From "letters to the editor, South County Times" newspaper today's edition.
“Important” To Keep Crestwood Animal Control
"A recent incident involving the family of a neighbor illustrates the importance of keeping our Crestwood Animal Control service rather than turning to St. Louis County Animal Services.
My neighbor's daughter, who lives in unincorporated St. Louis County, had two young boys who had a pit bull staying with her family. One day, that dog attacked her family's own two dogs. When her teenage daughters and the two boys tried to pull the pit bull away, they were injured. One girl, as well as the two boys, had to be taken to the emergency room by ambulance. The other girl was taken by her mother, who had also been bitten. Both of the family dogs had to have veterinary care, and one of them was seriously injured.
St. Louis County Animal Control did come to the house and removed the pit bull. Several days later, however, when my neighbor called St. Louis County to ask if the boys would be able to get the dog back, she was told that, if the father, who was the official owner of the dog paid the required fee, it would be returned to him. My neighbor then asked Crestwood Animal Control if that would be allowed in Crestwood and was told that it would not.
Incidents such as this demonstrate the problems which will occur if Crestwood turns over its animal concerns to St. Louis County. No one was killed in this case, but serious injuries did occur. Since the pit bull will presumably return to its owner, there is nothing to prevent its causing similar or worse incidents in the future. Keeping Crestwood Animal Control is an important safety issue for both animals and people!"
Elaine C. Moser
Crestwood
February 04, 2010
Now this is exactly the type of emotional rhetoric I have been talking about. I thank the Lady for pointing it out so beautifully for me.
Ms. Moser states that her neighbor's daughter in the County had a problem with a dog they took in (Read all about it above.) Se further states that St. Louis county came and removed the "vicious?" animal and took it to county (that's what they are supposed to do.)
Now here is where I get a bit lost as the system worked perfectly (Bringing in the dog was the flaw, not County!) Yet she states that "Incidents such as this demonstrate the problems which will occur if Crestwood turns over its animal concerns to St. Louis County" Incidents like what? Is Ms. Moser saying that had the family been in Crestwood this NEVER would have happened? Is she telling us that Ms. Sutton would have experienced a "harmonic convergence," and rushed to the scene before it happened?
As I have said before Ms. Sutton is afforded "cult status" by her followers (which is fine with me) but please don't attempt to tell us that "IF ONLY" things would have been different! I like many others are saddened to see any child injured but Ms. Sutton could not have prevented this any more than Ms. Moser did. This was a sad ending to a family who attempted to help two young children and a dog, nothing more, nothing less!
Ms. Moser, I regret to inform you that this will not be the norm in Crestwood if the BOA does the right thing and removes this duplicate position. As you told us the dog could be returned to it's owner, and it should be.
An animal will attempt to establish the ALPHA dog in the "pack mentality," and I believe this is exactly what happened here, the problem was two Lab's and one Pit Bull in the same space, not County animal control, and Ms. Sutton certainly can't change nature, or can she?
Now I suggest that you (and the dog's owner) thank goodness that the Neighbor's daughter didn't live in Webster Groves or Kirkwood as they would have shot the dog (according to Mayor Robinson!) Oh wait, he retracted that one didn't he, sorry!
By the way, stories like this usually make the News or the Post Dispatch right? How is it that no-one I have talked to today had ever heard of this happening? Just curious.
Tom Ford
NO. 723
"A recent incident involving the family of a neighbor illustrates the importance of keeping our Crestwood Animal Control service rather than turning to St. Louis County Animal Services.
My neighbor's daughter, who lives in unincorporated St. Louis County, had two young boys who had a pit bull staying with her family. One day, that dog attacked her family's own two dogs. When her teenage daughters and the two boys tried to pull the pit bull away, they were injured. One girl, as well as the two boys, had to be taken to the emergency room by ambulance. The other girl was taken by her mother, who had also been bitten. Both of the family dogs had to have veterinary care, and one of them was seriously injured.
St. Louis County Animal Control did come to the house and removed the pit bull. Several days later, however, when my neighbor called St. Louis County to ask if the boys would be able to get the dog back, she was told that, if the father, who was the official owner of the dog paid the required fee, it would be returned to him. My neighbor then asked Crestwood Animal Control if that would be allowed in Crestwood and was told that it would not.
Incidents such as this demonstrate the problems which will occur if Crestwood turns over its animal concerns to St. Louis County. No one was killed in this case, but serious injuries did occur. Since the pit bull will presumably return to its owner, there is nothing to prevent its causing similar or worse incidents in the future. Keeping Crestwood Animal Control is an important safety issue for both animals and people!"
Elaine C. Moser
Crestwood
February 04, 2010
Now this is exactly the type of emotional rhetoric I have been talking about. I thank the Lady for pointing it out so beautifully for me.
Ms. Moser states that her neighbor's daughter in the County had a problem with a dog they took in (Read all about it above.) Se further states that St. Louis county came and removed the "vicious?" animal and took it to county (that's what they are supposed to do.)
Now here is where I get a bit lost as the system worked perfectly (Bringing in the dog was the flaw, not County!) Yet she states that "Incidents such as this demonstrate the problems which will occur if Crestwood turns over its animal concerns to St. Louis County" Incidents like what? Is Ms. Moser saying that had the family been in Crestwood this NEVER would have happened? Is she telling us that Ms. Sutton would have experienced a "harmonic convergence," and rushed to the scene before it happened?
As I have said before Ms. Sutton is afforded "cult status" by her followers (which is fine with me) but please don't attempt to tell us that "IF ONLY" things would have been different! I like many others are saddened to see any child injured but Ms. Sutton could not have prevented this any more than Ms. Moser did. This was a sad ending to a family who attempted to help two young children and a dog, nothing more, nothing less!
Ms. Moser, I regret to inform you that this will not be the norm in Crestwood if the BOA does the right thing and removes this duplicate position. As you told us the dog could be returned to it's owner, and it should be.
An animal will attempt to establish the ALPHA dog in the "pack mentality," and I believe this is exactly what happened here, the problem was two Lab's and one Pit Bull in the same space, not County animal control, and Ms. Sutton certainly can't change nature, or can she?
Now I suggest that you (and the dog's owner) thank goodness that the Neighbor's daughter didn't live in Webster Groves or Kirkwood as they would have shot the dog (according to Mayor Robinson!) Oh wait, he retracted that one didn't he, sorry!
By the way, stories like this usually make the News or the Post Dispatch right? How is it that no-one I have talked to today had ever heard of this happening? Just curious.
Tom Ford
NO. 723
posted by Crestwood Independent at 15:41
37 Comments:
as is the norm, the point was completely missed here. The point of the letter as I read it, stated that in Crestwood the dog would not have been allowed to be returned to the owner, whereas St. Louis county, even knowing what happened, gave it back. WHY the dog did what it did is irrelevant. How it was handled after is what the writer seemed to be getting at.
5:26 PM blogger: Well you could look at it like that, but the owner is just that, the owner! He knows the dog's temperament, not us so what's the problem returning the dog?
The dog does not have a history of attacking (that we know of) so why not return it?
If I come to your home and your pet gerbil bites me shall we have it killed?
Sorry but the point of this "timely" letter was to glorify Ms. Sutton and the animal adoption volunteers and you and I both know it!!
Tom Ford
well, it might be a different matter if my gerbil attacked me. The dog, as I understood it, attacked its own people.
And make no mistake, if Ms. Sutton had stated that she felt it would be fine for the dog to be returned after the attack, this blog, from the bit I've read, would be up in arms and shouting about her incompetence. It has amazed me as I read these threads how there is NO option other than yours. Ms. Sutton could not possibly have made any statement that would have suited anyone here. Credit where it's due never seems to be practiced here. What a shame.
7:29 PM blogger: Well, it might, but are we sure of this story? There are no facts to support the story, no corroboration by any news service in the area, and no name to check!
Now as to the "poor Ms. Sutton" part of your missive, I would like to point out that she would have returned the dog (or possibly suffered a law suit) so your point there is moot!
When it come to Ms. Sutton and animal adoption, I am completely non-plussed! I have (since the start) said IF THE CITY WANTS MORE MONEY FROM US, They must eliminate "duplicate services," and this is one for sure!
Ms. Sutton may well be the second coming, but right now we cannot afford her or the "adoption agency," get it?
Tom Ford
Ladys and gentlemen. The article does not provide enough information to conclude anything.
The articles are written to sell newspapers and increase readership enabling the paper to sell advertisement.
The incident is the responsiblity of the individuals involved and if they cannot reach an agreement then the court of law is the next course of action. This explains the St. Louis County response which is appropriate.
Susy Sutton is not a judge or jury and her counsel is useless as it is only her opinion.
Please put Ms. Sutton in retirement and let this GOD OF THE ANIMALS work her magic elswhere.
Ms. Moser,
You said in your TIMES letter, that Ms. Sutton said she would have shot, had Police shoot, or euthanized the pit bull in your story, without regard for the wishes of the owner. I find this hard to believe. Maybe Ms. Sutton can post and verify this policy?
If the facts in your letter are correct, your neighbor's daughter should be charged with child endangerment, and animal abuse.
She took two young kids and their large dog into her house.
She had two kids, and two large dogs in her house.
She was the only adult present.
The pit bulls owner was not involved at all.
She did not talk to the pit bulls owner about this plan.
Am I the only one who can see that this is a recipe for disaster?
Two kids, and their dog brought into the territory of two kids, and their two dogs. One adult(?) present?
She is responsible for the injuries to people, and dogs.
How is the pit bulls owner responsible?
It doesn't matter where this happened...Crestwood or County, the same thing would have happened. Did you ask if Crestwood animal control would also euthanize the other two dogs involved?
By what authority would Crestwood have been allowed not to return the pit bull to it's owner?
John, this is the new way of dealing with things. BLAME SOMEONE ELSE!
No, your not the only one who could see it by a long shot my friend, but then again, gee it's George Bush's fault, or St. Louis County at least don't you know!
The truth here is that the "friends of Susie" will do and say anything to keep this drain on our coffers.
My kingdom for a Board with the courage to do the right thing and end this animal adoption agency (on the public dole) for once and for all!
Ladies, if you want to continue this, PAY FOR IT YOURSELVES! After all it's only $61K per year (at least!) If you have 20 members it's ONLY $3050.00 per year for each of you, and you get Ms. Sutton as a bonus to boot!
Tom Ford
Tom Ford
It is obvious that many are passionate about animal control. But as has been the case in this community for decades, we are consumed with those issues that have little meaning in the big picture. I agree there are many areas that require an honest question be asked of ourselves. What can we live without to weather this economical storm? Many companies have made those same tough decisions. There have been temporary salary reductions, temporary benefit reductions, temporary service reductions, employees taking a week off without pay, companies temporarily suspending company matches to employees 401K plans, and positions eliminated until the economy improves and they can again be reinstated. Perhaps our BOA should look at some of these options short term. Nothing has to be permanent. And noone should be exempt, not even the BOA. In the end everyone should be happy just to have a job and not be one of the 10% now unemployed in this country. Afterall, your still better off than if you weree collecting unemployment compensaation. We need to concentrate on what we can control rather than worrying about what we have no control over.
There will come a time when the economy will rebound to the point where development will recover and we will have the ability to reinstate some of the services suspended or put off.
Clapping,Clapping and still Clapping. Very well stated 11:18 and certainly some food for thought.
11:18 Blogger
All of those suggestions where offered to the BOA and Administration three years ago by former alderman Steve Nieder in a letter. I believe the actions where dismissed until the tax payers refused to raise their taxes.
What happened to former aldermen Nieder? Maybe if the BOA etc. had acted has suggested perhaps we would be in a better financial position.
11:18 AM Blogger: Bravo from the moderator as well!
Under the wooda, coulda, shoulda column we can say that had Alderman Nieder been listened to this may not have been necessary, but alas some thought they knew more than he.
You know we just handed out a $5,000.00 bonus, raise, or whatever to an office employee with in the past week or two! What's up with that I wonder?
The average citizen of Crestwood has had to make cut's in our day to day affairs, why not City Hall? Oh wait they are using our money aren't they! All we ever hear from local, county, state, and the federal government is we need more money for? What about us? Who do we turn to?
The time is long past when we can continue to spend, spend and spend! Mayor Robinson and the Board in concert with Mr. Jim Eckrich MUST make the needed changes if we are to survive, get it boy's and girl's and your Honor?
Tom Ford
12:45 PM Blogger: Well Steve Nieder is once again on the ballot this April, and he is NOT a tax and spend guy by any means!
His opponent is however that type as he has backed every tax increase (and suggested a few of his own) since being elected three years ago.
Alderman John Foote is a gentleman beyond reproach with a working knowledge of what it takes to run a City, as is Mr. Steve Nieder, the major difference is the increased tax mentality as I see it.
Tom Ford
8:19 AM Blogger: The dog would have been returned as Ms. Sutton has zero authority to deny it to it's rightful owner.
She may have tried to keep it , but she would have failed miserably as the law is firmly on the side of the owner, and by the way EVERY DOG IN MISSOURI get's one free bite. After that, well.
Tom Ford
Tom,
So Crestwood would have done the same thing St. Louis County did in this story, return the dog to its owner.
BUT, the letter writer states that she was told by Crestwood's Animal Control that would NEVER had happen in Crestwood!
Are we dealing with a liar letter writer, or a letter writer who was lied to by Crestwood officals not named? Or both?
Anonymous 9:58pm
"...it would be returned to him. My neighbor then asked Crestwood Animal Control if that would be allowed in Crestwood and was told that it would not.
Elaine C. Moser
Crestwood"
I guess the only ones who know are Ms. Moser's neighbor or the person from Crestwood animal control.
I wonder if we will hear from either of them?
Is this the same Elaine C. Moser that received subsidies from the USDA and petitioned for the repeal of the consumer safety act of 2008?
Mr. Ford
I am sorry but I cannot share your endorsement of Mr. Neider as being equal to Alderman Foote. Mr. Foote has been a gentleman and conducted himself in a very professional manner. I cannot say the same for Mr. Neider.
9:58 PM Blogger: I believe were dealing with a "friend of Susie" who is wrapped up in the "cult worship" mystique that seems to surrounds her.
Just look at what some of them have said in the past, "Susie could tell the difference between Rabbis and distemper from a distance!" And my favorite, "without Susie there would be hundreds of feral cats running loose in Crestwood."
Even "his honor" has said that animals "coming from Grant's Farm" could menace us!
As John said, we may never know, but one thing is for sure, the "friends of Susie" scare the heck out of "his honor" and some on the Board!
Tom Ford
Over run with feral cats, my backside.
8:35 AM Blogger: You are correct concerning Alderman Foote, as I said he is a Gentleman, and very knowledgeable on City affairs.
The only negative is the tax and spend posture, he has take up stance being elected such as the bridge in Whitecliff Park (I believe that could have waited until we are in better financial shape.)
You see I happen to believe we are ALL taxed to the hilt as we speak, and we sure do not need any more.
I thank the Lord that we still have the right to vote, and I hope you will use it on election day.
Tom Ford
Tom Ford
I person who cannot take the time to spell the name correctly (NIEDER not NEIDER) cannot be taken seriously.
I have been told this is a Republicans only blog, so I have never commented. I do look sometimes, though, and had to leave a small comment. I have been to a few meetings from time to time, both when Mr. Nieder was an alderman and when he was in the audience. I have also watched Mr. Foote conduct city business. While I do not always agree with everything Mr. Foote says, he has always conducted him self in a respectful, courteous manner. The same cannot be said for Mr. Nieder. He, outwardly, is rude to the point of being boorish, disrespectful, and patronizing. I do not know him personally, and he may be a very different person in his private life. I really hope he is. His arrogance fills a room in seconds. I would support Mr. Foote all the way. How someone looks, how they walk, etc can and should never be questioned, because it's what people can't help. How someone speaks to others is a choice. Mr. Nieder could take a lesson from Mr. Foote in that area.
4:51 pm Blogger: "I have been told this is a Republicans only blog, so I have never commented."
Nope, this is a blog for you and all of us to comment. Thank you for sharing your concerns, and I hope you will post in the future!
Crestwood is not Republican or Democrat that I have ever seen, but it is (or used to be) Conservative in nature.
We welcome you aboard, and please continue to post.
Tom Ford
Having read the story of the grasshoper and the ant, I could not help but assume this is a Republican blog. I had thought it was about Crestwood and Independent. Live and Learn.
7:25 PM Blogger: NO, it's a Crestwood blog! Do you see Republican or Democrat beside anything on here? No you don't, do you.
If what you read in the "Ant and the Grasshopper offends you, well call your Washington Representatives and tell them to stop! After all the Democrats have been in charge for the last three years, not me!
Just one question though, after you have looked at your stock portfolio, your home's net worth, the cost of EVERYTHING, the cap and trade idiocy, and health care, Hows that "hope and change" working out for you?
Tom Ford
a direct quote from the almighty Ms. Palin as she addressed the Tea Party convention. Nice. I have an answer: so far it's working out better in one year than the 8 years of sheer hell Bush offered. At least this president is trying something besides war and golf. Palin is the world's biggest hypocrite. There are lots of other respectable republicans to quote, aren't there?
7;10 PM Blogger: Well why burden the good people here with that sort of foolishness? I you would like to further discuss this PLEASE send me an email!
Tom Ford
tford60@earthlink.net
Just curious why all the other "to the right" statements against the current administration seem to be fine, but the mention "to the left" is branded "foolishness".
Hope and Change are working out just fine.
Now, who interjected party politics and insects into an otherwise interesting give and take?
The left is branded as foolishness because it is foolish.
It never works, history proves that over and over again.
If a blogger wrote that the right was foolishness, what would you respond, sir? Maybe this blog cannot stay on topic. This underlying fervor does not lend to city progress. I have learned some good facts from the more serious commenters. The political foolishness about lefties, etc. etc. show me nothing but insincerity.
OK, from now on you can email me if you want my opinion on the National political scene !
Future posts discussing the left or the right will be deleted as soon as I see it.(Unless it's Crestwood related.)
Simple fix, no? on to the City problems and what to do about them posts!
Tom Ford
I wrote a rebuttal letter to the "Times" to be published this past week, but nothing (third time!)
I believe these so called "editors" are really a bunch of "touchie, feelie liberals who cower in the face of fiscal responsibility, and common sense!
The next time you see the "RED" paper on your lawn,consider the source and just toss it in the can where it belongs!
Tom Ford
That's what you use to say about the Call and now you seem to be in bed with them. What flavor was the Kool-Aid they served you?
I read and enjoy the CALL and the TIMES. I appreciate the fact that each of them represents individual independent values, which I don't necessarily have to agree with, but which enable me to form opinions of my own. Touchy-Feely Liberals or Touchy Neo-Cons - "we are all children of the universe, we belong here."
8:30 PM Blogger: Both the Call and I seem to have changed! You can still do this as I really don't believe the Government has banned that yet, or have they?
9:35 PM Blogger: Go ahead, read it and please enjoy it (I can't.) As for me, well my puppy is long gone, and the bird is dead, so we don't need a "Corner paper,or a bird cage liner."
I have noticed the "Times" will print anything that has a liberal (spend my money) slant to it, but no rebuttals allowed (unless they agree with it.) If I wanted that, I would order the Post Dispatch!
Tom Ford
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