Mayor Roy Robinson, what has he done for Crestwood, right or wrong?
Well quite a few of you have posted both plus and minus items reference Mayor Robinson, so I thought I would start an AD HOC thread.
I will start this off by saying that anything that is extremely derogatory that you will not sign your name to will be removed by me! If you feel that you must "save Crestwood by telling all" you are required to have the courage of your convictions by telling us who you are!
If you cant, or wont do that, save your fingertips because it will be gone.
That said, I have been around this City for some time myself, and I believe Mayor Robinson really does care about Crestwood, why? Well look at the time he spends working with developers, and prospective business people. I have personally called him to set up meetings with businesses that wanted to move to Crestwood, and not once was I told he was unavailable.
Some have stated that he ran off two of the three City Administrators we have ever had. Well he did one, and the second was the choice of the C/A, and not the Mayor. I believe when the dust settles on this latest move you will find that it was a conflict of personalities between some on the Board, and the C/A. People do come and go for a variety of reasons, and not all of them can be attributed to one person, just look at your work, and you will see what I mean.
The Mayor found himself in a rather poor position when he took over from the previous regime, and I firmly believe he did the best he could with the hand he was dealt. Now, one does not step into a job knowing everything there is to be known about it, the very nature of the job requires OJT! I believe he has grown into the position very well indeed.
Think of yourself being placed in a position where you really don't know the whole story, and then finding out some rather disturbing things, What would you do? And that folks is the real crux of this discussion, what would you and I do? We all had a chance to pick up our banner and run for Mayor, but none of us did that now did we. So, in my humble opinion, I will stay with the guy that brought me this far as I see no-one else in this town who even wants the job enough to put up five bucks and the signatures to challenge him!
Tom Ford
NO.474
posted by Crestwood Independent at 08:52
157 Comments:
Who will really benefit from this thread? This is almost like the child's game called Lemon Squeeze where you you go around a circle and start naming all of the things you dont like about a person, and the person has to sit there and listen. How can anything positive come out of a bunch of anonymous posts about our mayor--good or bad? If you have any problems or concerns with what he is doing? Call him. If you are concerned about the city--go to meetings there are ample opportunities to get involved. I dont see why you think anything good will come out of this thread. In fact, the whole blog is sort of pointless, really.
10:29 AM blogger?: If the whole thing is pointless why do you read it and respond?
As Sigmund Freud once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results!"
Sorry, but this gives the BRAVE SOULS the chance to speak their piece, and, assuming they are brave enough, sign their name (humm, you didn't I see.)
Ah well, this is like a TV set, if you don't like it, don't watch (in this case read) it.
I hope you will stay though as we value opinions from all sides! Be happy spring is coming and soon the pool will be open, and.......
Tom Ford
Be a grown up, stand by your man, write a letter to a newspaper in support of Roy. This thread is just a feel good to enable those who are afraid have their name attached to their opinions say something without fear being known, questioned or held accountable.
Oh yes, it's March, spring is coming so anyone who is critical of this blog or Roy must be a member of the Swim Club, or St. E's.
1:58 You see how you are? Nobody mentioned the Swim Club or St. E's but you.
I agree with the first blogger at 10:29 somewhat. I do however like the blog until the nut cases start rambling and making statements that are heresay or suppositions that make you think they are the truth.
But it isn't only people who want to find fault that comment here, there are good people who blog and refuse to sign their names for good reason. The reason being:
When you put your name on this blog, people will chew you up and spit you out if you say something that is not their view. And in the process they will demean you and I or anybody else. I don't have the intestinal fortitude necessary to sign my name and I will admit it.
There are people who have been involved in city government, appointed, elected, part-time and full-time employees who would be too afraid to sign their names. Nobody needs the grief that they might receive from bloggers who have been unhappy with their comments.
So, you take your chances every time you feel the right to use the pen rather than the sword whether it be a newspaper or this blog.
You don't really know what to believe or not to believe when people talk, so I think everyone should do their own investigation regarding allegations against anybody.
Newspapers are notorious for supporting one person over another like The Call. That's why they don't send it to my home anymore. I told them not to. I like making up my own mind without someone slanting things like they have in the past. And believe me, The Call will never stop doing it, cause that's how they got into this town to begn with.
People take sides and people play politics. Newspapers should show both sides. The Call doesn't. People believe those who should not be trusted but they believe it anyway because some dummy plants a seed of doubt in their minds. It's all psychological and it works everytime. But it doesn't make their comments true.
I know everybody isn't going to agree with me, but I base what I say on my own personal knowledge and my own investigation.
And so it goes....
1:58 PM blogger: Are you "confessing" to be a member of St E's, or the swim club?
For a while there it sounded like you were. Well no matter, as we love all God's creatures!
Tom Ford
"Be happy spring is coming and soon the pool will be open, and.......
Tom Ford
12:04 PM, March 08, 2008"
Swim club Tom, don't you recall what you wrote?
Poster3:13
"Newspapers are notorious for supporting one person over another like The Call. That's why they don't send it to my home anymore. I told them not to. I like making up my own mind without someone slanting things like they have in the past."
Has there ever be a lie or non truth posted on this blog, I am sure there has been, but unlike the Call or any other paper, you have no way of knowing who wrote it. A paper will not publish anything unless they can state who is the source of the information or opinion. Very few put their name to a post here, buy my count there have been 6 people in total out of 474 threads and the many posts who have placed a name to their thoughts.
That is why any paper is the best place to defend our mayor if you disagree with is said or reported there about him.
Be happy spring is coming and soon the pool will be open, and.......
Tom Ford
12:04 PM, March 08, 2008"
Swim club Tom, don't you recall what you wrote?
What's your point? Do you see anything above that suggested you were a pool member? No, you don't, and neither does anyone else!
Me thinks thou doth protest too much!
Tom Ford
The Theory of The Great Divide
If you want to contribute to this thread, do it. If not, skip ahead. Save yourself the bother. As for benefits of this thread...
As we know some of us like to say nice things and some don't. Laughter and self expression are said to be beneficial. So the positivies will feel good, but the negativies will also feel good, as this is what they do best, knock the Mayor and all who are not finding constant fault with him. So, I will call this theory the separation of thosuns and usuns, the Great Divide. I learn a lot from the deragatory thosuns. They are like little black dots on a white background, distinctive and allergic to change they did not create. Acerbic with a bent for gloom. As for being pointless, that is also an opinion. This opinion blogger needs to find another thread more suitable for their points. Otherwise they are just exposing a nerve. But, then, it does make them happy, so not completely pointless afterall.
Now for the CALL. Here again, an opinion. Often a one sider. No one really cares. It is so commonplace and so unlike other small newspapers. Like sitcoms, we wait each week to see what amusement the hammer will provide. What slant they will put on things. On occasion they have surprised us with a neutral stance and accomodated those of us who look for fair and balanced.
So, what we have here is a city we love, a lot of nice people, some nice parks, and schools and churches and a Board of Aldermen and Mayor we all elected, and some volunteer boards and some valuable city employees who are helping us see things through and a lot of nice stores and businesses, civic pride and great hopes for the future. We live here because we want to. Roy is Mayor because he was elected Mayor. In life, people who contribute to the good, like leaders in small cities with some big challenges, are usually gooduns,positivies, who don't claim to be perfect who represent a majority of the electorate, who are also positivies and gooduns.
People whose sour notes don't play with this theory should find a community with a different tune. The blogger who finds this particular thread pointless has voluntarily posted on it. Why? The blogger who brings in a local pond and parish is delusional. That is not the subject. This blogger is only stepping up to the blog, not the plate. There is a big difference.
Now for a Roy comment. I think he serves this city with a heart. I think he cares very much about our city and it shows. I think he is presiding over a board which appears to be making ever effort to help us forget the bizzare happenings of the recent past and I think he encourages their opinions and ideas. I don't have to agree with his every move. I don't have a need to criticize him when he has an idea which is not in agreement with mine. I just happen to feel comfortable with his style of leadership and I like the remarkable and positive change in the deameanor and professionalism of the entire board over which he presides. He is doing something right and so are they.
7:13 Bravo fellow blogger. You said it better than anyone ever did on this blog. You have my congratulations.
Special points you have made:
*the people of Crestwood elected Roy.
*we have a lot to be proud of in this city.
*we seem to have a good mix of people on the board of aldermen which we didn't have before.
*there definitely is more professionalism on this board with no more antics and grandstanding.
*I too believe that Roy serves this city with a good heart. Who else would have taken such a task if not someone who wanted to better Crestwood. Especially when dealing with the thankless few who continue to belittle him with every step they take.
I applaud you for what you have said and how you have said it. I apprciated every word.
I recently moved away from Crestwood and I miss it. I think that the mayor is doing a fine job.
The few times I had to call the city the response was friendly and fast. The parks were awesome, little things like the plant swap and fishing at the quarry were kinda neat, and it just felt like a close-knit community.
I am interested to see how the mall situation turns out ... it seems a bit optimistic to think that it could be a retail powerhouse again. The area is oversaturated with retail.
I think that the mayor is doing the best that he can - he didn't have an easy situation coming in.
What bothers me the most about those positive posts for Roy is they always include something like,
"better than the Mayor before him", "he didn't know how bad things were until he was elected", when you consider how bad things are he has done a good job". None of those statements tell me what he has done that is better.
I can recall his statements and promises that he made when he ran for office and have not kept and his quotes in ALL of the papers which many times make him sound like a buffoon. And they are quotes of his not opinions of the writers.
10:03 AM blogger: May have stated here that Mayor Robinson is not a good public speaker. Most of us are aware of our shortcomings in that realm, and I am sure he is also.
That said, I firmly believe when you listen to him, you fully understand what is on his mind at that time. That is a trait I will take over people like Edwards, Obama, Clinton, ETC., who are really great speakers, but can (and do) go all day long without saying anything!
We all heard him speak at the debates, and we elected him "as is, where is!" Why do think that happened? Well I believe it was exactly what I said, he speaks his mind, and is not afraid to stand behind what he says.
I guess if we wanted a "do nothing" glib speaker here in Crestwood we should have hired one, but we didn't, and I for one am very happy we didn't!
Tom Ford
there are about three people who sign their names on this blog and we haven't heard from any of them in a while
Tom,
Can we take a break from critiquing the mayor for one public service announcement.
A benefit pool tournament will be held noon Saturday, March 29th at The Phoenix ( on Lemay Ferry, just north of Lindbergh). All proceeds will benefit the families of the two fallen Kirkwood police officers, Officer Ballman and Sgt. Biggs.
The entrance fee is just $20 and they'll be a bunch of prizes. This will be a two out of three, single elimination tournament.
This should be a good time and a great way to help these families out. Hope to see you there.
Mike Heins
Don't recall hearing that it is a prerequisite that a Mayor must be William Jennings Bryan incarnated. One thing I can appreciate in a Crestwood Official is that they do not:
Call a fellow alderman a "snake in the grass" outloud during a meeting
Laugh, sigh or roll eyes during a meeting
Accuse an appointed board member of being "confrontational" while she was being appointed
Clutch a Roberts Rules of Order while panting during a meeting while the Mayor is speaking
Ask a fellow alderman "are you finished yet?"
Use sarcasm directed at the Mayor at a meeting
Glare at resident speakers
Point:
These types of responses which have occurred at Crestwood BOA Meetings in recent years makes our Mayor, while not a natural speak, a welcome relief.
P.S. I think we are all waiting for the blogger with the persistent need for "promises" to blog this list to us.
6:46 PM blogger: Wow, I bet most of us can attach names to those "officials," and rather quickly!
Indeed, there have been, and continue to be some really great "servants of the great unwashed" on that Dias, now haven't there!
My personal favorite is the guy that rolls his eyes, and looks at the desk. Now there is a person that knows how to show some real respect!
Tom Ford
Really Tom? You want to walk down that road? How bout Steve Nieder? The guy cross examines the most routine of speakers at board meetings. He rolls his eyes. He mutters. He interrupts. He tells people they're not wanted or that "we're done here". The man is just flat out rude and could use a lesson in civility and behavioral manners.
Not a real brainbuster to figure Roy was talking about HIM when he told the board to be more civil to each other and the speakers.
Speaking of, I thought Tom was against a code of conduct? Funny now that they have one.
Until such time as the alderman to whom you refer - infers outloud that another alderman is a snake in the grass, comes to a meeting looped and red faced, or has a major absentee record, I will give him a pass for not living up to your standards, whatever they are. He easily represents a large part of the consituancy. Each alderman is unique in their own way, each brings a dimension to the board. Actually we need them all. Just not the ones whose ugliness does not befit the the position; ones who insult a lady, and one whose sarcasm wasn't just just political, but sadly a character trait. If you don't like this alderman, this would have to be affirmation that he is one of the best.
Something Mayor Robinson has done that is good is getting Micky Carrol to join the Crestwood Parade last year. That turned our city around.
7:51 Whose Micky Carrol? Was your remark suppose to be understood by only a chosen few, cause I don't gt it.
2:16 PM blogger: Mickey Carroll was a "Munchkin" in the 1939 movie "Wizard Of Oz!"
He now resides here in Crestwood, and we all should be proud of that!
Tom Ford
(Your really serious, you didn't know?)
10;29 pm BLOGGER: Well yes, I will go down that road. I believe I know Alderman Nieder very well, and I guarantee you he will get to the bottom of an issue. Do we want less? I don't!
That said,I have however addressed the Board when Gentlemen from the left side have "rolled their eyes, looked at the desk, and generally ignored me.
In fact a female resident spoke right after me, and was given the same treatment.
And your right, I am against a "code of conduct," because if we need one, that tells me we have some very uncivil people, and we need new people up there period!
That's not the case now is it!
Tom Ford
So Tom, how do you want them to look? Directly at you not their desk, not roll their eyes, but hold steady? Can they blink? What if they are looking at the desk so they can take notes? Is that ok? How do you figure they ignored you, did you ask them a question and they didn't answer you?
I mean, the feeling of being ignored is kind of hard to prove as it is so subjective. Have you spoke to Alderman McGee? I think he sits on the left side, what about his rolling of his eye's etc, when you speak? What did he say was his reason for his such poor behaviour?
How about this for an idea, next time any one runs for office on the left side pf the Board, why dont you take out 5$ and get some people to sign for you and you run for the seat of the offenders? You know that's what people are saying to those who post against Roy, hay you could have run for mayor why didn't you? Well, April 2009 you can run for a seat, but since this Board's left side is so rotten why didn't you run in 2007?as the left side of the board ever done any thing right in your eyes? If you look at the recent votes you will note they support Roy more than the right side! Which is interesting since the right side is meeting in secret meetings at one of the Alderman's homes which when they have 4 or more is against the law to do so. Wonder what they are talking abut that they dont want us or the Mayor to know about?
5:29 PM blogger: I have done just that my friend, I did not win, but I did put up, and I didn't shut up!
Now as to you, when do we see that from you, erstwhile blogger, or will you just spend the rest of your days in the cheap seats complaining?
Tom Ford
5:29 March 11
Hi there, Mr. Happy,
I can't imagine anyone writing such a long blog about nothing. Here's the deal. If someone thinks eyes are rolling, fine. If another just thinks its their manner, fine. However, anyone who ever attended these meetings, knows the difference. Rather than anger anyone when those eyes rolled, we simply got used to it and laughed about it, and still laugh about it. Gone are those rolling eyes. Aldermen are not elected to office to pull this kind of childish immature nonsense. When they do they usually get voted out of office, talked about and judged on their behavior. Best they just suck in all the aggravations that often accompany pleasing taxpayers. Let's just let them rely on YOU to get riled up. It seems to be what you do best. And you can sit anywhere there is an empty seat.
Gosh, I feel so small, I mean rolling eyes, and all that, how could I have missed it. Thanks for showing me the light on how real aldermen of character should act.
How much separation pay did Mr. Myers get to leave Crestwood, like Madrid did when she left?
Which leads to the next question, why was she given any separation pay at all?
9:06 AM blogger: in a word, NONE! Mr. Myers left on his own, no request, ergo no separation.
The other two, well I have no idea as the City was in a very good position (I thought) on that one.
Tom Ford
10:29 PM March 10
When did the board approve a code of conduct?
Martha Duchild
You mean Madrid left because she was asked to do so and to help her along we paid her? Why?
Oh how sad, another week and no letters of support for our Mayor in any of the newspapers. Strange how those who have an issue with Roy are not afraid to sign their name to a letter for all to read, but those who support him only post here were they can remain anonymous.
7:01 PM blogger: Out of what left field did that come? The ONLY person I ever saw write a letter to the "paper," or here, and sign their name (other than Tim Trueblood,) was the older Gentleman last week!
On the other hand many of YOU have chosen to post right here under anonymous when you low rate him.
Nice try, but alas, failure, and several of us have signed our names in support of him (just look below!)
Tom Ford
Gasp "older Gentleman" who is also a neighbor of Alderman Neider. What does the age of the writer have to do with anything?
I am pretty sure if there was a mass of silent supporters for Roy in Crestwood at least one of them would have written a letter to a paper in support of him. Fact is most in Crestwood, don't read this blog or really care too much for politics, but when they read what Roy has to say week after week in all the papers, some are going to call attention to his many short comings, some of them being his arrogance and over active ego as expressed in his own words.
Go to a meeting Tom and see for your self how Roy treats Alderman Miguel, when has asks the questions many have said on this blog they want Jerry to do. What do you thing the new time limit for speaking is for? It's to limit Jerry's time to ask questions. If that had been done to Jerry when others were mayor, the gates would have been stormed by now. Sorry Tom, but that is the way I see and read it.
Roy, as you have said, may have a deep heart felt love for Crestwood, but that doesn't excuse him from his short comings, which you and his other supporters refuse to address. I do not trust him based alone on his actions with the 2008 budget as it has been reported and is shown in the minutes of the meetings covering same.
9:00AM blogger: True enough most people in Crestwood do not read this blog, nor do they keep up on current events in Crestwood, and that is VERY SAD INDEED!
However, when it comes to Mayor Robinson, I am afraid you and I must agree to dis-agree. You have deep seated disdain for him, and I see a man who is doing the best he can with the God given talents he has been given.
That said, blog on my friend, I am very happy to read both sides of any issue.
Tom Ford
9:00 AM You don't have to be "sorry" that you differ in view from others regarding Roy. And as far as arrogance, et al, you can also go one step further and say that he is not the first to have that flaw.
In the previous administration, we had those persons who also reeked with arrogance, especially on the dais along with slamming of hands and belitting name calling. And I never saw Tom Fagan slam his gavel down once to stop it. So, only picking Roy out from the stack of offenders isn't exactly the right things to do. None of the previous offenders walked on water either.
Nobody is saying that these traits are good; but as far as I am concerned, I can live with Roy's faults more than I could those made by the previous administraton because Crestwood is now going in the right direction with our finances.
Plus Roy was the only one who had the guts to get rid of Greer who made a mess out of everything along with a big reputation for womanizing his employees and making up his own rules. And Greer originally got his postion of CA from his womanizing mayor friend, who spoke the same language as he did.
So because we are now headed in the right direction albeit slow, I still say, I appreciate your point of view but, as along as we are at least going in the right direction, I will reserve making a lot of noise about Roy's faults.
Everybody has faults so carry on as you wish about Roy, I still say that he has and still wants to do the best for Crestwood.
A Kipling poem that sort of gets to the heart of where we are today!
"The Gods of the Copybook Headings" has proved endearingly popular, despite the fact that copybooks disappeared from schoolrooms in Britain and America during, or shortly after, World War II. A copybook was an exercise book used to practice one's handwriting in. The pages were blank except for horizontal rulings and a printed specimen of perfect handwriting at the top. You were supposed to copy this specimen all down the page. The specimens were proverbs or quotations, or little commonplace hortatory or admonitory sayings the ones in the poem illustrate the kind of thing. These were the copybook headings.
*************************
THE GODS OF THE COPYBOOK HEADINGS
As I pass through my incarnations in every age and race,
I Make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market-Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.
We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.
We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market-Place.
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its ice-field, or the lights had gone out in Rome.
With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings.
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Heading said: "Stick to the Devil you know."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."
Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew,
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four --
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.
* * * * *
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man --
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began --
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mice,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire --
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Tom, you are way over my head with the aforementioned words; and I am afraid that it hurts my brain too much to try and disseminated what their meanings are.
I used to pride myself on my gift of understanding prose and poetry, but it seems that short and sweet is what I prefer now that I am old and on medicare.
You must be a very well-read man as I sit here and try to understand some of your comments. Sometimes I miss your point completely which is my misfortune and has nothing to do with you.
But I do enjoy your comments, at least the ones I can understand and I do enjoy them. No offense intended.
So thanks.
I wondered how long it would be until someone defended Roy by attacking a former Mayor or city employee.
What the other people did is not the issue, the issue is what has Roy done that is good or bad, regardless of those who served before him.
Lack of letters to any paper in support of Roy speaks volumes.
7:33 AM blogger: I don't know about attacking former officials, but support Roy? I do!
I thought about writing a rebuttal to the letter in the "paper" but I really hate to give that bird cage liner any credence, so I didn't.
Roy is welcome at my home any time he wants to come, and I bet you would welcome him as well given the chance.
Tom Ford
News, either in a newspaper or other medium, is by nature negative. People find it interesting. Can you imagine if the front page of the post dispatch was a verbatim lecture of a second grade teacher in her classroom for an hour? It may very well be a glorious portrayl of God's good works, but it'd be boring.
The problem with our weakly paper is they have no sense of balance or integrity. They don't like the Mayor so they try to portray him as less of a leader.
The people of Crestwood would be better off to write them and ask them not to mail you a "paper" as I did several years ago. You'll find you can get the local sports from the Journal without the biased reporting from the "paper".
They have certain guest writers they publish often just so long as it fits their profle. Try to ignore them or better yet, ask their advertisers to go elsewhwere.
11:01 AM That is what I have been trying to tell bloggers many times. I did what you did and told The Call not to send their paper to me a long time ago. I am glad I am not the only one and I agree with your comments 100%.
Their are other papers like the Journal where I can read what is going on without the one-sided view.
Mike Anthony and his paper have always played politics and in doing so will only endorse politicians who give credence to his paper. You will never get anything but his "slant" on what is going on and who is doing what.
His writers follow the leader and will never print anything that is positive about this mayor because his paper was made popular by a past mayor who used it to further his political ambitions. When that person resigned, he never wrote the truth about his resignation. Heavens No! Why bite the hand that feeds you. His paper again slanted the truth.
Mike Anthony fuels political egos and in turn they get in "bed" together and everybody is happy. He gets what is necessary to keep his paper afloat and politicians get all the accolades and homage from his written words.
Mike Anthony has had an allegiance to those who oppose this mayor.
That's what keeps him in business.
As I have said before, if Mike Anthony and his paper throws this administration a "bone", don't accept it as attempting to upgrade his journalistic talents because he has none.
This is my view which I am entitled
just as others have done.
I judge the Mayor on his promises made when he ran against Mayor Fagan and promises kept since he was elected. What I find interesting is many of the promises he made to differentiate from Mayor Fagan, he now is doing, TIF, borrowing money etc. Except for getting Mr. Greer to resign, I can't find any other promises he made and has kept.
This is the topic of this thread isn't it?
1:50 PM But getting rid of Greer was the biggest and most important "thread" that no other mayor had the courage to do.
Without getting rid of him, and electing Roy Robinson as Mayor, there was no way we could go forward in Crestwood, even at this late date because that had to be done first.
As far as promises that were not kept by this mayor; you and I can sit here and predetermine how we would do things if we were in another person's shoes.
If Roy made promises, I ask you this. How many times have we said, "if I were him, I would do this, and this and this". But then when it comes time to fulfill our "plan" we find out more information that causes us to change our minds and not go along with this plan?
Should we be judged or faulted because we couldn't see that our plan wouldn't work? You keep trying to shove that down this mayor's throat and portray him as a liar when that isn't necessarily the truth and you know it.
Like I said before, if the city is now going in the right direction, can't we still agree that at least we are going forward.
I remember the time that my parents promised me a brand new bicycle for Christmas. My parents were not liars and I was counting on that new bike.
I was so happy and couldn't wait for Christmas to come. But when Christmas came, I only got a second hand bike because circumstances were such that it was all they could afford. My father was promised a big bonus for Christmas and didn't get it. So I didn't get the bike I wanted. So should I hold a grudge because I didn't get what I was promised? Does this make my dad a bad person? Does my father belittle his employer or understand that his company's end of the year earnings were not what was planned so my dad and others suffered for it. Things change every day. Sometimes promises don't go forward.
You can hold it against this mayor forever if you so desire; just like my father who could have denounced his boss for making a promise he did not keep. I am frankly tired of dwelling on it as I see this over and over again on this blog.
It really doesn't bother me as much as it does you because as long as I see that the mayor and board are working together for the same goals, I have to say we are way ahead of where we were 3,4 and 5 years ago. The only way it would bother me is if I really didn't like Roy anyway, which I think is the real reason you keep repeating yourself with this plan balony.
You keep nitpicking along with others who had their chance to turn Crestwood around in the past, but chose to keep a sociopath in two prime positions in the City while he was giving latitude to spending money, making his Finance Officer/girlfriend rich (72,000 a year)and calling all the shots on who to let go, who to hire and what to spend money on like Crestwood was Fort Knox. We had more police cars than we could count; that to me isn't teamwork. The Fire Department had to settle for a second hand fire truck because we had no money. What does that tell you.
No No and No, as long as Roy got rid of Don Greer, he still did something everybody else in this city did not do to get rid of the primary source of all the chaos.
It's up to you. I don't feel that faulting Roy for this is necessary because we can see Crestwood moving forward. But if that is the way you feel, I hope that you don't ever have to go through any life-altering situations in your life where you need to hold someone's feet that close to the fire to received satisfaction.
Everybody deserves a little elbow room because nobody is perfect. Things change all the time. You obviously only see what you want to see while others were ripping off Crestwood big time.
We got a wonderful and fine board of aldermen now and they use their brains for more than just sitting on. I am tickled to death about it and they will keep it together.
Thank God!
Sandy Grave
Sandy, the man would have been gone in less than a year, he passed away remember? Now the next c/a leaves after 2 years because as it's now rumored, a few of the Board were being mean to him. Well did the Mayor stop that? No, why not?
Yes we can always say what we would did if we were in charge, but the fact is Roy got the office making promises he hasn't kept, and that's how I judge him.
And just as others have said before, if any one points out the Mayors faults, there are posts here defending him as not as bad as the other guy, or he got rid of Greer and Madrid, (by the way, any idea why is she was such a bad employee, we had to pay her to leave?)
Think about it, and get back to us!
6:07 Thanks for sharing. I appreciate that. Yes, I know that Greer passed away. I also admit that we need to speak about the present and what is happening now.
I also admit that I do not like unfulfilled promises. But in my view I would be much more dismayed about it, if I didn't see Crestwood going forward. It sounds like we at least have revenues coming back a little.
I am not trying to say you are not justified in being upset. But if I were to just dwell on broken promises I could start with our President and go down the list from their. However, if I were to do that and base my whole outlook on just that one thing, I would loose all hope for our future. And I won't let myself go there.
We can't just give up on the Mayor when we don't really know all of the ramifications that he has to deal with that were unforeseen at the beginning.
As far as the CA leaving, I have seen them come and go for over 30 years. They usually move around a lot. As far as what you hear regarding this CA leaving in the rumor mill, it is what it is "rumor". And believe me, it's the rumors that lead people to jump to many wrong conclusions. People want to believe what they here especially if it comes from someone whom we hold in high regard. I've been there and I may be stupid in some people's eyes, but after over 30 years in municipal government, you learn and you know.
I do understand completely how you feel. But please don't give up on our mayor and new board. There are a lot of City Administrators out there that can do the job for us. We will find another. In the meantime, I will never give up on Crestwood. I am counting on our board of aldermen, smart people who took an oath to be our watchdogs. If they do there job, they will also work with the mayor and give him the benefit of their honest and good knowledge. It will all work out. You'll see.
Thanks again for your honesty and consideration.
Sandy Grave
Even so, you would be surprised at how many city administrators jump from one job to another. Why? Mostly because of politics. But they do it all the time. And I really don't think that Frank Myers is leaving because of board of aldermen members.
Roy still has difficulty understanding his position as Mayor. As stated in the Call about Frank Myers, Roy said “But we always worked those out by talking it out. And in the end, Frank did what I asked him to do. And I can't ask for any more."
- The Mayor shall have no authority to intervene or therwise interfere with the exercise by the City Administrator of the powers and duties provided by Section 5.2 of this Charter.
In other words…Roy needs to ‘get out’ of the day-to-day operations of the city. He needs to quit telling prospective developers what they will and will not do…this is not ROYWOOD.
It will be impossible for the city to hire a good CA that can and will stand on his own and do what is best for the city if every candidate must pass the “do as I say’ litmus test of the mayor.
Well we shall see if you are right. There has to be a good rapport between the mayor and the city administrator for sure. And I have seen both kinds.
Our first CA, Dale Rieth was wonderful. I remember when the mayor at that time wanted him to change a few things regarding personnel that were not fair. Dale Rieth stood his ground with the mayor and was not intimidated.
Mr. Rieth also had all of the secretaries and clerks cross trained so that when one went on vacation, sick leave or left, there would be some back up to pick up the slack at any given time. And what that did was give the personnel staff a more rounded education regarding "all" of the city's functions and operations.
We felt we were a team and also felt we were being taken care of fairly because of Mr. Rieth's strong ethics. By giving the secretaries and clerks training, when residents called and ask questions, anyone of us could give the public the correct answer. You didn't have to transfer phone calls all over the place. Then Mr. Rieth resigned and he went to work for the City of Sarasota, Florida. He wanted to pursue other avenues and wanted to retire some day in Florida which he did.
Alan Miller was CA under Carl Buettner. He also was allowed to carry on the day to day operatons of the city without interference, but had a great rapport with the mayor and they worked well together.
However, when Pat Killoren became Mayor, Alan Miller resigned. He received a good offer from his previous employer, the City of Westminster, Colorado and he took it. I also feel that he did not feel he would be compatible working for a woman. Because unlike previous mayors, Pat did not have a day job and could concentrate on spending a lot of time at city hall.
So therefore, I feel that personalities between a CA and a mayor doesn't always work. And in order to make it work, you need to understand the psychology of human nature. Some people just don't fit well with each other.
I don't feel that a rapport has happened yet with Roy and a CA, but I feel that someone will be able to do a good job to satisfy both Roy and the city in general.
It just takes time. I don't feel that Roy would be unreasonable to the right CA and would give that person free reign over the day to day operations of the city. But there has to be good communication between both as well as with the Board of Aldermen. Let's not forget that they, also, play a big part in this whole senario.
Sandy Grave
Sandy Grave
1:39 You are 100% correct!!
Please advise when we got a Code of Conduct as mentioned earlier.
As for me, I prefer that our officials be given due time to speak. What is with this minute/s rule? Some statements take longer than others, are more important and need to be expressed in more detail. This is not Congress for Pete's sake. This is a public forum and I believe my city and its officials are due their say in whatever time it takes to say it and be given due respect. Residents should also be given ample time. Let's not forget whose city this is.
As for the blogger who wonders why no one responded to a negative letter about our Mayor in the CALL. Roy supporters wonder why anyone would wonder. Roy supporters are way too saavy to fall into that silly trap. There is nothing to defend. Roy, along with our BOA are busy putting our city in a better place. Any blame and any praise is shared. There were plans and promises in the campaign literature of all the canditates. It is not always possible to fulfill them due to the unexpected.
As for Mr. Myers, perhaps Glendale will be a better fit. The position has to be able to take some heat and face challenges and accept some blame. It is not for the faint of heart.
Our Mayor and our aldermen are working hard to stabilize Crestwood. They need a strong foundation of support and allegiance from residents, city employees and the CA.
The blogger who runs Roy down at every chance, will need to consider his words; for if Roy ends up turning this city around, this blogger will have to give him full credit since he has given him full blame for so many things.
Trap, a letter to the editor is a trap? Come on.
3:39 PM Very well said and I agree with every word.
Sandy Grave
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Trap, a letter to the editor is a trap? Come on.
5:32 PM, March 17, 2008
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Come On, Come ON
Major Y* A * W * N
Get Over It!
You still at it KT?
While it's true a C/A should have a fair amount of leeway in running the city, you must remember the Mayor and the aldermen must also have their say. They represent the people directly and make the laws. So personalities or not, all parties must be 'grownups.' If the Mayor wants to spend a lot of time at city hall. Fine. His/Her perogative. As for the C/A, he should not apply if municipal government jobs are not suitable for his MO. He simply has to be nimble and realize he has to juggle the elected, the electorate, the employees and the city laws. Yes, I agree, it is not for the feint hearted. Looks like the city has had quite a few C/A's and that they tend to move around a lot. Their ability to be flexible cannot be stressed enough. It is not an ego trip and it is not IBM. A comprehensive knowledge of municipal governance in all its complexities should be paramount in the hiring process of a C/A.
By the way, why do they all seem to accumulate comp time when they leave. Who keeps track of this comp time? As a taxpayer, I would like some accountability on this and have it discontinued. Last one left with $45,000 worth. This belt needs to be tightened.
Do we get the car back this time?
Also, which city employees have a city car provided??? We are 4 sq miles and 12,000 people, and our mall is slipping. Please explain the perks, i.e. gas, cell phones, etc.
Thanks.
You must be thinking of vacation accrued. Salaried exempt employees, i.e. department heads, are exempt from overtime pay under FLSA. It appears the city will buy back accrued vacation time or the leaving employee can get paid for ‘being on vacation’ while at a new job.
As far as cars and cell phones, again I think it is only department heads that have take home cars; cell phones should be free because of the deal made with the cell provider to erect a tower in city halls back yard. That is nickel and dime stuff; it’s just the cost of doing business.
The big dollars are spent on the departments themselves. The city needs to weigh the benefit vs the cost for police, fire and public works. It is awful expensive just to have your own when other options are available. Can anyone remember the last time the fire department had an actual working residential fire?
I cant, when was there one?
me neither. i would rather my house burn to the ground than the FD saving a shell. That's what insurance is for. the police arrive much sooner than the FD anyway, so no savin the babies here.
If Crestwood thinks it's cut to the bone, as aldermen love to put it, they're not looking hard enough. The average annual salary for a Crestwood firefighter is an outrageous $99,000. I know the city has already approved the fire budget. But is that exorbitant salary impossible to cut? How do you think the rest of the city employees feel when they have received microscopically laughable raises in pay over the last few years? While most city employees' salaries were held with little or no raises, the board approved a memorandum of understanding in '06 or '07 with the firefighters and allowed pay raises. If you take time to look at the money budgeted for firefighters' salaries this year and divide it by the number of firefighters in the department, you will see that the average annual pay for Crestwood firefighters is $99,000. Our city administrators don't even make that! If you're paying attention, you'll know that the city is advertising to pay between $75,000 and $95,000 in annual salary to a new city administrator to replace Frank Myers, who made a little over $90,000 a year. I thought the charter states that Crestwood is a city administrator's city. So what does that say about Crestwood when the average firefighter is making MORE than the man in charge of running the city? You can make all the jokes you want about who REALLY runs Crestwood. But it's clear that the city should give NO MORE RAISES to its firefighters until the city's finances have completely turned around, which may take years. If they want to give raises to city clerks and staff, that's fine. It makes a heck of a lot more sense to give raises to them than it does to keep doling out more money to a group of employees earning a whopping $99,000 a year ON AVERAGE. One of Crestwood's wisest and most colorful citizens ever - Jim Murphy - is absolutely right when he says that Crestwood firefighters are OVERPAID
Poster 3:20, Man, now you did it, you are about to be the focus of every nut case who reads this blog.
The fun part will reading bloggers guess who you are.
I believe you a dividing a number that includes salary and benefits, not just salary.
"One of Crestwood's wisest and most colorful citizens ever - Jim Murphy - is absolutely right when he says that Crestwood firefighters are OVERPAID"
Thank you for the compliments but I don't think he said that exactly. In a Freedom of Info request a couple of years ago, he and I looked at salary averages (and other costs as well) for everyone working for Crestwood. I believe he said they might have been paid fairly, but not overpaid.
Another thing - he is definitely against any takeover of our fire department. They have been extremely helpful, compassionate, and timely when he had broken both hips.
Thank you,
Jim Murphy(Jr.)
But aren't benefits a part of the cost of an employee? Unless someone else pays it, it's a cost for the City.
Listen up Nitwit! You do not know of what you are speaking about. If you would have gone to the town hall meeting where this whole issue was discussed, you would not be opening your horn mouth about something which you know nothing about.
An average firefighter only makes about 55,000 a year and if you don't believe me, call the Fire Chief. You are obviously another one of these idiots that believe everything you read. Get a life.
The firefighters are all on a six-day schedule where they are on duty one day, off the next, on duty the next, etc. for 6 days and then they are off 4 days straight.
Some firefighters "moonlight" on their off days and thus along with their salaries from Crestwood could make a good living. I say more power to them especially the young ones with families. Is that so bad?
I wish people like you would shut up instead of acting like you have all the answers. You are one of those who willingly believes everything you hear even when there is correct information out there that you could find on your own but are too lazy to do. That is if you realy want to hear the truth.
And incidently, I have lived in Crestwood almost 40 years, and if only one time your life was saved by one paramedic/firefighter, you might think a little differently about our own fire department as well as police department.
Grow up! Do what I do. If you can't get to a town hall meeting and ask the important questions, call our Fire Chief or Assistant Fire Chief instead of listening to every lame brain idiot who wants to make a name for himself in the papers.
A few weeks ago, there was a house fire on Sappington Road. Chief Kestler was out in the middle of Sappington Road directing traffic without a coat. You, whoever you are, make me sick. You should have to work out in the rain, sleet, snow, putting out fires when it is 100 degrees outside, climbing on roofs and putting yourelf in harms way; I don't care if it only happens twice in 6 months. These people are oh so much better than you will ever be.
I have to laugh, you use Jim Murphy's name in your comment, as if he is oh so smart about everything, but when he does something you don't like, you make fun of him right on this very blog. I say make up your mind, it's one way or the other.
Also, Jim Murphy is no spring chicken any more, let's just hope he never needs CPR or he might change his mind about our firefighters.
Do me a favor, take a long walk off of a short bridge.
Jim Murphy doesn't like the fire department but when it comes time to come to his home and administer CPR or save his house,
Um, let me step in again.
Jim Murphy likes our fire department and it has saved him twice in the past three years. They were helpful to me many years ago too.
Our family is most appreciative of the services our police and fire provide.
Thanks again,
Jim Murphy (Jr.)
RE: poster 4:22, see, what did I tell you about the nut cases?
There are 2 sides to this story. Both are admissable on a blog. However, one was quite incindiary and sounded like it was from a member of the fire profession. Personally, I think it was not helpful to their intent. People by nature want to protect their job, their profession, reputation family, etc. And ... residents want to save their community. Drastic times take drastic measures. We are a small city and we have deserving employees in EVERY department. To make a loud and disturbing and sometimes threatening noise/point when the boat rocks helps nothing. I have always assumed and believed that firemen have a level head due to their occupation. I really want to believe this is true. The only way a city can stay afloat when the distress signal rings is to use reason. If that includes the option of innovative personnel alignment and change, all the bullying in the world won't change it. The city is being run for the good of all. Sometimes that takes some tweaking. City departments are not dart boards.
4:48 No Sir, I am not a "nut case". The person who decided to put false information on this blog about what firefighters in Crestwood make is the "nut case".
I am angry that's for sure but I do get angry when people make statements about important issues that are not correct and they don't take the time to research information before they tell untruths to the world. Other people believe them and cause people in Crestwood to actually believe that firefighters make $99,000 a year. Then those people get all upset and get upset with the city which is so unfair!!!!
My Gosh if we were to not have someone refute it, people would actually believe that firefighters in Crestwood almost make "six figure" incomes.
It happens all the time and it upsets me. People are so misinformed about important things because big mouths like the other blogger don't know what they are saying.
Sorry if you think I am a nut case. I wonder what you think the other blogger is.
That is all HYSTERICAL.
Suit yourself!
To Jim Murphy Jr. You also should be upset with the comments made at 3:20 March 18th because you, yourself said that your father didn't exactly say the firefighters were over paid. Doesn't that upset you at all that people use your dad's name and gets information in error?
It isn't the first time that people either give your dad a bad rap or put words in his mouth.
Unfortunately, I wrote my comment before you had a chance to rephrase things and I am sorry. But I just wonder how many people in this city vote on things at the polls and base them only on what some crack pot said to them who was misinformed by another crack pot and the beat goes on.
I am sorry if I offended you or your father, but things stated to be true statements that are not, just get everyone confused.
Thanks.
3:20 PM blogger the "Call" newspaper made a mistake in printing the $99,000 figure. I know that's hard for you to believe but here are the facts. They divided the entire Fire budget minus capital improvements by the total number of employees to get this $99,000 average.The simple truth is that this budget pays for more than salaries. Had you been around when Don Greer was cutting staff to save the City you would have heard that the loss of a Police or Fire position saves about$70,000 a year in salary and benefits. Instead of repeating a mistake made by the "Call" why don't you go to City Hall and get the information? Your other comments are also inaccurate and that information is also available at City Hall.
6:02 PM, March 18, 2008
No offense taken and no apology necessary.
Have a Happy Easter!
Take care,
Jim Murphy (Jr.)
6:03 I got my information from City Hall before I wrote my comment. But you, on the other hand, believe the tripe you read in The Call, and The Call did not bother to ask the city how they equate the salaries of firefighters or they would have never come up with that erroneous figure.
You are so stupid as to believe what The Call says when everyone knows The Call will slant just about anything that is positive regarding this administration.
Secondly, you believed the biggest sociopathic CA we ever had, which proves my point that you based your information on the person that was never out to make this City anything other than his own dynasty.
You, sir have been truly misguided. I guess in your opinion we should use money and build a statue in Greer's honor too Huh? That's the least we can do because of all the wonderful things he did for Crestwood while he was ripping us off. Right?
Again, I got my information from City Hall first hand instead of relying on the two most aweful sources of tripe on the planet.
Next time, why don't you go straight to the source?
7:24 blogger, obviously you you missed the point.After the first townhall meeting the "Call" printed an article on the meeting and presented the $99,000 average salary. I was pointing out that error to you. I do not like the "Call" newspaper and their yellow journalism. That is what I was trying to point out to you their mistake. I doubt that anyone at City Hall gave you that $99,000 figure. I did go to City Hall and was told $70,000 was the average for fire salary & benefits.I got my information from the Fire Chief. Apparently you think he gave me the wrong information.
On the Subject of Don Greer, I detested the man. But $70,000 was the figure he presented to the board during open budget meetings.
But it appears that I will be unable to convince you that $70,000
is a more appropriate figure than $99,000. I think your elevator does not go to the top.
NUT CASE # ONE has spoken, you nitwit whose elevator doesnt go all the way to the top.
That should settle if for you.
Speaking of which, got the Journal yesterday and no letter supporting our Mayor in it.
10:15 pm Mar. 18 - There seems to be some confusion.
The comment made at 3:20 pm on 3/18stated that the average annual salary for a Crestwood firefighter is 99,000.
I responded to that comment at 4:22 3:18
Then YOU or SOMEONE I THOUGHT WAS YOU came up with the nonsense at 6:03 PM 3/18 which said nothing about detesting Greer or The Call and actually gave the opposite impression. Therefore maybe that comment came from another blogger. If so, I apologize.
So my comment at 7:24 pm on 3/18 was directed to the comment at 6:03pm 3/18. So perhaps there were two different bloggers and that is where the confusion lays.
In any event, if I confused you or others, it was not my intention.
But the person who commented on 6:03 pm on 3/18 doesn't seem to share my feelings or yours about the previous CA or The Call newspaper.
My remarks at 7:24 pm were strictly directly or the blogger at 6:03 pm.
My remarks at 4:22 pm on 3/18 was a reply to the person who commented at 3:20 PM 3/18.
If you are unhappy with the Call and the previous CA, you also should be very unhappy with those same comments.
Maybe we should forget about the whole thing anyway; after all the mix up, it's hardly worth saying anything further.
All I know is there are more persons than myself whose elevator gets stuck sometimes.
I talked to an elevator repair person once. I asked how he liked his job. He said it had its "ups and downs."
Here's a thought for all of you;
the average household income in Crestwood is less that $50,000 a year.
The average pay given a Crestwood Firefighter is either $99,000 or $70,000 a year with or without the cost of benefits. Depends on who you believe, but in any case I would find it hard to understand anyone saying they are being underpaid by a city whose finances are:
1. unstable.
2. needs to ask for another tax increase.
3. where it's citizens average income is at least $20,000 a year less than what it's average Crestwood firefighter is paid.
Just wanted you to think about this.
You should have said something at the town hall meeting.
Why, would doing so change the math? What difference would it have made? The Crazies who post here in defense of the Fire Service wouldn't have believed it and from past observations would call me every thing under the sun, as exampled by their actions against poster who started this conversation.
P.S. I am not that poster.
3:24 PM The previous comments made by some bloggers shows that there is a wide difference between the two amounts focused on regarding firefighter's salaries.
The better way to handle this argument maybe should be to do it like comparables on real estate values.
What do the other cities pay their firefighters? That should clear up this whole mess because if other communities are in the same range as Crestwood's pay, that amount could tell us the story.
Otherwise, we are just going round and round with what The Call's version is as well as other versions.
But that being said, did you ever stop and think of why The Call handpicked just the firefighter salaries as being a big issue?
Why not the police officer salaries, or the Public Works salaries?
This whole thing boils down to one thing. The firefighters were vocal in backing Roy Robinson for mayor. The Call has always been on the opposite political side of the administration under Roy Robinson. Therein is your answer.
I will say it again and still. The Call Newspaper will always play politics and undermine this administration at any given time.
Mike Anthony has always been opposed to it and will undermine it every time he can.
He may throw them a "bone" every so often, but he will always cheer for the opposition and it has been that way since Jim Robertson ran for mayor.
The End
I don't agree that the pay for a firefighter or police officer for that matter should be tied to the avg value of the home in a city.
Why, if that was the case then the argument could be made that Sunset Hills is underpaying for their services. I think the pay rate is a direct function of what the average income is within a city.
As far as the Call and the rest of your post, who cares one bit what the Call says about this, whether it is $70000 or $90000 the fireman in Crestwood is getting paid more that the avg person makes in Crestwood. And since the person is the one who pays the tax bill, not the house, it is the person's ability to pay that must be the measurement.
In closing, don't you get a little tired of blaming a newspaper, former elected and non elected officials for every thing that comes up that is current elected official's problem? I know I get tired of reading that as the excuse.
3:24 PM blogger: From your own words, " The Crazies who post here in defense of the Fire Service"
Excuse me! Crazies in defense of the fire service! What the heck is that supposed to mean?
Whatever it is that tells you that it's "crazy" to defend the fire and police service we have in Crestwood, is way out of line!
I pray that you will never need either of them, but if you do, they WILL RESPOND, and they will save your sorry tail as they are professionals!
By the way, when they get there, tell them how much you think they are a waste of money!
Tom Ford
5:13 PM You DO NOT UNDERSTAND MY COMMENT. I NEVER SAID that the pay for a firefighter is TIED to the value of our homes. Hello and pay attention!!!!
Since the topic of conversation on this blog has been wages of the Crestwood Firefighters, a more realistic way to see if they are being paid too much is to have someone do some research of ALL CITIES IN THE COUNTY that have their own Fire Department, make a list and COMPARE THEIR WAGES TO WHAT WE PAY FIREFIGHTERS IN CRESTWOOD.
I NEVER SAID TO TIE IT TO THE VALUE OF OUR HOMES. Understand?
Good Grief! If you ever get your house appraised, the appraiser will look at homes that are comparable to yours, BEFORE THEY APPRAISE IT. So, if you want to see if the firefighters salaries are too high, you COMPARE THEM WITH OTHER CITIES WHO HAVE FIRE DEPARTMENTS!!!!!! Wake Up and Smell the Coffee!!!!
And in closing, NO I don't get tired of blaming anyone who is an editor of a newspaper who is irresponsible and gives misinformation to the public, whether it be The Call, or any other form of media. And that also goes for people like YOU who obviously have a hard time understanding what you read and get everything all crossed up.
To boil things down, the CALL and its editorial staff and owner are not the bottom line on anything. They are a slanted little newspaper that is mailed to homes in the area. Now to define slanted one has only to say that when a paper supports just one side of every issue on every issue, it can hardly be defined as newsworthy.
As for firemen's salaries, I can't see how anyone could argue with the fact that the recommendation that firemen's salaries in other communities be looked into as a base for comparison is not a good idea. It is a great idea! While it is not anyones intention to be unfair in this regard, it is also not okay for voters paying a tax increase in a city which needs to count pennies to be intimidated in the least by a Fireman's Union. How many firemen does a city this size need; what is the going rate; and why does the poster on here who is so obviously a fireman scream fire anytime the sun shines on that department? Firemen are supposed to save lives and put out fires. They are thanked and appreciated. So, by the way are the other departments. Now, soon as we know what the going rate is, we can determine if this is a department that, unlike the others, does not or does have budget cuts and is comparable to the salaries in other cities of this size. As it is now, everytime this conversation arises, hostility seems to surface. Why? There is nothing wrong with looking into the salaries issue and establishing the fact that the salaries are average or not. This is not making a mountain out of a molehill. It is the kind of logic which determines a city's budget, its fairness to all employees and its ability the balance the budget in trying times. If all's well that ends well, good deal. In the meantime, getting huffy over this matter serves no one.There are just some things the public has a right to know.
10:59 PM You are as right as rain my friend. All I did was make a suggestion as to how to go about making a salary comparison with other fire departments. But as I said previously, I have my own idea regarding why the salary of firefighters is all the bloggers are interested in but no other city department is scrutinized.
Also, no I am not a firefighter. Far from it. I am just a citizen who wants to keep our public safety employees rather than do away with our police and fire services to save money.
And yes, I sure do get all upset when I hear things that mislead city residents.
I feel that right now, Crestwood is in a very weak condition, money wise. It's been hit with a gigantic problem. Plus these are hard times for all of us here in the United States. Investors know it too and that is all the more reason why commercial property is not selling. This is a big factor when you are a point of sale city.
Crestwood's mayor and board are trying very hard to turn things around without having to sell the farm!
To have bloggers pick it apart, throw stones, and make statements which are not true is wrong. Allowing other entities like (The Call) to slant or ridicule and beat it down with every stroke of the pen, bothers me.
Those who choose to believe everything they read, are not interested in finding out the truth. They just sit and read this tripe while having their morning coffee and believe it.
What Crestwood needs now are citizens who will encourage the administration, and help strengthen a positive attitude in the community.
People need to stop playing games and start backing our city government.
Everyone in this town had the opportunity to run for mayor if they really cared. Nobody ran against Roy so if you have a "beef" about what is going on, throw your hat in the ring next time or shut up. You might find that sitting in the mayor's seat isn't all it's cracked up to be.
I love my city and I am 100% for keeping our public safety personnel and I am proud of it. If I offended anyone because of the emphasis I place on factual information, well, that's the way I feel.
I am glad you agreed with my comments. Your comments are well taken. I,too, want to keep our services intact and local and I want salaries to be comparable to other districts with same areas, population, etc. And I want all our city employees to have this benefit, even though they are not in a union. We are not in a spot to afford high salaries in any department because all that does is cause downsizing. Municipal employees pretty much know that their jobs are serving a city and the rules are not like out in the corporate world, and the chances of getting rich are slim to nothing. In other words, it does take an amount of understanding of this plus dedication and extra elbow grease. Right now, there are a lot of people losing jobs i.e. Western Union (check the daily paper for more. Most could handle a municipal job. In light of this economic fact, we should not lose sight of this. I do not know what cuts have been made in the Fire Dept. Perhaps they covered that at the Town Hall Meeting. All I know is we all want our city to hang in there, and sacrifice is the going word for now. Take it or leave it. Like with Dow Jones and Westfield Crestwood, we can only wait and hope.
To all you bloggers I will simply say that Crestwood is a great little community, with good residents and great city employees.
And yes, we are in a bit of a tight situation as a result of projected revenues but when things get tight, you can only cut so much before there is nothing left to cut and then what. There are only so many revenue streams that can be utilized to generate revenue and the city is using them all. Unfortunately, with the mall in limbo and losing tennats we are not only losing sales tax revenue but business license revenue and utility revenues that are paid by those mall tennants. At some point the expenditures will exceed revenues and our elected city officials will be faced with some very dire consequence decisions.
I attended all three town hall meetings and what concerns me most is the lack of interest Crestwood citizens have for our citys operations and cost of doing business. We are a community of about 11,000 plus residents and approximately 5000 households and I don't believe more than 70 residents attended any one of the meetings. I found these meetings very informative and came away personally, with a much better understanding of what it costs to run a city the size of Crestwood. We aren't blessed with huge commercial businesses like Clayton, we don't have entertainment districts like U-City, Clayton or St. Louis. We are a small bedroom community with great schools, wonderful neighborhoods and a great central location. We have a lot here to be grateful for including our wonderful parks, quiet neighborhoods, and great city fire and police who make us feel safe in our homes. All this is provided to us at, what appears to be, one of the lowest tax rates around. So let's not blame the mall, the mayor or our elected officials for our difficult times,lets not blame our city salaries or personel,and lets stop blaming the past for something we can't change. Let's look at the present. We are the ones to blame.
Think about it before you complain. If our neighbor needed help we would offer whatever assistance needed, when a telethon is on TV we pledge money, we even give money to the homeless on street corners. Why is it that we help everyone else but we won't help ourselves. Sad, very sad. Just my thoughts
The last blogger expressed some very nice sentiments. This blogger
is obvioulsy a resident who is paying attention and cares. It was a feel good blog.
I don't know why more did not attend meetings. But it is either: too busy; thinks it is in good enough hands and don't know what their contribution could be; have their heads in the sand/denial; or just got fed up with past politicians and their shenanigans. I think most really do care especially since this administration has taken steps in the right direction. Nowdays everyone makes the 'too busy' excuse and this is really a shame. Their lives are passing them by. They really do need to get involved and be part of our future.
I think we should be proud and grateful that the city had the 3 Town Hall Meetings. 70-80 people each time can keep the candle lit. Thanks to all the city employees, dept. heads, etc. who planned and participated and the board who helped make it happen. It is a great first step in our future. Our city has everything we could ask for outside a thriving mall. Now we must just sit tight and see if a new development breathes new life into our city.
Why did City pay Ms. Madrid when she left but not Frank?
Is rumor true that Kent L. may be asked to come back as City Administrator? After all, we are still paying him over $70,000 a year, the mayor is in his corner and we might as well get something for our money.
Please, perish the thought re: Licklider. Also, he rec'd a settlement and not a continuing salary. If this is not the case, things are rotten in Denmark. Meyer is leaving of his own accord and doing what is called changing jobs. His new job is a better fit to his abilities, it fits his comfort zone. He appears to be a job changer.
For a time, former officials saw fit to fill the pockets of favorites when they left for no earthly reason that was not contrived and which helped deplete city funds. While, you are so curious, find out the real reason Jim Robertson resigned. Turning over some rocks could be interesting. As for Madrid, there are no words to describe this ridiculous situation. This is what happens when you turn the city completely over to a CA with no integrity.
2:46 pm Where did you ever come up with "we are paying Leichliter $70,000 a year???? How did you come up with that? First I heard of it. What great mind told you that story?
Where did you ever get the idea that Leichliter was coming back as CA???? Another Rumor from the Rumor Mill? Just another disceptive lie that somebody is having fun waving in front of stupid people who believe stupid people.
I can't think of a more obvious way to stir up the "pot" than to put that out there for us to swallow.
I believe that you are one of those who loves to create chaos. Only this time, I am going to consider the source.
I have never heard of such nonsense in my life.
Why did Madrid get money and not Frank? Because she was basically fired. Frank is leaving of his own doing.
Besides, she was Greer's darling and since most of the board members adored Greer, he was able to get them to sign off on anything he wanted.
I'm surprised they didn't have a big going away party for Greer with weepers in the background sad because he was going. But Greer was ready to leave and screw up the next town by then anyway.
6:12 PM blogger: And when he got to the next town the first thing they got was an "adult sex shop!"
That was followed close by with gang problems at their Mall!
What a guy! I am amazed you only have to pay a bit under $100,000.00 a year to get such genius!
Tom Ford
Tom: How come your so full of hate for everyone.
7:08 PM blogger: "So full of hate?" Well if listing the EX C/A's accomplishments is "hate" it's news to me!
It is, what it is, nothing more or less. I know you don't want to believe it, but it's all on record, look it up!
Better question is why do you never miss a chance to low rate our Mayor?
Sorry, but I reject your comment as ridiculous!!
Tom Ford
6:12 hit the nail on the head whereas 7:08 remains a victim of his own need to expose a vein and advanced pettiness. This city is way beyond coverups. The word is out about all the indescretions and mistakes from 'before.' Nothing you insinuate can alter the truth 7:08.
Why did we did we have to pay Madrid if she was fired for cause? I thought Greer was gone before she left? Kent is still being paid by the City, just ask anyone at City Hall, it was part of the deal the Mayor made to get city out of law suites. Would it b a bad idea for him to return?
How come paying the Fire chief an extra $1000 a mth to do two jobs as C/A is ok but it was bad to pay a Police chief an extra $835 a month to do 2 jobs?
"As Sigmund Freud once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results!"
Tom Ford 12:04 March 8 2008
8:12 AM blogger: I suppose you have the documents to support these remarks. You know like pay stubs, or some other source of proof.
I doubt that what you have stated here will pass for gospel without them.
Tom Ford
8:12 am Leichliter is not taking money from the city. He is living off of his pension from the City as many other employees who are vested. There are several funds he could have put money in when he was CA. There was "no deal" with the mayor and Leichliter. You are either a liar who wants to stir up trouble, or you are part of a rumor mill and want to believe the worst so you can spread out your propaganda.
Here we go again with liars who love to shake up the troops. All you want to do is hitch the mayor with Leichliter to make him look suspicious. It isn't working.
You doubt that the city had an out of court settlement with Kent to stop the law suite and the final payment for same is this year?
Ask Alderman Miguel or the Mayor, they were there. Why is this spreading of a rumor if it is the truth?
Are you doubters saying that Madrid was fired or quit? Either way, was she given separation (hush money?) pay? Sandy Grave had a settlement which was a lot less than Madrid's, why? Kent's was the largest of the three, why?
Hasn't the Mayor already attached himself to Kent Leichliter with his statements of being in his corner, visiting Kent in his home and driving the of court settlement with Kent. And if Kent did no wrong, then what's wrong with the Mayor being attached to him?
Again ask the Mayor or Miguel and see what they say. Shake up what troops, or better still whose troops are you talking about? If all the answers to these questions are the truth, then why the name calling?
6:12 PM blogger: And when he got to the next town the first thing they got was an "adult sex shop!"
That was followed close by with gang problems at their Mall!
What a guy! I am amazed you only have to pay a bit under $100,000.00 a year to get such genius!
Tom Ford
Sounds like Fairview Htgs needed a new Police Chief, Greer was the City Administrator, remember?
You hate the late Don Greer so much you can't even get his position right to blame him. Sad Tom, very sad what you are doing to yourself
8:12 NONESENSE! Leichliter IS NOT ON THE PAYROLL IN CRESTWOOD, SO STOP MAKING IT SOUND THAT WAY. I CHECKED WITH CITY HALL TOO. The City had to make payments until the terms of the lawsuit were met and THAT'S ALL AND THAT'S OVER WITH. Go to City Hall and look it up but don't see only what you want to see.
The Fire Chief's personal vehicle isn't being funded by the City. Greer's was! And Greer was being paid far more than JUST $1000. Also this fire chief is only the acting city administrator until they hire another one.
With Greer, once he acquired the two positions, he made demands to get money for anything he so desired and he got it.
$72,000 a year he paid his sweety in the Finance Department. No questions asked by the mayor or board members about it. No Finance person ever got that much money before. We never paid anyone that much for that job; but Greer got it for Madrid and nobody asked any questions.
The previous fire chief also was acting city administrator several times while we hired a new CA. He, also, never asked for the city to put up any money for his personal vehicle, much less a brand new, state of the art, BMW. But the city fathers gave it to Greer. He cheated and lied and made others look bad to get what he wanted; his own personal City filled with people he hand picked who would do anything and everything he so desired. People either left or were fired without cause. And it was a disaster.
Also the previous Fire Chief was asked if he would like to be the new City Administrator and he declined. HOWEVER, if he did accept it, the Assistant Fire Chief would have been installed as the new Fire Chief. THEREFORE, HE WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN HOLDING DOWN TWO POSITIONS.
I can see the handwriting on this one. You will choose to give us half-truths and make up stories, to get everyone upset because that is your goal. Why don't you just move somewhere else and see what you can bitch about. Go out to Fenton and help them sandbag.
We the citizens of Crestwood want to get down to business and make our City work again.
They are a slanted little newspaper that is mailed to homes in the area..... Not much "journalisim" being practiced at the Call. They missed, or chose not to cover, the biggest story in Crestwood history.... why a certian Mayor resigned after a certain holiday party to save his skin and how his buddy Police Chief worked his "majic" to make sure that no trail was left.
Actually, the certian Mayor resigned, because the heat was getting too hot even for DG to handle as the St. Louis County Prosacuting Attorney made several inquires into the event. DG was able to take care of it, but the deal was that JIMBO had to go.
11;18 AM blogger: Hate Don Greer? why he is dead! Why should I hate him? I admit he was less than stellar in my eyes, but now that he's DEAD, I have no time for him.
Wrong job? Do you really think the police chief allowed the adult book store into the city? No, it was the doing of the Board and the C/A, just as it would be here.
Sad? no, but I do have a word for your continued trite diatribe under the name "anonymous," Pathetic, very pathetic!
Tom Ford
12:03 March 22 Yeah! God Bless You whoever you are. Love it! Love it! Love it! At last I know somebody out there does know the real truth.
Why did City pay Ms. Madrid when she left but not Frank?
Because she had a VERY good sexual harrasment claim against the City. You see, the JIMBO R. and Tommy F., two lawyers by the way, allowed their CA/Police Chief to have a “social relationship” with a subordinate employee who he hired, supervised and promoted.
Another story that the Call chose to look the other way on.
11:18 and 12:13
Hate is a very strong word. However, if you had no respect for a person when alive, how can you respect them after death?
Hate is probably not a word that the Almighty God likes to here, but I imagine that He also doesn't like a hypocrite either.
As far as Greer's untimely death, we all have to answer to one person (the Almighty) after death, which is what I believe.
When it comes time to do that, each one of us will be on our own while all of our sins are called out. I will have many, but a liar and a hypocrite, I am not. Neither am I a wolf in sheep's clothing such as the previous CA or A previous mayor.
Some say to leave the judging up to the Judge and not to condemn those who have scorned and hurt you. I personally struggle with that every day dealing with two people at city hall. It is my hope that some day I can also not condemn. Sometimes principles are more important than greed to all the naysayers.
Sandy Grave
You doubt that the city had an out of court settlement with Kent to stop the law suit and the final payment for same is this year?
Kent actually did the City a favor, he dropped his counter suit and just asked to have the terms of his original separation agreement enforced and have the City pay his lawyer.
The suit that Don G and JIMBO R. spent nearly $500,000 (Way more because we are still paying for it because it was all on the LOC.) on (All given to Don G’s chosen lawyer buddy.) was a complete disaster. It went on and on with Greer and Madrid trying to avoid being deposed because they knew what questions would be asked… like the fact that the “Forensic Audit” was actually written by them. (The Forensic Auditor was already on record as saying that he didn’t write it and had never seen the final draft given to the Board…. That is why his company DRROPED the City has a client.)
The suit was bogus from the beginning and was driven by two egomaniacs who were out of control. In the end their egos got the best them. They chose not turn Kent’s counter suit over to the City’s insurance carrier because the insurance carrier would appoint their own lawyer who Don and JIMBO couldn’t control.
The City’s case collapsed when Roy started looking at legal bills and asking questions... like why Don G had rescheduled his deposition THREE times. He then found out that the City was wide open to Kent’s counter suit as the insurance carrier would decline to cover the City on any loss. Kent could have very easily counter sued and walked away with the keys to City Hall.
12:31 PM You are right. The Call did not tell the real story regarding "JIMBO" because he was the one that got The Call rolling in Crestwood with his campaign. The Call doesn't bite the hand that feeds it. Great Foundation for the truth!!!!
The Call chose their words very carefully regarding that settlement and as a debt of gratitude STILL will never, ever print anything other than a "slant" when it comes to this administration. Simply put, The Call is very much opposed to this administration because the two previous mayors adopted Mike Anthony and The Call as their very special voice. Too bad in their bid for honesty and integrity, The Call chooses to print bias and slant.
Very well said Sandy! the one who is posting all this nonsense is no doubt a disgruntled EX employee, or official, or their wife!
They are OUT, GONE, and the City is much the better for it!
Tom Ford
checked with City Hall on Saturday? Please, who did you check with?
1:13 I do not doubt the out of court settlement regarding the lawsuit. But you commented or someone else made it sound like Kent Leichliter was still on the Payroll and getting paid on the second and fourth of each month. That is what I thought you meant.
As far as what Kent had to settle for, I agree that he could have walks away with the keys to the City.
He could have gone through with a lawsuit. Why didn't he? Because he knew the corruption and chaos that Greer and his partners in crime could come up with. In a court of law, Greer had control of lots of people who would perjure themselves to sway the court. Make no bones about it. You don't know what we were dealing with when it came to Greer.
After all, he had been planning to put Kent in the toilet for several years cause he wanted Kent's job. Kent on the otherhand thought Greer was his friend and trusted him.
You see, once you become King as Greer called himself, you have servants who do nothing but try to please the King. He handpicked his people. Greer would have put anyone one the witness stand who would perjure themselves and make Leichliter and others look bad.
Greer was paid an extra $835 a month to do the job of Police Chief and City Administrator. He asked the income be show as a car allowance, there by changing his tax exposure for the income. He chose to buy a car (BMW) for use as the C/A and Police Chief, which relieved the City of any cost for insurance, repair, up keep or fuel for a car they provided.
The City contrary to all that has been said on this blog, DID NOT FURNISH DON GREER A BMW. Are all of you so stupid to not know the difference between a city provided car and a car you BUY with your earned income to be used for City business?
The Fire Chief is being paid an extra $1000 a mth while he acts as C/A. If he wanted to buy a Yugo to be used for his work he could. Would you say then the City provided him a Yugo?
Ms. Madrid had a strong sexual harassment suite against the City, who at the City? Greer, at the time of his death, they were engaged to be married, so who was harassing her who could have been her boss?
1:21 I didn't check today with City Hall but I have been very much involved with this mini-series of events since 2003. Greer, Leichliter, Robertson, Fagan, Grave and Wuebbels.
You made it sound like Kent was still on the payroll and getting a check every two weeks!!!!
You are talking about part of his settlement which was being paid on a partial basis by the city.
Your original words made us believe he was still getting a "payroll check" as well as linking him with Roy making it sound like Roy was secretly giving city money to Leichliter. That's why I got upset. Read the comments again.
Thanks.
1:43 The City made that car payment. Over $800 a month! Boy I am glad he didn't ask for a Bentley or a Ferrari. They would have had to give him lots more than an $800 plus allowance but he would have received it.
Plus, "he had to pay for the upkeep, etc." What kind of upkeep does a brand new, high end car cost to operate? Give me a break. Don't expect people to buy into that balony. Greer was for Greer. His girlfriend was dumb as a box of rocks and he could control her and that's what he wanted. He was way too controlling and strong willed to have any other kind of relationship.
Boy, don't call everybody else stupid just look in the mirror.
Of course, maybe you are just another girl that was in his herem. Loved girls, lots of girls.
Sexual harrassment lawsuit by Madrid? Ha. Knowing her past as I do, it was just another way to get more money; probably thought up by her lover Greer. Ms. Madrid had a well known reputation for having no brains and lots of boyfriends who did all her work in the Finance Officer's Association and was laughed at by many.
Ms. Madrid had a strong sexual harassment suite against the City, who at the City? Greer, at the time of his death, they were engaged to be married, so who was harassing her who could have been her boss?
The claim would have been against the City... The same type of claim that she made when she was at the City of Manchester.
Greer was paid an extra $835 a month for doing two jobs for the City, he asked it be to be paid to him as a car allowance in order to reduce the tax impact on him. He took the car allowance and turned ih his City provided cars, both the one for Police Chief and C/A and purchased a BMW as their replacement. He was now responsible for this car's up keep, fuel and expenses, not the City.
The City paid Greer an extra $850 a month for doing two jobs for the City. He spent it on a car. Kessler is paid an extra $1000 a mth for doing two jobs for the City, he could buy a boat, family entertainment center or anything he wanted to, including a car. Greer did not ask the city buy him a BMW, he bought it with the money he was paid.
Prove that Ms. Madrid was as dumb as a box of rocks, give us her IQ.
How would you know what kind of relationship Greer wanted, are you one of his former girl friends? You seem to know an awful lot about his personal life to not be one.
Where did you know Madrid in the past to support your claims? Former city employee who was jealous of her or still is?
Are you a member of the Finance Members Assoc. do know how she got her job competed?
Here's an idea, since she was so bad, lets re-hire Bob Wuebbles for Financial Officer. I understand we are running an ad for one along with the one for C/A, why not rehire Bob?
Who was the person the sexual harassment charges Ms. Madrid might have filled against? Wasn't Greer, so who was it. If she her claim had no merit, why did the Mayor pay it? Why would he do that if there was nothing to it?
Greer was paid an extra $835 a month to do the job of Police Chief and City Administrator.
Tim, you left out the part that you and Robertson made him the SECOND highest paid police chief in St. Louis County, as well as the part in which Ms. Madrid, whith the consent of JIMBO, figured the dpreciation on a reletivlely new Dodge Interpid city car as a POLICE vechicle to drop the value way down. You and JIMBO then talked the Board into allowing the Big D. to purchase said car at a bargin basement price from the City in exchange for unused vaction time. The Intrepid was then traded in on the shinny new BMW at Kelly Blue Book price, way more than it was purchased from the City for.
Poster 3:12 PM, March 22, 2008
Lay off Bob W. Bob was very well respected Finace Officer in his prime. The man was involved in a horrible accident and unfortuantley was in severe, untreatable, pain and probably got addicted to some very nasty prescription pain killers. He should have resigned his position when he couldn’t do his job, but didn’t. That was the only mistake he made.
What was Ms. Madrid’s excuse screwing up everything she touched? Being a member of Mensa doesn’t make you street smart.
3:15 PM Boy am I glad you are on the blog to set Timmy straight. It seems most of the time, I am all alone when trying to make factual statements about what Mr. Greer has done to our city.
Many people say that they are tired of going over this stuff in the past; but then someone comes along and begins to say things that are so untrue and inaccurate that someone else has to come forward.
I can tell the other blogger whether it be Timmy or someone else that I am not out to prove anything cause I don't have too regarding Diana Madrid and her checkered past. I have already seen and heard it first hand. So the burden of proof isn't on me. This blogger needs to find out things for himself.
Maybe he should be talking to other members of the Mo. Finance Officer's Association like I did.
I have never, nor wil I ever say things that are rumor or supposition. I don't have too.
Timmy when you try to justify Greer or Madrid, all you are doing it for is to convince yourself that you didn't buy into a pack of liars big time when you were in office. Too bad you and other members of the board of aldermen won't admit you were suckered into his maise just like others.
3:26 Amen. I commend you for sticking up for Bob. If anything, Bob was too good and was too darn honest. Also, you will never find a kinder or better person on this earth than Bob Wuebbels.
And to see what Greer put in his place as far as Finance Officer makes me sick. Madrid had been going around the different municipalities for years trying to find a job. She has even come to the City of Crestwood asking Bob if he knew of any available jobs on more than one occasion.
Everyone knew her by reputation and Greer used her because of it. First he would have to "ground" her and that wasn't hard. Then he could use her as a front and concoct as many reports and charts he saw fit, and sign her name to them. If someone saw them as being erroneous, she would get the blame and not him. He couldn't do that with Bob in control.
Make no mistake, Greer's was a carefully thought out plan. Yes, a guy who had his beginnings in his own little mafia town near Bathalto, Ill. where he learned how to could control people.
He left Crestwood high and dry with more money than anybody and made sure of it. He even went as far as computing his time sheets a different way than the rest of the employees and Kent went along with it. He had Kent duped from the get go and he too ended up being betrayed by Judas just like many others.
Make no mistake, any way he could squeeze money out of this city, he did it. It was always about himself, his insaciable egocentric self.
Then how come Alderman Maddox voted for the deal if it was such a bad one?
3:34 when did you work with Greer and Madrid to know anything?
Maybe you can tell us who was the subject of the sexual harassment suite she filed, if she file one at all?
5:47 PM If you read what the blogger at 3:06, March 22 said, Madrid tried to do the same thing with the City of Manchester. What does that tell you? What are the chances that a sexual harrassment charge is claimed for a second time in another City? Look at the time frame! It happened and was brought about when her job and Greer's were under fire.
You want to bet if Greer's job was secure, there would have been nothing said about a sexual harrassment suit with Madrid?
Boy what a gal. Sounds like the perverts are all coming out like dogs in heat for Ms. Madrid. First in Manchester, then in Crestwood. My gosh, she might have to hire a body guard like one of the movie stars. Give me a break.
Oh, you mean the bogus one that Don and she tried to pin on Roy?
If you mean one against the City regarding her "social" relationship with Greer.... didn't say she filed it. Just the fact that you her immediate supervisor acknowledging the hanky panky opened the City to a huge claim. All she had to do was say that some type of adverse action was taken against her because of it and the City would be spending more money to defend itself… far cheaper to pay her off and get her gone.
Happy Easter to the following:
1. Roy Robinson
2. Tom Fagan
3. Jim Robertson
4. Don Greer
5. Diana Madrid
6. Kent Lichliter
7. St. E's
8. Crestwood Swim Club
9. Kelly Isherwood
10. Tim Trueblood (see 12.)
11. Current Aldermen
12. Past Aldermen and Women
13. Firemen
14. City Business owners
15. Policemen
16. All City Employees
17. Organ donors
18. Tom Ford (sorry Tom)
19. Jim Murphy
20. Lewis and Clark
21. Shaefer Auto Body
22. Long Elementary Class of 95' If I forgot you I am very sorrry!
Easter Bunny
12:51 PM blogger: And a very happy Easter to you as well! That's the spirit, E. BUNNY!
Tom Ford
Happy Easter to you Tom, to all in Crestwood and to the 12:51 blogger! The best to all and warm wishes for a great Spring and Summer.
Is there no end to the T&KTRU show?Geez get back to the trucks and tables.
We all have long ago connected all the dots, so please don't waste any more time trying to defend the indefensible. You wasted a perfect opportunity to do right by this city and you blew it.
You seem to cut the current mayor slack regarding "it was worse than he knew" and "being able to change his mind regarding his campaign promises after he knew more details, etc." Don't you think all of the BOA make decisions based upon information they receive? If there will be no tax increase to fund the GF, I welcome the county and their services! I am tired of trying to "pay as you go" - it's not working out too well. But then again in the previous years the BOA tried to inform the public....
8:31 AM Inform the public of what? How they managed to screw things up?
8:31. Please do not limit the idea of contracting police services to just the county. ANY municipality can contract with Crestwood to provide police service. Kirkwood, Sunset Hills or even Webster are close enough, have the ability and resources to provide execellent coverage; all at a significant savings to the city. Just think about the options!
Check out what U-City is considering to balance their budget. Merging the fire department with citys like Clayton and Richmond Heights. WAKE UP CRESTWOOD
I am awake. I woke up this morning. Although I'm a bit tired, so I may take a nap!
I am at a loss as to why anyone in Crestwood thinks we should "consolidate" our police, fire and EMT crews with any other City!
It's working just fine now, we can, and do afford them now, and the are OUR first line of protection and defence.
If your un-happy with your level of protection, vote with you feet! In fact show us the way and try north county for a change, I am sure they will love to see you.
Until then, please give up the whining about "getting someone else," because it isn't going to happen.
Tom Ford
10:23 Mar. 25 U City is considering "merging", you say?
Well then if U City wants to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge, Jump off with them!!!!!!!
Crestwood is not an island. The city will do what it has to do when the time comes. Let's hope it means remain solvent and retain all our services. Yes, other cities facing financial woes consider merging services. This, too may eventually need investigating. But to hover over this blog fearmongering and prematurly is hateful. However, someone on this blog is trying to spread fear and dissatisfaction. Of course, we know who it is and consider the source. How sad that someone thinks so little of the city as to constantly stir up and make up rumors and untruths. Is there not some better use of this bloggers time? Poor thing.
9:57 You are right about that. But the only way to get rid of those who would sabatage this blog and use it to intimidate others is to ignore their remarks.
Someone is trying very hard to lie and create dissention. The lying part is what is the worst. But we need to ignore them like a child seeking attention.
Sooner or later, they will go away.
Let's hope sooner.
You are right. But one has to wonder why anyone would sink to this level.
1:44 Lots of unealthy skeletons in their closets. Lots of issues unresolved and the desire to pull people down and make them look as bad as they are. Misery loves company. I just feel sorry for those who read the lies and believe them and those that are most vulnerable.
In the "blogosphere" these people who attempt to cause fear and disruption are called "trolls."
Like bad weather to a sailor, they will always be with us, but we need not pay attention to them!
In my very humble opinion, I think they were abused children who are insecure, and who wish to use us as a "blanket" to hide from reality.
Illegitimus Non-carborundum!
Tom Ford
I guess I am slowing down with age, but where in the posts are the "cause fear and disruption" as stated by Mr. Ford?
8:07 If we have to explain it, you have not been reading all the posts on the blog. And if we have to explain the fear and disruption, it would be too long and lengthy of an explanation put on the blog.
I just came across this quote from Winston Churchill that Say's it all!
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
Winston Churchill
Tom Ford
It's official! Mall is sold!!!
Yea! Now Roy can get out his drafting paper and show the developer what to build.
11:42 Sure! Much like Don Greer would have done in building his 14 Million Dollar Police Station.
"Robinson has said that he has told prospective developers that the mall "will" be redeveloped in phases to allow the city to continue collecting revenue from existing stores." ?????
Wait just a minute! Here we go again. The person at 9:22 am said the Mall has been sold? Why isn't it in the paper? Checked mine today and not a word about The Mall.
So here we go again with blabber mouths who want to lie and create disruption on the blog.
I am from Missouri Show Me!!!!!
You want to continue to blame the mayor for the Mall not being sold. Well I heard on the news last night that Centene just backed out of their deal with the City of St. Louis with their development. I guess it's all Slay's fault when everybody knows that the economy is in bad shape right now. But if you must, just continue blaming the mayor for not being able to sell The Mall.
We are governed by a mayor and 8 aldermen not just one mayor.
Developing a parking lot is difficult right now much less The Mall.
You want to blame one person because that's what you do best; when in fact, all you have to do is listen to the news or talk to real estate developers or those in commercial development to understand the state of the economy right now.
Smart developers are rich because they don't run around making purchases that are not going to make them richer. But you would rather play the "blame game" and put the whole issue on the back of the mayor and you think citizens are dumb enough to eat your tripe.
You give one person too much credit for having that much power. Use your head! We are governed by a mayor and 8 people. You can't tell me that this board of aldermen can't deal with one mayor or that they have no input. If so, we better elect some new aldermen. So stop the insanity.
It is in the paper. Go to the Call's web site at callnewspapers.com. Burke Wasson broke the story this week online.
Oh....well I feel preety stupid now. It's Roy's fault I feel stupid.
What so many fail to mention is that there were city officials who enabled Don Greer to run roughshod over our city and put into play his own set of rules, codes of conduct and then shred all the paperwork that would implicate him. He left behind a trail of doubt and debt. His cheerleaders did not have time to be city leaders, they just turned it all over to him and we almost ended up with a remodeled piece of real estate which the bank would have held and which would have set us back 20 years. We also had an emmense legal debt, all conveniently undocumented, a mayor who conveniently resigned, and more harrassment suits than you can shake a stick at. Too many people know all these facts to have it relevant for the mutants on this site to continue to defend this man and his coharts. But they cannot contain themselves. But the gravy train stopped cold and they are in despair. In the meantime the city starts anew and these Greersters are doing nothing more than defending a very bad situation. They know it, we know it and we consider the source. The new BOA is trying to work on tomorrow while faced with yesterday. The facts are deplorable. There is a handful of "unhappies" over our present leaders: anger, jealousy, loss of power, prestige, etc. but too much history and truth makes these hatemongers look ridiculous. We know the identities,of course we do, and realize they would rather defend the indenfensible than help plan tomorrow. But for some, taking this unhealthy stance is a drug. In the meantime, they have not put a dent in our city's desire to move ahead with hope for a solid recovery from the ravages of a very bad few years of mismanagement, lack of integrity and moral compass, and deplorable conditions for employees who had to toe the line or get fired. It remains hard to believe that officials and their coharts, from this unseemly political past insist on turning into "redcoats." Yes, they are easy to identify. Just as if the city, their city too, and those of us who genuinely care should turn the other cheek at every piece of nonsense they dish out. Sorry, we are not buying it and it is truly time to get over the fact that Roy is Mayor at this time.
2:48 PM, March 28, 2008
2;48 pm BLOGGER: Very well said indeed! It has to be very convenient to be able to "overlook" the truth when it's not on your side (look at Hillary,) but reality states otherwise.
We have the old faction who long for the day's when they were in power, and we have the citizens who look forward to the day's when were out of the mess they left us.
I know which side I am on. Were on the right track now, and we will never go back to the shady deals of the past under our current leadership, thank the Lord!
Tom Ford
2:48 You have said it better than anyone ever could. The elected officials that were there to protect and serve us during the Greer Years, before he was annointed with two jobs and/or after, should own up to the fact that they allowed things to occur that were against their beliefs and morals if nothing else.
And Shame on you Dr. LaBore! The holy man you are, who preaches about morals every day. You had the opportunity to put an end to this disception and turned the other way and did nothing. Too afraid to stand up for what you believe because you chose to believe the wrongdoers cause it was easier!
Corruption is corruption whether it be immoral or unethical. And one usually follows the other. Immorality will never due even if it seems OK in this century.
The antics and womanizing Greer did was evident and open from the beginning of his tenure as police chief, and he was happy to let others see it going on. He got a real "kick" out of it cause he knew he could get away with it. That gave him a real "high" and he flayed it under everybody's noses way before Madrid.
It was a source of satisfaction to him that he did what others in our city would have been written up for. Why? Cause he befriended the man in charge, Kent, and he counted on his friendship and loyalty as an OK to do whatever he wanted. Then he rewarded Kent by stepping up to his job. What a fella!
That should have been stopped in its tracks years ago. The mayor and board should have demanded that it be stopped. Instead, it had to be stopped by Roy. The only one who said enough is enough.
You can say as you wish regarding Roy. You can try to diminish him in any way you can. It will never rescinate in my ears! He was the only person who knew exactly where the corruption and mayhem was in this city and he scooped it out like a cancer. A plan? He had a plan, only his naysayers who loved Don Greer will never see it that way.
Shame on you.
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