Prop one has failed by 72 to 28%, now where do we go from here?
As I sit here I am reflecting on the "mandate" from the Crestwood Citizens to the BOA, and the Mayor to make the needed cuts as well as manage the funds they now have!
I have seen "threat's" posted on this blog reference the tax increase, and have even seen posters state that my family will suffer!
Well, I will tell you that I would never have said anything like that (in the past) to the "opposition," but it appears that they cannot abide such a defeat, thus the threat's! I will tell them now that "the best is yet to come" reference their campaign, and I look forward to their remarks when the dust settles!
Tom Ford
NO. 532
I have seen "threat's" posted on this blog reference the tax increase, and have even seen posters state that my family will suffer!
Well, I will tell you that I would never have said anything like that (in the past) to the "opposition," but it appears that they cannot abide such a defeat, thus the threat's! I will tell them now that "the best is yet to come" reference their campaign, and I look forward to their remarks when the dust settles!
Tom Ford
NO. 532
posted by Crestwood Independent at 19:19
70 Comments:
Tom, if you need someone to cover your back, count on me.
You emailed me last week about signing a complaint, to which I responded. I'm pretty sure you know who I am.
I agree with you, nail me all you want, but go after my family, that is different.
Tom,
Let me congratulate you on your victory. You took the true conservative stand and the voters stood with you.
Crestwood would benefit greatly from a top to bottom independent review of all municipal services. The fat could easily be trimmed and the financial position of the city straightened.
Keep up the good work and thanks for standing up for the taxpayers.
I just read the Journal and the comments made by the Mayor. I understand he has a problem making a coherant statements, but from what I could gather things are OK as they are and we really did not need the tax increase.??
from http://southcountyjournal.stltoday.com/articles/2008/08/08/news/doc489a050f1ab97675907881.txt
Voters nix Crestwood property tax hike by Steve Birmingham
Thursday, August 7, 2008 10:39 AM CDT
Crestwood voters rejected a 35-cent property tax increase by a wide margin in Tuesday’s voting.
Proposition 1, an attempt to raise taxes and bring in an estimated $1.1 million a year for the next six years, was defeated with 2,159 (72 percent) voting against the measure while 854 voters (28 percent) voted in favor of the raise.
City officials said prior to the vote the city needed the money to bridge an expected shortfall in sales tax revenues not being generated now at the Crestwood Court (formerly Westfield Shoppingtown/Crestwood) and to make up for lost property taxes once the mall is under redevelopment.The failed proposal also included a six-year “sunset clause,” which meant the rate hike would have ended six years after it went into effect.
Crestwood’s tax rate is 0.374 cents per $100 in assessed valuation.
Mayor Roy Robinson, who supported the proposition before the vote, said the voters have spoken.
“We’re going to continue to go along as we have and evaluate as we go,” Robinson said. “We certainly understand what the people have said. They’re the boss, so we’re going to do what’s necessary to try and maintain what we have.”
Robinson said the city has no changes or reductions in mind in light of Proposition 1’s failure.
“There’s no specific direction that we’re going to go,“ he said. “I don’t think we should have any problems unless the economy takes a real dip by 2010. Hopefully the economy will change and it will help us some.”
Robinson said the residents are “comfortable” and simply were not going to support a tax increase.
“I think the voters didn’t want any type of increase and they weren’t listening to what we were trying to do,” Robinson said. “There was a low turnout but people are comfortable with what we’re doing right now.
“I guess when it gets to the point where we don’t have enough money and have to do other things to be able to keep the city going within the budget, we’ll see what that takes. The board just wanted to make sure they (residents) had a say in it. They made their statement and we have to live with it. They’re the boss.”
"There’s no specific direction that we’re going to go,“ he said (robinson)
Imagine that! I think that is part of the problem. Always has been since he has been in office. No good picture of the finances of the city. Why is he on the Ways and Means committee anyway? He is clueless.
"“I think the voters didn’t want any type of increase and they weren’t listening to what we were trying to do,” Robinson said. "
Now that's a classic Roy statement - 'the voters weren't listening'. Roy, the voters are listening and don't like what they hear out of city hall.
If they wanted the tax increase because they didn't have monies, I would hope that they would initiate a "hiring freeze". I read last week that they are hiring 2 more police officers to fill vacancies.
Is any alderman going to stop this hiring?
Low turn out? What was the turn out in the last 3 elections that Roy ran in?
Where do we go from here, you say?
I would suggest you and others start the process of seeing if the police raises were done properly within the charter; rules and regulations, and getting all your materials ready to present to the Ethics Committee like you stated. I would suggest that if the mayor, city attorney and police chief did not follow code, you start the process of getting them removed with the help of the rest of your lynch mob.
You so stated you would on this blog, so I suggest that would be the next step.
5:43 PM blogger: The forms are completed, the back up materials are inserted, and the file is on the way.
Now as to the rest, well that's up to ALL the citizens to decide along with the BOA!
Tom Ford
6:55 AM blogger: Thank you, I greatly appreciate that!
7:18 Am blogger: Thank you for the very kind words! This battle was won rather convincinly, the war will no doubt continue, but we shall keep vigilant!
Tom Ford
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
9:37 PM blogger: Good story, but clean it up and re-post for us please.
Tom Ford
Why are so many crestwood residents unsupportive of the police??? They go far beyond what most other local municipality do. It is ashame they can't be appreciated. I think the Cheif would be smart to start cutting back the police services offered to the city. In fact I hope they start writing crestwood residents for infractions... just think of it as another "tax".
The truth of the matter is, if crestwood wants to keep well educated and well trained officers they are going to have to pay more for them. Or they will continue to loose them to other local municipalities that support there police, like Des Peres and Kirkwood.
12:12 Horray somebody said it right. Good comment. They don't want to give the cops recognition for anything because they hate the police chief cause he was hired by Roy. Pure and simple politics. Makes me sick.
I seem to recall the Mayor and others saying the increase in tax WAS NOT for increased salaries. In fact one Alderman wrote a letter to the TIMES supporting the increase because of the need for money to be used for things like the Street Repair program. Now there are those posters here which are coming out with the real reason for the increase, it was to increase the wages of those who work for the City.
I think that the lie told by the Mayor and the Citizens group supporting Prop one is one of the many reasons voters said no, they don't like being lied to, they want the truth, and they will not open their check book unless they believe there is a need. The need was never truthful told.
Also,a question, the Capital Improvement Sales Tax is for Capital improvements, like street repair. The Alderman's letter to the Times said the street repair program was hold due to lack if income.
Where, how and on what is the money collected from the sales tax for Capital improvements being spent now, regardless of little it is?
By state law it can only be spent on Capital Improvements, what has it been spent on?
3:56 And you are willing to listen to the bloggers that can't get anything right half the time. There were no lies told to you or anyone; just what some think they know.
I knew long before now that we would have to tighten our belts in Crestwood, but I was also smart enough to know that you can't live on sales tax alone forever.
It is a pity that you and others believe everything you hear from others and it's a pity that others wanted nothing more than to create havoc for this mayor to the point where they would say anything that was mere speculation on their part to get a No vote out of anyone. Their objectivity succeeded; cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
By 2010, if things don't change, you will be able to see how the city cannot live on 37 cents per 100 assessed valuation. Til then, you can listen to whatever you so desire.
I just went through Kirkwood today. Their residents and locals are thriving in a great community. People walking dogs, walking with their kids, going to the center of activity in their town. People are everywhere. They pay a lot more than we do on taxes, probably triple what we pay; but when they go to sell their homes, they will be worth more too.
Ours won't be worth a nickel if we keep this up.
So horray you won, or did you.
4:31 PM blogger: You tried, but you failed to convenience the voters they needed the tax.
Let it go, it's over, we all have but one life, and your wasting yours tilting at a windmill that's in the past!
Were we lied to? well, we shall See, won't we. As for now, I think you and all of us would be better served coming up with answers rather than accusations, but that's just me!
I am positive "round two" will be forthcoming on the issue, so you will have another chance to explain your thinking. I only hope that you can do it without the sarcastic remarks about your fellow citizens because they are tired of it!
Tom Ford
So the tax increase was not for wage increases, then what was if to spent on?
Ans since when did higher taxes mean higher home values?
What is the Capital Improvements Tax money being spent on?
12:12 Horray somebody said it right. Good comment. They don't want to give the cops recognition for anything because they hate the police chief cause he was hired by Roy. Pure and simple politics. Makes me sick.
12:50 PM, August 09, 2008
A lot like Greer. Just because Greer did something, it was not done right, or so it goes. People couldn't stand him. Pure and simple politics too.
4:31 PM, August 09, 2008
rubbish
Well Tom you should also be tired of comments from the people who opposed the tax increase just as much as proponents. That's only fair.
Tax Opponents on this blog, also have stated many things that were down right cruel. You didn't have a problem with them opposing the tax in their very certain terms. When things are said that are unfair, that's when I get angry. If you can't see that, well I am truly sorry.
You should be impartial because if you can't be impartial, then your blog is no better than Trueblood's
I always thought that you could see both sides but if you are going to let people get by with stating their nonsense, for heaven sake why be opposed by my rebuttals. Yes, I get angry because people are so porous. They soak up dumb, stupid stuff and believe everything they hear when there is no basis for it.
I get upset when people make statements like the tax increase was going for employee raises and not for public improvements. So the mayor lied. Don't you see how stupid that is.
Why let someone get by with stating that this tax increase was about employee salaries when it isn't true and you know it. Why let someone say they were "lied" to by the mayor when you know that is nonsense.
The mayor has done things that I am against and you are against, but is it right to call him a "liar". Tom someone has gotten into your logical way of thinking.
I don't see you getting angry with anyone who was against the tax increase. Why? Because you were against it? What a way to run a paper.
Beware Tom. I like you an awful lot. But let me tell you to be careful. Now people have congratulated you, and thanked you for your blog, etc. and these people are all stating they will cover your back and "count on me". But it could very well be that these were the same people who ridiculed you because of your stance on the swim club and Kohl's and any other thing that flew up their noses at different times in the past.
You think that all these people who are giving you plaudits won't be the same people who will cut your throat down the line? Guess again!
If this tax increase would have fallen through, you would have been hung at midnight. People forget Tom. People are your pals when things go there way; when they don't, you will see you have very few friends like me. Please don't make me the enemy Tom. I just want things to be fair for both sides. So the tax lost. OK so it lost. But now even with the mayor saying that "the people have spoken", they still yesterday, today and tomorrow will find something bad about his words. I get so sick of it. Maybe you are sick of me, but at least I don't tell lies. I want people to treat others fairly instead of spouting off about things they know nothing about.
Gee Tom! What's wrong with you? How dare you oppose a tax hike! What do you think this is, a democracy?
6:51 PM blogger: As you may know I do allow both sides to post here (minus nasty words,) so I am having a hard time understanding your post.
No one on this blog is considered "the enemy" believe me! I want nothing more than for all of us to be civil, and state your remarks in a fashion that is not demeaning to your fellow citizens!
Blog on, but please understand that there is always at least two sides to every comment, and ALL of us who make them are very sincere in our beliefs!
Tom Ford
7:05 PM blogger: Sometimes I wonder!
Tom Ford
7:05 Never said anyone didn't have the right to oppose the tax increase. What I dislike and Tom should agree is that when you dislike something, say you dislike it and don't make excuses that are heresay. People hate taxes in general, so just say you are tired of being taxed period! But to blame this one or that one or say people are lying about this or that, it nothing more than heresay.
When people start doing that, then it isn't about the real issue at all; it's about the politics
Just like you that are now assuming that I am upset with Tom for opposing the tax. That's nonsense and Tom should know it.
Simple.
I didn't make any excuses that were heresay. What are you talking about?
Fact A: the Mayor and and others who supported the tax increase said the increase would not be use for salaries or wage increases.
Fact B: Posters on this blog and writers to newspapers are now saying that because the increase was defeated, we well loss employees to other cities who pay better.
Question: Who was telling us the truth, A or B? Who was lying, A or B? They both couldn't be telling the truth.
Fact C:
Crestwood lost FOUR Policeman to better paying cities with better retirement, insurance etc. within the last nine months!
I think a propisition should be placed on the next ballot specifically for Public Safety. No sugar coating. No BS.
I think my fellow citizens would agree that we need to do everything possible to keep our professional public safety workers right here in Crestwood.
I also think that seeing Prop 1 die, alot of them (public safety workers) are fearful of getting cut from the overall budget, and I will bet you that we see more and more of our police and fire workers going to Kirkwood or Des Peres and the like. Why? They want stability for their families just like you and me!
I, for one, am proud of our police and fire workers. I don't want to see a mass exidus anymore than the next person.
We need to get past this "he said she said" stuff and do what will benefit this community as a whole.
I know public safety workers who work for county and other municipalities such as Kirkwood. The morale at those places isn't much better.
Here we go with the threat of loss of services again.
My comment was not intended to come across as a threat. And morale has little to do with it, in my opinion. I think we will lose more workers to better paying cities who have a firmer grasp on their financial future. No threats- just an opinion.
11:53 I totally agree but there are some people who will be very much against this.
I don't want to criticize anyone, but Jerry Miquel may do his homework and may be very good at numbers, but he wouldn't want to give the employees two cents. He is never in agreement with any kind of spending whether it is needed or not. This is one of the things I have witnessed in the past from him, and also heard others state it. But those people don't just say he is against spending anything, some say he is just plain "tight". This may sound wonderful to you, but you can't run a city like you would run your household.
However, I also know that there have been many good officers who have left as well as fire department personnel for better paying jobs.
I feel that we are lucky to have our public safety employees. In saying what I have previously stated, I do not want anyone to consider it a threat, but a fact that the turnover is greater now than it has been in a long time.
Many residents can be very unconcerned about our police and fire services but they haven't had to experience life or death situations as many of us have with ourselves, and our children.
Just my thoughts.
11:39 AM blogger: I doubt the reason for the public safety people is "better salary, or retirement."
The salary is pretty much the same for ALL the south county muni's, and the retirement is State set up for all of them, so one muni is the same as the next in that arena.
As I understand it morale plays a much bigger roll in this than anything else, and not because of money either.
The last two police officers we lost were due to the fact that had been here for a long time, and were never even considered for promotion!
Why? I don't know, but there should have been a civil service selection board convened for oral boards, as well as written tests, there wasn't.
In my mind the worst thing you can do to an employee is to just pass them over with no chance to compete, and no explanation of why!
Bark up that tree with your Alderman and see what they have to say, as an officer on the street how they feel, and I think you will have an entirely different perspective on this.
Tom Ford
"This may sound wonderful to you, but you can't run a city like you would run your household."
Yes, the city can be run like a household or a business. Simple - cash in, cash out. Watch numbers going in, watch spending going out.
With fifteen raises, five promotions and a fleet of ten new cars, if there are officers leaving, something else might be going on.
Perhaps no one has considered the fact that there is one job that if performed well is practically iron clad - that is municipal employees. Job security nowdays is priceless. So police and firemen are safe. Then, there are the multi thousands who are being laid off from the business world right here in St. Louis and all over the USA on a daily basis. Don't you think they aspire to this kind of job security? Best you all consider the changing times and the fact that people are tired of employees in cities using the morale issue or perks and raises. Things are tough all over. These employees are expected to perform in their jobs, just like any other job, often beyond the call of duty, and why not please tell me? They need to perform in an exemplary fashion and they n eed to realize who is paying their salaries. Surely they don't stand around and compare perks, pensions, etc. all day long, and check out other venues. But perhaps it is well they do, for this city has been as good as they can to our employees.Some municipalities no long have pensions, just 401Ks. Way of the world, now folks. Think it time the aldermen and mayor do some serious research and lets get past this "ah, the police and firemen are being so mistreated." We respect them, we admire them, and we pay them. We are not all tickled pink in our jobs, with our salaries and benefits, but we perservere. So quit this stupid nonsense about the police all leaving, etc. etc. If that is their cup of tea. Then Goodbye it is. But, first they should give some thought to the fact that taxpayers are simply not going to pass increases so that city halls and their employees can dictate policy. And, they best remember that job security is a major asset nowdays. When was the last time you and your work associates played unhappy and threatened to leave, and found it an answer to your dreams?
3:22 PM Dear Sir or Madame,
I think you have a misconception of municipal employees. I know many of them and they don't exhibit being upset because of raises not being given or because the tax increase failed.
They are concerned about more cuts being done and they may be the next one to get laid off. Police and Fire employees have families and children. I don't blame them for not waiting around wondering if they are going to be next. Think about it, would you? They have seen and heard that the residents want more cuts. If I had a big family to support, I wouldn't stick around either. Their pay isn't the problem, it's the cuts.
The employees are not big shot Federal employees. This is just a municipality and I don't think any of the employees should be blamed for being a little scared. This over emphasis on the employees is the furthest thing that should be upsetting you.
All anticipated raises for the next fiscal year for each department were always figured into the budget and they were integrated into the budget of every department in the city.
I have never, ever seen or heard of any of the employees being upset with their jobs to the point where they demanded or felt like they needed a tax increase to better their salaries. They all know they work for the residents. That is instilled in them from the first day of work. If you don't like to help people, you have no business being a city employee.
The employees I know accept the bad times and are happy with the good times like we all are. But they are not afraid of buckling down and working hard; they just don't want to be laid off.
No one should be putting the employees in a bad light just because people are leaving. They just don't want to loose their jobs, which isn't the same as wanting a raise.
Let's face it, most of the people on this blog, want cuts. No need to get upset with the employees for not wanting to be one of those cuts.
Thanks for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
The salary is pretty much the same for ALL the south county muni's, and the retirement is State set up for all of them, so one muni is the same as the next in that arena.
Sorry Tom... not true. Des Peres is in MUCH better fiancial condition than Crestwood due to their willingness to do a TIF and CID for their Mall and has given regular COLA increases.
We have lost at least three officers to Des Peres in the last three years alone. Des Peres pension is NOT LAGERS which is what Crestwood has. Kirkwood's pension is funded by a dedicated property tax, Crestwood is not. Kirkwood just passed a property tax increase, whith a big chunk of it going to their public safety departments.
The fact is while we wine about TIF and haggle over a property tax increase that would have left us BELOW what Kirkwood has, our police officers continue to leave and our fire departmetn relies on hand-me-down fire trucks.
9:07 PM That is good information to know. Now all you have to do is convince the other residents. It's a pity but these facts as important as they are, will not make any of the people who voted against the tax increase to change their minds.
Worse of it is, there will never be a right time for them. They will continue to refuse to listen to logic and unfortunately will always blame their No Vote on anything other than the fact that they don't want to pay it.
It is true regarding the second hand fire truck that we purchased several years ago because we could not afford a new one. Still, that being known, the board of aldermen didn't do a thing about the excessive spending that was going on. They talk about the spending now, but didn't do anything at all then. To me, that was a red flag if there ever was one. Dr. LaBore told me that we got it becsuse "it was a good deal". Sure was; especially when we couldn't afford a new one. Had we afforded to purchase one, we wouldn't have been looking at "used" ones now would we!
I agree with all you have said; but still you will never get the people in this town to increase the property tax and it doesn't matter how much more the budget is cut. That is just an excuse and it won't matter what month, day or year we try to get it through.
What I would like to see is more people like you, who know the facts explain this to bloggers. There seems to be no end to the negative voters.
I sit hear reading all the comments by people who have bits and pieces of information. I have to tell you that all police departments aren't alike Tom.
The two officers that left to Kirkwood was for better pay, to be exact a bit over four grand. The retirement is that much better than Crestwood's. These two officer's received the adjustment from the chief. It wasn't enough to stay.
Two officer's left to Des Peres this year for better benifits and one left to Brentwood last year because he felt he may loose his job, since he was at the bottom of the barrel.
So it comes down to this Tom, employee's are leaving to find their own pay raise. Senior offices, and Sgt's that have left already, just wanted a pay raise or a cost of living every year. We are aren't asking for much.
In stead the last five almost six years have shed only a 3% raise. Now the employee's are being told that the next 4-6 years will be uncertain with pay raises. One can not plan a future like this with rising cost. There are to many other cities that are taking care of their employee's with raises or cost of living raises. If you stay in Crestwood your looking at almost a decade with little or nothing in the form of a raise.
The city will continue to see a exit from all employee's from all of the departments. It's rumored that Kirkwood will start another process soon. More will apply to better their self.
Yes, you are all right. No concern for the property owner. We should raise taxes for the employees. The city exists not for its residents, but employees.
don't think the firemen are seeing exodus, why are police? is there something going on there?
Yeah, the Police don't have a billion dollar union at their beck and call.
don't think the firemen are seeing exodus, why are police? is there something going on there?
Not much mobility in the Fire Departments/Districts in St. Louis County.... Yoy have to know the right people to get hired by a fire district as most are run by a handpicked union board and there are only a handful of muni departments with very little turnover.
11:29 Pay raises are given in accordance with the pay and classification plan in the City of Crestwood and all pay raises are placed in the budget and approved by the Ways and Means Committee. We have hiring freezes but I have never heard of someone not getting their raise because of our Crestwood economy. These pay raises are done based on productivity and their anniversary date.
These people are working for a living just like everyone else. Just because we are suffering from a bad economy, the raises are not over the top and still done in a timely fashion and are always included in the budget.
These people are not your flesh and blood. They don't owe you a pound of their flesh. My God are you so self-absorbed and hateful that you think we should deny them what they deserve?
I can see a hiring freeze but there is a pay and classification plan that is followed. It is too bad if these raises don't meet with your approval. They are done in accordance with the laws on the books and the department heads and public officials and Ways and Means Committee take those raises and incorporate them into the budget.
In my view, if you wish to lash out at elected officials for not doing a good job, have at it. But the employees of this city are not here for accolades or praise. They need money just like you to live. They have husbands, wives and little children that need care. They work because they have to not for awards and "at a boy" proclamations. They should not be condemned for it. We are lucky to have good ones.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sandy Grave
Is it just me, or does the fact that within days of the tax increase defeat the mayor says we have enough money to keep everything the same? Then why did we need the tax increase?
We'll have to ask the mayor again, but who knows, we may get a different answer this time!
The truth is the Mayor really hasn't a clue on how to operate with in a budget and has proven so every year he has been in office. Don't forget the Mayor is 1/3 of the Ways and Means Committee who presents the budget to the BOA for their approval each year.
What he is doing now is spreading the blame for the tax increases failure on the BOA, something like " I really didn't want an increase but they just had to have it so I went along" is going to come from him, wait and see.
You got it all figured out have you? It stated in the newspaper something like "the people voted and have spoken their desire to not have a tax increase".
You got what you wanted; no tax increase. What the hey else do you want the man to do? I never heard him say one thing about blaming anyone. But I can see that you are "still" unhappy.
You and yours would find anything and everything wrong with this mayor to create ill will and it doesn't matter what the mayor does. You know it, I know it and so does everybody else. Heck, he can't even go to his country house without someone making a big deal out of it.
Thing is, as long as he is mayor, you will never, ever, ever, never be happy. It doesn't matter what the issues are. You have contempt for him and you continue to do everything in your power to make it so.
How's that sound? Pretty right on I would say.
"You got what you wanted; no tax increase. What the hey else do you want the man to do? I never heard him say one thing about blaming anyone."
He said something to the effect that the voters weren't listening. If I find the quote, I will post it.
8:32 OK I will be anxious to hear it. Thanks.
5:44 well heck maybe he shouldn't let anyone know he is going to his "country house" if he doesn't like the big deal made of it.
Don't worry, the Mayors blame game starts tonight, poor Roy, he cant help it, he was born with his foot in his mouth.
7:13 And poor you, who let's his mouth overload his booty. Your obvious hatred for this mayor shows who you are. I think you should go to the meeting tonight and tell him that to his face.
And also let us know the next time you leave town, we would like to know cause we will all pray you don't come back.
We need people like you in this town, like a moose needs a hat rack.
9:30 here is the quote from -
http://southcountyjournal.stltoday.com/articles/2008/08/12/news/doc489a050f1ab97675907881.txt
Voters nix Crestwood property tax hike by Steve Birmingham
Thursday, August 7, 2008 10:39 AM
"Robinson said the city has no changes or reductions in mind in light of Proposition 1’s failure.
“There’s no specific direction that we’re going to go,“ he said. “I don’t think we should have any problems unless the economy takes a real dip by 2010. Hopefully the economy will change and it will help us some.”
Robinson said the residents are “comfortable” and simply were not going to support a tax increase.
“I think the voters didn’t want any type of increase and they weren’t listening to what we were trying to do,” Robinson said. “There was a low turnout but people are comfortable with what we’re doing right now."
That was the quote. I'm not sure if I agree that people are 'comfortable' with what the city is doing now.
Thanks. And no I am also sure that people are not comfortable. But let's see what happens in the near future.
I am sure there will be someone who will step up to the plate as our next mayor. It will be interesting who it will be and what he does any different.
Either way, the economy will be the biggest factor for everyone in this country. If it doesn't turn around, all we may have to sustain ourselves is each other. Maybe then we can all look at each other in unity instead of hostility. Do you think?
9:16 it doesn't matter if I hate or love this mayor, what I post is about what he does. Are you saying that the only people who can post here with less than favorable things to say about the Mayor are those who 'love 'him?
You keep making this issue that anyone who criticizes the mayor hates him, isn't that kind of narrow minded on your part?
No it isn't narrow minded on my part; it is narrow minded on your part. Seeing as how your comments always are either sarcastic or over the top.
Hey post anything you want! If you think I am trying to say you cannot post your comments; that would be against your rights. But it is within my right to see right through you and others.
I do not and have not liked things the mayor has done; believe it or not. What I don't like from you and yours are how you stand in the background like a sniper, and do what all people do that do not like a President, First Lady, Mayor, Alderman, State Rep., Federal Senator, etc. You pick the man or woman to death and wait for anytime you can say to demean them.
I Don't like it, never have and never will.
Blog On, please but don't expect me to like it nor do you have to like mine.
You'll get to pick your next mayor; hope it's the one you want. You know the one who never makes mistakes and walks on water.
so you are saying Roy has made mistakes? List them for us please so we can call you the names you have call others on this blog when they listed Roy's mistakes
7:45 No first you list the names you and others have called Roy. You were the first ones to initiate the name calling; I was merely playing with the same cards and rules you showed me you were using.
The mayor and the board had chances to get to the bottom of the police raises and the use of city resources for a political action committee. Guts were lacking to say the least and they chose not to. I'm ashamed of our board and our city. These are dark days in our city.
8:07 you are a child, no your one first, no, I said it first. Go back to your playground.
Take time to reread your posts and see who calls names, it is YOU.
You know what, talking to you is not worth my time, if you cant answer a simple question, then who needs you.
By the way, it's people like you that make me dislike our current mayor more each time I read one of your "defend the mayor posts", so keep it up, you doing great.
"But it is within my right to see right through you and others."
5:22 PM, August 12, 2008
Wow! Can you predict which stocks I should invest in???
7:21 So now you blame me for you not liking the mayor? Boy there is no end to the things I have done wrong.
You don't like my posts and you know exactly which ones are mine. Wow, we have a mind reader on the blog. Go back and see what you wrote and examine your own comments.
You don't like mine, I don't like yours. I call that even.
You don't like mine, I don't like yours. I call that even.
That sounds like the lyric of a country song!
both of you are waisting space and air.
Gee sorry! I was told I produce too much air - too much hot air!
both of you are waisting space and air.
if you want to see some air and space wasted, go to the boa meetings.
Oh please, Des Peres gives TIF's, i.e. West County Mall. Right, TIF's are definitely for rich communities development projects. Help the billionairs. Best you look into the real reason for TIF's. Des Peres situation is a total travesty.
Tax Increment Financing is nothing more than an avenue given to developers by the government to assist in future growth of cities and counties in this country.
However, and once again, people (developers and many times city officials) have given the OK to contractors and builders, who abuse the system and just want more money on their plates. It's always that way in our society.
People get greedy and create a paradox for a normally advantageous program.
Just like drugs that are suppose to be used for people who are suffering pain and illness. That is primarily what the drug companies produced these drugs for. But, we all know that there are those who use them for nothing more than a way to make money selling these drugs to anyone at the highest price for unintended uses. But it isn't the drug companies who are at fault.
Society is greedy and unfortunately when things placed in our system for the good of everyone are used to fill someone else's pockets, it turns into chaos for all of us.
Sad but true.
Sandy Grave
Okay, if one goes to the alderman meeting, can they ask the board who is reponsible for the latest coverup, the city attorney still being on board although he is a minus and any and all questions pertaining to the usage of our tax dollars? Will we be able to hear what aldermen have to say without being cut off mid sentance?
4:34 It seems from your comment and others on the blog, you get no answers at board of aldermen meetings.
So if that is the case, call them by phone and ask the questions. The only way you can get cut off by phone is if you don't pay your phone bill.
I would not relent just because you have been cut off at the pass. Choose another route.
Sandy Grave
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