Prop 1 and the City pay raises, City staff, and City as a whole.
Ladies and gentlemen, I thought it was time to try and clarify what the prop 1 issue was all about (as I understand it.)
First, the Police promotions, and subsequent raises were NOT tied to prop 1 in any way, shape, form or fashion.
Second, prop 1 was a tax increase for 6 years, and had nothing to do with any other thing at City hall other than increased revenue had it passed.
Third, The decisions to promote, hire, increase, could have had nothing to do with prop 1, as they were done prior to the date of election, and no one could have foreseen the outcome when they were done.
We have two completely separate and distinct issues here, so when someone tells you it was all intertwined, it wasn't! The election is over, the voters have spoken, and we do need to move forward from the here and now, and as a unified City if we expect positive results in the future.
I believe both sides of the prop 1 issue really believed they were right, and that dosen't make them bad, it in fact makes them Americans! (we love to disagree.)
The Mayor has stated that we will not loose employees, City services will remain the same, and things will be the same as they were prior to August 5, 2008, so let's move toward a bigger and better Crestwood!
Tom Ford
NO. 533
First, the Police promotions, and subsequent raises were NOT tied to prop 1 in any way, shape, form or fashion.
Second, prop 1 was a tax increase for 6 years, and had nothing to do with any other thing at City hall other than increased revenue had it passed.
Third, The decisions to promote, hire, increase, could have had nothing to do with prop 1, as they were done prior to the date of election, and no one could have foreseen the outcome when they were done.
We have two completely separate and distinct issues here, so when someone tells you it was all intertwined, it wasn't! The election is over, the voters have spoken, and we do need to move forward from the here and now, and as a unified City if we expect positive results in the future.
I believe both sides of the prop 1 issue really believed they were right, and that dosen't make them bad, it in fact makes them Americans! (we love to disagree.)
The Mayor has stated that we will not loose employees, City services will remain the same, and things will be the same as they were prior to August 5, 2008, so let's move toward a bigger and better Crestwood!
Tom Ford
NO. 533
posted by Crestwood Independent at 08:32
82 Comments:
Tom,
Right now I do not trust the actions, judgment or words of the current administration on anything they say, do or think.
Sorry, I wish that were not the case, but the last 10 months have really opened my eyes to how poor a group of leaders we have at city hall.
Thanks for the information Tom; for once, it was explained to my satisfaction and I am glad you did this. It may not help some people, but it has helped me.
Thanks.
Sandy Grave
Just for clarification- most of the "raises" that many think were "arbitrarily" handed out at the Police Department were not raises at all. Most of them were pay discrepancies that the Police Chief fixed. And from what was posted in the paper, most were nominal sums at best.
The Police Chief called them corrections. Other times they have been called raises. No matter what they were called, they were increases in salary, done at mid-year. From what I have heard, they were implemented before board approval.
Anyone know when we can expect a resignation from the city attorney? The people's eyes are open and watching.
3:38 PM blogger: I would say when the proverbial H#ll freezes over!
We have all called for it, he knows it, he feels "put upon" by the Call, and the Citizens, and he has said so!
I would love to see an Alderman or two find the chutzpah to tell him at a board meeting that the Citizens no longer have any confidence in him, and see where it goes from there!
That said, we have certain "sacred cows" in Crestwood (the animal control officer is one,) and I believe he enjoys the same status for what ever reason.
Call your Alderman! Tell him how you feel, all I can do from the cheap seats is "say it like I see it!"
Tom Ford
If I read correctly, they weren't ALL corrections. Some were raises for the civilians in the police department. The Chief's secretary got a raise, who was apparently hired on when everyones pay was frozen.
I guess she got her raise. I wonder if anyone else in the other departments got any raises, who have been there much longer and done without.
If not, I wonder how they feel about it, now that it is out in the open.
I don't know exactly about how the raises are executed now but it used to be like this:
If you were recently hired, or fairly a new employee, you were put on a probationary period of six months. If you did well, you were then given your first raise and placed in a pay range which included steps or tiers. If you did not do well, your probationary period could be extended or you could be let go.
That pay range has tiers that go from one year apart to gradually several years apart.
This secretary may have only been in her first step or tier, which was a yearly step because she was fairly new. Her raise would have been included in the annual year's budget and based on her anniversary date of employment. Therefore, if she was suppose to get a raise in June, for instance, they would have to give her that raise and not disallow it or hold it up until after the vote on the tax increase. It would be a budgeted item and she would have been entitled to it in June. To ask her to wait for her raise based on contraversey would not have been fair would it?
Especially now since the tax increase failed, since those opposing the increase would have been screaming that she got her raise when we didn't have any money. It was a budgeted item approved previously by the Ways and Means Committee and the Board.
However, the longer a person works in the City of Crestwood, there raises become farther and farther apart; unless they are up for promotions. Then they are placed in a new pay range. If you are not promoted and stay in the same classification, you would probably only get cost of living raises given for everyone.
Since we are now in difficult times in Crestwood, I am sure those across the board raises have not been executed for several years.
This is what I know about the way raises are given. And that is how they were done. I am sure if you request more information on these raises and others, the city would be more than happy to give them to you. There is suppose to be a pay and classification plan available. I hope and trust this will assist you a little.
Thank you for your consideration.
I was told by two board members that ALL city employees were given a 2% pay raise this year. On top of that, the raises, or corrections as the Chief calls them, were given mid-year. From what I have heard, they were implemented before board approval.
Raises or salary corrections are common, but most if not all are figured into yearly budgets. Then, those yearly budgets are approved by the BOA. From what I understand, the police raises were implemented and then BOA gave approval.
That's my understanding of this issue. Am I wrong? Am I right?Anyone know anything different?
As I understand it, that was the old pay plan. They tell me that hasn't been used for the last 5 to 6 years.
The new pay plan was a merit system that put employees in line with other cities the same size but didn't last long because that was when they found out that the City had no monies to fund the plan because of the new audit.No more increases were given out after the initial one.
When Frank Meyers came, he did away with the pay plan and ALL salaries were frozen. No raises were handed out, only a 1% and some change 1 year and a 2% the last year he was there. The raises were ALl "budget driven" and the employees had/and still do not have a pay plan.
No one has got any raises except what was listed in the paper for the Police Dept. and the above % the BOA approved the last 2 years.
Apparently, with regards to the Police Dept., the starting salary is very attractive and they have no problem hiring new officers. The problem is, that the Officers who have been there for 8 yrs. or longer, receive very little compensation and are way below pay compared to other cities. The Crestwood salary is high to attract new officers but the cap is very low to retain them.
That is why four officers left this year to join higher paying departments. One of those officers was a Sergeant, who started out again as a patrolman, but will make more monies after 2 years at his new dept. than he was making in Crestwood as a supervisor.
They also had a command officer who left for a higher paying job in the private sector.
This trait will continue and will get worse but the City will have no problem hiring new ones to replace the older senior officers, which will reduce the cost to the city.
Right now, apparently this is not a concern and the emphasis is only on "monies/salaries".
I would hope, when all these problems have "settled down" and no increases handed out for several more years, that this problem will be a concern to the BOA, Administration and the citizens.
If this trend continues, in 5 years most of the patrolman in Crestwood will have under 7 years of law enforcement and the only senior ones will the the supervisors, if they stay.
11:29 What happened to the "core value" thingy that use to be used?
Board of aldermen members still had to approve raises whether they were called merit increases or raises. They are budgeted items. Every department is responsible for their budget. If something comes up that needs to be looked into regarding unappropriated raises or anything else, the board approves or rejects them as they were not included in the budget.
The police sgt. and others who left Crestwood, may get better salaries now which is great, but down the line, will they continue making big or small raises every year? Those raises will level out as seniority builds up. No city gives raises every year or two and continues to do it yearly for the next 10 or 20 years.
There is a point where they stop. If you know of such a place, I am sure every police officer would like to know where.
Thanks for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
It should also be known that when "raise" or "Correction" was made, at the same time insurance costs increased for officers with families. So that "raise in pay" wasn't even seen.
No, the officers will not get raises every year, no matter what city they work for but....they will have more of a chance to get COLA's every year to keep them abreast with other cities and like pay grades.
Take a look at salaries in comparable cities and you will see what I mean. Not just for Police and Fire but all positions.
Every year insurance goes up and the City cannot pay for all the cost so, it is passed along to the employees.
When you get no raises for 3 years and then the last 2 years, which was 2% for any employee under 45,000 (or 1% plus some monies) and the last year a straight 2%, and the extra insurance cost is passed to the employee, they get little/nothing.
The pay grades in other departments are now much higher since the above freezes and they will get higher each year that Crestwood employees receive little or no raises, COLAS etc. The disparity will get greater as time goes on.
The officers that left realize this and made a choice to leave. Not because they didn't want to work for the City, but had responsibilities to their familes. After all, enjoying where you work, doesn't fill up the gas tank nor pay the mortage.
The bottom line is this:
Those officers who left and ALL employees who are now working for the City, realize with the mall 6 to 8 years away, no monies in the budget, coupled with the "major" defeat in the last tax prop, no projected salary increases, no decent COLAS on the horizon, the future here is bleak for them and their families.
The younger ones, who were hired at Crestwood's "attractive" starting salary, will go to work for another city that has a better financial base, better future and pays more.
For the older officers/employees, they will have to either change occupations, start all over again, or "stick it out".
These are the facts, like them or not, that's the way it is.
You can make all the comments you want-right/wrong/pro/con/good/bad etc. but..... this is the way it is now, and will be for probably the next 6 to 8 years.
The City will loose a lot of talented people but in the long run, it doesn't make any difference because services will still be there, the taxes will be one of the lowest in the county, the employyes who left will be happy, the ones that stayed have retired or are closer to retirement.
Everyone wins!
Well, OK, if Crestwood officers are so unhappy, perhaps we should look at a long-term contract with St. Louis County?
It's a tough economy out there folks. Crestwood employees are not the only ones worried. Just think, you could be working for A/B or Chrysler.
The last tax increase ballot was not because City employees needed more money. If that were the case the Mayor would have said so when he came out in support of the tax increase at his town hall meeting.
Since the tax increase was not for salaries, any employee who feels they are under paid should leave now, because the current group of elected officials of Crestwood do not think they need a pay increase or they would have said so in their support of the tax increase.
You have your wish, the employees are leaving. As I said, everyone wins. Also, I would think any city employee would like to have had the salary/retirement benefits as Ford or AB employees or the "buy out" or unemployment compensation and retraining they might receive.
Concerning St. Louis County, they have pay issues also. Their new pay plan was passed by all the committies and the county council. When it got to the County Supervisor, he vetoed it. Needless to say, they are not pleased.
They are now in the process of deciding what their next line of recourse will be.
St. Louis County is a viable alternative and I suggest the City look into contracting services. From experience, they will "low ball" you at first then raise the rates after the initial contract. If your not interested in response time, vacation checks and really personal service, i.e. I have seen officers shoveling snow for senior citizens, this is the contract for you.
Just so you know, the City will have to pay for the police contract out of city budget monies. If you contract Fire services, the resident pays for this out of their tax monies.
I suggest the City look into contracting both services and see what the actual cost would be to us.
Also, the Mayor is not going to tell the residents in Public that the employees need more monies. 1-that was not the main issue of the prop.-it was operating monies for the city. 2-If he did say they needed more monies, it would not even have a chance of passing.
Also, just so you know, most employees read this blog but do not comment or write anything. It has "opened their eyes" to how the residents think-feel-talk about them.
Yes, don't worry, these money grabbing employees are leaving!
I wish that people would just leave the employees out of this tax increase issue.
I, for one, appreciate their good work and wish they could all get more money.
4:31 PM
More cheese with your whine?
I'm glad the city employees are reading this blog, maybe it will open their eyes to the fact that the Citizens of Crestwood do not trust this administration with another penny of their money.
If we could just recall the mayor, fire the city attorney and police chief, all would be fine!
7:02 Leave the worker bees out of this hostility. They needed a job and the city provided one for them. You elect city officials, you do not elect city employees so why put them under the same umbrella? That is so unfair of you. You pass judgement on people who are just trying to survive in this dog eat dog world.
If you had people who were your bosses and you did not trust them, should people not trust you because you happen to work for him. Should people take out their anger on the worker or the boss? Should the common worker not feel a little anger because of people like you? I rest my case.
9:12. Your comment make no sense at all.
I highly respect our city employees and want them to be justly compensated.
However, I and many others don't trust some of our elected leaders or some of our administration. Until Crestwood can restore that trust, do things out in the open instead of going behind closed doors into closed session, develop a comprehensive plan for the future that projects at least three years out, and somehow restrain from giving out pay increases until after the board approves them, I and many others will continue to vote NO on any tax increase. Crestwood's credibility is in the toilet because of secrecy and a lack of any real plan for the future. And our elected leaders should remember that just because an issue CAN be discussed in closed session doesn't necessarily mean that it SHOULD. If Crestwood wants to restore trust, they have to keep the citizens and the media in the loop instead of hiding things.
1. "Also, the Mayor is not going to tell the residents in Public that the employees need more monies. 1-that was not the main issue of the prop.-it was operating monies for the city. 2-If he did say they needed more monies, it would not even have a chance of passing."
Not quite. Actually, there were no specific plans how the money would be spent. The money could have been spent however the boa and/or administration saw fit. That was one of the problems with Prop 1- there were no specific plans how the additional revenue would be spent.
2. "Leave the worker bees out of this hostility. They needed a job and the city provided one for them. You elect city officials, you do not elect city..."
I did and I would. But when I told others on this blog I was against Proposition 1, I heard how mean I was and how inconsiderate I was to those who worked for Crestwood. We are either inundated with threats of loss of services or how we are so mean to the employees of Crestwood.
11:16 OK I can see how you feel but the common employee who has nothing to do with raises, or promotions and doesn't make the laws shouldn't be in that loop. That's all I was saying.
If there was something going on that was not within the code or charter, it needs to come out and be handled. It should not keep festering and creating ill will. It needs to be settled.
If that is the case, then I am waiting for it to be known.
11:25 Well, you can't believe everyone on this blog and sometimes we pick up the wrong signals from the wrong people.
There are people who do nothing on this blog and in their daily lives except strive to create chaos whichever way they can. Why? Because first and foremost, it will create hostility toward the mayor who has not been their favorite person before, during and after his election. When they cannot get enough revenge going, they throw everyone in the pot and cause disturbance after disturbance.
I am not the greatest fan of the mayor's by any means and he has made some bad judgement calls, but you have to remember some people on this blog don't care how or what they use as battering rams.
Just don't let anyone tell you that city employees should be trampled to death for all the wrong reasons.
If they quit to find a better job, they get ridiculed but why should they stay to be downsized later.
If they stay, people such as yourself make them sound like traitors. They in turn feel vicitmized for no reason. I am sure you would feel the same way.
That's like getting angry at your wife, and hitting your children for it. They are there doing nothing to deserve it.
"I highly respect our city employees and want them to be justly compensated.
However, I and many others don't trust some of our elected leaders or some of our administration. Until Crestwood can restore that trust, do things out in the open instead of going behind closed doors into closed session, develop a comprehensive plan for the future that projects at least three years out, and somehow restrain from giving out pay increases until after the board approves them, I and many others will continue to vote NO on any tax increase. Crestwood's credibility is in the toilet because of secrecy and a lack of any real plan for the future. And our elected leaders should remember that just because an issue CAN be discussed in closed session doesn't necessarily mean that it SHOULD. If Crestwood wants to restore trust, they have to keep the citizens and the media in the loop instead of hiding things.
11:16 AM, August 12, 2008"
That's exactly where I am coming from too. Thanks for the post. I liked it so much I re-posted it!
4:24 Can someone explain to me what it means that if something CAN be discussed in closed session doesn't mean IT SHOULD.
If it can be done, does that mean the law has not been broken? If it should not have been done in closed session, what would be the reasons and where would you draw the line if things were done according to the law?
As far as I am concerned, I need a clarification on that because to me it is confusing.
Thanks.
5:14 PM blogger: "4:24 Can someone explain to me what it means that if something CAN be discussed in closed session doesn't mean IT SHOULD."
I think we have a matter of semantics here. I believe the poster is trying to say that just because it is LEGAL to go into closed session, dosen't mean it's a good idea to do so.
Example: If it is legal to make a decision on "fund transfers" in closed session, so be it. However would it not be better to do so in "open" session so ALL the Citizens are privy to the decisions being made?
We have experienced more "closed sessions" in the past three years than I remember in the past 10 years. Is that right? I don't know, but this is what leads to distrust, that much I do know.
Tom Ford
11:16 here.
Tom's analysis is exactly correct. That's exactly what I meant. In my opinion, better for the people to know than not know. And if the city is really serious about wanting to be more transparent now, they'll err on the side of openness from here on out - even if such a matter is legal to be discussed in closed session. Time to change your ways, Crestwood gov't.
The only time for closed session would be legal matter IE law suit, or the sale or purchase of property that if the buyer or seller found out the amounts being discussed would ruin the deal for the City. Or the reasons for the firing of a dept head by the C/A so that by doing so the City is not held at fault if the dept head can no longer get a job based on what was said in a public meeting. Of course any thing like discussion of employees health conditions in public would be against the law, but could be legal if in closed session if it effected the City.
To be honest,I cant think, of any other demanding reasons for a closed session.
Trueblood may be the only alderman in the history of the city to vote on to go to closed session because he said the reason for being closed did not meet the states guidelines.
So aldermen can vote no if they want to.
Well folks, after the Call comes out tomorrow there will be no "common ground," as far as your blog master is concerned!
I think you will either "love me, or hate me!" Sorry, but I felt then, and I feel very strongly now that this needed to be done to insure that both sides of any issue are given the opportunity to be heard.
Tom Ford
The mayor and the board had chances to get to the bottom of the police raises and the use of city resources for a political action committee. Guts were lacking to say the least and they chose not to. I'm ashamed of our board and our city. These are dark days in our city.
Want to advertise your business?
See if Crestwood will let you use reverse-911!!!
Want to get your message out? Need an advertising or marketing vehicle?
Call up Crestwood and see if they'll let you use Crestwood Connections!!!
RECALL THE BOA AND THE MAYOR
FIRE THE POLICE CHIEF
FIRE THE CITY ATTORNEY
RETURN CRESTWOOD TO A CITY RUN BY LAWS.
The issue is not whether or not closed sessions are appropriate or legal, the problem is that a handful of people are upset because they are not allowed in the room to hear what is going on. The solution to this problem is for them to run for office and then they will be able to participate in the closed sessions. Having said that ,let's start concerning ourselves with the real issues at hand. Money and recovery.
Wrong. Were you at the meeting last night? The board had a chance to clean up problems. Most on the board were cowardice and refused.
Regardless of how much money Crestwood gets or doesn't get, there will be no recovery with this group. Some on the board only want to raise taxes. They know of no other solution and no of nothing else to do. Don't worry, others will run for office.
All these closed sessions aren't the only problem up there.
8:15
Hey, don't like what people are saying on this blog?
Try using reverse 911! See if the mayor will let you use it. Go ahead!
8:15 said "The issue is not whether or not closed sessions are appropriate or legal, the problem is that a handful of people are upset because they are not allowed in the room to hear what is going on."
What an example of total elitism and ignorance of the law. This is so typical of what we now expect from our city leadership. The problem is the "little" people want to here what is going on. If what is going on behind closed doors is so innocent, then why can't it be said in public? My father always told me that "character is what you are in the dark". Just replace word 'dark' with 'closed session' and you will get the point.
8:52 Exactly! Excellent post.
11:22. Do not expect the mayor to get to the bottom of anything. He was well aware of the raises and how they were to be given. Do you think for one minute that his boy the chief would do anything without his permission???!
Tax! Tax! Tax!
But get to the root of problems? Oh know, we can't do that!!!
From the SunCrest Call
www.callnewspapers.com
Impact News
Crestwood citizens question intent of city-advertised meetings on tax increase
'Legal staff' OK'd information in newsletter, mayor says BURKE WASSON
Staff Reporter
"We believe strongly enough in the issue to do it ourselves to pay the rent, to pay the materials, et cetera. So you will hear a bias and you understand that there's a bias. I'm someone who's standing in front of you who isn't bias free. But the point is we want you to be better informed to enable whatever your vote is."
— Terry Freeman, Crestwood Residents for Prop 1 member
August 06, 2008 - Some Crestwood residents have questioned the intent of a series of city-advertised town-hall meetings on a proposed six-year, 35-cent tax-rate increase on the Aug. 5 ballot.
While the city's Crestwood Connections newsletter advertised the meetings as "Prop 1 information town hall meetings," the presentations at such meetings have been given by a campaign committee of Crestwood citizens in favor of the tax-rate increase.
The group Crestwood Residents for Prop 1 paid $160 to the city for the use of the Crestwood Government Center and the Community Center at Whitecliff Park as sites for the four town-hall meetings this month. Besides publishing the meetings in the newsletter, city officials also authorized the use of reverse 911 telephone calls to residents on July 12 to inform them of the meetings. While three meetings already have taken place, the last was set at 7 p.m. Wednesday, July 30, at the Community Center in Whitecliff Park.
City Administrator Jim Eckrich said it is common practice for the city to use its dispatching service for reverse 911 calls to advertise town-hall meetings.
"That doesn't strike me as a town-hall meeting. That's not the same thing. I question strongly the legality of having that published in the Crestwood Connections at my tax-dollar expense to have a pro anything or a negative anything published on what's supposed to be a neutral position in a government publication."
— Tim Trueblood, former Crestwood Ward 2 alderman
"Any time in the past the city's had a town-hall meeting, the reverse 911s have been sent out," he said. "They were sent out in this case. These meetings are ward town-hall meetings where the citizens for Prop 1 group is giving a presentation. That group is paying for the use of the room based upon the use of the city's equipment to try to avoid the appearance of the city supporting the tax. So the reverse 911 was sent out when these were advertised in the newsletter as town-hall meetings."
But some residents question the propriety of the city using public resources to promote meetings presented by a group with a bias in favor of the tax increase.
"That doesn't strike me as a town-hall meeting," former Ward 2 Alderman Tim Trueblood said during the July 22 town-hall meeting. "That's not the same thing. I question strongly the legality of having that published in the Crestwood Connections at my tax-dollar expense to have a pro anything or a negative anything published on what's supposed to be a neutral position in a government publication."
Mayor Roy Robinson told Trueblood that City Attorney Rob Golterman approved of the advertisement in the Crestwood Connections and said "everything is approved by the legal staff before it goes out."
Besides listing the dates and sites of each of the four town-hall meetings, the newsletter urged residents to "please attend the Town Hall meetings held in July so that you can obtain all the facts and have your questions answered. We need your help to bring our city back."
But Ward 3 Alderman Jerry Miguel pointed out to Crestwood Residents for Prop 1 member Terry Freeman, who conducted presentations at the town-hall meetings, that the group was presenting an incomplete picture of the city's finances.
The group's financial presentation on July 22 focused on one of the city's three funds. Freeman's presentation highlighted sections of the city's 2007 audit regarding the general fund, but offered no information from the audit on the capital-improvement fund or park and stormwater fund.
Executive Secretary Helen Ingold told those present July 22 that the information presented at each meeting was provided by Freeman and not city officials.
"This gentleman, Mr. Freeman, who I believe is a part of the group, not only contacted us, but provided every one of us and every one of the aldermen with the information he would be presenting this evening," Ingold said. "That was my understanding of the process."
Freeman emphasized at the July 22 meeting that while residents can vote how they wish, those present "will hear a bias" from his group.
"The point is to provide, in our view, a fact-based background that really better enables an informed voting decision," Freeman said. "... You're going to vote how you're going to vote. This is about giving you another set of facts that enables you to do that. The city can provide information with respect to what is on the ballot, but they really can't politick for it. The board put the vote to us as the people, but the employees can't politick for it on their time and whatnot. And we believe strongly enough in the issue to do it ourselves to pay the rent, to pay the materials, et cetera.
"So you will hear a bias and you understand that there's a bias. I'm someone who's standing in front of you who isn't bias free. But the point is we want you to be better informed to enable whatever your vote is."
Crestwood Residents For Prop 1 Chairwoman Char Braun said the meetings were scheduled to offer another avenue besides Board of Aldermen meetings for residents to learn more about the ballot proposal.
"It's not about right or wrong, win or lose," Braun said. "It's not about that. There are people here that don't come to board meetings. I see most of the people in this room that don't come. This might be the only way they get information. They can't go online maybe. Maybe they don't get the newsletters. I don't know. We're trying to get people information. They are deciding for themselves."
As for the issue of whether the city maintained an unbiased position by publishing the group-conducted meeting dates in the city newsletter and advertising them through reverse 911 telephone calls, Robinson contended that "it was neutral."
"Is this meeting neutral?" Trueblood asked.
"This meeting is neutral," Robinson said.
"Well, it's not a town-hall meeting," Trueblood said.
"Well, it is not a town-hall meeting, but we have nothing to do with it," Robinson said. "I'm sitting here because I'm a citizen of the community."
"What does that (newsletter) say?" Trueblood said. "It says town-hall meeting."
"Whatever it says, it was reviewed by legal and it's perfectly legal to put in that information," Robinson said. "We didn't say yea or nay or what we want."
"Is that legal?" Trueblood said. "Did our attorney approve of this?"
"You betcha," Robinson said. "Everything is approved by the legal staff before it goes out."
"Well, if somebody from let's say Mothers Against Drunk Driving wanted to have a meeting and asked if it would be published in the Crestwood Connections for the residents, would you do that?" Civil Service Board member Martha Duchild asked.
"Certainly we would," Robinson said.
"Then any other group that wants to advertise meetings in Crestwood could?" she asked.
"If it's informational about the meetings, you bet," Robinson said.
"Just buy the room and supply the materials," Freeman said."
"You betcha," Robinson said. "Everything is approved by the legal staff before it goes out."
Really Mr. Mayor? What is your story today?
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c100-199/1150000646.htm
"Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 115
Election Authorities and Conduct of Elections
Section 115.646
August 28, 2007
Public funds expenditure by political subdivision officer or employee, prohibited--personal appearances permitted.
115.646. No contribution or expenditure of public funds shall be made directly by any officer, employee or agent of any political subdivision to advocate, support, or oppose any ballot measure or candidate for public office. This section shall not be construed to prohibit any public official of a political subdivision from making public appearances or from issuing press releases concerning any such ballot measure."
I don't think the city's "Reverse 911" system should be used for anything other than emergency information. I don't appreicate receiving recorded messages from any organization, certainly not from a machine that my tax dollars were used to purchase.
The city should limit the use of this machine to sharing information about a serious crime in that specific neighborhood and providing street repair notifications to affected residents.
Thank you.
I know there's a lot of hubbub about who posted the newsletter and who wrote what. I don't think that's the issue. I think the the problem is not what was written in the newsletter about the so-called town hall meetings, but what they became.
I don't care about who was responsible for publishing the newsletter.
What I and others would like to know, however, is who let the Prop 1 group run the town hall meetings. Who thought it was OK for this group to run these meetings? Who authorized this group to host these meetings? Who took the check? Who thought this was OK?
Again, I don't care about who published the newsletter. The letter's actual words weren't controversial. What happened at the meetings, however, were the whole problem. So why isn't anyone asking that question of WHO authorized the group to host these meetings? We need to know.
The question was asked last night. The board, the mayor, the administration DID NOT answer.
Remember, the reverse-911 was used to direct residents to a meeting held by a private political action committee.
So, if you have a business, or wish to promote something, why don't you try using the city's reverse-911?
"I don't think the city's "Reverse 911" system should be used for anything other than emergency information. I don't appreicate receiving recorded messages from any organization, certainly not from a machine that my tax dollars were used to purchase."
I agree 100%!
5:32. We keeping missing a piece of the puzzle. Who told, directed or ordered the officer to record the message on the Reverse 911 machine? From what I recall, it is the same voice all the time which is one of the command officers in the police department. They certainly should know what is proper to send out. The mayor needs to answer for this.
2:59, better not hold your breath for that.
True. Getting that answer may be a challenge, but worth pursuing.
6:17. Just ask the Police Chief, he's in charge right? Or is the Mayor, I forget!
Just ask Helen, when Roys not around.
It appears that this and the past administration allow their secretaries to make all the decisions. Is this why we are in the situation we are in?
Where do you get off slandering the secretaries now? Is there no end to who you want to blame for what is going on at city hall?
The secretaries have no clout; the secretaries are not the head of their departments. They have a boss, who has a bigger boss, who has the biggest boss.
Don't start at the bottom of the pile if you want answers. Secretaries do not make the laws but others do. Start up high to where instructions are filtered down.
There is no way you can put this on secretaries; that is unless you do so in desperation as you are falling from the the highest tree that you swing from, trying to grasp at branches on your way down to the ground.
Sandy Grave
Hello!
Are there not 8 aldermen up there. Have they lost their voice? All this talk about who did what. Residents are pretty darned tired of secrecy and closed meetings and our officials always stepping around the poop.
Placing blame, yep, we are looking for the party who has us a tad upset over this. The person who 1. knew better, or 2. did not know better. And, Why. Otherwise, we are being represented and paying salaries to all the wrong people. You know, our money.
How about gettiing the answer guys? Does it not look like we want to know. While you ask us for a tax increase, you don't seem to want us to ask you to do your job -representing us. Why? This is not rabble rousing, we are asking you for some sunlight.
Who approved and dictated the dictate that it is okay to use the reverse 911 system and the city bulletin to announce a private citizen group meeting. How hard is it to get us this answer?
No, it is not going to go away. This is another example of a 9 man troop who make their own rules and to heck with who they represent.
4:29 PM blogger: How right you are my friend! It is not going away as the Ethics commission has acknowledged receipt of the complaint, and I expect a full and concise investigation to start very soon!
I will also be filing a F.O.I.A. request at City Hall for the answers to the questions we all have concerning this mess!
Trust me, there is not a rug big enough to sweep this one under, we will have the answers even if it's from the dog catcher!
In the interim, let's all sit back and let the commission do their job.
Tom Ford
Tom. Let's save the State some money. The answer to your question(s)is: Roy.
I have said it over and over, and someday, everyone will understand what a _______ (your can fill in the appropriate word) Roy really is!
2:52 PM 8/18/08 Well say what you want, Mr Trueblood but I have seen your antics on the dais and they were far from professional.
So in your eyes, every problem and every thing that is wrong in this administration points to Roy. That's called a magnificent obcession.
However I would bet you found nothing wrong with the other administration that you were part of did you. You only saw then what you wanted to see.
One of our previous mayor high on booze half the time was OK with you. Your CA pulled off some boo boo's in the office with his finance person that others saw with their own eyes, but funny you never heard about it. People saw it and heard about it much like what you say you heard from that girl who works for city hall regarding Prop. l, but you did nothing while your administration played house.How come, Mr. Trueblood. What's so different? And now you want to come across as a crusader for honesty and integrity. It's no secret that you and the previous CA were joined at the hip.
But immoral things that were going on then, right under your nose, you could not see or refused to see. Why? Because you and he were best buddies. Yes, the good old "buddy system" with the CA. He wouldn't lie or do things wrong. Only this mayor.
Now you want us to believe that your whole conquest is to make things better as you hide behind your self-righteousness when all you want to do is breed hatred for one person, the mayor. Better look at your self first.
Your whole motive for everything you do since you left city hall was focused on only one thing this mayor, which makes you extremely dangerous.
And since that is all you really care about, you and yours are hardly in any position to make things right for Crestwood.
Once you start looking at all of your own mistakes before you look at others, maybe then you would speak with more humility rather than comment and leave a blank before the mayor's name.
If Roy resigned now, you wouldn't have a problem with the pay raises, the city staff or Crestwood as a whole; and all your trouble with Crestwood would be gone. When you wrote your previous comment, you showed us that your hatred is really scary.
4:37 PM blogger: Are we being a bit presumptuous here tying that blog to Mr. Trueblood? I failed to see his signature on the post!
I will tell you this much, if Tim Trueblood would have made the remarks you attribute to him he would have signed his name!
I have known him for some time now, and he is not one to duck an issue, or hide in the shadows when he feels strongly about anything.
While you may or may not like him, you have to give him credit for standing his ground and fighting for what he believes in.
I wish we had more "men" on the Board that felt the same way. As I see it there are only two (Miguel and Nieder) who have the courage of their convictions to take a stand for US!
Tom Ford
Well, well how things change Mr. Ford.. So now Mr. Trueblood is full of sweetness and light in your eyes. To hear you throw bouquets to Mr. Trueblood is really a surprise. Must have had a meeting of the minds or something to change your toon. Would have never believed Mr. Ford you would have done such a 360 degree turn as to climb in bed with Mr. Trueblood. I wish you both luck but don't break your arms patting each other on the back. In fact, you should have someone watch your back cause obviously you don't know your enemies even when you can see the whites of their eyes. Remember, he did not vote for you in your run for alderman; but that was then I see. We need to move forward for Crestwood. Remember at one time, you backed Roy. That's a no no in Trueblood land. Too bad you flip flopped right into enemy territory. I could tell from your comments that something new was going on. Now we know.
4:37 PM, August 19, 2008
8:35 PM, August 19, 2008
Blah, blah, blah......try and stay focused on the subject.
Dear 4:37/8:35
I was in a sales meeting from 10:00am to 5:00p.m. today the 18th of August. After which I went to the Cardinals game at 6:00p.m with a customer and returned home at 10:30p.m. All in all, a long day. If you do not believe this is true, please advise where I can send you the proof you need to see that I didn't and couldn't have made the 10:52 that you accuse me of making.
Unlike you I will not stand behind the vail of "anonymous" and attack some one falsely
Do I agree with Mr. Mayor, no not very much at all, have I asked him questions in public in person face to face and on my old blog that to answer would have caused him embarrassment, heck yes. Have I given my views about his leadership in my signed letters to the CALL, yes, you know I have. Have Mr, Ford and I seen eye to eye, not often, but have I respected him and his service to our nation, yes, 100% of the time, and he has always treated my family and I with respect even when we disagree.
All of this has been done in public by the signing my of name, something you seem to lack the spine to do.
So if you want proof that I am not poster 10:52, tell me how I can reach you and I'll get it to you. My email address is still
stltimt@hotmail.com, our phone number is unlisted at this time but we still live on Gillespie.
As to my behaviour as Alderman that is so disagreeable to you, I served the Citizens of Ward Two for 13 years. Only once did someone run against me. I must have been doing something right.
I guess you find it unmoral for two single people to date each other if one is a boss and the other is an employee. Is it a smart thing to do, heck no, but illegal or immoral, I don't think so.
Joined at the hip to Mr. Greer, nope not at all, we disagreed on many policy issues. Could I have done better, YES with 20/20 hind sight there are many things I would have done better.
"much like what you say you heard from that girl who works for city hall regarding Prop. l." I do not have a clue what your talking about.
Hatred for the Mayor, not at all, we had lunch up at the Jack in the Box last week. Had a nice talk about grand kids and flying airplanes. I believe he has become a very poor Mayor no matter how much of a very likable man he is. And I do not feel that saying so equates to hating him.
In closing it is always easy to do what you do, but it takes real bravery to ask questions for the record face to face with someone you disagree with or sign your name to a letter to the paper or sign your name to your post, like Mr. Ford, Ms Duchild, MS Grave, Mr. Malter and Mr. Murphy have done in the past.
I so look forward to hearing from your soon so I can correct your errors.
tim
trueblood
Well 8:35, you have been called out, are you going stand up or hide?
No because you are obviously having too much fun. Why don't you say something?
12:25/8:35/4:37
Have you read the Call today, try to blame what is written in there on someone else. Roy isn't very nice to Martha D. so I guess she now hates him to, cause she asked him a question.
Man, is Roy ever mistreated, thank goodness you are out there claiming all this hate as you spout hate against Trueblood and others. By the way, Trueblood offered you proof that your posts about him were wrong, what did he give you when you contacted him?
8:35 PM blogger: As your comments reflect the narrow minded meanderings of a fool, I shall not grace them with a response!
By the way, Mr. Trueblood basically called you unknowledgeable, now what will you do about that oh brave soul?
You should give thanks to God that when he made you a fool, he instilled cowardice as well to protect you.
Tom Ford
I am just waiting anxiously to read the ethics commission report on the pay raises in the police department and what the civil service commission is going to do about the fate of that bad girl, Helen, the turncoat, at city hall who was playing secret agent to the Prop. Committee.
Now that the tax increase failed, you know, because that money was going to be used for pay increases for the employees and not for services, I guess that ethics commission report is the only thing we should be waiting for. You know so we can hang a few more people. That should be fun to see the police chief get fired, and the secretary. We'll show them won't we. Can hardly wait.
4:53 PM blogger: Let's try this one more time!
The State Ethics commission will not be investigating the Police raises/ promotions, that is the job of the locals (which they blew off!)
The State Ethics commission will be looking into the way the funds were spent by the City, and who was responsible for using public funding for a private P.A.C. (Political Action Committee.)
I do disagree reference the "fun" part of your post, because this will be anything but fun for the parties who allowed this to happen.
Tom Ford
Well shame on the aldermen for blowing off the pay raises. Let's see now. We have, shame on the mayor and most of the board members, shame on the city attorney and shame on the police chief and probably shame on the secretary. Can't imagine who is left.
Can't wait for the services to get cut off if things don't get better in the future, by 2010 for instance. Then Tom maybe you can change the "water and the wine" into new sidewalks and street repairs, snow removal, and whatever else we need. I mean everything except new police cars because we never got new police cars until this chief was appointed. That's right the old chief, he was satisifed with no new cars at all and when he got new ones, they were the cheap ones.
You may feel real smug because the tax increase failed and you may think it is because your blog is so popular, but just because Jerry Miquel says there is money today, doesn't mean that it is going to last forever, unless we start building up sales tax soon.
If we had 2 Trillion dollars in the bank, Jerry Miquel would still say no to any money being spent. If he had the figures in his hand to prove we had 2 trillion dollars, he would still never stop questioning and as soon as one question was answered, he would have five more. It's called being "cheap".
Jerry Miquel is for not spending a dime no matter what the circumstances are.
We won't feel the impact now, but as soon as people start complaining about services, and they will, you will all have yourselves to blame.
Too bad there was nobody watching money in the late 1990's and early 2000's. This epedemic didn't just start in the last 4 plus years. That's right, I forgot, we can't control that, we can only bitch about it now and blame everything on this mayor and board of aldermen. Give me a break.
I got an idea Tom, you run for mayor next and ask Trueblood to be your campaign manager.
6:44 PM blogger: Gee whiz, what a great post! I do love the fact that you feel I am "smug!"
Now let's see, your side lost, you can't get over the fact that you lost!
You are having a hard time with the fact that I have backed Tim Trueblood!
You feel you are going to loose all of your services from the City!
You cannot understand why 72% of Crestwood disagrees with you!
And yet, you want me to run for Mayor?
Gee, are we needing some higher doses of your meds, or what?
Tom Ford
"Well shame on the aldermen for blowing off the pay raises. Let's see now. We have, shame on the mayor and most of the board members, shame on the city attorney and shame on the police chief and probably shame on the secretary. Can't imagine who is left."
A lot of shame going around, isn't there? Are we being a little melodramatic?
"Can't wait for the services to get cut off if things don't get better in the future, by 2010 for instance. Then Tom maybe you can change the "water and the wine" into new sidewalks and street repairs, snow removal, and whatever else we need. I mean everything except new police cars because we never got new police cars until this chief was appointed. That's right the old chief, he was satisifed with no new cars at all and when he got new ones, they were the cheap ones."
Yeah, you are so right. Crestwood should have bought 20, 30, or maybe 100 new police cars. Maybe with heated leather seats, preferably foreign over domestic. The heck with the taxpayer trying to make it and feed his/her family and pay his bills. That taxpayer is just being selfish! By God, this city exists for its employees, people!!!
"You may feel real smug because the tax increase failed..." I don't feel smug. But there is a lot of anger out there about how the city is being run. Don't believe me, knock on some doors.
"If we had 2 Trillion dollars in the bank, Jerry Miquel would still say no to any money being spent. If he had the figures in his hand to prove we had 2 trillion dollars, he would still never stop questioning and as soon as one question was answered, he would have five more. It's called being "cheap"."
It's called being careful, but what the heck, like the mayor said about purchasing a new server, it's 'only' $15,000.00. Now that's they type of guy I want managing my money!
"Too bad there was nobody watching money in the late 1990's and early 2000's. This epedemic didn't just start in the last 4 plus years. That's right, I forgot, we can't control that, we can only bitch about it now and blame everything on this mayor and board of aldermen. Give me a break."
It didn't start in the last 4 years but it is continuing.
"I got an idea Tom, you run for mayor next and ask Trueblood to be your campaign manager.
6:44 PM, August 20, 2008"
Sound good to me! Where do I sign up?
If you feel you can change things around for Crestwood without any money, good! Go ahead and perform your miracle cause that's what it's going to take.
You can't see it now because you are not smart enough to see further than your nose but you will see down the line that man cannot live on sales tax alone.
You can cut the budget to a bare skeleton, but it isn't going to amount to a hill of beans to put back this city without a tax increase. You can make as many budget cuts as you want but it still isn't going to help.
If sales tax doesn't pick up, you will see zip in this town without a tax increase and that's with cutting everything to its bare bones.
But you would rather deal with it later than now and so you will.
"You can make as many budget cuts as you want but it still isn't going to help."
Sorry, but I do not agree. If cuts are made, then long-term expenses will decrease as well.
In some areas of the city, we are overstaffed. I'm not sure how much annually, but I believe we are subsidizing Sappington House. We also have large fleets of vehicles.
Cuts will not solve all of our problems, but they will help.
You can't see it now because you are not smart enough to see further than your nose but you will see down the line that man cannot live on sales tax alone.
How long did it take you to come up with that one?
You can't see it now because you are not smart enough to see further than your nose but you will see down the line that man cannot live on sales tax alone.
How long did it take you to come up with that one?
In my view, the sidewalk in front of a house should be the homeowners responsibility to maintain, not the City. Just as it is the owners responsibility to have the snow removed not the City.
The streets are the City's, but has any one seen a street that is not up to standards? Street snow removal is the City's job.
Poster 4:37/8:35 8/19/08
What's the latest on the proof you were going to get from t.t.? Can you share it with the rest of us? How long did it take for him to get the proof you needed back to you? When did you request it? By email or on this Blog?
We are all out here waiting for you to back up your hate speech with some proof that you have been offered.
You have been kind of quite since than, what's up, Cat got your fingers?
Good afternoon. This is 2:52 from 8/18. Please don't call me Tim! (no offense Tim).
I have a truly deep rooted disgust for roy...kinda like Sandy does for Don. My only goal in life is to show everyone what roy's true colors are. He will be remembered as the mayor that killed Crestwood.
8:24 PM blogger: The only "miricle" we need here is for the Mayor and the Board to STOP the spending!
Try the "cuts," place some fiscal restraint on the Department Heads, and we will be OK!
You want to start by saving at least 70K? Cut the position of "animal control officer," and give it to County (which we pay for now!) Oh, I forgot, that's a "sacred cow" in Crestwood isn't it.
Ross Perot was right "Just because you can run the corner store, dosen't mean you can run Walmart!" Jim Eckrige is more than capable of righting the ship, so watch and see what he accomplishes!
And while I am at it, stop looking to the Government to Cary you through life! If you don't like the look of your sidewalk, FIX IT YOURSELF! Some of us don't have a sidewalk, so that argument falls on deaf ears.
Tom Ford
While I think the new CA is a nice person who means well, he has no experience whatsoever in this position.
The City should have hired an outside person with experience and a strong financial background.
I also belive the BOA only, should be involved in the hiring of this individual.
I doubt though if any qualified person would want to come here with all the publicity.
Mr. Eckrige will only be allowed to do things after first getting approval from the Mayor.
The Mayor needs to quit running the city and just keep his mouth shut and let the new CA give it a try. He can't do any worse than the last one(s). Meyer sure got out of here quickly. I guess it was that $500,000 mistake and he ran out of ex employees to blame.
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