Tax information hot off the City web site, or why isn't it up to date?
Once again please click on the header for the "latest" tax information (2003!) from the Crestwood web site.
I know they are busy up there doing what Cities do, but I am being asked to shell out another .35 cents per hundred of assessed value with information from 2003!
Now, you and I know that things have changed since then, but what if I were part of an aspiring family who was looking for a City to move to from another State, and I opened this?
We paid a lot of money for that financial software (over $140,000.00 I believe,) so why arn't we doing something with it? I also know that "one page" reports seem to be all the rage now, but could we fire up the computer and come up to "real time? I for one would like to see a City P&L statement (you know the one you give to the bank) before I will vote for ANY tax increase!
Folks, I have no intention of trying to influence your vote here (all of you are much to smart for that,) but as for me, I will be voting negative until, and unless I see something that shows me I'm wrong.
An open letter to our leaders: Gentlemen, August 5th is not that far away. You do not have that much time to convenience us were wrong, so I would get going, or plan for a landslide defeat! While I am at it, this City is represented by nine individuals, duly elected who should be respected by everyone on that Dias. Please no more of the unfavorable remarks about fellow elected officials from the Dias! These are serious times, and they demand serious leaders to bring us through them, so let's get moving!
Tom Ford
NO. 517
I know they are busy up there doing what Cities do, but I am being asked to shell out another .35 cents per hundred of assessed value with information from 2003!
Now, you and I know that things have changed since then, but what if I were part of an aspiring family who was looking for a City to move to from another State, and I opened this?
We paid a lot of money for that financial software (over $140,000.00 I believe,) so why arn't we doing something with it? I also know that "one page" reports seem to be all the rage now, but could we fire up the computer and come up to "real time? I for one would like to see a City P&L statement (you know the one you give to the bank) before I will vote for ANY tax increase!
Folks, I have no intention of trying to influence your vote here (all of you are much to smart for that,) but as for me, I will be voting negative until, and unless I see something that shows me I'm wrong.
An open letter to our leaders: Gentlemen, August 5th is not that far away. You do not have that much time to convenience us were wrong, so I would get going, or plan for a landslide defeat! While I am at it, this City is represented by nine individuals, duly elected who should be respected by everyone on that Dias. Please no more of the unfavorable remarks about fellow elected officials from the Dias! These are serious times, and they demand serious leaders to bring us through them, so let's get moving!
Tom Ford
NO. 517
posted by Crestwood Independent at 17:14
107 Comments:
Tom,
You are on the MARK again! One would think that the City woudl be our in force explaining why the increase was needed and what they were going to do with it. So far all we know is they need more money and the increase will not go to increase of wages.
Pretty weak.
I asked some people at City Hall... some of the few that are still around from 2003 who put together the tax information. I was told that Matt Connnley did that. I was told he left in 2004, so, that might be the reason.
The city doesn't even have projections for next year on the finances. How you can ask for a tax increase if you won't even give an idea what next year's financial picture will look like? I know that the mayor is skeptical of projections, but COME ON! What are they hiding? If they want to get people to vote yes on Prop 1, it's time to show us what could happen if we don't. This "keeping services the same" argument isn't nearly as effective as "here's what would happen if our finances go down."
10:13 AM blogger: I am sure Matt did, however that's an excuse and not a reason for them to not up-grade the numbers.
I fear you, and all the rest of us are getting the "bum's rush" from City Hall, as by now we should have Someone who can produce the same thing!
I am appalled by the lack of any hard numbers for the voters to look at, as you must be as well! It's sort of like my asking each of you for $175.00 per year, and when you ask why, I just say "trust me!"
Well, "trust but verify" as Ronald Reagan once said, so since I am from Missouri, SHOW ME!
Tom Ford
Read this weeks Times under other actions at Crestwood, we are now going to have a pay plan. Interesting, want more money, need a pay plan. Why did they dump the old one and why do they now need a new one? Strange, very strange indeed.
Is the City of Crestwood aware of our global economy?
By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: June 23, 2008: 8:31 AM EDT
State, city layoffs: 45,000 and counting
A squeeze on tax revenues could force local leaders to cut tens of thousands of more jobs. That could add to the nation's economic woes
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The latest hit to the economy could come from state houses and city halls across the nation, which are in their worst budget crisis in years.
With falling revenue from sales and income taxes, and property-tax declines looming, states, cities and towns have already laid off tens of thousands of government employees. Many expect more job cuts ahead as public officials struggle to balance their budgets.
The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, a public employees union, says about 45,000 government layoffs have been announced this year.
Sounds like the City of Crestwood!
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/02/pf/retirement/vallejo.moneymag/index.htm?postversion=2008060305
Fat pensions spell doom for many cities
Vallejo, Calif., took the extreme step of filing for bankruptcy to get out of generous obligations to public employees. Other cities and states are watching.
By Janice Revell, Money Magazine senior writer
June 3, 2008: 5:49 AM EDT
NEW YORK (Money Magazine) -- The jig is up. For years, politicians have been playing what amounts to a multi-trillion-dollar shell game with state and local pensions. They've doled out lush retiree benefits to their heavily unionized workforces, knowing that they could shove the cost for those benefits onto future generations of taxpayers.
But a recent financial bombshell dropped by a San Francisco suburb shows why that shell game is now starting to unravel in a nasty way. And it's a cautionary tale that you can't afford to ignore.
Here's the skinny: In late May, Vallejo, Calif., became the largest city in California history to declare bankruptcy. Its financial demise was brought about partly by the real estate crash, which decimated home prices in the area and put a major dent in the city's tax revenues.
But the real nail in Vallejo's coffin was the city's labor costs. Under the current labor agreement, the average police officer walking the beat in Vallejo will be paid $122,000 this year before overtime, according to city documents. An average sergeant will make $151,000; a captain, $231,000. The average firefighter, meanwhile, will bring in $130,000 before overtime.
That's just the salaries, though. The final budget-crusher was the city's pension plan. Thanks to retroactive benefit enhancements approved by the city council in 2000, police officers and firefighters can now retire at age 50 and receive an annual pension equal to 90% of their final pay (assuming 30 years on the job), an amount that gets increased every year to help keep pace with inflation. The old plan had given the workers a pension equal to 60% of their final pay at age 50.
So a Vallejo police sergeant making $150,000 a year can now retire at age 50 and receive an annual pension of $135,000, increased each year for inflation. To put that amount in context, you would need to amass a retirement nest egg equal to about $3.5 million to produce a similar retirement income on your own.
It wasn't just police and firefighters who benefited from the city's largess. The annual pensions for rank-and-file city employees were jacked up from 60% of final pay at age 55 (after a 30-year career) to a whopping 80% of pay, increased each year for inflation.
Other towns in trouble
Here's the scary part: What's going on Vallejo isn't unique.
Back at the turn of this century, when the stock market was still booming, public pension plans across the country were suddenly overflowing with surplus money. Politicians responded by handing out heavily sweetened pensions.
Then, even though the stock market collapsed, politicians couldn't stop the trend. In 2001 alone, pension benefits were increased in at least 17 state plans, as well as some major cities.
For a while, inflated housing prices came to the rescue, handing many municipalities a windfall in increased property tax revenues.
Now that bubble has collapsed and the stock market is floundering. State pension plans alone are about $360 billion short of the assets they should ideally hold for future retirees, according to a recent report by the Pew Center on the States. And that's not including city plans.
Cities and states that enriched their benefits in the past few years are especially at risk. That's because no matter how badly a pension plan's investments perform, the enhanced pension benefits promised to state and local employees back in the boom times can't be taken away, or even modified - they are locked in by constitutional and legal guarantees.
There is, however, one potential option for cutting back on public pension benefits: bankruptcy. And that's what it has now come to in Vallejo. Elected officials in other struggling areas will surely be watching.
Of course, nobody wins in a bankruptcy. Vallejo must now slash services and lay off workers to make ends meet - a sad outcome for both the city workers and residents. Bankruptcy will also wreak havoc on the city's credit rating, making it much more expensive to borrow money for building roads and schools and maintaining the city's infrastructure.
So what's the lesson here? I'm certainly not suggesting that state and local workers be deprived of the pensions they were promised when they started their careers. That was part of the deal they signed up for and it should be honored. The police and firefighters of Vallejo, for example, were told they'd get a pension equal to 60% of their pay at age 50, and so they should.
But the practice of retroactively boosting public sector pensions without any serious debate or approval by taxpayers has got to stop. As the Vallejo debacle illustrates, the stakes are simply too high.
Historically, the justification for these types of pension enhancements has been that public sector workers are forgoing the salaries they would have otherwise received in the private sector, in exchange for better retirement benefits.
But that no longer seems to hold true. According to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics, the hourly salary (before benefits) of public-sector professionals (including teachers and lawyers) was $31.51 in December 2007, virtually identical to the $31.75 for private-sector professionals. Public-sector service employees (including many blue-collar jobs) averaged $16.72 an hour in salary, compared to $9.87 for private-sector employees.
This is an election year. As such, many states and municipalities are under heavy pressure to sweeten the pension plans for their workers - Massachusetts, South Carolina and Pennsylvania are but three high-profile examples. And ironically, just a few hours south of Vallejo, the city of Rialto, Calif., recently approved a similar retroactive pension increase that will give police officers a pension equal to 90% of their salaries at age 50.
The bottom line: If similar changes are being considered in your city or state, the Vallejo disaster tells you that it's well worth your while to get the facts.
Maybe you'll discover that your local pension fund is flush with money and that elected officials in your area have out laid out a sound, fiscally responsible plan for funding any pension improvements. But I wouldn't bank on it.
Questions or comments about retirement? Send e-mails to jrevell@moneymail.com
5:00 PM blogger: your information coupled with this info may well produce "the perfect storm!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/27/cnbarclays127.xml
Tom Ford
Trust, now there is the problem, can we trust our Mayor to tell us the the truth, to know the truth, to act on the truth? Just remember last fall's statements about not needing a tax increase,there was no perfect storm, etc.
Truest, can we trust him?
11:20 Am blogger: Leaves a lot of room for doubt, no?
Tom Ford
4:20 June 27
If I am correct I believe the reason the BOA requested a pay plan is because the City's Code "requires the Personnel director (City Administrator) to prepare annually a pay plan for submittal to the BOA".
If that is the case, what has the City been using for it's pay plan since it did away with the only plan it ever had 3 years ago? Again, current administration plays with the Code and Charter like they were toys from a Cracker Jack box.
Did'nt our Mayor tell us that having a Dept. Head act as our C/A was too much power in one persons hands? What's new now?
10:28 AM blogger: Nothing, or as they say S.S.D.D.!
Tom Ford
10:28A.M. I suppose because the city employee's haven't had a pay plan in 5 years. Plus they also haven't had evaluations on their performance in 5 years too.
You would think these would be major issues that should have been addressed. Talk about dodging the bullet.
Tom,
Stop embarrasing your son.
What's new now?
The fact that Karl Kestler is a respected department head who has absolutley no ego and no desire to remain CA long term. Totally not Don Greer!
8:40 Am blogger: Stop embarrassing yourself, show some chutzpah, give us your name, your real verifiable name. Or didn't you get a letter today so you could remember it?
Tom Ford
I voted today (absentee) because I will be working the poll's on 8/5 in Fenton as a supervisors assistant.
Interesting ballot to say the least, and no I will not tell you how I voted!
Tom Ford
Yeah, hard to use that assessment calculator on the city Web site if you have a Mac. Looks like Crestwood is only PC compatible. Figures they'd still be in the stone age
9:37 I agreed with your comment completely.
If 10:28 knew Karl Kestler, they would know that Karl is a first class person with more intergrity in his little finger than Don Greer ever had. He has no pre-conceived plan for his own dynasty.
I have known Karl for almost 30 years and they don't come any better than him. Further, he would never want to step into that job permanently. At one time Fire Chief Bill Kramer was Acting City Administrator also. He did an awesome job too, until we found a permanent CA.
Karl Kestler served under Chief Kramer and was taught by him. Neither would ever compromise their principles by being bias and always treated people fairly. So once again, 10:28 you are a pitiful example of trying to demise anything you can come up with just to make this adminitration look bad and you have not one once of basis to stand on.
So, go soak your head!!!!! You are so bogged down with manure and are so full of balony, you need a laxative. Take one, you might feel better.
In defense of the 10:28 poster, he or she said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Chief Kestler. The only thing mentioned was the seemingly changes in position by this mayor.
I should know as I used to be a fervent supporter.
You however, resort to ad hominem attacks and once again, Don Greer, or should I say the late Don Greer is mentioned.
Thanks 5:54, like its's been said about Roy's supporters like 9:37 and 3:44 anything that is the truth that put Roy in a bad light because of his actions must be countered by bring up Greer or attacking the poster. They have done it again
5:54 Attack! No not an attack at all. Don Greer WAS city administrator not an ACTING city administrator. So, your comparison is wrong. And there is no way Karl Kestler would want the job full time. He is merely trying to help the City.
Further, people are applyng for the position of City Administrator for Crestwood right now. Kestler isn't a power monger and will gladly go back to fire chief whenever it is time for someone new to step in.
Also I could care less if you are for or against this mayor; I don't care if you changed your mind and use to be a supporter and now you had a change of heart. People have a right to change their minds after they feel they have used bad judgement or didn't think things through.
What's gripes me and is hyocritical however is, you can change your mind and no longer support this mayor; but the mayor can't change his mind and now be for a tax increase. So you give yourself an allowance for changing your thinking, but it's not OK for the Mayor. It's funny how you and others can reverse things and make them look Oh so bad when the mayor does the very same thing you do. Shame on him, right?
Well,people which includes the Mayor, do have that right to change their minds like it or not; and you so stated it yourself. Quote: "I used to be a fervent supporter". So stop casting stones but if you insist on still casting them, cast one at yourself too.
6:15 Hey Pal, I didn't bring up the Greer word, they did. Kestler is only ACTING CA; there is a difference. Just thought you would want to know.
Tom,
Stop embarrasing your son.
6:15 PM -
How often can the mayor change his mind? Once, twice, three or four times? When do principles kick in? If you say one thing and do another is that OK?
The 3:44PM poster (whoever that was) brought up Greer. Here's the quote - "they would know that Karl is a first class person with more intergrity in his little finger than Don Greer ever had. He has no pre-conceived plan for his own dynasty."
Watch Roy at a board meeting. Look at what he says in the papers. Does Roy act like a mayor or a king? Roy changing his mind is just part of the problem.
So with all the changes in his mind, the real question that must be answered is "what does Roy really stand for"?
I do not doubt his love for Crestwood, but that alone does not mean he has a clue on what to do as the Mayor.
No Mayor will say and do everything you think he should do or say. Once he says it or does it, you may be against it. Then after you think about it, you may change your mind. We all do it every day of our lives. You and I have never been a mayor. I do not and probably never will agree with Roy. Some of the things he does I don't like. Some of his actions I also do not like but there are some things I do like.
It will always be that way no matter who is in office. I just hope that when the next mayor comes along, you will also see that you will waiver in your favoritism and realize that they will all make mistakes.
9:11 PM blogger: Still didn't get a letter a? You know a coward is an embarrassment to his entire family, right?
Well buck up and give us your name, or shut up and slink back into the shadows where you can tell your family what a hero you are, they won't buy it, but you can try!
Tom Ford
Tom,
God loves you and so do I, but please just stop embarrasing your self, your family,as well as you son
Why not just stop embarrassing yourself and leave this blog alone.
Are you a cop? Are you one of those locker room loud mouths who choose to harrass Tom's son and belittle him cause you dislikehis dad? If so, why not meet Tom face to face and let him know how you feel instead of hiding behind your badge and/or your desire to remain anonymous.
I am really getting sick of you and your horn mouth when your motives are really only trying to create problems. I thought cops were suppose to stop problems and not create them. Nobody really cares about your drival.
Lastly, Tom's son is not your son; so if he has a problem with his father, let him discuss it with Tom; it's none of your business and you know it.
10:06 PM blogger: Thanks for the vote of confidence!
This poster is not a cop believe me, my God how could we ever hire a self absorbed useless fool like that?
Remember the first amendment? I do, and I will exercise my right to it any time and any where!
By the way, the server I use can now give me the computer address of any poster now, and by extension their name and address, so......
Tom Ford
I think the poster is a member of the fire fighters union who is attacking Tom because he is not supporting the tax increase
Tom,
Keep up the good work on telling everyone to Vote No to the tax increase in Crestwood.
thanks
Matt Conley is at St. Ann marketing TIF's, TDD's, and CID's to bankrupt their city.
Matt knows how to help the developers and leave the city with the debt.
Who will benefit from this tax increase?
Whitecliff?
Public Works?
Police?
Fire?
Street Department?
Subcontractors?
10:22 PM -
Who will benefit? Primarily the boa and mayor. They will be able to spend as they have been without making any "tough" cuts. It will be the status quo up at city hall.
10:20 Oh now it's all Matt Conley's fault. Oh Sure! He was the man with sole authority to order the Tax Increment Financing in Crestwood. NOT!
Matt Conley did what he was told to do, by his supervisor, the CA, and the mayor and board of aldermen or it would have never happened. He did his job, that's all!
He is very good at his job and well liked in St. Ann. After leaving Crestwood with all it's garbage, he sure as heck learned what NOT to do.
I am with you Matt!
I'm glad you are with Matt. He may or may not have did his job well.
However, I dealt with Matt on several occasions when he was in Crestwood. He was not at all friendly or helpful.
You got that right, he did what ever Kent told him to do.
Tom,
As I understand it, the citys' website is down because a hacker got in and inserted a virus that could have infected other computers so the city IT person shut it down. Not sure when it will be restored.
10:34 AM blogger: If that's the case the should turn it over to the FBI!
The Fed's are taking a very dim view of that sort of thing now.
Tom Ford
Why would anyone anyone take the time and risk to fool with a website for a city of under 13,000 people? That, like many other claims coming out of City Hall these days, is way to much to believe.
I think it was shut down by our "City Fathers" until after the election to keep voters in the dark as the to the real money condition be looking at audited reports.
I smell a desperate rat.
11:18 AM blogger: It's a thought, but on the other hand maybe they are re-doing it with a more up to date style and information (right!)
Like you however I find it hard to believe anyone with half a brain would want to "hack" into a site where virtually nothing of importance is displayed.
If we want to go there, we could get into a "conspiracy theory" mode, and say it was because some "sensitive" things came out at BOA meetings, and needed to be "scrubbed" before they were noticed.
The truth is, it may well indeed be some kid with more time than sense playing in an area he / she has no business in (hence the FBI.)
In any case it must be fixed, and soon if any further information is to be given to the citizens reference the tax increase!
Speaking of that, I hope and pray they are not planning to spend our money on mailers telling us they need more money. Because if they do, that will frost the cake for me!
Tom Ford
Tom, maybe so, but this sure removes the ability for citizens to review minutes of past meetings and to have agendas of upcoming meetings. Makes it nearly impossible to know what the true needs of the City is before th election.
Brings to mind the "paper shredding nights at City Hall" of the past.
2:45 PM blogger: Right you are! Interesting that this would happen at such an "opportune" time, no?
It's sort of the dog ate my homework type deal.
Now, are they smart enough to have thought this up by themselves? That's why I have doubts!
Tom Ford
Food for thought:
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough
to take away everything you have." - Thomas Jefferson
Tom Ford
The "City Fathers" may not be smart enough to think this up by themselves but include the tax increase supporters such as the Fire Fighters Union and you got another story.
10:20 AM blogger: True enough, but would the be dumb enough to subject themselves to prosecution if in fact it was hacked?
If it wasn't, and it was just taken down, someone knows that, and it will get out!
The "Hell's Angles" bikers have a saying that fit's here, "Three people can keep a secret, as long as two of them are dead," so we will find out the truth, because at least three will be involved!
Tom Ford
This issue of the city website being hacked sounds a little paranoid to me. It also sounds dubious to me to think of sabitage or an intentional omission by the city.
You will have to give me concrete evidence before I believe it if only due to the fact that if you are a computer person, you should well know that they are not 100% all the time.
My computer has crashed on me many times; and the system has gone down too. I don't want to argue the point; however, I am sure those who are already upset with this administration in general will be ready to disagree with me and take me to the barn for a lashing.
It seems when I want to do a project or something important, that is always the time my computer decides to let me down.
Just a thought cause it seems that almost all comments under this article, so far point to disception on the part of the city as the reason.
2:26 PM blogger; I was told by Mr. Burke Wasson today the the mayor's secretary said it had been hacked, and a virus installed.
That's what I am going with unless we see some concrete proof otherwise. All the other remarks are conjecture (mine included,) and as such make for interesting reading, but that's about all.
I am still calling for an investigation by the FBI into just who may have done this, and why, as this is an important site for information for all of us.
I really think we need to know, and the FBI should be able to find out quickly by tracking the "hits" on that day.
Tom Ford
10:20 Tell me more about this "Firefighters Union"!!! I need a Spooky Story to tuck my grandkids into bed tonight.
How long will it take to fix, 3 weeks? My computer has crashed and it never took 3 wks to fix. Why would a hacker install a virus, and how did the City find that out?bnwslvse
8:27 PM blogger: I don't know of any such stories. They are a union just like any other union who banded together to gain a better working environment.
How that's possible in firefighting I will never know, but unlike other fire unions in some of the fire protection districts (Mehlville for instance) they are a productive force for Crestwood.
I know we are very lucky to have such a dedicated group in Crestwood, and I also know they are NOT part of the problem in this City.
Tom Ford
However, I dealt with Matt on several occasions when he was in Crestwood. He was not at all friendly or helpful.
That's funny, I delt with him many times and know a few others who also did and he was always nice and responsive... Are you sure you were talkning with him and not Don Greer?
Matt Conley is at St. Ann marketing TIF's, TDD's, and CID's to bankrupt their city.
Matt knows how to help the developers and leave the city with the debt.
Sounds like you know everyting! Do you care to give a specific example or are you just into making up stuff you clearly don't know anything about? I'd be very careful making comments like that unless you have facts to back them up.
2:58 I totally agree. Matt wasn't going to waste his time around Crestwood long term. He is young and has a degree in administration. The way things were going in Crestwood at that time, he was smart to go to another city.
2:54 July 7th I agree. The person who said he dislikes Matt probably spoke with Don Greer and not Matt Conley which would explain the situation; but Oh Heavens don't say anything negative about Don Greer!!!! Everytime I try to explain things that happened while he was CA, someone gets their head out of joint about it. And of course, they have to mention that he passed away which has zip to do with anything.
Matt was always willing to help anyone. Everyone in St. Ann is happy with Matt Conley. He is pursuing his career and is doing a great job.
The TIF's, etc. don't blame on Matt. That's balony. St. Ann, just as Crestwood, has a mayor and 8 aldermen which will have the final say on things. If they don't want the TIF's or the rest of this development chaos, they won't approve it pure and simple. You think Matt had the clout and power in Crestwood to put these things through and bankrupt us? If you think that, you are an idiot. There are 8 men and 1 mayor; last time I checked, they are the ones who pass bills and approve things; not the CA.
"However, I dealt with Matt on several occasions when he was in Crestwood. He was not at all friendly or helpful.
That's funny, I delt with him many times and know a few others who also did and he was always nice and responsive... Are you sure you were talkning with him and not Don Greer?"
Yes, that is funny. I remember when Matt Conley was running a TIF meeting for the Kohl's property. I thought he was smart-aleck and abrasive. Then later, I made a FOI request. He was not happy, just looked down, shook his head and walked away. If you liked Conley, well good for you. As for me, I hope he stays in St. Ann.
"Matt was always willing to help anyone."
Really! Which Matt Conley did you know? Where was this? Fantasy Island?
"Everyone in St. Ann is happy with Matt Conley." Again really? Great! Please list everyone you spoke to and exactly what they said. I'm assuming you spoke to the mayor, aldermen, city officials, police department, etc. And please give their exact quote. After all, I'm assuming that since you made such a statement you have the details to back it up.
Mrs. Matt Conley still reads this blog, wonder if she still posts on it?
If you look at the audits during the time Matt was working for Kent you will see a large amount of tax money spent by Matt for computer hardware and software that he had all over the desks in the old Board meeting room. This may have been with or without Kent's approval but it was spent then and not with the Boards ok. It stopped when Greer took over.
Oops, I forgot the City's website is down due to evil hackers who just happened to pick Crestwood out as their city to attack. So we the voters have no way to access the information we need on line
My my, do pigs really fly?
You brought up an interesting point. Why would hackers or a virus or whatever target the city's website?
Matt couldn't order a flyswatter without approval. You want to know the truth about computer purchases? Greer's whole existence was computers. He was obcessed with computer technology. You want to know who the computers were purchased by, it was Greer with the approval of Kent. So don't blame anything on Matt cause he wasn't the final word on anything.
You, again, just want to think Matt was the cause of things since it makes you feel so good to accuse him, since you dislike him so much. You can blame him for being unsocial or unresponsive, or lacking in communications, etc. but I can tell you he did not waste city money. Just like you, some people like you and some, as I, think you are full of manure. Also, you may dislike what I say, but that doesn't make me a bank robber!!!!
Kent gave Greer everything he wanted, and Greer took it; then Kent would tell the Finance person to find the money. And what did they both get for being so compliant with Greer? They both got canned and Greer got the job he always wanted in the first place. Nice loyalty and payback. A truism whether you believe it or not; make no difference to me.
Here we go with Greer again. Greer this and Greer that and Greer who and Greer wow and Greer whatever.
I knew you wouldn't like it but that's the way it goes like it or not. If you would rather skip the name, Greer, in the comments, you might be able to understand the truth. However, since you are under a spell, and refuse to understand the heart of the issue, it's just too bad about you not liking or understanding what you should have known long ago. Deaf and cannot hear; blind and cannot see.
You have no problem when people are naming Roy, do you? Just Greer, Huh? Strange!
12:26, Dear lover of Roy and Hater of Greer, in the time Matt was buying all the computer stuff the C/A was Kent, not Greer. Are you saying that Greer told Kent ( his boss) what to do?
PLEASE, try to keep a grip on reality.
Greer did it all the time. If you choose not to believe me, that's your problem so continue carrying on about it. I am just telling the truth and it's way to hot and humid outside to argue about it with you.
You crack me up with the Roy Lover Greer Hater thingy!!!!! You sound like a third grader!!!!
So you are telling all who read this blog that from your first hand, you were there when it happened, saw it with your own two eyes, heard it with your own two ears, that Kent was a puppet run by Greer?
Are you telling me it would make any difference to you if I saw and heard? You know it wouldn't. Not in the least.
Yes, it would, I am sick to death of you'r and others claim to know things with out any support to your claims, like this most current one, that Greer ran Kent.
My question is simple to answer and does not disclose your ID, did your see this or hear this with your own ears and eyes or is just a rumor you want to continue to spread to protect this mayor and Kent?
3:37 PM You say, "yes it would" but you lie.
I do not spread rumors and frankly it is an insult to me for you to think I could or would spread rumors,in other words, LIE about anybody whether friend or foe. If I saw something or heard something or anything that is wrong, I will say so. Otherwise, If I have any doubts, I will keep my mouth shut or tell you I am not sure.
Yes I have heard and seen things with my own eyes and ears and heard threats given to Kent by Greer, that if Greer didn't get his way, he would quit. That's the way it was; take it or leave it.
I am getting sick and tired of people believing things that were untrue and those that stick up for people who didn't know how to treat a dog much less people at the City of Crestwood. Take it or leave that too, for all I care. You learn honesty and truthfulness when you are growing up. That's the way it was in my house!!!
You and others don't even begin to know everything about what happened in the City, and frankly, I have had enough of your cat and mouse routine. Unfortunately, you get all your information second hand, I don't.
Greer is gone. It shouldn't mean anything anymore anyhow BUT some of the comments on this blog are so ridiculously wrong that when I try to explain something that happened in which Greer was involved in, I get called a Greer hater. And then again, when I try to explain things that are thrown at Roy in that mess that was going on during the Kent/Greer years, I get called a Roy Lover. And all I try to do is give an explanation. Roy Lover, Greer Hater - give me a break. If it wasn't so stupid of a statement, I could almost laugh.
To set the record straight, I have seen and heard things from Roy I am not so crazy about too. I have never stated that he wasn't off the mark a lot of times.
Now that you have heard me, I will bet you that, like I said before, you STILL don't believe me even though you say you will.
You are just trying to flush out my name is all you are trying to do; just like any good lawyer DOES AS I AM SURE YOU ARE ONE.
Like my father USE TO SAY TO ME: "I judge people, not by what they say, but by what they do". I have never lied about Greer or anybody AND you can take it to the bank.
Now, how much you wanna bet, this still isn't good enough for you and others. Why? Evidently, because you do what others do; you believe what you want to believe period!!!!!
All who hold Mr. Greer in high esteem, please know that I am only answering the previous blogger who asked me a question. So please, don't start with the four letter words, calling me names, or trying to hurt me cause enough is enough. Now let it rest, please.
So you were there years ago in person when Greer threatened Kent? Why didnt you report this action then to the Mayor who ever she or he was, the members of the Board or at least the press?
Why not, because you were afraid to use you name on any claim you make,just like today, all these years later.
5:20 CHICKEN!!!
If Kent let Greer run him the Board should have gotten rid of Kent a lot sooner for having no spine.
6:06 Told Yeah you would distrust me no matter what if I told the truth, and sure enough, I gave you the truth and you still don't believe me. Told Yeah; Told Yeah. I Answered your questions just as you requested; now you asking more. Why this; why that! You Lied trying to make me believe you were honestly wanting the truth from me; but you didn't.
I have answered your questions and you still are not satisfied. Told Yeah! Also, in answer to your question, I don't see you using your name but you want mine, just as I suspected. And still another lie-before in your previous comment you said I wouldn't need to identify myself; now you are blaming me because I didn't. You are just as I thought not a person of your word.
6:08 CHICKEN YOU SAY. Takes one to know one. Don't see you signing your name. Easy to point your finger at me; when you do the same thing. Sounds like you learned how to harrass and manipulate, just like someone I used to know.
cluck cluck cluck,
where were you standing when you saw Greer threaten Kent?
Come on folks, leave Sandy alone.
You choose to use this blog as "tongue in Cheek", making fun of, and seeking out those who would play into your lust for sarcasm. I am sure that you are also the same blogger who chooses to use the F Word on this blog, as you would stoop that low.
If you wanted to ask me any direct questions, with one ounce of integrity, I would answer them and sign my name.
However, as I peruse this blog and see that you have no integrity, don't expect me to stoop so low as to answer you in any way shape or form.
It is people like you that are a source of embarrassment to those of us who have done nothing to deserve your rath or the rath of others. In your life, you have a right to protect yourself, and so do I. And you would use that right if anything came upon you that was unfair and unethical and you know it.
It's a pity that you are in such good health and have no big problems which allow you all this free time to thwart others, and allows you to use this blog so liberally. I have more important things to do, so stop assuming thing by posting my name on this blog as if you are somehow better than I.
If all you have time for is meaningless loathing for me as to superimpose your ill humor along with my name, please find someone else. You and people like you do not embrace life to it's fullest and for that I am very sad.
Peace be with you.
Sandy Grave
7:45 AM blogger: I agree fully! Sandy is one of the very few who posts her name here (a fete that takes some intestinal fortitude apparently!)
It's very easy to snipe at someone from the "cheap seats," but please remember she was on the front line for 30 years at City hall! Sandy has seen the "good, the bad, and the ugly" in Crestwood politics, and she knows where the bodies are buried!
Personally, in any conversation reference City Hall during her time frame, I am coming down on her side! She was there, she experienced it first hand 8 hours a day for 30 years!
Some of us think we know better, but I guarantee you she trumps all but the "actual players!"
So unless you were an "actual player," and wish to sign your real name to your posts, I am asking you to cease and desist when it comes to this lady, and remember, I have the delete switch!
Tom Ford
Tom, no one was using Sandy's name until poster 7:45 and they simple asked posters leave her alone. A simple request since no has used her name on this thread.
I dont know understand your or her posts in that regard.
6:50 PM Are you for real or are you just nieve? Are we suppose to buy into your innocent explanation in defense of 7:45's comment? You must really think we are all stupid.
Why would 7:45 specifically mentioned my name when there are many people over the years who have heard things going on behind closed doors and open doors where Mr. Greer was in deep discussions with Kent. So why would anyone want to place just my name in the mix? To defend me, you say? From what? Anybody reading the comments on this blog could have readily felt it was somebody else; until my name was mentioned (on purpose).
Do you think for one minute that people including past department heads and supervisors didn't see and hear the self-impressed police chief/ca doing what he did best, getting his way, threatening to quit if he didn't get what he wanted from Kent? If so, you are very wrong.
You think it was a big secret? Don Greer wanted people to know it. He hid nothing from anyone about his exploits with women and his future expectations including being CA some day. How do I know? Like I said, it was common knowledge. All the department heads knew it. He loved the fact that he was able to get more out of the city than any other department head, and rubbed it in everybody's face. But, you say, I am the one that should be named for making comments on this blog about Kent and Greer, but nobody else should be named? You silly, foolish person.
The City of Crestwood has many stories to be told. Many of the ones you hear on this blog are pure conjecture or half truths and half rumor. Elected officials have to learn to suck up being called names or bearing the brunt of jokes and innuendos; but I am not an elected official and I don't have to take any of your bull for anything. Get it. I have paid my dues and have moved on with my life in spite of people like you, and I suggest you do the same.
Now, if you would please, stop the insanity and leave it to me to sign my name on this blog if I say something, and not you. And stop playing coy, it doesn't suit you at all.
Sandy Grave
"there are many people over the years who have heard things going on behind closed doors and open doors where Mr. Greer was in deep discussions with Kent."
Interesting, I have to wonder if those things over heard were illegal in any way and if so, why those many people didn't report what they heard?
If it was not illegal what those many people overheard, then what difference did it make what was said? After all, it was a conversation meant for a boss and one of his supervisors, and in the business world these types of conversations take place all the time.
What I don't understand is why Kent, the boss of the City employees, would allow a work environment where his private conversations to one of his Dept Heads could be listened to by nosey busy bodies through closed doors? I don't understand why Kent would keep anyone who was sneaking around and listening in and blabbing to everyone what they heard between him and a Dept Head say behind closed doors?
I mean what value to the City would there be to have on the tax payers payroll people who were sneaking around listening in on others conversations? Was that all they were good for, paid spies? And then not to report it if it was illegal, I dont get it at all/
More reasons the BOA should have fired Kent sooner, he wasn't managing his people at all.
9:12 As I understand the previous comments, those I have read, the word illegal in lieu of Greer was never mentioned. Sneaking around and being spies were also not suggested in any comments.
Therefore, what should people at city hall have reported if they had heard anything? Department heads and clerks and secretaries as well as residents walk through the halls of the city, and personnel walk back and forth all day long up and down the halls. Each department head in the city has an office and most doors are always open. So what's with the "sneaking" and "spying" deal? I don't get you.
Nobody ever said, to my knowledge that Greer did anything illegal; just unethical and self-motivating. Greer, making demands on your boss (in this case Kent) is not illegal and is not a crime. Therefore, why should any department head or supervisor or anyone feel the need to speak with Kent about what they knew or heard? Kent was the one who OK'd everything for Greer and was in charge of personnel. Dealing with Greer or any other department head was his job. You think they should have walked in Kent's office and told him how to do his job? I don't think so.
Also had they circumvented Kent and gone to the mayor with anything, I can almost bet they would have been fired for insubordination.
Time to get back to comments under the original article which has to do with the tax issue.
Speaking of tax increase...
taken from http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/political-fix/political-fix/2008/06/st-louis-county-voters-may-face-four-tax-bond-proposals-in-a-short-time/
by Phil Sutin
St. Louis County voters may see four money-raising proposals — three tax increases and a bond issue — in back-to-back major elections starting in November if county officials follow recommendations of a blue-ribbon commission.
The proposals would be:
> A half-cent transit sales tax increase and a “no-tax-increase” bond issue that could exceed $100 million on the ballot in the general election in November.
> A 1.85-cent use tax and a one eighth-cent parks sales tax before voters in the local elections in April.
The tax increases and bond issue deal with “critical issues that need attention,” former St. Louis County Councilman Skip Mange, the commission chairman, said on Tuesday.
The bond issue would require a four-sevenths favorable vote to pass. The other proposals would need a simple majority. If the two sales tax proposals pass, a county resident buying a vehicle worth $20,000 would pay an additional $125 in sales taxes. Businesses would pay almost all the use tax.
The commission decided on its recommendation on June 17, but won’t formally submit its views to County Executive Charlie Dooley until it completes a report. Before voters can consider the matter, Dooley has to ask the county council to put proposals on the ballot and the council must agree. The deadline for putting proposals on the November ballot is Aug. 26.
The 15-member blue-ribbon commission since last April has been considering the county’s needs for buildings, roads, upgrades for parks and public safety and projects for economic development. The group then has looked at ways to pay for the needs.
The half-cent sales tax increase would raise about $80 million a year for Metro’s transit system. County officials want half of that money to help support bus and rail service and half for expansion of MetroLink.
If the proposal passes, the county would reduce the transit system’s share of a different half-cent sales tax that has helped subsidize Metro since 1973 and use additional money from that tax for the county’s arterial roads.
County voter approval of the half-cent transit tax would trigger a one-fourth cent increase in St. Louis’s transit tax. City voters approved the tax in 1997, but officials never levied it because it was tied to a transit tax increase that failed in the county in the same election.
The county staff had discussed a $120 million bond issue. But Mange said officials have not yet determined the size of the bond issue they could propose without raising taxes. Among the calculations would be a guess at interest rates that would be available when the county sells the bonds.
The bond issue could help pay for such items as a new family courts building, relocation and expansion of county crime and health labs, renovation of the courts building and development of a countywide animal shelter at a building the county recently bought in Olivette.
A no-tax-increase bond issue, however, increases the time voters would pay a property tax for debt service. In such bond issues, governments structure new bond issue so they would pay off most of the new bonds after they retire existing ones.
A county use tax would raise $30 million a year. Half the money would go to public safety, park improvements and economic development. The other half would finance local government services.
A 1.85-cent use tax county use tax could help finance development of a $75 million public safety radio system that would allow police, fire and emergency medical personnel to communicate with one another at a disaster, accident or crime scene.
The one-eighth cent parks tax would generate about $13 million a year. The staff suggested using about $7 million a year for park improvements. The staff said the county could borrow $70 million through a lease-purchase agreement, the staff said. It would retire the debt using parks tax money allocated for improvements.
Among potential parks projects are the rebuilding of the recreation complex in Veterans Memorial Park in north St. Louis County, renovation of the Greensfelder recreation complex in Queeny Park in west St. Louis County and improvements to the Kennedy recreation complex in south St. Louis County.
Having four tax and bond proposals so close together could trigger a voter backlash, particularly in April. Mange said officials could review their options after the November election and put off part or all of the proposals the commission recommends for April. If officials choose to delay, voters could possibly see some of the proposals in the 2010 general election.
The use tax is more important than the parks tax because of the need for the public safety communications system, Mange said.
10:37 not sneaking around? How else would someone be able to overhear a conversation being held closed behind doors unless they were snooping?
And the words many people over heard, how could that happen behind closed doors as the C/A's office can not be accessed unless you were sitting in his secy's desk. Who was that person(s)?
Stick to the subject of this article. The article is about tax information hot off the city website.
You are not in a court of law and you are not cross-examining someone on trial, J.R. You are solely out to intimidate and nobody is buying it.
Have another vodka.
5:12 as prevously stated; doors were not always closed.
When it came to sneaking around, you were the best.
If you look at the audits during the time Matt was working for Kent you will see a large amount of tax money spent by Matt for computer hardware and software that he had all over the desks in the old Board meeting room.
Yes, Matt did do computer stuff.. He built computers for the parks department, city clerk's office, fire department and public works... on HIS own time.. to save money. Don Greer took care of himself and the Police Department.
Matt tried to take care of everbody else and Don made him a scapegoat to cover his own tracks. If you don't believe me, ask Chief Kestler, Carol, the former City Clerk or the former Parks Director.
1:27, pure B.S.
Thank you 1:27 you are right on.
2:46 you are the one full of BS. And I applaud 1:27, as the person who told the truth. Just ask those people who were there when Matt Conley was there. Those people mentioned by 1:27 have no reason to lie. They know.
Again, you and others, choose to believe tripe because you are all full of it and want to condemn others instead of sticking it to those who really killed this city.
So if I were you, I would start walking on the right track for once and while you are at it, take a shower and get the manure smell off of yourself cause you are the one full of BS.
Thank God someone on this blog has sense enough to tell it like it was. If only you could do that more often.
Poster 1:27, pure B.S.?
Sorry bud, or is it J.R., Timmy T. or perhaps the Mistress DM. Everybody who worked at Crestwood during this time new that big Don was KING Computer, didn't gave a rat's a** about anybody other than himself and would gladly throw sombody like Matt under the bus to save himself.
If it is you J.R., I concur with Poster 7:48 PM, July 12, 2008, have another vodka, keep your hands to yourself and be thankful you aren't a guest of the State of Missouri!
7:50 Finally! Thank God! Plaudits to you. You have made my day and it's about time.
Matt Conley did a great job for the city and will do a great job no matter where he goes because he has great ethics and is not afraid of hard work.
You go Matt!
"Just ask those people who were there when Matt Conley was there."
Give me their names and I'll ask them.
1:27 already told you. Chief Kestler, Carol Schniderhahn the former City Clerk and Lisa Blumer, the former Parks Director. But, I'm sure you already new their names.
Ok 10:01, I'm going to print out your claims and take them to the people you list and ask them if they agree with your position.
Let's see, the Chief I can still get a hold of without any problem, Ms.Schniderhan is a Aunt of one of my friends, so that shouldn't be a problem. Ms. Blumer, I have no idea where she went after Roy fired her, got a lead for me to follow to find her?
Have any others I should contact in case none of these want to give their testimony? And one more thing, what makes you think I already knew who you were talking about? I didn't.
Answer to your last question. Because you are having too much fun trying to prove your point.
I don't believe for a second you know how to get in touch with any of those persons except Kester because if you were so close to them, they would have already told you that you are so wrong about everything.
So you also lie to make yourself look belivable.
Too bad you want to play games when everyone else wants to be serious. Too bad you have to lie to us to prove your point. Not good.
Never said I was close to them, like you seem to be, just said I know how to contact two of them and asked if you knew how to reach the 3rd person. If you cant provide her contact info, then I asked if you could provide someone else who can support your claims.
So what am I lying about now?
Lisa as I understand it works for some non-profit group but if you want to get in touch with her, all you need to do is call the community center and talk to one of the clerk's. She may no love for this mayor, but she knows all about Mr. Greer too.
Further, I would love for you to contact these people mentioned on this blog because therein will be the truth.
With Karl, I hope and pray you call him. He has been there lots of years and knows what is going on. Ask him how he had to fight to keep his girl from getting canned by Don Greer because she wasn't one of Greer's girls and was too darn old to be part of his herem. And maybe he will even tell you that the previous fire chief, Bill Kramer, knew that Don Greer was bad news and was told by Greer that he would be the next city administrator. And if you think for one minute that Chief Kramer is a liar, you will never really want the truth.
I am not saying that this mayor is doing everything perfect because he has made some major mistakes. But don't get started on the previous administrations and think you have all the answers because all you are hearing is heresay or what those involved then want you to know. Do, please do call these people and you will be surprised what you will find out. Line up all your questions one by one and then let's us all know what you found out.
When you do, I will then call them all myself and find out if what you say is true because I know them one on one.
Yes by all means, talk to some of the victims of the previous administration.
I have no idea where she went after Roy fired her, got a lead for me to follow to find her?
Actually, Greer fired her. He always hated parks and recreation people Lisa is now the Parks Director in the City of Ellisville.
3:48 Hooray. Then let the questioner call Lisa.
And actually if he/she wants another view besides Lisa's, I want to make sure that the idiot makes especially sure they talk to Ms. Schneiderhahn because she also knows the dirty, rotton shame given to Lisa by the dirty, rotten scoudrell Greer. I am excited; she should be able to tell him/her some great stories. I can't wait. Thanks for the correction.
A great deal of steam has built up over the years at city hall. Much as a consequence of activity which did not enhance our city nor our history. John Grisham would have had fodder galore. No murders, just a lot of hanky pank, nasty politics; greed and intrigue. Lots of discontent, coverups, distrust, bad decisions and ANGER.
When the cash was rolling in things could go unnoticed. Now, the butter has melted. The word accountability has raised its long abandoned head.
All the posts about the past are relevant because they point out the lack of integrity and restraint that residents have had to deal with in their city government. Things which prevent them from wanting to enrich the tax pot without formidable insurance. It has not been a proud era. The lawsuits alone are outrageous. The lack of oversight further so. We actually let a lazy Mayor pass the C/A throne to a Police Chief, who turned this city upside down and assumed a role best described as clandestine. The BOA is now dealing with fallout and is faced with the lurid and preposterous consequences of this past.
No one thinks dredging up the past will change anything particular. But it needs to be on the table so officials amd residents are aware of its existance and significance. The carpet at city hall has so much underneath that the bumps must be addressed. Until such time as elected officials pull their weight and address the needed change that needs to happen to chase away the ghosts of the past, we will just continue to brood. No, we don't want to brood. We want the leadership that we saw on all the election handouts and bravado at the polls.
3:48 Good for Lisa. I am glad she rose from the ashes. She is a good person and didn't deserve what she got from the man who would be King, Greer.
"Yes by all means, talk to some of the victims of the previous administration."
Do you count yourself as one of them?
"I want to make sure that the idiot makes especially sure they talk to Ms. Schneiderhahn because she also knows the dirty, rotton shame given to Lisa by the dirty, rotten scoudrell Greer."
"She is a good person and didn't deserve what she got from the man who would be King, Greer."
Do I sense a bitter person posting here, one that can't spell?
"I will then call them all myself and find out if what you say is true because I know them one on one."
If they feel that strongly about what you say they do, how come they haven't posted on this blog or spoken to the papers? Mr Greer has passed away, he can't harm them, what do they have to lose?
4:47 pm Here comes the attorney again; asking one question after another like in a court room.
They haven't spoken on this blog or in the newspapers because there is life after working for Crestwood and everyone has moved on. Why should they bother themselves. However, they still remember. And they don't need to prove anything; you are the one who needs proof.
Also, for the record, I certainly can spell, especially the word that describes you and who you are.
8:46 Please, spare us the insults, how are you going to vote in August?
Is that simple enough for you?
I have one simple and direct question. Does anyone here really believe that "what we find out" from past employees is going to change one thing today?
Lord, I hope not, because it will not, and we all know it (or should.)
What's done is done! Now we must FOCUS on what we are going to do from here on out!
It's "an old Indian trick" among politicians to get the masses fighting among themselves so they can continue in the fashion they want to. Are we really going to let this happen?
So far the focus is not on the target, rather where the target used to be. I guarantee and insure you that when we do that we set ourselves up for a sure miss, and allow them to frolic and play fast and loose with our money!
If this is what you want, please by all means continue! However if you really want to change ANYTHING at City Hall, FOCUS on the here and now!
JMHO (just my humble opinion!)
Tom Ford
9:16 I do not want a tax increase and I am just guessing but I don't think most people want it either.
When it was first announced I thought it was a good idea, but the more I looked into it, I too see things that should be cut from the budget.
The Kiosk should be eliminated because for years, we did without one; and everyone got their information from the city clerk's office when they walked in the door. I don't know why that position isn't eliminated as well as the Kiosk itself.
I also feel that there are others in the offices that could go part-time or be eliminated.
Why do we need all these computer wizards and employees working as assistants to finance?
Also Mr. Meyers did a lot of hiring of persons that were unnecessary. Are they all still there?
If everyone in the administrative offices were cross-trained, until we get squared away financially, we could have good personnel doing double duty for awhile as well as saving down time when people go on sick leave or vacations. Cross-training to me is just a good idea for efficiency in any office because personnel become that much more knowledgeable with city operations and assists greatly in running a city and it saves money.
The more you learn as an employee the more valuable you become.
10:36 AM, July 20, 2008
Tom; Doggone you. You have said on this blog many times, people who do not learn by their mistakes in the past, tend to repeat them.
Now all of a sudden, you are doing a complete turn around.
What's wrong with you? Yes comments on the tax increase are paramount but when people start stating things about the past that they hear from people who have no clue what they are talking about, it is up to others to tell them so.
You and others may think it is wrong, but I don't. When anyone tells stories on this blog that speak volumes about their ignorance of past transgressions, I feel we need to say so. Otherwise, it just balloons into mayhem and craziness.
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