Alderman Foote has proposed a tax increase to the BOA for the August ballot.
This weeks edition of the "paper" has the story on page one, above the fold no less. There are shortfalls in the first quarter from tax revenues to the three major funds of $two million and change, however that does not denote the doom and gloom some would have you believe!
Just as in a business one must consider both the quarter to quarter trends as well as the total in v the total out, or as some may explain the "bucket method." What's that? Well you put the cash in one bucket and the bills in the other one, and they had best balance out. Over simplified? For sure, but there is much more to the City budget than meets the eye.
I am not a financial expert by a long shot, but we do have three very good ones up there (Foote, Miguel, Nieder,) who I am sure would be more that happy to show you where we are today, and why the "sky is not falling!"
Before you believe any of the "economists" who post doom and gloom on this, or any other forum, may I suggest you call them for an appointment, and let them show you.
Tom Ford
NO. 495
Just as in a business one must consider both the quarter to quarter trends as well as the total in v the total out, or as some may explain the "bucket method." What's that? Well you put the cash in one bucket and the bills in the other one, and they had best balance out. Over simplified? For sure, but there is much more to the City budget than meets the eye.
I am not a financial expert by a long shot, but we do have three very good ones up there (Foote, Miguel, Nieder,) who I am sure would be more that happy to show you where we are today, and why the "sky is not falling!"
Before you believe any of the "economists" who post doom and gloom on this, or any other forum, may I suggest you call them for an appointment, and let them show you.
Tom Ford
NO. 495
posted by Crestwood Independent at 16:24
141 Comments:
Show me what?
The error of your ways!
Tom Ford
Good work Alderman Foote! It's about time somebody on the board wakes up and smells the coffee. How in the world did anybody think for one minute Crestwood could continue to exist on a tax rate that is over 20 years old.
If you received the same wages as you did over 20 years and tried to survive in 2008 could you do it without going bankrupt?
How much did you pay for coffee 20 years ago; how much did you pay for home repairs and improvements to your homes 20 years ago? What did you pay a plumber 20 years ago when your bathroom flooded? What did you pay for a new car 20 years ago compared to what you have to pay now?
It never was Crestwood's tax that created a hardship on anybody in the first place; it's every other entity that's been doing it to us for years, on the State and Federal level.
I rest my case. Bravo Alderman Foote.
I am on a fix income and you mean the City is going to through out another tax at me. I am sorry, if I have to give up things because gas is almost 4.00 a gallon the City should also have to give up some items. Let the City workers take a pay decrease but leave me alone.
It isn't Crestwood that is taxing you to death. Crestwood tax has been the lowest of all the cities and you have been reaping all the good services for years because of it.
No offense, but I hope that down the line you don't need to call
911 and need our paramedics to keep you alive because they might not be around. And some day you might have to rely on the County Police when someone breaks into your home. Hope you stay well and happy.
Citizens were told that more money was needed in the past. That did not happen and services did not get cut so I don't see a need for additional income now. Finances seem to be the same as in the past couple of years. Why all the sudden do we need more income to provide services?
The Mayor said last year more cuts could be made before a tax increase was needed. I support our Mayor and urge you to do the same. Ask him to start making the cuts now so we don't need an other increase.
One quick way to save is to suspend any department promotions to replace those that have left. At least the city would not have to pay the higher individual salaries.
In reference to the fix income. We would be a lot better having the St. Louis County Police protect our city Our cops are way overpaid compared to the professionals at St. Louis County. I also believe that we can do better then having a private ambulance service for providing us with emergency health care. I feel our service could be a lot better for half the cost.
3:53 PM blogger: If you really believe that statement perhaps you should start looking a what residents of the County pay.
Fire districts cost between .67 cents to $1.19 assessed value per hundred. (County doesnt have a fire department.)
The "WELL TRAINED" County police (who train at the exact same facility as Crestwood for the same amount of hours) will cost you an extra few bucks for their services as well. (Extra property taxes fund these guys.)
Ambulance service, well let's just say I wouldn't get sick if I were you, and leave it at that!
You have no idea how well off you are my friend! However if you feel your right, move to the County, and we shall see how long it takes for you to move back!
The grass is always greener, right? Except in this case it is definitely not on the County side of the fence!
Tom Ford
3:53 PM You had better do your homework if you think Crestwood cops are paid more than the County. What did you do? Have a nightmare and thought it was real?
Please remember that while some taxes are relatively low, Crestwood residents enjoy one of the highest sales tax rates in the county. Some of the increases you had no opportunity to vote on? TDD, CID.
And every time your utility bills rise, Crestwood gets an automatic increase in taxes. And now our friends at the Municipal league made sure that we can forever pay an additional tax on cell phones.
I perfectly understand you get what you pay for. It just really irritates me when City leaders make light of these additional costs of living in Crestwood. These are significant expenses.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Approved the purchase of a new 2.5-ton truck with a snowplow and salt spreader as well as other snow removal equipment at a below-budget cost of $193,465
New Ford Explorer for Public Works director.
10 New Police Cars
Window Tint Meters for Police Department.
Some of these expense just don't strike me as really trying to save some tax money.
Why don't you try finding out how long we have used the items you are complaining about?
Why don't you try finding out how long the PW Director had to wait for an Explorer. What was he driving before?
Just because Crestwood is in a financial bind right now, doesn't mean things stop breaking down. You would be one of the first one's to complain if the PW Director had no way of getting to your home to check on a problem or residents were having some type of serious issue of great urgency in the city.
Why don't you get all the facts before you start getting upset.
Do you honestly think that after what we have been through in the past several years, the Ways and Means Committee would just go ahead with spending money for things not needed?
You and others sit in your nice little homes, and have police and fire service, your streets and sidewalks are supervised, and when the snow flies you get good snow removal; but you think the vehicles that are used to keep you nice and comfortable in your homes don't need to be replaced? Get a life? You would be complaining to high heaven, if your services were some day not there anymore. Yet, you want something for nothing, just like all the other air heads that can't see why we need a tax increase.
To 10:42 April 30
To say that the cost of living 20 years ago was much lower than it is today and use this premise to support an argument for a tax increase is illogical. While expenses have risen over the past twenty years, so have incomes.
Martha Duchild
10:30 AM, May 02, 2008
Where have you been??? I believe that this has been communicated to the public in the past. There have been no increases in revenue and no services cut. Why should the citizens believe the current administration now? No one at city hall has a grip on the finances to determine how much Crestwood would actually need to maintain services now and in the near future.
Until there is someone at city hall that can communicate the finances of the city in a professional manner, I will not vote for any tax increases.
I totally agree about not voting for a tax increase. This city is WAY out control. All of us have to sacrifice with the huge cost of living, so should the employees of our great city of Crestwood.
10:30 AM, May 02, 2008
The Explorer had a "rough" ride and needed to be replaced. OK... What about all the police cars - marked and UNmarked that sit on the lot? Could he not have used one of the unmarked units?
I've had to make cuts in this economy. What about the city?
And by the way, I don't want something for nothing. I pay sky high sales taxes in Crestwood and I pay its high utility taxes too.
If they want us to pass a tax increase they had better do a better job than they have so far in explaining how much more they need, how much money they have on hand, and what assets could they sell to reduce the tax bite.
I say not to any additional taxes. If my family has to cut back so do the city and there employees.
No need to cut salaries, just get rid of some of the dead wood in the PD and FD that have been 'retired on the job' for years.
Tax increase, or no tax increase? That is the question.
I think we should OK the placing of the tax increase on the ballot in August for a simple up or down vote.
However I, like many of you want to see the REAL numbers, and what the total amount of said increase will be over how long.
If this is to happen it must be nailed to certain things, and not a "general fund" sort of thing, and I want to see a "sunset provision" installed as well.
Asking the employees to take a pay cut is the worst thing we could do for morale, and the well being of their families.
I get paid by what I sell, so it's up to me to get out there and hustle. They are paid on an hourly basis, and as such have no way to improve their weekly pay check other than to work more hours.
In case you haven't been following the mess over at the Mehlville fire protection district, you should be. This is what happens when you adjust pay scales, and create havoc in a department. There are two blogs you can read (south county truth spot, and the south county news) to get the picture on what's happening there, so I will not comment.
Please remember that our City employees do a very fine job of taking care of us, and we must reciprocate by taking care of them as well.
Tom Ford
Who are you fooling the Mehlville Fire Department is in much better shape then the City of Crestwood, including funding and employee. What does a police officer make in Crestwood and what does a fireman make in Mehlville. I bet with out question that the fireman makes more then the cop.
4:21 PM blogger: did you read the blogs first? No, you didn't did you.
Notice I have no comment's other than to ask you to read them and form your own opinion, not what they, or I say.
Try it, you'll like it!
Tom Ford
11:08 am May 2nd. Martha - incomes have gone up but that has nothing to do with the costs of keeping up a city. Our sales tax IS the city's income and it's at an all time low.
I am speaking of how much it costs to repair or replace things like streets, for instance compared to 20 years ago. I am talking about the cost of replacing items like roofs, and old equipment that doesn't work anymore, plus higher maintenance costs versus 20 years ago. These all cost more than they did 20 years ago.
If incomes have gone up, all the more reason why people should be able to spend a few more dollars on a tax increase to keep our city solvent. It isn't the same as when you or I have to buy a new car. Our household income will pay for it. But the income of the city isn't going up, it's going down.
I am saying that our property tax rate in Crestwood is very low and the cost of keeping and maintaining a city has gone up and we cannot live on sales tax alone. It has nothing to do with how much household incomes have increased. For example: you can't fix a street with a handful of household income. The cost of materials to replace the street or repair the street is what is important. The price of concrete. Is it the same now as it was 20 years ago? What about the man hours it will take for a street worker to replace it?
Plus maybe some wages have gone up but I can assure you that the employees wages at the city of crestwood have not kept up with the cost of living because Crestwood can't afford it.
Thanks.
"These assumptions are purely that," Robinson said. "Everybody, this five-year plan is not in concrete. There's a lot of figures, and anybody that can play with figures can play with it. What I'm saying is when you follow the budget and you know what you have coming in and when you don't have enough funds coming in, you cut back to make sure the spending is held in check. You eliminate a lot of the assumptions in there that there's going to be a lot of expending down the road and there's pay raises and there's all this stuff. What we've always said is it's budget driven ...
"You hear people talk about we need more tax increase. I'm not in favor. We don't need any tax increase. Nobody's proved to me we've got any problem yet. But, you know, I hear all these things like gloom and doom. And I don't know where the gloom and doom is yet. When we see it, we will know it and we will make adjustments to take care of it. So I'm not there yet."
quotation of Mayor Roy Robinson from Call Newspapers, 7-25-2007,
article titled "Crestwood board seeks strategies for looming financial 'storm'; mayor unconvinced" by Burke Wasson
callnewspapers.com
But that was before the election!
To 5:43 PM May 2
Once again, I respectfully disagree. While sales tax is the major source of revenue for the city, it is not the ONLY source. The fact that the city finds itself in its current financial situation is not the result of a failure to raise taxes over the years. It is the result of expenses which have exceeded income. It is (and always has been) the city administrator's job to develop a five year plan for the capital improvement, replacement and personnel needs for the city.
In discussions regarding the 2008 budget, some of the aldermen asked the former city administrator to develop a "Plan B" budget which incorporated decreased sales tax revenues. Had he done so, the city would have been better prepared to face the current revenue decreases. Both the mayor and the city administrator dismissed what I believed to be a worthwhile suggestion.
Ultimately, it will be the taxpayers' decision to review whether the city has done a competent job with the money it has, and whether it can demonstrate to residents that there is sound financial reasoning to support any proposed tax increase amount.
Martha Duchild
6:15 PM Well it is now May 3, 2008 and things are worse than in 2007
If you want to be angry at the Mayor because he said we didn't need a tax increase in 2007, that's OK with me? Take the copy of your paper and make him eat it for all I care.
I am still saying that we will need a tax increase; I am still saying that it's my opinion and if you want to "set in concrete" what Mayor Robinson said in 2007, then boycott the city and hold him accountable. But sometimes things change and people do it all the time. If you want to "stick it to him" go ahead. As far as I am concerned, he was wrong in making that statement then and if he still feels that way, I still say we will need a tax increase. Obviously Alderman Foote feel the same way.
Why should we stand around picking our nose waiting for the sales tax to turn around to solve our problems?
Put it on the ballot in August and if the people don't want it, so be it. But then when the bell rings and we get taken over by the County, the same people will be moaning about that too.
They will stand around and play the blame game like they always do. But I will sell my house if that happens cause I don't want to be around when my home in no longer worth anything because everything has deteriorated in this city waiting for the County to fix things.
6:43 PM Martha, I agree that it will be the residents who make the decision to place a tax increase on the August ballot. And they will surely base their vote on the information they are given by the city.
It is not going to be an easy decision to make; and the idea may not get very far if it is not agreed upon by the mayor and board.
That too happened a few times years ago.
Then it came time to either float a bond issue for a new community center or not. And everybody thought Mayor Vitalis lost his mind by wanting one. Sure, we were rich with sales tax, and all I heard was "pay as we go" which was the worst thing we could have done. But all our elected officials were too busy "flexing" their proud muscles that we had all this revenue.
And I also know that anytime this tax increase was brought up in the past, it was voted down before it ever hit the ground, while other communities did just the opposite.
The city coffers have always depended on sales tax for almost everything and thought it would never dry up but it has. And this new lavish community center was also going to generate money so "goody goody". Well now, it isn't new any more and it takes money and maintenance to keep it going while the well is dry.
Yes, there are also other revenues that keep us going, but basically this city has always been a point of sale city.
There is only so much fat you can cut from a budget Martha, before you start cutting into the meat.
I am not so stupid as to think we cannot cut costs; but I am not so stupid as to feel we can wait too long until it is too late to ask for assistance from residents by a tax increase.
This tax increase needs to be considered in my opinion, whereas many just automatically say it is out of the question. Well, no it isn't or it shouldn't be.
Martha, we can talk this whole thing to death if we want to. I am just giving my opinion, that's all.
Household incomes may have gone up over 20 years but the money coming into City Hall has gone down. It may go up again after the Presidential election, and then again it may not.
That's all I have to say. Thanks
I think you totally missed the point about the listing of the expenses.
If you were running a business and times were tough you certainly would still have to make purchases to keep your business going. I just think the purchases were not well thought out.
The public works director asked for a car, not an SUV. Save us some gas.
Why not 5 police cars this year and 5 next year? These things don't sip gas.
Window tint meters :) no comment
New truck- Well Shrewsbury purchased a used one to save money. I believe Crestwood purchased a used fire truck a while back?
Purchasing a new Police communications system without getting any bids?
Did the City Administrator get $91K 20 years ago?
If anyone has revenue numbers broken down by source 5 years until today that would be great.
After looking at some of the comments I really wonder why the city does not have consideration of the people on fixed incomes and cut back like all of has. I don't get increases every year and I have to provide for my own insurance. I think its about time that the city and its employees also cut back so we all can have a equal playing field.
I read the one comment on the morale of the employees if they do not get raises. That is a very poor excused for anyone to come up with. What about the tax payers thay also have to cut back on there own spending so lets all cut back and the hell with the so called morale for the cry baby employees of Crestwood.
Martha Duchild
6:43 PM, May 02, 2008
I agree with your post. I also think that it was the responsibility of the BOA to back up the Charter. They had asked for a revised 2008 budget from staff and did not receive it. It should have been provided without question. From what I have been told, the mayor played a large part in that decision.
I will need more information regarding the finances of the city and how much is needed to maintain services at or above the current level before I will vote for a tax increase. I don't believe that Mr. Gross can provide the information needed, all by himself. Who else is up there to provide the information? Certainly not the Ways and Means committee.....
the 2008 budget hasn't even been posted on the city's web site.
10:22 PM blogger said: "I read the one comment on the morale of the employees if they do not get raises. That is a very poor excused for anyone to come up with. What about the tax payers they also have to cut back on there own spending so lets all cut back and the hell with the so called morale for the cry baby employees of Crestwood."
Perhaps you would be so kind as to tell your boss you feel the same way about your status at work! Why you don't want or need anymore money do you?
I am very sorry to tell you that in my mind your comments seem to be right out of the socialist play book at worst, at best you obviously have no idea what it takes to run a custard stand much less a City!
I could and would go on, but what for? People with your line of thinking will never get it anyway!
Blog on however, we are always glad to hear your remarks visa vi the shabby way your treated here in Crestwood.
Tom Ford
It's a free country (in most places) if Crestwood cant afford to pay the kind of money their workers want, they are free to move on to a another city. The concept that we have to take a reduction in our wages by a tax increase to keep them here as they are due it is socialism.
How about this idea, I'll support the 25 cents increase if all the employees of Crestwood take a 1% reduction in pay? Let every body feel the pain.
8:59 You are a joke. I agree with Tom. We have good people right now that need to support families and have bills to pay. We are loosing two of our finest from the police department today. We have already lost two not so long ago.
The percentage of the raises for employees has already been cut back compared to what it used to be.
Why don't we just ask employees to work for nothing?
Also, to clarify another point, the fire department purchased a fire truck but it was a "used" fire truck not a new one. It was purchased several years ago.
Everybody wants excellent service for Crestwood; but everybody doesn't want to have to pay more to get it. How idiotic is that?
In reference to the fix income. We would be a lot better having the St. Louis County Police protect our city Our cops are way overpaid compared to the professionals at St. Louis County. I also believe that we can do better then having a private ambulance service for providing us with emergency health care. I feel our service could be a lot better for half the cost.
"Professionals at St. Louis County" What joke. St. Louis County has huge problems. Officers are leaving in droves. You already have a "private ambulance service" its Abott Ambulance. Do a little research before you post!
Please remember that while some taxes are relatively low, Crestwood residents enjoy one of the highest sales tax rates in the county. Some of the increases you had no opportunity to vote on? TDD, CID.
Our overall sales tax rate is only 1/4% higher than Sunset Hills, no higher than Webster or Kirkwood. When factoring in fire/ems all of these cities have way higher tax burdens. As for the TDD & CDD.. THEN DON'T SHOP at Sam's, Kohl's Sop'n Save, Ace Hardware. Its not your god given right to have shopping within 1/2 a block of your house and expect to pay nothing for the PRIVLAGE!
Crestwood's sales tax rate is still one of the highest in St. Louis County. Check their website.
While you are there, check utility tax rates and you'll find Crestwood, while not the highest, is up there.
"As for the TDD & CDD.. THEN DON'T SHOP at Sam's, Kohl's Sop'n Save, Ace Hardware."
Ok, I won't!
It really sounds like a lot of our so called bloggers are city employees. These individual do not and have never thought of the tax payers and citizens that are footing the bill. Lets come into the real world boys and girls.
11:34 am Finally someone who see's things clearly. I agree with you about people who don't want to "pay for the privilege".
I also would like to see any of the other communities that pay a much higher property tax, which have been mentioned on this blog, run a city on what our property tax rate has been. They couldn't do it and they had higher property tax rates for many years while I was low. Now our sales tax is dwindling, and some don't want reach into their pockets to help it along. Wow! That's what I call true support.
12:29 - hello, I did check my Electric bill - Crestwood's tax was $2.40. Really high huh?
1:10 - You stated "blog comments on this blog come from city employees"??? Why because some think employees should be treated decently? I think you are one of those people who feel that the City should give you every service on the book for nothing.
You are just what Crestwood doesn't need. I am not a city employee, but I do think with your brain dead concept, you deserve to live in the County and just be a number on a sheet of paper. It would suite your ridiculous attitude. Just don't be surprised if you live in the County, that you have to wait in a big line to get anything done. Also, see exactly what your taxes will end of being if we become part of the County. It would serve you and people like you right. They won't be 37 cents, I can tell you that!
11:34 am Finally someone who see's things clearly. I agree with you about people who don't want to "pay for the privilege".
I also would like to see any of the other communities that pay a much higher property tax, mentioned on this blog, run a city on what our property tax rate has been. They couldn't do it and they had higher property tax rates for many years while I was low. Now our sales tax is dwindling, and some don't want reach into their pockets to help it along. Wow! That's what I call true support.
12:29 - hello, I did check my Electric bill - Crestwood's tax was $2.40. Really high huh?
1:10 - You stated "blog comments on this blog come from city employees"??? Why because some think employees should be treated decently? I think you are one of those people who feel that the City should give you every service on the book for nothing.
You are just what Crestwood doesn't need. I am not a city employee, but I do think with your brain dead concept, you deserve to live in the County and just be a number on a sheet of paper. It would suit your ridiculous attitude. Just don't be surprised if you live in the County, that you have to wait in a big line to get anything done. Also, see exactly what your taxes will end of being if we become part of the County. It would serve you and people like you right. Taxes won't be 37 cents/$100 assessed valuation, I can tell you that!
12:34 PM blogger: Why not? The only thing I won't use that was funded by a TDD is the pool. Oh wait, that's a private pool, never mind.
1:10 PM blogger: I guess you missed the fact that some (not all,) but some of our faithful employees live in Crestwood!
Are you trying to tell us that because they are City employees they have no taxes wherever they may reside?
Also, this blog is for EVERYONE (not just the ?) to toss in their two cent's, and I value their input, as they are the ones who know what they need, and when they need it.
Please don't fall into that old democrat trap of "class warfare" here, this is not Ladue, (or Wildwood, and they get money from us!) remember?
Tom Ford
What about your gas or electric bills during the cold of winter or the heat of summer? How much was your taxes then?
I have gas heat and my Laclede Gas bill in January, 2008 was $196.29. It was paid on January 18, 2008. The Crestwood Tax was 11.78.
When I get a chance, I will look up my electric bill for last Summer and I will tell you what Crestwood's tax is.
Fact: the average income for a Crestwood Firefighter and Police officer is greater than the average income of a Crestwood household.
Think about who is paying their salary. Think about how many times in a year you personally need their services. Think about how many weeks of vacation the average Crestwood Firefigher and Police Officer gets each year. Think about their retirement that you are paying for.
Do you really think that a 1% reduction in pay would cause the "brightest and best to leave"?
The above is a whole lot of truth, its about time someone sees the facts. GREAT JOB BLOGER 7:40 am
I can't agree with the firemen but I will agree 100% about the cops.
7:40 AM blogger: Say, while your doing all that thinking, think about the "actual" work time you put in, and the "vacation, and sick days" you are allowed each year.
Think about your health care package, how many times do you actually use that? Well, why not give up, say 1/3 of your health care, and say, 5 vacation days, and 3 sick days, should be no problem, right?
As far a how many times you need them, well there are hundreds of military flights every day, most all of them have parachutes on the planes. Said parachute is almost never used, but when it is needed,well there is no substitute!
And finally, yes I do believe we would loose good people for the simple fact that we haven't given them a raise worth while for some time now, and don't trumpet 1.5%, that's nothing and you know it.
You have an option here, slap a for sale sign in the yard (who knows you might get lucky,) and move out to the Utopian county, or Wildwood (heck they get our money anyway.)
Tom Ford
So according to Tom either raise taxes or move. Nice, real open minded of you.
Let me get this right, I have to have less money in my pocket so others (the employees of Crestwood) can have more? It's alright for me to have a reduction in my income with higher taxes, but I cant ask the people who my taxes provide for their wages and benefits, to reduce their bite on my wallet by a simple 1%?
I would contend that the brightest and best left a few years ago and that most of the people we have now couldn't pass a required pre-employment physical.
Sorry if this sounds rude and uncaring but the facts are the facts, most of our Police and Firefighters will not leave because of their inability to pass a physical. Is it there fore good idea to increase their wages, in the private sector the answer would be no. I think if they will not take a reduction of 1% in their wages, then they cant be serious about serving the citizens of Crestwood so unselfishly, it's all about the $$$. Sorry Char Braun, but it's time for you and ALderman Foote to explain why the income of the Firefighter in Crestwood is over $75,000 and yet they want more.
Sounds like the new elite in Crestwood are the employees.
5:07 PM blogger: Obviously you have no knowledge of POST, or Fire standards. Our people with one or two exceptions will pass the test with flying colors!
You say I am "open minded," well to an extent, yes, but not so on this subject. By the way did you forget to point out the arrogance that would allow someone to make such ridiculous statements as you have just made?
You either have a big gun and a fire hose on hand along with medical supplies, and you really believe you don't need anyone, or your one of the most insensitive, uncaring, arrogant people I have ever had the displeasure of reading!
Tom Ford
What I believe is the firefighters and police officers of Crestwood are paid better now than is the avg. person in Crestwood. By a lot. I believe that no one forced them to chose the job path they have chosen. I believe they can leave any time they want to regardless of what we pay or don't pay them. And they do, every year.
I believe that every time there is a property tax increase this is the kind of tactics that are used to scare the voters into taking a pay cut by increasing their taxes. It is ridiculous to trot out the same arguments every time.
If what I say about the phyiscal condition of our employees, then lets not pass the tax increase nor their wages and se how many leave.
6:29 PM blogger: Genius, sheer genius!
Tom Ford
6:29 PM "Every time there is a property tax increase, scare tactics are used" you say? Pay attention, our property tax is so low, a scare tactic never had to be used. Now, however, we are not dealing with a tactic, we are dealing with the truth. Can't you tell the difference? Crestwood never has gone after property tax increases like other communities have. Where you get off saying that is beyond me.
That's the point. The City of Crestwood never had to use any tactics because we never needed a property tax as badly as we do now. You call being broke a scare tactic; I call it the truth! What a bottomless pit you are!!!!
If you feel you can do better somewhere else, good riddens! You are one of those who shoot off their mouth on this blog, but would never go up to city hall at a town hall meeting or board of aldermen meeting, stand up in front of everyone and make that same comment.
You are another one who wants something for nothing. Always looking for a deal; well there are no more deals or free rides.
6:29 What a piece of work you are. You don't want to reach into your pocket to help the city but you have no problem having city employees reach into their's. What kind of person are you? Most of our employees don't even live here but they should give their money when you won't give your's and you live here?
You are one of those who would steal the shirt off of somebody else's back because you have more of a right to be warm than they do.
Hope you don't ever have to call 911; hope you don't ever need a police officer or a paramedic to save your pitiful life. You would be surprised how, if that happened, you would learn a valuable lesson. I guess you think that you are untouchable and a life and death issue couldn't happen to you huh?
There are two kinds of heels and you don't bounce.
PS: Not a city employee.
"At the same time, Miguel said he was surprised by the closing of Dillard's and wants to make sure that the city is financially prepared if another such closure occurs.
"I personally was caught off balance by Dillard's' closing," Miguel said. "And I was lulled into feeling that we would see a continuation of the decline that we have been seeing over the years. But we, in effect, fell off a cliff."
"Well, I don't know what cliff you fell off of," Robinson said. "There's been no cliff falling."
"Well, I consider the closing of Dillard's as a major problem," Miguel said.
"That's, as far as I'm concerned, that's just a negative point," Robinson said. "And it's an overstated situation, which is backed by people who want to raise taxes and all things to be able to justify. We're not raising the taxes."
from Call Newspapers, 10-31-2007,
article titled "Crestwood mayor, alderman clash over need for 'Plan B' by Burke Wasson
callnewspapers.com
How much money does the City have in the bank, dont you think they should tell us that before they ask for more money from us?
6:29 said both the employees and the citizens of the City share in the cost of keeping the city running.
6:29 I would like to know if you think other cities should also reduce their employees salaries or is it just in Crestwood? According to your theory, we should pass a law that if Crestwood has to reduce salaries, all other cities have to do it too because cities all over the country are suffering right now unless you don't read the news.
6:29 I would like to know if you think other cities should also reduce their employees salaries or is it just in Crestwood? According to your theory, we should pass a law that if Crestwood has to reduce salaries, all other cities have to do it too because cities all over the country are suffering right now unless you don't read the news.
Tom at 5:47. There you go showing off your 'not a real cop' mouth again. POST has nothing to do with physical training standards!
9:18, the poster you question said nothing about a law being passed what they said was if times are so bad, why shouldn't both the tax payer and the employee share in the pain?
Interesting, so far the only reason to support the tax increase given is to increase the wages of the workers of Crestwood...Why? Isn't $70,000 plus a year not including bennies enough already?
Come on you all no the answer and that is contract out the services. It will be better for all of us and we will finally have the professional services that we all deserve. Police, fire and ambulance plus our 911 will be much better to serve all of us. I far one am not proud of what we get for emergency servies and I hope all of you feel the same:
10:43 AM blogger: You do know what POST stands for, correct? In case you don't, it's " police officer standards, and training.
Unless I miss my guess, that does include physical fitness as well.
The officers I know are ALL into personal fitness, and I believe the Chief requires it from all the younger officers!
Nice try, Crestwood hater, but once again you loose!
Tom Ford
4:32 PM blogger: I am sure we all DO NOT feel the same! Tell you what though, why not send a letter to the City opting out of our emergency services program!
You could tell them you, and you alone want County to be your service. Then you can sit back and watch your taxes rise to cover the service, and you can wait up to 30 minutes for a response.
Take solice , if you have a heart attack, we will all show up at your funeral, so either way you win, neat huh?
Tom Ford
so the only reason for the tax increase is to give pay raises to the Police and Firemen?
5:43 PM blogger: Nope, I doubt they will see a dime of the money!
Just like you, the City has expenses, for fuel, payments on Good's, ETC. And just like you they need to have the funds to pay them.
But you knew that anyway, so I guess your post was for "entertainment purposes only (yours?)
Tom Ford
Hey 5:34 p.m. there are more employee's than police/fire.
Speaking of police lets take the unwritten role off the table of trying not to give residence tickets. 5:34P.m. Hey never mind your one of those residence who talks the officer in to giving you a ticket because of your attitude.
If I was retired, I certainly would move out of St. Louis County. The surrounding counties still pay a disproportionately low amount of taxes.
Look long term. If your taxes continue to double every ten years how will you pay your taxes? A Tax Mortgage?
TDD & CID is a Tax increase which you :
A) Do not get to vote on.
B) Have no say on how the money is spent.
"Look long term. If your taxes continue to double every ten years how will you pay your taxes? A Tax Mortgage?
9:46 PM, May 06, 2008"
Exellent point!
Attention all posters. If you want to understand what the true financial picture of Crestwood is I would contact Alderman Foote,Miguel or Nieder. These gentlemen have been pushing behind the scenes and understand in detail the finiancial state of this city far better than the mayor. Attend the workshop scheduled for Thursday May 8th starting at 7pm at City Hall and you will learn more.
Efficiences can be found in the way services are provided and still need to be pursued.
Ask the alderman for information. They will be glad to share it.
For anyone out there that thinks we should contract out services....why did you not speak up at the town hall meetings? If this is the way you feel, then grow a set and show up at a BOA meeting and make yourself heard. Go picket in front of city hall. I dare you. Are you even a city resident?
Dare you? Is that a threat from a City employee?
Crestwood's sales tax rate is still one of the highest in St. Louis County. Check their website.
While you are there, check utility tax rates and you'll find Crestwood, while not the highest, is up there.
How about Property Tax Rates??????? I'm sure you don't want to include those? If you do, make sure you include fire/ems.
Yes, while I was on the county's website, I found that several municipalities don't charge property taxes. So much for Crestwood being such a bargain.
9:26...not a city employee. Just a concerned resident who has had enough of people putting down hard working employees.
11:14 High utility tax? How much did you pay on your gas and electric bills last month or this month. Inquiring minds want to know. Please tell me cause right now, I will compare mine with yours, and we shall see who the liar is!!!!!
2:31 I am not a city employee either but also take offense at putting down city employees. What is their point in saying things about the employees? Employees who work for Crestwood, did what we most people do when they want a job. They saw an ad for city employment; got interviewed and were hired. Obviously they did that because they needed work and felt it would be work that they would enjoy doing.
So because of this, I really don't get making them a whipping post just because circumstances in Crestwood have changed, and now we are low on finances. What should they have done when applying for a job with the city, looked into a crystal ball first to see that down the road there would be problems.
Why hammer at the employees; they didn't contribute to the financial instability of Crestwood. Why should they be sectioned out and pay the price for people who were in charge of finances in the first place. It's not them that wiped the city clean!
I really feel that whoever this person is that feels such a vengeance against employees has to be trying to purposely get us upset by the remarks. This person has to be "stirring up the pot" because otherwise it makes no sense at all.
I cannot imagine anyone but a dunce making those comments.
11:19 Pray tell, what municipalities don't have property tax Pray tell, are they bedroom communities or point of sale cities and where do they get their revenues? Yeah, please tell me what you saw on the website and who these municipalities are. Won't believe it until you answer the above questions.
I saw that posting too. From what I can determine in St. Louis County's rate book, the following have no property tax levy:
BALLWIN, BELLA VILLA, CHAMP, DES PERES, FENTON, FLORISSANT, GREEN PARK, MARYLAND HEIGHTS, MOLINE ACRES, NORWOOD COURT, TOWN & COUNTRY, WILBUR PARK, WILDWOOD
Wildwood, for example, gets a share from the pool in St. Louis County. I think Des Peres runs off of sales taxes. I think Ballwin recently tried to pass a property tax hike and it failed.
Crestwood's sales tax rates and utility tax rates are on the higher side from what I saw.
4:25 My Gas Bill was almost $200 in January and I paid a Crestwood Tax of 11.00. Is that high to you?
Whether it was high to me or not, I was merely reporting what I saw in St. Louis County's rate book. Check it out yourself.
3:48 PM, May 07, 2008-
pray tell, pray tell, pray tell!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just read in the paper that the Mayor is going for a .25 tax increase. You will get a fight on this, I will make my rounds to everyone that I know to get this failed. We have already started and most of the people that I have spoke with feels the same.
5:25 PM blogger: "I will make my rounds to everyone that I know to get this failed. We have already started and most of the people that I have spoke with feels the same.
Wow, all six of them?
Tom Ford
They will tell you anything to get you off of there door step. Lets see what the voters really plan on doing. Most likely if it passes you will see a lot of house going up for sale and the people moving where real cities car about then.
So I guess those townhall meetings were merely sales' pitches to get us to vote on a tax increase?
This week's CALL quotes our Mayor claiming the City has over $3,500,000 in cash right now. Also said after the streets and sewers were fixed the rest of the increase form the tax increase will go to the employees.
Yes, while I was on the county's website, I found that several municipalities don't charge property taxes. So much for Crestwood being such a bargain.
PLEASE LIST THEM! I bet they all are awash in sales tax! Nevermind, I will do it... Fenton, Des Peres, Frontenac, etc.
Mike I bet the six people you talk to was your wife and 5 other bloggers are all of your bloggers. HA HA HA
10:06 PM, May 07, 2008
If you would have read the previous posts, you would have seen they were listed at 4:25 PM, but for your reading pleasure, I'll be happy to relist them, especially for you;)
BALLWIN, BELLA VILLA, CHAMP, DES PERES, FENTON, FLORISSANT, GREEN PARK, MARYLAND HEIGHTS, MOLINE ACRES, NORWOOD COURT, TOWN & COUNTRY, WILBUR PARK, WILDWOOD
I have read this entire blog. Looks like there is a massive difference of opinions. Amazingly, news articles over the last year have spelled out all sorts of balances, mostly improving, none of which are apparently valid. Most explained by a very strange methodology by a CA now in Glendale or that other one who was a big puff of secret smoke. We have had no continuity and apparently little professionalism and between rumors and obvious malfunctions from a CA with little recognition of municipal needs or fiscal integrity and experience, not to mention the outrageous credibility and secretiveness of the former administration - e.g. plans for a 14.5 million city hall while we were existing on a LOC. Well, you know, it does appear that more facts need to be made crystal clear and Miz Braun, if she is at it again, needs to get her huge ego readjusted. We need concrete proof, facts and we do not need rumors and threats or more cutsy meetings. Scare tactics won't work; this is an insult to city residents who have been led down a primrose path too many times with false information and have turned into skeptics plus city politicians some of whom have not a clue what it takes to run a city. Please remember what we pay to Affton Fire District for the annexed portion of our fire services. Please realize belt tightening is often a necessity, please remember all the folks who have lost really good jobs just in St. Louis alone. We cannot all cry for Argentina. So please lay off the dramatics. When and if residents get something that resembles fiscal accuracy and fiscal expertise, not to mention accountability and quit hearing all the lamenting of our current problems, and lack of caring for employees, etc. and some of us get a raise or job security, then and only then will some of us consider a reasonable tax increase based on fact. Not speculation. It is readily seen that many of our fiscal problems have stemmed from massive misjudgement and confusion and taking eye off ball. Whitecliff is pretty darned costly eh! Have you seen the list of things that have been cut? Did we not give you a tax increse last time? Do you wonder why we have so many questions? Do we want yet another fiasco based on fear? Save our city! Right. But first "get us the facts" get us facts that are SOUND, CERTIFIED and HOLD WATER. Give us the same set of facts TWICE. Prove we need a tax increase. Lay it on the line. If we need it, we need it. Show us.
12:55 Right on brother, right on!
Too many different sets of numbers, too many different tales, not enough facts that can hold water.
Because the mayor did not want to see reality and so the utility tax was invented only to produce approximately $525,000 additional revenue. More was needed but he refused to see......so much that he bullied the BOA NOT to talk about any type of PP tax increase. Now I guess it is a different story....remember D. Madrid was wrong in her projections, J. Tate was also wrong and then along came the former CA shuffling numbers around to make everything look good.....
No tax increase with the current administration in place....need people with more expertise if you ask me (I know, you didn't ask me...)
Tom I am so sorry that I called you Mike. That would be a great insult. AGAIN SORRY
10:30 a.m. May 8
I agree with you, expertise has likely been the missing link in the Crestwood fiscal scene. That and some historical relevance, which hopefully with time can fade, but for now hangs over the city.
Our residents are not by nature skeptics but here is why they are pressing for answers ...
TWO AUDITS which stated "MISMANAGEMENT OF FUNDS"
(the details of which are disturbing)
A Mayor who resigned and 2 city administrators and a finance officer who left with full pockets (hmmm)
Outlandish (and I do mean outlandish) and undocumented legal bills
(you tell me)
A private swim club built a stones throw from city hall and homeowners backyards using some very creative financing, zoning and finnaggling
(see Kohl's and TIF's)
Did I mention a recent past BOA which, despite declining tax revenues and a huge LOC to pay the bills, refused to face reality and full speed ahead were willing to proceed giving the CA his castle to the tune of 14.5 Million and his BMW, while Whitecliff was draining funds and streets had holes. This nightmare averted by a group of residents who took to the streets for a signature referendum.
What could be more ridiculous than an excess of department heads with excessive salaries and debatable talents that included a finance officer who couldn't pass a 4th grade math test and a complete lack of a code of conduct.
Not to mention a board whose last action was to try and change the city charter so that termed out politicians could STAY. And then when that failed, spent the next 2 years throwing stones at the new Mayor and expecting some sort of overnight plan aka miracle.
With this kind of city history is it any wonder folks are having trouble "keeping the faith?" If we need a tax increase, we will need "trust and verify." Plain and simple. This is not a political football folks so don't plan to make it one. Thus, each Alderman and the Mayor will need to examine and re-examine the facts, demand answers, take no excuses. If you have a new guy up there moving numbers do you honestly think we feel comfortable yet?? Residents don't even know any more who the heck is rearranging the decimals and dots up there. They have no clue which headlines and which power points to believe. So if the board is going to again put their hands into our pockets, they best be prepared to get the factual bottom line and make sure we get it, too. We need insurance and assurance. Otherwise, when the next set of figures land and if they are bogus,the egg will be firmly placed on "their" faces.
Remember, haste makes waste.
No more cagey deals with a private swim club and a developer to hijack city money. This little dealy does and did not pass the smell test. You know, the parking lot fiasco and the $850,000. All the facts mentioned above should be fed into the think tank as it is proof enough that when we say we want to know what is under all the rocks, we have cause. When we say we want to know the background of the person moving the pencil, we mean it. Aldermen, it is your responsibility to make sure we are being served by qualified people at city hall who will stick around and who know what the heck they are doing. Accountability is KING. When we are assured of this, we will let you know if we think we are fortunate to have such a laudable and reasonable tax base. Our officials are having to deal with the recent past/a political hornets nest which can only be forgotten when confidence is restored. It has occurred to me that this BOA and this Mayor are a good deal more qualified and attuned to the plight of Crestwood than the one who put all those lumps under the carpet. People will most likely listen when assured that ALL the FAT is gone and the top guy does not just delegate and drive around in a city car but SHARES the elbow grease. Lots of people out there looking for jobs you know. Many amazingly qualified. Appreciation comes when people see their money utilized in the same way as their own money as they pay top dollar for gas and groceries and college AND are in a country which is borrowing to pay for a war. Crestwood is a Charter City. Now is the time to start acting like one. Otherwise, those wonderful services that folks wish to preserve will continue to be threatened. Taxing and spending is a crucial assignment. We certainly anticipate the forward contributions new mall owners can make as well as a hopeful increase in sales tax revenue and continued pride in a wonderful community. St. Louis County and Lindbergh District all clamor for our discretionary funds which give us pause for concern. It is time to be careful.
3:30 PM I think you have said it all and quite well in fact.
But what you fail to understand, however, is those who are no longer board members and mayors, you know, during those 14 million dollar police station years and prior, have yet to ADMIT that they did anything wrong.
And since then have not and will not ADMIT THEIR MISTAKES during their administration which was lead by their powerful God, Don Greer. They will forever have this wall of separation between themselves and the new administration. That faction and their supporters will never, ever go along with any idea brought forth by Mayor Robinson and most of the aldermen whether good or bad.
No sir. If Einstein woke up from the dead and did the Crestwood books, and told Crestwood exactly what we need, and what we have and what we can afford, and stated true facts and calculations, because these things were reported under Roy Robinson's watch, those persons who sat on the dais under the Fagan/Robertson years will not agree to it. It isn't going to matter how correct the numbers are. They will never, ever support anything that this Mayor desires to do, because THEY HAVE NO OBJECTIVITY. THEY ARE TOO BUSY HATING THIS MAYOR AND PLAYING POLITICS.
Plus, if they were to go along with whatever Roy purposes during his tenure, and the City does turn around; they would have to give him credit AND THEY WOULD NEVER, EVER WANT THAT.
They believed Don Greer, Diana Madrid, Tom Fagan and Jim Robertson who lied and deceived them; and so now they decide to put everybody under a microscope and watch all the dollar signs and decimal points. They never questioning the Key person, the CA that never told them the truth to begin with. But now, all of a sudden, they place this mayor and this administration to a HIGHER STANDARD, which they never did when they were on the dais!!!!!
But in theory, all your comments are right on the button.
Additionally, those who are blinded by political hate cannot see backward, see the fallen bricks, and the politics which created debt and doubt and distrust and ultimately beligerant blogs. Those who continually defend the indefensible are so critically stupid and full of hate that they don't even allow themselves the pleasure of participating in the future of our/their city. They are blind with some sort of pathetic loss of power and senseless need to avenge the new administration. Too busy in the shadows to participate in and preserve our city. This shield of denial has become the difference between progress and decay. Progress is hard to accomplish when there is a group of soreheads whose major goal is to discredit those who have put on their thinking caps and rolled up their sleeves and attended meetings and have put their faith in the Mayor the majority chose. Those who recognize the failures of the past and don't wish it repeated. The losers remain in hiding, but are recognizable. Even to the point that board votes remain packaged and amazingly enough are not transparent enough to hide the private swim club factor.Somehow it always prevails. Perhaps there is another community to which they can move. This would be a PLAN and a good one. That shoe they keep dropping is without a soul/sole.
This is a great city. I recently saw a crowd clapping at comments made by our Mayor. Two men did not clap. Two guesses who they were.
Roy has become a cult figure for some of you pro tax and spend liberals who support him and his many tax increases in his first 3 years in office.
He has had 3 years in office and when things get tough you have nothing better to do than run out the old whipping horse of "former" what ever to deflect inspection of Roy's plan or non plan.
Thankfully most voters in Crestwood do not read this blog and will vote according to the information currently at hand and their pocket book.
P.S. Did you see ALDERMAN Nieder get and leave while Roy was talking?
Help me with this, remember when the Board found out they had too much money from Prop S? It was just the first of this year, not when "former C/A. MAYOR or BOA were in charge".
One thing they did with the EXTRA property tax they collected from us in 2007, was to repay all the Funds the money they were due instead of having too much a surplus, remember?
Here's my question for those appointed by Tom as the wizards of our finances (Miguel, Foote, Nieder) if the Funds were all balanced by that action, how come the 1st quarter shows two out of three of the Funds in the red?
Another reason I can't trust anything this gang says because they really haven't a clue what they are doing.
Help me with this, remember when the Board found out they had too much money from Prop S?
The money was not received from propositon S. You fail to understand the requirements of the loan from Royal Banks and the obligation imposed on the city as a result of attempting to keep the lower cost to the city and tax free to the buyer bonds. Perhaps you should do your homework before objecting to loud. I challenge you to contact Nieder, Foote, or Miguel and become more educated? I will be waiting to hear the results.
4:01 blogger I agree with you 100% the whole bunch including the dumb donkey mayor do not know what they are doing, plus all of there damn lies that they are telling the people of Crestwood. We all better pray that this bunch doesn't get there hands own our hard earned money through this stupid proposed tax increase. God help all of us.
8:44 "dumb donkey mayor"???? Maybe you should have run for his job! I am sure you along with your other crew of idiots, you know the ones on the board of aldermen who approved a 14 million dollar police station, could have solved all of our problems. You and your clan did nothing but spend and spend when we didn't have anything thanks to your leaders. Now since you and yours helped us get where we are today, you want to make us think it is this mayor that got us there.
Like the previous blogger said, get your facts straight before you try to "blow smoke"; but as I have said before, it's still and always been partisan politics in Crestwood.
If the money wasn't from Prop S then were was it from? Still you cant answer the question, were did the "surplus" go, and why do we need a tax increase?
10:34 Perhaps you should read the blogger's comments from 8:39 PM which I will state:
The money was not received from propositon S. You fail to understand the requirements of the loan from Royal Banks and the obligation imposed on the city as a result of attempting to keep the lower cost to the city and tax free to the buyer bonds. Perhaps you should do your homework before objecting to loud. I challenge you to contact Nieder, Foote, or Miguel and become more educated? I will be waiting to hear the results.
8:39 PM, May 10, 2008
If you were so sure you were all-fired correct, you wouldn't be asking your question; which proves you don't really know "squat" about your assertions. If I were you I will do as the blogger said and contact the people who can give you the answers.
Blogger 9:14 You do not have kids that work for the City of Crestwood? May be that is why you stand up for the Dumb Donkey Mayor and giving away the candy store and let the rest of us citizens PAY. YOU IDIOT:
12:20 PM "Kids working for the City of Crestwood"??? Huh??? I guess I am an idiot because I don't know what you are talking about. Maybe you were one of those from the Tower of Babel because babel is all I hear.
If you are speaking about employees that work for the City when you say "kids working for the City of Crestwood", I have the utmost respect for them. Most of the ones I know do a darn good job.
If you want to call this mayor a dummy, what were the other mayors??? Smart? Jim Robertson who was able to resign all of a sudden and got away with being a bad boy; Tom Fagan that let Don Greer bleed us dry? Pray tell, what the heck are you talking about.
If you want to speak of idiots, and dummies, we have had several; but if you really want to be name calling, why not look at yourself first Bubba!
Blogger 12:20 WHAT A JERK, JUST LOOK AT YOUR FACE IN THE MIRROW. UGLY BOY:
Today is 5/12/08, blogger 2:05, it is now over 3 years since the former Mayors you list in your post were in office.
Those of us who are in touch with today are only dealing with today, not 3 or more years ago.
Our current Mayor is the only one who is office now and can now effect policy.
By the way, isn't Roy starting to sound like Fagan more than just a lettle bit when he talks about TIF's etc?
7:28 Well wake up and smell the coffee. What people in office did even 5 years ago has affected what is going on now as a country so why not Crestwood? The past is full of mistakes.
We are still paying for the Past Presidential mistakes that were made way before now, so why is it not the same for mayors and other officials who have run our city into the ground?
Let's speak of mistakes made especially to the median income population! Let's go back to when President Reagan said we can no longer deduct the interest on our credit cards. What about the fact that we now have to pay tax on our social security and our savings. What about the capital gains tax when you sell your home. What about the fact that if you take out your 401K to live on once you retire, you pay tax on that as well.
So if you want to forget about past mistakes, we are all paying for them every day in this country.
If this mayor has had only a little over 3 years to fix problems, you can keep blaming him if you so desire, but this money crunch and lack of revenue, is going on all over the United States which is a big factor contributing to our already big City money crunch that exists because of what has happened as long as ten years ago. So if you keep blaming this mayor, we have a right to bring up the past.
Blame Carl Buettner who wanted to pay as you go for a new community center and chastising Joe Vitalis who wanted to float a bond issue.
Blame Killoren who wanted absolutely bonded indebtedness.
And, of course, I could go on forever with the rest of the mayors before Roy, as well as one CA who wanted everything and threatened to quit if he didn't get his way. Roy got rid of him, and I say "right on".
Well, darn, I do apologise for my absence over the past few day's but I have been within four miles of Canada on an Island.
Folks, I have read most of the posts by now, and I fully believe we may be getting to wound up here.
Not everyone who posts here is a "idiot," or ugly, or? so what say we tone down the personal insults. and hit em with facts.
No for a liberal to wrap themselves around facts is a bit difficult as they are used to going right to the "personal attack" mode when challenged. So please cut them some slack, and go back at them with THE FACTS!
This will produce some "witty banter" that will be up-lifting to us all.
A very happy (post) Mothers Day to all of the Mom's here in Crestwood, and I pray you all have excellent day's with your families!
Tom Ford
9:29, you must be in love with the Mayor.
Oh sure I am!!!! That's feeble and you know it. And you must hate him!
Not talking about how I feel about the Mayor, just amazed how much you support him. Especial since he is now talking about being ok with TIF's CID and TID, AND MORE TAX INCREASES. (what is this now, his 6th tax increase in 3 years?) He sounds just like Fagan did 3 years ago when Roy ran against him. My how the worm turns once your in office and you find out all the political promises you made can not be kept. But those in love with Roy like a sweet hearted mother who can see no wrong in her son, no matter what he does, hang in there with him. I wonder if he really deserves your loyalty?
3:22 PM blogger: Well, I think he does. Every time I have asked the man a question I have gotten the truth, period.
He is doing what is necessary to move Crestwood forward, and he is doing a very good job of it (in my opinion.)
You know, some of us have seen various "leaders" come and go over the years, but I really do believe he (like Pat Killoran) has the best interest of Crestwood at heart!
You cant pl;ease all of the people, all of the time, but since no one seemed to have a better idea (unopposed!) I am sticking with the one who brought me this far!
Tom Ford
3:22 What do you mean "love the mayor"? Sorry, you are incorrect my fellow blogger.
Believe me, I am not at all throwing roses to Roy but I am not throwing "rocks" either.
No, Roy has not made all the right moves and I am not happy with his methodology all the time. He sometimes angers me with things that are said on the dais. But I cannot in all good conscience blame him for "everything" negative either.
But we were for many years being led around by the nose by the previous CA/Police Chief, previous board members and two mayors. They were not perfect by a long shot. And balony to those who think that shouldn't be taken into account when sizing up today's mayor.
So I say that maybe Roy needs a few lessons in diplomacy, but he knew a rat when he smelled one in Don Greer, got rid of the man who called himself King and who everyone on the dais listened to like nice boys and girls.
So I say, no I don't love Roy, but at least he cares about Crestwood and not himself and spending good money like past officials did just because they were told to by the city administrator, and funneling every last dime out of the city.
Why or why didn't someone go to the Hayner Library and see what Mr. Greer did to the money in Wood River. I did. It is written in black and white. You should go back and read the invoices and minutes. You will find out who out of all the department heads got whatever he wanted, before you think Roy is not doing his best.
Everybody thinks they know the truth about everything at city hall, but most only know what they are told which is not necessarily the truth.
Listen, I have been around a few years, and I am old but with age comes facing reality. We were conned pure and simple. I have seen things and have the longevity in this town to compare things.
Unlike some people, I am not going to side with those who totally continue to play politics and say that Roy does nothing right or side with factions of the past that should look at their own inept ways before saying things about this mayor. The past legislators of our city were conned by the con man and never saw it coming because nobody did their homework.
So enough about who loves who, who hates who. I love Crestwood; I want it back and it will only come back after we see what happens with people who are willing to work together.
Thank you.
Oh MY God, it's the old saw of blame the dead guy for the live guy's failures. Or the best one is "at least he's not as bad as" you fill in the blanks.
Yes, why didn't Mayor Roy go to the Hayner Library before he voted to make Greer the Police Chief? Ask him that and still say he has never lied to you. Or how about " I' didnt think we needed a tax increase till now". Pleazze, don't insult me with that lie, it was about not having anyone run against him that kept the thought of a tax increase off the April ballot.
Poster's 3:22 point was, and it's a correct one, the issues Roy stood differently on than Fagan when he ran for Mayor, he now agrees with.
That is pure politics on Roy's part and to think that he didn't know that when he said them 3 years ago is a kin to believing in fairy tales.
Face it, you are in love with the man, warts and all. It's ok, just admit that and your inner conflicts over what he he is doing now vs. what he said he would do, will go away. Trust me I know, I have had to do it.
7:25 Hey Rocketman, you are wrong. Roy never appointed Greer as police chief in the first place; Greer's two appointments police chief and CA happened way before Roy was appointed as Mayor. So you can't blame him for that. Anybody who has followed city politics knows that fact.
As far as going to the Hayner Library in Alton to get copies of what was in the newspaper at that time, it again wasn't up to Roy, you big bag of wind!! He wasn't part of city hall. Get it? He wasn't around when Greer was made police chief or city administrator. But the police chief who was retiring at that time knew all about Greer's past because he researched it but, still, the CA and Mayor at the time never did anything about it. He was suppose to have a record check done, but those in charge never executed it to be done even though Mayor Killoren, kept asking that it be done.
All I hear about is that the man is now deceased and we are playing the blame game. Well, you obviously didn't know the "dead guy" as you state or you would have been privy to a few facts and not made a fool of yourself on this blog. It is too bad that Greer will go down in history with the other thugs in society like Jesse James and not someone who made a contribution.
As far as passing away, nobody likes to hear or see that happen to anyone. But what you leave behind is also important.
So, have your fun and bantor, but you don't even have your facts straight in the first place so why not give it up instead of acting like a fool.
If I read one comment pro or con about Don Greer, I will be convinced that this blog is useless. LIVE IN THE NOW! The city has tons of issues at hand to be discussed. This blog can be valuable to that end. We all know what happened in the past. Get it over it! I don't want to bring the city back. I want to move it forward. And until more people get on board with forward thinking, Crestwood will continue to flap its arms in the mess of the past.
4:46 PM blogger: I know that you know what a "blog" is otherwise you would never have posted here.
That said, I agree, Greer and the rest of his merry cohorts are history, so why bother dredging up the past?
One reason could be the old saw "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it," but I think it's much more than that, and that would be a genuine plea for help from the current administration!
Your right, we must move forward, or were going to be next to extinct in St. Louis County. My Father always told me, "Who cares who killed Hitler as long as he's dead!," and I believe this applies here and now!
What say we all put aside our politics for a couple of years and get this town going again! Who knows. we ALL may love the results!
Tom Ford
I have only used the past when people discredit this mayor because he isn't Houdini. They call him names, and expect him to be perfect in every way BUT had no problem with what went on before him.
They call him dirty and rude names and expect everyone to be OK with it. If they would just remember what we had before, maybe they would keep their mouths shut and do what you and others say we should do, look forward.
That is the only reason why I try to make people remember what people did to "get us where we are today". They conveniently forget what a disaster we had before BUT hold Roy to every, single, solatary word, they cut him no slack, BUT had they held others to that high degree before, we wouldn't be where we are today.
They want to get their digs in only about Roy, and have the audacity to tell me that because I see past my nose, "I love the mayor" when all I am doing is trying to point out the differences and remind them that this mess isn't ALL this mayor's fault. He gets criticized for changing his mind, and stick it to him watching and waiting for one thing they can pounce on.
BUT, did they do that to Fagan and Greer or Robertson? NO!
Otherwise, I wouldn't even speak about the past. So if you take offense to what I say, please know that I wasn't talking to people like yourself, I was speaking to those who never looked that hard before or put past officials through a microscope but have no trouble calling Roy a "donkey mayor" and much worse.
I rest my case. Thank you.
Roy voted as an Alderman for Greer as Chief of Police, so stuff that up your nose and fill that vacuum that used to have a brain in it.
Yes, Roy did vote to hire the "Don" as Police Chief. I admit it, and I am sure he will too. EVERYONE MAKES MISTAKES. Some people even voted for "W". Get over it!
Nothing to get over, you were wrong I was right.
9:04 Dear Brain Dead, NO! WRONG AGAIN! Roy was NOT an "alderman" at the time Greer was hired: He was a police commissioner on the Police Board, YOU GOT THAT? He did OK hiring him, but he also saw fit to get rid of his "sorry posterior" when Greer's actions told Roy this guy was trouble. That simple. SO, get over yourself.
Roy had no crystal ball to know that Greer would help bring down the city, BUT REMEMBER HE WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE ON THE BOARD OF POLICE COMMISSIONERS TO OK THE HIRE. YOU WANT TO CHASTISE THE REST OF THE POLICE BOARD TOO, OR JUST ROY??? NO, I GUESS JUST ROY HUH!
I do not intend to pursue this fight any longer. Like I said before, you keep trooling around in the water, and you just keep on trying to find arguments all you so desire. Those in key roles at that time can defend him cause it makes no difference to me. I heard what I heard and saw what I saw and you can take your theories and run with them, but all it means is that you don't know the truth from the hole in your head.
"trooling"?
10:49 Still in love with Roy. You need to check the years when Roy was an Alderman and when Greer was hired as Chief of Police. I think you will find there is a match up of the dates
Surly you who can take the time to go to libraries in ILL. to check up on Greer, can take the time to check this out for us. It's not near as far to drive for you.
4:10 No you are wrong. I have been up to city hall and have read the minutes of many past BOA meetings.
I also knew personally the city clerk as well as other department heads who were there when Greer started as well as the person who did the minutes of the meetings back in the 1980's and 1990's.
But if you still feel I am wrong, have your say. I was very familiar with city hall at that time and some of the people back then were good friends of mine. I have no reason to lie about it but suit yourself.
To put a little relativity on the issue of the past, the past does affect the now as we are still wading through it. Feeling the repurcussions of really bad city government led by some very questionable souls. Sure Greer has gone to the great municipality in the sky. Sadly a background check was not made on him prior to his tenure here. This was Licklider's fault probably. The worst part is that RobberMan, Fagan, Timmy the TrueBee, Do Nothing Duwe, La La Labore, Breedo, Golter boy, the Vodka King, and of course the Pres of the sinkhole swim club's Real Estate Co. and that bunch of NudNigs turned the city over to The Dondo and created a monster that we are still trying to cope with. Rearranging the facts in a factual order have been hard as the paper shredder was on overtime in those days. Questions have never been answered and accountability was unheard of. So the scrabble game centered around Dondo and his willing participants and his BMW and expensive plans for a castle and a mediocre city government led by this motly crue, have lent fodder for a blog which releases tension for the knowing and raises the dander of those who are having trouble facing their past knowing it is probably going to cost them a tax increase, a place in history and lower property values. Keeping this alive scores no points, but it is fact and it is sad but funny. Mismanagement of funds, a 3.5 Million LOC, with city property as collateral, a testy City Admn. who works in total secrecy, a planned 14.5 M city hall rehab with a deficit bottom line. a finance officer with a debit brain and a Mayor who resignes in the middle of the night, Ewers Drive which is like a dirt road, a muni pool with its head below water and a police force taking sides with politics coupled with sinking tax revenues does not leave the recesses of ones mind quickly. Then on top of this, this sorry bunch, regroups in order to run down the new Mayor and whine. Geeze, what Kurt Vonegut could do with this.
But let it go. Naw... Not yet.
Whatever.....has nothing to do with the current people at city hall and how they don't know what they are doing. No tax increase until they get their act together if that is possible.
I wish Martha would repost her post.
8:06 PM May 20
It looks like you got your wish. My post got "re-posted" (under a different subject), but since I was nowhere near a computer at the time it was made, I was left with no choice but to attribute the "re-post" to a phantom.
Martha Duchild
Folks, I, (the Crestwood Independent) will be making a policy statement, Visa VE the tax increase after the Memorial day holiday. This may stun some of you, but it is the way I see it!
For now, please join me in honoring those that gave the ultimate sacrifice to this Great Nation.
Tom Ford
Oh be still my beating heart.
7:41 AM blogger: Indeed, I thought we agreed that you would not discuss your longing for my words on this blog. Gee, it's embarrassing!
Tom Ford
4:38 PM, May 07, 2008
Yes.
In a world of $4.00 a gallon gas, increasing food costs, and other bills, yes it is high to me.
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