Mr. Mike Anthony's editorial in this weeks edition of the Sun Crest Call!
Finally, someone in the media has seen through this extremely thin veneer surrounding our City Attorney, and has brought it to light(bless you Mike!) I need not remind anyone who reads this blog that Mr. Anthony and I have had our differences in the past, but this time he is right on target, and I coulden't agree with him more!
For far too long we have witnessed our City Attorney say "I'll have to get back to you on that," or "I will need to talk to__________ (fill in the blank,) and all for a mere $275.00 per hour!
If we were to take a stroll down memory lane we would see some of the decisions made by him allowing what most believe was conflict of interest on certain issues. We would also see him skirt the "sunshine law" thus rendering it impossible for a private citizen to find out what was going on!
We will be entering into some very important negotiations on Crestwood Courts in the very near future, and we will need an attorney who KNOWS MUNICIPAL LAW to guide us through them else we loose our collective shirts!
I agree with the Call completely that we MUST go shopping for a new City attorney, and right now while we still have time! I have asked for permission to link to Mr. Anthony's editorial, and if he grants it, I will!
OK, who will be the first to agree (or disagree,) on this very important thread. If you agree, call you Alderman, the Mayor, and the City Administrator, and let's get this done!
Great news, I have received the OK to link, and I have. Please click on the header for the story from Mike Anthony and the call! And if you will look under "links" you will find the "I Call" listed so you can just click on it anytime for local news and information! I thank the publisher's for their kind permission to do this.
While your reading Call, please note a very good letter from Crestwood's own Dr. David Brophy who is against the tax increase also!
Tom Ford
NO. 526
For far too long we have witnessed our City Attorney say "I'll have to get back to you on that," or "I will need to talk to__________ (fill in the blank,) and all for a mere $275.00 per hour!
If we were to take a stroll down memory lane we would see some of the decisions made by him allowing what most believe was conflict of interest on certain issues. We would also see him skirt the "sunshine law" thus rendering it impossible for a private citizen to find out what was going on!
We will be entering into some very important negotiations on Crestwood Courts in the very near future, and we will need an attorney who KNOWS MUNICIPAL LAW to guide us through them else we loose our collective shirts!
I agree with the Call completely that we MUST go shopping for a new City attorney, and right now while we still have time! I have asked for permission to link to Mr. Anthony's editorial, and if he grants it, I will!
OK, who will be the first to agree (or disagree,) on this very important thread. If you agree, call you Alderman, the Mayor, and the City Administrator, and let's get this done!
Great news, I have received the OK to link, and I have. Please click on the header for the story from Mike Anthony and the call! And if you will look under "links" you will find the "I Call" listed so you can just click on it anytime for local news and information! I thank the publisher's for their kind permission to do this.
While your reading Call, please note a very good letter from Crestwood's own Dr. David Brophy who is against the tax increase also!
Tom Ford
NO. 526
posted by Crestwood Independent at 16:10
111 Comments:
The CALL in it's editorial today asks the Mayor our Board to remove the City Attorney.
I then read the quotes of our Chief of Police who claims his giving pay increases was a "technical foul" because he didn't think to look back to 1965 when the City Code was published.
First of all the law he broke is in the City Charter and secondly the Charter has been in effect for 13 years of the 25 years he has worked here. I thought the Chief of Police was the head of our law enforcement department? Do you feel you could go to traffic court in Crestwood and use as an excuse that the law you broke was an old one and get off scott free?
I think the editorial of the Call didn't go far enough and Paillou should resign as if he is not able to obey our Charter how can he enforce our laws?
4:40 Oh Sure Reward the City Attorney and punish the police chief. Maybe we should take this a step further and see how many pay increases Greer's boys got without the benefit of looking at the code.
The job of the city attorney doesn't enter into your mix, does it? Mike Paillou went in front of the mayor and board with this and nobody said a word about it being illegal. Let's just get rid of all of them OK?
Your one dimensional theory is so biased you make me sick.
The city attorney is suppose to protect the city. He didn't do his job. Maybe because the previous police chief, didn't follow anybody else's rules but his own.
You don't like this police chief period beause you don't like Roy who picks the police chief. That is how you think. How much you wanna bet you thought the previous chief walked on water, never did anything wrong and was just wonderful?
Go back and see how he handled all of the raises he gave all of his buddies. I have already spoken to someone who has attended board meetings for the last 20 years, never missing one. Never saw any resolution passed or ordinances drawn up when Greer was chief.
If you don't like that, let's just do away with the city attorney, since he doesn't do anything anyway. One more big cut for the city budget.
Two weeks in a row!
The Call is on a roll!!
Keep up the good work!!!
Dear Mike Anthony,
Please research and publish the salary and fees paid to our city attorney since his hire in 2000. I bet it's well over $1 million. Has he been worth it?
In return, I'll spend money at the businesses that advertise in The SunCrest Call.
Dear Poster 5:35,
Your lack of understanding of my post only supports my already low view of your IQ.
I never said just blame the Chief alone, his statements and his actions on their own merit are enough to have him removed.
I did not say that because he was an appointee of the Mayor that he should be removed, his actions alone merit that.
I did not claim that or say that Greer did anything different. This Chief is one the who is the Head Law Enforcement officer of Crestwood NOW!
Read the Charter some time while your sitting on the throne cleaning your brains out and see what elected officials and department heads of our City are required to do.
By the way, I agree that Golterman should go, but doubt our current crop of elected officials at City Hall have what it takes to remove him anymore than they do to remove Paillou. But I think they both should be fired and replaced.
Failure to do so by this crop of elected officials cast shadows of corruption across their terms of office for not following the Charter.
Oh, and I didn't say reward anyone in my post, where you got that is beyond my imagination.
Why is it everytime something comes up in Crestwood, Greer is mentioned? The past is the past, and we need to respond to accordingly. Yes, the past is what got us to this point and we need to remember it. But we need to focus our attention on the here and now too.
The reason for the late Don Greer being brought up is simple, it is a deflection to keep any "issues" of the Current group in City Hall from being discussed, thought about or posted.
It's worked so far so why should they stop.
6:03 Don't you start with your comment about my low IQ. You are not as superior as you think and are no better than me or anyone else. Maybe only in your mind!!
Listen up. You never mentioned the City Attorney or anybody else in your 4:40 comment; all you talked about was the police chief, so what are we suppose to think? That the city attorney should be fired too?
You are a real piece of work. You don't have to get so dang smart when answering a comment. What gets me is your superior attitude.
The governing body is the mayor and board of aldermen. A meeting was scheduled to discuss raises in the police department.
At a public meeting the chief of police states what he plans to do with these pay hikes. Why is this governing body along with the City Attorney acting like there is no problem if there is? The police chief shouldn't have to do their job.
You honestly put the responsibility of checking out the code going all the way back to 1965on the police chief when it is the City Attorney's job to be "legal counsel". I guess we don't need a city attorney if all he is going to do is let the mayor and governing body as well as department heads screw up. And if they do, they should be fired?
How in the Sam Hill can you feel that the chief of police should be fired when even the governing body of the city plus the city attorney didn't tell him what the codes were? Does he get paid to do their jobs?
We had no city administrator; so out of all these other people in this mix, you just want to fire the chief?
If he was the only one who controlled the raises, and no one else was involved, and he put this through without anyone else's knowledge, then I could see the justification; but that was not the case.
People keep saying why bring Greer up. Well, because when he gave raises to several in the police department, no resolutions or ordinances were ever done or codes followed. So if the city attorney won't tell you that you are against the code, and the mayor and board don't say so, and there is no city administrator, you are going to put this whole thing on the back of the chief of police because "it was HIS job to go back as far as 1965" to check this out when he just followed what was done by the previous police chief????
And you have a low view of my IQ? What makes you so perfect? Also I don't believe you feel Golterman or anyone else should be fired or else you would have stated it in your original comment.
You can call me any name you like, but you better look at yourself before you call people names. Also, I have a hot news flash for you. You may think you are oh so superior and you think you are something special, but you are just another person like me. No worse and no better. Get it, no better. You just think you are smarter, and better than everybody else.
And as for that smart remark about "sitting on the throne", better make sure you didn't flush your brains down the throne, along with the rest of your manure. You are a real sicko.
6:30 The reason Greer was brought up in this issue was that he never followed the codes and gave raises and promotions all the time. There were never any ordinances done and no codes were followed and nothing was ever done about it. Now all of a sudden, it's a big deal. Pure and simple.
Greer presented his restructuring plan to the public in 2005. Why didn't Paillou?
Well it was a big deal cause you guys keep bring it up, so what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
10:31 read my post, again.
I said Anthony didnt go far enough. I said the Chief has been here for all 13 years of the Charter not since the Code was put into place. Oh by the way, since your so "sharp" how is a conflict between the code and the charter resolved?
Both Golterman and Paillou should be let go over this violation of the CHARTER.
We all know what happened when Greer was here. Talking about him will get us nowhere.
Why is City Attorney Rob Golterman still here? I'm sure he has a "great legal mind" but his legal expertise seems to be a bit selective. If he can ignore the city's laws just to make governing the city easier for the mayor and the board, he needs to go. Rob Golterman has brought nothing but insincerity, secrecy, confusion, disrespect, and smugness to Crestwood citizens since he's been here. I think the only reason the city keeps him is BECAUSE he's such a snake. The board knows that every single time it appears they might be in trouble or they might have screwed up, Golterman will cover for them. The man will overlook any rule or law just to "fix" whatever mistake they might have got themselves into. Golterman doesn't want to stand in the way of government, even if they are doing something that isn't up to snuff with the city code. With a guy like that, it's no wonder the board hasn't fired him. He makes them look good and keeps them out of the trouble they deserve to be in.
Well, I for one am not going to put up with this "flexible" city attorney anymore. It's our tax dollars that pay for him, so WE have the right to demand he be removed. Rob Golterman isn't doing what's best for Crestwood. He's doing what's best for government by ignoring and bending the law. If you agree that he is hurting the city and keeping the people in the dark, I urgr you to call your aldermen and go to meetings and demand that City Attorney Rob Golterman be fired! I agree with Mike Anthony and Tom Ford. Restore transparency in our government!
Well isn't this a fine rock throwing crowd. I would suggest you all buckle up and start thinking about the tough decisions we are going to ask our elected officials to make when Prop 1 goes down in flames. You are like a bunch of island citizens standing around discussing penny annie things while a Sunami is getting ready to devastate your island. Gather your wits and start talking about the things we can do without in this city. Start talking about alternate revenue sources. Things other than sales tax, property tax, utility taxes and all the current things that generate revenue for this city.
As for the Mall, what makes it any different than any other development sitting idol because of the economy? If I were a betting person, my money would be on the developer sitting on what he has and taking a wait and see approach. Don't look for anything to happen there soon.
In the meantime how are we going to pay for any form of services a city of 12,000 people require?
You need to start thinking about these things because afterall, this is our city and we should be dictating what we expect from our elected officials.
8:04 Don't care. He still did not follow code and pass pay hikes by ordinance or resolution.
Also, the pay hikes were in the budget and was a budgeted item. So the budget was passed and so were the pay hikes.
8:14 Found out today that these pay hikes were budgeted items and as such were OK'd by the board of aldermen. Never even when Mel Loyd was police chief has there been an ordinance passed for pay hikes. I spoke with a city hall representative today and when the department heads do their budgets, that is where they include pay raises. Now everyone wants to make a big deal about it because of the tax increase but department heads have been included them as budgeted items for years.
9:50 prove that the rules at the time raises were given were in effect and if so were not done according to the rules in effect at that time.
I for one, am past sick and tired of every issue that comes up within our city having to be viewed through the lens of Don Greer's actions or lack of same.
I for one will vote against PROP 1 due in part to the recent illegal police pay raises and the employment of Golterman as our City Attorney and the lack of proof that the City needs an increase.
9:55 if what you said is correct, then Greer never violated the code/charter when he gave increases. But are you telling me at budget time in the 4th quarter of 2007, Paillou knew he was going to have openings that allowed him to give raises?
The defense of Golterman and Paillou are indications to me that the supporters of Prop 1 really do not want better government but only want more money.
Vote NO on PROP 1!
We had no city administrator....
Perhaps it's time for our newly minted CA to way in on this issue? Perhaps he should review the actions taken and report back to the Board? The Police Chief works for the CA who works for the Board................
9:55,
NO! NO! NO! These pay hikes were NOT budgeted. The police budget IS under budget despite these raises. But that's only because we've had one officer retire and two others quit. The city spent a lot of those new savings this year on those raises. We would have had even more savings were it not for these raises.
I'm not saying these raises are not deserved because I honestly don't know. If they are deserved, that's great and I'm happy for them.
But the secret, closed-door way in which these raises were done disturbs me. The board finally voted on them in closed session in JULY. The raises were given in MAY and JUNE. Who's REALLY running the city here? And the law states that these raises must be done by ordinance or resolution, which can only be done in PUBLIC. Just because past administrations haven't always done it right DOES NOT EXCUSE this one. The law is the law is the law.
With bungles like these, it's just hard to trust this government. They spend our money without even telling us until two months later. This is exactly why I'm voting NO on Prop 1. If these guys are going to spend our money in a sneaky way, I'm sure as hell not going to pay them more.
10:27 OK then, Mr. or Mrs. no, no, no; maybe the only way to get it a correct answer is to talk to the police chief himself and talk to the board members and leave the mayor out of this since you don't trust him anyway.
I too am tired of hearing 15 thousand different scenarios. Maybe someone close to this issue can tell us the story behind all of these blog comments.
What a mess. At this point in time, you have several different people saying several different things and I for one don't want to hear anything else unless it is from somebody who was at the starting gate.
Our conversations are going nowhere. Only by asking your questions and making your comments to the chief or the board of aldermen regarding closed door sessions and/or budgetary items and/or anything else can we get the truth. Wouldn't that be great if we could somehow get the truth for a change?
The next time someone commits ANY code violation in this city, from traffic on down, we need to show up at the courts and quote the Police Chief, say it's a "technical foul" and that we can't be expected to know 40 years of city code.
Why did this man step into this position if he didn't have a thorough knowledge of the job? Perhaps we can promote another officer who has better knowledge of our laws and procedures, and let this man go back to learning the job.
11:54,
10:27 here. I never mentioned the mayor. Why did you? I think Roy is doing a decent job. I'm just worried that our government is not doing everything above board. And I got my information from the police chief's quotes in this week's Call, so I think that's pretty close to the source.
12:03 Well then bird brain find someone who can quote 40 years of the laws in Crestwood to do the job. NOT! Get off your high horse and think logically with your head instead of your behind!
If you know that knowledgeable person, let him be police chief. Find him for the sake of Crestwood or go live on another planet.
You can go back in time to when Koenig was mayor and you ain't gonna find anyone who can site you all the laws; that's why we have a city attorney, you idiot!
Which is why the city attorney should be fired.
12:13 Good I am glad that you read the Call and read the chief's remarks.
But as far accountability goes, I have only one thing to say. Let me be the city attorney and pay me what he is being paid to keep city officials legal, regarding code and charter violations. I don't have a law degree, but I could do a better job than he does.
If I were the police chief and in a position where those previous to me were doing the exact same procedure with pay raises and promotions, and nothing was ever done in the past to show me any different, and nothing ever crossed their desk telling them differently, I am not so sure that I would feel the urgency to check it out on my own. After all, there are people, like a city attorney, that are suppose to protect city officials against careless or inappropriate procedures and it was never mentioned prior to this! So why should this chief be blasted for it except for the fact that it is just another way to pass judgement on this chief and his department.
It is, what it is.
12:03 It was the Charter that was broken, and it will 13 yrs old this Nov, Chief has been here for 25 yrs.
It was not a 40 yr old law!
NO excuse in any case because the Head Law Enforcement officer of the City, he if any Dept head should know the rules.
Maybe even better than Golterman.
Both ned to go, get your Alderman to remove them both now before they ruin our city.
Let's not forget how the City removed the last Attorney. It just took one Alderman (Jim Robertson) to announce in public at a BOA meeting that he was calling for MS. Shu Simon's resignation. Reason, she had given the BOA advise in the Ruchie question n Ward 3.
If it had gone to a vote he may not have had the votes to fire her, but she quit when she realized she had lost the confidence the BOA. It would be worth someone on the Current BOA to at least try the same thing.
I remember that too. She did quit when she realized the boa or maybe the public had no confidence in her. Will this be the same scenario? Will Golterman do the same? I don't know.
Just takes one Alderman to have what it takes to stand up and take a shot at it...What does the person have to lose?
6:14 PM blogger: I know that the City Administrator, and the mayor are firmly behind Mr. Golterman, and will attempt to shield him to the end. That said, if he (Mr. Golterman) is a smart as I think he is, he will see the writing on the wall and bail out.
He knows that his position is unattainable, so to save face he will ( I hope,) resign to pursue other work, and spend more time with the family.
We will have the compulsory "going away party," wish him well, and start the search for a new attorney.
Let's see how this plays out.
Tom Ford
Tom, Golterman isn't going anywhere. Do you think Golterman really cares what anybody thinks when he has the mayor and City Administrator on his side?
He is making lots of money here and in other municipalities so why would he quit? You think anybody on that board of aldermen is going to recommend it?
Maybe at the next election for mayor, a new city attorney will be chosen by a new mayor, but then again, at the next election we too may have a new police chief. It depends entirely on who runs and who wins.
Things like this distain for the police chief have happened many times in the past. I am not talking about one man who was chief and city administrator like before. I am speaking about many years ago. It happened all the time, in the 1970's.
When Bill Bequette was made police chief, all of Chief Loyd's boys hated him and when Chief Loyd was made police chief, Bequette's boys hated Chief Loyd. So they use to call them Bill's boys and Mel's boys. These two chiefs were placed under a microscope and ambushed at every turn. Seems that there is still that hatred going on today. The same thing happened in the Fire Department.
Sometimes the more things change, the more they stay the same. Therefore, I do not and will not put Chief Paillou down, because nobody knows where these comments on this blog are coming from or what is correct and what isn't. If you come to conclusions by leading with your animosity for this chief, you are really not being rational in your judgements. And it seems to run rappant on this blog when it comes to this issue. So, until I hear the truth from those in charge, everything about this issue is mere speculation. I don't care what was said in the Call. I am waiting for the final answers from the experts and those in charge. Until then, I refuse to do that to Chief Paillou.
How many lawsuits has Attorney Golterman cost the City of Crestwood?
Is it true that he makes around $150,000 for a part-time job at Crestwood? How much does he really make per year?
Who trains the Police Chief, Fire Chief, and City Administrator on the City of Crestwood codes and ordinances?
Attorney Golterman?
City Clerk?
Mayor?
Who signs off on their training to hold their position?
Is this what happens when you skip a few positions to become the Chief of Police?
Predictions:
Police Chief resigning for a job in Glendale with Frank Myers?
Fire Chief takes early retirement before the fire hose starts leaking?
Mayor resigning because he bought a new farm tractor for his farm?
City Administrator sending out resumes for a job in St. Ann with Matt Conley?
Attorney Golterman taking early retirement since he made his millions in lawyer fees?
Is it true that Attorney Golterman advised the current Chief of Police?
What is his track record?
How many city officials have left office due to his advise?
Who is he working for? himself? Lewis and Rice Law Firm?
7:14 PM blogger: I agree on the Police Chief, none of this is on him, period.
If he asked Mr. Golterman (and I am sure he did,) the total responsibility is on the City Attorney, Mike was doing what he was told was OK!
Please do not take your eye off the "lead duck!" If your going to take shots, please find out who said what to whom, and when!
Tom Ford
Will any of you accept what the Police Chief him self says as evidence that he screwed up?
To writer of both 5:35 pm and 10:31pm regarding the 4:40 entry. I read these and it seems clear that the writer of the two rebuffs is one and the same person because: she (and I'm sure it's a female) did not understand what the 4:40 entry said at all. And besides this she went on and on and on and on. This writer needs to get out of the house more and take a tranquilizer. Geez!
Mr. Golterman has never impressed me as a good lawyer, he's vague and never willing to step up to the plate with anything definitive. It's always "I'll have to sleep on it" I believe his loyalties lie elsewhere and he couldn't care one bit about anything Crestwood. It's all about the money and poor Roy gave him a raise and another term. How sad. I wonder if our Mayor just doesn't see what we see? How he wakes up soon.
Has the 2008 Budget been published yet? I can't be an informed voter without it. Please post a link if you have it.
Here you go. Just copy and paste this URL link in your browser. This is the 2008 budget.
http://www.ci.crestwood.mo.us/docs/agendas_minutes/boa/2007_12_11/fy%202008%20master.pdf
Sorry that won't work because the link is too long.
Just go to the city's Web page and click on meetings/agendas. Go to December 2007 and click on the Dec. 11 board meeting. In the agenda, you'll see a link to the 2008 budget.
Click on it and you will see that there was a TON of information left out by the Citizens for Prop 1. I find it very interesting that they can present a financial picture of the city without mentioning that the city's cash position grew from a little over $6 million to a little over $7 million from the end of 2006 to the end of 2007. And apparently, according to the CItizens for Prop 1, the city only has a general fund. They didn't say anything or give any reports on the capital improvement fund or the park & stormwater fund. Jim Eckrich and Jerome Friedeck would NOT be happy if they had been there and seen those two funds "left out" if their "presentation".
I have read the comments of the person at 6:03 PM 7/23 and 8:28 PM 7/24 and I am pretty sure they came from the same person and I am pretty sure it's a male. I think he should get out of the house more often and take a tranquilizer. Geez!
Well we have all made some very interesting remarks on the blog, but have any of you contacted your Alderman to register your feeling's on the City Attorney?
I have spoken to two so far to give them my views, and I suggest you do the same, else nothing changes!
Never forget we are paying the salary, so in my mind we get to call the shot's!
Pick up the phone, E-mail them, call the Mayor, but please do something besides writing here!
Tom Ford
How about cuts in wages instead of services? All we need from each employee is $11 a month less and we can go into the future without sales tax rev.
It's only $11 a mth, surely every employee of Crestwood can afford that?
If not why do they think I can afford that amount being taken from me with increased taxes?
You have to have an alderman you can respect before you would call him about anything. One of our alderman became our alderman by lying about his opponent. So call him about anything concerning the city. I don't think so!
Well, come to the next board meeting and let your opinion be heard about the city attorney.
2:02 What a concept. Many employees don't even live in Crestwood so why should they pay out of their pockets.
If you don't want a tax increase, just say so because frankly if you were employed at, for instance, the City of Webster Groves and didn't live there, I can tell you right now, there would be no way you would take money out of your pocket to save those people from a tax increase. That has got to be the most idiotic thing I ever heard. You can't be serious.
Once again, you have had a free ride with low tax for years while sales tax paid for everything in this city and is the reason why your taxes are low; and now after all these years, you can't get used to the idea of paying more to keep what we have. You are, indeed, a taker and want others to pay your way. Talk about integrity!
But it's only $11 dollars a month, surely they can afford that if I supposed to be able to?
If they dont live in Crestwood, then they should take a $50 a mth cut in pay to begin with.
Again we see that it is idiotic for government to take less pay, but for the citizens it's expected.
I am against the tax increase.
Know what ... The city administrator best stay out of the Golterman item. He is brand new and should keep his nose clean. It would be a real shame if he thinks he is in a position at this time to advise the board what to do as regards Golterman. He is far too new and inexperienced in this capacity. If he involves his opinions it would be strictly out of friendship or politics and this would be a major disservice to our city and to himself. This is not his role at this time. Best he keep this in mind, and stay completely out of it.Bad way to start his job if he weighs in on this. His job is not to fraternize to the point of showing any form of favoritism. This is exactly what happened with Greer. Let us be done with this sort of governance. He is a city employee.
"Once again, you have had a free ride with low tax for years while sales tax paid for everything in this city and is the reason why your taxes are low; and now after all these years, you can't get used to the idea of paying more to keep what we have. You are, indeed, a taker and want others to pay your way. Talk about integrity!"
You have conveniently forgot about the increase in utility taxes and property taxes. This notion that residents are takers is pure nonsense and those that spin that should be ashamed.
OK let the tax increase fail, which it probably will do. Then when all our streets and sidewalks and property values go in the toilet in Crestwood and our housing stock decays because nobody wants to live here, you, my friend, will be the first one to blame it on whoever is mayor at that time or blame anybody else but yourself. Cause that's what people like you do.
No. You never would blame yourself for being stupid and ignorant but that is what you are. In Crestwood, you have received everything in this city for years for way less than everybody else in other cities have paid; but did you think that was going to last forever? Did you even care?
Residents in this city have been living off of sales tax from residents and non-residents alike who shop at the plaza for a good long time.
If you can tell me that what you pay for a gallon of milk today is less than what you paid 20 years ago, you would have a case. Since you can't, what makes you think that we can in this 21st century live in a city that we can't afford to keep up. Materials to rebuild our streets are more expensive, gasoline for snow plowing, police cars and fire pumpers is more, and everything is much more expensive than years ago. Don't even start with Proposition this, proposition that; I really don't care. Our sales tax is pitifully low.
Let's face a real fact; it would not matter to many of you if this tax issue was put on the ballot for the most seriously needed reasons or not; it wouldn't matter what the crisis was and who was mayor and why the city wanted it; when you say tax increase to lots of residents - it is an automatic NO and it just doesn't matter if there will or will not be consequences to pay. It is a negative issue and that's exactly what you are all about. Be honest and tell the truth. Isn't it?
6:31 PM blogger: Your right it will fail, but not for the reasons you state. I will fail because of the lack on "controls" in place on spending!
I know you must assuage your guilt by wanting to pay more, and more, but most of us want the brakes put on spending before we grant another farthing!
To you, we are all greedy wretches who want to live off the backs of others, to us, we want "fiscal responsibility" in place, in writing, and carved in stone before we grant their wishes!
The other night at the Ward Two meeting I asked the moderator if a signed and notarized pledge to "sunset the tax" by the mayor and Alderman could be done. He said he didn't know why why not, but nothing like that has been done so far.
My point? Well there is more than one side to this, and I really doubt that name calling is going to solve anything!
So state your remarks, and leave the petty, ridiculuos remarks out of it!
Tom Ford
It is interesting that someone is advising Mr. Eckridge as to his Keeping his nose clean. Hasn't he been at boa meeting for the past several years. I see him as a very bright young man with his head on straight. I'm sure he has seen more of how decisions have been made than any of us, that is unless we have attended each and every meeting. Let's keep in mind that for the time at least we still have freedom of speech. Jim is like a breath of fresh air and I don't look for him to become a 'yes' man.
Jim is like a breath of fresh air and I don't look for him to become a 'yes' man.
Please... Jim is an Engineer. He does what he is told. He has got no exeperience in the big leagues. As a Department Head he was insulated from the politics... not anymore!
6:31 PM, July 25, 2008
Like I said, after reading your post and listening to what others have said, it is a sad day for Crestwood. We residents are made to feel guilty cause we have a low property tax. And then you name call and state you know how I and others think.
You are also factually incorrect with the statement "Our sales tax is pitifully low." Wrong. Our sales tax is one of the highest in St. Louis County. If you are interested in something called facts, you might want to check St. Louis County's website and check our sales tax rate and compare it to other municipalities. It is our real estate tax that is low - for the moment.
And as for the gallon of milk argument, what a joke. Assessments, you know property assessments, are a lot higher than they were twenty years ago - therefore, Crestwood's share of revenue is higher too. But that's not important to you. Just name calling and being judgemental.
And by the way, if your so wise about city finances, go up to city hall and write them a check. Do something useful with your time besides attacking others.
Thanks for your comments. Now that you have stated them, I am sure you would allow me the same courtesy. If I sounded too harsh, talk to Steve Knarr who wrote an article saying almost the same thing in The Times Newspaper yesterday.
I don't think I need to apologize for my feelings, but I am sorry that you disagree with me.
A letter to the editor from last November in the St. Louis Post Dispatch regarding property tax reassessments:
This STLtoday.com article -- "Tears and pain show real suffering because of property assessment increases (and higher taxes)"
Below is the link to the story.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/news-letters-to-the-editor/2007/11/tears-and-pain-show-real-suffering-because-of-property-assessment-increases-and-higher-taxes/
Here is the story.
On November 14th I attended the Property Tax Blue Ribbon Task Force meeting that was held at the Mid-country library branch. It was a five hour meeting that consisted of citizens of St. Louis County meeting in front of fellow citizens and the task force to tell their stories on how the regular and constant increases of property taxes has hurt them or their businesses. Charles Dooley just announced last week that he plans to raise property taxes again in 2008.
One gentleman came in distraught and confused about how to protest his tax increase. One of the members on the panel, Mr. Louis Rubin, went on to tell this man how hassle-free and painless the process was for him. He told this man and the audience that his property tax assessment came in considerably over what he thought his property was worth. He hired a commercial appraiser for $350.00 and brought this appraisal to his meeting with the assessor. The assessor, after reviewing his appraisal, knocked off the increase and thus Mr. Rubin didn't have to go through all of the hurdles and the obstacle course that the rest of us who protested our taxes are going through.
First of all, I think $350.00 for most people is about what their tax increase might have escalated to depending on the value of their home. Appraising can be subjective and it is risky and costly for the majority of citizens to take the time off work to meet the appraiser and to spend hundreds of dollars that might leave them even deeper in the hole then they already are.
My issue is that my case has been appealed all the way to the state level in Jefferson City. I have been told that my property tax has to be paid under protest that the state gives strict instructions on how you have to pay under such circumstances. My taxes have gone up 35% with this most recent increase. Well as you can quite imagine I wasn't able to speak to an accountable or sympathetic person at my mortgage company. I told them how I needed the tax to be paid (with the strict instructions given by the state tax commission), but I am quite certain that the mortgage company will not follow these instructions. As I am one small potato as far as the mortgage company is concerned and they are saddled with bigger issues with the current foreclosure problem.
Another lady mentioned that she has several neighbors with one of them working for the assessors office. That neighbor has a lower valuation and tax bill then the neighbors surrounding even though the government assessor has a more updated and valuable property.
I thought my 35% increase was outrageous but another gentleman had his tax bill go up 90% and he pays 10% of his net income for property taxes.
There was a lot of pain in that room. Tears were shed and many people are really suffering pain from these indiscriminate property tax increases. I believe that if the property assessor has to go to the people for a vote to increase property taxes and justify the increase, this would be a huge improvement. As of now the property assessor is appointed and does not need to go to the people for a vote.
I truly hope that the task force is successful in coming up with solutions to present to the legislators in December and real reform will be forthcoming.
Susan McPhail
St. Louis County
Cost aside, the city attorney is either not well versed or just plain lazy. It would be good if the CALL could advise us just how much he is costing us. We already know he is lacking in municipal law skills. That for me is enough to say goodbye. We need a fresh start with a dependable legal eagle. We have had way too many lawsuits which have contributed to some of our financial woes. (check this out, you will be amazed). Aldermen need to address this as they repreresent the residents not the people who are getting paid fees for legal counsel. As soon as the BOA realizes to whom they owe their allegiance, we can obtain the talent we need to move forward with a more secure sense of legal expertise. This attorney has sat idly by while 2 city administrators and a financial person were able to blindshight a BOA into giving away part of a store with empty shelves. What did he do to lessen this assault on our city?????? It appears he is not much m ore than an expensive lump on a log. Time to say goodbye.
Well let's see just how much gumption this city board of aldermen has. How much egg on face they plan to endure. How well they adapt the Charter and what kind of expectations they have considering our current distress. The BOA and our new City Administrator need no more handicaps. They
and we need our money's worth and the necessary skills a municipal gov't should have delivered by its legal advisor.
Interesting time in Crestwood, that's for sure!
5:18 PM blogger: Indeed it is! I worry about the old Chinese Saying, "May you live in interesting times!"
That is actually a very thinly veiled curse in China, and here we are!
Marvelous!!
Tom Ford
While I cannot be sure just yet, I believe the City Attorney may have been paid well over $500,000.00 since 2002.
I will find out for sure, but I am confident that it's not going to be too much less than that.
Off we go to City Hall with another "Freedom of information act form, (or F.O.I.A.) If this proves to be true, I am not only shocked, but I KNOW I am in the wrong business!
Where else but weather forecasting can you hedge your remarks (or be wrong) and still get paid? It sure doesnt work in design / build construction when it comes to the HVAC field.
Tom Ford
Thinking back on blogs of the past, I recall seeing quite a few comments regarding the City Attorney and his demerits. Lots of comments that he should step down. Now the time has come. Best we include among our expectations the fact that our elected officials had best be behooved by the fact that the time has come. NOW. Time to say goodbye to Mr. G. He is too expensive and too illusive and not near talented enough. If the Aldermen and Mayor do not see this, perhaps they can step down. The city belongs to those of us who know the facts and expect results. I am very anxious for the CALL or someone to get us the cost figures for this attorney going way back.
If the officials think we do not know that they are thinking he holds secrets under his cuff, well too bad. Many will be watching how this unfolds and have expectations. At any rate, this will not fold. Persistence is Omnipotent.
How much can we say by getting a real government lawyer that save us on lawsuits?
When is Attorney Golterman retiring? Today? Let's celebrate.
How long has Attorney Golterman been in politics in City of Crestwood?
Did he advise everyone that ended up in the newspaper and took early retirement?
City attorney Rob Golterman must go. His complete and utter disregard for the city's charter and the Sunshine Law has WORN TOO THIN. No longer can our elected leadership count on him for the right advice. The CALL caught Golterman in the act of skirting the law and we are a better city for it. But only until the day that Rob Golterman is gone will we have truly made progress. I get that raises and closed meetings are sometimes necessary. But for goodness sake, make sure you do it right and FOLLOW THE LAW so you avoid the embarrassment that Golterman deserves to be in and keep the city in the clear. Rob Golterman isn't a friend of the law. He's an enabler to Crestwood. Whatever needs to be done, he's there to "make it legal." Well enough is enough. The CALL caught Rob Golterman with his pants down. Now it's time to axe him. If our aldermen don't see this, then they are TRULY part of the system rather than part of the city.
"We have had way too many lawsuits which have contributed to some of our financial woes."
"While I cannot be sure just yet, I believe the City Attorney may have been paid well over $500,000.00 since 2002."
That was ANOTHER attorney... Chris Hesse... buddy of Don Greer, Jimbo Robertson and Timmy Trueblood. Golterman was kept out of the loop on during this time.. not defending him, just stating facts.
As for the Call publishing what our legal bills are... they should... but they should also include what was paid to Bobroff, Hesse, Lindmark & Martone PC, who authorized the expenditure and what time it was paid. ($100,000's of $ were being paid to this crew during a time when the City was "broke".)
What we've paid Golterman is peanuts compared to how much $$ Don and Jimbo sent to Mr. Hesse. I'm sure the Call will give equal treatment to all.... Right!
Man, have you got it right on the button about Timmy being big time buddies with Chris Hesse. I used to see them together at the bar in the bowling ally, laughing their behinds off about some private joke. I'm sure it was about how much money Chris was making off the City.
Then I understand that Timmy had Chris over for dinner several times and after wards they would drive around Crestwood, looking at all of us poor folks who couldn't stop them.
I am told there are even photos taken by "you know who" of Chris and Timmy going to Greer's home one evening. Probably to plan their next rip off.
Yup, I'm sure glad you brought that up, I'd almost forgot what close pals the two of them were. I'm sure you can add even more examples of their friendship. So please do fill us in on the missing Chris and Timmy events.
11:43 Thanks for the info. That is just another piece to the puzzle that I didn't know. Now things are really coming clear. I am surprised that Jimbo didn't join them at the bowling alley and at dinners. I knew that Greer and Hesse were joined at the hip, but now things are adding up.
Your information makes things much clearer regarding comments and remarks put on this blog.
Now I can almost name Trueblood and his wife when it comes to the explitives made on this blog to those who have tried to say things regarding Greer and Jimbo. Mr. Trueblood really does get his Indian blood up when it comes to defending Greer and Jimbo. I wasn't sure about that until now.
If you have any other information please comment because for the first time, I see that many have been on the right track regarding that group. It tells me a lot about who was in the posse that I wasn't aware of.
Greer is no longer with us, "Jimbo" resigned, and Mr. Trueblood asked some good questions at the Mayor's town hall meeting.
Remember the past but focus on the now.
I agree but it is still interesting.
1:38 PM, July 28, 2008
You must be a lonely housewife.... go watch the soaps and leave the serious business to others.
Oh here is some more "stuff" about Chrisy and Timmy, they went to different schools together.
Which explains so much of how thick they were/are. Think of it for a second now, while all of you are worried about Prop 1, there is really cool "stuff" from over three years ago we could post here that would make us feel so much better if we believed it instead of what we are facing now with most of our elected officers!
Yes Chrisy and Timmy were the best of pals, they helped plot the down fall of Kent the Larger the C/A so he could be replaced by Greer, they got Lisa B fired, they are the ones behind the Twin Towers bombing and helped start the Iraq war for their own advancement.
They are the ones who you see in those black helicopters flying over you house at 2 in the morning.
Ha, and you thought they were out of your lives? They are right now reading your email, going through your trash and taking photos of the people coming and going from each of your homes like was done to Greer.
Yes sir, they are behind the high cost of gas, lays offs at Chrysler and I overheard them years ago at Red Lobster talking about how much misery they could cause every resident of Crestwood by starting Global Warming.
I am really surprised it has taken you so long to finally get a glimmer of what they have done to us.
And the real scary thing about it is they are the ones who delayed StarBucks from coming to town!
Mr. Trueblood asked some very good questions at the "Town Hall Meeting" (aka Pro Prop 1 rally) for Ward Two last week.
5:26 PM Trueblood may have asked some interesting questions at the town hall meeting, but as you can read in the comment at 5:04 PM he and his accomplishes showed their true colors.
5:47,
I guess you can't see irony when it's right in front of your face in the 5:04 post.
I have a thought on former city officials.
Remember them.
But focus on the now.
As for waxing hate about what used to be, WHO CARES? We've got much bigger fish to fry to now, including a whale by the name of Rob Golterman.
As for waxing hate about what used to be, WHO CARES?
I do. The Call was AWOL when another Attorney and his buds were picking our pocket to the tune of nearly $500,0000!
Maybe it's time for Rob to move on, but I wonder why the Call is all of sudden concerned about the quality of our legal advice? We got horrible legal advicece from Mr. Hesse and it didn't get so much as a mention in the Bird Cage paper. Why?
5:54 PM You call that irony? OK if you say so.
5:04 I thought you made sense until you got to the twin towers then I lost your irony.
I am sorry but the world is still reeling over the catasrophe of the twin towers and since it caused the death and destruction that it did, if you want to be cute or silly, you should have stopped your comment before you started running off your mouth about the twin towers.
Just goes to show the caliber of person that you are. You went too far like you always do.
Well, if no one else will call for it, I will!
Mr. Rob Golterman, resign, take a 50 year leave of absence, whatever you wish, but just GO!
In case you haven't figured it out yet, we citizens have no confidence IN YOU WHAT SO EVER!
I find it hard to believe anyone would stay where they're not wanted, so why not resign and save face while you can?
I am reminded of the old quote from Groucho Marx, "I would never be a member of a club that would have me as a member!" (Get it?)
I hope to see you make the right decision by the next BOA meeting!
Tom Ford
Mr. Golterman apparently is still wanted. Just because we say he is not wanted, we don't count.
A blog is just a blog. You cannot change things just because you see something that city officials don't see.
You are only taking about a handful of people on this blog who feel the city attorney should go.
It doesn't happen that way, Tom. You know that.
I agree. If you truly want Mr. Rob Golterman to be fired, say so at a board meeting. Only there will you count. It looks like there's a lot of you here that want him gone. But does anyone feel so strongly about it that they'll get up and say it to his face at a board meeting? I wonder.
I also doubt if anyone would say it at a board meeting because they don't sign their names on the blog which means they are only giving their opinion.
I am not happy with the fact that he just doesn't seem to do his job as far as being knowledgeable enough to know the codes and say when we are in violation but I think we should not have to be the ones that pull the plug; the mayor and board need to do that. If we are unhappy, we can call them and tell them about it. You see, nobody wants to be the bad guy.
I can't wait to see what his latest excuse is for this one. Remember when Bill Clinton twisted the definition of the word "the"? Something tells me the illustrious Mr. Golterman will do the same thing. With him, it's not about following the law. It's about bending it to "make it legal" for the government.
I sense a double standard is being set up. While in no way do I condone Goltermans behavior and do in fact think we would better off with his replacement, I can not give our elected officials and department heads a pass by blaming everything on the City Attorney.
Did we not hold accountable the Mayor and Aldermen for their actions during Greer's time as C/A? Did we give them any excuses and blame it all on Greer? No we didn't and why is that?
Because we all know that everyone makes up their own mind, that none of these people are so stupid to not know the difference between what is right and wrong, and that all of them have taken a oath to obey our Charter, which assumes they have at least read it.
Golterman must go, but the elected officers of Crestwood need to take a long look at their own actions and those of their Dept Heads.
I agree. We need to look at department heads and we need to look at procedure. If procedures are lacking, we need to re-evaluate and enforce.
Well from what I have read on the blog many of you have specific ideas about what constitutes being a mayor, an alderman and a city attorney. On paper, and in writing, this sounds perfect; however, nothing is perfect at least not in Crestwood.
It would be great if each one of you had the capacity to go up to city hall and demand that your ideas be fulfilled. However, we don't have any clout. But if some of you would run for office down the road sooner rather than later, maybe some of your ideas could be forthcoming. Until then, I am afraid all we have are words on a computer.
"It would be great if each one of you had the capacity to go up to city hall and demand that your ideas be fulfilled."
After the election, some things will be requested. Whether the board acts on them is another question.
Stay tuned.
Has anyone told our city officials that everything they use at the city hall was paid for by taxes?
Check your phone bill on the 911 tax.
Nothing is free at city hall.
We pay their bills by our Utility taxes, real estate taxes, and sales taxes.
They are using reverse 911 by our tax dollars that was created for emergencies.
Hope we never have an emergency!
We can't park on the city hall parking due to swim meets and parties organized by the Crestwood Swim Club.
We are notified on every event with the reverse 911. So, when will I ever know it is truly an emergency?
How about using the reverse 911 when the Mayor goes to the country?
How about using the reverse 911 when we can ask questions to our Alderman?
How about using 911 when the mayor goes to the bathroom???? You are so ridiculously insane. Did you graduate from Kindergarten?
It's OK to be angry about things at city hall and if you don't want to raise taxes don't vote for them; but you and others like you are so mad at the world, you can only express your negativism by your over the top and insane remarks.
Get a life; if you are unhappy here in Crestwood, go somewhere else to live.
we who don't like the corruption at city hall, will not move. We will fix the corruption and return this city to its owners, we the citizens.
we will not move no matter how much you make fun of us or threaten us. we are here to stay until this job is done.
get used to it.
6:31 july 25th
I agree with you but you are wasting your breath on this group. You talk about general property taxes and they talk about sales taxes. that is a clear sign that they have no idea what they are talking about. Since when is anyone on this blog forced to shop in Crestwood. And yes, .205 cents is one of the lowest PROPERTY TAX rates in the county. The biggest mistake this city ever made was to lower their PROPERTY TAX rate from 55 cents to what it is now. we wouldn't be in the position we are in now. We would have had the potential bank balance that could have carried us through slow economic times. And don't tell me about the Prop S 20 cent b/c that can only be used to pay down the debt that all of us let previous administrations get away with. So if you want to blame anyone for where we are now blame us all. This blog either gets postings from the 15 people who attend meetings regularly or it gets postings from people who only think they know what they are talking about. but either way, most of the jibberish being spouted here is just that. Not once on this blog have I heard one person from the annexed area say they are happy to have all of us pay their Affton fire tax. ($300 + thousand a year) If you want to cry about your current taxes that is your perogative but get your facts straight and speak truths not jibberish.
As for Mr. Anthonys editorial, it is nothing more than stirring the anger and discontent among Crestwood citizens. That is all it is intended to do. In my day we called guys like him manure disturbers.( Trying to keep it clean for Tom's sake)
When those discussing property tax also refer to sales tax, we are looking at the entire tax burden on Crestwood residents.
Like it or not, we have one of the lowest property tax rates (at the moment) and one of the highest sales tax rates. We also have moderately high utility taxes.
The reason these other taxes are brought into discussion is that proponents of the tax hike say how Crestwood residents have it so easy and wonderful. They conveniently forget to mention the other taxes.
So forgive those of us looking at the big picture.
4:20 I am so glad someone agrees with me 6:31 July 25th here.
People in this town want something for nothing because that is what we really pay as low as our tax goes. It's miniscual.
But like I have stated before, the other taxes that are imposed on us all go up so because we have to pay for these other taxing entities, and I don't mean Proposition this or that, what do crestwood residents want to do to this tax to assist their own city? They are going to bite the hand that feeds them in their own domicile. The streets they drive on and their own sidewalks and when the whole city is stripped to its bare bones, and we have no more money to keep up our city, they won't blame themselves for it, they will blame whoever is in office at that time.
I will be long gone before that happens because my property value is probably the most important resource in my book. Once that goes down, I will have very little left to live on. And that day will come it is just a matter of time.
I think that is a great idea to track the Mayor with reverse 911.
Then we can post how many hours he spends at City Hall.
Is he making popcorn?
Mike Anthony predictions are coming true.
He saw the real Mayor Roy Robinson!
How did he fool all of us?
What really happens in these close sessions?
7:04 "People in this town want something for nothing"
Nonsense. If you have the gall to go up to the 'people in this town' and tell them that, be my guest.
Tom,
I just read your letter to the editor in the Times. You stated that you don't think we need a tax increase at this time. Does that mean you do think we might need one in the future? If so, how many Crestwood residents do you think will vote for that after getting their $11. a month increase from MSD, the Metrolink 1/2 cent sales tax increase on the November ballot and St. Louis County's anticipated tax increase? And we haven't even talked about others who haven't announced their plans like Lindbergh, Special School dist, or St Louis Zoo. Do you really think this city has a Snowball chance in hell of getting that passed after citizens get hit with these increases? My money says no.
So...basically the city tried to do a money grab before everyone else? Was this a matter of timing and not immediate need?
8:51
I agree with your comments and NO i will not vote for any further tax increases and that includes Crestwood. Not now or anytime in the future. You see whether 11:05 is right or wrong really doesn't matter now does it. but I will say that I would feel a lot more comfortable knowing I am not going to get hit with those taxes and have to pay higher fire and police taxes to someone like affton, Fenton or Mehlville and have no future say in how my taxes are being spent. At least in Crestwood I have a better chance of getting what I want than if I was a part of a bigger st. Louis County.
11:05 AM blogger: Bingo, and that is why I am dead set against it (other than the fact that the so called cuts weren't!)
8:53 AM blogger: I have serious doubt's we "need" a tax increase at all, but as for now, we need to let Jim Eckrige evaluate what we do need, minus the emotion.
This has gotten to the point of people shouting at others at meetings, and leaders telling some of us we don't understand which is silly to say the least!
We are trying to get more businesses into Crestwood, and what do we do? Well we raise the commercial property tax by up to 50% over what it is now, and tax the rest of us to the point of no return.
I have read all the bravo sierra about us "not wanting to pay our own way," or you don't know, or the hysterical rantings from some on the prop 1 committee who apparently feel we, the great unwashed are but fool's who must have their superior guidance.
Yes, I have read all sides and listened to far more than I wanted too, and now that we are down to the wire on this, I would like to repeat my slogan on this proposition: "A crestwoodian voting for a tax increase is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders!
Think about it!!!
Tom Ford
Personally, hearing both sides of the tax issue is good. Taking the high road to do this is also good. Whatever the stance. Color me with open ears. However a letter in a local paper from a Mr. Knarr was without regard for the residents of our city. The insulting way he addressed the issue was actually uncalled for. Where does he get off thinking one should move to another city if we don't like tax increases. His disregard for the feelings of those who question the tax increase and his disrespect for same spoke badly for his cause. s. Surely there was a better way to drum up yes votes. I saw other letters which took a higher road and presented their side with respect and class.
Somehow, whatever the outcome; it will be time to stay informed and aligned with our future. Time to knock off the political nonsense and hatefulness. How does this bode well for a city which needs to deal with some major issues. Just like the darned Ballpark Village, our city cannot continue to grease the affluent hands of developers. We will need to get creative. Easier done with a united base.
9:58 Anyone has the right to state how they feel for or against the tax increase. You are obviously against it, but chastise Steve Knarr for being for it and hurting your itty bitty feelings because of his convictions; i.e. "where does he get off trying to tell us to move to another city". His feedom of speech, his call. Just like your's.
You had no problem glorifying those who were against the tax increase regarding to their comments, did you? Had those individuals hurt the feelings of proponents of the tax increase, you wouldn't blink an eye.
I am weighing all the facts and want to hear both sides. You say you want to be prepared to vote on the issue, but it sounds to me like you already have your mind made up.
You want us to believe that you are so fair and so righteous. If this were really true, you would have never even put your comment about Steve Knarr on this blog. Steve Knarr and the rest of those for or against a tax increase, don't need your approval to say what they feel.
Give me a break
10:50AM blogger, ET AL: Mr. Steve Knarr does indeed have the right to call them as he sees them!
If I may, I would like to suggest ALL of us take it a bit easy on Steve, as he is a great citizen of Crestwood who has served with distinction in the past.
Also, for those of you who do not know it, he has just lost his Wife to cancer, and he is now raising two kids on his own!
He needs our help and encouragement, not our scorn for something that will end on August 6th. 2008, one way or the other.
I have reflected on the strange irony of this very divisive issue coming to the finish on August 6th. (the same day Col. Paul Tibbits dropped the first atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan!)
Japan and the U.S. are now the best of friends, I can only pray that we follow that lead, and come together for a better Crestwood after the election.
Tom Ford
Knarr has a right to say what he wants to say, but he used the possible loss of service (e.g. threats) in his diatribe. Plus McMansions in Whitecliff - that was a bit much.
I thought the proponents of Proposition 1 were not going to use threats of loss of services?
Well where do you draw the line on what people say regarding a tax increase?
If people who oppose the increase can state what they feel, good, bad or indifferent, why is there a different criteria for proponents especially if they believe that down the road we will loose services? How do you know we won't loose services? You call a comment a threat? I don't call that a threat at all unless it is in your mind. It is a theory and that is what you and others do all the time on this blog.
I have heard people on this blog get so high and mighty with their remarks regarding the blame game and some of the comments for opposition to this tax increase are down right ignorant. Don't hear you crabbing about that. But the minute someone voices their opinion in favor of the tax increase and gives their opinions, they are called threats and are stymied from what they can or cannot say?
Steve Knarr is indeed a good man and has served Crestwood well through the years. He has shown by his continued volunteerism on boards and commissions that he really cares about Crestwood and has devoted his own time to the city and his efforts are well known.
I for one, think he, better than many of you, can say how he feels even though I may not agree with him. He has been around a long time and probably knows a lot more than most of us.
Good work, Steve. I hope and pray that you will get through this bad cycle in your life and I applaud your right to say how you feel. Now I think Steve Knarr should be left alone, and not criticized for how he feels, don't you? At least when he says something, he signs his name.
So, just vote how you feel and let Mr. Knarr vote his conscience as well.
Thanks.
Sandy Grave
5:35 PM, July 23, 2008
and
9:55 AM, July 24, 2008
Greer aside, this particular case is unusual because all or most raises are put into a budget and passed by the BOA when they pass the budget. These recent round of raises have been referred to as "corrections" which took effect mid-year. And from what I have heard, they were implemented BEFORE the BOA approved them. At issue is timing. Were these corrections included in this year's budget? That is what I have heard. Anyone else hear different?
Corruption, that is all this is, Chief of Police needs to go.
As a Crestwood resident for 12 years, I have loved living here on all levels until the past 6 weeks, when I learned that the Police Chief was awarded a substantial pay increase without any public knowledge, much less approval. Over the past year, I have tried several times to talk with the chief on several different issues; I find him barely civil, arrogant and extraordinarily self-assured. I know a number of policemen, as friends and through work, and none of them share the attributes I see in Mr. Paillou. His attitude brought up red flags for me and the apparently underhanded manner of increasing his pay brings up further questions about his personal agenda, his political ambitions, and what role the genuine welfare of Crestwood plays in that agenda -- if any.
Post a Comment
<< Home