Highlights of the BOA Meeting last night !
Interesting night on many fronts folks. The usual four (Foote, Pickel, Beasley, and Duncan) voted in lock step with King Roy as usual, but why when other Alderman asked for the City Attorney to provide guidelines to the Board on Civil Service rules did they vote it down ? I thought that's what Rob Golterman (of Lewis rice and Fingerish) got the big bucks for, to keep them out of trouble.
It seems that a certain group wants the Civil Service rules changed to read it's OK for employees to engage in political campaigns (The Charter forbids it now) and the apparent idea is to pull a fast one with the Charter, or at least it looks that way.
Please tell us that this is not so as the Charter should be held inviolate as should the Constitution of the United States ! We already have enough trouble keeping the current regime's hands off the Constitution, so please don't tell me we have to watch you too !
Memo to Jim Eckrich : the recent past you have asked Chris Pickel to meet with you ( two times) privately after the meeting. In case you forgot the Board President is Darrel Walleck, so wouldn't it make more sense to meet with him ?
Tom Ford
NO. 768
posted by Crestwood Independent at 15:59
103 Comments:
Tom,
I am not clear about what you say was voted down and by who in last nights meeting.
Could you explain in detail what the vote what was about?
thanks
Tim
Trueblood
I'm on the same page as Tim. Can city workers campaign in local elections or is this issue held up?
Tim, they voted down the motion by Alderman Duchild to have "Guidelines" prepared by Rob Golterman on the Charter language V the Civil Service rules.
Twice during the debate "His Honor" was heard to say "I don't care about Civil service rules ! ( I have the audio, and will post it here soon.)It seems "His Honor" wants to change the rules as well as the Charter to allow employees to work on his re-election.
The change vote will no doubt be at the next BOA meeting so get on their case now !
Tom Ford
"To work on his reelection".......oh, kind of like the firefighters did when they tried getting you elected a few years back? I would see you visiting them all the time back then asking for their backing. It was no secret.
3:26 PM Blogger: Of course it was no secret, the name was on all my literature and signs (as required by law.) In my case there was no "Quid Pro Quo," I have no idea about now.
Tom Ford
For the first two posters:
There were two motions regarding the proposed political activity modifications that were voted down:
First, it was made clear that the proposed Civil Service language (which duplicates the Charter language regarding political activity) could be interpreted broadly or narrowly, and that further definition, in the form of written guidelines, would spell out exactly what the city's employees could do in matters concerning Crestwood elections. The city attorney supported the idea of having guidelines.
After hearing the city attorney's comment, Paul (Alderman Duchild) made a motion to table the vote on instructing the city attorney to draw up the ordinance for the political activity modification to allow for time to establish the guidelines, so that the proposed language change would be considered along with the definitions provided by the guidelines. That motion failed.
The board then voted to instruct the city attorney to draft ordinances for all three proposed modifications, and that vote passed.
After the vote, alderman Wallach made a motion to have the city attorney provide the board with some of the guidelines to which he referred, so that they could consider them at the next meeting.
That vote ended in a tie, and the mayor broke the tie in favor of not having the city attorney provide the referenced guidelines.
As for the second poster, currently, the city workers cannot campaign in local elections. If they live in Crestwood; however, they are allowed to vote. If the proposed change passes, and the board declines to establish any guidlines, the language could be interpreted to allow them to participate or not.
I hope this helps.
Martha Duchild
OMG, this is becoming worse than OBAMA style Chicago politics!
Can or will no one stop this man, our Mayor, from such a blatant power grab?
Where are the folks who stormed city hall upset with the actions of the previous two mayors? Have they all moved to senior citizens homes or out of town? What this mayor is doing is not a error in judgment, but a pure evil take over of the Charter in the FIRST DEGREE.
SICK!
6:43
We haven't left. Patience, dear one, patience.
From a strategic point of view, do we recall the mayor? He's up in April 2011, 9 months from now. Yes, I know 9 months is a long time, but still - what's the best approach?
5:42-
Thanks Martha! It does help, although the picture you paint is quite scary.
If city workers are allowed to campaign, I would imagine that in several years, Crestwood could be the highest taxing city in the area.
Also, IAFF Kurt Becker was at the board meeting. He and his union pushed Prop S and backed the mayor.
If city workers are allowed to campaign, expect the firefighter's union to get heavily involved (more so than they are now). Remember the Mehlville Fire District before the Aaron Hilmer came along? The union ran the show and vigorously fought for any tax increases. They later vehemently fought against any tax decreases.
If you think things are bad now in Crestwood, just wait. Not only will you have a depleted commercial base and bully mayor, but the workers will be knocking on your door wanting more money. How are you going to feel when a cop or fire fighter knocks on your door and asks you to vote for a tax increase? Depending how this legislation is written, it could happen.
9:49
Well said.
You have expressed my exact fear with this issue.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/article_48b0f320-8019-11df-9b5d-0017a4a78c22.html
9:49pm
You are right.... It is completely unreasonable that the police and fire fighters want competitive pay and affordable benefits. Who needs a pay plan! They should gladly except a PAY DECREASE EVERY YEAR! God forbid they bother you by knocking on your door!
Everyone knows that the Crestwood Citizens are above paying a tax rate that is comparable with surrounding cities.
Lets see, they also backed Darryl Wallach, Tom Ford, prop1, the fire sales tax that is helping keep this city afloat, and any other measure that helps this city in any way possible. Don Greer (rip) had a meeting with the firemen as well as other employees encouraging them to help with prop 1 any way they could. They have done everything the different administrations have asked of them.
Yes, you are right. They backed every tax INCREASE and even paid for candidate's signs.
So let's ramp it up a little bit. Let's have a police officer knock on a door and tell that citizen he should vote for a tax increase and put up a sign in favor of it. Citizen says no. Awkward, eh? Citizen gets pulled over the next day. Now tell me oh wise one, what is that citizen going to think?
This is a terrible idea and whoever is promoting this should be ashamed. It puts employees and residents on the spot.
But I digress, this city does not exist for the residents. It exists for the employees. And if this passes, the city will become not only a playground for employees - it will become an amusement park.
Everyone knows that the Crestwood Citizens are above paying a tax rate that is comparable with surrounding cities.
WRONG!
We pay higher sales taxes than most other municipalities. Our utility taxes (check the pie chart on the city's website - it's a substantial chunk of the budget) are as high as the rest.
The one bargain - real estate and property taxes - are being threatened with zeal by aldermen who think they represent the employees and not the people.
It is completely unreasonable that the police and fire fighters want competitive pay and affordable benefits.
Have you seen some of the pay figures up at city hall? Seriously? And you are telling me those aren't competitive?
Have you seen some of the pay figures up at city hall? Seriously? And you are telling me those aren't competitive?
Let's see - police are driving around in 3 year old cars! Yikes! Heaven forbid!!! Time for 200 new ones.
The firefighter union got a memorandum of understanding passed in 06.
Cost of living payraises.
But you are right, we treat our employees horribly.
Ever notice how many people who used to represent a ward in this town (Vincent-Sunset Hills, Golterman-Sunset Hills?, McGowan-West County) have left Crestwood?
I can see no benefit to the city to have employees become political pawns. If they can get involved with politics, they can then work hard, physically and financilly, to keep in office those who easily are controlled and who lean away from the resident taxpayer in lieu of campaign contributions with a catch. This would easily contribute to another fifedom. I though we learned our lesson on this. Besides since when are municipal employees supposed to get involved with politics and municipal governing? Just what we need is another layer of city management with an agenda which does not nedessarily benefit residents, but rather choses to berate if they do not get to lean on the candidates they support for what they dictate they need.
Quit messing with the Charter and the Civil Service Code, it smells like politics again. Just what we don't need. The only onput our Board needs is that of taxpayers. So put your acts together and feed your opinions to our officials and enlarge your expectations.
As for the group of active residents who put a sizeable dent in some very political actions. Well they are all here, none in an old folks home and are benefitting from their actions. Your snarky remarks about them was typical for someone still stinging from their contributions to their city.
The reason the sales tax is so high is because the citizens have been living off the mall for the last 30 years..the mall is dead! It is time for a better plan!
4:08 PM Blogger: "The better plan" in a nutshell.
1. Cut the animal adoption club
2. privatize the pool.
3. Give Sappington House to County.
4. STOP SPENDING FOR THE UN-NEEDED
5. Stop raises for Department heads.
6. Cancel the bridge to no-where.
7. Act like we know how to run a City for a change and forget about "canopy fires" and Feral cats, in other words, GROW UP AND DO YOUR JOB MR. MAYOR AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR GANG ON THE BOA !
Tom Ford
to the 11:51 poster, do you really have such a low opinion of our police force that you feel they would pull someone over just because they said no to a yard sign??
Yes. Have you dealt with our police force lately?
If there is skepticism about police deportment here, then the Chief and the CA.Eckerich had best get their heads together and work very hard on dispelling rumors we have any problems whatsoever includiing disrespect, poor judgement, insubordination and being a Smart A.
As for one alderman being asked to meet with the CA, any effort to leave out the board in general or having secret meetings makes for a very suspicious situation. Frankly this city has had enough of CA's confusing their position as beyond scrutiny. His handsome salary is paid by me and my neighbors and our expectations are high.
There are 900,000 Americans on unemployment thanks to Nafta, Gat and some corporate shennagins and crooked financiers and a nation in distress, distress just as we have in good old Crestwood. Employeed people whose main joy in life is moaning and groaning make me tired.
alright I've read enough. Their are a considerable number of city employees that also live in crestwood. Therefore, if they are of the clock, on their own time they can go door to door, campaign, or anything else that is protected by the constitution. I hope this is taken in consideration before anything is voted on. Those that do not live in crestwood still take just as much pride in our community as we do. Some more being that this is their livelihood and have been with the city longer than a good percentage has lived here. But, since some may have to pay as high as $800.00 a month for family insurance you think that $1000.00 they got 2 years ago should cover everything. We all have to work and live together so instead of harping on the past lets move forward in a positive manor and make things better for everyone. residents and employees alike. They will be there for us if we are there for them. I know they'll be there no matter what but we must remember not to take advantage of that fact. And Tom isn't number 4 a little redundant if you consider the rest "un-need". Animal control was voted on by our aldermen, but you want our "bully" mayor to eliminate it. Oh, I get it, as long as it is what you want then it's not bullying its a "better plan". You can't give someone something they don't want(county/sap house). Hey Tom I have a cell phone that I want you to have. You can't use it and it will cost you a $100.00 a month, sound good. I can keep going if you like, but usually if my post is to long you only pick one topic to address that you think you can debate with.
I've heard there are some Master debaters only this blog
Employeed people whose main joy in life is moaning and groaning make me tired.
10:24 PM, June 25, 2010
Amen!!!
Here's a little something to chew on for our residents on "fixed incomes" vs. employees.
1.) Everyone collecting Social Security receives annual increases for cost of living.
2.) Employees received an "across the board" $1000 (yearly pay increase a couple years ago. Prior to that, the only "raises" seen were in 2004. After the $1000 increase, we have seen nothing.
3.) Each and every year, we have faced increases in healthcare. I'm not talking about twenty bucks a month. I'm talking about MAJOR increases- YEARLY. Do NOT mistake Mr. Eckrich's salary with that of a public works employee, or a road cop. Us pee-ons are the ones taking this right up the kiester. Little to no increases in pay for almost 7 years, paired with HUGE increases in our "benefits"....AND WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOICE OUR COMPLAINTS?
The employees do not want to "take over" the city. We do not want political power. And, in all honesty, we cannot wait for Roy to leave office- JUST LIKE MOST OF YOU!
YOu must understand, however, that we look at the tax rates of the surrounding cities, and talk with their employees. We see the differences. Yes, we could all leave and find a different place to work, but the reality is we are comitted to Crestwood. Isn't that what you folks want...comitted employees?
As for the poster who implied the police would give him or her tickets if they "said no" well, they are being ridiculous. If anything, our police GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to hand out warnings instead of tickets to the residents.
Another thing to consider here:
Crestwood was formed to provide FIRE and POLICE services to the community. This, in essence, means the city exists to EMPLOY people to provide services. The city is not an autonimous entity. It takes employees to run the city. One could argue that without employees, there literally is no city. And if that is what you'd like- go for it. Absolve the charter and fold yourselves into unincorporated St. Louis County. Your taxes will go through the roof, and your fire services will be taken over, likely by Mehlville.
Please stop saying the employees are moaning too much. We have families, mortgages, children and unbelievably high healthcare. We, too, are human beings. Please treat us as such.
Please forgive me for this rant, but some of the posts I see here are ridiculous, and many of the comments are unfounded. Especially those regarding what many residents "think" the employees are "up to." We merely want a decent wage for our work. And to be quite honest- I would bet most, if not all the employees would pass over a raise in exchange for the city picking up more of the healthcare.
I don't know about you, but after year after year of losing money. That's right- LOSING money from my paycheck, I am wanting better. Better for myself, my spouse, and our children. Just like you would, if you were in this horrible situation.
By the way (and to put it into perspective) city healthcare costs have SKYROCKETED in a few short years. A family plan in 2005-2006 was less than $300 per month. Now, that same plan is over $800 a month!!!! That, by the way, is before adding dental and the like to the plan. The REAL figure gets very close to $900 per month!
Would you not feel slightly jilted if your paycheck was reduced by $600 per month? Mine has, and yes, I am sorry but I feel jilted. I don't feel jilted by the residents, and I am not here saying it is your fault. But I do not feel as though the residents fully understand what the employees are forced to live with/on each month.
Another little factoid to chew on, and one many people here do not want to accept- we have city employees on foodstamps. Yep- FOODSTAMPS. And again, we have no reason to complain, right? Afterall, we ARE lucky to have a job, right?
Foodstamps....good grief.
TO: Crestwood City Employees who post on this blog about how poorly they are being paid/treated.
1. Go online and find using Google where in the USA local Govt. employees make the kind of money you feel is your due.
2. Get a current Yellow Pages Phone book.
3. Look up U Haul rental equipment.
4. Rent moving equipment.
5. Move to location found in results of number 1.
Crestwood was not founded to employee you at the income
level you feel is fair.
No one has had a gun at your head forcing you to stay employed by the City of Crestwood. Quit and move if you don't like it here.
I asure you the majority of us don't feel the same as 12:43pm June 26th. Clearly you are not an employee so what keeps you from posting your name other than that you don't want anyone to know how stupid you are. Lets insult the people who take care of our city, keep us safe, provide us with protection. I am sure your one of the first people to call on city employees and then complain about them. I think we would be better off if you took your own advice, and hit the road. I'm pretty sure our police and fire would be missed a lot more than you.
Good Lord! Don't like it here? Leave. No one is forcing you to stay. All of us have hard times in this economy and my insurance has gone up too.
Maybe with St. Louis County Police, we won't get so much complaining. Maybe if we replace the mayor and some of the aldermen, the fire union won't have such a stranglehold on the city.
And don't give me this crap that city workers just love this city and are so devoted. I've personally heard public works workers say I put my time in and collect a check. The police have become rude. Firefighters and paramedics aren't always friendly either.
Lets insult the people who take care of our city, keep us safe, provide us with protection.
I never do, especially when I see officers inside the gas station mart on Watson all the time. That chair gets mighty hard and those sodas get cold.
"Crestwood was not founded to employ you at the income level you feel is fair."
How right you are blogger! Now hopefully that notion could sink in to the mayor, the board, Foote, and the fire union. But I don't have my hopes up.
To think the fire union has any clout in this town is a joke. They have very little. They supported Roy but didn't really need to. That's the extent of it. The blogger that says that sounds an awful lotlike a former aldermen.
Wrong you are ... on both counts.
Robinson won the election but only won Ward 3-his own ward he used to represent. Check the election results - April 2005. Don't forget, he lost the August 04 special election to Fagan.
That is fine 2:06pm get St.louis county police and pay twice as much as we are now in taxes. Twice as much for half the service, I'm glad I don't work for you. And yes, everyone has had increases in insurance cost but I don't see you posting the difference in what you pay from a few years ago. Oh yeah, because it's not nearly as much. Those employees that might have said that probably are tired of having citizens turn their back on them like your comments. Lets not try and make things better or work together. When did this country change from valuing hard workers and appreciate what they do to the mentality of you should just be glad you have a job. The sad thing is that their are those employees have more invested in our city than we do. This is how they support their families. Many over a decade long which means they are vested in our community. We live here but so do they. Yeah and they don't vote for our elected officials, we do. So if you are in the minority and didn't get who you wanted elected don't take it out on the employees
Fenton pays for St. Louis County Police coverage. They say it is still cheaper than having their own force. Wildwood has them so does unincorporated county.
My insurance has gone up several hundred dollars per month. I can't go to the voters try to get a tax increase so my pay can go up. I haven't got a cola raise either in several years.
But I forget, Crestwood was founded for its employees.
"Everyone collecting Social Security receives annual increases for cost of living."
And you base this on???
Mine did not go up, and it is not scheduled to go up next year.
Neither did my government retirement.
But my medical insurance did.
I had to drop some of the coverage.
All added up, I probably get less than the lowest paid city employee.
I don't get all the hatred for people over a certain age (60?). All the comments about nosy, old, citizens asking questions, and bothering the employees....do you not plan to live past 60? ...going to shoot yourself on your birthday?
I DO see more old people than young ones at the polls on election day. Why is that?
2:13 so what if a former alderman posts on this blog? What the heck is wrong with that? Does the Bill of Rights not apply to former Aldermen in Crestwood?
Poster 12:43 is 100% correct, this city or for that fact any school district,or fire dist or any level of government was not formed
to employee people at the level of income they think is fair.
2:13 so what if a former alderman posts on this blog? What the heck is wrong with that? Does the Bill of Rights not apply to former Aldermen in Crestwood?
Poster 12:43 is 100% correct, this city or for that fact any school district,or fire dist or any level of government was not formed
to employee people at the level of income they think is fair.
So.....are municipal employees not justified, then, in asking for a fair wage?
It seems there are quite a few people here who look down on municipal employees. This saddens me. Are municipal employees on a lower social strata than you? Do they not deserve to prosper? Many jobs in this country are goal based, meaning- the harder you work, the more money you make. Municipal employees do not have this option. They are subject to the whim of a town council, or to that of the voting public.
Nobody, John, is picking on the older members of the community. I don't think anywhere in this current post, is there someone taking pop shots at the elderly. But, if you happen to be in that category, please think of this- when you were younger, didn't most policemen/firemen make enough to support their families? It is not that way anymore. Back in "the day" any person off the street could sign up and become a cop or firefighter without a degree. Currently, the majority of departments require a four year degree to join the ranks.
Isn't it fair to say that a college graduate with a bachelor's degree SHOULD be able to support a family based on their hard work? I think so. But, apparently, there is a feeling that cops and firefighters are just a dime a dozen, and can just be replaced by any old person walking the street. This, too, is just not the case these days.
Another thing to ponder if we are to compare a retired person to a lowly municipal employee is this: Many retirees have a hom ethat is paid off. They also have grown children they are not putting braces on, sending to college, sending to daycare, etc. Us lowly municipal employees (that can be so easily replaced) have all of those things to contend with. And we are having to contend with those things in this current society....in a job we have no control over in terms of performance for pay.
And to the earlier poster, who was apparently afraid of employees knocking on their doors, asking for more money: that offends you, eh? Funny...police and fire are here to serve you 24 hours a day, seven days a week including holidays and weekends. Ever miss you child's birthday for multiple years in a row, because you had to work? Ever miss Christmas, your wedding anniversary, or a funeral of a loved one because you had to work? Yet, by merely picking up the phone and dialing three digits, police and fire will rush to your home, save your life, help you out- and do it all usually without even a thank you.
Please forgive me, if someday I knock on your door asking YOU for help. I promise I won't do it on a holiday, or during your dinner. If it is your kid's birthday, I promise to respectfully excuse myself from your presence, and allow you to go on with your day. And I WILL thank you for your time.
No one has said city employees can not ask for a raise. What is being said is we the voters can say no.
If that answer doesn't satisfy your cost of living concerns, then move to another city that will pay you what you think you are worth.
This is why the rule against allowing city employees to campaign in local elections must not be changed. If a someone running for election either in public or behind closed doors promises to increase wages of city employees, odds are the employees will become a part of that campaign.
Or look at this way. The guy running in the above example losses to the guy who said he wouldn't raise wages. The newly elected official makes payroll cuts, lay offs. A court case is filled because the person layed off claims it was because they supported the guy who lost.
Talk about wasting money on lawyers!
Ever miss you child's birthday for multiple years in a row, because you had to work? Ever miss Christmas, your wedding anniversary, or a funeral of a loved one because you had to work?
Yep, sure did. I'm not a policeman or fireman either. I was on call 24/7. I didn't have a union to back me up and I couldn't go to the taxpayers and ask for more money. Never got a thank you either. Never rode around in a new police car - wasn't provided a company car. Didn't have a union to put forward a memo of understanding for me. I had to treat the people I worked for with respect. Had to pay my taxes - real, personal, income, sales. I deal with increases to my insurance too.
Ever miss your family for 6 to 9 months every other year? And for low pay too. (In the Military!)
When job requires travel, one misses lots of things at home. Lots. But, when we choose our job, we choose its description.
If your job and its parameters do not meet your expectations and you are miserable, then all those jobs out there who are so much more desirable are waiting for you.
This business that the city does not appreciate its employees, hooey! All the niceties this employee is so warm too would put us out of business, making the job description extinct.
It takes a lot of reality testing to accept that in the more resilient and richer days, police and firemen had the most secure job on earth. But getting blood out of a turnip is no longer possible.
"Nobody, John, is picking on the older members of the community."
You are, in this very post. Read it over again and you will see. I don't know about any other ones as most people don't use their name.
My house is not paid off.
I have a teenager still at home.
I have an 11 year old car.
We have not taken a vacation in many years.
I have all the same taxes, and expenses you do if you live in Crestwood, but get way less money with no hope for a raise.
On another subject you mentioned...I assume you are with the Police or Fire department. And you feel unappreciated.
Well that does NOT apply to me!
Over the last fifteen or so years I have lived here, I have had to call for the Police, and Fire (medical) departments several times. The response was always fast, expert, and friendly, and professional. I always tried to thank the responders, but at least once, I was out of it and probably didn't.
So, I would like to THANK YOU personally, and all the other Police, and Fire people, even if you have not been to my house!
I am glad there is someone there 24/7/365.
I was opposed to the recent cuts in the Fire, and Police staffs, and if you look back at old posts on the blog here, you will see that I have always had good things to say about Police, and Fire. You can tell, because I always post as John.
As a blogger that is on here frequently, I can attest that John and Tom are very supportive of our police and fire. In my mind, we all are. Just because we may not agree with a policy change or tax increase does not make us any less supportive of our first responders.
11:17 AM Poster: Food stamps ? Well if that's true (and I doubt it,) these idiot raises, assistants to the C / A and reckless expenditures for bridges and dog catchers must be stopped now !
When you see waste, and abuse of the taxpayers money in Crestwood you need to put it on this Blog ! I will take it from there thus saving your anonymity, and you job for you.
If we hound the so called officials things will change, but not before so you tell us, what can we get rid of from an employee standpoint ?
Tom Ford
"Many jobs in this country are goal based, meaning the harder you work, the more money you make. Municipal employees do not have this option."
As a matter of fact, you DO have this option. It is your administration who has chosen (through lack of a pay plan thus far) not to offer it.
I can assure you that as a former member Crestwood's civil service board, I (and the other members) was surprised that this goal-oriented system was not being used. It was our intention to work with the administration to revise the pay plan, starting with a complete set of accurate job descriptions. Having these updated job descriptions would have served two puposes: establishing a "base" from which salaries could be determined (thereby making it easier to attach progress to goals and reward them accordingly) and allowing for the cross-training of employees.
Obviously, as with any goal-oriented pay plan, your reward is taken from a limited pool of money.
In my own experience, some years that pool allowed for raises over 5%, other years the pool was so small that the best performance was awareded with a 1-2% raise. That is the nature of doing business.
You are under a system that rewards everyone equally regardless of effort. That system can be changed. I understand that a pay plan is currently under development, but I'm not sure if it is a goal-oriented structure.
Please understand that the residents are not responsible for determining how your pay plan is structured, and that all of them do appreciate your efforts on their behalf. If you want to make a difference in how your plan is structured, you will need to express your opinions to whoever is responsible for the pay plan.
No plan can guarantee big raises. The only way to make an impact on how much is going to be in the "pool" is to manage city funds responsibly, and that is the job shared by the administration and the board of aldermen.
Martha Duchild
Crestwood, I thought, was formed to provide community services to its residents. We residents have had a lot of issues to contend with - petition drives, frequent tax increases (or attempts), and an embarrassing mayor.
As a resident and homeowner, I'm tired...and a little resentful. I'm tired of being told what a great deal I have. I'm tired of the implications that I am not good to the Crestwood employee.
We have police officers like any other community. In my lifetime, I have been served by two local municipal departments, plus St. Louis City and St. Louis County. All were fine departments. I could not tell much of a difference between the departments. If the training is good and the police officer is committed to his/her job, it shows.
Same with the fire departments.
Same with other services.
So as I pay my taxes and shop in Crestwood as much as I can, I get a little irritated when I hear this constant whining. I get a little irritated when I read some of the outlandish statements this mayor makes. I get a little irritated when some aldermen act as if its their duty to represent the city employee, not the resident. I get a little irritated when we have had sales tax increases, fee increases, property tax increases (Prop S) and the attempted increase a few years ago-and still, it is not enough. I get a little irritated when we spend money on a dog catcher, whose vehicle I've seen at Red Lobster and Sweet Tomatoes.
I get a little irritated when we spend money on a bridge and one alderman is yelling about canopy fires - we have yet to have one.
Well guess what? Those little irritations gather up to anger. So much so that I wonder what Crestwood could do different. Could we outsource some services and save money? Can we eliminate some layers of bureaucracy? I know many long-time residents that share my feelings. I know of quite a few long-time residents who regard our police as ill-mannered and ill-tempered. I know quite a few long-time residents who are a bit bothered about the fire union's influence in Crestwood.
So, dear city of Crestwood, if you wish to push your residents more, by all means, that is your prerogative. But we might push back, because a heck of a lot of us are damn sick and tired of all this crap.
12:51 PM Blogger: Now thats the way to 'tell it like is is" my friend, Bravo and then some !
Glad to have you aboard, welcome to the fight to make these spend thrift buffoons (they know who they are) act like they have a clue what to do !
Were paying two employees $5,000.00 extra for "Degrees" they have yet to get ! Were providing free heat, light, A/C and rent to an employee plus $100.00 per month to live in the Sappington House, and we have given Jim Eckrich TWO assistants plus a heck of a salary.
To darn many chiefs and no Indians if you ask me. The four "horseman of the ridiculous," Foote, Pickel, Beasley, and Duncan continue to vote with "His Honor" no matter how imbecilic the cause, and meanwhile we run out of money !
What to do ? Well for one thing vote them out (too long to wait.) or "put them on front street" until they are so embarrassed they quit, or call Elliott Davis and Phil Sutton for more coverage of their irresponsible spending during a recession (soon to be a depression !)
It only goes to show that the Abe Lincoln comment "You can fool some of the people some of the time......" is still in effect !
For now refuse every spending bill they put out, NO TAX INCREASE NO MATTER WHAT ! And join S.P.O.N.G.E. ( The society for the prevention on the nitwit's getting everything !)
Tom Ford
I get irritated as well...every time someone tells me what I should want and need in my own community. Every time someone, particularly on here, states as fact what this, or any city, should have or not have, and what priorities there should be. A community is made up of more than a few people, all with valid, differing thoughts and priorities. Just because the stated needs and priorities are presented on this blog doesn't make them so, and it doesn't make them right. There are many opinions out there, and this iron-fisted "THIS IS WHT MUST BE DONE" line doesn't fly with me and an awful lot of other residents. I don't need others to set my priorities for me, thanks.
A few things to consider. Alderman Beasley defeated incumbent Alderman Neider. So, ward 4 apparently wanted to move in a different direction. And if you make your discussions on who our mayor is, then why was his name the only one on the ballot last election. I also think that the employees communicate with other municipalities and also research our property tax. I realize our sales tax is high, however there aren't many places to shop in crestwood anymore. If you also compare our property tax rate with other cities we are considerable lower. I would think that the few cuts suggested wouldn't be enough to keep our police and fire at the reduced levels that they are already at. I also feel it is easier on 10,000 residents to pay a dollar than ask a 100 employees to pay a 100 dollars. Every department has had employees/positions eliminated and increased duties/responsibilities. We at some point need to realize that our sales tax bases has slowed considerably and if we don't increase our contribution we may lose some very important services to our community.
"I also feel it is easier on 10,000 residents to pay a dollar than ask a 100 employees to pay a 100 dollars."
I don't know about you, but I am already paying WAY more than a dollar! You do know that we pay back all the utilities taxes they pay the city right? (On our bills.)
That is in addition to all the other various taxes, and fees.
If one dollar, one time would make EVERYBODY HAPPY I would go for it, but it would not
"Every department has had employees/positions eliminated and increased duties/responsibilities"
That is not true. Some have, but a number of employees have been added, mostly in admin positions.
HERE IS A RADICAL IDEA
Get the City to post an organization chart with ALL the city employee POSITIONS ( no names ) including the aldermen, mayor, and city attorney positions, with the current budgeted salary for that position.
I think that there are many positions that we (citizens) don't know we have, and some we think we have, and don't.
I'll bet we will be surprised, and maybe shocked by some of the highs, and lows.
All this info is probably available in the budget, but not being a CPA, I (and most citizens) can't figure it out.
A few things to consider. Alderman Beasley defeated incumbent Alderman Neider. So, ward 4 apparently wanted to move in a different direction.
Maybe, but it was a small victory-Beezley didn't win by much. She still won, granted.
And if you make your discussions on who our mayor is, then why was his name the only one on the ballot last election.
I know of a good reason. No one really wants that job. It's a time commitment. You are responsible for a city that is having a really tough time. The city and what happens in it is on your watch. I thought Bland or someone else would run, but honestly, who wants that job? A look at our history, and we really have not had that many mayors. I can remember Koening, Killoren, (Labore and Breeding temporarily) Brasfield, Robertson, Fagan, and Robinson. And that is over a 40 year span.
As far as "this iron-fisted "THIS IS WHAT MUST BE DONE" line" tell THAT to our mayor. See what response you get.
My point exactly. The iron fisted mentality is very prevalent here in Crestwood...everybody knows what's best for everyone else. Everyone has the "best" way and knows just how things should be done, other people be darned.
Interesting that the mayor has these same qualities. What is it they say? We hate most in others what we also dislike in ourselves? Perhaps Roy is mayor because people who are just like him voted for him. And no...everyone on this blog is not exempt, given how much those on here "protest too much".
John, I don't even know how to respond. I was using nice round numbers to make it easy to understand. Lets say the 10,000 residents pay $1,000.00 which means a hundred employees would have to pay $100,000.00 dollars. Us what ever number you like. The point is the burden is not as great on the masses as it is on few. Also, no department has added employees. Including administration. Get your facts straight before you post.
Geez John! Just because you're a resident and sign your name and have conducted yourself very respectfully on this blog ... you think you can post your opinion? Geez!
Don't you know that the 11,000 + residents of Crestwood should pay as much as they can for the staff? After all, Crestwood exists for its employees.
And watch out for those forest fires and feral cats!
Hey I'm still looking forward to those Whitecliff plays. I see where they are going to have A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, God's Favorite, and Chorus Line. I've heard they were going to make some slight changes to the original productions though. One, the first play is going to be called A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Civil Service Board Meeting - the play is going to be all about those brilliant decisions that board makes. God's Favorite is going to be changed to Roy's Favorite-no explanation needed there, and Chorus Line will not be changed with the exception that Beezley will be singing "One" and Foote will sing a song about forest fires and feral cats.
The play that should be written for Crestwood is "Bellyache and Whine but do nothing to improve the situation". It would be a smash hit...true to life and appealing to each person who thinks they know what everyone should do.
How right you are! Some of our Crestwood employees need to stop their Bellyache and Whine!
Maybe the city employees are just trying to fit in with the residents on this blog.
Really? I would think they would not have the time to post on this blog since they are all working so very hard.
many people do alot ore than "provide a blog" to help their community.
Really? Are you referring to most of our employees who live outside of the city? And don't give me this nonsense that they can't afford to live here. After all, we are such a bargain, aren't we???
no, I was referring to the citizens of Crestwood. The employees are just that: employees. I work in a different city than here, and I don't spend any time in that community when I'm not at work.
1:35 PM Blogger:
"many people do alot ore than "provide a blog" to help their community."
What's an "ORE ?" Can it be used to row a boat, is it "Iron fisted ORE," or is it just a slip of the gliding fingers ?
Now assuming you meant more, just what do they do (other than the animal adoption club ?) Are they "friends of Roy," or do they paint the fence, or do they have on little cheer leader outfits for Crestwood ?
And if all I do is "provide a blog" why do you bother to spend your time posting here , after all aren't you above all this ? You certainly try to convey that impression in your posts.
Tom Ford
"ore" was clearly a typo. Surely you of all people don't want to get into a spelling and/or grammar war. No one comes after you for your spelling typos, so play fair. Or does that rule apply only to others?
There are many volunteer opportunities in and out of crestwood. Look around and maybe you'll see a few.
"no department has added employees. Including administration. Get your facts straight before you post."
Not very long ago, I met a nice young lady at a BOA meeting who said she was new, and was the City Administrator's Assistant. Unfortunately, I don't remember her name.
Perhaps you can clear up my confusion?
"John, I don't even know how to respond. I was using nice round numbers to make it easy to understand. .......... Us what ever number you like. The point is the burden is not as great on the masses as it is on few."
Well, I don't understand yet. I agree that X dollars spread over more people is less per person, but what is your point?
Are you saying that after the BOA, City Administrator, your supervisors, and managers, and the employee committee, and any unions agreed on the compensation package, you still think the citizens should kick in an additional one dollar, or a thousand dollars?
The citizens can't meddle in empoyee matters...we can't even find out how much any particular position pays, let alone how much a person is paid, and that is how it should be.
So we don't know if employees are under paid, or over paid. If you ask anyone (including me) if they are under paid of course they will say yes.
Let's jump back to the issue of employee's and campaigning. That civil service rule was written to protect the employee. How could one work as an employee of a city when the mayor demands you campaign for him? OK, you refuse, now try working in that environment. CSR are there for a purpose and should not be changed.
Actually, John, Crestwood employee salaries are public information. What is available to the public is the job title and the salary it pays.
Everyone is having to make sacrifices, so it is pointless to compare who is suffering more, residents or employees. Having said that, I agree with the previous poster that this thread is about the proposed changes to the civil service rules. The poster correctly pointed out that one of the reasons we (the previous civil service board)retained the political activity language was to protect employees from unwanted solicitations/requests from their supervisors. If you want more information on the problems that can arise if certain restrictions are not in place, you can read about the political activity issues in Florissant.
Martha Duchild
Let's jump back to the issue of employee's and campaigning. That civil service rule was written to protect the employee. How could one work as an employee of a city when the mayor demands you campaign for him? OK, you refuse, now try working in that environment. CSR are there for a purpose and should not be changed.
8:36 AM, June 30, 2010
Excellent. The rules are there to protect the employee too!
Lowery is the perfect example of how not to run a city. Roy probably idolizes the old dog.
9:42 PM Blogger: I do believe you need to relax a bit and look for the attempted humor in my post.
By the way, I am blind in the right eye, and I really can't see that well out of the left eye, that's my excuse, what's yours ?
Tom Ford
old key board with sticky letters.
5:46 PM Blogger: I understand completely my friend ! I am just an old goat with "fat fingers!"
Tom Ford
Ms. Duchild,
"What is available to the public is the job title and the salary it pays."
Thank you for that information!
Could you please tell me where I can find that?
An organization chart for the departments would be nice too.
I looked all over the old, and new web site, and found nothing like that. The only thing I found was in the budget where it has the total salary for a department.
John
I agree on the employees not campaigning for people or issues.
The employees have grievance procedures, or can talk to their supervisor.
Citizens can write, or talk to their elected representatives (BOA). They can also speak their piece at the board meetings, or any committee meetings if applicable.
John,
You may have to request it from city hall but they should be available.
John,
You can request the city organization chart and the positions/salaries by filling out a FOIA form at city hall.
Martha Duchild
Thank you Martha, and Anonymous!
I will do that soon.
So are the police and firefighters going to work for Roy's re-election campaign? Will they be wearing their uniform and will they be on or off duty? Will they be asked to contribute anything to the campaign?
With no guidelines, it seems as if anything is possible?
The real question that should be asked regarding the political campaigning is:
Does the Charter or the Civil Service Rules dictate behavior?
If the Crestwood police and firemen would decide to involve themselves in any way to the election of our city officials, it would behove us to turn these departments over to the county el pronto. Residents do not wish to have our city turn into an "establishment." (referendums work in this city-remember)/ The tenor and electorate of this city do not give me the sense that they will tolerate any version of union or employee involvement in our governance now or ever. Civil Service is to protect employees from government. The Charter is to protect residents from politics and employees, graft and corruption. This should not be vague.
As for Civil Service and Charter. After years of inactive civil service, Roy Robinson reignited it and appointed three women to dig it up and straighten it out. which they did. They did an admiral job. So, then, as his leanings rotated, he appointed 3 different women to the civil service Board, who could apparently lean in a new direction. 'NOW HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE CIVIL SERVICE.' Did I hear that wrong?
As for the charter, it is our constitution, which is to be reviewed every 10 years. Is it now up for grabs? We cannot keep revising the charter to customize it to the party in charge. As for Civil Service, if it, too,is a flexible toy, then what chance does this city ever have?
...and you think animal control is a problem.
Imagine the $ the city attorney makes off our city rearranging all these deck chairs to make the majority politicals happy!
1:16 PM July 5th
Actually, Crestwood has multiple documents which address behavior: Charter, Civil Service Rules, City Code, various city policies, and the firefighters' Memorandum of Understanding to name a few.
Theoretically, the provisions of all these documents should be consistent.
Martha Duchild
Theoretically, considering the facts in the previous note,the city is screwed up like Hogan's Goat.
Who (and how) determines which rule is used?
Somewhere on this blog someone mentioned that fact that our police are rude. I am wondering if this is fact. I hope not, but if so, has the chief been made aware of this? Talk is cheap, but rude police we don't need. It is sad when attitude problems begin to surface and become known. There are so many people nowdays who would love to have a job, a salary, benefits and security oa any kind. Rude employees anywhere benefit no one and in a municipality this can work its way into the constituancy and no one wins.
Hogan's goat?
Who was Hogan and what did he do to his goat?
"Hogan's Goat"
Among other things, it is the name of a play. Google it, and read the wikipedia definition.
There are some other, not so nice definitions too.
Don'tcha just love bloggers who are closet nitpickers?
12:01 PM Blogger: I see your point and raise you the fact that some Blogger's are not very steeped in American History !
Hogan's goat has been around for a very long time now, and I am amazed that the blogger doesn't know about it.
I now know how some of the BOA members got elected (The four horseman of the ridiculous that is.)
Tom Ford
Instead of Hogan's Goat, the phrase our generation used was FUBAR, so excuse me for not knowing about Hogan and his goat!
IF FUBAR stands for
FOULED UP BEYOND ALL REPAIR
I would agree. One way to fix the foul up is starve it to death by not providing additional funding.
We, the taxpayers, have as much control over city hall as possible because they cannot borrow and must live within a budget. IF the cash is not available to support the wishes the correct decisions, though delayed, will be enacted.
I would love to see a list of cuts the city supposedly has made. They've eliminated positions, but I don't think they've laid anyone off (correct me if I'm wrong). All I hear is crying and whining from city hall and the employees.
I hear all this talk about "cut to the bone", but I don't see it. Now to those who are terribly shocked by my statement, it's hard to see cuts when I see that:
1. We kept animal control.
2. We have a police car used car lot at city hall.
3. We have a truck lot on Pardee Lane.
4. The new firefighter contract was passed.
I'm thinking we need to de-centralize power at city hall via the use of St. Louis County Police, the election of a new mayor, complete analysis of spending habits-fuel usage-mileage usage, etc. And that's just the start.
Crestwood is a real low-tax city. They never ask us for additional taxes...
1. August 2000-Proposition C-Sales tax/Parks and Storm Water-passed
2. August 2002-Proposition S- Sales tax/Capital Improvements Extension-passed
3. August 2003-Proposition 1 Sales tax/Fire Department- passed
4. April 2005-Proposition 1-General Obligation Bond/Property tax-did NOT pass
5. Nov. 2005-Proposition R Increase Merchant Lic. Fee/Gross Receipts-passed
6. “ *Proposition S Tax increase/Gross Receipts/Comm. Utilities-passed
7. “ *Proposition T Tax increase/Gross Receipts/Res. Utilities-did NOT pass
8. April 2006-Proposition S Property tax increase-passed
9. August 2008-Proposition 1 Property tax increase-did NOT pass
On top of that, we need more police cars.
3 out of 9 didn't pass. Another 3 are sales tax. 2 are Lic/utlities which leaves 1 for personal property. Looks like if our sales tax wasn't where its at we would be able to afford anything. Once Prop S retires we will be back to about 24 cents per every 100. Since you can't get fire protection anywhere in St. Louis county for less than about 56 cents I don't see why you are complaining. We get more bang for our buck than anywhere else and yet we have some that cry about it. Maybe there are some employees that are whining but I think there are several that don't realize how good we have it for what we pay. My mother lives in the city. She never gets her street plowed when it snows. She doesn't have well maintained parks outside her home. Code enforcement, yeah right. And police and fire with in three minutes, well maybe fire, but not police. I thing we are a little spoiled and perhaps have forgotten that the grass isn't always greener on the other side
3 of 9 did not pass. 2 of which were attempts to increase our real estate taxes. I'm sure more attempts are coming.
Sales tax rates in Crestwood are some of the highest in STLCounty.
Utility tax rates are also some of the highest in the county.
It's likely board will go to voters and ask them to make Prop S permanent. Sunseted taxes seem to rise again.
Crestwood response time is excellent. But I can drive across town, follow speed limit, obey traffic signals, and make it from one end to the other in 3-4 minutes. Try it yourself.
I lived in city and in unincorporated county. Got good services at both locations.
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