This weeks Suncrest Call newspaper has a very insightful look into the "Man who would be King" on page one! Yep it's a "one on one" interview with ROY!
In case you haven't received the paper yet, I have included a copy for you, all you have to do is click on the header!
To say that I am appalled, shocked, chagrined, and disappointed to read his remarks reference the "infiltration" of the Civil Service Board by Alderman Nieder, and Miguel would never do it justice! Let's look at the word "infiltration," Hollywood used it for spy movies, and WW2 flicks featuring the OSS, and British spy's. Lately it has been used by the National politicians when they complain about their rivals, but "infiltration" in Crestwood?
Just how does an elected by the people Alderman "infiltrate" a meeting anyway? Are we to believe they had a fake beard, nose and glasses on when the were there?
Can anyone honestly say they don't know what Alderman Nieder, or Miguel look like (even with the disguise?) Your Honor, is it possible they, as ELECTED OFFICIALS, have an interest in doing what they swore an oath to do? I know I am just a dumb a$$ from the wrong side of Watson Rd, but you sure lost me on that one your Honor.
Moving right along, since when does a citizen of Crestwood with the credentials of Mrs. Martha Duchild need to "be almost non-existent" (your words Mayor, not mine?) Furthermore you said "I've had problems with Martha Duchild a good while now." Really, well you were the one that fought our retired genus from Ward Two for her appointment, remember? Get used to the fact that you will never be able to outclass Martha Duchild sir, and please listen to her, as she knows where of she speaks!
Now, I know that your very busy running our fair city, and that you know everything that happens at City hall (Who authorised the newsletter, and reverse 911?) But you may well have missed that fact that strong women have been on the political scene for some time now! Believe it or not, there is a lady named Sarah Palin who is running for V.P! If I were you I would thank your lucky stars she dosen't live here!
In closing, please tell Alderman Roby that this is not "a local blog," it's the "Crestwoodindependent.org!" We need all the publicity we can get!
UPDATE TO MY POST! Your Honor, I forgot to remind you that ALL if the meeting's that your various board's hold are open and fully accessible to the public! That said, why should any alderman not attend a P&Z, Fire Board, Police Board, Sign Board, Civil Service Board, Park Board, and whatever else they may wish to attend to further their knowledge of City operations?
Again, I am at a loss as to why you feel this is "subterfuge, and infiltration?" I think this is the mark of a good Alderman who cares about this City and his constituents!
Tom Ford
NO. 550
posted by Crestwood Independent at 17:22
59 Comments:
I started to take notes on what I would post here but am still reeling in utter shock over the Mayor's ego driven control complex.
But I guess the smart thing to do is wait for the Roy defenders to trot out their version of what the Mayor said in defense of the indefensible.
Maybe letters to newspapers are a better idea.
tim
trueblood
How can they give a version of what the mayor said? It was a one on one interview. The only people there I'm guessing were the mayor and the reporter. And I know that Call reporter carries a tape recorder with him everywhere he goes, so he's got the evidence if the mayor denies saying any of these things.
I was impressed with the editorial in the paper. Having Eckrich and the civil service board investigate is a nice compromise. And the Call is right. Ugly politics have gotten way out of hand. That can be blamed on both sides. The mayor's ego and penchant for secrecy is preventing anything from being settled. And the civil service board's obvious bias is preventing the city from trusting them.
The Bias Be Darned, the leaders of our city have an obligation to get to the bottom of our concerns regardless of the outcome. Failure to do so gives the logical appearance of a cover up of something much darker, when in fact there may be nothing.
The interview is shocking on many fronts. To read that the Mayor feels the breaking of the Sunshine law is ok because some Alderman may say something that could damage the City or hurt an employee is pure crap! That is nothing more than muzzling the voice of Citizens representatives.
We the voters need to see, read and hear our Aldermen actions to determine if they are truly representing us. We the voters can not do this if the Mayor puts them behind closed doors.
I do not believe for one second that is the reason for going to executive session on the issue of the illegal police pay raises. It was done to keep the action out of the eye of the public and was done that way for the Mayor's personal and political reasons.
Face it readers, we have paranoid, law breaking Mayor running our City, who believes he is accountable to no one.
"I was impressed with the editorial in the paper. Having Eckrich and the civil service board investigate is a nice compromise."
I agree too. I think that would be the way to go.
Yes poster 8:41 I agree with your thoughts. My question is will it's actions be transparent and visible to the public?
My Gawd. Roy is a nightmare come true!
6:43 Hi Tim,
First of all, let's remember what Tom Ford said about keeping these comments open and civil.
In that vein, I clicked on the Call article and read it. I read it three times. You call us Roy Defenders because we see things differently. But I don't call it that.
You and I we were friends for many years. Are we no longer friends because as much as I tried my best to understand your position, I feel you are wrong?
I remember the good old days when things were not all good either, but people didn't have this wild bantor going on. This can become contagious and pretty soon, we are all saying things and lacking in temperance. I am guilty of it like many others.
But I don't see where this article says ego. When you were alderman, you had your bad moments too on the dais. Our mayor at that time permitted loud and sometimes rude discourse but still had the right to guide the aldermen and attendants as he saw fit. I didn't feel he was right doing that either, but I didn't attribute it to ego or trying to cover things up.
He controlled the meeting and no one said a thing about Roberts Rules of Order or his ego, trying to cover things up, or shoving them under the rug.
I understand that you and others are very unhappy with the way Roy does things. But we all know that when someone fundamentally is against Roy as being mayor in the first place, and you definitely are, his every words and actions will be scrutinized. That can manifest itself into anger, frustration, insults, and questionable actions. That's when things result in chaos. Bad and unfair assumptions and even character assacination are the results.
I am just expressing how I feel about things. Again let me reinterate that Tom stated his rules for this blog in a previous comment.
I will try to abide by those rules. And I don't feel it is right for you to call us "roy defenders" and state that we have "our version" of Roy's comments, when it is just "an opinion" or interpretation of what the mayor said in the Suncrest Call.
"Our opinion" is not the same as "our version". We should be entitled to it just as much as you have a right to disagree.
When you place us on the opposite side of the fence, you are dividing us into groups where we are not going to ever come together.
People on this blog like to provoke and they do it well. I don't think that is what this blog should be used for. People will purposely say things to create more hostility and they do that very well. Words are harsh and mean and so many of them are just not true.
I thought we were all suppose to be united in our quest for Crestwood.
Sandy Grave
Sandy Grave
12:21 PM, September 18, 2008
I find it hard to believe that you think the mayor's behavior is Okay. Is that what you were saying?
12:21. If this blog was available ‘back in the day’ that you seem to live in, you would have definitely found discourse with what the Mayor did. The citizens of Crestwood hated the Bradford Pear Tree; how about the stupid sign regulations for business; building the pool at Whitecliff. Those are just a few examples of the crap that Mayor Pat did. She was as progressive as a toad and did nothing but keep the status quo. But you thought she walked on water.
But with the invention of technology, you are now privileged to be aware of other’s comments. So nothing has changed in the world of Crestwood politics; you just now can read about it.
A couple of points:
There are a few folks who supported Roy in the beginning, backed Roy during his first 1-3 years as mayor, and defended him when we could. But we watched what he has said and what he has done. We watched how he treated aldermen, some of whom were good supporters like Jerry Miguel.
We've seen his attitude toward those he doesn't agree with - aldermen and constituents - and to us, it ain't pretty. Then he was against a tax increase. Then after his election, he was for one.
Yes, things get heated especially in politics and government. But this is quite unusual to say the least.
Well gosh 1:37 you must have been angry for a long, long time if you want to match wits with me about Pat Killoren. Sorry you soul is so soiled with bitterness.
I didn't see anyone run against Pat Killoren to change anything! So she must have been doing things right.
One thing I know she wouldn't do is mud sling you or anybody else on this blog.
By this comment to Tom Ford; you see how if you say something and sign your name, you get your hands slapped or your throat cut?
1:37 PM People keep telling me that I should move forward and forget the past; apparently, you haven't. I said nothing offensive. But you put your fists up and are ready to fight!
Anyhow, I was speaking to Tim Trueblood and not you. Are you now speaking in Tim's behalf. I guess it's OK if you are Karen, which I doubt.
Also, Pat Killoren had 8 people on her board of aldermen too. Just like now. If she did anything she should be sorry for, don't just blame her.
She cared more about this city than anybody I know.
I know she was honest; I know she was caring; I know that she tried to get along with everyone and went out of her way to be there for all residents including the elderly ones as well.
I should know because when anyone called for help and were sick and unable to go to the store or to a doctor's appointment, I took my own car and did it upon her request. How about them apples? You don't see that anywhere anymore.
You get uppidy with me, I get uppdity with you; that's how it works.
Who do you think you are that you feel I shouldn't speak how I feel? Is this a communist country now; all of a sudden?
I was there for over 30 years; if I feel I have a few things I want to share, I will and you just ain't gonna stop me.
You can tell me that you don't agree with me, and I will respect it; but I should have the same privilege. But don't think you can bamboozle me and criticize me and get away with it.
When you take a big girl pill, then we will talk. Until then, I won't share your rath cause it just breeds more of the same.
Sandy Grave
"I didn't see anyone run against Pat Killoren to change anything! So she must have been doing things right."
Sandy, get your facts straight. Guess who ran against her in 1992?
Guess who ran against her in 1994?
Can you guess?
Should I give you a hint?
His initials are R.R.
Can you guess now?
And the answer is ...
ROY ROBINSON
Sandy,
I don't know if are we still friends. That's up to you.
That issue aside, my point after reading the exclusive interview in the Call given by our Mayor is simple.
1. Roy does not understand or intend to follow the state Sunshine Law, read it and tell me were is says an reason for executive session is fear that an Alderman might say something? It's not there.
2. Roy talks about people making statements they are not prepared to make. After reading this interview, that to me is like the lid calling the kettle black.
3. Roy is upset that a representative of the people goes to a public CSB meeting? Come on, what about his attendance to the Charter Commission meetings and his meeting with it's Chair, James Brafield at the former Mayors home in private? Do you think he may have tried or did influence the out come of that commissions work?
4.Roy says Ms. Duchild gets up in meetings and speaks and she shouldn't? Does this mean when you are appointed to one of Roy's boards you lose your freedom of speech?
5. Roy has no ego, you are kidding aren't you ? Read the last 4 sentences of his interview. It is not Roy's meeting, it is the Board of Alderman's meeting. He is not an Alderman.
6. Because I disagree with Roy's actions and general behaviour and have from the first day I had to work with him, does that not allow me to express same? If you read the letters to the editors and postings on this blog aren't you starting to see that many of the things I and others objected to about Roy are now being expressed by his former supporters?
7. So, would it be safe to say that you found nothing disturbing in Roy's interview? That you are 100% in agreement with what he said and his positions?
Then that makes you a Roy supported.
tim
3:18 Oh that's right! I should have added, that Roy lost to her.
One other thing, I better tell everyone regarding my previous comment. Sorry you didn't pick up on it.
When I used my own car to help residents who needed assistance when Pat Killoren was Mayor, I used and paid for my own gas and never got reimbursed with city money. It was my money and I loved doing it. Maybe Jerry Miguel can go back and research that to make sure I am not a liar.
Sorry that I forgot such a pivitol issue as "Roy" running against Pat Killoren. That said, however, I can also add that if she was still around, Brasfield, Fagan, Robertson or anyone for that matter, wouldn't stand a chance to win over Pat, because that's how much she was respected and loved in this town.
Oh and thanks for getting my facts straight for me. I am sure I will hear from you again.
One more thing. You can try to burst my balloon if you want, by trying to catch my errors, grammatical or otherwise but you won't. However, it sure is comforting to know that I will always have you to count on to tell me when I goof.
Sandy Grave
Sandy,
FYI, Karen is in Milwaukee on a business trip, she does not post on this blog. She returns tonite after 7:00p.m. if you do not believe me I'll send you her itinerary by email.
tim
Can someone train our Mayor the Roberts Rule of Order, Crestwood Charter, and the protocol of an ordinance?
Please volunteer your services to save our city!
3:43 Tim. I will always consider you a friend; but that's not to say you don't make me angry. If that feeling isn't mutual, I will still like you for the person I know I have seen.
Tim, I guess I am hopeless in your eyes but I have read the Suncrest Call and read Roy's words. Roy is stating his position as mayor. Like you said, I know that you disagree and I can't argue with you or anyone else about how you feel versus my interpretation.
I have also read the city administrator memos that were written and I think he is right on the money.
You obviously don't. So if that makes me a Roy supporter, in your eyes, does that diminish me in your opinion.
Bottom line for me Tim is this. If things are found to be illegal by the Ethics Commission, so be it. If the issue with the CSB is not resolved, because it is a matter of an employee doing something which may be illegal or legal, is for the city attorney, and city administrator to discuss. I refuse to feel that the secretary should be ousted. However, if you feel that the secretary should be fired, and Roy should be Recalled, and maybe throw in the city attorney and the new city administrator; heck, get rid of them all because it's nix to me. But I will never feel it is right or fair until somebody with legal expertise tells me so.
Thanks and best regards to you, Karen and Daughter.
Sandy Grave
3:47 God Tim, why would I not believe you. I hope Karen has a safe trip home.
I am not your enemy. We see things differently, that's all.
Sandy Grave
Tom, Is this your blog that our Mayor is reading? Since when is a blog a newspaper with all of the facts!
"I'm going to suggest that Mrs. Huston be involved and only Mrs. Huston due to a previous memo that Alderman Nieder gave us two meetings ago," Roby said. "The last page of which is an e-mail from a member of the civil-service commission to Alderman Miguel coaching him by laying out and underlining items in this document that show bias, in my opinion. And there have also been comments made on a local blog that I think may skew that individual's perspective. And that's why I suggest that the city attorney, Mrs. Huston and the city administrator get together."
Is our Mayor "sexist"? He appointed all women for the Civil Service Board but will not let them speak.
A blog is a newspaper when Roy says it's one, and dont you forget it!!
I have just read the interview of Mayor Roy Robinson by the Sun Crest Call. Sadly, my general impression is that Roy has become a tyrant with a bunker mentality.
Roy states in the interview that, to his best belief, he has never violated the Sunshine Law...followed by all of the reasons he appears to have violated the Sunshine Law.
There is a reason that government is conducted in public - it is called DEMOCRACY. Feel free to grab a dictionary to look up all words in caps so you can follow along - try to keep up. This is still our form of government in the United States, and that is supposed to include Crestwood. “Grandstanding” (Roy’s definition of anything uttered by someone who does not agree with him) is still a protected right in a DEMOCRACY. The reason Roy is being called “King Roy” is that he appears to think that our form of government is a MONARCHY. As a cost-saving measure, perhaps we should dismiss the Board of Alderman (infiltrators that some of them are) and just retain our king. If all decisions are going to be made by him anyway, if no difference of opinion is allowed, why do we keep paying a Board? Oh that’s right, the BOA consists of representatives ELECTED by the citizens so that we don’t have a MONARCHY or DICTATORSHIP.
And by the way Roy, instead of accusing Miguel and Nieder of “infiltrating” the Civil Service Board, why don’t you attend their meetings if you are so sure that they spend their time there plotting against you? At this point Miguel and Nieder seem to be more interested in what is happening in their city than you do - or perhaps they are trying to understand a situation that you already understand too well, which is why you are afraid to have it investigated.
Here’s another thing, you can’t just exclude members of the Civil Service Board that you don’t like from meetings that concern that board (see DICTATORSHIP above). And yes, Martha Duchild lives in the U.S., which makes her part of a DEMOCRACY, she can speak about any issue she wants. It is her right, she is one of your CONSTITUENTS. You did not get elected to only govern the people you like.
4;54 PM BLOGGER: I have had an application into His Honor for some time now requesting "NEWS CREDENTIALS" for City hall, to no avail!
By the way, I understand that the "meeting" between Ms. Huston, and Mr. Eckrich has been cancelled, for whatever reason, so, now what?
I always know when he reads the blog, as he calls and yells at me, and that hasn't happened recently, so?
Tom Ford
If we are really serious about being upset abut the actions of our Mayor, I think we need to be honest about the fact that, as beloved as Tom's blog is, the newspapers have more readership. Therefore I would hope those of you who express such disfavor and dismay would be brave enough to write a letter to the editor of the Call express your thoughts for all to read.
If Roy gets this upset over what he reads here, how do you think he will react letters to the newspaper?
Who knows maybe he will change.
You know what Roy and Obama have in common? They are both ELITIST!
6:02 Regarding...
"Roy states in the interview that, to his best belief, he has never violated the Sunshine Law...followed by all of the reasons he appears to have violated the Sunshine Law".
As you so stated above, can you specifically tell me what shows in Roy's interview that he violated the Sunshine Law?.
Isn't the Sunshine Law in place so that people can go up to our city hall and sign a form to request to examine documents which would otherwise not be available for them to read?
If I am not mistaken, wasn't the mayor whose unexpired term was filled by Tom Fagan, wasn't that mayor the one who advocated the Sunshine Law? Reason being was so that everything would be readily available to see by the public? Funny how the reason for his resignation was covered up and the Sunshine Law was never held in obeyance then, when the truth was not given out to the public or specifically stated in the newspaper.
And you can thank the mayor and board of aldermen members at that time for not upholding the so-called Sunshine Law when big coverups were "swept under the rug". I can name them Tim if you need specifics.
But now they challenge this mayor and his word and use the Sunshine Law as their shield which I don't understand. However, I am sure someone will no doubt explain it to me along with any mispelled words or events mistakenly not in place.
What's sad? Some of those same people have become self-righteous and want everything brought out in public Now. Funny how it didn't matter December 12, 2002 or in 2003. Why is that do you think?
But now it does. Politics is so fickle and so cruel.
But Oh My, the Sunshine Law is pivitol now but not then.
I guess you pull out the Sunshine Law when you need it to hide behind your vengeance, but when you don't want to follow it, you toss it in a draw.
Sandy Grave
Read the darn State Law, something Roy has never done, and you will see EXACTLY what a government can and can not do in executive session.
What the City did in closed session does not fit the most liberal definition of the Sunshine Law. Plus our Charter says that that the discussion of salaries for employees is to be done in public meeting, just another violation of another law the tin potbellied dictator we have for a mayor.
I really have a hard time believing your defense of this man's actions by trying to imply he isn't the 1st mayor to abuse the Sunshine Law.
If you know the reasons the mayor in question resigned and feel so strongly that it was covered up, here is your big chance Sandy to blow the lid off. Why won't you do that instead of threatening to all the time? So go ahead, spill all the beans and be sure to sign your name while your at it so we can all be sure of the truthfulness of your exclusive.
Better still send your inside information in a letter to the editor of the CALL, I'm sure they would love to publish it.
Sounds like it's to put up or shut up Sandy.
Sandy -
I think you are confusing the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), a federal law dealing with the release of documents, and the Sunshine Law, a Missouri statute that can be read in its entirety on the website of the Missouri Attorney General. The Sunshine Law does not provide for closing a meeting that addresses spending public funds - taxpayer’s money - if you live in Crestwood - your money, on public salaries for police because the mayor thinks that someone might want to “grandstand” those are his words, not mine, and that some alderman (or perhaps, gasp, a taxpaying citizen) might say something “shocking”. My interpretation of the mayor’s comments in the Call article is that he was afraid that the police officers that did not receive promotions or raises might have said something negative. Fancy that. So Sandy, is that okay with you? It is okay that the mayor and the BOA are spending public money in a private session with no possibility of discussion or question from the taxpayers who are paying for these raises?
As for your comments about what happened in 2002 and 2003, some of us did not live in Missouri then, some of us relocated to St. Louis and settled in Crestwood because it was supposed to be so wholesome and wonderful, only to find that the city government is being headed up by a paranoid nutcase.
Oh, and Sandy, I don’t know who you are, but you need to get a life, get a clue, get a dictionary or at least a spell checker - a fact checker would come in handy too and darling, you need to get out of Crestwood once in a while, there’s a whole big world out there.
Hey Tom, here we go again with the BS. Let me speak please, and let me have my say like you have others.
8:41 PM You just can't keep it civil, can you? You just have to get vile. See Tom, they don't listen, they react.
Take your best shot at me, you hateful snot. If you have been reading this blog for awhile, you would have known that I HAVE stated several times what happened to me at the hands of the resigned mayor. Where have you been? Underground? Under a rock where all the vermon live?
I have mentioned December 12th more than just a few times. There are lots of other things I have also mentioned about what happened in the police department and the sexual harrassment that went on there. It was covered up. No Sunshine Law then. Nothing was done about it cause Don Greer was The King. Like you now say Roy is King. There were lots of issues swept under the rug far greater than civil service problems and pay raises. But NOTHING was ever mentioned. To set the record straight, specifically I have mentioned them all on this blog and not just threatened to, but I guess you only read what you want to read.
Your smart mouth is exactly why people on this blog get nasty. You are a prime example of it, and it is just too doggone bad that you don't want me to make a comparison.
Stop acting like a big cry baby and stop acting so in touch with the laws and the charter when it never made any difference before. How dam convenient that NOW you are all about honor and integrity.
Vengeance is the name of your game pure and simple. Roy was not your "chosen one" and your vengeance shows like a neon sign.
Everybody doesn't have to agree with you, you know! Just because they don't agree, doesn't give you the right to run your horn mouth about them and get nasty. That's all you know how to do I guess. Lash out when someone else disagrees. Wow, I'm impressed. TOM SEE HOW COME THIS GETS NASTY?
1. You hate this mayor and want everyone else to hate him when the previous mayor and your board of aldermen did nothing about MUCH WORSE ISSUES. You are in no position then to judge me or what I say now that someone else is running the show and it's someone you defile every chance you get.
2. You just can't keep things civil. Because you don't know how to have a honest discussion. It's either your way or nothing. Rather than disagree when I say something, you get mean and start showing your posterior. Then if I lash back, I'm the bad guy right?
3. You always have to sucker punch people that disagree with you. And you treat them like a dog if they do disagree. That's when you REALLY show your bare buttocks.
You provoke arguements cause that's all you know. I won't go along with it and be submissive.
4. You despise Roy, you will do whatever you have to do to get people to believe your XXXX and gain their trust; whether it be defaming him, claiming he is a liar, that he wants to be king, has an ego (probably not half as big as yours), and you will, as long as you have breath, destroy him or die trying.
5. If you have to use those persons who are affiliated with him or appointed by him to diminish him, you will do it because by his choices for department heads, you can make him look bad. That is part of your creedo and your own special talent.
On Dec. 12, 2002 the mayor was a very bad boy. I did what I had to do, and filed a lawsuit, like it or not. That was covered up, and all the board members knew it and did nothing about it because you had a city administrator a million times worse than what we have now.
So don't get so dam smart with me, you sick bully. If I want to favor this mayor over the others, I have every right to do so. But my reason is based on what I saw and heard for lots of years.
You protected a mayor and favored a sociopathic city administrator that damaged this city. Now we have one you don't like, so dam the torpedos.
So kiss my grits. If you don't like what I say it is just to dang bad.
Sandy Grave
10:19 PM, September 18, 2008
Look what you have done now....awakened the paragraph queen and the "past" again.
10:19 Well thanks for your explanations. Yeah, I guess I do need to get out of Crestwood; but I do have a life whether anyone believes me or not.
In fact, my family is very angry that I want to get involved with anything about Crestwood anymore.
And people on this blog want me to shut up too. But I am not going to roll over and play dead and I am not going to be bullied by the masses either. When I decide I have had my fill, I will quit. But as long as everyone else has no problem opening up their mouths, I don't see why I should just dry up and blow away.
Thanks for telling me about the Freedom of Information Act versus the Sunshine Law. Either the Act or the Law would have made no difference in my case. The truth would have always been covered up. That's all I am saying OK?
As far as pay raises being discussed at an open meeting? I was always under the impression that since these raises were part of personnel, and were not in the original budget, that discussing them in an executive session was what they did.
Personnel issues were never discussed at open board of aldermen meetings so this is something new to me. HOWEVER, if this was wrong, and was unlawful, why didn't somebody say so before the closed session was called? If this was not legal, why didn't the City Attorney tell the mayor it was not legal and that the Sunshine Law forbids it?
That said, I say at least wait until the Ethics Committee reveals the results of the investigation about it. Why let this insatiable bantor continue.
When we get the results of the ethics committee, then people can express their dismay or disgust. Until then, it angers me that people have to be so judgemental.
I am sorry that I have obviously made a bad impression on you; but if you look at the other bloggers, you will see that I am in good company.
If people want to tangle with me, and get nasty because of my view, they are going to find that I am not a pushover and have the same rights as they do.
That said, maybe they need to get out of Crestwood for awhile or for good.
Sandy Grave
11:06 Yeah they sure did awaken the paragraph queen. Can't get angry at you for that.
You did make me laugh. I guess that is one of the better names I have been called.
So sorry that you were trying to be mean spirited about it. Actually, you are quite the comedian. Thanks again for the chuckle. That is really funny.
Sandy Grave
This is for Sandy -
I am a newcomer to this forum, but obviously you feel wronged by officials in a prior administration. It sounds as if they did something very extreme, something that merited a lawsuit and you will never forgive them. Human nature being as it is, most people do not do something extreme out of the blue, they work up to it. They get away with something small, then something larger, then something that can’t be ignored. What if it had been nipped in the bud?
That is what I would like to see happen in Crestwood. If a mayor or board that used to have integrity starts to veer off course, isn’t it better to nip it in the bud? But a violation here, a violation there, with no one admitting wrong-doing, no apology, no humility (these are public servants) starts to erode public trust. I don’t think people “despise” Roy. I think they are disappointed and saddened that someone who seemed to have such noble intentions has now closed his mind to any viewpoint that conflicts with his. This is not government of the people, by the people and for the people.
As for pay raises being discussed in an open meeting, this is a budget item and is appropriate for an open meeting. When you are discussing a specific worker, it is a matter for a closed meeting (such as a reason for discipline, etc.). You really do need to read the Sunshine Law. You also bring up a very good point - why did the city attorney, who is compensated quite well to be an expert on municipal law, allow this closed meeting? The competency of the city attorney has been discussed before. Perhaps he is not serving the City of Crestwood well. To rely on his judgment when it seems to be questionable could be a big part of the problem. Roy is not an attorney, therefore he relies on one. What if he is receiving very bad advice?
One more thing. The Ethics Commission is investigating the political action committee that supported the tax increase. The Ethics Commission is not involved in the police compensation issue. Please don’t confuse these two issues.
12:54 Thanks so much.
That is what I call an honest and decent answer to my comments. Why everyone can't be like you, I don't know.
You show me that there is someone in Crestwood, that may not agree with me, but can explain how they feel about this mayor and make judgements without causing chaos or hurt.
I hope you can show others by your sensible and kind words that discourse is possible between two human beings without violent attacks.
Most importantly, you show me that you at least have empathy, which is all I ever wanted in the first place. Nobody had to kiss my feet, just show a little compassion. Not really a big deal to do if you are a good person.
After over 100,000 hits, I finally get someone on this blog who understands what I was stating.
I hope you stay around for awhile.
Thanks so much.
Sandy Grave
8:41 You said to me "Read the darn State Law, something Roy has never done, and you will see EXACTLY what a government can and can not do in executive session.
What the City did in closed session does not fit the most liberal definition of the Sunshine Law. Plus our Charter says that that the discussion of salaries for employees is to be done in public meeting, just another violation of another law the tin potbellied dictator we have for a mayor". You made your point.
However, may I respectfully ask you since the city attorney is our "legal counsel" why didn't he do his job and protect the mayor and officials from doing something illegal. Or do you just want to fault the mayor. If you do, why should we pay the city attorney or have one in the first place? Or should the City Attorney just be exonerated?
If you can answer me by being civil, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
On another issue, can you try to explain something to me? Why did you find it necessary to name call the mayor. A "potbellied pig" you say. What does his stature have to do with anything other than showing me you know how to be rude? Had the mayor been a 6 ft. 2" GQ Model, what adjective would you have used? Would he then just be a "pig", a young, cute "pig" or maybe not a "pig" at all? It has no relevance at all except to show me that you have an awful attitude, you absolutely dispise me, which causes me to lash back and you let your mouth overload your bootie.
The issue was as I understand it, is for me to read the law. No need to throw in the garbage.
Sandy Grave
Hey Tim (Timmy),
What do you think? Can we still be friends even if we don't agree?
My best friend for 40 years is voting Democrat; I am voting Republican. I would give my life for her because she is like my very own sister. But we have different views on issue and things.
We talk about politics all the time but we never get angry with one another; we just see things differently.
Please don't tell me that all those good fun memories and conversations we have had at city hall have all gone by the wayside now.
The fun I had with some of the board of aldermen members is all I have left. So can you please squeeze me in your front door? Huh! OK?
Sandy Grave
After reading the link you provide, it is difficult for me to believe we have a stable person in the Mayor's office. What does a city have to do to fix this kind of thing?
The difference between Mayor Pat and Mayor Roy is that Mayor Pat wasn't afraid to ask for help. Mayor Pat was cautious in her decisions and was a long term planner.
Pat always called the residents for advise and asked them for help on a subject matter that they were familiar with. Also, Pat knew how to run a meeting.
How about creating a checklist for Mayor Robinson? Can Helen do this for our Mayor?
uh, sandy, did you notice the mayor said the meetings were "his meetings"? Wonder why they are called ALDERMANIC MEETINGS. I think the poster's comments about Sarah Palin are right on target to our city - women have had the right to vote and lead and even, egad, speak in public for a long time now. If they mayor can't deal with a strong woman, we should get someone who can comply with discrimination laws. Don't forget - one of the people Sarah Palin was able to get rid of was an official who used government offices, equipment, staff and materials to lobby for an election issue. Hmmmmm, sound familiar at all? Regardless of who is involved or where in the US it occurs, this is illegal. I can also remember an awful lot of posts on this blog demanding the truth about financial dealings in Crestwood come out in the light! I can remember direct attacks in public aldermanic meetings on the city administrator and Dianna Madrid and their competency - both public employees. Now you are telling me employee information must be kept secret to guard the good name of the city? Seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Please do not post ad nauseum about how wrong those two former employees were - I only used the two of them as examples of employees discussed publicly. I'm sure there were others as well.
Sandy so glad you are in favor of being "civil". I guess these are examples of your civility -
"Take your best shot at me, you hateful snot."
"Where have you been? Underground? Under a rock where all the vermon live?"
"So don't get so dam smart with me, you sick bully."
"Stop acting like a big cry baby"
"You protected a mayor and favored a sociopathic city administrator that damaged this city. Now we have one you don't like, so dam the torpedos. So kiss my grits. If you don't like what I say it is just to dang bad."
BTW, Sandy, there are people living all over the country who were molested as children, raped as adults, beaten, shot, disfigured and otherwise abused. I doubt any of them would tell you it is productive to become obsessed on the one event you experienced. Good lord, lots of worse things could've happened to you or any of us. You filed your lawsuit and presumably it is over. Stop acting the victim and go out and make a good life for yourself. Maybe watch that John Walsh guy on America's most wanted - his son was abducted and his dead body found molested. John Walsh used that event to help countless people. Maybe you will be inspired.
5:05 Thanks for your comments. I understand what you are trying to convey. I will try my best to stay focused, if everyone else does the same thing.
I don't have to agree with you, and you don't have to agree with me. But when people start screaming at me, I tend to give it right back to them. And when I do, they admonish me but not themselves. Kind of like a one way street.
So, anyhow thanks again.
Sandy
5:16 Good God and Holy Cow!
What did you want me to say after all the warm and fuzzy, sweet and kind words you said to me? This one was a real clinker.....
8:41 9/18 "If you know the reasons the mayor in question resigned and feel so strongly that it was covered up, here is your big chance Sandy to blow the lid off. Why won't you do that instead of threatening to all the time? So go ahead, spill all the beans and be sure to sign your name while your at it so we can all be sure of the truthfulness of your exclusive."
So let's agree that my words back to you at 10:34 9/18 were reactionary and didn't come from out of the blue. You made me angry and I let you have it. I am not happy with myself about it, but when someone hits me hard, I hit back. Not a very nice thing to do, but I am only human. It's like sitting on a bed of nails!!!!
And yes, you are right. I should just let things go and I appreciate what you are saying and thank you.
But I have also stated things on this blog that some of you bloggers need to think about too. If you examined your own conscience, you would see that some of your words are very vendictive and maybe some of your anger just creates more.
You probably don't believe me but I have tried real hard to put things behind me. But I spent a lot of years at city hall and it took up a big part of my life. I thought I made some friends with city officials along the way. To this day, I have yet to hear from one of them except Tim Trueblood who is not very happy with me right now either. It makes me sad and upset because I feel like a failure. I was to be punished for filing a lawsuit or so it seems since nobody ever spoke to me.
Sometimes, life throws us curve balls. But I have never been good at baseball.
I hope we both can just try this all over again and this time, be civil to one another. OK?
Sandy Grave
It's the Sandy Grave show!!
You know what, all the women in Crestwood should show up at the next BOA meetings with signs reading,
MR. MAYOR
WE WILL NOT BE ALMOST NON-EXISTENT
This is based on his statement in the Call saying that Martha should almost be non-existent.
Who the H*LL does he think he is to tell the women in Crestwood when and what they can say?
Hey Roy, big buddy, you are out of line if you think you can tell this woman when I can talk, where I can sit and when I can talk!
The men should with signs saying
OFFICIAL INFILTRATER AND WEAR sunglasses and rain coats like they are spies.
What joke this MAN has become!
9:51 PM blogger: Now, now, please be nice to Sandy! She has the same rights as all of us to post here!
And that has been guaranteed, and is being guaranteed by men and women in our armed forces every day!
11:32 PM blogger: OUTSTANDING! What a really great idea! Since Halloween is coming anyway this would be a great idea for an October meeting!
What say we try to promote it?
Tom Ford
got a trench coat, looking for a fake beard and snap brim hat. wonder if police officer on duty at meetings would have to do a cavity search?
have old brief case, can we bring signs to meetings?
how about 3 of us sitting in front row and every time any one speaks except Nieder or Miguel, we do the 3 see no evil, hear no evil speak no evil, monkeys?
signed,
Read My Lipstick
this is a general comment to Sandy G. It is not that we want to limit you ability to comment or argue the finite points of your posts: the issue IS you need to shut up and go away. We are all tired of your ranting over the past. You have posted nothing of interest and your one way blogs with Tim are boring.
You should direct your bloging to the rant and rave section of craigslist. You will find a group of people more suited to your plight.
9:30 Below is all for you dude!
you stated ... "you need to shut up and go away. We are all tired of your ranting over the past. You have posted nothing of interest and your one way blogs with Tim are boring".
I guess they are all boring unless they slam the mayor and company. Right?
Tom Ford's answer to that at 9:51 PM is .."Now, now, please be nice to Sandy! She has the same rights as all of us to post here!And that has been guaranteed, and is being guaranteed by men and women in our armed forces every day"!
You speak of me staying off the blog; but in defense of Martha and to get back at the Mayor
11:32 says...
"Who the H*LL does he think he is to tell the WOMEN IN CRESTWOOD when and what they can say"?
(said by one of Crestwood's finest Roy hater bloggers, maybe you!)
Finally, I will make one last point and see if you get it (probably not)
1:37 9/18 said ....Those are just a few examples of the crap that Mayor Pat did. She was as progressive as a toad and did nothing but keep the status quo. But you thought she walked on water.
My answer is (You better tell this blogger that she has no respect for the dead. Pat Killoren is dead and her remarks are a disgrace) Also you can tell this blogger to (stop living in the past and get a life; that was then this is now).
Other than the above, I will go away when Tom Ford tells me to splite. And as long as people like you keep up the BS on this blog but have no concept of how to do that, I will stop when hell freezes over.
Thank you and have a nice day.
SG
Atta girl Sandy! A bit of a shot across the bow, a what?
Tom Ford
12:09
Yada yada yada
yawn.
As you may, or may not know, I removed two posts that I felt were a bit over the line in personal insults.
Please feel free to disagree, but please keep it civil before we drag ourselves down to the level were complaining about.
Remember it takes 487 facial muscles to frown, but only 6 to flip your adversary a bird! But please reserve that for when you meet in person!
I thank you in advance for your understanding of my sensitivities.
Tom Ford
Why bother. Roy and his gang of 6 aldermen are not going to tell us the truth, just more stone wall for us, and they will win in the end.
Any time a post is put up here being critical of their actions, old Sandy G come running to Roy's defense with her old story of woe and mistreatment, diverting any real movement to stop the corruption at city hall to her over told tale.
Roy can give an exclusive interview in which he exposes his lack of IQ and understanding of the Sunshine Law and I would be very surprised if anyone writes a letter to the paper disagreeing with his position.
We are getting what we deserve when we elected Roy twice.
Why bother anymore.
11:16 PM blogger: remember the old sage, "all it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing." (Disraeli)
Your right when you say we need to write letters to the editor, and as we speak I have just penned one to the South County Times, and the Sun Crest Call.
Now it's your turn my friend!
Tom Ford
11:16 All this blog has been doing is talking against Roy; there is nothing else. So I would say that there are more of you than just one person Sandy G.
I think unless you want to start dealing with her family, you had better leave her alone to speak how she feels.
Just thought you would want to know.
Well I'll be a wolf on a scooter! Jed an Jethro are comin to whomp us!
11:48 AM blogger: unless you missed it, Sandy can (and does) take care of herself!
Now as for the thinly veiled threat, well I will leave it on there for bloggers to see your stupidity!
No threats of any kind will be allowed on here from now on!
Tom Ford
Crestwood has been through a temultuous journey. And Crestwood has survived.
It may take awhile, but I feel that over time, even with much in-fighting, mud slinging and descension, the war will end because Crestwood will rally and rally on the side of good versus evil.
If the day comes when we are really doomed (as I don't feel we are doomed now as some may feel), we will all come together and fight together to save Crestwood. We just have not felt it's biggest impact. We will come together to preserve the city and everyone in it.
Although we may never agree and be totally united politically, I honestly feel we will come close to it.
Time is our biggest enemy but it will come.
11:16 PM blogger: Well Ole letter writing pal, my first letter just appeared in the South County Times on Friday.
When can we expect your missive to hit the papers?
Tom Ford
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