The City, Prop. 1, the committee, and the Call!
Well by now those of you who do read the Call (and received it today) know that I did in fact file a query with the Missouri Ethics Commission reference the August 5Th, ballot (the tax increase.) The complaint has many questions I would like answered, and since the BOA voted the investigation requested (by Alderman) down, I feel the Ethics Board is the correct venue.
This issue is a multi faceted one, in that we saw the City Attorney say (last night) that he reviewed the news letter for content, but had he known that this was not a City sponsored meeting, he would have advised against the use of the "Crestwood Connections" as a vehicle to inform the public. He also stated that the use of the reverse 911 system was probably not a good idea considering it was a "private committee."
Well I agree completely Mr. Golterman, but I wonder why you never asked anyone who was requesting the use of the City resources? I know the use of the word "assumed" is all the rage these day's, but your charged with keeping this City out of trouble (for $275.00 per hour) and I do not expect you to assume anything! That is a "failure to communicate" if ever I have seen one my friend!
Now, you may or may not know that this will take some time for the commission to complete it's investigation, so please be patient, and I will advise everyone through this blog of the outcome.
If you have questions about this "oversight," please call your Alderman and tell him how you feel about the use of your monies for a four color newsletter, and reverse 911 for private use by a political action committee.
FLASH!!!!!! PLEASE CLICK ON THE HEADER FOR A STORY IN THE SOUTH COUNTY TIMES TITLED: ALDERMAN ADMIT MISTAKES!!!!! I think this will open the eyes of everyone in Crestwood who thought all was good and proper!
I love Alderman Roby's remark that "we weren't running on four filled tires" until Jim Eckrich came aboard! Greg, you can borrow my "Obama tire inflation gauge" if you need it my friend!
Tom Ford
NO. 534
This issue is a multi faceted one, in that we saw the City Attorney say (last night) that he reviewed the news letter for content, but had he known that this was not a City sponsored meeting, he would have advised against the use of the "Crestwood Connections" as a vehicle to inform the public. He also stated that the use of the reverse 911 system was probably not a good idea considering it was a "private committee."
Well I agree completely Mr. Golterman, but I wonder why you never asked anyone who was requesting the use of the City resources? I know the use of the word "assumed" is all the rage these day's, but your charged with keeping this City out of trouble (for $275.00 per hour) and I do not expect you to assume anything! That is a "failure to communicate" if ever I have seen one my friend!
Now, you may or may not know that this will take some time for the commission to complete it's investigation, so please be patient, and I will advise everyone through this blog of the outcome.
If you have questions about this "oversight," please call your Alderman and tell him how you feel about the use of your monies for a four color newsletter, and reverse 911 for private use by a political action committee.
FLASH!!!!!! PLEASE CLICK ON THE HEADER FOR A STORY IN THE SOUTH COUNTY TIMES TITLED: ALDERMAN ADMIT MISTAKES!!!!! I think this will open the eyes of everyone in Crestwood who thought all was good and proper!
I love Alderman Roby's remark that "we weren't running on four filled tires" until Jim Eckrich came aboard! Greg, you can borrow my "Obama tire inflation gauge" if you need it my friend!
Tom Ford
NO. 534
posted by Crestwood Independent at 17:36
70 Comments:
Thank you, Tom, for stepping up and asking the big questions, and finally taking some action to hold people accountable for what goes on.
Yes, thanks Tom. I, like you, just want to find out what happened and why and to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Someone else on this blog posted that reverse 911 should be used for emergencies or street construction - i.e.official city business. I couldn't agree more.
Tom, what about the police department raises and the closed sessions that people are also screaming about. Are they also considered illegal? People are also upset about those two issues.
At least someone is taking the time and effort to get the answers to these questions.
The only alderman who is informing or looking out for the citizens appears to be Alderman Miguel.
Everytome he tries to talk in the past BOA meetings, he's "quieted" by the Mayor. I see now that it should be the other way around.
Thank You
7:49 PM
Tom, I hope you don't mind, but I like to throw my two cents in (probably worth much less!) to answer this question for the 7:49 poster.
The police department raises and the closed sessions are two very important concerns. Alderman Nieder tried to get to the bottom of the raises by asking for an investigation or inquiry. He was shot down. However, the issue still remains.
The closed sessions, at least the number of them which has significantly increased under this administration, is another issue to be addressed. But I am not sure how.
Tom's inquiry into the Ethics Commission addresses concerns regarding the use of the city's reverse-911 and Crestwood Connections for Proposition 1. The reverse-911 was used to notify residents of meetings held by the proponents of Proposition 1. These meetings were not held by city officials.
8:49, who and how shot down Alderman Nieder, I want to know since I couldnt be there who did this to him.
Tom, you say Golterman reviewed the newsletter but was not told (he didnt know)the group presenting the meetings were not aldermen. This means to me that he was kept in the dark on purpose, for as the Mayor told Trueblood, everything had been reviewed by city legal staff. But what the Mayor didnt say was what Golterman was told to review.
Classic example of using half truths to get out of a tight spot by the Mayor. Golterman sounds like he was duped by those in favor of Prop 1.
regarding Nieder and a request for investigation - There was a vote taken. It went fast so I don't know exactly, but I'll review the tape and post soon.
This weeks issue of the Call states that many people who went to the "town hall meetings" felt they had been, misled, to use a kinder word.(I'd like to use "lied to", but feel that might ruffle some of the more gentle readers of this blog) If what has been reported here tonight is correct, Goldterman was also misled (lied to) about the true nature of the "Town Hall Meetings".
What former Alderman Trueblood is quoted as having said at his meeting is true based on what Golterman said last night, those meetings were illegal!
Thanks again Tom for sending in your inquire to the Ethics Commission.
Thanks Aldermen Nieder for attempting to enforce the Charter and laws of our City with your motion for the BOA to start a public investigation.
Next a question; what can the rest of us do to find out who is behind all of this corruption?
'what can the rest of us do to find out who is behind all of this corruption?'
Freedom of Information Requests might be one avenue -
http://ci.crestwood.mo.us/docs/departments/administrative/Sunshine%20Law%20Records%20Request.pdf
I just realized that my 9:37 post sounds like I think Golterman is not at fault. Well on the Prop mess, he may not be, but the raises and closed door meetings and who knows what else, he is accountable.
7:49 PM blogger: These are two separate issues completely. I am asking the public service commission to investigate the Police salary increases and promotions as that is their venue.
I am looking into (with the help of the ethics board) the expenditures by the City for what turned out to be a political action committee, as well as the political action committee for possible violations of the election rules.
9:37 PM blogger: Mr. Golterman said he "Reviewed the newsletter for content," but was unaware that a private group was involved. He then stated that had he known that it was NOT a "City Town Hall Meeting" he would have advised against it!
I believe the Mayors secretary new that it was not a "City" meeting, as did the ones who requested the meetings in the first place, getting them to admit it will be almost impossible as by now they have "circled the wagons" on this one!
7:45 PM blogger: Alderman Miguel has done a yeoman's job of watching out for us, but please do not forget Alderman Nieder! He is committed to the fight on our side, and is a great ally!
9:44 PM blogger: There was indeed a vote taken with THREE of our finest abstaining, TWO for, and THREE against, thus the defeat!
ABSTAINING? what a world class weather vain you have to be to abstain from a vote to uncover the truth!
Tom Ford
Oh good grief, Golterman did not know he was approving a meeting that was not city sponsored? Get real? Is he being paid 275/hr to not inquire about what he is approving? Does he aprove everything that goes into the bulletin and on the reverse 911, and if not, then wasn't he sorta wondering why he was asked this time? Let's face it Mz Helen and Mr. Golterman knew the facts and both need to go. Not too hard to figure that one. OR, do we just want to continue this same kind of activity that went on with Greer - everything insider, then accept no blame? It is beginning to sound just like the past "in the land of secrets and corruption" Now is time to cut this off before it goes a step further. This is how it all got started before. No one is watching the store. It matters not that Roy thinks these two are the cat's meow. He is just one person, not 9. Did you get it, both the above need to GO! If they knew it was wrong then they snuck it through, if they didn't know it was wrong, they are either stupid, cunning or without conscience and being led by those who wanted the tax increase to win which includes employees at city hall. Now, got it. Us out here do not want this kind of city employee. Ever.
What do we need to do to request that the city attorney be replaced. It seems that this would be a good place to start in an effort at open government.
Also, how do we confront the Mayor when he is rude to an alderman, i.e. Mr. Nieder, who is a very good representative of his people, and the community as a whole and is smart and honest. If he is not allowed to represent his constituants without being ostrasized by the Mayor, then something is gravely wrong. It is hard to understand why a Mayor thinks he can be so rude to an alderman, or visa versa for that matter. Afterall, we did get rid of TT and Kelleburr. Thank heavens.
Also, how can the Ward 2 Aldermen be replaced. They do nothing and care less, unless their private pool is involved. They are so transparent along with the Bland alderman.
REally, secret meetings, rudeness, incorrect usage of reverse 911 and city bulletin, a city attorney who knows zip.
Geeze,can it get worse? If 8 aldermen cannot toughen up and raise serious issues, what do you expect us to do vote yes on a tax increase?
Not agonna happen, so don't bring it up again until the bunch up there starts to earn their MONTHLY SALARY and grows some courage. Going along to get along does not work in this town. When that happens, we get a GreerDoom.
6:23 PM blogger: Well if Mr. Golterman did not know, that's a serious problem, if he did, well that's much worse!
I still say that the Mayors secretary knows who was responsible for the newsletter and the reverse 911, and if she wasn't, who was?
We do know that Frank Arnoldy recorded the reverse 911 (as he always does,) but what we do not know is who told him to do it.
There are very few people with the "juice" to get this done up there, so, "who done it?"
We also know who requested it be done (admitted to at a ward meeting,) but still we don't know who OK'd this.
The Mayors secretary has been a long time and faithful employee of Crestwood, and I do not hold her responsible for this "Fax pas," but I am having a hard time understanding why the City attorney "didn't know!"
If we are to have open and honest Government as we should, we need some answers! Call Mr. Jim Eckrige, call the Mayor, call your Alderman, ask them for the truth on this matter because until it's answered, their credibility is in the tank!
Tom Ford
I am not really sure I know who Helen is. I think she works for the mayor and city administrator. But I do know who Rob Golterman is.
So if Helen is holding a secretarial position and is responsible for getting the Newsletter out, and Golterman is suppose to read it over to make sure everything is printed within the confines of the law, why should Helen's name even enter into this issue?
If I were in charge of the newsletter, and the attorney representing the city said it was OK to print, I would have trusted his judgement. So why would you want to throw her under the bus? Her job overseeing the newsletter could consist of structuring it and checking for grammatical errors but she shouldn't have to understand the legal or illegal content like an attorney, should she?
I think that just because she is working for the mayor and/or whoever else in the office, you are throwing her in the mix just because of who she is working for. Should she be forced to quit her job because you are upset with the administration? She is not an elected official. She is nothing more than a secretary trying to do her job so why throw her out? She has no say so about what happens.
If you feel she should be fired, what would be your basis for it? Helen is not an attorney and it is not her position to understand legal implications. If Rob Golterman came up to me and said, this newsletter is ready to be printed, I wouldn't have batted an eye and his word would have been good enough for me.
If the laws of the City of Crestwood or any other municipality were so clearly defined that everyone would know all the laws, we wouldn't need a City Attorney then would we.
Sandy Grave
Helen Ingold and the Citizens for Prop 1 committee are tight. There's where to start looking to figure out who let that group run the town hall meetings.
Why wasn't the police chief at the board of alderman meeting during questioning of those raises? Where was he hiding, and did roy tell him to hide?
Who 'shot down' the request to investigate those raises? Some very important points have been made on this blog. Why was a secretary who didn't even work there at the time get a pay raise when supposedly pay increases are frozen? Why were these raises given under the table? Are employees in other departments getting any raises, or just roy's buddy in the police department gets to hand out increased pay?
It's suspicious how this got by when there was no permanent city administrator running the city. What else was allowed to go on that we don't even know about?
Why hasn't this police chief been fired for his actions? Why was an investigation 'shot down'?
So much for transparency, huh?
How did "we" get TT and Kelleburr out?
And is Ward Two better represented now than then?
Final question, name the elected official(s) current and past who have stood up at a public meeting and questioned what actions going on at that meeting?
Answer, Miguel, Nieder and Trueblood are the only names I am aware of from having been to many meetings and and to the recent town hall meetings. Interesting alliance.
I believe that Golterman should go due to closed door meeting and pay raise issue.
I believe that Golterman was not told who would be running the town hall meetings when he oked the newsletter.
I believe that the Mayor the acting C/A Chief Kesler and the Police Chief conspired behind the BOA's back to violate the Charter with the illegal pay raises and for that, the 3 must go if we are to have a corrupt free city.
I believe the Civil Service Comm lead by Martha Duchild must hold their own public investigations of the events listed above. I believe that while the Charter gives the power to do so, it does not give them the power to act on their findings.
Only 2 groups can do that, the BOA,
which the majority I believe can not be trusted, and we the Citizens with our power for recall, petition and referendum.
Do we have the guts to do what the BOA is lacking, I believe will be the ultimate question. After all if we got rid TT and Kelleburr, why cant we do this same now?
As a Ward 2 resident, no question my representation isn't what it used to be. Pickel and the new guy are more followers than leaders. Then again Kelleher wasn't much better. But as much as I never thought I would say this, I miss Trueblood on the board. The previous poster is correct. Miguel, Nieder, Trueblood all asked the tough questions. Anyone know when Trueblood's term limit ends? My ward needs a leader like him back!
Tim Trueblood asked some great questions at the mayor's townhall meeting and the recent Prop 1 meeting. While he asked great questions, I don't think the mayor gave sufficient answers.
Tim was right about the Prop 1 meetings. They were not townhall meetings which are hosted by city officials. The Prop 1 meetings were meetings hosted by the Prop 1 campaign committee. The city's reverse 911 was used to notify residents of a meeting by a campaign committee to promote Prop 1.
Does that inspire confidence and trust in your city?
It makes me wonder what direction our city is going.
If city resources can be used for private entities, where does it stop? Are fire trucks available for parties? What about taking a police car out for a night on the town? Granted, that's being rather dramatic, but I hope you get my point.
Whether you agree with them or not, Nieder, Miguel, and Trueblood have guts.
The secretary is not what I call a "long time employee". She has been there only around 7 years-under 10 for sure.
Your right though, she might be in charge of the content of the news letter but you can be sure that final approval and content was, at the very least, given by the Mayor and City Admin. The City attorney also said he read it and approved it but I doubt very seriously that he did.
No, it's not the secretaries fault at all. She is just doing her job and what she is told to do by her bosses.
For the 911 message to be sent out, one would have to believe he was instructed to do so by either his boss or or someone in our cities admin.
But....as many people say, the alderman will not divulge or investigate and if one of them tries to get some answers, he is shut down by the Mayor.
Also....if you think the City Administrator runs this City, you are wrong. He cannot do anything without the Mayors approval.
I believe that was what alderman Miguel alluded to in the last paragraph in his statement to the paper.Something about the new CA is smart enough not to play politics. The problem is, the Mayor is not going to approve and reccomend anyone that isn't going to do what he tells them to do.
Everyone knows that up there.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/ED2A6593918A919C862574A600114F3F?OpenDocument
"Aldermen head off investigation
Crestwood — Aldermen voted 4-2 to reject a proposal to re-open an investigation into the use of the city newsletter and automatic phone-dialing system to promote a 35-cent property tax rate increase that voters rejected on Aug. 5.
At a meeting Tuesday night, the majority of the board agreed there was miscommunication in calling a series of pro-tax meetings in July "town hall" meetings. After the vote, several board members agreed there should be better monitoring of such campaign activities when another proposal is before voters.
This year's rate will be 37.8 cents on residences, only .4 cents above last year, as allowed by state law. The rate on commercial property will increase 7.2 cents to 48.4 cents, reflecting a $16 million commercial valuation decline related to the Crestwood Court mall. The new rates are to be adopted on Aug. 26."
I'm not sure if the word "re-open" is correct. I think the board member wanted to open an investigation.
Has anyone else noticed that the pro-Roy crowed has quietly disappeared for the blog?
10:28 I don't know about all of the other issues going on and who or what is done about them, but I agree with what you have said about the secretary in charge of the newsletter.
I am just glad that you agree with me on this because in her position, it is not her job to question what she is told to print in The Crestwood Connections.
For anyone to feel she should be fired for what she is told to do, or if anyone thinks it is her job to know whether or not something is illegal or legal is really a stretch. If that is true, then she should be a lawyer for the city and is grossly underpaid.
Making a statement that she is "tied" to the Prop. 1 Committee without real proof is going some. If you signed your name to that comment, you could be in for a big lawsuit siting defemation of character.
In her position, she has to be polite and at liberty to speak to everyone, those who are for or against any issue. If the opposition requests information, she needs to cooperate with them as well as those who are for any issue.
I hope that she isn't accused of things that are mere assumptions or bad judgements or what someone said to someone else, and gossip that loops her into the political side of this arena.
Helen, in her position, has to be a real diplomat; she has to be kind and civil to everyone and maybe that was all she was doing in the first place.
If anyone feels the need to question public officials they need take them to task and to be made accountable. But leave the little guys alone for heaven sake.
Sandy Grave
Your absolutely correct Sandy! In no way is she to blame. Don't kill the messenger.
The "Board" knows who is at fault and responsible for the content and approval of the newsletter as well as the reverse 911 notification to citizens.
So, if they did open an investigation, it would be completed in 5 minutes. Look at the Mayor for the newsletter and a department head for the reverse 911 messages.
This isn't brain surgery nor is this City the size of St. Louis. Everyone in City Hall knows who calls the shots for these items.
These 2 people think they can do anything they want, anytime they want. Both are way over their heads in their position and it's obvious that neither is remotely qualified for the job.
The Board is just trying to cover them because everyone is calling for their "heads".They are hoping the outcry will just go away.
Sandy
At the Ward Two meeting, Helen said to the crowd there that she and Char were responsible for the actions of all the town hall meeting. She along with Char planned the meetings, she along with Char, put the newsletter together. Which if you read Alderman Miguel's statements said the graphics in the newsletter were the same as in the town hall meetings.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if it walks like s duck, floats like a duck, then it just may be a duck. Plus Roy has said to the Times on line that he knew nothing about the meetings until he went to them.
10:25 AM
A lot of them, myself included, have changed their minds.
In that case...fire her, the Police Chief, and recall the Mayor as well as the alderman who voted no for the investigation.
If our BOA members refuse to do anything about this, it's time for citizen petitions and to talk to the media...perhaps Elliot Davis can get some answers for us.
1:20 So you are telling me that no one, not even the city attorney, is there to sanction what is written in the newsletter? So nobody is checking the content, and it goes out without approval from the big guns? I am really confused!
I just want issues to be dealt with on the up and up. And I want the employees to be dealt with fairly, that's all.
I use to sit in Helen's seat and it's not as easy as it looks; so I am hoping that Helen and everyone else is treated honestly and not shoved into politics. Politics is fical and politics can squash you like a shoe on a tomato.
So I very much appreciate the info and thanks for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
1:20 So you are telling me that no one, not even the city attorney, is there to sanction what is written in the newsletter? So nobody is checking the content, and it goes out without approval from the big guns? I am really confused!
I just want issues to be dealt with on the up and up. And I want the employees to be dealt with fairly, that's all.
I use to sit in Helen's seat and it's not as easy as it looks; so I am hoping that Helen and everyone else is treated honestly and not shoved into politics. Politics is fickle and politics can squash you like a shoe on a tomato.
So I very much appreciate the info but I am holding out on an opinion on this one to see how this ends, which I hope it does. Let's see what happens.
Thanks for your consideration.
Sandiikzqy Grave
PS Sorry my comment showed up twice. Also mispelled fickle.
Sandy Grave
Sandy,
the problem isn't what was written in the Newsletter, that was ok, the problem was what was written was NOT what was done. What was done may have been illegal and those in charge of those events were members of the Citizens for Prop 1 and Helen.
Helen was at the meeting I attended, she freely admitted to having been a part of the group that planned the events, events that were not as described in the newsletter.Understand?
Explain "guts." Ole Timmy T sure lost them when his pal Greer stomped all over our city. Sorry, guy, but memories are long when it comes to almost getting a very expensive new city hall redo and some childish political pranks on the dais. Not a thing wrong with asking good questions, but again don't expect us to forget so soon. Ward 2 has not had decent representation for so long one cannot remember. The real test came when this resident had the opportunity to make his special kind of waves when he did not put a stop to the private swim club up on its new preposteros spot behind city hall. History, I don't think so, as long as it hovers over a past quiet neighborhood and uses our city hall parking lot and has changed the pristine nature of the area, it is not forgetable. Ward 2 aldermen only run for office to protect this private venture and Mr. T could have raised a lot more of his brand of "cain." Where was his roar when we needed it? His objections to things seem to relate to politics.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/ED2A6593918A919C862574A600114F3F?OpenDocument
Copy and paste for a St. Louis Post Dispatch story.
Tom Ford
By childish pranks do you mean by his asking the Mayor to honor the Charter, or his
voting no to TIF at Kohls, or voting against the pool, city hall deal, or his asking the Mayor conduct the BOA meetings by Roberts Rules to stop the misbehaviour of it's members, or being the only Alderman to propose and get passed rules that allowed the City to set the restrictive standards for any abortion service attempting to set up business in the city, or do you mean when he left the room when an under the influence Kelly Isherwood wouldn't/couldn't answer his questions?
Do you mean by pranks when
Elliot Davis followed him into the BOA meeting and our Mayor ran Mr. Davis out? Do mean his pranks of keeping his promise to never vote for a tax increase that the voters didn't have a vote on?
Do you mean by pranks his email letters to Ward Two before and after BOA meetings telling the readers what had happened at the meeting. Do you mean by pranks his driving his car up on the steps of city hall so it's lights would allow the BOA to hold it's meeting on time in public due to an electric outage? Or do you mean by his voting no to going to executive session because the people have a right to know?
By the way, what was Trueblood's "private venture" that he protected by running for ward two alderman?
That's a pretty bold charge of you to make, can you it up?
Tim Trueblood served the city well. Did I agree with all of his stances? No, not always, but sometimes I did. He is analytical and cares for his city. Quite frankly, we could use him now to counter balance Roy's imperialistic attitude.
Tim Trueblood served the city well. Did I agree with all of his stances? No, not always, but sometimes I did. He is analytical and cares for his city. Quite frankly, we could use him now to counter balance Roy's imperialistic attitude.
Let me rephrase that -
We need him now to counter balance Roy's imperialistic attitude. He has asked the questions citizens need answers for.
5:46/48 PM blogger: Correct, I do believe we need Mr. Tim Trueblood back in the seat now "gently" occupied by Mr. Chris Pickle!
Mr. Pickle is a very nice guy, and therein lies the problem! We need a man who will stand up to this nonsense generated by the so called powers that be in City hall, and Tim has proven he will do just that!
I know, we have "crossed swords" in the past, but with age comes wisdom! And I know see just what he was trying to accomplish for Crestwood!
If you consider all the facts, and you think I am right, please join me in urging Mr. Tim to return to the Ward Two seat for the betterment of Ward Two!
Tom Ford
Miguel asserted that he thought the citizens and employees meant well and "it was unintentional, but there was a breach of city resources. My gut feeling is that people got caught up and things happened."
Is that why we have two swimming pools in Crestwood?
The aldermen agreed that they didn't want to "throw anybody under the bus," "shoot anybody" or "tie them up and let people throw rocks at them."
"What's the point of investigating if we don't want any repercussions?" said Alderman Chris Pickel.
Hod did Alderman Chris Pickel benefit from the Kohl's deal and a new city parking lot?
I agree with you Tom. I also wasn't a Trueblood fan and fell for the incoming regimes talk.
Now I see that it was all talk in the first place and no action or substance. He skated by for a year while he embarrassed the City and now it's finally coming to the surface that he has no idea what he is doing.
He would do well to have the new CA run the City, at least that way he would have someone to blame.
I,my family and friends will all vote for the Truebloods out there.
08/15/2008
Crestwood — Aldermen voted 4-2 to reject a proposal to re-open an investigation into the use of the city newsletter and automatic phone-dialing system to promote a 35-cent property tax rate increase that voters rejected on Aug. 5.
At a meeting Tuesday night, the majority of the board agreed there was miscommunication in calling a series of pro-tax meetings in July "town hall" meetings. After the vote, several board members agreed there should be better monitoring of such campaign activities when another proposal is before voters.
This year's rate will be 37.8 cents on residences, only .4 cents above last year, as allowed by state law. The rate on commercial property will increase 7.2 cents to 48.4 cents, reflecting a $16 million commercial valuation decline related to the Crestwood Court mall. The new rates are to be adopted on Aug. 26.
What happened to our Mayor's promises that I want to be open and honest?
What is the Mayor's definition of intentional and unintentional?
How can placing an article in the city's newsletter and using the reverse 911 not be intentional to win an election no matter what it takes?
Does unintentional mean that someone hacked their computer system and submitted the Prop 1 article and sent out a reverse 911 call automatically?
Who is in charge of our city?
Is it the unintentional people that doesn't believe in accountability and signatures?
Who is signing off on the money?
Yes, that's a good question as to why the Police Chief wasn't at an important BOA meeting to answer the citizens questions.
Do you think he intentionally stayed away so that he would not be in a position to answer questions? Do you think he was instructed to do so?
I would think a department head would want to be at an important meeting such as this one, to clear things up for the residents.
Oh well, I'm surprised the Mayor was there but he had to make sure that no investigation vote would take place.
At the BOA meeting on Tuesday night, was your question and answer issue on the agenda? If not, how would the mayor know in advance to make sure the police chief would be at the meeting to answer any questions; therefore, why would the mayor have instructed the chief to stay away?
Why was this meeting called important? Because the tax increase failed? I would think the worst would be over by this last meeting. Maybe it was important to you because you had all your questions ready.
Was the police chief made aware that he would be interrogated by the people so they he would deliberately stay away? I am just asking because I don't know. Or were you just assuming too much.
The conspiracy keeps getting more dubious and mysterious every time I read this blog.
If there are questions to be answered, regarding police raises, reverse 911 calls, and newsletter problems, that should be done at a special meeting of the board of aldermen. I don't know how that is done, but the way it sounds, if and when that occurs, I am sure it will turn out to be a screaming match.
Needless to say, these things are like volcanos that keep building up gas. I don't want to be around when it erupts.
Tom,
What happens to politicians when they do whatever they want?
Please explain their accountability.
How do they sleep at night?
How do they keep track of all of their promises?
10:05 PM blogger:
"What happens to politicians when they do whatever they want?
Please explain their accountability.
How do they sleep at night?
How do they keep track of all of their promises?"
Good questions all. What happens in some cases is they are removed from office in disgrace, but that happens far too few times.
They are supposed to have FULL ACCOUNTABILITY to the taxpayer's, but what with closed door sessions, secret meetings, they don't, and never will! It is up to us, the "great unwashed" to watch them like a hawk. It's the old "Trust but verify" that Ronald Reagan use so effectively.
Fortunately we have a series of checks and balances put in place to allow us to keep an eye on them. Freedom Of Information Forms, complaint letters to the State Ethics Committee, the Attorney General, ETC.
How do they sleep at night? Well, I have no idea, I have a hard enough time just thinking about what I hear and see them trying to do!
Keep track? They don't, that's why we hear so many "changes in position!"
"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts, absolutely!" Disraeli.
Tom Ford
8:46 PM blogger: I really doubt the Police Chief was told to "stay out" of the meeting. I believe he was out of town on vacation.
We all want to be careful that we don't fall into the trap of "conspiracy theory." Think about the "moon-bats" who still believe 911 was an "inside job!"
Please remember that a lot of what may look like a plot, isn't. And what looks innocent may indeed not be! I an sure you all know what a "Minataur" is, so keep your eye on the target, what is, not what we want it to be.
Tom Ford
4:17 PM, 8/15 Blogger: Mr. Trueblood DID try to do something to stop the "cement pond" at City hall, he VOTED AGAINST IT!
He was one of the only people on that board to do so. If you remember several "pool members" on the P&Z board voted to grant a CUP to the pool, and it was approved by the board, minus Tim Trueblood!
He was right on that one, and he is right now when he stands up to the board and the Mayor, reference the current shenanigans!
Tom Ford
Well, there seems to be a lot of opinions on these latest issues. And when I hear some of them, I just get more confused as I read along.
Because some people have been very forthcoming to give out information on this blog, I appreciate it very much. But it raises lots of questions.
So all I can say is that back in 1973 the Civil Service Rules and Regulations were enacted to keep politics out of the employment with the city.
It was an arm of the State of Missouri's rules and regulations and it was followed to the letter with clear and concise guidelines copy of which was sent to the State of Missouri.
With it there was a time table, grades and steps in each grade. Each department head knew exactly who was getting a raise and who wasn't in that particular step. The department head then would incorporate it into the budget for that year.
Don Greer changed it and told me he was the Civil Service Rules and Regulations. His new system was not approved by the Missouri civil service commission and they did not receive a copy of them.
Now, I don't know what goes on presently, but I would like to see some qualified people serve on a committee and start redoing the rules to be fair and in union with what the State has on their books.
I think that the employees should not be involved in "any" political action group, and that things that are done, should be doubt free of anything that is done that would be considered contraversial.
There should be no favoritism and the guidelines should be honored by the mayor, board of aldermen, department heads and city employment. It should be simple. We should all be tired of interlopers who are nothing more than wolves in sheeps clothing who want to "rule" city hall with their own type of dictatorship and that goes for now and then.
If people are honest and fair, and live by the laws and ethics; there is nothing anyone can do or say that can't be justified. If not, like one of the Astronant's said, "Houston, we have a problem".
Thank you for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
Dear Mr. Ford,
Your friend Mike Heins has been saying some very nasty things about you to local Democrats.
"Don Greer changed it and told me he was the Civil Service Rules and Regulations. His new system was not approved by the Missouri civil service commission and they did not receive a copy of them."
Sandy, Please what the heck are you talking about this time? Unless the BOA changed the rules Greer had no say what the rules were, so do you have a copy of the changed rules? Or did Greer just bluff you into believing he was the rules?
You don't know what the rules are now, ask Ms. Duchild, she and two others on the Commission what they are now as they presented to the Board and voters the current rules in place after a favorable vote.
Since you don't know what the rules are now how do you know they were not broken?
Please Sandy, please, find someone else to blame for all the ills in Crestwood.
9:55 Am Blogger : Mr. Heins is still living in America, I think, so he is free to say what he wants to about me.
As long as he says it to democRATS, I have no problem.
I guess he must be mad that I am talking to the Call, and others. Sorry Mike, it is what it is, and it is not going to change.
Tom Ford
9:59 AM blogger: If I am not mistaken Mr. Greer has not "risen from the dead," therefore, I would tend to think we should start focusing on the curent problem!
I have said this here many times, politicians use all sorts of things to take our eye off the problem, and "blame the dead guy" is but one of them.
Keep focused on whats going on at City Hall right now, this is our chance to insure open and honest Government in Crestwood, please do not be misled by things that don't matter!
Tom Ford
9:59 OMG Pack a lunch and dinner on this one.
This isn't about Greer; his name was mentioned; so what? And you had to make a federal case out of what I said. So not only are you shoving my comment in my face, you are also calling me a liar, which I deeply resent. Remember, you just opened the can, I didn't. Remember that Tom before you site me. I am returning a comment on my "inquisition".
You want a war? Forget it, it ain't gonna happen.
Conversations between Kent and Greer were an every day occurence and they were not all behind closed doors and they were not all good. I heard Greer threaten to quit if Kent didn't give him what he wanted from cars to computers to changing the rules.
You think you know everything? You don't know squat. You only know what Greer told you; that's all you know.
And now you have to hurt me with your words. If you are Tim Trueblood, I can't believe you would hurt me like this. You above all people, the one person I thought was so fair. What happened?
The original and updated rules and regulations used to have steps and levels and pay grades in the them. The new one doesn't. It's restructured. The original purpose of these rules and regulations was to keep politics out of personnel. Go back into the minutes in 1973, 4 and 5, and you will see.
Greer changed those rules and called them "core values" and changed the whole structure in his infinite wisdom. The current rules were unacceptable to Greer. So Kent let him change them. Kent hated personnel anyway and Greer was more than glad to pick that ball up and he hit the ground running.
Go to city hall and compare the two documents and you will see for yourself if you think I lie.
The board of aldermen may approve the pay schedule, because it is in connection with the budget numbers. However, if you think the board of aldermen was privy to everything that went on as far as civil service and how people got raises, you are wrong.
Further, the board of aldermen are not suppose to get involved with personnel. Or at least that is what it used to be.
Don't you be raising your horn mouth to me. I was there, I heard and I saw. You think I am a liar, go ahead and be my guest, you think I am what someone called (a bitter old woman) well shame on you not me, and you want to stick with the crowd that did everything Greer said to do, too bad cause I feel sorry for you.
The mayor and board are not suppose to get involved in personnel matters period! Or let's put it this way that's what I was told when I tried to speak to the mayor and board of aldermen members back in 2003.
The rules were adhered to then. Sure, it was "just the honest thing to do" when it suited them. But did the rules and regulations protect the employee? Nope. It was also OK for them to hide the real reason the mayor resigned so as not to cause him any pain. How convenient. So, you tell me, where did you or do you draw the line with your sanctamoneous drivel about what you know and Mr. Greer? You did what you were "told" to do by by the CA/Police Chief.
I say it again. No, the civil service rules and regulations no longer protect employees from anything. Not for a long time and that's why employees have to get their own laywers.
Greer is gone but if you were Greer's friends on the board, his girlfriends and secretaries, you are so biased, you would be the ones who would resent anything said about him that is the truth now or then.
So now people want fairness and honesty with pay raises, closed door sessions, and in chopping off heads. It should have happened a long time ago.
Stop getting yourself all upset 9:59 whoever you are besides a coward who won't sign their name. If you want to sanction Greer, go ahead, get a momument with his named enscribed, pray to him like he is God. But if you want to tell me he didn't touch the rules and regulations, you lie.
I know the truth probably better than most of you do; I was there to hear what went on 1 foot away from Kent's door. You weren't.
Thanks for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
Hey Tom,
I got your comment about the "dead guy". Won't be making comments on this blog anymore.
Thanks.
Sandy Grave
3:04 PM blogger: SANDY! Please go back and re-read the post!
Your free to do as you wish of course, but please understand that my comments are directed at the fact that DON GREER is old news.
I hope you understand that while what Don Greer, ETAL did to anyone was reprehensible to you, me, and a lot of others, it's over! We can't change what was, we can only insure it never, never happens again!
That is why we need to FOCUS on the here and now, stop the curent crop from making the same mistakes as in the past, and weed out the ones who will not change!
Tom Ford
Sandy,
"No, the civil service rules and regulations no longer protect employees from anything. Not for a long time and that's why employees have to get their own laywers."
I do not appreciate your comment. The civil service board members worked very hard to ensure that the civil service rules and regulations are as clear as can be.
The civil service rules are there so that city staff and department heads understand what is expected of them, and what they can expect of the city.
Martha Duchild
Martha,
If it were anybody else but you, I wouldn't even bother answering your comment. And since you signed your name, I would like to reply.
You chastise me for my comment regarding civil service. I apologize but I would like to state my reason, if I can get anyone to listen.
Because this pay raise situation in the police department has been strained on this blog, I had to assume that the civil service rules and regulations were no longer solvent. Otherwise, why would the raises be questioned and cause such a disturbance. I hope that answers your question.
If the civil service rules were clear and concise, I felt this issue could not have been a problem. Since it seems to be a problem, if the rules were set in stone and the pay plan was correct, why couldn't this issue be handled and resolved?
I am sorry if you feel I was being inpertinent but I also stated in my comment at 2:40 8/16 that "no, I don't know what the rules and regulations presently state, but I would like to see some qualified people ....make sure the rules are fair.
Since you say they are fair and are being taken care of, I rest my case. No need to reprimand me because it was unintentional. Obviously, it is not my right to speak my views on this blog without causing friction.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
We have no pay plan. We haven't since, Frank Meyers first came and did away with it stating the "pay plan cannot be sustained because of no monies to fund it". He also said that the raises will be "budget driven". This
We do have new civil service rules and have had for the last couple of years. But, even with the old civil service rules, you can not lodge a complaint concerning pay.
Since the prop was defeated, we have been told by our dept. heads that we can expect NO raises for 4 to 6 years.
No one, except the people listed in the paper, have received a "raise" in 5 years. Now it will be 9 to 11 years. There has been 2 COLAS, 1% and some monies and 2% the last year. That was all.
Not complaining, just letting everyone know. The articles one reads in the paper, give the reader the impression that nothing will change with the defeat of the prop. and everything is fine. It isn't to us.
12:03
Amen, things aren't great!
Well according to our Mayor, there are more cuts to be made and we really didnt need the tax increase.
Regarding the Civil Service Rules, they are as good as the people who they are suposed to govern. If the Dept heads declair they don't want to obey them, then I guess they mean nothing unless someone files a complant.
We were told that the Civil Service Commission worked very hard on the rules and regulations.
Is that true cause if you don't think so, you need to call Martha Duchild.
12:03 PM blogger: Your right in what your saying about not having a raise in 5 years, and I for one am truly sorry for it.
That said however the citizens were told that prop 1 was NOT to be used for raises, but only as a stop gap measure in case the Mall shut down.
I have two sons who are in the same boat, and believe me I understand as I have not had a raise in 10 years!
I can tell you this though, my oldest son put in over 80 hours of overtime up north, and when he asked to be paid, he was told they didn't have the money and promptly gave him 10 days comp. time which he started today.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is a very lousy state of affairs that must be corrected, and soon! I hope for my sake, and the sake of all the citizens of Crestwood, you hang in there, because we need you like never before!
I will say it now that I would be for a one time (one year only) tax increase earmarked for nothing more than a year end bonus for Crestwood employees equal to 5% of their salary if we could trust the administration to do just that!
It would be interesting to run the numbers and find out the true cost per household in Crestwood.
Tom Ford
12:03,
I hear what you're saying. Sounds like you need to discuss it with the mayor. He's the one I remember reading in the paper saying the Prop 1 wasn't really needed anyway and everything will be fine. If it isn't, for God's sake, speak up. We'd love to hear from you. Speak up at a board meeting or to the paper or whoever.
The employees appreciate your comments. Just to make sure that everyone is aware, we are not complaining and enjoy working for the City. We also know that there are people on fixed incomes trying to make it, as well as other city employees in different venues, in these difficult times.
You have to understand though, we cannot, as employees, complain to the Mayor or bring it up at the Board of Alderman meetings. There is a chain of command and when your dept. head/Chief, tells you there will little if no merit raise (which is a regular raise) and little, if no COLA's for the next 4 to 6 years, which as I said before, that would make no real raise in 9 to 11 years, there is nothing you can do except, make a difficult decision for your family.
As we all understood it, the prop wasn't for raises for the employees, but operating capital when monies get tight for various projects etc..That said, all of us knew that if it didn't pass, we would also suffer and the budget would once again, be balanced on the employee, as that is the biggest budget expense.
Just want to let the readers know, because apparently they are not aware of this. So when the BOA members, the CA and the Mayor, states nothing will change with the defeat of the prop.,they mean actual services to the citizens, they don't mean the employees.
Also, the civil service rules are in place but when you get right down to it, they are only as good as current employment law, state law and federal law. That said, there are some cities that don't even have this so, it's better than nothing. The board did work very hard on it. The employees tried to get changes made in vacation, sick time etc. and a couple of changes were made, not major changes though, as it would cost the city too much.
As you are aware, major greivances usually end up in a civil suit, which is usually settled by the City with a disclaimer, that the individual cannot discuss the case. All of this is in closed session, of course, since it is a personnel matter.
"As we all understood it, the prop wasn't for raises for the employees, but operating capital when monies get tight for various projects etc..That said, all of us knew that if it didn't pass, we would also suffer and the budget would once again, be balanced on the employee, as that is the biggest budget expense.
Just want to let the readers know, because apparently they are not aware of this. So when the BOA members, the CA and the Mayor, states nothing will change with the defeat of the prop.,they mean actual services to the citizens, they don't mean the employees."
. . .If the city had explained that THIS is what Prop 1 was all about, I would have voted YES on it. But, as it was, the city leaders were too vague in their explanations of what Prop 1 would be spent on. Just telling residents that it will be spent on "services" isn't enough. We wanted to hear specifics. Sadly, we weren't given that. I attended two of the four town hall meetings and read every paper. No specifics were ever given. Combine that with the shady raises given without the board's consent and we couldn't trust what was going on
I am sorry for your difficult situation. I just wanted you to understand why so many of us voted no.
"But, as it was, the city leaders were too vague in their explanations of what Prop 1 would be spent on. Just telling residents that it will be spent on "services" isn't enough. We wanted to hear specifics. Sadly, we weren't given that. I attended two of the four town hall meetings and read every paper. No specifics were ever given. Combine that with the shady raises given without the board's consent and we couldn't trust what was going on"
I agree.
I, in fact I'm sure most residents appreciate employees of Crestwood. From the first responders to staffers in city hall, all of them make Crestwood great. But Prop 1 was brought up suddenly after the April election. We were told it would get us through the redevelopment of Crestwood Plaza - whatever that means. I attended 3 of the meetings. Frequent mention was made of the poor condition of the tennis courts. I don't think I heard anything about employees' salaries-they might have been mentioned, but I did not hear it.
If Prop 1 passed, who knows how the extra money would have been spent.
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