In case you may have missed the "brouhaha" reference the Civil Service Board V. Crestwood, well Please click here for comments from the Call!
This is presented without comments from me, as you should read it, and make up your own mind as to whom is right!
On another topic, I understand that a couple of ladies were not at all happy at the BOA meeting last night, and said so to the assembled masses! Now, anyone who knows me will tell you that I am all for anyone getting up to the podium to make themselves heard, and I applaud it.
That said, I am reminded of the old "Kingston Trio" song from the 60's by the title of, "It takes a worried man to sing a worried song!" Is there a reason for these people to be worried, and if so, what might that be?
From all that I have heard, the remarks were somewhat vitriolic toward members of the Board of Alderman, members of the Board, Civil Service, and even poor little old me! (Thanks for including me!)
Now that's all fine and dandy, but does anyone think this should have been done in front of a group of Boy Scouts awaiting their proclamations? I for one do not! What must these young lad's think of the spectacle put on by those that would silence citizens who want to see Crestwood doing the right thing?
To the Scouts that were there as well as their Scoutmasters, I apologize, this is NOT the Crestwood that I know and love! Please understand that part of the American Experience is civil discourse, but last night it went far beyond that, and I am truly sorry you had to witness it!
Tom Ford
NO. 546
On another topic, I understand that a couple of ladies were not at all happy at the BOA meeting last night, and said so to the assembled masses! Now, anyone who knows me will tell you that I am all for anyone getting up to the podium to make themselves heard, and I applaud it.
That said, I am reminded of the old "Kingston Trio" song from the 60's by the title of, "It takes a worried man to sing a worried song!" Is there a reason for these people to be worried, and if so, what might that be?
From all that I have heard, the remarks were somewhat vitriolic toward members of the Board of Alderman, members of the Board, Civil Service, and even poor little old me! (Thanks for including me!)
Now that's all fine and dandy, but does anyone think this should have been done in front of a group of Boy Scouts awaiting their proclamations? I for one do not! What must these young lad's think of the spectacle put on by those that would silence citizens who want to see Crestwood doing the right thing?
To the Scouts that were there as well as their Scoutmasters, I apologize, this is NOT the Crestwood that I know and love! Please understand that part of the American Experience is civil discourse, but last night it went far beyond that, and I am truly sorry you had to witness it!
Tom Ford
NO. 546
posted by Crestwood Independent at 18:20
90 Comments:
I seriously doubt if the Roberts Rule of Order were followed during the meeting. This is supposed to be an ordinance that the mayor and BOA are suppose to enforce. The president of the boa should have removed the mayor from running the meeting and maintained order.
Seems the mayor feels he needs to voice his opinion in a rather harsh manner. Anyone at the meeting can now see why citizens don't get up and ask questions, etc.
Another instance where the rules just don't have to be followed. I for one am quite embarrassed. Definately makes Crestwood look bad.
It was embarrassing, but you have to understand that if his honor, and I use the term losely, doesn't want to hear it nor talk about it, he shuts them down.
Did you ever notice that when an incident(s) happens, and the Administrator and politicians don't want to investigate, give answers nor listen to their constituents, they are always say THEY ARE INTERESTED in "moving the city forward".
Once again, the Mayor gets his way and saves his friends by being brash, argumentive and domineering.
He is embarrasssing and if I were the City Administrator, I would be embarrassed for myself-- after I received a pat on the back from the mayor after the meeting.
He reminds me of the former mayor of Overland. I only wish that we could televise these meeetings and let everyone share in our pain.
Business as usual folks.
Who were the two ladies and what did they have to say?
2:25 PM blogger: I assure you that both of them will be in the papers by next week!
Unless they wish to "out" themselves on the blog, I will ask you to please wait until then. (It may be in the South County Times tomorrow.)
What did they have to say? Well, from all that I hear it wasn't good.
Tom Ford
Those of you who have not attended a meeting of the Crestwood Board of Aldermen recently should do so if you want to better understand world history. After attending the September 9, 2008 BOA meeting, I felt I was watching the rise of the Third Reich.
- Anyone who does not agree with the mayor is labeled “biased” and “tainted”.
- Conversations in the parking lot of City Hall between elected officials and citizens WILL be observed and reported to the mayor.
- Attendance at open meetings held by a public board, especially by elected officials, WILL be duly noted and conclusions (rightly or wrongly) WILL be drawn.
- It appears that even emails between elected officials and citizens will be monitored.
At this particular meeting it was also suggested that two aldermen who swore to uphold the law, were being asked to resign by a citizen who is under investigation by the Missouri Ethics Commission for breaking the law.
I also observed a tussle over who runs the meetings, the aldermen or the mayor, with the understanding that if the mayor runs the meeting, dissent will be kept to a minimum.
One speaker bemoaned the “infighting” and “negativity” that seems to have come to Crestwood. Well yeah, people tend to get a little testy as they watch their civil rights evaporate and there are no checks and balances on power. A police state will do that to you. It seems like there is one set of laws for those who govern and another for those who are governed. So the next time you are stopped for speeding in the City of Crestwood, just tell the nice officer that yes, mistakes were made, you weren’t speeding “maliciously” and that you really need to move on, he/she will get over it. I’m sure there won’t be any negative consequences!
If iam correct, i believe it is permissible to video the boa meetings. anyone have a camera?
if you do, you'd better get Roy's "good side".
IMPOSSIBLE
Talk about over-dramatizing the situation. The majority of citizens dont give a rat's ass about this mistake, the civil service board, the city attorney, the mayor and all the rest of the nonsense that really does not mean a thing. They care more about taking care of the city's financial problems. The whole issue of the use of city staff for the proposition is ridiculous and everyone who is raising a stink about is even more ridiculous. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. Go take your indignation and channel it into something healthy and positive. Volunteer somewhere.
So it's all OK if city resources were used in an election? People I talk to are concerned. But heck, it it's OK with you and others and the city, then I say let's offer city resources for everyone. Personally, I want to borrow a police car for over the weekend! I'm sure the city and board won't mind!
Could I use Revers 911 to advertise my business? What do you say 2:10?
Oh, people care more about the city's financial problems? Great!
Then let's start making cuts!
1. Fleet reduction.
2. Animal control? Yes or No?
3. What about Sappington House?
4. Staff and department auditing?
2:10, I'm sure you'll be on the case!
2:10 Hooray. I would kiss you if I knew you. I am sooooo glad to hear somebody else tell these bunch of bozo's.
If Tom Fagan or Jimbo were still mayor, nothing would be said and if said, swept under the rug like I hear them say about what is happening now.
It is all about division among the politicians and those who wish they were.
Hey 2:10. You know the majority of the board are great at raising taxes, but do little good at anything else. Do you think they'll be able or willing to make the cuts and make the city somewhat efficient?
What about the mayor's behavior on the dias?
Do you care about that?
Come on 2:10, let's move forward!
Oh 2:10, do you put yo volunteer or are you just scolding other to do so? Please list the various places or causes for which you volunteer.
2:10 I agree with you! Our City has become a haven for law abiding citizens, who needs them? I'm sure you will agree with me that it is a large pain the in the collective neck to have all those speed limit signs around with Cops, who we pay for, enforcing them. You are right, what's a broken law, or code now and again? I'm sure you found it ok for the former C/A to date one of his employees, right? I am sure you wish we hadn't, in the words of Roy the Mayor, dodged a bullet when he paid her off to leave, right?
So who needs laws? We have larger things to worry about, but my question to you is, will we be able to trust what we are being told the solution to the problems are the truth? After all it's just a little lie, right?
2:35 take your anger and go volunteer at the Sappington House. They need volunteers. Take your positive energy over there. Thanks.
2:40 PM
Sandy is that you?
242--you need to direct that anger somewhere, too. Where would you like to help Crestwood? Please go sweep the Grant's farm trail section that goes through Crestwood. That would be great. Thanks.
2:42 PM, September 12, 2008
Oh I would but quite frankly, I think the Sappington House should be sold to a non-profit or some organization that can do something with it. The city would be better off without on its books.
Anyone I talked to who has gone there has been underwhelmed.
Poster 2:40, the question has been asked if an other mayor was doing this if it would be swept under the rug. You know what the answer was, YES, unless Don Greer was City Admin.
Interesting, situational ethics runs deep with some citizens of Crestwood.
Sounds pretty liberal to me
2:10 where are you? Where did you volunteer? What about those cuts?
You're concerned about the financial condition of the city, right?
Any one read this weeks issue of the Times this morning.
Ole Silver Tongue (AKA THE MAYOR) himself was at his best once again.
Jee, just what is he trying to cover up or who is he trying to protect?
Can you say ROYGATE?
2:40 I agree 100%.
The Civil Service Board is there to protect the employee, not to punish the employee. The Punishment of an employee is done under the Personnel Director who is the City Adm.
First, however, the issue has to be proven to be an illegal act. Therefore, it doesn't fall under the Civil Service Rules or the commission. The Civil Service Board can investigate a grievance filed by an employee but this has to do with whether or not the secretary did something illegal. That's not the same thing.
The Civil Service Board is there to protect the employee not punish or investigate the employee.
The City Administrator did what was correct. He and the City attorney met and made their decision. Take it or leave it.
Mr. Duchild thinks she has got all the answers but she doesn't. Further she is stepping out of her jurisdiction. The employee's participation in an illegal act is under the jurisdiction and punishable by her boss, who is the city administrator, who is in charge of ALL the employees, not just THE MAYOR'S SECRETARY.
The mayor has nothing to do with this. As I said before, the mayor and board members are trying to stay out of it and everybody keeps "sucking them in". We have a City Administrator form of government. We finally got a City Administrator who is fair, and I just can't wait to hear what you say about him. OMG, one can only imagine what is next to come out of your mouths.
You speak about hiding things under the rug now!!!! Why did J.R. really resign? Maybe Mr. TT can answer that one.
2:10 Pleez continue to blog, I beg of you. Continue blogging because it seems like there are only a few of us who can see the subtrifuge carried on by those who see only getting back at Roy and not the true object of their rath, which is harrassing the mayor their no. l goal. When they get tired of that, they use the aldermen and even now city employees to keep up the locomotion.
It's pitiful and sad and I am glad the the majority of the aldermen are smart enough not to be fooled by this balony.
I am really tired of all of this nonsense also. But that's what happens when you put politics first. Some people can't stand to loose.
They had their chance to put someone in as mayor this time, and didn't do it. Now they bitch.
2:58, maybe Sandy Grave would be a better person to ask your question.
I repeat, just who is the Mayor trying to protect, and what is he trying to cover up?
"It's pitiful and sad and I am glad the the majority of the aldermen are smart enough not to be fooled by this balony."
Well, you got me there. Most of the aldermen just want to raise taxes!
Does anyone know if any board members saw Biden this week?
3:13 The fact that no one ran against Roy in the last election means his behaviour and actions are OK with you?
Or do you mean because no one ran against him, we have this coming?
Explain.
"it seems like there are only a few of us who can see the subtrifuge carried on by those who see only getting back at Roy and not the true object of their rath, which is harrassing the mayor their no. l goal."
Excuse me but did you hear what was said by the mayor at the BOA meeting?????? Such disrespect for the BOA and citizens. BUT I GUESS THAT IS OK WITH YOU. Wonder why citizens don't attend or bring up their concerns at the meetings????
Besides, just try and get the city to enforce city ordinances by your neighbors! You will get no where. Seems to me that RULES ARE MADE TO BE BROKEN. Why have them??????
LOTS OF QUESTION MARKS????????????????????????????????????????????? OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!! SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!???????/WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO????????????
3:27-I bet you only care if the mayor is rude to the people that you AGREE with. If there are aldermen or citizens that disagree with you, then you dont care how they are treated by the mayor.
If you all think that the behavior of the mayor is ok, then I think you need medication.
3:27 Stop your blubbering. It's more than anyone can take.
You think that things are just happening for the first time now. All of a sudden it is all this mayor's fault.
You just never cared about it before. Where have you been. No mayor has satisfied all residents. You think that this mayor is going to somehow perform miracles.
Had this blog been around 10 to 15 years ago, you would have heard lots of people moaning and groaning about everything.
But now we have this blog and everybody wants to burn this mayor at the stake.
Be patient. Someone else will come along and fill the mayor's shoes some day and when it happens, I guarantee you that you irrate bloggers will just continue where you left off with the next one.
In the meantime, you can act all holly and honest and upstanding, but most of you don't go to the meetings to check anything out yourselves and rely on second and third hand information on this blog. You base your position on this blog, and nothing else.
What do you want from this mayor? Perfection? Never got it before and never will. Nobody can give that to you.
It is scary the way you talk about the mayor and no one else. Just him. Just keep up making a commotion about everything that is his fault, and make yourself think you care about Crestwood. Nobody believes you care. Why? Your hatred is too obvious. And you only know what people tell you. They get you going and boy you just jump right on the bandwagon like a bunch of sheep.
What I see coming down in Crestwood, is very dreadful and if this verbal battle doesn't stop,I can see what will happen. One of you nut cases, will be coming up to city hall and doing something crazy. Look what happened to a crazed resident in Kirkwood. I read some of the comments and if I were to anaylze them, some of you are right on the brink. You are a bunch of sickos. No way would I go to a board meeting with people like you out there.
And by your words, you breed more hate and contempt every time you make a comment. You are out to do nothing but peek the anger out of people. Is it worth it?
You people have absolutely lost your mind. Anybody that hates the mayor as much as you do, might end up taking on the whole aldermanic chambers. I don't want to be there when that happens. Let the reporters attend.
Wait until our city goes under if things don't get better. You might wish you would have voted for a tax increase. Wait until the County takes over.
We have had it too good for too long and you don't appreciate it.
4:19 and I think you are certified crazy and need a lobatamy.
4:02 I love you please stay on the blog cause I need you to show me there is someone else out there that can see through the maze. The maze of bad temperments who will do nothing but feed the flames of contempt for the mayor or anyone connected with him; i.e. the city attorney, employees, department heads; they don't care who they throw under the bus.
Sounds like the days of P. Pilate. Get out the cross and nails.
4:02
4:52
4:53
4:59
Why are all of (if you really are 4 different posters, which I doubt) you ok with the breaking of City and State laws? What are YOU trying to up?
Who are YOU trying to protect?
Why are YOU ok with the mean spirited treatment of your fellow citizens and elected Aldermen by our Mayor?
Why are YOU so protective of the Mayor?
There will be at the latest count, 6 Aldermanic seats up next April. How many of YOU four posters will be filling for the jobs so that you can insure the Mayor will be able to "bring Crestwood back"?
If you do so, don't forget you have to take an oath of office and use your name.
4:59. I love you to. When and where can we hook up? Some time soon!
I have this need that I think only some one as smart as you can fulfill, if you get my drift.
I hope you are as open minded and liberal in person as you sound to be from your postings.
signed,
Loving Liberal in Crestwood,
where the ends justify the means.
Who are you that doesn't give your name? Are you an authority on anything other than clogging up the system because it isn't composed of those you prefer on the dais?
Nobody is protecting the mayor. We are just tired of you beating a dead horse.
We would need a whole fortress to protect the mayor and several aldermen against people like you. You threats about the next election don't bother me in the least.
Why can't you understand that we have a different perspective than you do. You choose to see things differently than we do.
Isn't that the American Way. Paranoia is telling you that we are protecting the mayor. What we want is for you to shut up and start thinking about Crestwood. Why get your shorts out of joint because we have a difference of opinion than yours.
What specific laws has the mayor broken. Can you spell them out like TT says. "where is your proof"? What has he be found guilty of. Maybe if you were on the dais, and tried to make Alderman Miquel understand your point, you might get tired and impatient too. Plus you may as well pack a late night snack, and breakfast for the next day because he will argue with you about a bar of soap. He wouldn't even try to see anybody else's point but his. Most aldermen are tired of it.
Has Miquel talked to the city attorney? Has he spoke with the city administrator? Or is he on a witch hunt along with Neider? What compells him to keep this up? Why confuse him with the facts, he already has his mind made up.
It sounds to me like if some of these people want to dispute anything at a board of aldermen meeting, it would take three days and three nights before the meeting would be adjourned. Even if they got out their coloring book and crayons and you drew pictures, you couldn't convince them of anything other than their views.
But you get all upset when I give you mine? Sounds like the democratic way to me Huh?
Again, tell me what laws have been broken? Are you an attorney, do you know municipal law, what makes you think everything you heard is true. Did you investigate the rules and codes yourself; or are you just listening to what you want to hear?
The breaking of laws is a dead horse and your tired of it?
My!
5:57 The end justifies the means? You must be talking about the other administration. Don't see any of that here. Another Country heard from. OMG we are on a roll now.
A couple of points:
1. Sandy, it's Miguel with a g, not Miquel.
2. "Wait until our city goes under if things don't get better. You might wish you would have voted for a tax increase. Wait until the County takes over." If the city is run like this, it might be better if the county took over. Crestwood got by over the many years cause the plaza brought in boat loads of sales tax revenue. Now that the ship is sailed or at least temporarily sunk, the boa and administration is impotent to do anything except raise taxes. Eco development is weak at best.
6:21 What laws are broken. Name them. Tell me. Who said they were broken. You. We don't believe idiots. What laws are broken. You have to prove that. Do the Civil Service rules prove it. Tell me what laws are broken. You listen to a lot of stupidity. You are a one man, spewed with hatred who made it your mission to smear this mayor and anybody else that gets in the way of your sociopathic nature; like someone else who ruled this city. Nothing more.
You want to take this to the supreme court. Put the money up and do it yourself if you think so.
I want to see you become the laughing stock.
6:29 blogger:
The reason an inquiry was asked of the Ethics Commission:
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c100-199/1150000646.htm
"Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 115
Election Authorities and Conduct of Elections
Section 115.646
August 28, 2007
Public funds expenditure by political subdivision officer or employee, prohibited--personal appearances permitted.
115.646. No contribution or expenditure of public funds shall be made directly by any officer, employee or agent of any political subdivision to advocate, support, or oppose any ballot measure or candidate for public office. This section shall not be construed to prohibit any public official of a political subdivision from making public appearances or from issuing press releases concerning any such ballot measure."
6:42 OK so far we agree; an inquiry was made. The blogger (I believe one person doing this whole thing) already has the mayor guilty without an inquiry?
Once again, there is no "wait and see" what is found out; not in this town and not by people with harmful objectives.
I believe there is only one person doing all of this damage to the mayor first of all, as well as damage to anybody connected with him. I feel that this person has gained ground with several others and has convinced them to join in the massacre.
This person doesn't have a life outside of his insatiable appetite to do wrong to the mayor; I think it is a vendetta, and I think that person is sick, real sick.
If it walks like a duck, etc. as it has been stated on the blog.
If you want to be spoon fed everything instead of doing your own research, by all means please continue your crusade.
As for me, I will wait until I hear something from the investigation. Anybody who has any sense would do the same.
Rather than listen to one hit after another about the mayor, don't you think it's a little bit too much mayor bashing one comment after another? Don't you wonder if it isn't all coming from the same person?
Or maybe you just don't think period.
7:37
You tired of carrying the mayor's water yet?
4:52 9/12
Well all I can say is if that happens and someone goes crazy, Tom had better have some pretty good insurance backing him up because the precedent has already been set with the case of the mother who posted on the My Space page and cuused that young girl to commit suicide. This blog is no different.
Not at all the same thing, sorry!
Big difference, no lies are being told about Roy that could be used against those who post them,...The evidence to support this is found in ever weeks issue of all 3 local papers.
Sorry.
This blog represents all that is wrong with Crestwood. Lies, anger, long-term resentment, grudges and slander.
6:11 PM blogger: Your mistaken my friend, it DOES represent a forum for the "great unwashed" to speak minus the slings and arrows of those who would silence them!
There are many, many things wrong with Crestwood, but the Citizens speaking their minds is not one of them!
Those that feel they are the "movers and shakers" of Crestwood have tried all sorts of threats, and comments to shut this blog down. But, if you know anything about me, or my family, you know it will not happen!
Either read it, post on it, or leave it, it's your choice, but please, do not tell us that it "represents all that is wrong with Crestwood," because it isn't!
Tom Ford
"part of the American Experience is civil discourse" Tom Ford
This blog is not civil discourse. Not matter what you say, it's not.
6:49 PM blogger: Well at least your constant!
Your wrong as usual, and if you have a problem with it, simple, DON'T READ IT!
Better yet, PRINT YOUR REAL NAME FOR ALL TO SEE! Until you do that, you are just a waste of band width, and not to be taken seriously!
Tom Ford
To:Sept. 12th 6:16 pm blogger
At least show some respect and spell the aldermen's last name correctly
N I E D E R not N E I D E R
3 years ago I bet poster 6:49 supported everything posted on this blog. Why the change, the same things this blog demanded of Crestwood leaders then is being demanded now and now the Mayor is Roy.
Poster is simply someone who wants the truth out as long as the truth does not point out Roy's failures.
I have nothing against questiong the government of our city. I am against people making slanderous statements, furthuring rumours, not checking their facts, naming names with no proof and making accusations. That is not civil discourse. That is not positive. That is not the right thing to do. I am neither for or against Roy. I do not know the man. I do not automatically believe his intentions are all terrible and corrupt. I also do not know Tom Ford nor do I believe that his intentions are horrible. What I do know for sure, is the discourse and communication on this blog is negative and toxic. I support those that attend meetings, ask questions and then draw conclusions based on the facts they have gathered in a civil, intelligent way.
I have nothing against questiong the government of our city. I am against people making slanderous statements, furthuring rumours, not checking their facts, naming names with no proof and making accusations. That is not civil discourse. That is not positive. That is not the right thing to do. I am neither for or against Roy. I do not know the man. I do not automatically believe his intentions are all terrible and corrupt. I also do not know Tom Ford nor do I believe that his intentions are horrible. What I do know for sure, is the discourse and communication on this blog is negative and toxic. I support those that attend meetings, ask questions and then draw conclusions based on the facts they have gathered in a civil, intelligent way.
10:41 I am very grateful to hear your words; however, going to a meeting where these vicious bloggers convene may end up like the City of Kirkwood's meeting did.
Same situation, someone hatefully angry at the mayor who decided to take out everybody.
Great comment but don't expect anyone on this blog to believe a word of it. There mind is already made up don't confuse them by telling the truth.
There are so many boils on the current nature of politics that one has to be in an insulated cave not to realize there are 2 kinds of politicians iincluding here in our city: the proverbial big shots, who have a personal agenda and relish the authority they presume is theirs; and the few who actually want to advance their constituancy and have no ulterior motives, but whose voice is relegated to 3 minute segments or whose mikes are shut off by the puzzling actions of a seemingly confused or irritated Mayor. Crestwood has historically had this kind of mix and its imbalance continues to be to its detriment. And now it includes Aldermen whose courage is measured by abstaining from important votes. And aldermen affiliated with off shoot groups with private agendas whose current misteps are making further skeptics of us all and whose efforts for the 2nd time to pass a tax increase raised enough doubt to be defeated.
This recent group, the same group as last time, worked to put a positive face on a tax increase. However, they assumed it was ok,although a private group, to use the CITY reverse 911 service and the CITY bulletin to advertise meetings. Unless their candles were under an airtight bushel, they and all city employees and officials know this is simply NOT OKAY. To assume it was, is incredibly presumptious. This wool has been pulled way too thin. This then, another example of a city misfiring. If they are paying for a city room for the meetings, what would make them assume they could present it as a city called meeting? What an amazing insult to the very voters to whom they appealed. (And now a member of this very committee wants to be appointed to the City Civil Service Board)Whoo There Horsey! This is a no go! This is Crestwood again at its worst! This is ethics and integrity eyeballing our tomorrow. Looks like the CALL newspaper was on target with its questionning of the ability of a city attorney of Crestwood. It becomes ever apparent that our city is only as strong as our weakest link! The Sunshine Law has been tested way too often in this city. We know its limitations. Does the City Attorney? Or is the definition flexible?
Ah yes, Crestwood is no exception to the various kinds of politicians, the good, the bad and the ones who abstain. Continual headlines over the last 3 administrations vividly describe how it is. This city has these variations of politicians who render the climb back to fiscal competence in slow to stop mode. Check voting patterns, minutes and the CALL from the dais at the BOA Meetings and immediately discover the wrath of city gods. Just like on this blog, civil war, retailiation, and egotism prevail AND prohibit the city and its resident taxpayers from realizing the city's potential. It takes team players, and Crestwood has issues with this concept. This city even has X-officials and city employees chiming in to keep the radar high on the in-fighting and inequities of local leadership.Then pitching in are the usual suspects each possessed with their egos and agendas and self importance doing nothing more than dismantling the city bedrock. Wasting the time, talents, hope, money and property value of residents sickened by headlines and bickering.
Headlines over the last 5-6 years andas of late are so embarrassing that if we had city stickers, we would likely rip them off. Working through the revenue and budget issues sensibly and as a team is, of course, a fiscal and should be a democratic necessity. Our city has not had the maximum benefit of this. Instead officials who have a bent for finances and have questions and issues pertaining to the budget are restricted on their board input, even ridiculed publicly. Hard to have closure when we have had officials interested in using influence to build a private swimming pool in an inappropriate place in the backyards of unsuspecting residents; in rebuilding a city hall to accomodate a 14.5 M$ police facility (4 sq. mile city with 12,000 residents) while using a 1.5 M$ LOC followed by a 3.5M$ LOC needed to pay the bills. Thus making it necessary to put the new facility in escrow to the lender along with Public Works. Sure this is history, but it is a perfect and truthful example of Crestwood Municipal Government gone awry. Along with incredible legal bills and huge payoffs to 2 former city administrators, secretarys and a city finance officer and several harrassment lawsuits and an expensive software package and lessons, never utilized, you tell me - when residents must take to the streets with a referendum/signatures to halt an expensive unecessary city hall and when the City is relegated to the use of a city Charter doing its job and a obvious clandestine effort is made to make some very interesting changes which would allow the architects of this movement to change the term limits chapter so they could run again. Again, residents, rebelled to this pure political inertia.
If one questions the brand new entire fleet of Police Cars, the number of white shirts in the police department, the number of city cars issued to city employees (probably with unrestricted gas allowances) and the fact that a new ordinance was passed to allow they don't have to live in the city, it seems that resident pocketbooks are relatively unimportant. With this thought simmering in our minds, no wonder a no vote for a tax increase stands firmly for NO. The strings attached to a YES vote obviously cannot happen at Crestwood City Hall. One might even wonder at the new police dispatching system, needed update of course,but closeby cities are sharing this kind of dispatching. Any reason a short of money city not expecting a windfall could not toss this kind of idea around? When the fire and police and administration of cities continually outclass and outspend the city capabilities, it becomes a challenge to the budget and the patience and pockets of voters. These reigns need to be scrutinized and innovations made by officials with the time and energy to do just that. Ones who invite resident input, not just ones whose interest stops at throwing bricks.
So, Crestwood remains with drawn swords. Politics again rearing its head. Yet another new City Administrator, a former city employee, trying to bring a troubling situation into balance without prejudice and trying to convince the voters it's just another brush fire. Uh,Sure it is!!! Unless of course, this time, voters and headlines and integrity come into play. An ethics determination yet to be made regarding police department raises not conforming to the "clean" test and a duly appointed Civil Service Board (concerned and dedicated appointees) being denied participation which falls into their jurisdiction. And, this board, by the way, is the one a member of the Tax Increase Group currently under intense scrutiny, wants to join. And, I presume residents are to try to understand that there are no other choices which would better fit this position. Does this city need more question marks, more politics, more headlines? This person, if community concern is paramount, should quietly serve on the other board they are on and contribute in this more reasonable fashion at this time. This power play is totally out of line.
So as we forward to another day and another bunch of angry blogs and input from the peanut sections, I wonder how many of you have made perfectly clear to your alderman and your Mayor and your neighbors that it is time this city turns a page and gets serious about its future and the impression it is making on developers and businesses viewing us. Would you hurry to sink your dollars here considering the political stink that seems to prevail? If this concerns you, why don't you get on the phone, or computer or stationary and make it soundly clear what you expect of your aldermen. They are paid for their services and if they don't like your input or the time and ethics required for the job, it is time for them to leave. They should be easily intimidated, it is your money and your city, too. PAY ATTENTION!
10:41 AM, September 15, 2008
"I support those that attend meetings, ask questions and then draw conclusions based on the facts they have gathered in a civil, intelligent way."
Going to meetings will NOT get you the answers. Try it.
"There mind is already made up don't confuse them by telling the truth."
11:19 AM, September 15, 2008
The truth is that rules were broken and apparently you believe it is okay.
12:12 Well gosh darn! I think that since you have mentioned all of the issues and have them in check, you, for sure, should run for mayor of this city. You got several months to plan.
Appoint everyone whom you feel deserve to be appointed as department heads and gosh even fire employees that you consider bad by your standards. That is if there are any left.
Pick those persons who have not made any mistakes in the city in your mind, or voted for or fought for an issue, that you disagreed with. What a bunch of sanctimeoneous bull!!.
And while you are burning your bra or your jockey shorts, make sure you explain to those of us you have thrown into this mix, why some of us have been included. Like those who have tried to do what is right and tried to shed an ounce of knowledge on this blog. Like those of us who are only trying to be committed to Crestwood by comments void of vengeance and slander.
Since all knowledge comes to you in the form of a funnel-cloud from the heavens telling you exactly who is bad and who is good and who can take us from here to renewal in our city, why don't you just step in and put your mouth to better use than to criticize everybody who has spoken out.
When you begin campaigning for mayor, you make sure you only pick those that please you, if that is possible.
You are another one who puts everyone in the same bag and decided that there is no separation between those of us you try to do good, versus those who continue to maligne everyone but yourself.
4:08 AM, September 11, 2008
12:12 PM, September 15, 2008
Yes it is embarrassing living in Crestwood. Besides the turmoil at city hall, have you noticed the number of houses that are rentals??
Seems our city is going down hill.
I for one, am sick to my stomach over the inferred threat 1:19 posted today.
That poster is saying that if we get too angry with City Hall and express it here on this blog, there may be a shooting at a Board meeting.
That is not what happened in Kirkwood. If the poster promoting this scare view point would read the newspaper reports about the shooter you would see that his actions were not the results of a blog. His actions were not the result of a cover up being run by the mayor. His actions were not the result of a mayor's heavy handedness in the BOA meetings.
Read the accounts what took place and there is no connection between the two cities who end their name in wood. This is simply a scare tactic hoping to divert the citizens honest desire to know what the truth is and for our laws to be obeyed.
If there is nothing there, then there should be no problem in an investigation. If there is nothing there then why is the Mayor so defensive? If there is nothing there then why does the Mayor attack Aldermen in public for asking questions?
Ask yourself that question the next time you read a report from an Alderman meeting. Go to the next meeting and see for yourself what we have allowed to become our mayor.
1:57, Was not surprised that you would respond post haste to that blog that actually was general in its overall message and hit on points totally relevant to the city. Your immediate response, not surprisingly, does not seem to have given due time to assimilate its earnest message. It wasn't vengeful unless of course your definition of vengeful is ever on your cuff and laying in wait for use. That blog does not put everyone in the same bag. The city could not survive under those circumstances. And by no means did it seem like sanctinimous bull, but rather fell in the realm of sincerity. The funnel cloud to which you refer arrives in the form of local newspapers that have the habit of telling it like it is, conversations of those who attend BOA Meetings and discretionary grains of salt observed on this blog. In my observations, Crestwood is a very special community with great heart and potential and residents and to a sustainable degree dedicated officials. The city has challenges, now, that require strict attention to detail. This would include expectations on all of us to go the extra mile on a note of harmony (minus the drag of political pettiness) that does not detour from basic integrity, the lack of which too often leaves a shadow on the city and lands on front pages of newspapers. If you cannot accept the fact that the recent deeds reported upon and being questioned and making headlines are cause for concern, you are putting, in your words, neither your mouth nor head to its best use. Surely you have more to contribute to your city than this.
10:41 AM blogger: Do you really think this is the "same situation?"
The citizens who blog here do it because they LOVE their City, and they want to make it better for future generations, Mr. Thornton did not!
Mr. Thornton believed in his sick mind that the City and all it's citizens wanted to deny him his rights because he was African American!
He believed that all of his citations were the work of people holding him back from greatness because he was African American!
In other words he believed the bravo sierra he had been spreading for many years. I knew two of the people he murdered very well, one had tried (in Vane) to help him, so please don't even think of equating these two very different subjects!
Furthermore, the people who blog here are vastly more intelligent than most, and as such do not feel the need for havoc! Do not be so foolish as to think that because they want open, and honest Government, they will ever resort to anything but peaceful assembly!
Please remember that violence and profane language is the refuge of the uneducated, and dim witted. I am glad that we have no such bloggers here!
Read the Federalist Papers some time and find out just how "spirited" the discourse was in the chambers of our founding fathers!
Tom Ford
12:112 Blogger: Here, here! Well said of true and faithful citizen!
Folks that is a very well thought out and articulated post, no?
Keep em coming!
Tom Ford
3:55 Thanks for your answer. My problem with your words are not that they are all wrong but not all OK either. My problem also is that some of these things were not defended on this blog a long time ago.
People on this blog, only want to speak of the here and now, when there were things going on before now that needed to be supervised and were not, as you so stated.
They were never addressed and covered up and why? I'll tell you why!
The reason these people don't want to remember the past transgressions is because they were part of them. And these are the very people screaming about what is going on now. They have made a feeble attempt to disgrace this mayor because they disapproved of him from the very beginning and their candidate lost. They had no problem before with the past mayor and board members because they were board members.
Their motives for putting their drival on the blog is to discredit this mayor when the ethics commission hasn't even done anything yet or make a determination. That is part of what I disagree with. You also have made your own decision. And what did you base it on? Other people's opinions.
Until that happens, everybody on this blog should watch what they say until matters are clearly defined no matter how they personally feel.
Also, the Civil Service Board is suppose to be there in case an employee has to file a grievance to protect employees. They have no authority to investigate illegal actions by an employee - the city administrator/city attorney are there for that.
Still and all, Ms. Duchild and her confrontational ways wants to express her views when she is not in a position to condemn an employee for illegal activity. The mayor never let her have her say because she is ready to put the gloves on and fight about something she knows nothing about.
She is suppose to be there and her board to protect employees from politics; not be integrated into something illegally done by an employee. The city administrator's actions are correct. That is part of his job. The city administrator is in charge of personnel. Like it or not. If there was no city administrator there, sorry, but the civil service board cannot superimpose his authority on themselves.
If something illegal is done, the Civil Service Board has no authority to fire her, interview people, or define anything. period. Her boss, the city administrator does. I would love to see the Civil Service Board try to investigate an illegal incrimination. It is not in their venue. In illegal activities, the charter is involved as well as the city attorney and his interpretation of it and the city administrator.
The Civil Service Board needs to stay out of it.
4:32 PM Blogger: First of all to whom do you refer as "HER?"
Second: "Still and all, Ms. Duchild and her confrontational ways wants to express her views when she is not in a position to condemn an employee for illegal activity. The mayor never let her have her say because she is ready to put the gloves on and fight about something she knows nothing about."
I beg to differ here as Mrs. Duchild DOES know of what she speaks! She has never stated that she had the authority to "fire her" (who is that?) Nor has she said anything more that she wishes to "interview" possible witnesses.
I believe you would agree that the City investigating itself is surely not the answer, and the Ethics board has nothing to do with police raises or promotions, so just who are you protecting when you use the word "HER?" I think we would all like to know.
Tom Ford
Sandy (aka 4:32),
Why is it that whenever you say nasty things you don't want to sign your name?
Curious
If you feel Martha is so bad, ask your self who appointed her in the 1st place? Why it was Roy.
Dear Foe(s):
This is now the second or third time I have been recently attacked on this blog.
When things are said that are contrary to what you like or feel, it is automatically me speaking anonymously.
5:17 pm. Should I feel important that you know me so well that you can tell when I am nasty or nice?. Having the ability to know when I sign and when I don't? Sorry but I don't agree.
As far as nasty goes, you are the definition of it. As for myself, I will say what I want, when I want to say it, unless Tom wants to just cut me off which is his privilege and I have been told so by him.
I can see the option you take which is to hide behind (anonymous). And that is OK and accepted isn't it?. Further since you already seem to have made a decision on what I do with my comments, why bring the question up?
No need to put me on the defensive because I don't care what you think you know. You don't sign your name and you are nasty all the time. Who cares?
I don't like who you are or what you are doing, I don't like any of it, I have said so and you all have just as much as told me where I can go with my comments. What more do you want from me? Sorry if you think just because I disagree with you that every negative comment comes from me.
I respectfully request that unless you tell me who you are, I will respond no more.
Sandy Grave
If HER is innocent, then why doesn't HER proclaim HER innocence with a written or verbal statement at a board of alderman meeting so HER won't feel so persecuted.
-Miss Jackson if you're 'nasty'
Tom, who is Mr. Thronton. 10:41 never mentioned a Mr. Thornton. Explain
7:18 Tell Tom Ford who HER is. He doesn't seem to know by his comment at 4:48. Clue him in, if you will.
To answer your question about HER 7:18; why should anyone including HER, as an employee of the city, have to make a statement at the board of aldermen meeting to plead HER innocence when the board of aldermen doesn't control personnel.
The answer to the question regarding the secretary at city hall who was accused of illegally participating in the Prop. l committee was given to the mayor and board of aldermen by the city administrator at the board of aldermen meeting. So why should SHE/HER need to say anything at all?
7:18 Who is Miss Jackson? Maybe when Tom tells us who is Mr. Thornton is from his comment at 10:41 we can play match maker and hook the two up.
7:51 PM blogger: The Mr. Thornton you refer to is one "cookie thornton," Murderer! (lower case intended!)
8:33 PM blogger: I know who "her" is, but I wanted the poster to "out" "her!"
Tom Ford
Sandy has already "outed " her in past posts. Other posters have used her name.
10:43 Dear Whoever you are, and Tom Ford. You sure don't have any problem saying my name do you?
Please be advised that The Call Newspaper's Burke Wasson stated her name (the secretary) in the newspaper back in July when the Proposition issue was originally mentioned at a Board of Aldermen meeting by the alderman.
To set the record straight 10:43 PM, I read the article and I got that name from the newspaper article in black and white, or else I wouldn't know it and to this day, I never met her.
Had I not read the article, I would have not known her name or anything about the issue with her and the newsletter.
Others on this blog have mentioned THE NAME, Tom, so if you want to blame someone for saying HER NAME, anybody who read The Call saw it.
You think if you do not specifically write her name on a comment, that it makes a difference in either getting slammed or not getting slammed with a lawsuit? What lawyer told you that?
All the people at city hall know who does the newsletter, it was no big secret after the alderman spoke about the contents of the newsletter at the board of aldermen meeting.
That said, I hope she does whatever she has to do if people don't leave her alone from now on.
How does that grab you?
Sandy Grave
11:48. I thought you promised not to post ever again? Please, be of your word!
11:48 PM Blogger: Well Sandy, my guess is that it's up to the Ethics Commission from now on out.
Let's all wait for the results to be made public by them, and then we will know exactly who was responsible.
Tom Ford
Look, if there was nothing done wrong, if there is nothing to hide, then there is nothing to be afraid of the in the results of ANY investigation.
Right?
So it stands to reason that if there was something done wrong, and there is something to hide, then there are reasons to be afraid of the results of any investigation.
Right?
12:34 PM 9/16
I totally agree with you. So why are so many people on the blog accusing the mayor before the investigation is finished?
8:08 am seems to want me to stay off the blog. I thought about it and I have deliberated and decided that since he or she wants me to dry up and blow away, I will stay on the blog until Tom Ford tells me to split.
Thanks and have a nice day.
Sandy Grave
Whoever "HER" is and if "Her" works at city hall and has for a time and does not know that using the city sponsored bulletin for private cause is wrong or did not have the gumption to take a minute and check it out, well perhaps "Her" should fess up and admit to a mistake. Most would agree this falls in the category of check it out first. Now, if the City Attorney said "no problem" then the CALL is correct - time to pack it in and resign. Way too many blunders surrounding this instance. It happened, it was wrong, it was avoidable, and we have every right to expect better!!! Blame is not all that painful, apologizing isn't either. It avoids words like coverup, etc. over a matter that is solvable.
3:55 right your are, but we will never find out if the Mayor and 6 of 8 aldermen refuse to investigate what happened and rely on instead, a stonewall approach. That's what 12:34 is saying.
No harm, no foul but right now we are "playing" without a referee.
3:55 Is that what The Call said. "If the city attorney said no problem, she should pack up and resign?" Or am I not understanding your meaning.
Can you tell me what issue that was in because I don't remember reading it.
Was it an editorial perhaps.
If it is an editorial, to me that is just another opinion and there are several of those around including yours and mine.
Please advise.
Sandy Grave
If the Mayor is half the MAN he thinks and claims he is, would he let one of his female employees take a hit for him?
Look at his recent treatment of Martha Duchild, someone he appointed to her current position and now that she is trying to do what the position states she should do, he is going to get rid of her.
Count the number of female employees, from hourly to staff, who have left Crestwood City Hall in the 3 years this Mayor has been in office.
What is this Mayor's problem with females?
Folks, I have read most of the entries on this thread, and I caution you to be careful of falling into the trap of fighting with each other!
This is an old political trick used to divide the masses, and conquer from within. If your fellow blogger does not agree with you, so what? Take it for what it's worth and rebut if you will, but be civil when you do!
Please remember that there are people now that would divert your thinking reference the Ethics Commission, but don't be fooled! Keep a steady eye on the target, take a deep breath, let out half of it, and BLOG!
Tom Ford
We have a relatively useless Charter and Civil Service Code; a Mayor, 8 Aldermen, numerous city employees and appointed boards. A veritable stew of discention and/or progress, depending on the political mix and ego exertion, cooking away over issues and politics 24/7. Nothing new about that!
We also have a new C/A who right out of the gate is ready to leap to a foregone conclusion based on what, 2 months experience? How many C/A's have we gone through anyway? And how many have been vetted for the grace of neutrality?
Two current happenings have created a "fair, ah heck, enormous" amount of concern; ah heck anger, as they rightfully need; ah heck, demand a credible explanation, for which there has "little, ah heck none" forthcoming because these happenings took place in the "shadows, ah heck, dark" by Casper, and have joined the municipal lumps under the carpet. Nothing new about that!
"Let's get on with city business says an Alderman"... hey, this is city business, sir - business as usual .... Put some miles between this issue and others, find some sort of blame to put on a couple of aldermen for wanting to see what is under the rock and for heavens sake bury it - deep! Color it bias, interference, representing the constituancy, whatever, run it up the pole! Nothing new about that!
Indeed, let's shoot the messengers who in representing the side of truth and ethics and probably at least 72% of the people, seek answers. Nothing unusual about that!
Let's render the appointed CS Board which seeks some "SUNSHINE" on the matters useless and insert in its place the same kind of toxic politics from the past this city cannot seem to move beyond; in fact which seems to have rented a storage facility to store. You know the toxic politics of secrecy and a smidge of deception along with some of the "surely you don't deserve or expect explanations" content. Nothing new about this!
Sure, business as usual, let's call questionning Aldermen biased because they have their nerve; they want clarity and consideration. Lets accuse them of trying to overthrow the government. Actually, let's have a shootout on the dais so the press and public can see the real state of affairs in Crestwood. You know the "State of Denial," the "War Within" where if you try to interject ethics and logic and integrity into the governing body, you become "accused" of something resembling heresy. And God forbid if in the doing, you cross the throne, you become a headline. Makes you want to invest in this town, sure 'nough.
While we are at it, let's let the other C/A be part of the process as we know this kind of help and sound judgement has historically provided all the unbiased legal heft needed to keep the carpet flat. Yep, the one the newspaper kinda suggested might need to move along.
Somehow, it seems, that when a private group is allowed to use a municipal bulletin and reverse 911 system to announce their self called meetings, and this is later determined to be a benefit and a priviledge not provided the general consituancy - my lordy, do we have another Watergate here? What happened to the gloves used by the perps? Is this the perfect crime? Are there just to many syllables in the words "I made a mistake in judgement or I goofed?"
As for the police raises. Presumably in municipal gov't, rules are made to be followed, and BOA's are to be privvy to all things financial pertaining to the city including salaries. When an official asks for some sun on the matter; for an explanation of this deviation and the reception of his querry lowers the room temperature to freezing - well ya darn betcha it is time to call in the Ethics Squad. But let me guess, wouldn't it have been a lot easier to have just fessed up and promised never to do it again? Seems Crestwood city government is back into hiding behind each others skirts, tattered tho they be.
This city is not a vodoo doll. Or is it?
AMEN BROTHER, AMEN!
Wait till the public reads this weeks issue of the Call Newspaper. His Honor is quoted in a long article, attacking those who disagree with him.
I'll let the readers decided for them selves about our Mayor after reading this issue.
Guess it is a voodoo doll! Apparently no response to this blog so far, responding to the CALL article which exposed the glaring city flaws left bloggers, means bloggers agree with the CALL.
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