From "Parade Magazine" today, "Can art save a mall?" (click here)
With thanks to Alderman Wallach, I am posting this for your review in case you do not get the Sunday paper.
Interesting to say the least, but a monthly rental of $100.00 is not going to so much for Crestwood's coffers. The letter is from a theatrical group who has asked me to help with the heating (I have,) and is asking anyone else to contribute if possible. If you do, please send your contribution to the address on the bottom of the letter, or call them.
I Thank you in advance for your help.
Tom Ford
NO. 694
posted by Crestwood Independent at 09:39
28 Comments:
$100 a month?? thast crazy!!It costs over a hundred dollars an hour to rent a room at the community center... Maybe they should lower their costs and make some $$ for the city.
Hard to lower cost's on a vacant building! What they have done is to make a bit back from empty spaces, and hopefully draw someone to the mall.
It's all they can do for now a the National economy will not get any better soon (17.5% un-employment,) and these health care / cap and tax idiot ideas brought on by you know who.
I fear the days of that place making money for Crestwood are over, no matter what they do! Even if they started renovating tomorrow it would be three to five years before the City saw any benefit.
The BOA MUST cut where possible (we have in Police and Fire,) and we must in other departments as well. We have to face stark reality, and part of that is animal control will have to go to county, we cannot afford $51,000.00 per year with no time card, call report's, or accountability in writing, not to mention the Cities liability should an un-trained volunteer become injured.
Tom Ford
Back when those guys paid $17 million for the mall, I thought that they over paid by $16.9 million. The $100/month rent just reflects how much of a economic sink hole the place is now.
I keep waiting for when the owners reach a point where pouring good money after bad forces them to bulldoze the place. If I were a bank, no way would I invest money in the place. So I think that any hope of redevelopment is a lost cause.
Now with regard to costs savings, some serious cost control is called for in these times. Yes, animal control is a logical first step. However, if volunteers want to help in that area, I do not understand the resistence to that idea. After all, I would hope that volunteerism is a core American value.
I must admit I am more undecided on if the police is the next place to cut. In my personal dealings with the police, I have not been impressed, at least the Detectives. Perhaps we no longer have detectives, so that point is may be moot. I also see police wasting time trying to catch "speeders" in those insanely low 15 mph speed limit streets. With regards to protection, buy a gun for your house is the answer in my opinion. So I have to say that I would not loose sleep over Crestwood contracting with another town for police.
Crestwood Independent wrote:
It's all they can do for now a the National economy will not get any better soon (17.5% un-employment,) and these health care / cap and tax idiot ideas brought on by you know who.
The fate of the mall is a lost cause regardless of the economy. Frankly there is too much retail that is built on spending by consumers living off of credit (i.e. that Housing ATM from the few years back). The effective unemployment rate is actually too low. Economically, what we really need is a depression to unwind the consumer and institutional spending binge of the last ten years. If free markets had been allowed to work, AIG and CitiBank would have been allowed to collapse (as they should have been). To fix things, we should be sitting at 30% unemployment. Thanks to Government intervention by G. Bush / H. Paulson (and their clones Obama / L. Summers), we taxpayers are now supporting a zombie financial system. For those of us with a lot of cash, we are getting slaughtered on unrealistic low interest rates (CD rates are under 1%). So in effect, I am paying a "tax" to bailout AIG, CitiBank, and those home defaulters. I still wonder where the free market conservatives were in the fall of 2008 when Bush launched us on TARP? Their silence was deafening.
10:26 PM blogger: They well may have been, but mine wasn't! A long time ago I found out that readers didn't want National politics on the blog, so I kept my rants off.
I did however write to every fool Congressman, Senator, and the White house to tell them that this idea was suicide (no response,) and sure enough it was, and is!
Tom Ford
Excellent writing John M.
While I agree that national economics is a mess we can influence the local entity we participate in every day.
Thanks to Tom for the professional manor by which he monitors this blog and shines the light on the works at Crestwood City Hall.
I just spent some time reading the proposed CY 2010 budget. I really wish it was in a searchable PDF format. As I mentioned in my earlier posting, one area to cut in the Police department (if it has not been done already) is any Detective staff. My personal experience with those guys was that they were worthless in actually solving crimes. I suspect that the county already has that service. So if Crestwood still has detectives, get rid of them.
Another area to get rid of is the municipal court. It looks like that costs around $140,000 / year. Now I know there is a county court system. Also given the recent data published how these city courts bargin away drunk driving charges, city courts are a danger to the public. If Crestwood raised their speed limits to a rational level, the need for speeding tickets would largely go away ... and any associated need for a standing city court. If the situation is that someone is driving drunk, then this case is way more serious than our city hall court should be handling.
Also, you may be able to get rid of the clerk that supports the municipal court ... though I have not analyzed the budget in a detail level to see if this has potential.
I also wonder if costs could be saved by volunteers mowing such areas as along Grant's trail. You could divide it up in sections like those "this section of highway trash picked up by xxx" programs. Heck, I like open prairies, so my suggestion is plant wildflowers and not even worry about mowing. Potential cost savings there.
Another area that has already been suggested is "no new bridge" in the Whitecliff park. In states like Colorado, hikers do not worry that every part of a park needs access by emergency vehicles. So I do not understand the concern. The argument of "doing for the children" because if they get hurt and emergency vehicles can not get there, that would be an issue. This is the same nanny state, bogus argument that drives all the insane number of stop signs we have and insane low speed limits like 15 mph. Same argument with regards to fire. Other states do not worry about having vehicle access to every part of a park that could burn.
If there is a fire in Whitecliff and no bridge to get to it, just contain it when it burns to the edge of the park.
If there is a net loss due to the lateral sewer program. Drop that tax and drop the program. That would be a net gain. I have no problem with every home owner being on the hook for sewer and water pipe problems at the start of their property line. If home owner can not stand that risk, then they should not be a home owner.
Finally, eliminate any costs for economic development groups or promotions. Given the economic forces at work in the county, these are a lost cause and a waste of money.
JohnM
JohnM
How does the lateral sewer plan cost the city money?
Hmmmm....no response on "John's" idea to get rid of Crestwood Police...
PLEASE NOTE
I post as John.
The person who posts as JohnM is a different person, and not to be confused with me.
He has EXTREMELY different views on things than I do. However, anyone has a right to post their views.
PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE US.
I am very PRO Police, and Fire Department.
Thank you.
For some reason, my first posting of this reply was lost by Google. This is the second retry.
"The person who posts as JohnM is a different person, and not to be confused with me."
I am changing my name to JohnMX to avoid mistakes.
Anonymous Wrote:
"JohnM
How does the lateral sewer plan cost the city money?"
I had read something a while back in The Call newspaper about the lateral sewer fund running short of money. Crestwood was then having to shift funds from other areas to cover the shortfall. If that is not the case, I would withdraw my recommendation.
John wrote:
" am very PRO Police, and Fire Department"
I am very pro law enforcement and for harsh punishment of real crimes. For example, I think we should use the death penalty for drug drivers that crash and kill someone. I also believe that many more police should be armed with automatic weapons for areas that deal with gangs such as St. Louis.
I agree that because of the budget situation, that animal control should be shutdown. The animal control is redundant with county services. However, the same cold, hard cost benefit analysis should be applied to other areas like the police, fire, and municipal courts.
My recommendations on the police are based on logic and data from my personal experience. In the past, the size of our police force was driven by having to support the mall. However, I do not think we have to worry much about shoplifting any more in the Crestwood mall. Logic tells you that just that one case means that cutbacks in police should be made.
Rather than real crime enforcement, I personally know of cases where police are picking up speeders doing 20 mph in a 15 mph zone. Another case was last summer when the police spent time picking up neighborhood cats and dropping them off at animal control. It took awhile for the people to figure out where their pets had disappeared to. That is empirical evidence that we have way too many police officials with too much free time to think up things to do.
With regards to Crestwood detectives, they were worthless in solving a crime that affected me. Heck they knew the kid that did the crime, but the Town & Country kid's lawyer had our Crestwood Detectives dropping the whole thing in fear. Completely worthless performance.
John wrote:
"He has EXTREMELY different views on things than I do."
I thought you were a conservative like me? At least to all the post I have been reading on this blog over the last several months. By extremely different from you that you mean that I apply the same cost/benefit analysis logic to police department that you (and I) apply to the animal control, then you are correct. By extreme you mean I favor rational traffic regulations rather than the nanny state approach, you are right. Your comments make be unsure about your views. Perhaps you are one of these "we need to do it for the safety of the children types".
"What ifs" with regards to the maintaining the current level of police because of so called safety concerns are pure emotion. A very liberal mind set. I like to use rational facts rather than emotional attachment to people's "pet areas" like the police.
By extreme you mean that I do not think my tax dollars should go to pay for water and sewer infrastructure on people's private home property, I guess you are also right.
Yeah, those are extreme views. Makes me wonder what your views really are?
JohnMX
"Makes me wonder what your views really are?"
First of all, I don't lock myself into any label such as liberal, conservative, tree hugger, radical, law and order, or scofflaw.
I will give my views on a number of our current issues:
Do NOT cut the Fire Department any more.
Do NOT cut the Police any more than the two attritions already planned.
Make it a rule that the Police CANNOT do any animal control (except in emergency like an animal attacking a person) and to call county animal control.
Get rid of everything related to local animal control by NLT end of year.
Make the Mayor follow Roberts Rules as was passed by the BOA.
Most speed limits seem OK to me, but there are a few strange ones here, and there. I do think the enforcement is a little lax though.
Someone who knows the Mayor well, should whisper in his ear that some of his rants make him look silly.
I don't think the mall will ever get back to where it was...the City should just plan on getting by without it.
Discussion boards like this one are a very good thing, especially with a good owner/moderator like Tom. We can talk about all kinds of things with no fear of retribution, or harassment. (Thanks Tom!)
Well thats all for now...have to go back for fourths.
John wrote:
"I will give my views on a number of our current issues:
Do NOT cut the Fire Department any more.
Do NOT cut the Police any more than the two attritions already planned."
You are correct that everyone is allowed an opinion. Now we know yours. If your opinion is based on emotion, so be it. It is a free country.
I, however, like to make my recommendations based on logic rather than emotion, on observation rather than irrational feelings. You have offered neither logic nor reasons for your opinions. Fine that is your right.
However, I'll offer additional evidence that supports my position. I grew up on a city in Iowa that had approximately the same population as Crestwood. We got by just fine.
Given the low level of crime in our area, there is no reason for more that two police officers for the whole city of Crestwood.
Now the fire department. Once we got back from vacation. Upon arrival to our house, I smelled some small bit of oder in the basement. I called Laclede Gas to come out and take a look. In the meantime, I go up to the Crestwood City Hall to tell the dispatch officer that we were back. (By the way, I asked my neighbors if they saw any extra patrol cars going by while we were on vacation. Nothing extra. I do not even bother this this "service" by our police department anymore)
Well anyway, my mistake was that I mentioned our local Crestwood dispatcher that Laclede Gas coming out to look at my basement.
Now I arrive back home. The next thing I know I hear the fire engines coming down the street plus a parade of police cars. A full engine company of fire fighters goes crashing into my house with their God knows how expensive chemical detection gear. I did not even freaking call the fire department!!! The idiot dispacher sent them without my permission. Of course they found nothing and the Laclede Gas Company guy could not believe it. I can take care of my own home issues with out the Crestwood Fire Department Storm Troopers crashing my house. It was on that night that I saw for my own eyes how much a waste our fire department is of my tax dollars.
So my views are based on evidence. After you posted, I went back and read all your other postings from the last six months. It appears your support for the police is based on response time. As I mentioned above, I grew up in a similar size town and we did not leave in fear of the police getting there too late (given on patrol nomially one car on duty at a given time).
If you live with the fear that the police will not get there in time, I understand your opinion from a psychological standpoint.
I am very glad that I grew up in Iowa where we learned to support ourselves. I feel sorry for people who need to feel the security that a Government official (which is what a police officer ultimately is) is constantly just a few blocks away from their home.
JohnMX
John & JohnM
While it is difficult to learn the lesson of less is good the mall revenue decline has forced rationalization on this city. City Hall will continue to fight reorganization because constant growth is how government justifies its existence. The FUD factor (fear, uncertainty and doubt) is the weapon chosen. Self reliance is not applauded.
Please thank the 2006-2009 BOA that initiated the reorganization.
10:27 PM blogger: "JohnMX,+
"Well anyway, my mistake was that I mentioned our local Crestwood dispatcher that Laclede Gas coming out to look at my basement."
Yep it was an "errant" request for help you made there. I would hope that when you told the dispatcher that you smelled gas, she would send all the available assistance!
Great job on her part my friend! Now as to the Police being there in the nick of time, don't count on it. Let's face it, at some point you will have to defend yourself, they cannot rationally be expected to be "omnipresent," as apparently the dog catcher is.
Now there you have cold hard facts, the odds of the police being in front of your home when you NEED them are zero, so I suggest you become trained in the use of force, so you can do the fending off till they get there.
One other area is your mention of the "vacation watch" program. I my neighborhood we tell each other were going out of town, and we watch out for each other. May I suggest you attend a neighborhood watch meeting to see how they do it?
Remember, just because your neighbor did not see the police there doesn't mean they weren't, they don't come on a schedule, but believe me they do check on it, I know that for a fact!
Tom Ford
Mr Ford wrote:
"Yep it was an "errant" request for help you made there. I would hope that when you told the dispatcher that you smelled gas, she would send all the available assistance!
Great job on her part my friend!"
That is your opinion. Fine. It is a free country. Funny, however, I seemed to keep reading in your posts about self-reliance. I can take care of my own home problems, thank you. Laclede Gas Company and I were taking care of any unlikely issue. Perhaps you trust our local nanny state Crestwood to "help" more than I do. Again, if it is a free country and if you feel emotionally better in your daily living about having redundant local busy-body police and fire, then good for you.
And here's some more facts for you. Our local storm troopers ended up standing around my yard until the Laclede Gas company guy arrived. Their God-knows how expensive chemical detection device was not working. Now I could tell by my own chemical detect device (called a nose) that there was no gas at this point, but I warn you don't try to reason with our local fire department "experts".
The Laclede Gas guy just shook his head at the obvious incompetent behavior of our Crestwood fire department. He also said there was no safety issues (which of course I knew already). Given my technical background, I could already tell them that the gas was not natural gas, but methane from the sewer drain in the basement.
So you know what the fire department also ended up doing, they called Laclede Gas anyway.
Of course I had already taken care of that and was dealing with the situation. So there was my tax dollars at work supporting six or seven guys plus $100s of thousands of equipment in my front yard. From your statement, you appear to think that this is a good use of tax dollars. Perhaps you are not as conservative as I thought.
So my opinion is based on the fact that I was there. Your statements are based on ... well I guess you weren't there.
Where I grew up, the fire department was volunteer, and it worked just fine. I have never understood the need of urban people to use tax dollars to pay for Government officials to stand guard 24/7 for fighting fires.
Your comments of support for the dispatcher and our fire department reflect someone who has grown up in an urban area. I understand how this could blind you to the alternative of lower costs of getting rid of the fire department and going to a volunteer force. There are towns across rural America that do this every day.
JohnMX
JohhMX
How did the volunteer fire dept you grew up with fund itself?
Anonymous wrote:
"How did the volunteer fire dept you grew up with fund itself?"
Equipment was funded via the standard mechanisms such as property taxes. The savings was that you did not have to pay any salaries for the fire fighters. The other savings was that you did not have to provide living quarters for the full time fire fighters and expendables such as food. You did provide for a storage facility for the fire equipment plus a phone system that activated the phones of volunteers when their was a fire. So the costs are not zero, but there is considerable savings compared to having paid employees of the Government.
JohnMX
John Mx,
It sounds like you long for the county again, such as when you grew up in Iowa. This isn't a dig on you but it sounds like you really have a axe to grind with the police esp, the Detectives. You know there is such a thing called evidence. I'm sure they would have done all they could if it was possible or reasonable.
I've met a lot of folks in this town that will not be happy no matter what you do for them or give them. You sound like one of those people. Who knows, maybe your dream will come true and Crestwood will be no more. Have a good day...
JohnMX is just stirring the pot. I actually get a chuckle out of his comments. Let me ask a question. If you have these complaints about our Police and Fire Departments being unprofessional or whatever, why not file a formal complaint with each occurance. I seriously doubt the validity of any of your claims. Just to get you up to speed on Laclede Gas POLICY, if you were to call them and say that you have an odor in or around your residence or business, even if you tell them you think it is not an emergency and does not warrant emergency responders, they (that being Laclede Gas)request them anyway. Lacled Gas does not trust your "nose" sir. Even if the Fire Department wanted to leave they can't until they are told they can by Laclede Gas. You see Mr. MX, I am a Laclede Gas employee and also a resident of Crestwood. I keep my eye on things going on in this city because I'm a concerned taxpayer. I also from time to time look at this site and usually shake my head in disbelief of alot of what is complained about. But never before have I read something so ridiculous as your baseless claims. The only thing I can figure is your a complete B*ll Shi**rr (sorry Tom, I had to). I'm appalled to think a Laclede Gas worker would act in such a way so I will investigate this "incident" although I doubt it happened and if it did I bet it went down alot differently than what you describe. You may want to retreat to the conservative cornfields.
1:33 PM blogger: Well my friend some times normal words fail me also, I understand!
I am also beginning to understand where that acronym for Iowa ( I.O.W.A.,I owe the world an apology) came from.
I guess JOHNMX doesn't understand that Communities are formed for three reasons, Police, Fire, Public Works. Every thing else, such as the dog catcher is icing on the cake.
But then again maybe he believes in the Groucho Marx comment, "I would never be a member of any club that would have me as a member."
JOHNMX all kidding aside, we still love you, and we all enjoy your posts, so please jump in anytime you so desire
Tom Ford
I'm appalled to think a Laclede Gas worker would act in such a way so I will investigate this "incident" although I doubt it happened and if it did I bet it went down alot differently than what you describe. You may want to retreat to the conservative cornfields.
Well then it was my mistake in how I misunderstood him. The only thing I can think of is that his comments about Laclede Gas does the calling I took for the Fire Department getting involved when they were not supposed to. I must admit, I was tired after a day of flying. So I was not in a good mood before everything broke loose and pretty angry about having to deal with the whole thing after a long trip. I will admit that this would have had a impact on how I saw things go down.
I have to say that I was happy with the Laclede Gas employee performance. No complaints there and I got nothing but good help from him.
I did not realize that Laclede Gas policy was to involve also the local fire department. You have therefore correctly pointed out I was in the wrong about this incident with regards to the fire department getting involved. If everyone was following procedure, then I want to sincerely apologize to both the Crestwood Fire Departement and Laclede Gas. Based on your information about how the procedures work, then I intrepted this whole incident in the wrong way.
Again I apologize in this case in that I must have been in the wrong.
JohnMX
To JohnMX,
First you asked: "Makes me wonder what your views really are?"
Then, after I gave you my views, you said: "You have offered neither logic nor reasons for your opinions."
Of course, you didn't ask for those.
You sound like a person who is never happy with any situation, no matter what. All of your anecdotes describe people doing their job as they are supposed to do, but not as YOU want it done. I think you are pining for the good old days back home, and Crestwood is not it.
Some of your rants rang a bell, and I finally figured it out...has anyone read the book, or seen the movie "The Caine Mutiny"?
Mr Ford wrote:
"JOHNMX all kidding aside, we still love you, and we all enjoy your posts, so please jump in anytime you so desire"
Many of the responders of my postings rightly pointed out how negative I was coming across. I went back and re-read what I had written, and they were right. I have been reading blogs for years and only recently started to post.
In my defense, but not excuse, several years of frustration came out which individually should have not been that big a deal. Down deep, I have always believed that you should come up with postive ideas. My frustrations with a few incidents and national events ended up causing me to post some negative opinions and intreptations on some events that I went through. I thank some of you for holding up a mirror. Sometimes when one keeps things to themselves, they become distorted.
Therefore, I will stop posting. Thank you for your work and blog. I was just wrong in using it to vent some frustrations.
JOHNMX, you do not strike me as a man who gives up that easy my friend. Good grief, look at the slings and arrows I have had to endure for speaking my piece!
I said we all enjoy your post's, and I meant it, so keep on keeping on!
If you want, or need to vent, so be it, but never, ever give up posting here. Remember the Latin phrase, "Illigitimus Non-Carborundum" and push on!
By the way, Iowa is a very good State for Pheasant hunting, and I have had the pleasure of being there several times.
Tom Ford
"if you were to call them and say that you have an odor in or around your residence or business, even if you tell them you think it is not an emergency and does not warrant emergency responders, they (that being Laclede Gas)request them anyway. Lacled Gas does not trust your "nose" sir. Even if the Fire Department wanted to leave they can't until they are told they..."
Is that official Laclede Gas Policy???
I have called Laclede Gas more than a couple of times (here and for my business in another municipality) and not once did the fire department show up.
Emergency Services
All this talk about fire, and police brought back memories from many years ago, that are one of the reasons I am so glad that we have a professional, well trained, and full time Fire, and Police department.
For several years I lived in a small town with several police officers (one was the chief) with a few reserve, or volunteers. There was one fire dept. person who usually drove the one truck. His wife answered the emergency phone at their house 24/7. The fire chief was a volunteer.
I worked at the small hospital in town. We were trying to set up a coordinated emergency/disaster plan coordinating all emergency services, with the ambulances run by the hospital, and the hospital itself.
The first problem we ran into was that we had to have two of every meeting since the police, and fire chiefs hated each other, and would not be in the same room together. They would also not agree to either one being in charge, or to any ideas by the other one. So we set up a plan coordinated by a person at the hospital. Before this plan was fully working, I moved away, so I hope it worked in the end. All these people were good people, and cared about the town, and citizens, but we noticed some problems.
The police seemed to work on an irregular schedule. Sometimes you couldn't find them.
Normally on a fire call, the one employee "brought the truck" since he lived across the street. If the call was south, he waited for the guys from the north, and brought them. And vice-versa if it was in the north. The big problem came when he was on vacation, or taking some time off. One of the other guys was supposed to bring the truck, but being waken up at night, sometimes forgot. So a bunch of guys arrived at the fire with their personal gear but no truck...and somone had to go get it. Several times at a car wreck, the ambulance people (from the hospital), and the fire people, who were both trained to extricate victims actually fought over who would get to use their new tools.
This sounds like a comedy show, but imagine if you were the wreck victim, or your house was burning, or if there was a big disaster in town.
This is why I am glad we in Crestwood have full time, professional, well trained, dedicated, Fire Fighters, Paramedics, and Police Officers!
In all the years I have lived in Crestwood, I have only had to call on these people a few times, and I could not be more pleased with help they gave me and my family.
Dear Tom,
I know that I said I would not post any more. However, I needed to to this one last note. I have re-read many times my opinions from a few days ago. All I can say that I am ashamed and embarressed. I got caught up in a point/counterpoint with you and John and I let wrote some opinions on events that we really about nothing.
I want to let you know that I do know that people like the Crestwood fire fighters were just doing their job. And I know that they are there for helping people and are kind when things do happen. I can only say that I would ask their forgiveness. Trying to emphasis a, and I will say wrong, opinion on what I assumed people thought (such as Laclede Gas guy); ended up as one poster said a rediculous sounding post. After re-reading what I posted in haste I was surprised, I would say that actually I came off as a complete and total jerk. I am reality not like that person, so I am very, very ashamed and I will never do such a thing again.
I would also say that I was not civil in my exchanges with you and John, so I am sorry about that.
So this will be my last post.
Good luck on you site and your efforts to make things better for all of Crestwood
JohnMX
7:06 PM: Blogger: JohnMX, I am glad you posted again my friend, remember that politics in America is supposed to be a very lively discourse!
Trust me there is no apology necessary from you as I understand how passion can fuel a fire. I was in fact happy to see that passion for what you believed in, and I applaud it.
Believe me, if I thought for one minute that you were just being a "troll" I would have hit the delete switch, and POOF, no JohnMX. That didn't happen, so you can see no one here was offended.
The problem with you not positing again is a sad one for me, and others here on this blog as we will miss having a resident who is not afraid to speak his mind, and we will miss that passion mentioned above.
I hope you will see your way clear to continue to post, maintain that passion that you have shown, and help us all to give suggestions for a better Crestwood.
This is our home town now, so let's all fight for her, and make suggestions when we feel it to be necessary!
Tom Ford
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