My position paper on the proposed tax increase in Crestwood!
For some time now I, and my fellow bloggers have had a lot to say reference the proposed tax increase of $.35 cents per $100.00 of assessed value.
I have spent quite a bit of time looking at this City as if it were a business that I was running, and the BOA was my Board of Directors (the Mayor being the COO.) I will admit I have zero experience running a City, but I do run a business that grossed 2.4 Million last year with a very good gross margin.
So what say you? Well I will be glad to tell you my friends. In my opinion before we go to the Citizens (bank) for more operating capitol I believe we have many other avenues that must be explored first. Like what you say? Well please allow me to list them for you.
1. City animal control, this costs us well over $70 thousand per year! Give it to County.
2. Police Dept., Way too many command staff, traffic officers, and detectives. Do not
hire new officers until the budget is balanced.
3. At current gasoline prices no more "take home cars" for anyone, park police
vehicles for 15 min. (rotating) per hour in a neighborhood.
4. Privatise the Sappington House (this cost us a fortune every year.)
5. Privatize White cliff Aquatic center (bring in a company to run it for profit.)
6. Hold off on any unneeded repairs until budget improves.
These are just some of the ideas to cut the outgoing funds, small maybe but needed. Now a look at the balance sheet, I am told we have $4 million in the bank, and we pulled in $1 million more in the first quarter (between all three funds) than last year, so where is the problem so far (other than TIF, TDD, CID's we gave away for?)
Our problem is that the Crestwood Courts are not going to start renovation until next spring and we will face a shortfall there, so cuts will be the order of the day (not tax increases.)
Bottom line to this rant is I am firmly against any sort of TAX Increase until, and unless someone shows me where we have cut expenses, and we will not survive unless we have an increase!
I challenge the BOA to get moving on these cuts sooner rather than later, and if they do not feel they can do it, well save the $10,000 it will cost to put in on the ballot because I believe it will fail miserably.
UPDATE: Please click on the header for a story from the Post Dispatch reference a "TAX HOLIDAY," (of all things!) This takes the cake as far as I am concerned!
Tom Ford
NO. 506
I have spent quite a bit of time looking at this City as if it were a business that I was running, and the BOA was my Board of Directors (the Mayor being the COO.) I will admit I have zero experience running a City, but I do run a business that grossed 2.4 Million last year with a very good gross margin.
So what say you? Well I will be glad to tell you my friends. In my opinion before we go to the Citizens (bank) for more operating capitol I believe we have many other avenues that must be explored first. Like what you say? Well please allow me to list them for you.
1. City animal control, this costs us well over $70 thousand per year! Give it to County.
2. Police Dept., Way too many command staff, traffic officers, and detectives. Do not
hire new officers until the budget is balanced.
3. At current gasoline prices no more "take home cars" for anyone, park police
vehicles for 15 min. (rotating) per hour in a neighborhood.
4. Privatise the Sappington House (this cost us a fortune every year.)
5. Privatize White cliff Aquatic center (bring in a company to run it for profit.)
6. Hold off on any unneeded repairs until budget improves.
These are just some of the ideas to cut the outgoing funds, small maybe but needed. Now a look at the balance sheet, I am told we have $4 million in the bank, and we pulled in $1 million more in the first quarter (between all three funds) than last year, so where is the problem so far (other than TIF, TDD, CID's we gave away for?)
Our problem is that the Crestwood Courts are not going to start renovation until next spring and we will face a shortfall there, so cuts will be the order of the day (not tax increases.)
Bottom line to this rant is I am firmly against any sort of TAX Increase until, and unless someone shows me where we have cut expenses, and we will not survive unless we have an increase!
I challenge the BOA to get moving on these cuts sooner rather than later, and if they do not feel they can do it, well save the $10,000 it will cost to put in on the ballot because I believe it will fail miserably.
UPDATE: Please click on the header for a story from the Post Dispatch reference a "TAX HOLIDAY," (of all things!) This takes the cake as far as I am concerned!
Tom Ford
NO. 506
posted by Crestwood Independent at 15:00
124 Comments:
Tom
You said it very wisely. I totally agree with your points of reason. GOOD JOB:
Sunday, December 02, 2007
The dreded "T" word (tax increase) how do you feel about it?
Ladies and Gentlemen, I think it's time to take a very close look at what we want, and need here in Crestwood. To that end I am starting a thread that will be sent to every Alderman, the Mayor, And Mr. Myers.
Before we start, this is not a thread to bash current or former City leaders, and none will be allowed. In fact if I find any posts doing that, they will be deleted at once!
Now that we have the ground rules out of the way, lets look at where we are, and what we face in the future. Our buildings are back out of hock, we have a balanced budget for 08, and we have more cash flow than we should (that will change very soon.) This is the good news.
Now for the bad news, the plaza issue is up in the air, the Watson Rd. exit is closed (for two years) off of I-270, we will need revenue to continue to operate as we are today, and the economy is any one's guess in an election year.
What to do? Well my idea is to garner a complete and comprehensive report on the state of the City, with projections for the next five years from Mr. Myers. Once we have a definitive report in the hands of the BOA and the Mayor they must share it with us, word for word, and line by line!
At that point it will no doubt become clear that we will need a TAX INCREASE to continue to provide the services we enjoy today! The only question as I see it is "how much, and how long?" I believe it may be as much as .44 cents over a five year period (sunset after five years or before.) Now comes the question, are you willing to come together and insure the future of Crestwood, or are you not?
I know this is a "death" question for any politician to ask, so I am doing it for all of them! We must see some leadership from the Dias on this, or I firmly believe we will witness the end of Crestwood as we know it today!
Well, there it is, I don't like it any more than you do, but it's going to be a fact of life, so the sooner the leadership gets behind it the better! Forget the campaign rhetoric, forget the promises, and give us the leadership we need!
Your comment please, they WILL go to the BOA, the Mayor, and Mr. Myers as I said, so your turn.
Tom Ford
NO.431
posted by Crestwood Independent at 10:09
Tom
Great meeting you last Friday in Alton.
As a resident of neighboring Grantwood Village (which is very dependent on the prosperity of Crestwood) it is great to see reasonable conservative voices checking the leaders of Crestwood.
It certainly seems as if the leaders of Crestwood, to some certain extent, are holding onto/promoting a welfare state mentality.
We had this argument in Grantwood Village a few months back with regard to a proposed cell phone tower. Leaders refused to look at cutting services/fat as a possible solution to decreased revenues.
Good luck with the good fight...Andy Stann
I think your suggestions are excellent. Some other suggestions:
-see if a non-profit run and pay for Sappington House;
-do we need that many police cars? I know we need extra vehicles, but how many do we need?
-do we still need the city hall kiosk?
9:59 AM blogger: Congratulation's! You have passed the "cut and paste" section of the class!
Now for you next assignment let's see if you can add anything of value here, such as where cuts can be made.
Come on now, show us that genius side!
Tom Ford
10:45 AM blogger: "do we still need the city hall kiosk?" In my mind, no we do not. Anyone looking for assistance can see the police dispatcher, or clerks office.
The extra police cars are a question mark because we may need the extra cars for officers in a National Emergency. How likely that is, is where the question mark comes in.
All that said, I am sure we can collectively put our heads together and offer up suggestions that will work.
Now the question becomes do we have the leadership in place that will do what is needed?
Tom Ford
Also, eliminate the job opening for the Admin. Asst. for Public Works.
With the advent of email, voicemail, cell phones and Outlook Calendars can't the City share 1 well trained secretary across departments?
Our company secretary ratio is 1 to 250 employees. What is it in Crestwood?
"Our company secretary ratio is 1 to 250 employees. What is it in Crestwood?"
Excellent point and good question. Not sure of the answer and I'm not sure if the city knows.
I see we replaced our eco. development director with a "management analyst".
Belt tightening, as has been and is needed HERE AND NOW AND ACTUALLY FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS does not/did not/should not have included the addition of any high paying jobs, i.e. assistant anythings on the city payroll. Rather than the constant changing financial blueprint and lots of chatter all around, this city needed some very serious financial expertise/talent and a BOA who admitted and agreed to it; not a series of department heads, here today gone tomorrow, overburdening the payroll and creating little more than vascallating between "crisis and we are doing fine." It needed a CA who could "handle" the job. One hired to do this; one committed to facts, and giving the Board the right signals to allow for the right decisions. One who planned to stick around!!! But, alas, time and the revolving bottom line has made this clear and time is moving right along while revenue sinks.
Now, more than ever, people are cutting every corner they can, examining every possible way to ease financial burdens. Now, more than ever we must consider the fact that city employees and employees in general are doing double duty and making every hour count. We are ALL dealing with life in this respect. But, being employeed, we are grateful. Realizing that jobs are being lost all over the area and raises are on hold sounds an alarm. If one is short on elbow grease and their sleeves don't roll up, it is time to find a job with fewer expectations. Residents cannot continue to be taxed to death. City, County, State, National, School District, high sales tax due to TIF's, utility taxes,Personal P. Tax and MODOT, etc. (good grief, water runoff) This is "stop the insanity time," it is the day of reckoning. Don't hound us with "losing services" and unecessary-ness. Don't tell us about our ridiculously low taxes. That luster has been lost in the details of our past 6 years and the revelations of our future.
Back to Basice - for heavens sake, people are losing jobs and homes while we discuss how many cars are necessary to patrol 4 square miles and provide protection for an empty mall. Is it time for re-evaluation of status quo?
The city paperwork, over the months, has yet to be definitive or public enough to be impressive. It has been interpreted by too many and explained by not enough. Will the REAL BUDGET please stand up with the same decimals two meetings in a row and deal with the reality of our situation by considering all facets, not just the "T on the ballot" one which tends to leverage fear and indecision. Didn't we just do that a couple of years ago to pay off the LOC? In the doing, did we not then begin to see some slippage, back to some bad habits perhaps, you know false security. Reload the city payroll? New cars, new systems, etc. Ah yes, the budget put together for the umteenth time by the umpteenth person and ultimately interpreted vocally by those who envision a life saving tax increase while thinking that those of us with doubts and accountability questions are daft. Those looking for explanations. The school district has its hand out. Each utility company is getting or petitioning for a rate increase, gasoline and food are biting hard, college is becoming a pipe dream for our children and meds, health and the cost of war fill our dreams with darkness. Our mall is on a delayed outreach program. This has been evident for some time now. Duh! There was ample time to 'stop the insanity." But the powers that be needed a brake job and a microscope not provided by input from departing employees. Common sense and expectation. Now they claim the answer is on the ballot. But this does not mean they are off the hook. From now till then I believe this BOA owes it to the community to keep that pedal to the floor and discipline themselves to continued dedication to the details, continued budget restrictions and discussions which might contribute to a change of heart. When this kind of ball gets dropped, the need for 91 municipalities in St. Louis County, with 91 governing bodies loses all justification. I am tired of so many hands in my pocket so often. The sugarplums have stopped dancing in my head.
Now hear this ... looking for a final budget in black and white on which to determine need. Looking for each alderman and the mayor and the author of the budget to endorse this budget and sign on the bottom line. Looking for a budget breakdown from city hall with emphasis on credibility. Looking for backup on which to make decisions and projections. Looking for city officials whose interest in the figures are as intense and questionning as that of those of us who cannot settle for vagueness and excessive chatter made without formidable backup or within time limitations at meetings.
How about (among other things) basic spreadsheet:
... number of employees in each department and their titles
... number of city owned vehicles and to whom they are assigned
... complete payroll inclusive of vacations, pensions, etc. broken down by person and by dept.
... salaries of aldermen and mayor
... payoffs
... happy fizzies parties
... gas audit
... average monthly runs of fire dept. vehicles: paramedic calls, fires, assists, runs to Sears electrical room and mall, etc
... all utilities, by department
... any dues, municipal league expenses (trips, conferences, etc.)
... all expense report expenses, inclusive of meals, trips etc. listed by spendee
... average monthly payment to city attorney with complete breakdown of reason and hours, etc.
... average take from municipal court including expenses and percent of total budget attributed to this function
... complete insurance coverage of city and all it entails
... any and all expenses involved in uniforms and equipment and maintenance
... average cost to maintain whitecliff pool (all costs) focusing on indebtedness, employees, supplies, planned activities etc.
... average costs to maintain all city parks and public functions with cost to city
... cost of monthly newsletter, and web site
... average equipment repair and replacement in public works including salt, overtime, new purchases, etc.
... all street maintenance and replacemens costs
...all costs involved with our industrial parks as well as our retail businesses
... costs involved with plaza patrol
... all costs attributed to lateral sewer repair and total amount of the $28/household held in abeyance and where it is held
(copy of this program attached)
... any furniture purchases and parking lot costs, misc. costs to city for replacements items with breakdown
... all expenses related to the private swim clubs usage of our city parking lot, trash, codes, peace distsurbance
... ALL legal billings, total breakdown with description
... any interest accrued on city money and all interest payable, describe
... payouts to banks on loc
... all revenue from business licenses
... all retail tax revenue and date deposited
... bottom line inclusive of money coming in, money going out
... projections for new year
.... all obvious ommissions by this poster
When the light of day shines this clearly, for us, we can cast the die. Remember the Mayor who resigned to spend time with his family riiiiight, well his claim to fame was to promote the sunshine in this city. So here's the ultimate opportunity to do just that! Shed that light on the budget for us and verify its credibility.
P.S. Find a way to get our excessive property tax returned.
The sacred-cow Sappington House would be first on my list. I've lived in Crestwood for 19 years and never-ever have had the desire to visit the museum or the "tea-room". Seems to me the Sappington House complex is little more than a social club for those who defend it's budget at BOA meetings.
Haven't had the leadership in place with what it takes to do what is needed in 3 years one month.
What I don't understand is every year the CA is required to provide a 5 year projection. What ever happens to those???? Are they dismissed?? Hmmmmmmm
I feel sorry for Brian Gross. Doing all the work and not getting compensated adequately.
How about all city projects be managed by the city versus opening a TDD and CID?
Has anyone analyzed the cell phone bills and DSL bills for everyone?
We are only a four mile citizen with a budget for a Ladue city.
How long can this last?
Eventually we will have to merge with Sunset Hills or Kirkwood or Oakland or Afton.
See what is happening in other states.
Consolidation and Mergers to share services.
What about the gross receipts from the businesses? Who tracks these revenues?
Can you do number 4 while there is still a debt package being paid off by public tax dollars?
Wouldn't it be better to sell Crestwood Park to a residential developer for several millions of dollars? Doing this would 1) increase our population which might put us in a sales tax pool position and remove us from the need to be point of sale city, 2) increase the total money city gets from property tax without an increase in our rate,3) reduce the cost to the City for the maintenance of the park that is under utilized, 4)provide new streets at no building cost to City, hopefully the sale of 21 acres would produce at least $500,000 to help get the city a balance budget.
Down side, those people who have had the park as a part of their back yard will not be happy, but if the voters were given a choice between keeping the park and having a property tax increase and selling the park and having no tax increase, what do you think the voters would choose? It would take real leadership by our elected officials to push this, but if the August increase fails, maybe then they will see the light and not ignore the need for a plan B?
I believe in the paper Alderman Foote said something like "I hope this tax proposal will make people ask questions." Well, here they are. Please answer as many as you can.
Tom, as a former law enforcement officer, what does Crestwood do with all the Police vehicles it has? How many are on the street at any given time?
Are there not enough surrounding police that can be called on in a dire emergency?
9:55 PM blogger: as I understand it we have five vehicles out on patrol at the same time (four patrolman, one supervisor.)
The "down cars" are there \to spell the others and are rotated as such. In a National emergency we can only rely on our own first responders as other municipalities will be taking care of their own.
Tom Ford
I have added a story from the Post Dispatch (simply click on the header for same,) and tell me why we even are thinking of a TAX HOLIDAY?
I know the "party line" that some like to spout saying that we need more people to visit Crestwood! That said, with gas prices ($4.09 in Illinois today) do we really think people will drive here (past all the other muni's with tax abatement?
I am also amazed at the possibility that Mayor Robinson has threatened to VETO the 5-2 BOA decision against a TAX HOLIDAY! The vote was Bland and Foote for the holiday and the rest nay (McGee absent.)
Now in order to veto this the Mayor will need two more votes on his side. May I suggest you call your Alderman and tell him of your great displeasure visa vie this idea!
All that aside folks, remember who is voting for what here, and place it in a safe spot in your mind, because next April we will have the chance to toss out some of those who would rather "switch than fight!"
Tom Ford
The Mayor is worried about losing $10's of thousands of dollars to a Sales Tax Holiday, but not a bit worried about the impact to the local economy by removing $1 Million a year for the next 6 years?
Come on folks, the only people that shop in Crestwood are for the most part from Crestwood. People are squeezed enough. We are lucky we have a Sam's Club cause everyone else will be at Kirkwood Commons stretching their dollars for years to come.
We are very lucky to have Sam's Club... plus Shop 'n Save and Westlake Ace Hardware have brought two of our ghost-town shopping centers back to life. There are things to be happy about in Crestwood.
8:13 PM blogger: AMEN my friend, these have been a Godsend, now let's all make sure we use them, I do.
Tom Ford
Tom
are you going to write any letters to the newspapers expressing your position? Do you know of any group that is forming that shares your views on this latest tax increase, I'd like to join.
Many of the questions posed on this blog regarding a tax are very good ones and fair ones and serious ones. While this blog offers opinions of the electorate, they don't get answers on this kind of forum. The elected, however, owes us the answers.
Please, on behalf of all of us, someone get these ducks in a row and go to a meeting and get them answered, every single one. Or, get on the agenda and get the answers in a more formal way. We need to hear the answers NOW and see exactly what the thinking is on the Board and by who. Remember residents/constituants got out on the streets of the city and changed the history of Crestwood by stopping the city hall revamp and the charter changes, which were both preposterous. Time for more of this kind of civic responsibility. It is apparent that residents need answers and want to know with total confidence that city hall is working on high beam and not punting. Residents should not have to do the work of city hall. People also want confidence that the money the city fathers are spending now is being carefully spent. If here is doubt about any of this, adding more tax dollars to the bottom line will only increase our resident debt while giving free reign to city hall which cannot substantially prove the need.
Until the absolute need is established and each board member impresses us with this need, why should we have the courage to fork over any more tax dollars? Our cupboards are going dry, too.
Perhaps forming a resident think tank is a good idea. It sure was the last 2 times. It really is time to get serious. The neverending story just never stops. Different fiscal tales every meeting for the last 2 years with little proof and accountability. We need to know about the wolf at the door, cause it just keeps growling.
Well besides my personal property tax portion, my additional annual payment to the city is $356.88. I am on budget billing for utilities so I don't need to look up past bills. (monthly rate x 12)
This amount includes the amounts from my cell phone bill, AmerenUE bill, Laclede gas bill and AT&T bill.
I hope the mayor understands that if he vetoes the board's decision regarding the sales tax holiday, it will result in two things: 1. He will galvanize those who are opposed to the tax increase proposed for the August ballot and 2. He will give opponents yet another reason to encourage residents to vote against the tax.
It would behoove the mayor to think twice about using his veto powers.
Martha Duchild
If he vetos the sales tax holiday, what about a recall movement? Charter says we have to wait 6 mths after the election of April so that would beOCT before we could take action. Anyone else share this view point?
I thought by hindering staff from providing additional 2008 budget analysis that was requested by the BOA would have at least brought up the censure portion of the Charter.......
Face it, currently the current BOA and mayor are unable to run the city as it needs to be.
Heck, can't even get neighbor's code violations rectified. Why even have them????????????
4:28 PM - If he keeps acting the way he does, that might be a consideration.
4:28 PM blogger: If he veto's this I will be the first to tell him (and the Board) the good citizens of Crestwood are going to put forth a petition of "no confidence!"
I know, I am just a poor blue collar worker from the lower regions of ward 2, but, enough is enough.
Martha said it above " It would behoove the mayor to think twice about using his veto powers." And I second that thought!
Tom Ford
7:34 AM blogger: Indeed I will write letters to the local papers, in fact I will give interviews if they want them!
Will there be a group formed? It is beginning to look that way, so let's see where the BOA and the mayor go from here before we look into that.
Tom Ford
How did we get off topic so fast? From tax to recall. Is the Mayor just using his rightful powers based on his personal determinations? Are we again moving into political theater? Or,is this simply the way government works? Governing is a right justified by laws and rules. This is government at work. Why the hysteria? Go before the board and state your cases bloggers... pro or con holiday tax. Board members including the Mayor are not mind readers.
Regarding the 35 cent tax issue.. again, address the board, make thoughts public,remove all doubt that we are all serious, this time, about truth and facts and the difference between NEED and protecting official behinds and their pulpit which allows this and the publicizing of possible propaganda to get a public YES.
Let's get to that budget NOW and draw out the board and state the case and give the board members a chance to speak to comments (and not held back by the 3 minute rule). When it comes to the words TAX and BUDGET and ACCOUNTABILITY, there is nothing that takes prescedence. Let's find out exactly what cuts have been taken, let's stick our nose in it. Officials that voted yes to put the 35 cent tax on the ballot for the people to decide, should be prepared to prove the need, justify their vote and promise oversight.
Voters should not have to vote a blind yes. City officials have known for a long time that people are no longer fooled by threats. People no longer have an excess of discetionary money. They are being faced with tax increases from every taxable entity. Life is getting very expensive.
If you don't get your answers, THEN bring up recall, censure, whatever for the entire board. The Mayor is not the only one, they all receive the same facts. This is a shared responsibility is it not? Let's make the case that without a budget and projection in black and white delivered by the board with their confidence vote, we will have no recourse but to postpone thoughts of a tax increase until such time as the word "assurance" comes into play. In the meantime, keep the belt tight at city hall because this is what the times demand.
11:28PM blogger: Excellent point! Let's all stay on target here, and reference the tax increase only!
Tom Ford
11:28 No offense meant, but based on the past actions of this group do you really thing we are going to get any answers from them? The impression i get is they really don't know the answers which is even more of a concern.
The politics of the group is the flip flopping, the fact it is brought up is not politics.
Well, I for one am glad to see so many of the bloggers here raising such great questions. It is refreshing to see that something as important as a tax increase has brought those of you posting here, feeling a need now to request action from your elected public officials on an issue of city survival yet noone has questioned the recent article in the local papers about our school district considering a tax increase that will bring your school taxes to 8-10 times the amount you pay to Crestwood. Think about it, your Crestwood Property tax increase will provide better streets, guaranteed fire and police service whose costs you have control over, safe and convenient parks close to home. Yes, it is absolutely, positively necessary for our city to be fiscally responsible and for our elected officials to be watchdogs of our monies but none of us as citizens will get a better bang for our buck than right here in Crestwood. And at 8-10 times the tax monies, how many of the above services does the Lindbergh School district provide with the tax money they receive from you? What services does your Zoo tax which is just below your current property tax provide? if you are not going to help yourself who do you think is going to do it? The State of Missouri? The Federal Government? I think not. We the citizens of Crestwood have to decide who we are going to support. I look at our City like my family, when the going gets tough and I have to cut back, I cut back on donations, travel, and other unnecessary items but I take care of my families needs first and foremost. Bottom line, Crestwood would be a great deal at three times the current tax rate. Think about it.
9:56 AM May 31
Consider yourself extremely fortunate to live in the Lindbergh School District. The school board has worked hard on your behalf - they have one of the highest bond ratings of any school district in the state, and they are scrupulous with managing the district's finances. The district needs to bring capital assets in line with expansion, and they are trying to do so without putting a tax increase on the ballot.
Families buying homes in Crestwood are influenced by many factors, but one that ranks high on the list is whether the home is located in a good public school district. You may not have any children in the public school system, but allowing the school to maintain the high standards it has worked so diligently to achieve has a direct impact on your property values.
Don't forget that Lindbergh School District's finances are greatly impacted by TIF's, so keeping the district financially sound is a constant struggle.
Martha Duchild
"The school board has worked hard on your behalf - they have one of the highest bond ratings of any school district in the state, and they are scrupulous with managing the district's finances."
Some of the expenses in Prop R. must have been in small print. The ballot issue was also pushed in poor taste. It was pushed on the basis of "school safety". Yet, the bulk of expense is not for School safety. But who is going to argue against keeping kids safe?
Also, the best answer the District has for Seniors faced with high property taxes...a reverse mortgage?
And does the District really need to build a warehouse? A warehouse that will not alleviate space concerns.
Sure, we have a good school district, and we love our city and all its offerings. Are we also enamored with Laclede Gas, Ameren U.E., MSD, American Water Co., AT&T and Charter, Horizon (etc.)The Highway Dept., Metro Link. all of whom are proposing a tax increase and who also provide SERVICE? Are we happy with our Personal Property Tax and our recent and soaring '07 Real Estate Tax increase. Do we realize that Lindbergh School District, while exemplary, also has its hand out? Do we realize that we have TIF's at Kohl's and Grewe has one and Crestwood Court will NO DOUBT be looking for a handout? Do you realize Crestwood has to pay Affton Fire Dist. for the annexed fire service in Crestwood. Two Fire companies. Great deal for the annexed!!! Not for me and certainly not cheap. So, while blogger wants to promote need and praise all our attributes and posture on the defensive for the.35 tax increase, perhaps they can tell us how we can spin straw into gold. If we keep taxing ourselves based on the endless and changing foggy budget reports not to mention some variable fiscal incompetance visited upon us by past job hopping employees with sketchy resumes, and officials with neither foresight nor ability in the financial arena, we will soon discover that the "LUSTRE," the magic of our city, as presented by the blogger for good this, that and the other, has vanished along with our college and retirement funds. It is going to take a lot more than what we have been witnessing to be impressive enough to throw more money out there to be spent by those who in some sort of stupor or denial drank the Kool Aide put in front of them not noticing that Mother Hubbard's Cabinet was in dire need of Cupboard Help and yet POSTPONED, PUT OFF, DELAYED major belt tightening and austerity until Mayday.
Maybe we need to have a giant bake sale or drain Whitecliff. My allowance is not going up but gas is, and it is becomming imperative for me to realize some sort of attitude adjustment pertaining who holds my wallet.
Well we all get what we pay for my friend. And since we all have had other increases in our taxes, you use that as your premise for not wanting to do it for your community. Well in that case, like I said, you will get what you pay for. You will get less and less service from your city, but your city has not been the entity that bleeds you dry. So you would punish the city because all your other taxes are high.
That's fine, if you say No New Taxes to Crestwood. When our police and fire service is gone, as well as our other services, because you and others don't want to pay for it, our property values will decline, and you will get what you paid for in less dollars for your house.
Hope I am well gone out of this town by then cause, there isn't going to be much of anything left except people who are used to getting nothing and have nothing to give. You can live next door to them if you so desire, cause you'll get what you paid for.
You want to bitch about the police cars, or the firefighters, see what happens when they are gone.
You want what we all want, everything for nothing but it doesn't work that way. You get what you pay for.
Honestly we want to get the most value for our dollars.
(For example only)
We've got a group of city officials sitting around eating steak dinners. At the end of the meal they say, "Okay, everyone put in $40." And 1 Alderman says, "wait a minute, I only had a salad?"
We've got 1 alderman willing to sit down and try to figure out how much money is really needed. The rest are just following along with the herd.
Sorry, money doesn't come easy for me. I'm going to fight to hold on to it for me and my family.
As others have mentioned, you don't even have to touch Police and Fire.
Are we 100% sure that the Police and Fire Dept do not have places where cuts could be made without effecting their ability, performance?
It seems to me that we pay something for what we get - in the form of higher sales taxes and moderately high utility taxes.
While the rate has stayed the same, our assessments have grown higher, and so has the property tax income for the city.
So don't give me this stuff that we want something for nothing.
Get what you paid for eh... what is it unpatriotic to strive for living within means? If taxes don't eat me alive, your house is worthless!!!!! Supersize, in a town of 4 sq. miles. I don't think so.
Blogger is apparently confusing concern with stinginess and selfishness. If I have to fork over and over and over in order to maintain the status quo in Crestwood, then you darned well better believe I expect excellence in governance which includes accountability, budgeting, fiscal responsibility and not giving away the store. And for sure, recognizing fiscal problems in a timely and professional manner.
How much more would my house be worth if there was a 14 million dollar city hall police building up on Detjen Drive being used as collateral for a loan which was paying our electric bill. You see, that is a true story, your basic horror story, and it is not only haunting but the results of official legislation by political forces/croonies who did not know their heads from a hole in the ground. This is history that does not bear repeating. So while you are threatening us with self destruction, lay out a plan for us that promises us that the officials will have their eye on the ball and not become disjointed every 2 years at election time, but rather have the ability to carry on with a master plan that assuages all our concerns about our future.
And while you are at it, blogger, do something to assure yourself that the candidate you chose for your alderman and Mayor has the time and capabililties to hunker down with what it takes to keep the value of your home where YOU want it to be.
Your threats, are they backed up by facts or is it propaganda? Have you personally satisfied yourself that all economic avenues have been studied and the fact that we have had no in house financial leadership because our hiring practices don't seem to take into consideration that besides zealous protection of good fire and police there has been a noticeable lack of zealous protection for OUR MONEY; financial expertise on the city payroll (like say a hired professional full time money manager) whose idea of a budget is not a spastic spreadsheet. Apparently City Administrators are not the answer when money is tight and expectations high. So fellow blogger, tighten up your expectations before you try to sell us on our lack of reality. You may very well already be my neighbor.
Well so far this has been a very spirited and informative discussion! Some very good ideas have been put forth, and we can only hope the BOA takes heed!
I would like to toss in a couple of points here that bear some thought. The Police Department doesnt need to be "cut" personnel wise, some re-distribution of personnel, and holds on rank promotions should be done though.
The Fire Department seems to be on track personnel wise, and in my mind can grab a "pass." Public Works, by it's very nature requires a certain amount of personnel, and as such seems to be on track (with minor exceptions noted below.)
Now, where do we make the "cuts?" Well, every other community around us uses the County for animal control, but I am told that's a "sacred cow" in Crestwood, so leave it alone! In a word PHOOIE!
Two building inspector's? WHY? Excess personnel in City Hall in the old C/A office (remember, Frank had an "entourage!")
I received a communication from a BOA member that said we would need to do a "study" before we could privatize White cliff, and The Sappington House. Well that's what "work sessions" are for!
Legal bills, to say the least they have been, and are ridiculous. In the past we have paid for legal bills that told us nothing about what they were for, are we still doing that?
I understand that there are no doubt things that I am not privy to that require legal opinions, but Crestwood sure seems to have a lot of them for a small town!
I refuse to believe that we cannot "cut" one million dollars from the budget this year to make up for (what the Alderman told me we will need,) due to projected tax shortfall in 08.
To that end, I would like to propose a Saturday (daytime) "meeting in the park" at an outdoor pavilion to be attended by the Mayor, and the BOA. I know it's summer, and the BOA, and the Mayor have things to do, but, that's why you ran boy's, so step up to the plate and let's get it done!
It's time for serious discussions here, and the sooner the better! I am asking that they come to us with fact's and figures, not "what ifs" so we can all make an informed decision on what we want and need in Crestwood!
By the way, I will be sending a copy of this entire thread to each member of the Board, and Mayor Robinson, and I will advise you of any, and all responses (or lack there of!)
Tom Ford
Tom,
Do you have dual personalities or something? You sure do like to flip-flop.
9:41 AM blogger: Fine, you can become a blind "sheeple" tossing in the towel any time you feel like it, but I will continue to evaluate, change my mind (if needed) and comment!
If your not happy with my remarks, don't read them, it's simple!
Tom Ford
9:31 Assessments are not controlled by Crestwood. So you are saying that because our assessments are higher, Crestwood has no right to ask for a higher tax rate. Like I said, you will punish Crestwood, because your assessments, not controlled by Crestwood, go up. Sure cut off your nose to spite your face. That's what you are doing. Makes no sense to me. In the end, we will all suffer and believe me, your assessments on your homes will also "go down". But you'll be happy, won't you.
10:11 Wait a minute. You stated your case; now I have a right to dispute it. What facts do you have to back your comments? You expect an awful lot from me. It doesn't take too much forethought to see that the city can't survive on the mere pitence that sustained us years ago. It seems that when the County or State tells you that your taxes are going up, you find a way to pay for them. But since this tax increase is voted on, well, you want to punish Crestwood because of all the other taxes you pay.
Mox Nix to me! I stated what I thought. If you don't like it, no skin off my nose. Just giving my opinion.
If you think that Crestwood can survive on the tax rate we have now, you are the one in dreamland. All you have to do is look around you to see it ain't going to happen. And if it doesn't happen, you will be first in line to complain about cutting services. Wait until we become part of the County and see how long you will wait for service.
I love the services in Crestwood, and I have friends who live in unicorporated St. Louis county who love their services too. So your attempt to scare me with St. Louis County may work with others, but won't work with me. Just ask anyone who lives between Gravois and Eddie and Park and see if they want to become part of Crestwood. Or ask someone in Grantwood Village. Go ahead. See what answer you'll get.
True, Crestwood doesn't control assessments, but they reap the awards of increased assessments.
And as far as the one being in "dreamland", I'm grounded in full reality. I see the spending and the excess up in city hall. I see the push for a sales tax holiday in the midst of a campaign for a sales tax increase. I hear that one minute, things are OK, and the next minute, things are not. I also remember the South County Times headline stating "Tax Breaks for Mall; Tax Hike Looms for Citizens"
Where's the accountability?
Where are the hard numbers?
You can talk about cutbacks in services until doomsday, but I'm so damn tired of the city holding that over me everytime a tax increase is proposed.
12:08 Well good for you, you have all the answers. Scare tactics? I don't pursue "scare tactics" sir or madame.
I am just another person, giving another opinion. If you don't like it, too bad! I don't agree with your opinion either. Vote how you feel. That's what you should do and that is exactly what I will do.
Since you seem to know it all, I think enough have been said. But "scare tactics"? No, it's just how I see things, that's all.
If you win and we have no new taxes in Crestwood, you may very well see Crestwood going to St. Louis County and they will show you how they do things there. But just don't except better than you already have. There is no perfect anything.
If we go County, you won't have to pick on Crestwood anymore, but down the line, there will still be more taxes to pay. You think the County is going to not impose a tax increase someday. You are in dreamland. Just because it won't happen now, doesn't mean the County couldn't lift up it's ugly head and tax you later.
Just thought you would want to know.
Thank God for the 14.5 million Police Palace! Do you realize if we had not extended the Sunset on the Capital Improvements sale tax back when we did, the tax would been gone by now and how much more our budget would be in the red for the lack of it?
"If we go County, you won't have to pick on Crestwood anymore, but down the line, there will still be more taxes to pay."
I really don't pick on Crestwood. It picks on me about once every two years when it wants a tax increase. I never said that I have all the answers. I don't. But this administration and board doesn't either, and until they provide some, I'm very hesitant to vote on any type of tax increase.
Well folks I wouldn't worry about "going County," I do not see that ever happening!
I do however understand that the City will re-do the City Hall parking lot this summer to the tune of $632,000.00! In case your wondering where that will come from, it's part of the TIF, TDD, CID deal with Kohl's, and the private pool.
So far, so good, but I am told that the burning question asked by the new Board president (Mr. Pickle) at the last meeting was "will this effect the pool?"
Well Chris, who cares? Your group never seems to be worried when you fill up the parking lot, and employees of the Police and Fire Department's have to park elsewhere, or when you fill the City dumpster so it smells to high heaven!
By the way, wasn't it a requirement of the CUP that you have your own dumpster, with a concrete wall? Pray tell, when are you going to do that?
Tom Ford
3:14 Well the city must not have asked for a tax increase every two years or the rate wouldn't be as low as it is, would it?
You are the one who wants all the facts and figures but you still don't know that if we had a tax increase every two years - let see, I have been here 30 years so that would mean we have had 15 tax increases in the last 30 years. NOT!
Who thinks it would be OK to be part of the County? Remember when Mr. Westfall wanted to change the sales tax distribution years ago so we had to give a portion of our sales tax to bedroom communities.
He ram rodded that right through and who got the biggest windfall - the county.
So those of you who think it is no big deal to be part of the County because you are against a tax increase here in Crestwood, better watch out. The County, once you are part of it, can tax you til the cows come home and there will be no vote to sanction it.
So be careful what you wish for.
"The County, once you are part of it, can tax you til the cows come home and there will be no vote to sanction it."
Crestwood -
Parks and Stormwater tax in 2000 passed
Extension of Capital Improvements tax in 2002 passed
Prop 1 proposed in 2005 not passed
Prop S passed 2006
Various small taxes passed 2007
Another tax increase proposed 2008
Wait a minute, I think the cows are coming home ...
Tom. If you ever stopped and looked. You would see that Crestwood Swim Club does in fact have their own dumpster.
So I guess you'll just have to find something else to complain about now.
Tom,
This is in response to your last post....You constantly make yourself look like a complete idiot! They (the pool people) put in the dumpster a few months back!!!! No, I am not a pool member. I try my hardest to like you because I absolutely believe you want to see the city prosper and move on to a bright future. But some of the things you say (yes, I have heard you speak in person) and write on this site are completely absurd. When was the last time you even went to an BOA meeting? I have not seen you in a while (try at least a year). If you are relying totally on your "cub reporters" for your info then I think I would fire them if I were you. I appreciate your patriotism, your time served defending this country, and the job you did raising a brave son who lays his life on the line for this fair city, but you you need to get a F'ing clue my man!!!! You make yourself out to be the village idiot constantly with your flip-flopping and mis-information among other things! Just when I start to like you and understand you, you totally blow my mind with your complete and utter supidity. Un-F'ing believable!
6:52 No, the cows have not come home. You speak of taxes and start in the year of 2002. What you state are not property tax increases. You start speeling off about taxes beginning 2002; what about our taxes all the years prior to 2002? HuH?
All those years we depended on sales tax to do everything. We thought it would last forever. Now we are broke because nobody worried about a "raining day". So, while you were busy enjoying all those years of the lowest property tax in the County, you didn't care about the future then, did you? And neither did your elected officials because they were all too busy enjoying the "perks" of sales tax. Well no man lives on sales tax alone. Cows or not, you do the math.
9:26
You miss a point in your support of increasing our property tax, AGAIN. Do you believe any of our elected officals know how much they need and when? Read their statements in the papers over the last 30 days. It would seem to me that none of them are sure how much they need or even if they relly need an increase, but they know one thing, an increase will make their job easier, so they want it.
"an increase will make their job easier, so they want it."
Bingo!
6:36 PM, June 01, 2008-
I stand corrected. But in recent years, Crestwood has gone to the voters on average once every two years and asked them for a tax increase.
9:26 AM, June 02, 2008-
I believe the bond issue in 2005 would have been an increase on property taxes. Prop S was a sunseted increase on property taxes. This tax coming up will practically double property taxes. True, Crestwood has lived off of sales taxes, but the sales taxes are some of the highest in St. Louis County. Don't forget utility taxes either. As far as doing the math, did the board and mayor do the math?
9:26 PM blogger: Gee I guess we will have to agree to disagree!
The next time you see me will you stop and say hello? I hope so.
Remember, this is a blog, I get to say what I want to, and so do you unless you use nasty words (you came close that time!)
All that said, I like your passion, and I welcome your comments as I am sure others do as well.
So write on oh denizen of the anonymous, we look forward to your ideas!
Tom Ford
OK I know what you are saying and I appreciate your comments.
But let me just say a few things. I realize that we cannot change the past, but Hell's bells, it angers me that all of the people who are city officials now, are taking the entire blame - suffering for the sins of those who had the opportunity for the last 30 years to not spend every dime of sales tax money, but they did it anyway.
All those years, we had more money than sense. You cannot totally blame this board for the mistakes that were made over and over again for many years that caused us to be where we are today. Bad spending has an accumulative effect especially if you don't replace it.
Every time we had a chance to redeem ourselves, everybody was too busy running for office to see that our money was going down the drain. Everybody was relying on the other guy and now, nobody really knows or understands "whose on first; because I don't know is on second and Who cares is on third".
I am sick of it too, but nothing from nothing equals nothing. And it makes no difference anymore who did what because we are broke and I believe that.
Stop and look at all the money that was spent paying CASH for a community center. Why! Nobody wanted to float a bond issue that's why!!!!! Every brick, tons of concrete, ballfield lighting, and hundreds of thousands of dollars (check out the board of aldermen minutes) were paid out. Every bill was OK'd to be paid by the board unanimously at every board of aldermen meeting. I should know cause I did the minutes of all the meetings.
Streets and sidewalks were being replaced with this lavish replacement program. Many were not even scheduled to be done, and "many" were in fine shape but were redone anyway. Why? To appease a constituent. So board members could flex their muscles and gain praise. Give me a break!
Nobody batted an eyelash then, and sales tax money was flying out the window as fast as it was flying in. Everybody thought Mayor Joe Vitalis was crazy wanting to float a bond issue for the community center; so instead we paid CASH for everything. Does that make any sense?
All I ever heard for years was how we had no bonded indebtedness. How in the "hey" can anybody use up all of their money, brag about having no bonded indebtedness but think we were not going to have a "rainy day"????
So, therefore, if we have city officials now that you have no confidence in, and if you think that they are liars or don't know what they are talking about, it now comes down to very simple math, when I say do the math - nothing from nothing is nothing. A simple equasion. This just didn't start in the last 4 years, it started long ago and whether or not you want a tax increase or not is for you to decide.
But just make sure that when you get angry at this administration, be sure you give all of the past administrations "equal opportunity" to be chastised.
My mom used to say to me when I wanted to go out the buy something....do you think it grows on trees? Well it don't grow on trees in Crestwood either.
Sandra Grave
Bond issue of 2005 was also had a sunset and it cost a lot less in interest than Pro S's "notes" are costing us.
4:46PM-Yes, I did not remember all the details of the bond issue for 2005. Thanks for the info.
3:22-Sandy, thanks for your input. You make some excellent points. Some of us are just wary because it appears that this administration and board are not positive of what they need. One day we are in the clear, one day we are not.
I do agree with you that living off of sales tax income has had a cumulutive effect...and not a good one. I remember the days when Crestwood paid cash - a new street here and there, sidewalk replacement, etc. And while it's not fair to the current administration, the ball is in their court and they have to turn Crestwood into something lean and efficient - and they have not done that yet. That's my concern, but your points are excellent.
12:40 Blogger
You asked if the Board did the Math? The answer is yes they did and here it is for you to calculate yourself. A budget was approved for 2008 with sales tax revenue budgeted at $6,655,598. The 1st quarter sales tax receipts were $1,159,410. Now multiply that times 4 quarters and tell us how short we are of the $6,655,598.
Now if you add in the April sales tax receopts of $614,729 to the 1st quarter numbers and multiply times 3 you will get a little better number but still not good enough to equal our budgeted sales tax revenue. This calculation includes all 3 funds (General, Parks & Stormwater and Capital Improvements).
Now that you have calculated the numbers above you are either $2,017,958 or $1,333,181 short of our budgeted Sales Tax revenue for the year 2008. Therefore, that is why the Board decided on a 35 cent
per hundred increase. Now the question which none of us can answer is what is the rest of the year going to do? And with that question in mind, if we have $4,000,000 in surplus or there abouts, how long will that money last until we have no surplus? And therein is your answer as to why the Board is acting now rather than later. This information was obtained from the BOA meeting where the 35 cent number was determined.
Sandy,
Sorry but you are wrong about every body being too busy running for office. Tom Fagan was not too busy running for office too tell us the truth. He came out said we needed a SunSetted Property Tax increase for bonds that would produce enough money once they were sold to remove all City Debt, and provide a cash reserve to remove the need for a line of credit.
You recall what now Roy said then about the idea? He said he was against the idea because:
1. You can't borrow money to get out of debt (unless it is a debt he supported like in his Prop S Notes debt).
2.He said he wouldn't trust anyone with a million dollar reserve fund it was too much money, that he wouldn't even trust himself with that amount of money.(I agree with him for not trusting himself with a large amount of money, after seeing how he has allowed our cash reserves of 6 million as reported last fall, disappear)
3.Wasn't Roy an Alderman back in the day when every one was to busy running for office to watch over the City's money like you saw while taking the BOA meeting minutes?
No I don't blame this current group of aldermen except for their lack of spin to stand up and run the City like they were supposed to do, but I do lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Roy who did the above and refused to allow the BOA to provide for a plan B in order to prevent a tax increase on the April ballot which he was afraid would bring someone out to run against him.
5:00 PM, June 02, 2008
How come no action was taken earlier? ...before the election?
The BOA and mayor had to know or give it a good guess that sales tax revenue would decline the way Crestwood Plaza (Court) is going. The mayor was stubborn in his insistence of no tax increase prior to the election. All of a sudden, one month after the election, he wants a tax increase.
Also, when will the numbers be known for property tax income for 2007? I heard that number was up in the air on account of reassessment challenges?
how about the release of the end of year 2007 audit? When can we see that, after the election?
Another good question!
5:00 So sorry to make this so long.
I thank you very much for your input on my comments. I also very much appreciate your sincerity, kindness and honesty.
I am not surprised that Tom Fagan was one who knew that we needed to do something about fiscal responsibility and understood our lax in sales tax revenues. I was always in Tom's corner most of my many years in Crestwood. I knew him and liked him very much. I so very much enjoyed speaking with him and thought he was a smart young man.
However, as much as I looked for assurance and guidance from Tom, when he ran for election, and as much as I was confident and sure that he was smart enough to understand the city's financial burden, he did something that caused me to pause and ponder his political platform. I have since written to Tom explaining the same.
When Tom stated at a public meeting that he was going to give the responsibility of police chief and city administrator to Don Greer, giving one man all that power, I stopped dead in my tracks.
I am extremely sorry if no one else shares my feelings about this. But I thought it was a very bad decision.
I sincerely believe that the reason why Tom lost the election wasn't because of Roy, but because he was willing to allow one man the power and control over two big positions whose hidden agenda was to be city administrator from his first day at Crestwood. Quoted to me by Fire Chief Bill Kramer and retired Police Chief Mel Loyd.
So I did my own investigation on Don Greer. I like finding out things on my own. Both Chief Kramer and Chief Loyd just added fuel to my fire.
I found out how he mismanaged funds in Wood River, and I also spoke to several people who were on the board when he was there. It took Wood River over two years to get everything straightened out. It was verified by their local newspaper. Also much to Pat Killoren's dismay, Don Greer's past was not checked out by Crestwood like it was suppose to be.
So I guess you can blame some things on Roy and how politicians go about their campaigns, and do and say things. Just look at the Democratic candidates for example. But in my heart of hearts, I just know to this day, that if Tom Fagan would have been elected, he trusted Don Greer so much, appointing him to two big jobs in the city, that with Greer's big egocentric ways, he would have totally ruined this City. That's the way I see it and I have had 30 years to watch, and see, and hear.
Greer's demoting me after 30 years with the city on February 14th, 2002 wasn't as hard to take as how he did it.
According to Civil Service, he was suppose to put it in writing; but Don Greer wasn't going to put anything in writing to incriminate himself. He told me "this is Don's World Now and I am in command slamming his hand on his desk with all fire and fury. Didn't need to do that. I have worked everywhere in that building and I am not so proud that I wouldn't have accepted another position; I only had 18 more months before I retired anyway.
Don Greer wanted his own people; puppets who did what they were commanded to do. If you were good little boys and girls, you got raises and promotions. I knew too much and would be asking too many questions and that would have never worked. (Those of you who want to put your two cents in about my demotion go ahead cause I have heard it all and you can't hurt me anymore!)
I wanted to tell Tom what I found, but at a meeting at City Hall, he was so adamant about Greer serving two very important jobs with the city that it would have made no difference what I said.
Sadly, if Tom knew about Crestwood's financial status, had he won the election, I guarantee you that Don Greer, the master manipulator, would have gotten by with everything but murder just like he did in his other job.
Tom Fagan was smitten with Greer, just like most of us. But I would hear Greer in Kent's office threaten to quit if he didn't get money for this and that. Don was for Don Period!
Don Greer threatened he would fire me if I didn't take the demotion. However, there was no need to be so deliberately hateful or use leverage to get me to accept the demotion. Those words were not necessary at all.
Therefore, I can only say that maybe there were lots of people including Tom that knew we were in trouble financially, but when Don Greer was ready to support a 14 million dollar police facility, it didn't seem to me that anybody knew that we were broke and when you are broke, you don't go out and mastermind any big enterprise, no matter what it is. You wait because it always ends up costing more and unanticipated monies would need to be encumbered.
Thanks again for your comments. I just hope you will give me the same consideration.
Sandy Grave
Sandy Grave
Tom has gone on rcord to say that "Don was wrong" and this was " a big mistake to run for office."
Thanks for sharing Sandy. For the longest time I had that feeling in my gut that Crestwood's best interests were not being represented and this confirms it.
That's why I did not support Tom. He never came out against the fiefdom.
Also, folks need to remember that anyone can be an alderman or mayor. We might have 1 elected official who has experience with complex finances.
9:54 PM Thanks for getting back to me after my long speel. All I ever wanted to hear was that Tom knew that Greer was wrong. I am glad and proud that he said it because that's a man who isn't afraid to tell it like it is. Nothing more needs to be said.
Again, thanks for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
9:58 PM Thanks for your comments.
Crestwood has a City Administrator form of government and, as such, the day to day operations of a city are what he/she is hired to do. That's a huge job.
But the mayor and aldermen deeply depend on that person for input because most city officials have a day job, plus the added stress of keeping an eye on the welfare of "X" amount of constituents.
I think it is one of the most difficult jobs in city government. The City Administrator's greatest attribute has to be communication with the mayor and board. The mayor and board need to be "spoon fed" all communications (everything), and not just some things; not just what they feel should be said and not information that is dubious by nature to self serve what they want. Don Greer filled city officials with half truths, lies and chose his words carefully to first service his own ambitions while throwing a bone here and there for the City as a camophlage.
If the board of aldermen and the mayor put their faith in a CA who does not give them proper information, it is very difficult for them to acquire information on their own.
We need to find a good one; one that can communicate with the mayor, board, city dept. heads and employees. It can be done but that person has to be sqeaky clean, honest, fair and above all use common sense. That is the stuff needed in Crestwood or in any city.
We can only win when everybody has the same goals; otherwise we will always be in chaos.
Sandy Grave
Roger Anderson's letter to the editor of the South County Journal about the tax increase, can be found at this site:
southcountyjournal.stltoday.com/articles/2008/06/04/opinions/sj2tn20080603-0604ssj-andersonlett0.ii1.txt
wonder if it will work to paste it here, it really is worth reading.
Tuesday, June 3, 2008 2:32 PM CDT
To the editor:
One month after the mayoral election, Crestwood's mayor announced that a property tax increase with a sunset date will be needed to get the city through a period of decreased tax revenue and the redevelopment phase of Crestwood Plaza. But little talk of a tax increase was heard before the election.
While he announced the tax increase proposal at a town hall meeting, he also emphasized that possibly all of the available tax incentive tools will be needed to rehab the mall, although the new owners purchased it at a bargain price of $17.5 million. It should be noted that Westfield purchased the mall ten years ago for $99.3 million. So the new owners of the mall may see some tax assistance while residents may see a tax hike.According to statements made by our mayor prior to the election, a tax hike was not on his agenda. In fact it appeared the city's finances were sound as it spent a lot of money with various projects and new equipment.
So what is the bottom line? It seems to change from time to time.
Crestwood's administration has little idea of the future, just as they had little idea of the past. As they spend and spend and especially tax and tax, I'm reminded of what Winston Churchill said, "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
So when it comes to Crestwood and its government, what is certain is uncertainty.
Roger Anderson
Crestwood
Hay, it worked!!
10:20 Terrific! Roger Anderson has been ranting and raving about everything since the beginning of time. If every decision on every city issue Roger makes is perfect to the point that he NEVER IS WRONG, why didn't he give us the benefit of his claravoyance and run for office?
Roger Anderson is known for mouthing off. State the issue and he has an opinion. That's why now, as much as he thinks he again has all the answers, to me, he is just doing what he does best, shooting off his mouth.
If only we were all so "perfect". Too bad that Roy said "no taxes" too hastily cause now, many of those who never wanted him to be mayor in the first place, can ram it down his throat. And also those who think we can survive as a City on very little new taxes compared to the cost of living as it now stands are dreaming.
Oh Yes, Roy did that on purpose to get votes. I cannot believe that anyone could be so stupid as to vote anybody in office on that one thing. You have seen how often our Presidents have said lots of things and have changed their minds too. Have they all been bad?Once you step into a job, many things are not what they seemed. You cannot begin to understand government standing on the outside. Many years have come and gone since Roy was an aldermen.
But, Oh Well, let's just keep hammering on this one thing when everyone should know that Crestwood made lots of mistakes leading up to this. Those of you who want to look at only the present are one dimensional. We should all know that things don't just happen. Time has to be factored in.
People don't get lung cancer overnight by smoking one cigarette. People don't just up and die of sickess that just shows up one day. Something in their past that was not detected made it happen.
We were never told that we cannot survive on sales tax alone. In the good years, nobody told us and nobody cared. Now we are suffering and nobody wants to pay for the mistakes out of their own pockets.
If your money is going into your gas tank these days, and what you paid years ago you are now paying double for, why is it any different for the city coffers? You have already been alerted about all the money that was spent by previous administrations. And there are only so many cuts to be cut. Just because you say, those cuts are not enough, again, you are not there and you are also making judgements that are wrong; just as you are accusing the mayor of doing.
Crestwood will have to do what other cities have done. Stop playing the blame game and know that there is plenty of blame to go around that led up to this mess. And you either pay for it or we can all suffer the consequences down the road. Let's face it, you will never really trust anyone no matter who is in office when they speak of new taxes. You will find something wrong, because you don't want to pay new taxes. If there is any way, you can fight against it, no matter what or who is in charge, you will do it. But that is wrong and you will pay for it in loss of services and loss of money when you sell your homes. Period. No Need to get upset with me, that's just how I feel about it.
That is an interesting point,one month AFTER the election the mayor changes his mind about raising taxes
11:30 OK so it's interesting. You do as everyone does, believe what you want to believe. Next time around, we will have a different mayor I am sure. If he is your choice, I am sure he will be infallible. If he again is not your choice, do what you do best, find something you don't like about him and run it into the ground.
4:10 sourer grapes??
9:57, Mr. Anderson was one of the major forces behind the stopping of the Police Palace and the action the city wanted to take against the Creston Center. Now that he has pointed out the obvious in his letter about your mayor, you are having a major melt down. Face it Roy set this one perfect as has been stated before.
I'll never forget Carol Casey's letter calling Roy the new leader riding into town wearing a white hat. HA HA, white hat indeed.
And yes, I am really enjoying watch this unfold at Roy's expense, he bought it on his self.
There are many positions taken by many residents regarding, "shall we or shall we not have a property tax increase".
All I know is that I want to keep our police and fire departments and if that's what it takes, so be it.
I feel that we are very lucky to have our own. I am proud of them and feel safe knowing that we have them close at hand.
I have spent 30 years placing thank you's in the personnel files of many of the police officers and firefighter/paramedics from people whose lives have been saved by their quick and fervent assistance.
You may not realize it, but as far as property taxes are concerned, sooner or later they will go up anyway whether you like it or not.
Things change all the time. You will never be able to get around it.
If we end up being part of the County, you might think you are going to get off without paying more tax, but stop kidding yourself. Somewhere down the line, the big T word will show up at your door. If that happens, and I feel it will, you will have sacrificed possibly loosing our public safety people to inevitably end up paying more taxes anyway.
I just want to keep what we have. I think we are lucky to have a wonderful police and fire department and I give them credit and respect for doing a job that most of us wouldn't want to cope with.
If I get sick or if I am in danger, the Crestwood Police Department and Crestwood Fire Department will be there for me and for you, sooner and quicker.
On the other hand, if we loose them, to the victor goes the spoils. To me, it is too much of a price to pay not to keep what we have. The County has problems too; and by shear population alone, we would never be able to have a quicker response time from County in case of emergencies.
If you have sick and elderly people who are at risk of death, or if there are thefts and robberies in your neighborhoods, or have other life and death issues, I guarantee you that the Crestwood Fire Department and/or Police Department will know you by name. They watch your children coming home from school and remember which homes have persons that are prone to sickness or death. That is what is great about living in a smaller community.
I have seen both of these departments operate first hand and my money is on them.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
4:42 Horray for you. Have Mr.
Anderson run for mayor next time. I am glad he didn't want the police palace. But if he is so darn smart, ask him how he can change zero dollars into money to keep the city operating? Does he have a plan or is he a "miracle worker"? Last time I checked, there was only one who performed miracles!!!
If he has a plan, other than a tax increase, I am all ears. Mr. Anderson has a right to his opinion, but I say that this city better wake up and realize that whether or not we approved this proposition or that tax increase or what we pay on utility taxes or any other tax, we cannot make it on the "property tax" we are paying now because the cost of living says so.
That's my view and I have a right to it, just as you have your view.
I like our Fire and Police Departments too. They have given and still give our community great service.
However, I will not be a doormat when it comes to accountability. Every time a tax increase is proposed, we are hit over the head with our police and fire. No more.
If the city wants to hold this over my head, they can. That has been their pattern on every tax increase. But this time it will not work with me.
A city is an organization just like anything else. In times of good and bad, it has to operate within its means. I have to operate within my budget. So should the city.
For several years, Crestwood Plaza was a question mark. But what did the city do? It spent. It spent money on bridges, police cars, consultants. Maybe, just maybe if it did less spending and more saving, it would be more stable.
I was just about to seriously consider a yes for the tax increase. Then I learned the private Crestwood Swim Club does not pay a usage share of the use of the city hall parking lot. If that was some sort of agreement, it was certainly a well kept secret from voters. Guess they are right, that pool had lots of help from pool members serving and voting on the Planning and Zoning Board and the Board of Aldermen. So, soon as these kind of details are explained to me, I will continue to think that there are indeed more places to find money, one being sharing the total cost of the parking lot. This is exactly the kind of shadyness that colors and destroys resident faith in city government and their steady need for a tax increase.
5:10 We cannot do anything about what happened in the past; however, the past is part of what we are all suffering for now.
This is where we live and if we don't want to help restore Crestwood, we will loose Crestwood cutting off our noses to spite our faces. And we will pay the price for it too.
The longer Crestwood's finances stay this bad, the more Crestwood will end up cutting services and our properties will be worth nadda.
And if you don't care what happens to where you live, you won't have to worry about what you call "scare tactics" cause you will get exactly what you are not willing to pay for. Thus far, we haven't had to do that; but with no money, the bad times will come. Wait and see!
If this tax increase doesn't pass, you will have plenty of time to see it for yourself and you will be sorry; I promise you, you will be real sorry. Why?
Because at the present time, you think that you will still have everything you need and nothing will change no matter what happens, but things will change for the worst when more and more services are cut, and all the good employees leave for better jobs. The domino effect will show you that if you don't try to pay more for what you have, everyone will suffer for it.
Right now, you have no idea how bad things could get. You have no clue and don't even know what a real crisis is yet. Just wait!
All you have to do is remember what we are facing Country-wide in the United States to know that things are tough all over. So we are not only being hit with a bad financial situation in our little town, we have a double whammy as to the state of the Country. And you don't think that it's going to contribute to an already severe crisis in Crestwood?
All you naysayers will live to regret your negativism. You can blame your attitude on this mayor or that mayor or this deal or that deal. You all throw your hands up in the air like you have just had to endure one black cloud after another in Crestwood, but Crestwood has been good to you.
You can keep carrying on with your foolishness saying Crestwood is this or that, shoveling your negative explatives, or that our officials are blah and blah! But you know exactly what you are doing, don't you?
The fact is you really don't care about the circumstances, you just don't want to pay taxes good or bad. The fact is you wouldn't want to pay taxes even if all of your questions and misgivings were explained. You are like so many others that are as afraid of taxes as people are afraid of dread diseases. To some, no tax is a good tax; every tax is a scam and that's what is at the helm of all of your complaining.
In all actuality, I feel that the amount they are placing on the ballot really isn't going to be enough but knowing people like you, making it more would be cause for a vigilante group.
I would pay more property tax to keep my City. Sorry you don't agree.
7:40 Here we go again with the doggone pool. I am not a pool member and have never been. I have never been a great fan of the pool either.
That said, however, I definitely will not base an important issue like a tax increase on the pool.
The city is drowning here, and just because somebody back then made a stupid deal (maybe) with the swim club, can't keep me from trying to save my city.
People talk, you know!!! Or maybe you don't know. You cannot believe everybody's tripe.
Facts are facts. People did not always make the right decisions in the past. So do we reward their mistakes by keeping us in the stew, or do we forge ahead so we can all get our city back?
You deny the city an increase in property tax, you deny yourself too.
7:41 PM, June 05, 2008 "The fact is you really don't care about the circumstances, you just don't want to pay taxes good or bad. The fact is you wouldn't want to pay taxes even if all of your questions and misgivings were explained."
HOW DARE YOU! You know absolutely NOTHING about me or about what I want when it comes to my local government. If you want to sit on your high horse and judge people, do it to someone else. It seems it is not above you to answer an argument with an insult.
Thank you Roy, for bringing Crestwood back.
Yeah, thanks Roy! And thanks to Forrest Miller for pointing that out to us! His stunning observation gives me great faith in the Economic Development Commission.
Friar Tucks is open. Largest beverage store in Missouri is right here in Crestwood. Woohoo!
I think we all know who is the one having meetings and plugging the tax increase. But please stop lecturing, too. People have a right to ask questions and be skeptical and come to conclusions. But where are the answers. Lots of questions on this blog, no answers. So ladybug. How 'bout some answers.
By the way, do we have to pay for the gas for chiefs who live in the outback to drive to work? At almost $4 this can get expensive.
8:04 But it's OK for you to sit on your high horse and judge people right?
There is no difference between what I say and what you say except we are on opposite sides.
You keep making comments and opinions which is OK with me. Now allow me the same privilege.
The 'same privilege'? What in the world are you talking about?
"There is no difference between what I say and what you say except we are on opposite sides." Think again ... wow!
I'll say it again, you know absolutely NOTHING about me or about what I want when it comes to my local government.
I have heard several people here say they are not going to be rattled by "scare tactics" or that "scare tactics" won't be tolerated this time around.
Do you really think stating that we could lose our fire department or police department if we don't have the money to pay for them is just a way to get voters to say yes?
Let's look at it from another position. If you own a house and don't pay your mortgage, the bank calls and says "pay up or we are going to take your home", if you don't make car payments, the bank will call and say "pay up or we are going to take back your car". Are these scare tactics? No, they are a fact of life.
People on this very blog complain that the BOA saw this coming and should have said something earlier. But when the BOA does go public with information it becomes "Scare Tactics".
In retrospect, every citizen on this blog has seen what has been going on at the mall for years and yet noone has shown up at the BOA meetings and said put a Property tax increase on the ballot.
Finally, I will say that if you want a say in the services you receive then say so in August.
I understand the Mayor Vetoed the boards recommendation to opt out of the "Sales Tax Holiday"
12:08 am I think it's time for you to go to bed now instead of getting your blood pressure up.
You are right, I don't know anything about you other than your comments; and you know nothing about me either. So calm down and take a deep breath.
Personally, I think you should stop looking for a fight with me.
I am sorry you feel the need to continue with your rubbish. My comments are not the bible, but neither are yours. We obviously don't see things the same way.
Now say your prayers and go to bed, before you have a stroke.
Speaking of rubbish, from what one of our illustrious bloggers has just suggested, I guess the pro-taxers are going to use scare tactics to push their tax and spend agenda.
While other municipalities are cutting costs and trimming budgets, Crestwood is stuck in the same ole same ole of raising taxes when the going gets rough.
What a shame. I think Crestwood residents deserve better.
If the current administration would be more forth coming regarding the budget vs. actual income/spending, the public would be more receptive to the increase. Over the past 3 years, the numbers have been on a roller coaster ride. Doubt if all accounts were correct. One reason is there has been no stability in the accounting staff. Previous to the past 3 years, financials were provided to the BOA and online monthly. (whether you agreed with the numbers or not) Also, having the mayor himself state he is not a "numbers person" makes me leary to believe the financial situation, since he and Brian Gross are the ones looking at the financial condition of the city.
The board has been told for years to tighten up spending. Don't think they listened. Crestwood residents unsure of a tax increase and unsure of city leadership.
The fact is the budget could become smaller but that could mean cutting the Fire and Police budget. While the the Police do not have a Union to resist this, that is not the case with the Fire Dept. They are the Dept. that will not allow any cuts or even talk of cuts and they do with scare tactics. That is typical of Fire Fighters Unions.
Also, until the BOA review the selling of assets like Crestwood park, I don't believe they have done enough to ask us for another tax increase.
Vote NO.
I do know that over 2 years ago several suggestions were made to sell city property and it never even made a BOA adgenda.
Of course since the Firefighters were the main supporters of the current mayor, I doubt if any cuts will be made to that department.
Another point, I think cuts can be made without touching police and fire.
Does anyone know if the Robinson went ahead with his veto?
Then the Mayor is in the Firefighters Union and we better get used to tax increases to "keep our services" without any examination of the real needs of the City.
You are all getting out of hand.
You are all sounding like a bunch women at a gossip session. And the more you talk, the more you do nothing but speculate.
All I know is that everybody has a chance to say yes or no at the polls on the tax issue.
I only know one thing, if this blog lasts long enough to see who gets to be mayor next, the ramblings may be on a different subject, but the name calling and the speculation and the inuendos will never end.
New people, different day but the comments will still all sound the same. Nothing will make everyone stop bitching and be happy. There will always be something wrong with someone, or an official that they don't like but others do, and so on and so forth.
I wouldn't want to be a city official for all the tea in china.
So...it's not OK if we complain but it's OK if you complain about us complaining? Is that your complaint?
Do you really think you would get answers at a BOA meeting? Duh, doubt it! I doubt you would even get answers to questions even if they were submitted in writing!
The BOA can only work with the data received from the mayor and the CA. I think that in itself cripples the BOA, considering where the information is coming from, if any. Or should I say creditable information. Seems the finances of the city are a moving target. No continuity in the numbers. Oh, except for the projections left by J. Tate but I'm sure "they were just guesses"!
As they say here on the blog, remember the past. (some more selective than others)
Don't blame me, I voted for Tom Fagan!
8:55 PM Excuse me! I am talking about speculation and rumor or asking loaded moronic questions to get a "ha ha". Especially when the majority of those questions and comments, have to do with the mayor - boy, then everybody comes out of the woodwork. Nice try to be a comedian but it doesn't solve anything. It just means you belong in the "funny" paper.
Again, I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of any public official in Crestwood right now. People just keep critiquing and criticizing them when you are on the outside looking in.
That's all I meant.
I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of any public official in Crestwood right now either! First, who knows if they would fit me. Second, I take a wide size. And third, I like to wear comfortable shoes!
11:56 am Good point. Love it.
Interesting thought just occurred to me regarding the current BOA's actions as they relate to the Mayor. Do you think any of the old Aldermen who were term limited out would have stood still for one moment if the Mayor told them like he did the current BOA that he wouldnt allow any talk about tax increase or possible short fall in the budget?
Maybe that is why no one wants to run for office in Crestwood.
5:18 PM blogger: Some (not all) of the past Alderman would have started a major revolt if this happened then!
But this is now, and how do we get these guys to stand up for themselves?
I don't know about you, but I am getting disgusted with the definite lack of leadership, and the lack of elected officials who will stand up for what they believe!
I am at a point where I don't care whose "feathers are ruffled," I want to see someone stop the madness that has become "tax and spend!"
Tom Ford
8:19 AM, June 06, 2008
I showed up at meetings and talked to several aldermen. I told them to control spending. They didn't listen.
But please, continue with the scare tactics. They are quite entertaining!
You say "scare tactics", I say "Truth or Consequences" or cutting off your nose to spite your face is more like it.
And you shall see the consequences of your negative attitude when you vote NO. To the victor goes the spoils.
"To the victor goes the spoils." Who is fighting and what would be a victory in your mind, another tax increase without any proof to support the need for it?
This bunch up at City Hall haven't proven to me that they need another tax increase. I just looked at the audit for 2007 (it's on the City website) and based on that I can't see where the City is running out of money.
If it was, why would the Mayor veto the action taken by the Board to not take a Sales Tax Holiday in August? The Mayor by his veto and actions is saying the City doesnt need the money from sales tax but we better increase our property tax or ELSE!
Are you going to the Mayors picnic, who is paying for that the Mayor or the City?
3:10 Don't know of any picnic and don't care about it. I have a suggestion. Picket the picnic! Call the news and let your actions speak louder than your words - if that's possible. Tell Elliot Davis, "we paid for it".
Otherwise, vote how you feel and let's be done with this. It's not worth me wasting my time anymore on this subject. You are not alone in the way you feel; so let's call it quits cause I am up to my eyeballs with it.
If the tax increase doesn't go through, I just hope that we can make things work out so that we can keep what we have. Enough said!
Thanks for your time.
1:19 PM, June 10, 2008 - I still say "scare tactics" and they are entertaining, or better yet, fuel for the fire to stop the tax increase...
3:27 can you provide the proof that the City needs the tax increase?
How can this not be worth your time, it is your money if you live in Crestwood isn't it?
Why should I or anyone else call it quits, is it because you want to believe the Mayor so much that you cant face the facts of what he is doing? I really don't understand your position.
5:13 PM
Maybe I can answer your question and then again, maybe not.
I worked for Crestwood for over 30 years. In that time, I have seen several administrations handle the city's finances.
I can tell you for sure that getting into this mess, started years ago and you cannot blame all of it on this administration or the last administration. Many of these problems had their origin long ago, but nobody addressed them and let things slide by.
I am not and will not try to change anybody's mind about how they will vote on the tax increase. But I will tell you that we are in a money crisis now and if you want to call it, "scare tactics", OK fine. But I say that things have occurred over 30 years that points to bad decisions that started long ago.
I have read and done the minutes of board meetings for years, and I have worked for and with several mayors and city administrators as well as finance officers. As such, I can attest to the fact that in the late 70's, 80's, 90's and in the first three years of the 21st century, benign mistakes became big mistakes.
For instance, back when we were first all fired up about a new community center. Large sums of money were doled out for many things on that one project without batting an eye at the cost. We paid as we built it, and we paid plenty, sanctioned by board members at every meeting.
Instituting a street and sidewalk program was another disaster. Many times funds were misused and the elected officials thought nothing of it. I know cause I heard it from the residents who would call in and complain why this street was done, when there's was so much worse. And most of the time, they were right if you did a comparison. Residents on my own street were asking me why our street and sidewalks were being re-done when there was nothing wrong with them. Paving done in house and by contracts cost big bucks. Big dollars to repair streets and sidewalks, many still in good shape. Wow! If you knew an aldermen....well....anyhow.....
Nobody ever spoke about saving for a crisis. We had money and all I ever heard from everyone including mayors and board members was that we had "no bonded indebtedness". Everything was paid for, etc. etc. And, as long as the money from sales tax was high, which it was, much spending was done and many more critical errors were made.
You want specifics, well I have given you a couple; you want more, read the minutes of the board meetings and you will understand.
And now the money that paid for everything or the cash cow as some would call it, has gone on a diet. And everybody wants to blame only a few people for what lots of mayors and board members did wrong, for a long, long time.
Somebody should have known something was wrong. Like, for example, when the board members settled for a second-hand pumper for our fire department instead of a new one. Dr. LaBore told me it was because we got a "good deal". Had we not been strapped for money, we wouldn't be looking at a second-hand fire truck, would we? Not good enough, Dr. LaBore.
Another cruncher! For many, many years, while cities were increasing property taxes more and more, we were real smug cause we had the lowest property tax rate and still do. Then Mr. Buzz Westfall and others felt that we should share our sales tax, with those cities who chose to be "bedroom communities" whose taxes were based on a Per Capita formula. Years prior, cities elected to make their choice of either being a point of sale city or bedroom community. And sure enough, now the point of sale cities were being forced to "share" our sales tax monies with the bedroom communities.
Now that is my take on why we are in this mess. We should have been more frugal yes, but it should have started years ago. Just talking about property taxes in Crestwood, not proposition this or that, just property tax, we have been fortunate that it has been so low, even with the increase not too long ago.
So I really don't buy the scare tactic thingy going around; but that's just the way I see it.
I love our services and if you still think that it is a scare tactic to say we might loose our police and fire, I disagree. But I respect your right to say it.
If it takes me paying a little more, I will be happy to do it. But my reasons are all mentioned above and I have had a long time to look at this bigger picture.
Hope you don't get angry with me, cause my words are not meant to anger anyone.
Sandra Grave
Not angry at all with you Sandy, but while I do not doubt a word of what you wrote, nothing yet has explained to me why we need a property tax increase.
I looked at the 2007 audit and we are way over in the black. Where and why is there a need? One has not been explained or shown to me using the numbers from the audited books.
Thanks for your comment. I do understand what you are saying and appreciate your words.
Sandra Grave
Post a Comment
<< Home