For what it's worth I have been contacted and asked if I would review my position on the tax increase!
As we all know there are two sides to every discussion, and I am more than willing to look at the other side here, in case they have a point.
To that end I am going to meet with Mayor Robinson on Friday afternoon to take a look at parts of the puzzle that I (and we,) may not have seen.
I will give all of you my personal feelings (on the increase) when I emerge from the meeting, as I think I will understand the tax proponents perspective a bit better then.
POST MEETING NOTES: I did spend 45 minutes with mayor Robinson today, and I am going to post here some numbers given to me by him reference the three day "sales tax holiday."
actual 2007 tax revenue: $7,180,363.00
actual August 2007 STR: $927,225.00
average daily STR (AUG): $ 29.910.49
3 day STR (Aug.-2007): $89,731.46
% of total STR in 2007: 1.25%
I understand (from him) that he felt these three days would bring new shoppers into Crestwood, and once here they would return. If that does happen, and our retailers can retain them it is worth the 1.25% gamble. At any rate his decision is grounded in a desire to bring new customers to Crestwood, and now that I understand that, I may well have done the same thing.
We discussed many things, not the least of which was the reorganization of the Police Department which I was told has saved $76,000 in total budget expenditure. Crestwood Courts will be discussed at the June 24th meeting, and it will be one of the finest developments in St. Louis when it's completed! That's the good news, the bad news is that the developers are going to want a TIF, TDD, CID to make this happen. How much, I have no idea!
I asked him point blank if we could survive minus the tax increase (.35 over 6 years,)and he told me that we now depend on our businesses to the tune of 52%! Now IF we fall below that number, say 47% there will be a need for additional revenue from somewhere (bank loan,) or tax increase?
I asked about the six year "sunset" time frame on the tax. It's gone to the County printer, so it's in stone! I asked a "what if question," suppose the revenue was back up in four years, would the Board then "sunset," or reduce the tax, he said this could very well happen as the Priop S tax has been reduced by .2 cents this year. We have some things in our favor, White-cliff will be paid off in 2012, and the Kohl's TIF will depart in 2010, and both of these will bring in additional revenue we aren't seeing now.
Mayor Robinson was very forthcoming in his presentation to me, and he told me that he will be glad to meet with any Crestwood Citizen reference the above at any time he is available. I would like to suggest that each of you take advantage of that offer, and make an appointment (as I did) to talk with him about this tax increase in August, or whatever else may be on your mind. I am going to refrain from making a comment on my feeling's reference the tax increase, as I would like each of you to talk to the Mayor, and your Alderman, and make up your own mind!
Tom Ford
NO. 509
To that end I am going to meet with Mayor Robinson on Friday afternoon to take a look at parts of the puzzle that I (and we,) may not have seen.
I will give all of you my personal feelings (on the increase) when I emerge from the meeting, as I think I will understand the tax proponents perspective a bit better then.
POST MEETING NOTES: I did spend 45 minutes with mayor Robinson today, and I am going to post here some numbers given to me by him reference the three day "sales tax holiday."
actual 2007 tax revenue: $7,180,363.00
actual August 2007 STR: $927,225.00
average daily STR (AUG): $ 29.910.49
3 day STR (Aug.-2007): $89,731.46
% of total STR in 2007: 1.25%
I understand (from him) that he felt these three days would bring new shoppers into Crestwood, and once here they would return. If that does happen, and our retailers can retain them it is worth the 1.25% gamble. At any rate his decision is grounded in a desire to bring new customers to Crestwood, and now that I understand that, I may well have done the same thing.
We discussed many things, not the least of which was the reorganization of the Police Department which I was told has saved $76,000 in total budget expenditure. Crestwood Courts will be discussed at the June 24th meeting, and it will be one of the finest developments in St. Louis when it's completed! That's the good news, the bad news is that the developers are going to want a TIF, TDD, CID to make this happen. How much, I have no idea!
I asked him point blank if we could survive minus the tax increase (.35 over 6 years,)and he told me that we now depend on our businesses to the tune of 52%! Now IF we fall below that number, say 47% there will be a need for additional revenue from somewhere (bank loan,) or tax increase?
I asked about the six year "sunset" time frame on the tax. It's gone to the County printer, so it's in stone! I asked a "what if question," suppose the revenue was back up in four years, would the Board then "sunset," or reduce the tax, he said this could very well happen as the Priop S tax has been reduced by .2 cents this year. We have some things in our favor, White-cliff will be paid off in 2012, and the Kohl's TIF will depart in 2010, and both of these will bring in additional revenue we aren't seeing now.
Mayor Robinson was very forthcoming in his presentation to me, and he told me that he will be glad to meet with any Crestwood Citizen reference the above at any time he is available. I would like to suggest that each of you take advantage of that offer, and make an appointment (as I did) to talk with him about this tax increase in August, or whatever else may be on your mind. I am going to refrain from making a comment on my feeling's reference the tax increase, as I would like each of you to talk to the Mayor, and your Alderman, and make up your own mind!
Tom Ford
NO. 509
posted by Crestwood Independent at 16:10
111 Comments:
I feel a flip flop coming.
Oh yeah!!!!!!! You better believe it.
Meet with the Mayor? He doesn't have the foggiest idea what is going on. You would be better off getting together with the Aldermen. Afterall, the mayor only wanted 25 cents and I think that was just after he said we didn't need a tax increase. Then the aldermen voted for a 35 cent increase. Are you saying he now believes that is the number? Well, it is your time you are wasting. Good Luck
The answers must be contained on one sheet of paper. Ya, think?
TOM,
Ask the Mayor where the millions of dollars we had in cash went since last year. Ask him why we need a property tax increase but he wants a sales tax holiday.
Ask him if he knows how many people are on the fire dept budget payroll (27). Ask him how many people are on the police dept budget payroll (37).
Ask him if he know what the avg cost to the budget is for one of the people who are paid from the fire budget (including the Chief on down to the secy, it is $80,750)
Ask him same about the police ($67,035).
He should know these numbers as they make up 45% of our over all budget and when he ran he said he would be a full time mayor at a part time cost.
While your doing this, keep your hand on your wallet at all times.
Do you have a problem with the police and fire departments? If you do then maybe you should stand up at BOA meeting and speak.
12:27 PM. I agree with 2:02 PM!!!
12:27 PM. Maybe you should speak at a board of aldermen meeting. I also ask you the same question, what's your problem with our police and fire departments???
Am I the only one who has a sense of pride with our public safety people. Oh Yeah! Scare tactics, I remember it now. That's right!
We are using our safety people to scare the wits out of residents to get a tax increase.
Yah Know! I really get tired of people who think that this mayor is somehow swindling the city but never looked at those who are now part of our embarrassing past and who were part of the reason we are in this mess.
Maybe we should put together a written test for this mayor, asking him all kinds of questions or better yet, a test specifically prepared by 12:27 PM, regarding all money, percentages, salaries and anything else he/she feels should be tested.
My only question would be how come none of these questions or dubious misgivings about the City being "swindled" were ever asked when the other mayors were in office or when Don Greer was city administrator???
Nobody asked questions when Greer was bleeding the city with all of his many cop cars, and state of the art computer equipment and much, much more; when he was busy giving promotions to his buddies and demoting others in the police department.
Why was nobody asking questions to those previous mayors and why were they not given a test to see if they qualified to be mayor.
Why was more money flying out of city hall and into the police department's budget, or why were big and better salaries and raises were being given to all of Greer's people including Ms. Madrid?
Where were you, 12:27 PM, when Greer costs the city thousands, like (40,000) in a sexual harrassment lawsuit filed by two female cops against Greer's long-time golfing buddy, his hand-picked Major in the Police Dept. and his all around friend and "skirt chaser"??? How come you let that one slide without asking the mayor at that time why? $40,000 is a lot of money. How come the same Major was not fired by Greer? However, seems you ask a lot from this Mayor???? Are you going to tell me that the mayor at that time, didn't know about it????
Were you not in the loop then, and why were you not so insightful then??????
Say what you wish, and ask what you wish, but you ask questions now, that would have been very pertinent then. Had you found out the answer to those, maybe you wouldn't have to ask your questions to this mayor now!!!!!
defend current administration at all cost...Because there were problems in the past, does that mean we are not allowed to ask questions now?
3:32 PM, June 13, 2008
You got the picture loud and clear.
We went from not needing any money to over doubling our RE taxes!
But you don't have to ask any questions because DG is gone. That makes anything that goes on at city hall ok.
Got it?
2:54 nice try at deflection and control by spin.
1.
45% of our budget is for police and fire, stating that cost does not mean anyone has anything against them.
2.
shouldn't the Mayor know those figures since he is 1/3 of the Ways and Means Committee?
3.
where were you when the questions you list WERE asked of former C/A Greer?
4.
Why do you get your shorts in a bunch when someone points out how much a fire/police man is paid? Shouldn't we know, as it is after all, "our money"?
5.
cant tell what got you more upset, asking Tom to ask the Mayor those questions or the fact that someone asked them at all?
6.
why should anyone go the BOA and ask these questions, Tom is getting the answers for us right here on his blog?
3:41 PM
No. 3. Where was I when questions were asked of Don Greer? The questions I asked on this blog were never asked of Don Greer, where I was. Maybe they were asked and answered in front of you but never me and never made public.
Further, if you know the answers, and I am sure they were all answered in good conscience, why don't you tell us the answers. Why he promoted his buddies, and demoted others in the police department and why he had affairs with three people I know of in that department and got away with all his hanky panky, allowed his favorite Major to sexually harrass two female cops? Why they received compensation for it. Why he got everything he wanted for his department when other departments had to stick to their budget? Yes, I would like to know his feeble answers. Give me a break! Don Greer was "God", he didn't have to explain.
AND NO, I am not saying that this mayor shouldn't be asked questions or be accountable. Every mayor should be. So ask away, but keep in mind Crestwood's past history, cause it does matter today.
If a person has a severe, life threatening illness as an infant or as a young child, is that not to be taken into consideration as he gets older, or does a doctor not have to factor that into his history down the road???
Also, what makes you think that the things that happened more than 5 and 6 years ago are not part of our problems now? Yes, please answer that.
You can call it spinning if that is your way of making the past go away but I am not spinning anything. I am just trying to explain as best I can that asking questions to this mayor is all well and good but don't call it spin when I ask to factor in Crestwood's past history.
Like it or not, problems with money and finances just didn't start with this administration.
Yes, as you say, it is our money so ask as many questions as you wish of the mayor, but my shorts are just fine thank you. How about yours? And why just ask about police and fire; we have several other departments in Crestwood you know. I think that you and others speak of police and fire specifically because you think those two departments, and their necessity, are being used as "scare tactics" to put a tax increase through.
Factor in this or that, ask as many questions as you wish, but if you don't consider the whole picture, than you and others, only want to know answers to part of the problem. And don't ever go to the movies and only see the last half of the story. You may end up with a totally different scanario to what the story really was.
45 % of our budget that's why I ask..
4:35, my calendar shows it to be June 13th, 2008, Don Greer died 2 years ago and left the employment of Crestwood 3 years ago.
Need anyone say more?
4:35 I you knew 4/5 years ago why didnt you go to Board meeting and spill the bean? Since we cant go back in time, doesnt it stand to reason to ask the questions to the parties in charge NPW?
"And why just ask about police and fire; we have several other departments in Crestwood you know"
Past boards have discussed selling the Aquadic Center and/or the government center and leasing them. Other items discussed were selling the parks for development or other property owned by the city. None of those discussions went anywhere. If either of those options were implemented the monies tied to maintain them would be a less, hence "cuts" in expenses/budget.
So other "departments" have been discussed.
4:40 PM Don Greer left the city and then he past away, so that means what now? He should be excused and exonerated for his part in spending city monies, among other things he got away with while in Crestwood? He almost got a 14 million dollar police station too, with his administration supporting it. So much for that..
Listen, if you don't want to give me credit for making a few reasonable, understandable comments, that's OK with me.
On the other hand, I will give you credit for one thing. I will give you credit for stating how you feel because you care about Crestwood. That's more than you credit me with. There is nothing wrong with asking questions of this mayor at this time, or at board meetings, or asking questions to your aldermen. I never meant to elude to that. I am just sorry you cannot allow me the same courtesy to express myself without making inunendos.
4:52 PM Nobody is asking you to go back in time. What I am stating is that you have to "consider the past" when you analyze Crestwood now, and not put it all on the back of this one mayor regarding how we got where we are today. How fast we come back depends on how long we were just getting by.
Furthermore, I did ask my questions back as much as 5 years ago to city officials. I even asked Tom Fagan to please be careful regarding Don Greer. But the officials didn't listen to me because everyone believed Don Greer's lies. At that time, everyone paid homage to Greer like he was Crestwood's savior. I was just a resident, held no big title and had no clout. Satisfied!
5:03 PM Other departments have been discussed, you say. Well good! Too bad you never hear about other departments just the police and fire.
I am still waiting for someone to answer the question asked before, by others as to why did the fire department have to settle for a second-hand pumper for $200,000 several years ago, if we had so much money "several years ago"? Wouldn't that put a kink in somebody's thinking?
A metaphor! Like every 5 years, a person buys a brand new car and has "always" done that; but now he is only buying a used one every 5 years? Did that not tell the previous administration and public officials, that we were short of cash?
I'll say it again. Mistakes were made by several administrations to lead up to where we are now. These mistakes make a difference in this whole picture. But, because we have two factions in this city, the Roy supporters and the Roy haters, you will never, ever get those who supported the previous administrations and Don Greer, CA, to admit that they made some big mistakes period! They will put it all on the back of this mayor and this mayor only. It is not right and it is not fair.
Big questions were never asked of the previous officials but questions of this mayor are coming out of the woodwork. Not right; not fair. You never watched or cared before; but you expect miracles now. It's called politics not common sense. That's all.
The 2nd hand pumper deal was under Kent L, why don't you ask him since he was handling the books then? He was telling every body how much well ff we were, so if he had a clue about the real money needs of the City, the fire pumper was the only place he showed it.
"Big questions were never asked of the previous officials but questions of this mayor are coming out of the woodwork. Not right; not fair. You never watched or cared before; but you expect miracles now. It's called politics not common sense. That's all."
I respectfully disagree. Big questions were asked of previous officials. Don't forget the state audit. Don't forget a group of citizens starting a petition over the city hall-Crestwood Plaza lease. Don't forget about all of the questions regarding the new police station. Some of us that asked questions then are still asking questions now.
Thank you.
The second hand pumper was definitely under Greer's watch! Not placing blame here, just stating a fact.
Well lets see, Crestwood has participated in the opt out tax days for 3 years. Has it brought people back to Crestwood to shop other than those designated days? Haven't seen that reflected in the sales tax income. Hmmmmmm Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
Pray tell, what big questions were asked Mr. 9:51 pm? The petitions of which you speak were not initiated by the mayor and board, they were initiated by the people of this town who had sense enough to take matters upon themselves. I never heard one word from the officials. And I never heard one word from any official on the dais contradict or question in any detail, anything Greer wanted or did. And if he did answer a question, they believed it.
I also know that Leichliter and others made mistakes. Never said others didn't. But what Greer did was no mistake, my friend, he was very deliberate in what he did cause he had a plan. To be City Administrator some day and have all his own people. That, was the work of a sociopath and not a mistake. Too bad he and his mistress had a paper shredding party and got rid of lots of important materials.
I am sorry that you don't see any credence at all in what I have said. I am also sorry that you do not agree with me. But thanks for your input.
For the record, I do not believe that anyone in office makes the right decisions all the time, no not even this mayor. I, too, would have liked to NOT have a tax holiday. I, also, don't like some of the things he insists on. But he did the one thing that nobody else would do. He got rid of the biggest threat Crestwood ever had and that was Don Greer. Jim Robertson and Tom Fagan choose him and now even Tom Fagan says Greer was wrong.
And So, we just don't see eye to eye on this. We have both had our say, so let's just call it a day. And if people in this city don't like this mayor, they will elect another next time.
As I said above, we all should take advantage of the open door policy in use by Mayor Robinson!
If you really want to know the fact's, set up a meeting (as I did) and you will be heard.
All of us (including me) think we know the score, but in the end, we don't, and that's why you need to meet with him to find out!
When it comes to past history, our resident City Hall historian Sandy Grav~e is the person to go to. She saw all of them come and go, and she knows where the bodies are buried!
That said, "Who cares who killed Hitler as long as he's dead!" We can't go back, I wish we could, but we can't, so let's focus on the future of Crestwood, and what we can do to be a part of it!
Tom Ford
What is the point of this blog if you are not going totalk about one of themost important issues facing our city in years...the need for a tax increase.
8:05 am BLOGGER: I too wish the good citizens would stay on the tax increase subject, but they seem to be more interested in who did what to whom in the past rather than the here and now!
I would love to see a FRIENDY, discussion on the pros and con's of this issue, as would you. Maybe that will happen!
Tom Ford
Here's friendly for you, I'm voting NO because I have not been shown the cuts that were promised last fall before a tax increase was needed.
I urge others to vote NO as well.
Tom,
When are we going to get the information you obtained from your meeting with the mayor? You promised to fill us in on the Tax increase after your meeting. What are your thoughts?
How does the Mayor spell flip flop, he spells it
TOM FORD
11:54 AM blogger; What do I think of the tax increase? Well like ANY tax increase I am loath to grant it (and I believe Mayor Robinson feels the same way.)
What we are dealing with here is the mini "perfect storm" if you will. On one side the City is not cash strapped this year, and the books are balanced. On the other Crestwood Courts will be in the demolition process by late spring, and early summer 2009.
I was told that Crestwood Court's has a plan to retain it's base retailers, and add more during the construction phase, but I have not seen it. If this can and does happen we may not need the increase (or at least not as large.)
If this doesnt work, we will need every penny of the increase to provide the services we now enjoy. This boils down to just two things.
1. Can we trust the developers?
2. Can we trust the Board?
The developers own the ground, and are anxious to get some return on investment going. The Board is the variable in this equasion as they MUST be willing to "sunset this tax the nanosecond it becomes obvious it's no longer needed!
So to me it's all a mater of who do you trust, and since WE ALL had a chance to vote, and the majority elected the Board (and Mayor,) I think we must give them the chance to prove we were right when we voted them in!
I know I will hear from the "flip flop" genius on this, but if he/she has a better idea, say so (with your name,) or shut up!
I am not yet fully convinced that the increase should be granted, and I don't like it one bit, but I do not have a "crystal ball" to tell me what next year will bring! I do know that White cliff will be paid off in 2012, and Kohl's TIF in 2010, so that's a help there. We do not yet know the amount of TIF, TDD, CID the developers will want ( I am told they will want it all, so?)
As you can see this isn't as simple as it seems, but it all still hinges of the trust we have in our leadership! Do we give them the chance to shine, or do we say no, that's up to each of us, but I do think we will need something in the next four years.
Like Ronald Reagan, I believe in "trust but verify," so if the Board is willing to take the pledge to "sunset" in four years (and put it in writing) I will support it, if not, No sign in this yard!
Tom Ford
1:23 PM blogger: My Lord you are a genius aren't you! All you can do is spout off, and accomplish nothing!
Put that energy to work, go see the Mayor yourself, and tell us how YOU feel!
"Illegitimus Non-carborundum!"
Tom Ford
Mr. or Mrs. 11:57 PM, June 13, 2008
You did not quantify your statement about questions asked by officials. You only asked what questions were asked of previous administrations. You did not specifically state who was or wasn't asking the questions.
By the way, once Jerry Miguel became alderman, and even before, he asked questions - a lot of them.
Oh, and my name is not pray and I may or may not tell something.
Please remember that the numbers where only compared for two years which skews the picture. If you would ask him to look back 3 years or even back five years the numbers would demonstrate the spike in sales occurred with or without the sales tax holiday.
Ask the mayor, and he has been asked and gave no reply, why he did not look at larger sample which would present a true indicator of trends.
Also, ask him why, if a reduced sales tax increases sales, he doesn,t make it permanent? If reduced sales tax increases sales enough to offset the tax lose and actually increases tax income then we should take action immediately and remove the request for property tax increase from the ballot in August.
Ask Tom (a.k.a Flip Flop) to ask the Mayor in one of their "private" meetings that the two enjoy so much.
10:29 AM blogger: Wow it must be really fun to be you, what with your negative attitude, and lack of vision!
Are you an invalid who can't go to see the Mayor, or do you just like to read your diatribe in print?
You want answers? Do it yourself, get up there and ask away, I am sure they will be very happy to talk to you, as in your mind your the smartest person in town!
Tom Ford
Ask him if he know what the avg cost to the budget is for one of the people who are paid from the fire budget (including the Chief on down to the secy, it is $80,750)
Poster 12:27 PM, June 13, 2008
DO YOU know the AVERAGE pay of Firefighter/Paramedic in St. Louis County? How about a Police Officer?
What difference does it make what other people are getting paid, I live in Crestwood and am being asked to increase my taxes to keep the service that cost on average the amount listed.
Further, didn't the Mayor and Alderman Foote state the increase wasn't going to be used for pay raises? Is that no longer the truth? Why the change?
Where are the "more cuts to be made" before any talk of a tax increase our Mayor spoke about last fall?
How about some cuts and then talk about asking for more of our money?
Since if the tax passes there will be less money on my pocket, how about a small pay cut from the employees of Crestwood as a way of saying thanks, can they do that?
Can Crestwood sell some of their assets to help reduce the tax bite on it's citizens?
Why is it that government can not do with less money but the private citizen who pays for government can?
Where is the proof that the City needs more of our money?
How come the amount needed went from 25 cents to 35 cents, do they know at City Hall what is really needed?
If we are so short of money why the sales tax holiday, regardless of how much the CITY will lose in sales tax dollars, who has to make up the difference, why we the citizens do with our our property tax. Outrageous.
3:29 PM blogger: Excellent and valid questions indeed! I have no idea who your Alderman is, but have you told him of your concern?
If not, please do, and add the mayor to your list because if you don't, they will think "all is well," and go right on doing what they are doing!
There seems to be two school's of thought on the Board. One is that the City Administrator and the Mayor run the town, and they are just there to consent, and the other is that they run the town!
In my opinion we need more of the "they run the town" mentality if we are ever going to succeed here!
Call the one you put in office, tell them how you feel, and we may get something done!
Tom Ford
3:29 PM
You are the one who is outrageous. You and the other naysayer who wants the mayor to rattle off percentages of this and that. You both think you are so smart! You don't fool me that's for sure.
I have a question for both of you! Instead of asking the mayor for percentages or making fun of Tom Ford because he at least tries to help you on his blog, why don't you rattle off a percentage, or answer a real good question truthfully?
Ask yourself the question, did the previous "mayors" of Crestwood know the percentages of everything in the budget or do you just want to put this mayor's feet to the fire???? I SAID TRUTHFULLY!
Are you saying that ALL the other mayors knew the answers to all questions and specifically stated them to the whole of Crestwood? Did they write a book about everything that occurs on a daily basis, or do you just want this mayor to write a book?. If he did, would it really satisfy you?
Are you saying that you got all the information you ever needed from the previous elected officials??? If you got numbers and audits from the previous administration, did you know that the numbers were correct? Or did it satisfy you to just have numbers in your "face"??? How do you know that the numbers from previous officials were correct? Oh that's right! Their names were not Roy Robinson. After all, it's only this mayor that you seem to want to turn inside out!
Oh. That's right, none of the other mayors and elected officials DIDN'T HAVE to answer your questions cause they were NOT SMART ENOUGH TO ASK FOR AN INCREASE IN PROPERTY TAX. THEY WERE TOO BUSY SPENDING IT.
I would say in a fair comparison, that this mayor hasn't made anymore bad decisions as others. However, people like you, who, rather than be embarrassed to say that you don't want a "property tax" increase just because you hate this mayor and taxes, would rather use the excuse about how "bad" JUST THIS ONE MAYOR IS, JUST THIS ONE, because FIRST, he changed his mind about WANTING A TAX; Oh Yes, HE ONLY SAID NO TAXES because he wanted to be elected! SECOND, he wants the tax holiday. Oh My Gosh; shame on him. Considering that he and his wife have always been involved with the merchants in Crestwood, he wants a tax holiday. WELL SLAUGHTER TO HIM FOR THAT. WELL THAT JUST CHANGES EVERYTHING DOESN'T IT. NOT!!!!!
You use Very, very feable reasons for saying No to a property tax increase; WHICH YOU WERE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR ANYWAY. TELL THE TRUTH; IT'S A SIN TO TELL A LIE.
If you were so stupid as to vote for someone because he said no tax increase, and were not smart enough to know that things happen all the time and nothing is ever set in stone, you are really pitiful and ignorant.
Let's face it. You didn't like this mayor to begin with; you didn't vote for him in the first place and you and others are always looking for others to pay your fair share. We have all gotten by cheaper in Crestwood in the last 30 years than most.
BUT THAT ISN'T A GOOD ENOUGH "COMPARISON" OR A GOOD ENOUGH "PERCENTAGE" FOR YOU. IS IT? End of discussion.
Other mayors long before now should have increased the "property tax", and I am not talking Proposition 1 or 2 or 3 or 4; I mean our feable property tax that doesn't work in the 21st century it is so pathetically low.
Wow, calm down, or not, I really don't care. If you want to pay additional taxes, be my guest.
In fact, why don't you go up to city hall tomorrow morning and write a check? After all, you think our property tax is "so pathetically low."
"You are the one who is outrageous. You and the other naysayer who wants the mayor to rattle off percentages of this and that. You both think you are so smart! You don't fool me that's for sure."
Well that's wonderful. But I would sure hope the mayor of a city would be able to justify his reasons for a tax increase and have a good grip on the numbers.
5:47 pm, Well go down the list of mayors and you will find that the previous mayors and elected officials didn't have to answer all of your questions or worry about property tax increases because we had a viable sales tax that took care of everything. We don't have that anymore! And That's why percentages and numbers in the past, were OF NO CONCERN TO YOU OR THEM, and questions were not asked by residents.
Well now it's time to pay the piper and everyone thinks THIS PROBLEM just happened in the last 4years.
I'll ask some questions to you. Why did we have to pay as we went for a new community center and use up all our money??? Why didn't we have sense enough to save for a rainy day???? Why did we have to have no bonded indebtedness and use up all our capital????? Is that how you spend your money???? CASH ON THE BARREL HEAD????? NOW, YOU WANT ALL KINDS OF ANSWERS TO ALL KINDS OF QUESTIONS AND YOU WANT THE ANSWERS NOW; BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT IN THE 'HEY' HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS TO GET HERE. IT JUST HAPPENED SINCE ROY BECAME MAYOR RIGHT?????? DREAM ON.
If this mayor wasn't asking US to vote yes on a property tax increase; I KNOW FOR SURE THAT YOU WOULDN'T CARE WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT CITY HALL; YOU WOULDN'T BE BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT PERCENTAGES AND NUMBERS OR ANYTHING. PURE AND SIMPLE. YOU WANT EVERYTHING WE GET IN CRESTWOOD AS FAR AS SERVICES GO BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT DO YOU? THAT IS THE REALITY OF YOUR WHOLE SCHPEEL!!!!
5:40 Hey shut up!!!! If you don't understand why I am upset, you are the one with the problem. I explained it all to you. So, big deal, I should go WRITE a check TO city hall? You would like that wouldn't you? Then you wouldn't have to open your wallet, would you?
You and others will be the ones who will be sorry if the property tax fails cause you will be the very first in line complaining and whining about ALL SERVICES not being there for you.
It isn't a threat it is a promise.
IF YOU CAN EXPLAIN TO ME HOW IN THE WORLD WE CAN SURVIVE ON WHAT OUR PROPERTY TAX IS NOW WHEN EVERYTHING AROUND US COSTS MUCH, MUCH MORE FOR US TO LIVE, I WILL GLADLY SHUT MY MOUTH. WHY ON EARTH CAN'T ANYONE ANSWER THAT QUESTION HUH????? I AM NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT SALARIES OR OUR POLICE AND FIRE. TELL ME.....IF YOU DON'T PAY MORE FOR EVERYTHING NOW THAN YOU DID 20 AND 30 YEARS AGO. TELL ME...TELL ME...TELL ME. AND DON'T YOU BE TELLING ME ABOUT THIS PROPOSITION OR THAT PROPOSITION. THAT IS NOT THE SAME, AND REAL ESTATE TAXES ARE NOT THE SAME. I AM SPEAKING OF OUR VERY, VERY LOW PROPERTY TAX.
No, this has nothing to do with previous mayors, and as Tom Ford has asked, lets focus on the now. And yes, the mayor better be able to rattle off percentages, numbers, estimates, predicted expenses, past earnings, every number conceivable for any question asked. THAT is his job, and if he didn't want it, he should have gone to the polls and voted for someone who could. His performance compared to other mayors has NOTHING to do with the here and now.
And for those who whine about how low our property taxes are, perhaps you should post that list of cities that function with NO property tax to residents.
The mayor needs to do a better job of identifying the need for this tax increase, and explain WHY we didn't need one when he was running for election and WHY we didn't need one until he was firmly seated in a second term. Some say the increase he's seeking isn't enough, that it is just enough to get him through his term and leave the mess for the next administration. Some say we don't need it at all, that we should cut expenses further, that we should contract police/fire/pool operations. I say show us the options, that perhaps it's time for the Crestwood residents to bear the expense of a fire protection district like most other citys our size.
Roy can dangle that mall in front of us all he wants, but the reality is that it's years down the road, that the economy is terrible, that retail sales are going out the window with internet shopping, and we'll still be sharing those profits with all of St. Louis County. That mall may improve Crestwood's image and bring in higher end retail and scoot us up a notch, but it isn't going to solve our financial woes.
Quit running the City, Roy, because it isn't as simple as a one page plan. Hire an experienced City Administrator to really assess what we need. Hire an experienced Finance Officer that can project needs and implement plans. This town is being run by elected officials, and that isn't what they are there to do. When we see something concrete from someone who KNOWS that they are talking about, we'll be more willing to make the hard decisions.
7:22 and 4:33 since you are the same person, I really hope your name calling comes back to haunt you.
Seems to me your prime reason for having your "shorts in a bunch" is the fact that some of us want the Mayor to answer questions. Gee, what a awful thing to do, ask the man who ran the Town Hall meeting explaining the tax increase, questions about his position. Everyne who does so must be a RoyHater, come on get a life.
Outrageous, indeed.
No one, and I mean no one can show empirically that contracting police service will (1) lower our property values, (2) decrease our personal safety, (3) decrease response time for police services. Crestwood, like other municipalities have a false sense of security when it comes to police protection.
If you need to reduce costs you must reduce personnel. Personnel costs are close to 75% of any budget. Crestwood will still be Crestwood. This is the first step in a long overdue process to eliminate the 90 or so UNNEEDED municipalities within the county. Redundancy is costly and poor management.
I'll say it again and for the last time....should have been asking those questions all along not just now. Now you not only ask the questions and ask for percentages, and everything else, you get all self-righteous about it.
Doesn't make me feel bad at all. That's just your way of justifying your comments. You still haven't answered my question of "why only ask the questions now"? Why not in the good years when we had money? I can answer that - cause nobody was asking you to accept a property tax increase! Now you have to go into your pocket, and you don't like it? Too much too late. That's all!
10 am You can reduce the police and fire if you think that's the answer, and you can decrease the budget until it is anorexic, it is pocket change compared to what we need to keep Crestwood going.
Nobody can live on what their income was 20 and 30 years ago especially when they have no money in the bank and especially when they have to borrow money like Crestwood has to make ends meet.
Wait a minute, I thought someone said that Robinson brought Crestwood back! Then why do we need a tax increase if we're back?
Crestwood is not living on what their income was 20 or 30 years ago. They are living on a rate that was set 20 some odd years ago. That rate is per $100 of assessed valuation, and the assessed valuation of homes in the Crestwood area has gone up significantly in the past 20 years, so Crestwood has seen an increase in property tax revenue. Furthermore, sales tax rate has been bumped up several times along with other fees. And don't forget about Prop S. That money is paying off debt. So Crestwood is not living off of same income as it was 20 years ago.
If Crestwood is so costly, and the real questions were not addressed in the past as one blogger argues, then the city has had problems for a long time then, yes or no? If yes, would it not be better to drop Crestwood and eliminate one layer of government?
10:28 It is not that Crestwood is so costly; it's that everything costs more and Crestwood doesn't have it's almighty sales tax to pay the bills.
You can elminate one layer of government and if the people feel that they don't want to pay more in a property tax rate hike, we may have too.
But remember, we are not talking about higher taxes in Crestwood per say, Crestwood's tax rate is what would go up, which of course has a bearing on what we would pay overall, for sure; like someone mentioned. Since our housing stock does go up. Well better than our housing stock t going down. That is the most important piece of real estate for most of us.
But everything we pay out of our pockets to live has gone up. And Crestwood now has the added complication of needing more money to survive and nobody wants to do it because they are taxed to death for everything else including our school district, and we have been taxed to death for years by other entities. So now here is Crestwood who for years kept our rate of property tax low and everybody says no to assist in increasing our tax rate through no fault of their own.
"So now here is Crestwood who for years kept our rate of property tax low and everybody says no to assist in increasing our tax rate through no fault of their own."
According to another blogger, previous administrations in Crestwood should have seen this coming - "I'll ask some questions to you. Why did we have to pay as we went for a new community center and use up all our money??? Why didn't we have sense enough to save for a rainy day???? Why did we have to have no bonded indebtedness and use up all our capital????? "
So does 'no fault of their own' really apply here?
Hay 10:15, when Roy was an alderman and money was good, was HE asking for a property tax increase then? Was he driving the City to raise taxes and save for a rainy day?
Fact is the Mayor is doing so now, when he could have done so in the past when he was an Alderman.
Almost 15 years ago a couple new Alderman got the Board to pass over Kent's objections a reserve fund. It's gone now, spent, by who, but none other than the current elected officials, one of which is our current mayor. So don't give me that junk about past officials, your boy was one of them and by your own guide lines failed miserably.
Better still, explain why the Mayor didn't allow even the talk of a tax increase to take place last Fall, if your so bent on blaming the past?
Roy could have do it then, but why dear Strong Roy lover, didn't he then? For political reasons that's why. But that still does not excuse him from being asked question that you find so "unfair" whine, whine, whine.
I found the timing interesting too! One month AFTER the election, Roy says he has changed his mind and thinks Crestwood needs a tax increase.
3:12 pm Well good for you. You were able to get Roy back in the mix again cause you found out that he was an alderman years ago. Splendid!
I guess Roy could have done something when he was an alderman, but he would have been the "lone ranger" because nobody would have backed him on the board. You forgot that part. You said it yourself "your boy was ONE of them". One plus zero is one.
So, when you find another avenue to pursue the execution of THIS MAYOR; ONLY THIS ONE NOW, LET'S KEEP IT STRICTLY ON ROY, we shall hear from you again. Nice try at grandstanding but your words don't mean a thing to me.
You can go ahead and put it ALL on Roy for all I care. If it is so confounded impossible for you to look at this whole picture without putting the total blame on Roy, make yourself happy doing it. Hope you feel good now.
Ok, I'll do just what you asked me to do. I'll put it all on Roy. There, you feel better?
Before all I was doing was using your rules of spreading the blame around and when I brought to your attention his falling into the slot of those who should have done something in the past, you start wimping out. Well, Alderman Miguel was the only voice in the fall of 2007 who said we had a problem and who said he was wrong, nobody but the love of your life, our Mayor, Roy R.
Now, lets get down to the questions that have been asked that started your eruption of support for Roy.
Does the City need more money?
Are their cuts that should be made now, like if the tax fails, what will the Board and Mayor do? Why cant they do them now?
What assets can the City sell to either reduce the amount of increase or postpone it all together?
How much should the employees of the City be accountable for in reducing their cost to the tax payer?
Will a Sunset really be the correct action for the City?
Why has the City spent the surplus that had at the end of 2007?
Why weren't the elected officials on top of the decline in reserves?
Can we trust them to do better if we give them more of our money?
Notice, not once in these questions was the Mayors name used, can you handle that?
4:52
Good Thoughts Actually. I believe there is possibility that lacking careful attention to details and lack of a functional CA or Finance Officer, or both, both dedicated to the job and with the right credentials, Crestwood could still find some cuts. Until then, who should I believe, trust, listen o? The story has really changed by the month.(By the way with the cost of gas being what it is) how much gas, for example, is being consumed by employees with city cars and for what uses?) Got any answers here? Who monitors this? What about Insurance on city cars -how much? How many police cars, for instance, does a city of 4 sq. miles need??? Are there any stones unturned? With my new and excessive property Tax this year and all the increased utility and gas and food costs - I am looking for cuts, too. Or a handout! Or a break! I can't expect to live like a king under these circumstances and neither can city hall. The rubber is meeting the road, eh!City Hall MUST buckle down MORE and big time just like the rest of us. What talent up there is truly on top of things? Who can we trust? This musical chair thing in the departments is getting old fast.Just like in the presidential debates, the real questions are not being answered, only alluded to. So, now in our city, we MUST have facts, the real ones. No guesses. Yes, rah rah, we have a wonderful city, we want to keep it that way, not realizing that sacrifice is now required. Either our standard of living is compromised with higher taxes or we pay the tax and still wonder how it is spent and on what and suffer the consequences.
Looks to me like lots of past roaches are (sadly we know who they are and are disappointed in them)coming out to discredit the Mayor. Roaches because they had their chance and I don't see a huge reserve and I don't remember them being dedicated to streamlining things, even though this revenue train has been coming down the track for some time now. I do remember some totally obscene expenditures and practices, however. All documented. This city sure has its share of big mouth former politicians, whose service taught them nothing, left us insolvent and whose dedication left the building along with Elvis. Just as soon as I see where their nasty politics regarding today's fiscal determinations is benefitted by their anal namecalling and lack of progressive ideas, I will be comfortable that we are all in this together. This nasty split, based on pure politics, does nothing for our problems and does nothing to sustain the fact that Crestwood is such a great place to live. Because if this kind of contribution in the form of pure hatefulness, lets get even, na na na na na - is the expression of bitter ex officials and their cronies and is any indication of our city's net emotional and ethical worth, and so called civic pride we are sunk!
Well kids, there is an old saying that may sum this up. period!
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Or, Who will guard the guards?
Again it all boils to trust, do we, or don't we?
Tom Ford
6:23 PM Your long last paragraph says it all to me. That has been my point from the beginning. Especially the point about the past roaches and how they had their chance. However, once again, someone has to throw the mayor's small term as a past member of the board of aldermen to place the blame on him still!!!!
So now this "whoever" he or she is, I hope can throw out comments to you instead of me cause I am really getting sick and tired of his/her input.
Maybe he/she can argue your comment especially the one about "this city sure has had their share of former politicians whose service taught them nothing, left us insolvent, and whose dedication left the building".
Come on 4:52 you want to use your finesse regarding what 6:23 says or are you just giving me the benefit of all your worthless chatter?
...or...
7:07 sure thing, no problem, if as you claim Roy was just one voice when he was an alderman are we to believe then that
A. He didn't have the guts then to state the need for a property tax increase and stand up for what was best for Crestwood then
OR
B. He like the rest of the elected officials over the past 20 years, didnt have a clue to the true financial condition of the City?
Which one will you say was the case? Then after you make your position, how does that effect the most recent events, like since last fall till now?
7:45 PM Don't look at me for the answer. You have been arguing with me now on this subject what seems to be "forever". So why ask me? Unless you still feel like playing this game. Frankly, I'm getting tired.
Roy is the one who has to answer that. You and I can assume all we want. However, let me state a few things to also be considered in coming to conclusions, that is, if you will let me.
Maybe at the time Roy was an alderman, years ago, a property tax increase wasn't necessary and wasn't considered. I say that because at that time what board members should have been doing was saving sales tax monies and "not spending" it. We had money then. Had we kept it and accrued interest, a property tax issue didn't really have to be done. Had he tried to curtail spending, he would have been defeated cause nobody cared. It would have been 7for and 1 against.
Another thing I would like to state. I need to stress that aldermen on the board at that time were not term limited and were re-elected year after year. Don't you feel they also need to be faulted? Roy was a short-termer.
But if you still want to put everything on Roy's plate, so be it. I still say that if you want to execute Roy for not speaking up, you need to execute the other 7but I am frankly tired of the argument. What I mean is there were several board members at that time, that had so much more longevity than Roy that they also should be in your so-called corral of evildoers.
I really don't feel that our whole mess in Crestwood today can just stem from one person. It takes years of bad mistakes to reach this point.
However, speaking of points, there is no point for me to try to make you undertand it; if you feel like Roy has damaged this city and that everything that has happened stems from him; so be it. So much for being one dimensional.
I agree, Roy has damaged the City, there, you see, we can agree on something at last.
7:30 am Yes, I see that!
Well let's see.....Crestwood has participated in the STR days for 3 years now. Have you seen an increase in "repeat customers" other than those designated days? I don't think so.
One of the big draws in early August is the back-to-school sales retailers have. On top of that, if your purchases qualify, you still don't have to pay state sales taxes whether your local community opts in or opts out.
I think it is a rotten idea to ask us to raise our property taxes because we need the extra money to keep our services, but to help the retailers in our city we are going to take the sales tax holiday.
Only an idiot would think that made sense.
Let me ask a few questions, okay. I am totally willing to listen providing the answers are serious ones. I read so much about the current Mayor on this blog, so I guess it's just that I can't really have a basis for these comments or a basis for comparison unless writers provide some fair answers. Is this fair?
What positive contributions that bettered our community in any way, including fiscal ones, were made by the following Mayors?
Brasfield
Robertson
Fagan
(I am aware of the sunshine law being brought into play by Robertson)
In what way were these Mayors better or worse than the current Mayor?
What measures did these Mayors take and persist in to cope with the sliding revenues and Mall deterioration?
What action was taken during their terms to guarantee us a fiscally sound future? One without the need for a Letter of Credit on which to depend?
Which Mayor presumed for whatever reason that the city was prepared to build the expensive city hall upgrade? Was his financial expertise dedicated or was he mislead?
Thanks.
Let's see if I can make sense of all this discussion. We don't have any idea what cuts have already been made but we want more. We don't need a Property tax increase because we already pay more than enough. We should get rid of our current fire dept for which we pay 20 some cents /100 and get fire service from a Fire dept charging 60 cents /100.
Listen to yourselves because you sure aren't listening to anyone else.
7;43PM
Please don't get the troops fired up again about the past. It serves no positive purpose but to "Stir the Pot".
8:40 PM, June 17, 2008
Cuts - wasn't stormwater control cut and some hours at the community center trimmed? Also, weren't there cuts by attrition in the police department, yet at the same time promotions were given?
Taxes - our property taxes are low for the moment. Sales and utility taxes are moderate to high-check county charts.
Fire department - Fire districts have historically been more costly than Crestwood.
Listening - great idea. Tell that to mayor and some on BOA.
7:43 PM June 17th. I think you are genuinely sincere in your questions and at least I can hope you are being sincere.
A blogger and I just had a long, big fight on this blog because he/she or they want to place all of the blame for our problems only on Roy and no other elected officials. Maybe because he/she/they have been one.
He/she or they refuse to take into account the tenure of the aforementioned individuals you ask about in your comment. They just want Roy to be responsible for everything.
But I can answer your questions for you, in that those named by you had much more longevity and tenure in their elected positions and did "Nadda" about anything. Much more tenure than Roy did as alderman. He/she/they keep telling me I have got my "shorts in a knot".
Therefore, I have resigned myself to the fact that, this mayor and this one alone made all these bad things happen in Crestwood and I get nowhere with my logic or sanity.
However, when you get a chance, look at how many years Jim Brasfield was either alderman or mayor of Crestwood. And also look at the tenure of Dr. Richard LaBore that you did not mention, and Tom Fagan. Maybe you will see that these people served many, many years as mayor, President of the Board of Aldermen or board of aldermen members.
Yet, these previously elected officials are not to be taken into consideration for their apparent nonchlance about any financial issues. Just Roy. Everything else should be forgotten.
I am in no condition to go back into that battlefield cause there are land mines all over the place.
In reference to the argumentation I have dealt with by he/she or they, I feel that the debater of my comments has full knowledge of the law and badgering people as if on a witness stand is what they should stick to.
Let's see, Brasfield was an alderman from the late '70's until he ran for mayor. He became mayor in '96? So he was mayor from 96 until 2002. Alderman for 18? years and mayor for 6 years.
Then came Jim Robertson. He was elected alderman in 1998 and served at that capacity until he was elected mayor in 2002. He served until 2004. Alderman for 4 years, mayor for 2.
Then Breeding became interim mayor.
Fagan was elected alderman from 1993 until he was elected mayor from (August?)2004 until April 2005. Alderman for 11 years, mayor for several months.
Roy Robinson was elected alderman from 1988-1992. Ran for mayor in 92 and 96? Elected mayor in 2005. Re-elected in 2008. Alderman for 4 years and mayor for 3+ years.
I think those were the dates. Just wanted to put a timeline together.
I myself do not blame this mayor for all of the problems this city faces. I put some blame on projects (e.g.police station) that should have been reconsidered. Other issues were placed on the back burner as the city worked on that project. But I also put some of the blame on the lack of long-term economic development and saving. The reserve fund was a terrific idea, but unfortunately that money was spent. Furthermore, Crestwood was somewhat hostile to its business community and I think it has paid heavily for that mistake.
However, this mayor said he had a plan but never came forward with it. He says he was against a tax increase now he is in favor of it. If you wish to absolve this mayor of any and all blame, that is your right. But many of us do not share your opinion.
1:02 PM I have never said that Roy has done everything right. But the people that upset me are the ones who "only" want to put him at the helm of everything that is going wrong today when indeed that just isn't so. You have made some real good points and researched the terms of past and present elected officials and that's commendable cause most people wouldn't do that.
But if you total up the amount of years of the officials you stated in your comments and then total the amount of years Roy was an elected official, you will find that these others had much more time to set things straight in Crestwood and much more time to do their homework; not saying Roy also didn't have some time.
I look at all the years of wasted money and revenue spending. Also had Roy not been elected mayor now, I have no doubt we would have had a 14 million dollar police facility because Don Greer would have stayed in Crestwood until his death with two important positions because Tom Fagan trusted him, and he would have talked everyone into that police facility. That facility was only meant to glorify himself and would have done nothing to give only one public safety department state of the art everything. To heck with the fire department. Greer wasn't out to do anything for them. And with this economy today, that would have been a major catastrophe.
So, here's how I look at what Roy said and what he did. If you want to, you can say that he told everyone he had a plan and never came forward with it, and said no taxes and now he is for a tax increase. Therefore, that will either make you conclude that he is a liar and said those things to get elected which I guess is what you are saying; or you can say that he was under a mistaken impression of the real financial condition Crestwood was in, and when he became mayor, he was told things and saw things that he wasn't privy to when he was running for mayor.
I have personally many time changed my mind about things I was sure of. I have been in a health plan that two years ago I thought was the one I would keep. I recommended it to friends. Now I regret it because I see flaws that I didn't see before. It was a bad decision on my part; but I was wrong in my view. Should I be written off by my friends because of it?
I also had a life insurance policy that I thought was the best I could get. Now I find that there were things that have made me change my mind about the company but at the time, I thought I knew everything about it.
So, I am just trying to make a point that just because a person is running for mayor, he/she is not infallable. If he doesn't do everything he says he is going to do, it leaves the decision up to you and I as to whether he is a liar or if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I assume you and others think he has lied to us, I choose to feel he didn't know he would have problems up to his eyeballs.
Thanks.
2:55, I guess Roy was just making a mistake when he told an Alderman that the Alderman was over just their Ward but he as Mayor was over the whole City?
Why do you think those posters who you site and quote are upset with Roy, it's because of Roy's Imperial Mayor-hood, he has said and done things on the record that now are coming back to haunt him.
3:50 Like I said before. I am done with the fist fight over the likes and dislikes of the mayor.
You can argue with someone else.
It's good that you get it all out of your system though. Now I will politely "but out". Don't want to get my "shorts in a knot" anymore.
So if you think this
"or you can say that he was under a mistaken impression of the real financial condition Crestwood was in..."
why can't that be said about previous BOA and mayors???? hmmmmm
People make decisions on the information given to them. ie. staff, audits, etc.
4:49 the answer to your question is simple, they are held to a much higher standard than Roy is.
4:49 PM Since you choose to keep protecting the previous elected officials from any wrongdoing; maybe it's cause you were one of them.hmmmmmmm
Sad really sad!
So how far back to you want to point the finger??? I guess all administations previous to Roy Robinson were BAD. Oh, please.
AGAIN.... People make decisions on the information given to them. ie. staff, audits, etc.
Robinson just has no one else to point the finger at since there is no CA and no Finance Officer. And since he would be the first to admit that he is no "numbers person", that makes me very leary of the current mayor and his ability to analyze any budget. Heck, the city staff is to provide a 5 year projection for income and staffing. Last one I heard about J. Tate provided and we were told "those are just guesses".
I think we need more creditable information before a tax increase is approved.
10:15, you are right on, no creditability with current Administration in City Hall
10:15 Hey point your finger anywhere you want for all I care. But I have a suggestion!!!!
Roy or no Roy. He won a second term as mayor; because nobody ran against him. Make your excuse for that as I am sure you will.
Next mayor will undergo the same scrutiny as Roy and if your candidate wins the mayoral election, you will see how playing politics will make you eat your words.
Yes, any mayor in this town will undergo scrutiny. Why? Because this town is in turmoil and has been for some time.
If money is rolling in and a city is prospering, there may be less scrutiny.
The mayor's job is tough. I cannot argue with that. Anything that happens in the city happens on the "mayor's watch." Yet at the same time, the charter only gives the mayor so much power.
You forget one important thing. I don't like Roy as a person; he is an embarrament to the city. His underhanded actions (his buddy the police hief), stupid comments and lack of civeliity will haunt him until he is gone! Until that time, he is fair game.
One of many comments made by the mayor - that should have never been said....what an embarrassment
"The thing about it is we've got a couple aldermen — who even if they were told that — would continue to press ... We've probably got a couple of them who would just keep on talking about anything that would try to screw it up"
10:48 Now you hit the nail on the head. Someone finally came out and sad plainly, "I don't like Roy as a person, etc." Now that you said that, if in your infinite wisdom, you did like the next mayor as a person for instance; that would be your opinion, but he/she could still not be very good at handling the city. Right? Your's just being an opinion. Bet you would make excuses for he/she cause you like him as a person. Right?
Embarrassment? OK you say Roy is an embarrassment to you and others. If you think that the next mayor isn't an embarrassment, but does make some bad mistakes, you would still make excuses for him/her, how much you wanna bet.
So, here we go again with likes and dislikes, being right versus being wrong; and the beat goes on.
The next mayor will undergo scrutiny, but if he/she is who you like, bet you make excuses whether that person is really right or wrong. Whether ir makes bad decisions and whether he/she angers you. You would give he/she slack; I would bet on it.
A person who has been elected for 11 years like some past board members, still should have asked questions years ago but things were good and you and I and they never asked them.
But I am glad Roy won the election over Tom Fagan because he gave one person too much power, Don Greer. He would have given him the power to destroy this city forever. So, that's why Roy won and Tom didn't.
Had Tom won, you would have been one who would have made excuses for him and Don Greer and a new police facility and everything else.
So considering everything going on at that time, thank God Roy won. Even Tom Fagan admits that Don Greer was wrong.
The End.
If you think Fagan gave too much power to one person, what the heck do you think is going on now with the Mayor? He has has all the power with no C/A, total veto power, he appoints who ever he wants to committees and breaks ties vote to ensure his person gets the job and has no financial officer to control the spending he wants. Who on this board can put together a block of votes to stop his actions? There is no one.
Even with all that power he cant keep his promises, like we will have a new C/A by end of April.
Put me down not as someone who doesnt like him but as someone who believes that, after listening to him, reading his words and seeing his actions, he hasn't a clue on how to do what he promised to do when he was elected a little over 3 yrs ago.
Amen to that!
Dear 11:47, how do you know that Fagan admits now that he made a mistake? Even if he had kept Greer, how long after Fagan was sworn into office did Greer pass away? Fagan couldnt have kept him like you claim.
The truth is many of the Roy Fan Club
members such as your self, hated the late Don Greer more than you like Roy as mayor. Be honest, admit that's the truth.
Gee, flip from the past with Greer to the future with a newly elected mayor that I like... try living in the present!
I don't care about Greer, the police station or Robertson. I care about what is going on at city hall today, now...not 5 years ago...get it!
PS: "he gave one person too much power, Don Greer." Please explain to me and the rest of this blog how Greer as city administrator had more power than any other CA?? You know that department heads work for the CA right? So he had more power over what?
Greer was police chief and CA dummy. Never mind! You wouldn't understand if I drew you pictures.
And who does the C/A work for Dummy (5:05)? The BOA.
Just like all other Dept Heads and C/A's have done, so explain to me how that was having too much power? Right now the Parks and Public Works are under one Dept Head, does that mean he has too much power?
Fact is Dummy 5:05, it's not so much your love and admiration for Roy as your hatred of Greer that makes you take your positions.
So much so that you can't allow any post on this blog that might not be favorable to Roy with out your bringing up Greer and the past.
It's like that is the only reason you read the blog, to defend Roy by attacking the past.
Well we are facing a major election issue coming up in August and I really don't care why it is on the ballot but I do want to know why I should vote for it like the Mayor has asked us to do. Pretty simple request isn't it?
Thanks 9:52, but I think 5:05 needs some schooling. "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?"
Lets use real small words: Who has the most power:
(1) The president
(2) The prsident who is also the vice-president;
(3) The president who is also the commander-n-chief of the armed forces...
Now lock in your answer!
2:19 PM June 19
You made a good point. As long as the CA position remains vacant, the mayor is free to assert his influence where and when he pleases. It is ironic that he is in no hurry to hire a new CA considering that he ran against former mayor Fagan partly because he disagreed with having a department head also act as the CA. We now have the same situation (in title only, as I would not place Chief Kessler in the same company as former chief Greer), yet the mayor has not shown the least bit of concern.
It appears evident that we will not hear from the mall developers or get a new CA prior to the vote on the tax. Having input from either of these sources would have provided voters with vital financial information. Instead, voters are deprived of both, and without them there are now two more reasons to oppose the proposed tax increase.
Martha Duchild
Even if the tax increase is approved, the 5% cap on excess cash will still apply to the Royal Bank's "loan". I guess it will cost Crestwood more money to convert the loan. Doubt it that made it into the budget.
I believe I made the point quite some time ago that Roy would try to change Crestwoods form of government to a strong mayor. He is doing it by not hiring a CA.
If I recall, Tom, you said your buddy would never do that and then all the charter people chimed in saying it could never happen!
When will everyone see that
Roy is just a snake in the grass.
Oh Me Oh My! What is a person to do about your problems with Roy.
I cannot understand how with all the decention about Roy, his motives, his not appointing a new CA, his tax increase, and calling him one of those slimmy things in the grass, why was he unopposed at this last mayoral election?
By not getting someone to run against him, you just as much as sanctioned him for another three years.
Heaven help anybody that wants to bring up the past from now on. I guess we just need to erase the last 20 years, as I see it.
Don't worry about me saying anything else about the past; Sounds like all we need to care about is the years Roy has been mayor. Everything else means nothing.
OK Fine!
5:16, Why did no one run against Roy the last election? Simple, he lied to us about the true condition of the City last fall in order to keep any one from being able to know the truth as a reason to run against an replace Roy.
Why should there have been someone to run against him is best summarized in Martha's last paragraph of her post dated 6/20/08 @ 9:20 a.m.
7:05 Like I said, OK Fine!
"snake in the grass." (9:52 AM blogger.) The last time I saw this on the blog it had been uttered by a rather flamboyant Ward Two Alderman, reference another Alderman.
Is this just a coincidence, or are we one in the same?
Tom Ford
change the subject; avoid the question! Come on Tom, tell us we are wrong about your boy roy! So what's your answer? Was he lying then or lying now? your choice!
1:56 Come on yourself!!! Your words tell us you obviously are just "playing" Tom; you really don't give a hoot what Tom says or feels about Roy or anyone, so why act like you do?
Tom tolerates you and tries to be nice but that word apparently isn't in your vocabulary. But, "snake in the grass" is!!! Seems you use that a lot and we bloggers really are tired of hearing it.
You are just another instigator who only reads this blog to interject your scarcastic remarks and everybody knows who you are and what you stand for.
Being on the opposite side of most things, being a person who gets his kicks poking fun and aggrevating Tom and others on the blog is what you are most capable of. And let's face it, you could care less what Tom feels about Roy. We already know how you feel about him and guess what, "we don't care". To be so constantly bitching about the Mayor, you remind me of the likes of some serial killer with sociopathic tendencies. I think the mayor needs to hire a body guard with someone like you on the loose.
You use this blog to act so smug and want people to think you are just Oh So Intelligent when all you really want to do is run your mouth off. But what you really do is show us your instability, hatefulness and insanity.
Scary!!!!!
There will ALWAYS be the voice of the public. You may not always agree but....it will be there. Get over it. Some of us are tired of your "type" comments too.
The voice of the people you ain't. Get over yourself and your mouth. True comments are one thing; insinuations and sarcasm are not the voice of the people; it's the voice of inbaciles who think they are being cute. NOT
Guess you think instigating Tom is the "voice of the people"?? NOT
1:56 pm blogger: What I think doesnt matter a hoot here. We all put forth our ideas, gripes, and wishes for all to read.
It's up to each of us to agree or disagree, so do you really need me to tell you what to think?
4:49 PM blogger: " instigating Tom?" I like it, if I can get your shorts in a knot over anything it means I have done my job, and very well!
You too can be the people's voice, let's see, what can you do? I have it, buy a book on Robert's Rules of Order, and wave it around at meetings!
Tom Ford
what does any of this have to do with the increase in property taxes we are being asked to vote on?
6:33 PM That's exactly right. People need to voice their opinions on the tax increase under this comment; but some on this blog want to play games. They enjoy making inunendos about the blog owner, Tom Ford. They make stupid and infantile statements and try to get him upset; making remarks about his son and/or family members, or "I feel an flip flop coming", and I think it's time to stop.
That, to me is not being a "voice of the people" it is a person who is trying to make personal inunendos about the blogmaster and I think it is over the top.
Tom is a big boy and in his sincerity has overlooked many comments. But, I still feel that some bloggers have no business being on this blog. All they do is waste time trying to instigate problems and it is of no purpose at all.
6:58 PM Blogger: Thank you, but they do have the right to make their comments whenever they wish. Far too many men and women have died to give that right to them!
It's what they do with it that matters. some here have chosen to reflect their intelligence while others have done just the opposite.
We owe the people who have insured their freedom to speak, but we do not have to agree with them, nor do we have to like what they say.
They are what they are, and this gives them a great vehicle to display their lack of self esteem and confidence!
Tom Ford
It appears from the last several days of comments that person(s) unknown simply want Tom and those who blindly support the Mayor to admit that the Mayor was a bad choice and can not be trusted.
Once given, I can only assume the tit-for-tat will be over and they will go away.
1:52 Well, that will never happen, because those people who voted for this mayor, feel those who voted for Fagan were wrong. Had the majority of the people felt things were going well the way they were, Roy would have never been elected. Those who opposed Roy will make excuses and reasons for why he won the election, and none of them are good. Those who voted for Roy did so because they were tired of the previous mayor and his administration and it's always been that way. Only before, we had no blog so that people could call each other names; but the rage was nevertheless there.
It's one side versus the other. Everyone doesn't agree that Roy was a bad choice, just like everyone doesn't agree that the Tom Fagan was a bad choice and both sides will never stop making excuses and will never give in.
And so it goes......
5:34, based on posts since yours and based on what is now becoming clear what Roy has done in the past year to ensure he ran unopposed, do you still feel that those who supported him think he was better than Fagan?
I sense Roy's family of supporters is growing smaller and the only reason is Ry himself
10:43 Not one more word from me will you get. Tired and don't care to argue.
A very wonderful person pased away in my family Friday, and as I sit here trying to explain my view of things on this blog, I realize that in the scheme of things in life, you have to walk away from some things. I choose to do that, if you don't mind.
Life is very fleeting and if you have only today to do something or say something, if it isn't constructive or if it falls on deaf ears, you have wasted your time. I have already wasted too much of mine.
I can comment until the cows come home about what I feel and think. But, people believe what they want to believe and that's the bottom line. Plus, it really doesn't matter what I think as you have made that perfectly clear.
So from now on, you are a US citizen and have the right to free speech so speak on.....
Thanks.
sorry for your loss, and thanks for granting me USA citizenship.
6:17 I didn't give you that right. The Constitution of the United States did. God Bless America. Happy Fourth of July
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