Oh my goodness ! San Francisco to ban "sales of pet's, " Animal adoption clubs out of business ! (Please click here for the story ).
Could it be that the answer to our on going feral cat problem in Crestwood could be solved by a stroke of "His Honors" pen ? No wait, that would mean that 600 votes would be lost to "His Honor" come election time right Roy ?
Pretty sad that we continue to fund a DUPLICATE SERVICE while "allowing" our valued employees to pay more for their families health care ! But that's "His Honor" for you, me first and to Hades with everyone else !
Tom Ford
NO. 772
posted by Crestwood Independent at 18:24
83 Comments:
seriously, what do you have against animals being adopted? I have read several of these threads, and am truly curious. Would you prefer they all be euthanized? I am puzzled about why you seem to hate the idea of animal adoptions, here or anywhere else. You set any place that doesn't do it as the example we are to follow. Most people are very glad to have stray animals adopted instead of put down and most people are also very upset when national numbers of euthanized animals are printed. Since I know nothing about you I thought I'd ask instead of assuming you simply don't like animals.
Another incident of animal abuse recently in MO, dog fighting. Also, recently, the woman with 21 cats and 3 dogs in her car. Then that breeder near Jeff city with horrible conditions. I don't know how the Humane Society deals with all this horror. All within the last month or two. Of course, I am an animal person and proud of it. And it worries me so much of this is going on. When you look in the eyes of these poor animals you just want to cry.
Our do nothing state government just never gets around to this issue and we never see punishment to fit the crime. Considering Missouri is #1 in meth labs and animal abuse I think these people should be named and the public advised on their punishment and their fines.
I have never understood how anyone could be disinterested in these situations. It's no wonder so many people have pets. They give nothing but love. And it does seem that who love and care about pets have a softer side and an obvious soul.
9:46 PM Blogger: I LOVE animals in fact I have two kennels in my back yard where I used to keep hunting dogs.(Sorry to say that I can no longer walk long enough for a hunting trip.)
What I have against the animal control (adoption club) is the fact that they us taxpayer money better spent elsewhere !
In the 41 years I have lived in Crestwood I have never asked for nor received a cent for the care and feeding of the 9 dogs I have owned over the years.
Crestwood, like everyone else has a problem with declining revenue and I see no reason (other than promised votes for King Roy) to maintain this DUPLICATE SERVICE at a time when we can least afford it.
So you see I am simply pointing out the wasteful spending going on here. I have zero malice toward the group or it's leader but I do abhorrer the foolish waste of my (and your) hard earned tax money in this fashion.
Tom Ford
From another blog.
" A sensible decision by San Francisco lawmakers ??
Banning the sale of pets - see Drudge.
I probably wouldn't agree with the ban if it were somewhere other than
San Francisco, but knowing how narcissistic the inhabitants of SF are,
I have to agree with it. San Francisco is the "Me, Me, Me, capitol of the world,
and pets are bought and dumped within days because they got boring,
plus, feeding and taking care of them is not an easy thing to do when
your veins are full of whatever is their veins are full of.
I consider it a victory for animals.
If they want a pet, they'll have to go buy one from an animal shelter. "
from what I understand, there are many in Crestwood who disagree with you, who feel that an animal shelter is a benefit to the residents. I think I might be one of them.
9:33 Am Blogger: That's a good thing my friend, that is what makes America great the fact that we can disagree and still discuss it.
Would you want it any other way ? I wouldn't.
Tom Ford
I notice you did not answer the question. Would you prefer they all be euthanized? What would you see done with the dozens of animals that come through the animal control shelter every year? I have no actual numbers, but I have asked casual questions and the numbers are large enough that I truly wonder what you would have done with these animals. If euthanizing them is your answer, will you volunteer to do that?
Those who support the payment for our own Animal Control Dept. would have you believe that with out them this would be our plight in Crestwood.
"Baghdad kills 58,000 stray dogs in 3-month span" reported by the AP
We do not have a problem that requires us to pay for the same service twice!
yet still, the question has not been answered. The animals that come to the shelter here in Crestwood would otherwise have a different fate if it were closed down. Do you advocate euthanizing these animals? (And why in the world are you comparing Crestwood to Baghdad??That is ridiculous.) There are, I am told, dozens of animals that come through the shelter every year,many of them stray, so, again, I ask, what would you have done with these animals?
Where would we find documentation about how many animals come through the shelter? If said documentation exists, would the documentation reveal if these animals are adopted?
Where, if any, documentation exists to support the mayor's claims regarding how neighboring communities handle animal control issues?
IF Crestwood eliminated its animal control service and animal control duties would be taken over by St. Louis county, what would be the fate of these animals? It appears that there is an assumption that those animals would be euthanized ... is that true?
Here is what I advocate,
TURN THIS PROBLEM OVER TO ST. LOUIS COUNTY. WE ALREADY PAY FOR THEM, WE DO NOT NEED TWO SERVICES FOR AS SMALL A PROBLEM, IF THERE IS ONE, AS WE HAVE IN CRESTWOOD.
WE CAN NOT AFFORD THIS DUPLICATION OF SERVICES FOR SUCH A SMALL CONCERN TO THE GENERAL WELFARE OF THE POPULATION OF CRESTWOOD. IT IS NOT LIKE FIRE OR POLICE PROTECTION, IT'S FOR FLIPPING LOST PETS, FOR GOSH SAKES.
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
Here is what I advocate,
TURN THIS PROBLEM OVER TO ST. LOUIS COUNTY. WE ALREADY PAY FOR THEM, WE DO NOT NEED TWO SERVICES FOR AS SMALL A PROBLEM, IF THERE IS ONE, AS WE HAVE IN CRESTWOOD.
WE CAN NOT AFFORD THIS DUPLICATION OF SERVICES FOR SUCH A SMALL CONCERN TO THE GENERAL WELFARE OF THE POPULATION OF CRESTWOOD. IT IS NOT LIKE FIRE OR POLICE PROTECTION, IT'S FOR FLIPPING LOST PETS, FOR GOSH SAKES.
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
Yes, everyone can hear you. Rude people are hard to miss. Whether YOU like the service or not, many DO like it and feel it's a valuable service. People's lost pets apparently mean nothing to you, and given your demeanor, that's understandable. There are those, however,such as myself, who would really like a place for a lost dog to be cared for until I could find him. The people that advocate for the shelter and animal control definitely have a point.
9:24 PM July 10
You made a point - there are many people who do like the service. But how many? Is it the majority?
Unless this were put to a vote, there really is no way of knowing.
This is obviously a divisive issue, but as with any other service the city provides, it is a budget item. Without holding a special election to determine the fate of animal control, it is up to the aldermen to decide whether the city should keep the service, and (absent a tax increase) whether it is worth sacrificing some other city service to retain it.
Martha Duchild
LOST PETS!!!
First it was wild, cats, now it is lost pets?
PLEAZZZZZZZZZE, how many lost pets a year does our "crack" Animal Control Officer find and return?
Hundreds, thousands?
As for calling for a vote on this issue, within the City Charter is the provision for calling for an issue to be put on the ballot for the citizens to vote for or against.
Let's settle this once and for all. Why don't those who are for and against the money being spent on this duplicate service agree to work together to put this question to the voters. May the best argument win!
If I may chime in, apparently the board did decide on animal control. We still have it, don't we?
We do.
I called one Friday at 5:15PM. She already left for the day. Guess who they referred me to? St. Louis County.
11:36 PM July 10
Perhaps I was not clear: animal control is a budget item and the budget is reviewed every year, so any decision the BOA makes on this service is up for consideration every year.
You are correct - in a vote on the administration's recommendation to cut animal control, the BOA ultimately decided to keep it.
Martha Duchild
I thought the vote was a tie and the Mayor broke it favor of keeping it.
I like the idea of a question on the ballot, "should the City continue to have it's own Animal Control Dept.?"
While is may not have the force of law, it sure would give those in this debate a clear idea how many voters want to continue to spend twice for this service.
I am confused by something here. I have been told there was a petition that showed over 700 names in favor of animal control. That number is rounding the corner to 10% of the residents. That is pretty significant, it seems, so I wonder why this is not being mentioned.
The petition names where never certified as registered voters or valid citizens of Crestwood.
The list itself was never made public which makes all statements rumor not fact.
10:01, read the city Charter.
All I am asking is either a member of the BOA (plus 4 other civil minded members) or a citizens petition place, on the next regular election in Crestwood, a non binding ballot question asking;
Should the City of Crestwood have it's own animal control department?
Let both sides get their point of view out to the voters, have the election, count the votes and then lets see if we have elected, really represent the majority.
"yet still, the question has not been answered."
I don't know who you expect to answer, but I'll take a shot.
"The animals that come to the shelter here in Crestwood would otherwise have a different fate if it were closed down."
Yes, they would be picked up by County, and taken to their shelter.
"Do you advocate euthanizing these animals?"
Not unless they are a danger to people, or terminally ill.
" ... There are, I am told, dozens of animals that come through the shelter every year,many of them stray, so, again, I ask, what would you have done with these animals?"
All the shelters do about the same things: pick them up, try to find an owner if possible, offer them for adoption, and hold them for a period of time.
After a period of time, hand them off to a larger shelter (St Louis County), or they might wind up at the Humane Society. All of these places try to find homes for the animals, but sadly, some are ultimately euthanised.
The problem some of us have with "our own Crestwood Animal Control" is that in these hard times, we are spending more than $130,000 this year for a duplication of service we pay the county for too. And we have had to cut other important services also.
You say there are "dozens of animals a year"...if that is two dozen, it costs $5,000 per animal. If it is four dozen, it is $2,700 each.
yet, combing through the city's budget, I cnnot find anything that says there is 130,000 budgeted for animal control. where is that figure coming from?
what services have been cut?
10:01 PM Blogger: If that petition was certified, and if it had all Crestwood residents on it the thing would have been plastered all over the BOA chambers !
This is politics played by third rate ward healers pure and simple. Roy wants to be Mayor again, he needs the votes, and as usual he is betting on the come with the animal control group.
Meanwhile we are loosing good people and running up the cost of Health insurance for our employees to give a hobby to a minuscule portion of Crestwood residents.Make sense to you? It doesn't to me.
Please remove the emotion from this issue and look at it as if it were a business (which it is.) As a business this is a loosing proposition at best, so if it were your business would you keep it ? I doubt it very much.
We are on the threshold of a real depression in the Country and to survive it we will have to make ends meet. Since we already have the service in place and have paid for it, we cannot afford to duplicate it or anything else, plain and simple.
Tom Ford
but, again, the question wasn't answered. That's a major theme on this blog. Where in the city budget does it have 130,000 allocated for animal control? I cannot find it and it's a figure that keeps popping up.
the other quesion wasn't answered wither...what services have been cut?
Police, and Fire staff were both cut.
Police, and Fire staff were both cut.
Sorry about the double post.
What is with these demands for answers to your specific questions?
All these things were answered in the past, including where the figures were found...budget, or elsewhere. Of course since then things have changed, including the City web site, and they may not be easily located.
If you really want to know, I believe there are links to old threads at the right side of the main page.
7:12 AM July 13th
The Crestwood Public Works Director performed an analysis of the Animal Control Operations and published the results in a memo dated July 30th of 2009.
The director indicated that if the board chose to retain Crestwood Animal Control, certain issues (along with projected costs) would have to be addressed:
Renovation of the shelter at a projected cost of $25-30K
Purchase of a new vehicle for the animal control officer at a projected cost of $30K
Part-time park ranger to assist with animal control at a projected cost of $21K
This amounts to about $80K, added to the current animal control officer's salary of about $40K, which leaves you with about $120K.
Martha Duchild
When you say police and fire have been cut, do you mean there has been an actual layoff ... or an elimination of a position once it is emptied?
I am new to this, admittedly, but I don't think repairs to the shelter itself should be counted against animal control. My understanding is that the shelter is a tiny portion of the building, and the repairs would have to be done anyway. I assume they would not close animal control and then tear down the building if it is being used by others also? That would make no sense. So even if the shelter closed, the repairs would have to be completed.
I like the idea of a non binding referendum. Put on the election when the primary's are held so it doesn't increase cost to city.
Let both sides present their case to the tax payers of Crestwood. While the results do not have the weight of law, it would put an end to what the citizens want or do not want. If 5 Alderman can't agree to pass this idea as a bill, then I'll help with the petition drive to put it on the ballot. Anyone else with me on this?
Tim
Trueblood
7:02 PM Blogger: Tim I will assist all I can my friend !
Tom Ford
4:48 Pm Blogger: Well even if the repairs are "needed ?" we certainly would not have a new SUV and an inflated salary, would we.
Tom Ford
So, basically you have an annual cost of 40k with a one time purchase of 30k for a vehicle. The material and labor was donated for the repairs on animal control. You can't honestly include a figure for a part time range when every one is crying about eliminating animal control. Or include the 30k for a vehicle as if it would be a continued expense yearly. So, that is how we go from 120k to 70k and after 1 year back to 40k.
Why don't we save the city some money. Reduce the number of Board of Alderman meetings to once a month. Cut their salaries in half. Save on the officers that have to be present, the no-salary staff members that have to attend, electric, water, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we could get near that 40k.
or sell one or two of the police vehicles that just sit on the lot and do nothing?
9:59 - that would be the fiscally prudent thing to do, but when it comes to Crestwood and fiscally prudent, the two don't seem to mix.
9:30 PM Blogger: Were it that simple my friend. You see the "animal control" building is not up to code on ventilation or ADA compliance.
This means to get it up to code one heck of a lot of money will have to be spent ! The new roof is great, but.......
I believe we could lease the building to County for " a dollar a year" and let them fix it up to code standards. I am surprised (not) that our "code enforcement officer) has not made these facts known to the "great un-washed."
Every time that building (the small one with the kennel's) is used we stand a chance of an ADA lawsuit, so how about we transfer it to County (along with Ms. Sutton) sooner rather than later and avoid the risk !
Tom Ford
the city is actually using the building...leasing it to the county is silly.
what in the world would make you think the county would want the building??
8:38-8:40 Blogger's: Wrong the animal adoption club uses the building), and County well may want a "south County "pick up spot."
Tom Ford
Actually tom you are wrong. The building is occupied about 70% by the parks/public works department. And after all these years you are now worried about ventilation and ADA requirements. I didn't realize that you were so concerned with the well being of those at the shelter. Oh, and don't forget that part-time range for 20k. Its easy to twist things so it appears your point is fact. However, you post half truths or misinformation. If you have 20 facts you will only post the 2 or 3 that you think will back your position. Let your readers hear all the info. Your answer for everything is give it to county. How many times did you say turn the sappington house to county. Sounds like you don't want to eliminate anything just pass the buck to St. Louis county. I'm not in the habit of passing my responsibilities off on others. Are you?
9:11 PM Blogger : Sorry but you are wrong ! Where do you find your lost dog, at the main building ? Nope it's at the so called shelter in the park !
That's the building I am talking about, not the "main building !"
Passing the buck ? No I want to stop the buck right here, terminate the stupid program right now and save the funds for more meaningfully things in Crestwood !
Now if you want to pay for it, fine because the majority do not !
Tom Ford
there you go again, with "the majority". You have absolutely no idea what the majority of anyone wants or doesn't want on this or any other subject. You are guessing because it fits with what you want. As someone above said, there is/was a petition that had close to 10% of the residents signatures on it. Are you really trying to state that beside those names, every single other person in Crestwood agrees with you?? You must be delusional.Face it: there are many in this town with different priorities and feelings, and since you're not a dictator OR in charge...well you get the idea. Suffice it to say disagreeing with you doesn't make it automatically a bad idea.Soem might say it actually lends credence.
Bravo, 9:45 poster! I'll do you one better: Mr. Ford, when you say majority of the residents, where are you getting those figures? You're pretty big on everyone providing facts and figures for you, so how about it? Tell me where I can look up the data that backs up your statement.
The only thin Tom knows about "majority " is that a "majority " of the citizens did not want him to be alderman a few years back.....
"there is/was a petition that had close to 10% of the residents signatures on it."
There was a rumor about that, with all kinds of claims, but the actual thing never surfaced. So there is no way to tell if it was legitimate, or if qualified people actally signed it.
John,
The petition does indeed exist and copies were distributed to the aldermen.
Martha Duchild
Martha,
Any idea to the breakdown in vote per ward?
Thanks
If, as it has been reported the supporters of our current Animal Control system have a large number of supporters, I would think they would be happy to have those members of the BOA who have voted with them in the past, support a ballot issue on the next regular scheduled election, as I have suggested.
I know one of my Alderman would vote to have this non binding issue on the ballot, so I am sure if all those concerned from both sides wanted to they could ask their Alderman to do the same.
All that is needed is 5 members of the BOA for a simple majority or 7(or is it 6?) to be able to over ride the mayors veto. Lets stop this and settle it once and for all.
but it would not be settled once and for all. Another year would go by, and Mr. Ford would start in again, with wild, unprovable statements about the "majority of residents", etc. etc., giving all services but police and fire to the county... It would be right back to this, so I am not sure it's worth the effort. By the way,Mr. Ford, I am still hoping for your guidance about where I can look up your claim of a "majority" of residents do not want animal control and/or the animal shelter.Pardon me while I do not take your word for it...I want to see the data with my own eyes. Please tell me where I may find thses figures.
The back and forth of the animal control dept and director on this blog has several of you very riled up. The points made certainly are food for thought considering the city's finannces, but you seem to think that eliminating this dept will solve most of our problems. You don't delve too deeply into our legal bills or #of police cars, white shirts, demands of a union controlled fire dept, and whether or not they are fair, or staff #'s excessive for a town of 4sq miles and 12,000 residents. You imply that those who may have signed a petition or who care about this department and want to save it do not care about our bottom line. Turn up the air cond at city hall, utilize part time employees, job share, how many assistants are needed? How many salaries are scrutinized? Many don't use the parks or the pool, but don't get on here and want to do away with them believing their opinion is the only one that matters. Yep, I know I can just not read this blog if I don't like it but why should I deny a 2nd opinion that apparently represents an opinion on how our tax dollars are shared. This subject seems to loom on the border of incivility. Why, because it appears that otherwise nice people in town who care less about pets, animals, and the whole idea of civic participating in same, are so eager to insinuate that the rest of us are are loggerheads on the matter. No not in words, in insinuations. Get a bigger soapbox to expand on and get serious about all the ways to hold down cost. Be inclusive. This bellyaching seems to be stuck on stubborn. Where does that take our city? Human nature has created lots of tax payers who consider thisdept of our city an endearing part of the city 12 months a year, not just in summer.
"The petition does indeed exist and copies were distributed to the aldermen."
Ms. Duchild,
So if someone wanted to see it, it could be requested via FOIA ?
Thanks,
John
10:06 PM Blogger: well I am glad you asked that ! I am sure you are a whiz at math so how about we take ALL the animal adoption club members walking door to door and standing at the library (and other locations) gathering signatures. Toss in the Susie Sutton mystique, add it up and we have no more than 700 signatures to keep it, right ?
Now since there are 12,000 residents in Crestwood you all garnered 5.8 % of the people who live in Crestwood (assuming they were residents,) which leaves a clear MAJORITY of 94.2 % who apparently did not sign and thus must be placed in the "do not want it column !
Add to that the SunCrest Call poll that ran for three weeks and came up with 92% against, and you have what (to anyone I know) a MAJORITY !
11:12 Pm Blogger: Right you are but even I garnered more votes (percentage wise)
than the animal adoption club has been able to muster, right ?
By the way can we assume that YOU have run for office, or would you be one of the nameless who haven't paid your dues in the political arena but yet feel it's OK to squawk from "the cheap seat's ?"
Pray tell what vast experience have you in placing your name out there as from what I can see your not brave enough to sign it on a simple blog !
Tom Ford
Actually I am not a volunteer at the shelter, if that's what you're implying. I did, however, do some digging around on this very blog and found another thread where you argued about this. I read where you tried to claim that 40 votes in an online poll counted more than 700 signatures. Good Lord. So, as usual, you are right and everyone else is wrong. It is pointless to get you to see that maybe, just maybe, YOU are wrong. I will leave this thought, though..did it ever occcur to you that all the other names aren't on the petition because they weren't asked? If you want to see the petition, ask your buddies Mr. Miguel or Mr. Duchild. I am sure they will provide you with a copy if you ask. Mrs. Duchild said all the aldermen got a copy.
Well you know what they say when you assume. It makes an a** out of u and me. I didn't sign the petition nor am I in favor of eliminating it. I'm ok with you wanting to eliminate animal control and I understand your point of view. Don't agree with it but understand. What I don't understand is why you continue to post inaccurate information. If it is an opinion that is one thing, but numbers and percentages that are incorrect just are retarded. The suncrest call polled about a hundred residents. The mayor won his last election with almost 100% of the vote. By your rational that must mean everyone in crestwood voted for the mayor. Oh, that's right he ran unopposed and only about 2,000 people voted. See my point. I don't know why I even ask but, are there 12,000 registered voters or 12,000 residents?
Also, you are wrong Tom. Have you ever been inside the animal control building? The building is roughly 60'x30' of which animal control occupies a 10'x10' section. The rest is occupied by parks/public works. I'm not talking about City Hall.
So let's see. "A poll that ran for three weeks and came up with 92% against". Hmmm. Well, that means, if the posters here are correct, that in nearly a month only 40 people voted, and even of those, 8%were for keeping it open? So even a biased paper like the Call had some "pro" votes. That is NOT, in fact a majority of Crestwood residents, it's 40 people. You should really stop throwing that around like it's fact. In reality, it's far from fact, it's whatever alternate universe you choose to live in. I am shocked at soe of things you present as fact on here. Now is typically where you bluster and shout in all caps that it's YOUR blog and you can say whatever you like, right? Even fabrications and outright lies?
to the 7:48 poster,, no, there are millions of registered voters in Crestwood and every single one opposes the animal shelter. Haven't you been reading? Every person in this city hates animals and the shelter and the mere thought of adopting animals into homes. EVERYONE. Just ask Mr. Ford.
All of you still miss the the following points
1.) This is a duplicte service
2.) We just asked for employees to assume a significantly increased financial burden for health care.
3.) Elimination of the duplicate service would have created available cash that would have been used to lower the significant health care financial burden to the rest of the employees
4.) Suzie is well past retirement age and can use the social security system.
Debate that for awhile.
"If you want to see the petition, ask your buddies Mr. Miguel or Mr. Duchild. I am sure they will provide you with a copy if you ask."
I "assume" that barb is aimed at me, so I'll respond.
First, none of the aldermen, or the mayor are my "buddies". And those you mentioned don't represent my ward. I have talked to mine about this matter in the past, and have talked to them about other matters too.
But this is past history, and will probably not be considered again for some time. So I will not bother them on this right now, and will learn more about this for myself. I will try the FOIA route, and see what happens.
Gee I do love it when you "progressive / liberals get your shorts in a wad !
Did you have your petition "certified ?' no, you did not ! Do we know who signed it ?, no again because they could be your crazy aunt and uncle in the attic in Peoria!
Let me say this for once and for all, stop spending MY MONEY on a darned adoption club for liberals ! If you want this travesty, pay for it and get your hand out of my pocket !
Tom Ford
John,
If the petitions were distributed to the aldermen, I assume they are public records so you can do a FOIA request.
I'm not sure where you want to go with this, but I'll repeat what I said earlier: Regardless of whether you are for or against keeping the service, it is a budget item that is reviewed on a yearly basis. While the petition served the purpose of demonstrating to the BOA that some people care enough about the service this year to sign a petition, it cannot protect this service in perpetuity.
Arguing over how many people signed or whether it represented a majority is an exercise in futility at this point. The service was kept for this year's budget, and will be up for consideration next year.
Perhaps those who strongly favor or oppose keeping the service would be better served by expressing their opinions to the board at budget time.
Martha Duchild
I had a feeling Mr. Ford would resort to yelling. So now the only people who support animal control are liberals?? No Republicans at all, huh?You know this how? Good heavens, man, listen to yourself! It really sounds like you're a half a bubble off center.
The progressive/liberals, whatever that means, are more than likely getting a real hoot out of all this. No shorts, no knot. Hope it is alright for a god fearing Conservative to like animals and to find the name calling and nastiness unecessary. It stands to reason that officials in the annexed section who got a good deal when they annexed might want to examine cost cuts to adjust the burden. And someone with a relative in the city workforce has a dog in the health ins. issue. However, beyond this blog I don't think there will be riots in the streets.
Mrs. Duchild, I agree completely. Your words are as true as can be. I just have a moral problem with outright lies being presented as fact. It goes against everything I believe in. So, when I see it, I call it. Mr. ford, in saying a majority of Crestwood doesn't want animal control or the shelter, is perpetuating an outright lie. 40 people from a web poll is not a majority of residents, no matter how you count. I agree, though, these opinions need to be expressed elsewhere. This forum is hopless.
"I'm not sure where you want to go with this,..."
Ms. Duchild,
I don't want to go anywhere with it. There has been so much hoopla from both sides about this petition, that I would just like to see what it is.
As I said, I know this is a dead issue until the next budget discussion.
John
NOT dead if we can get it on the ballot!
What an interesting site, one where posts go missing. Hmmmmm.
5:28 Pm Blogger: What posts are "missing ?" I am the only one with the "kill switch," and I do not remember dropping a post unless it was offensive to the masses, or accusatory without a signature .
Tom Ford
Is it possible that nether the Pro Animal control folks and the Anti Animal control group don't really want this issue put to rest?
I have offered a totally non partisan
idea of a putting a non binding ballot on the August or November election and except for Mr.Ford, no one has said, "hey, that might be a good way to end this internal fight and allow us to focus on the other problems in our city, let's put down our fists and get it on the ballot".
It would seem that both groups, who feel they have the upper hand in support from the voters would be hounding (no pun intended) their Alderman to get this done.
It's worse than the Hatfield and McCoy feud from (with all do respect to the current Mayors home state) West VA.
Tim
Trueblood
I actually did make a statement about that. I stated that it would most definitely NOT be "over" after a vote. If animal control won, then in a short while Mr. Ford would be back at it, grinding and moaning and screaming about again. If animal control lost, then he'd after the powers that be to shut it down, fire the animal control officer(even as he screams about poor empolyees losing their jobs..hers apparently doesn't count)etc, etc. It will NEVER be over, so I fail to see the point in going to all that effort. If it would play out differently, I would be all for it, as would the volunteers, I would guess.
Liberal ?
12:54 PM Blogger: or is it "friend of Suzie ?"
The unfortunate truth is that certain positions in good times are allowed due to the funding being there. However we are in very bad times and the funding is drying up very quickly.
At the next budget session some things are going to have to be curtailed, and since Ms. Sutton's position is a duplicate of a service we already pay for, she is unfortunately the obvious choice. I would think she can retire at her age, and move on, but for whatever reason she chooses to stay, which is fine if she wants to do it part time, or at half salary.
You can take to the bank the fact that Crestwood is not going to get a tax increase (the last one failed 72% to 28%) due to the spend thrift ways our leadership has blown what we give them now, so it's a fact that something will have to go.
Now if you want to put this on the ballot as a non-binding referendum, that's fine with me, but I suggest that it's not going to come out in your favor, so you won't push for it.
Look around you, were going out of the retail business and thus the tax base is going down to retail zero quickly. That means we must cut, and do it quickly to avoid the entire ship sinking, or would you rather have the bank charge the new fee's for "insufficient funds" for our cashed checks the Government just past ?
Tom Ford
(Believer in very conservative Government.)
Shrewsbury is tossing around ideas for bringing WalMart to their city or another development. They, too, need some revenue. their policemen have not received a raise in 3 years.
I would rather give Sappington House to the County than animal control. Could our code officer and the animal control officer work part time? What are the salaries of Dept heads? In other words, this blog has been used primarily as a sword against just the one position and against anyone whose opinion sounds in the least liberal. Liberal is not a dirty word. The Constitution did not provide for just 1 party. It is hard to sell sour butter with an attitude. How noticeable for the site to beat to death notes possted that are not agreeable with this agenda. I just didn't realize a blog site was simply a soapbox for only one idea.
well, 3:42 poster, now you know. 1 way of thinking, one set of ideas, one opinion. Get used to it or leave, as some others have recently when they could no longer stand it. This blog is actually, in its intended form, a wonderful idea. A place where residents can kick around ideas, brainstorm things to improve our city. Not the case in practice, however. Mr. Ford's way or no way. Perhaps another blog somewhere else, where these good ideas can acually be voiced and maybe put into practice? here all there is negativity, hatred of anything not conservative, and the constant knowledge that a differing opinion will be attacked in all caps, always with the justification that IT'S HIS BLOG!!!!! And of course, the constant, never ending complaining and whining about animal control, always present, never ending.
"This blog is actually, in its intended form, a wonderful idea. A place where residents can kick around ideas, brainstorm things to improve our city. Not the case in practice, however. Mr. Ford's way or no way."
I agree with the first part, but not the second part.
I have seen all sorts of ideas, thoughts, and opinions posted, and the number deleted, I could count on the fingers of one hand, with a couple fingers missing.
All kinds of things have been discussed, and people, including Tom, have agreed with some, and disagreed with others. But that is the way with every group.
If I don't have anything to say on a particular topic put up, I don't comment.
With a newspaper, you can send them a letter, and they may post it or not (plus there is quite a delay). The TV news is a one way street. There are many blogs around these days, but I don't know of any others about Crestwood. Let me know if you know of any.
Posting here is very fast. You can sometimes get a back, and forth discussion going, or you can check in several times a day.
This blog has lost touch with its intended form. It has become a forum for slants against any form of even the most moderate liberal thought.It labels any liberal smidge of ideas in accusatory fashion. Not really very sophisticated nor condusive to fair and balanced debate. While I have seen many ideas many times with alternate suggestions on cost cutting, no one bothers to pick up on them knowing animal control will reign. It would be a stretch to imagine any of our officials who might read this blog would take it seriously because of the big hammer approach.
Apparently keeping on tract with Crestwood as the core is too boring albeit efforts to blast animal control and Mayor Roy with its antagonistic flair is prominate verbage.Yes, the blog belongs to the head man; this is abundantly clear. My reading it is voluntary on my part. Being a blog, however, should allow bloggers the benefit of not being called liberal like it is leprosy. It is not. I am not. but when I see democracy presented in the form of ugly Americans carrying ugly signs, uncalled for activity, saying Back to Kenya Obama, it does
not make me the least mad. It only presents the real significance of the hate which resides in some people. And this does not make America or Crestwood one bit better. When you live in the greatest country in the world, why does one party insist on lowrating any one in the nation who has opposing views, starting on a small blog in a small city trying to please some of the people some of the time.
You only got part of the old saying:
You can "please some of the people some of the time" , but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
11:00 AM Blogger: Well heres your chance to post the threads you want to see. If you will see above I have asked you, and everyone else to write the thread, and send it to me to post.
Will you do it ? Time will tell.
Tom Ford
I know that,but I heard it as "you can please some of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time"
Anyway I said it like I preferred.
when you are dealing on an itsy local blog with bloggers who sound like they cotton to placing spears in a presidents hand dressed in native rig, well I must consider changing parties. There is no resemblance to the party of Reagan or human decency for that matter. Sounds like 5th grade on the playground. You really don't give a big hoot about a partial quote now do you? But thanks for reminding me, 'cause I could have been wrong.
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