Crestwood Prop. 1 failing 70 to 30% in the 9:00 PM returns!
AS OF 8:44 PM: the RESULTS ON Prop. 1 were as follows:
CRESTWOOD-PROPOSITION 1
**SIX YEAR GENERAL PROPERTY TAX-CITY SERVICES**
(VOTE FOR ) 1
(WITH 0 OF 8 PRECINCTS COUNTED)
YES . . . . . . . . . . . . 47 31.33
NO. . . . . . . . . . . . . 103 68.67
Update at 9;00 PM with most of the vote counted!:
CRESTWOOD-PROPOSITION 1
**SIX YEAR GENERAL PROPERTY TAX-CITY SERVICES**
(VOTE FOR ) 1
(WITH 7 OF 8 PRECINCTS COUNTED 87.50%)
YES . . . . . . . . . . . . 690 29.64
NO. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,638 70.36
I would say that if (or when) this holds up, Messrs. Miguel, and Nieder will have a "mandate" to request that the Board and the Mayor listen to their ideas and plans! I will up-date this at the 9:00 PM count (done!)
Please join me in congratulating both side on a well run and hard fought campaign!
Tom Ford
NO. 531
CRESTWOOD-PROPOSITION 1
**SIX YEAR GENERAL PROPERTY TAX-CITY SERVICES**
(VOTE FOR ) 1
(WITH 0 OF 8 PRECINCTS COUNTED)
YES . . . . . . . . . . . . 47 31.33
NO. . . . . . . . . . . . . 103 68.67
Update at 9;00 PM with most of the vote counted!:
CRESTWOOD-PROPOSITION 1
**SIX YEAR GENERAL PROPERTY TAX-CITY SERVICES**
(VOTE FOR ) 1
(WITH 7 OF 8 PRECINCTS COUNTED 87.50%)
YES . . . . . . . . . . . . 690 29.64
NO. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,638 70.36
I would say that if (or when) this holds up, Messrs. Miguel, and Nieder will have a "mandate" to request that the Board and the Mayor listen to their ideas and plans! I will up-date this at the 9:00 PM count (done!)
Please join me in congratulating both side on a well run and hard fought campaign!
Tom Ford
NO. 531
posted by Crestwood Independent at 20:37
51 Comments:
CRESTWOOD-PROPOSITION 1
**SIX YEAR GENERAL PROPERTY TAX-CITY SERVICES**
(VOTE FOR ) 1
(WITH 8 OF 8 PRECINCTS COUNTED)
YES . . . . . . . . . . . . 854 28.34
NO. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,159 71.66
The Call just "called" it.
At their web site, the headline reads:
BREAKING NEWS (as of 9:21 p.m. on Tuesday, Aug. 5)
Crestwood voters reject tax-rate increase Prop 1
May I speak for 71 percent of Crestwood when I say this - WHEW!
You know that message people on this blog wanted to send city hall? They just got it.
Now we'll see if they'll step up to the plate with alternatives or revert to their usual routine of playing the blame game.
9:37PM blogger: I doubt the can do that any more! From now on let's get the act together and move forward in a positive fashion!
The funds are there, the people to get it done are in place, and there is no reason to drag the feet any longer, so what say you "leadership?" let's get to work!
Tom Ford
Yes, no more politics, the funds are there, if not the assets we can sell are there, the cuts are there, we can outsource our Parks dept if we need to, we already outsource the Life Guards and the food stand at Whitecliff. Just a few ideas to start the putting together of a plan for our future!
11:06,
Ever thought of running for alderman? That's more realistic than I've heard almost anyone on the board in a long time.
Yes- lets outsource even more! Heck, let's get rid of the alderman and mayor, too. We can pay Sunset Hills or Kirkwood mayor/alderman to run our city on a part time basis. That will really save some money so "we" don't have to pay one more dime! We can go with St. Louis County Police "Services" (read 2 officers on at a time) and then give our Fire service to Mehlville or Affton while we're at it. Heck, it'll be cheaper (at first, at least!) than Crestwood's Fire services. In fact, why don't we just rename the city, "Crest-Kirk-Webster-Hills", so we can use their tax base to pay for our needs! I mean, why on earth should WE pay close to what our surrounding communities pay in taxes? This is, by God, Crestwood!....we have this wonderfull mall to pay for it all, don't we?! This is Crestwood, this IS 1970, isn't it?!?!? I know- Let's blame the current administration for the decline of the mall, too! That'll fix everything! Our average citizens' age, and fixed income mentality will be the downfall of this community.
As Charlie Brown so eloquently put it- "Good grief!"
Yes- let's work now in a forward fashion.....but by all means- lets own up to the fact that the days of riding on the mall's coat-tails are OVER. If we want a community for a lifetime, we will eventually have to step up and fund it.
Say's you.
I'll bet the County Police would be thrilled to get our new luxury autos Crown Victorias to drive. It's always been considered a luxury car by those with higher incomes, like Crestwood I guess. The people who are so into show and tell by buying more than they can afford always do so with 'other peoples money', like the taxpayers money. The 70% who voted no to more money to waste surely tell them something? Probably not!
7:33 Says me, too!!! 6:51 Aug. 3has hit it right on and I agree with every word he/she says. We all will pay for this big mistake and we won't be able to take it to the bank because Crestwood won't have any money to bank.
When your property values go down big time and we can't get our streets, sidewalks, parks and community center maintained, the naysayers will all be blaming everybody but themelves for it.
Don't even begin to smart back at me, cause I could care less what happens in Crestwood anymore. All I am doing is stating the facts as I see them down the road. My opinion and my comment just as important as yours.
You get what you pay for and there is so such thing as a free ride in Crestwood anymore because our sales tax is in the toilet.
So gather rosebuds while you may.
Dear 9:45. You knowledge and understanding of a Ford Crown Victoria for law enforcement is quite deficient. Try to comment on only those things you about.
I was just thinking we will see this issue in Nov again, this time with a threat. Can't wait to see what service we will loose.
Crestwood's got money in the bank. Some long term debt will come to an end. If the boa and mayor do not spend, it will be OK. But if you want to cry gloom and doom, that's your choice.
Dear 11:55
Roy will tell you that he will have to contract fire services with a fire protection district. He will tell you how much it will cost each homeowner on their taxes, and that amount will seem terrible compared to the minor little tax Crestwood wants to levy. Everyone will run scared, and Roy will get his tax increase.
I won't be changing my vote in November, and I would rather pay my money to a professionally run fire protection district than to that crew up at city hall that has no direction and indiscriminately hands out pay raises, promotes friends of the mayor who aren't qualified for the job, and wastes money on toys for the police department.
The right message was sent last night - shape up or step aside. That is what city hall needs to hear and we need to reinforce it if it gets thrown up again in November.
NO NEW TAXES. McCain/Obama will tax us enough as it is.
Yeah sure. First of all the Fire Department hasn't handed out any raises, idiot. Secondly, you and others like you, generalize everyone in the fire department depicting them as not trained properly.
Let me tell you something whoever you are, you should be as well trained as the fire chief and captains in our fire service. They have more savy in their little finger than you have sense.
AND FURTHER Let's hope between now and the time we get a fire protection district, you don't need a paramedic to save your sorry behind because if I were the one who had to save you from death, AFTER YOUR INGORANT COMMENT, I would refuse to come to your home and perform CPR since you are so doggone smart! These people you think so little of put their lives on the line for you and are trained by professionals.
Of course, being the trained individuals that they are,those persons in our fire department who have been trained by profesionals WILL climb on the fire truck come hell or high water and do what they have done for years - their job!!!!Too bad you don't know how lucky you are you poor sap.
People like you, would punish everyone in the Fire Department who have done a great job for Crestwood, by bunching them all into your so-called theory.
Plus you might be in for a shock when the response time for the fire protection district ends up being a lot longer than the response time of our Crestwood firefighters.
Thanks Char for your input, next time try to obey the State Law about political organizations.
Me, I cant wait to see who the Mayor blames for results of this election.
Anyone taking bets who get the blame?
Cause he will not admit that the increase was a bad idea, not supported by facts or uses for the increase, just we need more of your money.
Obviously there are 2 distinct sides to the tax issue. But the pro side has already started slinging insults, just as did Steve Knarr in his letter to the TIMES. The previous blogger whether it be Miz Braun or the former Alderman TT, or whoever, how very childish to expend all your angst at those who may not really be against a tax increase, just a smaller amount and a less time plus, a little more effort toward cutting expenses. You see... if we all have to stretch our money to the nth degree, we fully expect the city hallers to do likewise. Apparently, there is still some notion up there that they have done all they can do. Not so, keep trying. And be sure and make sure it is visable. AND, by the way, we can appreciate and care about our city without all the mud slinging, scare tactics, threats, and sourpusses. We pretty much know who this group consists of, so now they have a bigger job, it is time they put their heads together along with the rest of us and figure out new and innovative ways to save city money. Rather than wasting everyones time lamenting their woes and convincing themselves that doomosday is near. Get over yourselves, people, the message has been sent. Get real! We will do what has to be done. Run a very tight ship. As for the fire dept. I think they are great. It's the police dept. that seems a little heavy.
11:55 You obviously have no Idea what a Threat is. After all, you voted for MSD Prop Y and they stated in the paper that "vote yes and your rates will only go up $2.99 per billing cycle. Vote no and you will pay $11.05 more per cycle. NOW THAT IS A THREAT. And Mr Ford thinks we need "fiscal controls" in Crestwood? That my friends is a 43% increase over what you are paying now. Mr. Ford didn't do anything for the citizens of Crestwood but he sure as heck hurt the city with all his negative talk. Next time you need the Fire dept or Police do us a favor and call MSD. What a hypocrite.
2:08
I don't think you will see a tax increase put to the voters of Crestwood for at least 3-4 years and then only when they realize that the Crestwood Court isn't going to be developed.
6:53 PM blogger: You lost, you tried, and I am glad you did, but you lost by 72%!
I can remember when several of you said this blog is never read by anyone! If that's the case, your way off base with your comment's, aren't you?
Tom Ford
Hanging hope on the Plaza = well hope it isn't like Ballpark Village. All developers want is TIF's. TIF's for billionairs, just what our city and St. Louis city needs, to give handouts to the rich. Anyone notice how what they actually plan to do and what they say they are going to do are two different things. We are surrounded by all the savvy retailers. Who is left? We are surrounded by theaters. Why are we sharing our pittance from the plaza as a pool city? We best learn to live withinour means and put minimum hope into more retail.
Our BOA has for a time had to deal with lack of financial expertise and administrative talent at city hall. They have to have facts to make decisions. They have had to deal with lots of terrible fiascos from the past plus sinking revenues. However, now they must hunker down and get the absolutes necessary to make the decisions that must be made. They will need much better legal help and they need a new attorney.They will have to stop big buck salaries and perks for now, possibly forever. Thank heavens there are 2 aldermen up there who have a grip on things. But sometimes it appears it is like pulling teeth to get the info they need.
Well Said 6:44!!
I just found this blog yesterday Tom. Its great. Keep it up.
11:19 PM, August 06, 2008
Why are we sharing our pittance from the plaza as a pool city?
Do you have any idea that you haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about.....
Crestwood is a Point of Sale City that sends money to Pool Cities like Webster Groves, U City etc. As a Pool City, we would get far less sales tax as we do now.
Mr. Ford, I hope you feel real good right now. Congrats to a job well done.
Ohh I heard your son will be the first to go, better get that extra room ready I guess.
How low are the proponents of Proposition 1 willing to go? I guess fairly low...
"Mr. Ford, I hope you feel real good right now. Congrats to a job well done.
OH I heard your son will be the first to go, better get that extra room ready I guess."
3:55 PM, August 07, 2008
Yes I do feel very good about the outcome my friend OH, and by the way My Son will remain in his job(retaliation would be a very costly mistake,) as will all the other employees of Crestwood!
Why? because this was a "back stop" measure (you know CYA) tax increase only! It was, and is not needed at this time, and you should know that!
Don't believe me? Ask the Mayor, or wait for next week's call, I think you will be very surprised at the results!
4:42 PM blogger: Pay no attention to them for they know not what they do (a 28% MINORITY,) but thanks for your support!
Tom Ford
Not living or from Fenton; but have their property values declined, and have they lost businesses, and has the crime rate risen since they contracted police services with the county?
No
Having lived in, and knowing many people from Fenton, I can honestly tell you that all- not some, or most, but all those I have talked to about County Police services....they ALL want their municipal Police services back. Last I heard, they were looking into the feasibility of it. The problem a city has when the contract out with County PD, is that the city will sell off all of the Police equipment and get a low-buck bid from County. After the initial contract runs out, County "magically" rebids at a MUCH higher rate than initially given. They attribute it to call volume and citizen to Officer ratios. Funny thing is that most cities save $$$ for about 3 years, then get hit with the higher bid AFTER they have sold off their Police cars and equipment. Our Crestwood Officers are a great group of people. I think they are professional and respectful of the needs of our community. I would hate to see the city abandon its Police force only to save a buck for a couple of years...just my thoughts.
8:29 AM blogger: Thank you! I have been saying that over the last few months.
County is famous for that. The City will get a one year contract, and when the equipment is GONE, the following year the cost will magically sky rocket!
As you said, if you don't believe that, just asked ANY City that has contracted with them!
The other stunning reason not to switch is the fact that we have officers who know and care about Crestwood. County officers coulden't care less about the area, and they show it, believe me!
Tom Ford
8:29 Thank you so much. I am glad that someone has gone through the experience of going to the County. Now that said, I feel the same way about the Mehlville Fire Protection District.
We have a great police and fire department. You gave us first hand experience with going to the County. I hope all those who don't care if we loose those departments, listen carefully.
All this nonsense about "who cares" if we loose our public safety departments. when all they really cared about was perhaps getting another tax increase. Maybe now the insults and accusations can go away. They got what they wanted. Let's see what happens by 2010.
Great comment. I am glad you stated it.
I was against the tax increase because I think we have enough money to function well. But I agree with the above bloggers, I definitely want to keep Crestwood's police and fire departments. St. Louis County has a good police department, but Tom is right, after the initial bid, it can get much higher.
I want to know why Mr. Ford made a post about the Kirkwood police officers who were shot last year but why there was nothing about the Maplewood firefighter who was murdered. I know the answer allready do you.
10:15-I bet you're really proud of yourself, aren't ya?
10:15 beyond sick, depraved would better describe you.
Do other cities have a whole new fleet of police cars, and what is the rule of thumb one needs for this many? Are we proportioned for 4 sq miles?? Perhaps people here think we are a tad overdone and think when the cupboard is bare, it is time to realign things. Aldermen and Mayors need to fact reality ASAP. This is the new world order. Excess is out.
3:32 PM blogger: The short answer is yes, we do need 10 police cars!
Now here is why. A police department is like Laclede Gas, or Ameren UE. They do not have their trucks on the street all the time just driving around, but when there is a major disaster, they are there.
The police department is the same type of animal, they respond when you need them, they only use the resources needed at the time. In case of an all out emergency, we will need ALL 10 of those cars, and right now!
Drive by any municipality in St. Louis County and you will see the same thing (it's called disaster preparedness,) and I assure you it's needed!
Now, you may also notice that the same vehicle is not used on each shift. This gives "down time" to the cars, and prolongs the life of same.
I hope this gives you some insight as to why all the cars are there.
Tom Ford
But you will also notice that a fire truck's use is very limited when compared to a police car's usage.
Of course they cost a lot more and are built to last a lot longer. The fact that a fire truck is used does not reflect on its' ability to be of good service. It's called a diesel engine and they are monitored not by the miles on it or the year if was built, but the hours it has been running.
If we have 18 police cars, that's almost 6 for every square mile of Crestwood.
How many would we need if the didnt patrol and sat in the parking lot of City Hall untill called on?
Wow. People sure get miffed over new cars!
All PD's operate 24 hours a day. The average American gets a new car every three years, and thats with very limited use compared toa cop car or fire truck.
As for these quotes of cars per square mile....has nobody considered the number of people they serve? Last I checked, Crestwood had something like 12,000 citizens. What about during the day when business is booming, and traffic is moving? I bet the number of people in this town could easily be tripled! So, what's that then....one cop car for every 7,000 people?
I know- let's have these guys go down to one or two officers on at a time, and make them respond to our needs on skateboards.....that'll save a buck! Wow.
Ok then, why only 18 cars? Why not 28? Or 38? Heck, why not a helicopter and a few bikes too?
10:00 Go ahead and be ridiculous. Better yet, why not state your comment at a board meeting where people can see who you are and you can't hide yourself like you do on the blog.
In your scheme of things, everybody working for Crestwood and all things purchased must cease. Why don't everybody employees and public officials just dry up and blow away? How's that!
"Why don't everybody employees and public officials just dry up and blow away? How's that!"
Um ok, if you insist!
No but seriously, we should buy more cars - maybe 100 or so. But then again, maybe not unless we can find a place to park them - don't want to take away spaces from that wonderful swim club!
Told Yeah. You just agreed that you want them all to dry up and blow away.
Maybe then you can be mayor and fix it all up, since you are so doggone smart. Wow! Bet you can make a mountain out of a mole hill too! You seem to be real good at that.
Don't know if I can make a mountain out of a molehill, but I can make a rhubarb pie out of rhubarbs!
6:17 Good then, I am glad you can make a pie. How are you at eating crow?
I've eaten crow before. I voted for Roy.
8:33 You are too cute! I don't know who you are but if I were to be honest, I have to say I have enjoyed our little conversations. I enjoyed your comebacks and have sort of enjoyed our little bickerings.
Although we may be poles apart about police cars and a few other things, for some reason, you have made me smile where others whom I have disagreed with me, have just made me angry, plain and simple.
So I just wanted to tell you that whoever you are, I have enjoyed our little back and forth conversations. Your comments back to me are not mean or harsh and I still get your point.
So let's call it a draw and just "say good night Gracey". It started out upsetting, but ended up being fun. Thanks.
Well thank you! If I made you smile, then I did something right for once. Have a great day!
Hey Tom, anything new in the Crestwood news worth writing about?
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