The Sappington House and the new resturant managers?
At the meeting last night quite a few things were said reference the Thomas Sappington House, not the least of which was the fact that Crestwood OWNS the place outright, in fact it's listed on the City web site as an "asset."
Now if we own it, and it's an asset, pray tell me just who is on the Board of the Sappington Foundation? There is a $500,000.00 trust fund set up for the place, and no one knows who is on the Board or if they live in Crestwood?
I have heard all sorts of things about the place such as "National Treasure, Old artifacts, and we can never sell it. Now as to the "never sell it" part of the question, why can't we sell it, or at least notify the Board (whomever they are, wherever they are,) that we shall no longer be responsible for the maintainability or up-keep of the property.
I guess we will have to file a FOIA form to find the ordnance,that is on file for the property as well as who the Board consists of.
I also find it very interesting that Ward two Alderman Kelsh advised the BOA that he would like to take over the Restaurant portion of the home, and run it next season. This is interesting because if we have to clear that with the Board someone must know who they are, and thus were being bamboozled again!
If anyone knows who the Board members are it would be the man who runs Crestwood, so how about it "your Honor" who are they, and where are they?
Tom Ford
NO. 571
Now if we own it, and it's an asset, pray tell me just who is on the Board of the Sappington Foundation? There is a $500,000.00 trust fund set up for the place, and no one knows who is on the Board or if they live in Crestwood?
I have heard all sorts of things about the place such as "National Treasure, Old artifacts, and we can never sell it. Now as to the "never sell it" part of the question, why can't we sell it, or at least notify the Board (whomever they are, wherever they are,) that we shall no longer be responsible for the maintainability or up-keep of the property.
I guess we will have to file a FOIA form to find the ordnance,that is on file for the property as well as who the Board consists of.
I also find it very interesting that Ward two Alderman Kelsh advised the BOA that he would like to take over the Restaurant portion of the home, and run it next season. This is interesting because if we have to clear that with the Board someone must know who they are, and thus were being bamboozled again!
If anyone knows who the Board members are it would be the man who runs Crestwood, so how about it "your Honor" who are they, and where are they?
Tom Ford
NO. 571
posted by Crestwood Independent at 15:01
27 Comments:
Let an alderman run the kitchen? Come on!!! This place is getting to be a real joke. No wonder we still keep it open. We have to have a place for the employees to live and BOA to work.
Maybe he could stay there and we could pay him also.
We ran the Sappington House when we could afford it. Now it's time to let the Feds run it or move it somewhere else.
We don't have the luxury of doing this any longer.
Why don't we all sell our houses and move in there. Rent free? In todays atmospere, that would be a luxury. Just think of it..no bills or property tax and we could make all the long distance phone calls we want without paying.
The Sappington House Foundation is established as an official board and agency of the city of Crestwood. Ordinance 1145 established that.
Ordinance 1145 also further establishes:
The treasurer of the City of Crestwood shall set up a special bank account in which all funds received by the Foundation must be deposited. Any funds withdrawn must be provided for in the budget of the City of Crestwood or by ordinance passsed by the BOA.
The Sappington House is owned by the City of Crestwood. Any funds collected hereunder become the property of the City of Crestwood and items purchased out of said funds shall be and remain the property of the City until said City Hall shall, by order or ordinance of the BOA authorize its sales or disposal.
The Foundation shall support the continuing development of the Sappington House and Barn; raise money needed for the maintenance and furnishings of the house and barn; promote fund raising for such purposes; create and maintain interest in the Sappington house and Barn, and perform such other duties as may be provided by ordinances of the City.
Is appears that over time the role of the Sappington House Foundation has changed and the Foundation has reached a point where it is perceived they essentially function independently from the City. This was not the intent of the ordinance.
Why does the Foundation have three branches?
Why does a foundation set up as an official board and agency of the city of Crestwood now function independently of the City with a substantial cash reserve?
Something to think about as the park and stormwater budget struggles to balance its budget with decreasing revenues
11:55 AM, November 27, 2008
11:55 Am Blogger: Thank you very much, it's a bit more than something!
For those who wish this to continue, I ask you to consider the transfer to the "Foundation," and right now before it cost's us another cent!
Tom Ford
Good Idea Tom. Also, perhaps someone should enlighten City Hall about this information.
But...shouldn't they already know this information? Especially since we are paying someone to live there?
12:28 PM blogger: In the words of the old gangster movies, "they don't know nothing!" Or at least that's what you will get when you ask "His Honor"
Alderman Nieder and Miguel will be into this one, so we will know something before it's over!
Tom Ford
Alderman Kelsh wants to run the resturant at Sappington House? WOULDN'T THAT BE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST?
But since Roy picked him, it will be ok.
These are the best of times, these are the worst of times, or something like that Dickens). We have the real estate iin Crestwood, the schools, the churches, and the good people. Recipe for success is it not?
Gotta wonder why it is easier for city leaders to be so often in denial than to face facts that tax increases don't solve everything? Is it the officials, the boards, the committees, the constituancy, or a combination of all who procrastinate over change? It certainly is not the problems. They are both real and recognizable and shared all about the county. But they keep being tossed about like salad here, limp salad. Retail heyday here is over. Time to reconniter.
Our cash cow, Crestwood Plaza, is factually speaking, dying on the vine. We can hang on to hope in the face of fact, or revise the future of the city. In truth, it is unlikely we will ever be a commercial giant again. Too much competition in relative proximity. We have a nice city which we need to protect and we have retail and industrial which we must protect. All things considered, we have plenty of progressive businesses, 3 grocery stores, 6 individual shopping plazas, banks, offices, restaurants, easy access to highways and lots more. Think about it. We just don't have a huge hummming plaza. We should learn to live within our means with what we have. Mostly, however, we must reach a state of "this is how things are now, a state of grace." We could only be too big for our britches when we had a buzzing mall, that boat has sailed, but we still have our wonderful community and people.
Toning dreams down and realizing the effort it will take to resume a role as a vital "bedroom community" where we like to live and send our children to school starts with fact recognition. We have to eliminate the sucking sound from the financial drains, for example, the Sappington House and Whitecliff Pool, and oversize Fire and Police Departments, and we have to go line by line above our bottom line. Sidesteping these issues is getting costly and depressing. And it has become the worst case of denial I have ever seen. We just keep dancing around waiting for a miracle. This unwillingness to take the big steps and leaps toward tomorrow is unbelievable. Lets face how much it costs to maintain our city: parks, streets, staff, pool, protection, pension, hiring practices, and decide what is excessive. "How many BOA meetings will it take to replace a lightbulb?" Hello, most of the planet is in this kind of spiral. Inevitable, this downsizing, this facing facts!
Why do we have to put up with meeting after meeting after meeting talking about debt and practical needs for such a "small" city with such obvious concerns? Then we get to read in the paper about the meetings and the lack of cohesion.
When we channel good ideas into solid facts, leaving aside all politics, we could maintain our community in its new and revised state and live with it. The only way this can be done is by some very practical officials willing to take the heat for laying it all on the table. Not just one or two, but a consensus. What is really amazing is that the few who speak up and who are willing to tell it like it seems to be, are only headlines, facing down those who prefer the status quo who are merely prolonging our plight or who think the residents will have an uprising and don't realize you cannot please everyone all the time. Anyone who makes this a political scene are totally blind to the facts and discussion that need to be faced. This is not a political career, it is community service.
Please someone, get serious about Crestwood. It has been quite some time since anyone made this plaza a shopping destination. How clear does this have to be? Bandaids don't work. Residents at every chance need to shop here, eat here, go to the Beauty Shop here, bank, and gather and preserve what we have. A cheerful, positive and hopeful countenance could catch on. But it needs to start twice a month at a BOA Meeting with officials up to the task.
If the Sappington H. is a drain, and we have diminishing tax revenue and the mall is not expected to move mountains and the cupboard is pretty bare, why is this sort of expenditure not a major target? If you want Crestwood to survive, this would be a good step 1 followed by some very strict attention to every single detail of the budget and less feet dragging. What do we have to have, what can we absolutely do without? We do this in our private lives, why not our city life? Our part time city attorney makes way too much money, for instance. Is our city hall oversized considering our city size? Tell me, how much does our traffic court bring in? Can we preserve any gasoline? How about salaries? How about considering the life of our city as we step into a future changed from our past? We have had so many personnel changes in the last few years it is a wonder there is a rocognizable bottom line. If the city cannot maintain a league of reliable employees, why are we incorporated?
Very intelligent post. I fear it will only be read on "deaf" ears.
The bottom line is, this administration nor public officials, will take the responsibility and "tell it like it is".
For example, no one in City Hall will get a bid for contracting police or Fire Services, even though they know it will save the City a lot of money. They prefer to nickel and dime small budget items, form another committe-essentialy for another tax hike proposal and continue as they have for the last several years. and have another committe
If the administrations wants to do it, I am sure they are told "no" by the public officials.
It's time to step up and be done with it. If not, the city will see no future tax increase unless the citizens have this information and can vote on the proposal.
To 4:59 PM Nov. 28th
Crestwood Charter Article XIII, Section 13.1 (Personal Financial Interest): "Any elected or appointed officer or employee of the city who has substantial financial interest, direct or indirect, as defined by Missouri statutes, in any transaction with with the city, shall make known that interest in writing to the Board of Aldermen. Such officer or employee shall refrain from voting upon or otherwise participating as a city officer or employee in the making of any such transaction."
Alderman Kelsch did advise the board of his intentions in writing during the Nov. 25th BOA meeting.
Martha Duchild
Martha,
He did so in writing? If so a copy should be available for all to read, do you know where one can get same?
8:10 AM Nov. 29th
Go to City Hall, complete a FOIA form requesting the document and the city clerk should provide you with a copy.
Martha Duchild
Mike Kelsh is a great guy. Why not let him try and run the Sappington house? If he can make a go of it...that would be great! What a nasty bunch of people on this blog (myself excluded)
Nobody said anything about how great a guy Kelsh is or isnt, the question is can he be an alderman at the same time he runs a business that is owned by the city?
2:46 PM
I would imagine Mike Kelsch is a great guy. By the way, it's Kelsch with a C. Considering how you compliment him, it would be nice to spell his name correctly.
If he wants and the city is willing, he can run Sappington House restaurant. According to the charter (from Martha's post of 7:21 PM, November 28, 2008) "Crestwood Charter Article XIII, Section 13.1 (Personal Financial Interest): "Any elected or appointed officer or employee of the city who has substantial financial interest, direct or indirect, as defined by Missouri statutes, in any transaction with with the city, shall make known that interest in writing to the Board of Aldermen. Such officer or employee shall refrain from voting upon or otherwise participating as a city officer or employee in the making of any such transaction.""
If he does take over as he has said he wants to, does this mean there will be limitations on what he can vote on in the future as an Alderman like the budget?
8:27, and 8:39 Bloggers: well if he does take over the restaurant (and if we still have the place, I hope he does,) he will have to abstain from voting on anything to do with the Sappington House.
How refreshing that would be to see a really honest man do the right thing! If you remember we had a few votes on the Board as well as the P&Z board for the pool when they were full fledged members of same!
Oh wait the City Attorney didn't see any problem.
Tom Ford
Honest man? Have you forgot who picked him, the mayor did!
6:13 PM blogger: Mr. kelsch has an office located right around the corner from me in Maryland Hts.( West Port.) I do be believe he is an honest man no matter who picked him!
Let's face it, we do have an overflow of folks who we can't believe, but so far in my opinion, he isn't one of them.
Tom Ford
Who is Mr. Kelsch? What is his bio? He serves as an appointed alderman, this we know, so one can only wonder about his interest in the S. House Restaurant. Is he a chef??? Experience?? What is the PLAN?
Too much history in this city about Aldermen and Board Members who did such a good job sweeping the private swim club into being despite its unfavorable and unfit location.Too much inside track. Lots of affiliation, but little "sunshine." This is city history, it is relevant. This private swim club exploitation is a very sad and questionable venture pulled over on the city. We do not need any more of this kind of shenanigin. If this man wants to run the restaurant, what about his present job? Who will really run the restaurant? Is this going to end up like another case of paying a city employee to live in the little house next to S. House? As a taxpayer, I want to know the deal prior to signing on the bottom line. Residents deserve this. Will reopening this restaurant prolong a decision about the Sapp. House itself and any drain it has on the city? Will this become an excuse? How many restaurants have failed here? Why? I want all the deals in this city to be on behalf of the taxpayers. So, shine the light on this and any restaurant deal, the entire light. Aldermen, ask the right questions, all the right questions. As I see it we don't owe Mr. Kelsch a deal unless it benefits the city and its taxpayers. And, he should remain out of politics as the city is too historically not ready for more politicians "having their way." Could be a nice guy, don't know him. But protecting the city on all bases at all levels has got to be front and center on all matters. Residents are a little nervous lately having heard an amazing translation of the city budget through 3 city administrators and numerous temps, and several board changes.
Aldermen and Mayor of this city do not need any more egg on face. Particularly the kind of egg the city attorney fries and the kind of deals we see going on. (Geeze, a whole fleet of new police cars)! Surely, the board knows by now that the reverse 911 and the bulletin deal which benefitted a private group fronting for the tax increase not only messed up their tax dream, it put the seeds of doubt on that board, the BOA and city hall period. So, if a blogger, who is curious, and whose aldermen are not communicators want more facts, all the facts, nothing but the facts, then it is up to the aldermen to do the digging and make it very public. When all the cards are on the table, legal counsel is astute (????) and above board and aldermanic queries complete and no SPECIAL deals are under the table, then the BOA will be able to assure us a proper decision was made on our behalf. Ya know, people don't get cynical in this city for no good reason. That's the thing, we have lots of reasons.
Concerning todays article in the Call, when the Mayor answered questions about the Sappington House,...anyone want to bet that the Mayor is wrong on 1 or more issues concerning his responses?
As he said "he doesnt know but he knows...."
I also see that Ms. Shannon is on the committe regarding the Sappington House.... THEY DONT GET IT DO THEY?
Also, if you look in the back part of the budget for 2009, all the people that the City Administrator suggested to get raises, even though they are not yet quallified for the position, are getting the raises that he alluded to earlier.
Interesting to note, County Supervisor Dooley is recommending that the previous 3% that his employees were going to receive in 2009, be eliminated because of the economic situtaion and less taxes received.
MMMMMMMMMMMMMM Makes one wonder doesn't it?
12:06 AM blogger: We do indeed have a stack of reasons, and the shoe is yet to fall from the Ethics commission regarding City Hall, and the folks involved there.
The "Citizens for prop one committee" should close soon, but The complaint covering the Reverse 911, and the newsletter will be ongoing for some time to come.
Tom Ford
You are correct, they dont get it. The Sapp House Comm is a joke, if we dont own it why do we have to pay for its upkeep? Do we show it as an asset in our budget? If so, let sell it to the county.
To have Ms. Shannon on the Sapp House Comm is a joke, talk about a conflict of interest?ami
It seems to me that if the BOA was truly committed to coming to terms with the seriousness of the city's bottom line and shrinking possibilities, they would JUMP at the chance to review, in depth, the Sappington House $ siutation. As it is, it seems like our less than astute Mayor has admitted he has no clue as to its operation and financial structure and I don't recall hearing an alderman admit likewise nor offer to delve deeper into it. So 9 apparently people up there are clueless, don't care, don't want to know, don't wish to stick their neck out, want someone else to do it or just plain lazy. What this means is that this board & Mr. Eckerich apparently have exhausted their ability to dig deeper and declined to make a laundry list of all possible cuts in the operation of the city. And, yes, there are cuts that still need to happen. Are they going to wait until D-Day is here and then discover, oh yes, we could have ....... are they going to wait until the game is up, we are broke, and then ask for a miracle? They were not elected to sit on their hands. Are any of them brave enough to do the line by line and do what it is going to take to save the city. Why is it that they don't seem to have the inclination to ask the questions it will take to get the job done and do it now? It is now tough love time and we have a major part of the board trying to believe we can keep the city status quo by tweaking figures and bringing in new hands to toss around the same old figures. Did they not see the results of the tax increase on the ballot? Are they not able to translate this into some very serious action? Do they think yet another appointed board can come up with what they are not brave enough to come up with? Is the handwriting on the wall in invisible ink? Who are they fooling, they just want to pass the buck to this new board which is then supposed to take the bull by the horns and be the ones to convince us that we are desperate. What new miracle can this bunch of residents, 2 from each ward, do to put a new face on this problem? It is only going to waste time and drag it out until it is too late.
This BOA has just plain exhausted all faith. All they do is talk about the same things, toss around the same figures and dream about a great mall re-do. Denial, they are far beyond denial, they are so totally inept at doing anything but rearranging the chairs on the Titanic that it is pathetic. It is a total insult to think that appointments of residents on a board can absorb the "face the music" that has to be done. They don't have the insights and facts and figures needed to do this. The BOA does and it is their job to do so.They were elected to do the work that needs to be done and to dig deep enough to keep the city afloat. There is no book on how to save a city. But this Crestwood Board of Aldermen had better get busy and creative because if they think we are going to sit still for changing the intent of the tax increase that was passed to PAY OFF DEBT ONLY into one that they can run the city on, they are daft. Voters are not going to sit still being manipulated by yet another City Administrator, BOA, Mayor and whoever else they bring on to sell snake oil. This is a new world. You know, the world where if you want a bailout, you don't take a private jet to get it. When you can no longer get blood out of a turnip, you revert to realization! When one realizes that their city almost got a 14.5 M. $ city hall revamp a few years back well on the road to what we are facing today and the majority of the out of touch city board went for it - but were saved by a citizen group, well if that doesn't keep you up nights, nothing will.
Crestwood has more committes than St. Louis City and St. Louis County government together.
Why don't we just get rid of the Alderman, City Administrator and Mayor, and run the City by committe?
8:58 That's possible, but we would need a committee to implement the changes!
9:32 PM blogger: We have to pay for it because with the exception of two Aldermen (Miguel, and Nieder,) none of the rest of them have the chutzpah to craft an ordinance repealing the ordinance that crested this mess in the first place!
Face it, the Thomas Sappington House will not be moved no matter who owns it! The job of our leadership now is to take care of the here and now. The past is great, but as for now, well we just can't afford to spend the precious tax dollars on it!
I bet the State will take it for $1.00 and other considerations and we will still see it every day! That said, let's sell it before no-one want's it!
Tom Ford
I'll buy it for a buck.
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