Saturday shopping at the mall, or where did the crowds go?
My wife and I were at Crestwood Plaza yesterday to pick up a couple of items. I was struck by the lack of customers in attendance as it was 11:30 AM!
This brings me to the reason for this post, and that is, it is quite apparent that the tax monies coming from the Mall will be non existent in the very near future! In fact IF any sort of a shut down occurs we can expect nothing of substance for three years!
What to do in the meantime tax money wise? I fully admit that I am no Jerry Miguel, or Steve Nieder (thank God for them,) when it comes to analyzing incoming revenue, but the parts I have seen tell me that we are going to need a "transfusion" in the very near future!
It has been said that we will have to look at our precious City services for cuts if said tax monies are not forthcoming, and I believe it. Now just where do we make those cuts?
1. Police department? NO, if we do that we WILL be much less secure than we are today, and it WILL cost us more in taxes to support a County department!
2. Fire department? NO, again, were we to do that you Can count on paying at least another 58 cents per 100, and not have what we have now!
3. Public works? NO, because we need all the troops on the street we have now just to keep up with the demands of everyday problems and opportunities!
I think you get the drift by now my friends. We are going to have to step up and grant the Mayor and the BOA the authority to TEMPORARILY raise taxes until were back on track, say 2012. How much you say? Again I don't have all the answers but it looks like at least 68-76 cents (total tax) per hundred to get us by the hump here.
Look at your tax bill from St. Louis county 2007, notice that you pay more to the special school district and the zoo than you pay to the community in which you live, is it me, or is this inverse?
Folks we have a really great community here, with the right leadership to see us through the coming storm if we give them the tools to do it, so I am in favor of doing just that!
Please give me your input here (no smart remarks, they will be deleted,) and I will copy them and give them to each Board member, and the Mayor. We look to them for leadership, and they look to us for guidance and help in the tough times!
Tom Ford
NO. 467
This brings me to the reason for this post, and that is, it is quite apparent that the tax monies coming from the Mall will be non existent in the very near future! In fact IF any sort of a shut down occurs we can expect nothing of substance for three years!
What to do in the meantime tax money wise? I fully admit that I am no Jerry Miguel, or Steve Nieder (thank God for them,) when it comes to analyzing incoming revenue, but the parts I have seen tell me that we are going to need a "transfusion" in the very near future!
It has been said that we will have to look at our precious City services for cuts if said tax monies are not forthcoming, and I believe it. Now just where do we make those cuts?
1. Police department? NO, if we do that we WILL be much less secure than we are today, and it WILL cost us more in taxes to support a County department!
2. Fire department? NO, again, were we to do that you Can count on paying at least another 58 cents per 100, and not have what we have now!
3. Public works? NO, because we need all the troops on the street we have now just to keep up with the demands of everyday problems and opportunities!
I think you get the drift by now my friends. We are going to have to step up and grant the Mayor and the BOA the authority to TEMPORARILY raise taxes until were back on track, say 2012. How much you say? Again I don't have all the answers but it looks like at least 68-76 cents (total tax) per hundred to get us by the hump here.
Look at your tax bill from St. Louis county 2007, notice that you pay more to the special school district and the zoo than you pay to the community in which you live, is it me, or is this inverse?
Folks we have a really great community here, with the right leadership to see us through the coming storm if we give them the tools to do it, so I am in favor of doing just that!
Please give me your input here (no smart remarks, they will be deleted,) and I will copy them and give them to each Board member, and the Mayor. We look to them for leadership, and they look to us for guidance and help in the tough times!
Tom Ford
NO. 467
posted by Crestwood Independent at 09:39
30 Comments:
We in Crestwood enjoy one of the lower Real Estate Property taxes in the county.
Example taxes on a $200,000 home located any place in St louis County vary by a wide margin, when School District taxes are included the tax cost is even more in our favor.
A $200,000 home in Crestwood paid just $168.60 (2007 tax bills 12/31/07 .(all services Fire Police Parks Public Works including $0.17 for Prop "S"debt and a $28.00 sewer lateral )
All charges based on tax calculations on a $200,000 home in St Louis County city costs + fire costs if located in a Fire District.
For same home in Webster Grove $305.52.
Same home Kirkwood $247.38
Same home Affton in county with County Police coverage using Affton Fire Dist $307.42
Same home in Sunset Hills using Fenton Fire District $256.00 .
None of this is news. Anyone who was alive in the Fall of 2007 knew this. That's when mayor said we didn't need tax increase and would not allow anyone to talk about a plan "B".
There were posts on this blog claiming that the only reason for the mayor's stance was he wanted to be sure no ran against him in April'08, and that once he was sure o his re-election, the story would change.
Nice to see this blog is still carrying the mayor's water for him.
If what you mean by "smart remarks" is holding the current administration responsible for not putting a tax increase before us to "grant" to them sooner, or to point out that the current administration is breaking their signed promise to spend all the $ from the most recent property tax increase we "granted" them on the reduction of the dept, then you better not publish my post or expect my vote to "grant" them any more of my money.
8:27 AM blogger: Nice to see your back my friend! Carrying the mayors water for him? No not really, just putting forth some of MY ideas for a better Crestwood.
3:52 PM blogger: What do I mean by "smart remarks?" Well things like so and so did this or that, or personal attacks on fellow citizens. Any comment's you direct to the Mayor or BOA members will be left in tact.
That said, if you have a remark, please give us some back up information to go with it, such as, the Board failed to______, and back it up with ___________!
Tom Ford
Ok, here goes:
The Board members of the Ways and Means Committee failed to stand up to the Mayor when they caved in to his pressure to not have a plan B included in the 2008 budget.
The Board failed in their duty when they did not put a property tax increase on the April 2008 ballot, something you now admit is needed.
By failing to do the above, the Board has failed to use it's Charter provided powers and have allowed the Mayor to run the city for his own best political interests.
Blogger 11:07 you forgot the Board and the Mayor's failure to keep their promise to spend every penny the last property tax increase we gave them on reducing the debt of the City, not putting it into the General Fund for wages.
You forgot the Mayor's promise to end the City's lawsuits, we are now have three of them.
The Mayor has forgot his campaign position that he was against all TIF's, just read this weeks Suburban Journal to see how much that promise meant.
WE all know no individual or group of individuals is responsible for the decline of Crestwood Plaza. Our plaza just isn't on "Retail Radar" any longer. People like to go to the innovative,hep, new places to shop. Just like it used to be HERE, back when. We were afterall the "1st Plaza." Our plaza is not ugly or unredeemable, it is just yesterday in spirit and mind. Somewhere, however, there is a not yet born solution (maybe even something entirely revolutionary) and the continuing remarks of the blogger, who puts their brand of negative politics in this equasion, will not alter por enhance our current dilemna.
This blogger has painted themself as a long suffering self grandized city patriot, a pathetic picture of a person who cannot come to terms with a changed personal vision of self importance long enough to put the city first. Their contribution is undigested ongoing clatter. This last set of blogs above has finally convinced me that this blogger has reached the point where outside help should be considered by their family. No one who really cares about our city would, since the very onset of "Crestwood Independent," continue to self-rage over politics and chose to take the low road on every post. I have nothing but pity for this poor soul whose loss of self esteem and position has driven them to this reduced level.
I don't think any of our elected officials considers themself a total sage on every matter pertaining to excavating our city from its current situation. Each of them in their own way are attempting to right things. I honor their differences and applaud their efforts. It would seem they are at a point where they know politics is trivial compared to solving problems. It would demean any of them at this time to play politics. It would describe them as less than dedicated to their constituants and their city at large. And playing politics would deprive us of their individual talents.
Fact: Mayor Robinson is Mayor
Fact: Eight Aldermen work together with the Mayor to determine the future of our city. They were elected just as was Mayor Robinson.
Fact: It is not going to be a walk in the park to turn things around and answers will take longer and be profound
Fact: No one is carrying water for anyone.
Fact: Let us hope that this blog provides a positive sounding board which helps the officials in their journey.
Fact: Let us hope that somehow the miserable blogger who so despises Mr. Robinson will somehow, sometime let their city trump their paranoid feelings.
Fact: People have a right to change their minds, whether its over TIF's or taxes, or ideas. CHANGE happens. Maybe the blogger so filled with misery could benefit from CHANGE. Most of us are willing to consider facts and so far our board is far more impressive than it has been in many a year. I believe we are benefitting from their efforts. Mayor Robinson is not perfect, the aldermen are not perfect, the employees are not perfect, our city is not perfect. What is perfect is the opportunity we all have to contribute in whatever way we can to a successful future.
3:52 I am confused by your comments and would like some clarification on why you think the Prop S monies you granted the BOA are not being spent to pay down the Debt of the cities Royal Bank refinancing. At the last BOA meeting I believe the board was wrestling with having too give back more than the Prop S money because the city is only allowed to keep 5% of our General fund surplus. Our BOA have kept their promise as far as I can see. But please correct me if I am wrong cause I am getting old and my hearing is not what it usedd to be.
How will the city benefit by joining the TIF lawsuit? Other cities have already taken up the cause. Why us? Especially at this time of financial difficulty?
4;28 pm BLOGGER: I think our joining in the suit is nothing more that "window dressing." That is to look good in the eyes of the prospective buyer of the Westfield property!
I we stayed out of it (which I think we should have,) we would not have looked as "progressive" to the new owners, thus in we are showing our "righteous indignation," for all to see.
Tom Ford
4:13 PM blogger: That hits it right dead center! Very well said my friend!
It is time to put Crestwood first, period!
Tom Ford
Why wasn't it time to put "Crestwood first" 3 years ago when all the promises that are now being broken were made?
5:59 blogger
You just never give up do you? However, you need to get your answers from the 9 member boards of 3 years ago and of today. You can obtain this list from city hall.
Most of us, by the way, are more interested in preserving our city and facing tomorrow with the help of our BOA, our residents and our city employees. A triathalon of hope.
If you, on the other hand. wish to continue in your quest to blog blast, have at it. You do truly seem to feed off your fury. I would bet the BOA has a lot better things to do than to worry about a blogger on a mission. You see we are still trying to figure out how the "yesterday promise," you know the one which was a 14.5 Million dollar city hall re-do, became (thankfully)broken by residents who blasted the idea into space after realizing that your idea of governance was going to parlay the city into bankruptcy.
If you want to blog about lessons from the past; promises from the past and the state of disarray left by your heroes, I suggest you start another blog. "Sell sarcasm somewhere else, we're all filled up here."
You truly need to find another outlet for your grief.
Nope, cannot do, must deal with current issues with current leadership and their problems and failures and success. A promise is a promise, just as a broken promise is still a broken promise.
By the way, aren't you getting a bit tired of your rerun on the the "14.5 Million dollar city hall re-do", the writers strike is over? So I guess all those who disagree with looking at the today gang of 9 are all ok with TIF, etc? My how the worm turns when it's your neighbor in office.
7:53 If you would read the paper, you would know that the TIF issue is being addressed by Crestwood as well as other cities.
This administration didn't start the TIF's. It was already there and after a long ride with TIF's, we are trying to address that problem.
But how can anyone forget or forgive what could have been a 14 million dollar boo boo when the citizens had to take it upon themselves to stop it with a petition, because the administration was hypnotized by a CA who was far to busy building his empire and playing games with the finance officer to care.
Further, You had your chance to run against the mayor if you think you know better about what Crestwood needs but you didn't. So that tells me a lot about your self-loathing accusations about the present people who seem to want to go forward with Crestwood.
"But how can anyone forget or forgive what could have been a 14 million dollar boo boo...."
Well lets see...if the GF did not have to use the cash throughout the year for payroll...the Capital Improvement fund would have paid for the boo boo....
Check out the cash flow on the payroll. The GF need cash. Borrow from Peter to pay Paul. Same old, same old. Don't address the GF lack of income......Oh, we don't need additional taxes for payroll......I keep forgetting
10:07 you are a broken record, none of what you post has any impact on today, so go ahead, live in the past.
The current batch of elected officials by and large ran for office by being against TIF's, tax increases, more lawsuits, while those they replaced knew the need for TIF's or there would be tax increases and that law suits are a fact of life in the USA.
I must be the only reader of this blog who finds this all very two faced and really has an issue with someone who breaks their promise to get elected. Maybe that is all beneath you, as your only concern seems to be the removal of the former CA for reason you have stated over and over again, and the fact that you were a part of a group who stopped a still needed upgrade to City Hall and the Police Station.
Interesting the paper this week quotes the City financial officer stating that the surplus from Prop S will happen again next year. Just think of the money the City could save in interest if the promise they made to spend every cent of Prop S on paying off the notes was kept? Do you think the City would be claiming they need another tax increase if they were free to use all the money from Prop S on other things than to pay off of the note?
So be it, but the record as pointed out in post 11:27 on 2/26 is still correct and is still today's news.
I myself am disappointed that the city chose to join the TIF lawsuit. I think the issues will be resolved with or without Crestwood joining a lawsuit.
Let's make time together on this blog to delve in the TIF situation and the development of the plaza.
How many bloggers were against the TIF for Kohl's and Service Merchandise Plaza and Ace Hardware?
What has been the general outcome/result of these TIF's? Favorable or not favorable? Where would we be without them? Are we a big enough draw to imagine that developers/retail etc. will come knocking on our door?
Those of you against re-examining the new TIF laws via the lawsuit and the current action taken - what would be a more satisfactory alternative? How can we hope to get this parcel developed successfully in today's times without developer assistance?
When developed in a realistic and innovative fashion, can we expect a turnaround, enough to energize and sustain our city?
Do you think it can be done without a TIF? Yes, No
Do you think your ward's aldermen listen to and invite their constituants views pro and con and give them due diliberation?
Do you essentially agree that lamenting over a not all that rosy past does not lead to progress? That politics has no position on the BOA and the future of our city at this time. That 9 officials have a awesome task ahead in their decision making process? That they are up to the task.
Now is a great time to kick in with our sincerest ideas and concerns. Let's do it! This blog is a great tool. The city hall meetings are an outstanding start.
It would be nice to have condos somewhere in Crestwood that don't cost $300 to 400,000. Ones comparable to the ones over by Grants Trail off Pardee. This price range is an available alternative elsewhere in the county, i.e. Big Bend and Hanna Road and out to Reis Road in West County. Tree Top Village. We could use the younger shoppers and retain the retired who travel in the winter and no longer need a large home, but would really like to remain in our city as permanent home, or simply downsize affordably. Single family homes and retirement centers going up everywhere are not all there is, we could use moderate priced condos to round out the possibilities. I don't see Crestwood as a city for apartments. But that's just my slant.
Nice idea, really agree with you, but when a developer tried this at Watson and Grant he was told no one would pay his price ($275,000)and many of those who sit on the Board were against it and the use of eminent domain to secure all the property needed.
Didn't that developer want a tax incentive too? For residential property?
Why couldn't the shoes go out and play?
They were all tied up.
What happens to an air conditioner when you pull its plug?
It loses its cool.
sorry...
NO.There was no residential property involved in the developments footprint.
So ... what are you saying, apartments and condos are not residential property? I thought Mills wanted an incentive for his development?
Thought you meant residential property would have been purchased by developer. It was to be a mixed retail and residential development.
Kind like I guess what Kirkwood has since done.
How will the city benefit by joining the TIF lawsuit? Other cities have already taken up the cause. Why us? Especially at this time of financial difficulty?
Great, let's sit back and let others do our heavy lifting!
Perhaps the more city's with an interest in this effort will send a message to Jeff City!
Speaking of Jeff City... Has anyone seen our State Rep Latley to ask how he managed to screw this up so bad?
"Great, let's sit back and let others do our heavy lifting!"
Ok then. Well let's just blow some cash and join a lawsuit here and there. Why not? Crestwood's rolling in the dough, isn't it?
If the development would become "mixed" why would they need a TIF? Unless it is predominantly tax producing is one thing. Residential is another. Why would we have to subsidize any form of residential? Mixed is okay, but would not think apartments a good idea, just condos and homes. Did we give Schnucks and Best Buy and Shop and Save and all the city's businesses a TIF? Where/when does it stop?
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