Why red light cameras just don't work! (click here for report.)
As you may or may not know Crestwood is once again taking up the bright idea of "red light cameras" in our town! This was the bright idea of the revenue enhancement board, and is now being championed by Mr. Jim Eckrich as a "revenue enhancement" program!
If you look at the Board meeting schedule you will see that the Police Chief is going to give a power point presentation to the Board reference same next Tuesday. Now at first blush you may think well good, but is it? Our City is already on the National speed trap registry, and the cameras will cement this like nothing else.
I thought we wanted to bring shoppers into Crestwood (else why the tax holiday,) not drive them away (which all these items will surly do.) And by the way if you do a study on these programs as I have you will find the only people really making money is the camera company!
In my opinion this is a very ill conceived idea which will be a great detriment to Crestwood from the day it goes into effect, and I am asking my Alderman to vote against it. How about you?
Tom Ford
No. 652
If you look at the Board meeting schedule you will see that the Police Chief is going to give a power point presentation to the Board reference same next Tuesday. Now at first blush you may think well good, but is it? Our City is already on the National speed trap registry, and the cameras will cement this like nothing else.
I thought we wanted to bring shoppers into Crestwood (else why the tax holiday,) not drive them away (which all these items will surly do.) And by the way if you do a study on these programs as I have you will find the only people really making money is the camera company!
In my opinion this is a very ill conceived idea which will be a great detriment to Crestwood from the day it goes into effect, and I am asking my Alderman to vote against it. How about you?
Tom Ford
No. 652
posted by Crestwood Independent at 14:30
25 Comments:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29681527/page/2/
An adder to the mix on "red light cameras." If you would, please look into this for yourselves, and then you decide, do we need this?
Tom Ford
I will say this - if Crestwood gets red light cameras, and the light turns yellow, I am slamming on my brakes with all of my might.
A red light fine (at least in St. Louis City) averages $100!
5:12 PM blogger: So will everyone else! What the City makes in fines they will spend on Bic pens to write the accidents!
And then there will be the law suits. Just wait till the first "Blue hair" hit's, or is hit at a red light camera intersection, and out comes the lawyers!
Well, at least we will see if Rob Golterman can defend Crestwood from this debacle!
Tom Ford
Is the city planning to publish the yellow time for any "camera" intersections? And update any changes? If not, I guess it will be stop on yellow, since you won't know when it will change.
I think these companies have a bonanza here, as they make a big profit, and the cities get "free money". Some of their web sites also advertise their ability to ID wanted people in the car, and of course run plates for registration, and valid insurance.
Isn't this kind of like the police taking pictures of people in your house?
With all the talk of attracting families, and businesses to Crestwood, isn't this a step backward?
And yet another assessment from a town near here !
http://www.emissourian.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=20294125&BRD=1409&PAG=461&dept_id=33071&rfi=8
YEP, CRASHES UP (Imagine that.) Kill and injure as many as possible, but for Heavens sake make that money!
In a word "RIDICULOUS!"
Tom Ford
If the motive for the red light camera is safety I read an interesting article regarding yellow light timing in Fairfax, Va. In it, Eric Skrum, communications director for the National Motorists Association, said, "Records from Fairfax County show that increasing the time of yellow lights significantly decreases the number of red light violations. The Virginia Department of Transportation increased the yellow time on the traffic lights at US 50 and Fair Ridge Drive by 1.50 seconds on March 26, 2001. This increase in yellow time from 4.00 seconds to 5.50 seconds resulted in a 94 percent drop in citations, less than one per day, at this red light camera enforced location." You can find this article at www.motorists.org/photoenforce/home/red-light camera-citations-down/.
Steve Nieder
I believe the impetus behind this second attempt at installing red light cameras came from the recently-appointed revenue committee, thus it would appear that the goal is revenue.
It would be nice if, prior to any discussion about installing red light cameras, the city informed residents whether this is being done primarily as a revenue-enhancing project, or whether the main concern is safety. There are statistics available for both.
Martha Duchild
St. Louis Judge takes on red light cameras!
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/2C4FD50BE26BE675862575FD007CC930?OpenDocument
Well, he doesn't believe in them either, so off to court he goes! Can Crestwood really afford the legal expense we will be hit with?
Tom Ford
Some other questions about the cameras...does this company do all the mailing, and collecting, and follow up on the tickets? Does the city do all the paperwork? Won't this cost more?
Assuming that everyone will not just roll over and pay, can they request a trial? Won't this cost the city more?
On another subject, is there a law about stopping at the intersection before the light turns red? Given the choice between a large fine, or not wouldn't it be prudent to stop if the light is yellow?
And finally, in this time of recession (or depression) when many are loosing their houses, and running out of food before the end of the month, this one more idea to squeeze more money from the citizens of Crestwood SUCKS!!
John, this s "Bush league" at best!
Someone on the carport thread asked if we wanted to look like a "Peevely flea market," well I wonder if we want to look like a town in Georgia or L.A. (lower Arnold) where they are famous for this!
Email your Alderman (I am sending this thread to ALL of them,) and let them really know how you feel about this lame idea! They say they don't read the blog,well we shall see.
Tom ford
Make mONEy?????????
After reading the article from a nearby city it appears they almost break even. In my book the money is LEAVING TOWN AND NOT HELPING OUR REVENUE AT ALL!!!!!!!!!
I think the BOA etc. should understand the red light camera's are not good business and should table the issue permanently. Aftet all, a previous Crestwood BOA saw the light and stopped in 2007.
it is not against the law to run a yellow light.
3:09 PM blogger: No it is not, however you had best hustle as I timed the light in question, and while I may be off one tenth of a second, I got 3.4 seconds!
If this doesn't cause accidents, I don't know what will!
By the way, I have spoken to several Police officers who told me the accident rate due to red light running is nil at that intersection anyway.
Will we be treated to facts at the power point presentation at the meeting,or just "touche feely" from the "revenue committee? One wonders, no?
Tom Ford
All this mumble Jumble from so many has hardly come up with any alternative suggestions on how to stop those who continuously run red lights.If you say the Fox 2 news report on Monday you would have seen that the videos they utilized showed individuals approaching intersections where the light had already turned red and they drove through it anyway. In my opinion, red light cameras should be utilized for intersection safety purposes only. And to help prevent accidents, the State or county could create a delay between the red light and the green light for the cross traffic. Three (3) seconds is an adequate time to clear the intersection and if someone violates that scenario then they deserve a big fat ticket.
I have no problem with Red light tickets as long as the intersection is adequately marked as such.
Well, if you are traveling behind me and that light turns yellow at an intersection with red light cameras, I'm slamming on the brakes. A lot of other people will probably do the same thing.
How is the City going to pay for these cameras? I thought we were broke.
8:45 AM blogger: Three seconds is not enough time to clear THAT OR ANY OTHER INTERSECTION. There are a host of scenarios (bike rider pulling out in front of you, pedestrian stepping off the curb, ETC.)that can cause to get a ticket when all you were doing is the right thing!
But if you feel at peace with that so be it, but please do not come to us complaining when you receive your first ticket!
Tom Ford
Simple... Don't run a red light = don't get ticket. Hope the City takes it one step further and issues court dates for those who don't pay!
An open letter to the Crestwood Aldermen in attendance on 7/28/09!
Thank you all for the foresight to vote this dangerous idea down. I appreciate your due diligence in this matter!
Tom Ford
What the heck difference does it make if we do or don't have red light cameras and if they are for safety or generating revenue. We should be pleased to have both.
John,
You are the smartest person on this blog. Good question and comment. Someone please tell us what the Missouri Driving Handbook says to do when approaching an intersection. And yes, the state does have a red light law. If you drive through one you are subject to a ticket or an accident. At todays insurance deductable rates what would you rather pay $100.00 fine or a $2500. deductable, $100. fine and more on your insurance plus points on you license. Please just give me the red light ticket.
If I read the previous comment correctly I conclude the belief is that it is permissible to run the red light. The question is which option is the least expensive.
What??????????
I don't understand the logic
9:25
I don't think you did read the post correctly. I believe what they were saying was IF you ran a red light, which would be the least expensive. I think they were trying to say the red light ticket would be as long as you didn't cause an accident.
That makes no since either. Moving violations go against your insurance rates just like accidents.
Here is something I noticed about red light running.
Myself, and I hope, most people, would not knowingly run a red light.
But, in addition to all the things we have to watch while driving, there are the yellow light warning for the red light that is on for an unknown period of time. I looked all over, including writing to MODOT (no response) but all I could find was that they seem to set each light differently based on a study of the intersection. So how do we know if the yellow is three seconds, or thirty seconds?
There are at least two intersections in Crestwood where that problem is solved, but I believe that it is not intended for drivers, but for pedestrians.
These signals have, on the "walk/wait" signs, a countdown timer that displays the seconds left until the light changes. One of these is on Watson, and one is on Sappington.
With something like this, you know if you can continue at normal speed, or stop. You don't have to slam on your brakes at the last second.
I think one of these is on Watson, a few blocks west of the trail, and the other is on Sappington, a few blocks north of city hall.
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