2008"
I asked everyone to be nice while I was away and what do I see?
My goodness, if you disagree, please by all means do so, but leave the nasty stuff out!
By the way, have you picked up your papers for your run yet? Only one more day to "pay your dues," and then you can say what you will!
Tom Ford
I see that someone has mentioned Johnny Vegas! Well that chain has been successful in suing every City (and winning) it has wanted to put a store in!
During the P&Z board meetings I mentioned them and their Alton store. It's not as simple to keep them out as you would think.
For instance, if you ban their books, they cite Borders, Barnes and Noble, etc. that have nudity in some of their books as well.
I have no idea what they purvey in their stores, but I understand they do have a higher sense of decency than most (whatever that means.)
If the Aldermen stick to the ordinance, and it's not overturned by the court's I am afraid they will be there. The good news is the appear to generate a lot of tax and licence fee's wherever the show up, so, let's wait and see.
Tom Ford
Well, as of last Friday no one has picked up papers to file for Mayor.
The deadline to have all the ducks in a row, signatures, and turned in is 5:00PM, January 22, 2008, so we shall see!
Tom Ford
I have a great idea. Let's start a "Roach Club." No one gets off the hook no matter which side they are on. All negative things in this city will be attributed to the members of the club.
In order to become a member one must have:
-tried to spend city money we don't have
-behaved like a spoiled 3rd grader while serving as an official
-stalked off the dais at a city meeting
-sexually harrassed city employees
-served on board in order to get private pool approved
-spent 2 years trying to discredit the current Mayor
-been only interested in revenge
-refused to realize the truths about their CA pal
-bloggged on this blog to perpetuate their bygone days
-not realized that no one is going to stop this until these aforementions stop cannonizing a crook/s
Uh, oh. Looks like the Roach Club won't be too diversified.
10:54--It is time to seek the assistance of a good, qualified therapist who specializes in anger managment. Carrying around such long-term resentment is harmful. You really need to seek help. Please do this for yourself and your family, in the meantime, the rest of us are going to move forward and try to address the problems Crestwood is facing. Here is a quiz.
Which is a bigger problem right now?
A)The mall less than 50% occupied and no one wants to buy it and tax revenues are shrinking
B)Deceased City Administrator who behaved in appropriately
C)ALdermen that are no longer serving that offended you
Answer: A
A)The mall less than 50% occupied and no one wants to buy it and tax revenues are shrinking.
You may be wrong.... word on retail street is the Mall has been sold to a Chicago based company.
You are right, if the mall is indeed sold all of our troubles are over and it is time to get back to arguing about the late city administrator and the Crestwood Swim Club. My apologies.
Five business in the Mall have closed up shop since 1/1/2008...I really hope that who ever is in charge at City Hall for the next 3 years has a plan B that does not include a property tax hike.
Now it's up to 6!
Why the count down? Every store will be closed for the new development. I think the BOA should have pushed harder for a revised budget taking into account the closing.
11:05 PM blogger: They were abused children, it's in their nature to find the negative whenever possible!
Your right, they will all close, but they no doubt forgot about that little issue!
Tom Ford
...And some people will stop reminding us of the past administration's transgressions, when others stop demeaning Roy for deeds not have as bad.
It's time to allow the new aldermen and Roy to get us out of this mess. Getting the mall straightened out is only one hugh problem. We have lots of other problems nationwide that are affecting a clear, concise remedy for our mall and the well being of lots of cities besides ours.
Consequently, investors are not that easily found and those who are investing are being extra careful. It has nothing to do with Crestwood as much as it has to do with the American Economy.
We all lack the patience necessary for things to change in an orderly, smooth fashion. We all want "quick fixes" and we want change to happen right now.
But anyone who felt like things were going to be fixed in three years, didn't know or didn't want to know how much had to be done.
Turning Crestwood around was never going to be a quick fix when you factor in what our economic situation has been doing on the State and National level with real estate being pivitol.
We just can't look at the situation from a Crestwood standpoint. There are a lot of other variables that are in the mix.
Whether it be mini-malls or large shopping malls, I think that concept, that convenience and time saving trend will be around for a long time. Putting a highway right down the middle of it, makes it more convenient and accessible.
I have confidence in Roy and the board to make the right decisions for our future, but no one can actually know how deep the water is unless they get in it. And to expect this mess to be cleared up fast, just means that you don't understand how messed up it was in the first place.
12:49 PM blogger: BINGO, you hit it completely my friend!
Not only is Missouri suffering the ripple effect of the National slowdown, Illinois is as well.
Home sales are in the tank in both states, and commercial building is drying up due to the uncertainty of this years National elections, and the lending institutions approach to lending.
I am hit every day with requests to "remove something" to reduce my pricing on HVAC equipment, and builders have completely stopped doing anything in the "spec" market.
I can show you entire areas on the near east side that have stopped work on projects, and some where they have been hit with foreclosure.
Crestwood has no magic bullet to avoid this sad trend so we will have to do the best we can with what we have. I, like you believe we have the right people in the job to accomplish that mission, so onward!
Tom Ford
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