We paid $10,000.00 for a "lighting survey?" Good Grief!
It has recently come to my attention that the public works department under the supervision of Dzenana Mruckovski authorized a "Lighting survey" to see if we could save money by "re-lamping" Crestwood grounds.
At first blush this would seem to be a great idea until you realize that virtually every electrical / energy savings company in St. Louis will do it FREE! You see much like the HVAC business where we routinely give a load calculation and (if needed) a duct design with the quote, the energy saving company will do the survey for nothing if asked.
So, that said if we do "re-lamp" we will have effectively added $10,000.00 to the lowest bidder on the job. "How can I spend your money? Let me count the ways!" Mr. Eckrich,do you really feel this is the best use of our taxpayer money, and why didn't you tell her it could have been done for nothing with a quote?
In the name of all that's decent, please do not ask the good citizens of Crestwood for any sort of tax increase as long as this sort of waste continues!
Tom Ford
NO. 794
At first blush this would seem to be a great idea until you realize that virtually every electrical / energy savings company in St. Louis will do it FREE! You see much like the HVAC business where we routinely give a load calculation and (if needed) a duct design with the quote, the energy saving company will do the survey for nothing if asked.
So, that said if we do "re-lamp" we will have effectively added $10,000.00 to the lowest bidder on the job. "How can I spend your money? Let me count the ways!" Mr. Eckrich,do you really feel this is the best use of our taxpayer money, and why didn't you tell her it could have been done for nothing with a quote?
In the name of all that's decent, please do not ask the good citizens of Crestwood for any sort of tax increase as long as this sort of waste continues!
Tom Ford
NO. 794
posted by Crestwood Independent at 17:26
78 Comments:
But that's how we do in Roysiavaina.
Milo Mindbender
$10,000 is not exactly petty cash. Why would a dept head be given authority to spend this kind of money without aldermanic authority? Did the BOA know about this? Why did the CAdmn. not catch this? No one can balance a budget with this kind of spending and lack of oversight. Loose ends, or what!
7:42 PM Blogger: Well it seems that our fiefdom is set up to spend up to $10,000.00 without approval from the Board. Is that right? I don't believe it is, but that's the way they do it.
What have we produced of note with this brilliant idea?
Executive chair: $1475.00
New web site: $7000.00
lighting survey: $10,000.00
And God knows what else we don't know about yet. Crestwood is not exactly the tightest run ship in the harbor my friends. Remember the little fiasco when a resident was allowed to have some advertising done on the City account? We were reimbursed, but would we have been if it had not been reported?
I am thinking I can use a new shotgun for hunting season this year and I wonder if I too (as a resident) can use the Cities buying power at Denny Dennis Sporting Goods, and pay them back later?
One thing is for sure, Crestwood loves paying retail plus, and will do it at the drop of a dime. They must be commended for one thing though, this Regime never disappoints, you expect the ridiculous, and boy do you get it!
Tom Ford
Doesn't say much for the BOA, now does it? Must be embarrasing.
Maybe they just abstained.
Maybe there will be a light at the end of the tunnel? ...sorry, I had to.
Are you sure Tom? I'm pretty sure this was associated with an ARRA grant. You might want to check it out.
1:03 PM Blogger: There is no grant in existence at this time, They have applied for the grant you speak of, however it's not here now, and may never be here. Please don't tell me were betting on the come now.
None the less the bottom line we have spent $10,000.00 we did not have to for an item that was free to everyone else.
By the way, I am curious to know where you think the money comes from in the so called "grant?" Wouldn't that be "tax payer money" and by extension us?
Tom Ford
12:20 AM Blogger: Good one, we need humor to watch the shenanigans at City Hall these day's.
With this gang if there is a light at the end of the tunnel, you can bet it's a train!
Tom Ford
Was this put into the city budget? If not why not. If so, why so?
can anyone say fiduciary responsibility?
can anyone say inaccurate information.
What's inaccurate? Please provide proof to back up your statement.
why should I give proof. No one else does. If you want proof go up to city hall and find out for yourself. Or call Creve Coeur.
I do not know what proof you want but I saw the survey, the bill, know the company that performed the service, and the person that performed the service.
We did spend $10000 for a survey that is offered for free in the market place. I work for a company that is in the market and Crestwood's action was a topic at many laughing sessions about how inadequate the business of government is.
What information do you want to share?
I am waiting.......
I'm waiting for the accurate information that you are to provide. Since we all know that any purchase that equals or exceeds $10,000 has to be approved by the board of alderman. I know the company that preformed the lighting survey as well. And I know the grant which is for multiple cities and which city is the primary. So, you say we did and I say we didn't.
Still waiting
still waiting
7:49 PM Blogger: Were all waiting, but alas I fear this is not forthcoming as the poster HAS NO PROOF to the contrary or it would have been on here by now!
We spent it, the grant is not here yet (if ever,) it was wasteful, and it was not necessary as it would have been done FREE.
Typical Government "tax and spend" if you ask me!
Tom Ford
No Tom, I'm waiting for you and the other poster to prove we spent $10,000. No department can spend that money without it going to the board. Just because you got some information from a previous aldermen doesn't make it correct. At least that is where I assume you got it from since he is in that field(although their company was not involved). It reminds me of a tax increase that the aldermen voted to have it put on the ballot as long as they increased the amount. Voted in favor of having it on the ballot and then campaigned against it. And told everyone he was against it from the start. If you are against it don't vote to have it on the ballot. Come on Tom. Time for a retraction. I surprised how far off the mark you are on this one.
8:09 pm Aug 25
11:55 am Aug 26
9:52 pm Aug 26
3:57 pm Aug 27
7:49 pm Aug 27
Not my name but my posts.
8:41 Am Blogger: some questions for you.
1. Is the grant money in our hands now?
2. Did we spend the money?
3. Could we have gotten it free?
4. Did the BOA vote on it?
Just for clarification the answers are here.
1. No
2. yes
3. yes
4. No
So there you have it my friend, and by the way we are still in the hole for the amount spent should we try to recoup with "energy savings." That means we have to recoup that much more before we start seeing a savings.
Tom Ford
let me help Tom
1 its in Creve Couers hands
2 no we didn't
3 we did
4 Not yet. Will be taken once all information has been finalized.
But, you hate grant money anyway, right Tom. If you ask me I would much rather have some of that federal money come to crestwood instead of going to welfare, food stamps, or section 8
3:07 PM Blogger: Well I am from Missouri pal, SHOW ME! And what do you mean it's in Creve Couers hands?
Right, and the Easter Bunny is bringing it here!
Tom Ford
Grant money means that evil liberals have reached into his personal pocket and snatched his money and given it away. Liberals have NO RIGHT to want to help others, darn it, not as long as conservatives can hoard it all for themselves. Just ask Glenn Beck right after he talks about evil, horrible rich people abusing everyone around them. (His 32 million dollar a year salary notwithstanding, of course.)
3:07 PM Blogger: By the way you has best be a bit careful with your remarks there, they seem to border on racism these days. What will your "progressive / liberal" friends think of you?
Tom Ford
3:27 PM Blogger: Gee your finally starting to get it! rant money is ALL of our money that never should have left our pockets in the first place!
You know like a $750,000.00 bridge to nowhere in the park!
Tom Ford
Racism?? what in the world are you talking about?
4:51 PM Blogger: In your own words.
"But, you hate grant money anyway, right Tom. If you ask me I would much rather have some of that federal money come to Crestwood instead of going to welfare, food stamps, or section 8"
That's what.
Tom Ford
Perhaps the facts below may help with the referenced racism question:
(1) Welfare Statistics ~ 38.8% of welfare recipients are white (ranked #1)
(2) Food Stamp Statistics ~ 41% of participants are white (ranked #1)
The fact that whites comprise the largest percentage of recipients of these need-based programs must have been the point that he was trying to make.
We payed $10000 for a lighting audit. I now the person and the company who received the money.
again any purchase of $10,000 or more would have to be approved by the board of alderman. But, I would image you already knew that.
Thanks 4:51 and 6:39
The bubble Tom lives in he can't get that type of information.
When you get bad information from a bitter person you will get the wrong info. Someone in that field. Someone that used to be on the board. Which makes it even that much more wrong. I also know the name of the company and person who did the lighting survey. Do you want to post it to try and gain some credibility.
6:39 PM Blogger: NICE TRY, but no cigar!
Tom Ford
7:17 PM Blogger: Well I guess as soon as I find the door to my "bubble" I will file a FOIA form for the billing and post it here for your edification.
"The problem with liberals is that sooner or later they run out of other peoples money."
Dame Margret Thatcher
Tom Ford
Here is my take, the 3rd paragraph in particular, in since "conservatives" on here seem to be of such a self centered mind:
"If by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind,
someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions,
someone who cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -
someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad,
if that is what they mean by a “Liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.” ~ John F. Kennedy, 1960
8:18 AM Blogger:
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
Tom Ford
And yet no one can post which company received the cash.
well, since we love Churchill so much, here are a few of his little nuggets that apply:
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Winston Churchill
(read, obsession with socialism and not with solving the current problems)
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
Winston Churchill
(read birthers, the president is a socialist, etc)
A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill
(take what you will from this)
See? You aren't the only one who can make famous quotes fit your opinions. What does that ability have to do with anything at hand?
FOIA form for the bill sent!
I really do not know, I just followed your lead!
Tom Ford
still waiting.
11:51 AM Blogger: Well it's in Tina Flowers hands now as I put the FOIA form in for the information on Monday.
As soon as I get it I will Scan it and post it, so hold your horses.
Tom Ford
Careful Tom. I smell a rat. You may be led to a slaughter by this poster who may have some insight and he is playing you.
Well, that's what happens when you post inaccurate information. Perhaps next time we should do our research first before we start slamming our employees. "Good Grief".
And just so you know 7:50 I didn't have to lead him anywhere. He freely walked down that path with some horrible information that he got. I would suggest researching things a little better next time. We also had a poster who had all this insight on our $10,000 expenditure. I would assume it was the same one Tom got his info from. Tom was 100% sure we spent the money and there is no grant. Still haven't heard from my fellow anonymous poster that knows the company. I can verify if your even in the ballpark. But, your probably not which is why you haven't.
Be careful when you assume. I was alsways told assuming can make an ass out u and me.
Usually. But, I haven't been wrong regarding this post yet. So far I'm about the only one that hasn't made an ass out of them selves.
First time poster and this is interesting.
How is it that you can say that you are correct when you have not posted any evidence to support the statements?
The question of the quantity of money spent is not important to me.
What is important to me is:
Did we spend money for a survey that is normaly offered for free?
Did we receive any grant money as result of spending the money on a survey?
Can we recover the amount of money spent for the survey?
How long will the recovery take?
Will you please give us the details?
The amount of money that was spent is under $2000 and will be credit to us in materials. This is part of a multi-city grant that has Creve Couer as the primary. As far as claiming I'm correct, typically those making accusations are required to have proof. And since Tom and others are unable to provide it and I am aware of what is happening I can say I'm correct. There are two companies involved. And no one can post who they are. Well I know who they are, I'm just waiting for Tom and friends to finish doing their homework:)
7:19 AM Blogger, 12:04 Blogger: Well we have the report and it is as follows.
1. We did pay for the survey.
2. It was less than $10,000.00
3. Holt Electric did the survey.
4. A Gentleman named M.J. did the proposal.
5. The survey is not complete with the part numbers needed to do it.
6. Total estimated cost is $89,500.00
7. Crestwood portion is approximately $48,000.00.
8. The survey would have been free elsewhere.
9. The Grant date may or may not be given to us.
10. If Holt is not awarded the bid, we will receive no refund of the survey costs.
Should anyone wish to see the documents please call (341-2307) or email me, and I shall make myself available to show them to you. Failing that, you may file your own FOIA form and get them from City hall as I did.
Tom Ford
12:04 PM Blogger: There was one company the did this not two, unless you wish to count Crescent Electric which was not considered as Holt already had the deal.
I thought you said we did not pay "anything out?"
Tom Ford
At no point did I ever say that we didn't spend any money. I stated several times that we didn't spend $10,000 dollars. I could have said the amount was about 15% of that, but that wasn't my point. Check your facts before you attack. No I'm not referring to Crescent Electric where you apparently got you very inaccurate information. Why don't you tell all of us where you got your miss information from. I bet I can guess. I won't even need twenty questions. The second company is the one doing some of the labor. Not Holt as they are only supplying materials.
the august 8th 3:27 post said it was free. I presume this was your post
9:52 poster. Which is it? Did we pay for a survey?
Does Creve Couer have the grant in hand and awarding it some how?
Did we buy hardware?
What second company are you referring to as supplying labor?
I am confused. Please help.
I guess you mean Aug 28th at 3:27pm? Since this topic didn't come up on the 8th. That was not my post. And even that post didn't say anything about money spent. Or perhaps you are referring to 3:07pm on the same day? Where I said we didn't spend $10,000. Line 3 I could see how it could be interpreted differently. What was paid will go directly to material, not time spent doing the survey.
Thanks for your reply.
SO I conclude we did pay for a survey.
Have we received any money from the grant we applied for or from Creve Couer?
You mentioned a second company doing some labor but did not state the name of the company. What is the name of that company?
If this as of yet to be identified company is supplying labor I assume we have started the process of replacing lighting in the city of Crestwood. Where might I observe the replaced lights?
Thanks again for your help to understand this event.
5:41 AM Blogger: " What was paid will go directly to material, not time spent doing the survey. "
Not according to the paperwork I have. What we paid is going for the survey, the material is not included. If you want to see it go to City Hall and read it for your self.
7:12 AM Blogger: We have done nothing to date other than to pay for the survey. The grant money may, or may not come to Creve Couer for the project.
In reading the survey it seems to be vague as to increases in cost's, utility increases, and possible labor increases. So the listed "pay back" period could be from 3 years to ? due to things like Cap and Trade that would add a 40% increase to electric costs.
Is this a bad idea? No it is not, that said however I still wonder why we paid for it when everyone else in the area will do it free.
Unless the labor costs are in the total this could end up costing a fortune for a small return indeed.
Again, I have the complete story to date in the copies of the bills, survey, and remarks by both parties. I urge you to come over and see them for your self.
Tom Ford
If that were true you would have read where the $1500 paid to Holt will go completely to material.
9:47 PM Blogger: It is true, and I quote.
"Regarding program fees."
"This fee will be credited 100% toward Holt Electrical supplies material bid during the bidding stage of the project! (if Holt is not awarded the material contract then our fee will be due as indicated above.)"
Unless your telling me the fix is in and they WILL be awarded the material sale, I am telling you it is true.
Your still welcome to come over and read it for yourself, and that will be my last word om this subject.
Tom Ford
They already have been awarded the material contract. And Vision electric has been award the labor contract for those cities that will not be installing them in house.
So the grant has been awarded and the money distributed?
When does the installation begin or has it already started?
11:09 AM Blogger: "They already have been awarded the material contract."
Funny, when was the bidding process for this? Was this awarded minus a bid? Does the BOA know anything about this?
You are telling us that we are going to spend about $48,000.00 on this and no one but you knows about it? Pray tell the date or dates of the BOA meeting when they approved the contracts so we may look it up.
Better yet,Show us the signed contract for both of these companies. As of now I do not believe the grant has made it's way to us, nor has there been any work (other than the survey) done so far, yet you say the bidding is done!
If this is true (and I doubt it) we have a much bigger problem than I thought!
Tom Ford
I would suggest contacting public works or your aldermen if you would like the complete picture of what is going on.
3:03 PM Blogger: I have a FOIA form in for any and all contracts, and I have called a couple of Alderman (they don't recall anything like this being passed.)
Since you seem to have the "inside track" maby you can tell us.
Tom Ford
Your right Tom. "We paid $10,000.00 for a "lighting survey?" Good Grief!"
PEOPLE!!! PEOPLE!!!
Did we receive any grant money for this project?
Has this project started in Crestwood?
I have asked these same questions several times and no one answers.
9:10 PM Blogger: As of now we have NOT received the funding (we may never,) and the work has NOT started.
I have a Freedom Of Information Act form in for the contracts "anonymous" tells us are signed and sealed!
When the form is returned we will see IF "anonymous" is right or wrong, I am betting he /she is wrong and the bid has not been awarded or voted on.
If you want to see what I have so far, email me at tford60@earthlink.net
Tom Ford
Well here is the latest on this subject from the City. I believe I am right, CRESTWOOD has not accepted any bids, nor has it been voted on by Crestwood to date. It seems that we banded with several Cities to get this grant, and no funds were awarded to Crestwood as of yet.
"energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grant (EECBG) Program: The lead grant applicant, the City of Creve Coeur, publicly opened the bids for this project on August 10, 2010. The bids were reviewed and the results were presented to the participating cities on August 18, 2010. Public Works staff is meeting with the lead applicant in order to review the scope of the project and discuss other details. A contract for this project will likely be presented to the Board of Aldermen in September."
Wouldn't it have been much simpler to put this out in the beginning and avoid all the Q & A on the subject?
Tom Ford
I like how you believe you are right. When almost 2 weeks later your starting to get the picture. Pretty far off the mark you were Tom, but then again the story would have been a bite boring if you got your facts straight from the get go. Still haven't heard where you got your bad info from.
11:09 AM Blogger: I was, and am right when it comes to Crestwood. The only thing I had wrong was the price we (Crestwood) paid for the audit (and that amount paid by all might still be correct if you add up all the Cities.)
We need to know how many Cities are involved and we will then know if at $1500.00 (or more, depending on the amount of buildings) per City $10,000.00 was correct.I still say it could have and should have been free, and you know it.
By the way, did you notice that Amren UE is asking for a rate increase of about .99 cents per day? If they get it (darn near a sure thing,) that will toss out the survey in that the resulting savings will be wrong. Will it be re-done before the BOA vote, and where is the money for this project anyway?
As far a my source, you know everything about this (or so you intimate) so you figure it out and tell us.
Tom Ford
"I was and am right when it comes to Crestwood". On all subjects? Not so much.
2:12 PM Blogger:We all have our faults and shortcomings. I will be wrong sometimes, but I, unlike you will place my name by my post and take the slings and arrows for it.
Cowardice is not in my family's lexicon!
Tom Ford
I will guess your info came from form aldermen Steve Neider.
er former
4:08 / 09 PM Blogger: Good try but nope, not him.
Tom Ford
I realize its hard for you to see the top of the page Tom. Wink wink. But you said we paid $10,000.00 for a lighting survey. Not that about 8 to 10 cities collectively paid $10,000. But you are always right. I think the cowardice trait you refer to doesn't exist on your wife's side. After all you created and encouraged this blog with the ability to post anonymously. Grant it, I would get a little tired of only posting with Martha, Tim, and John, but its your system. I think if you weren't a coward you would have run for mayor since you "was and am right when it comes to Crestwood."
Well, run for mayor? Nope not my bag. Besides I believe you have Mr. Roby groomed for that job, or is this Mr. Roby?
I may reverse my decision not to know who published what in your case and ask my provider for your IP address and name(simple email will do it.)
Coward? and you still post "anonymously?" Give us all a break, " a coward is as a coward does!"
Tom Ford
Wrong again. But I like the idea of asking your provider. You will have killed your blog all by yourself. I will have to post on page on your inability to give your posters anonymity. I'm sure even your supporters will like that one.
Read this and tell me where they obtain the revenue to fund the bridge to no where, the lighting project you have been discussing on the blog and continue with the animal adoption agency.
CAN YOU SPELL TAX INCREASE IN NOVEMBER OR APRIL 2011?
Sales Taxes: The City’s General, Capital Improvement and Park & Stormwater Funds received $318,150 in sales tax revenues in August 2010. Actual collections represent $102,681, or 24.4 percent, less than the monthly projections of $420,831. Year-to-date actual sales tax revenues of $3,909,720 represent $351,832, or 8.3 percent, less than the projected $4,261,552. As part of the budget preparation, the City Administrator will review the 2010 expenditures and likely recommend a 2010 budget amendment to the Board of Aldermen later this year.
1773 – The Public Advertiser publishes a satirical essay titled Rules By Which A Great Empire May Be Reduced To A Small One written by Benjamin Franklin. An excerpt:
"In laying these Taxes, never regard the heavy Burthens those remote People already undergo, in defending their own Frontiers, supporting their own provincial Governments, making new Roads, building Bridges, Churches and other public Edifices, which in old Countries have been done to your Hands by your Ancestors, but which occasion constant Calls and Demands on the Purses of a new People. Forget the Restraints you lay on their Trade for your own Benefit, and the Advantage a Monopoly of this Trade gives your exacting Merchants. Think nothing of the Wealth those Merchants and your Manufacturers acquire by the Colony Commerce; their increased Ability thereby to pay Taxes at home; their accumulating, in the Price of their Commodities, most of those Taxes, and so levying them from their consuming Customers: All this, and the Employment and Support of Thousands of your Poor by the Colonists, you are entirely to forget. But remember to make your arbitrary Tax more grievous to your Provinces, by public Declarations importing that your Power of taxing them has no Limits, so that when you take from them without their Consent a Shilling in the Pound, you have a clear Right to the other nineteen. This will probably weaken every Idea of Security in their Property, and convince them that under such a Government they have nothing they can call their own; which can scarce fail of producing the happiest Consequences!"
I guess the Crestwood BOA has never read this.
Tom Ford
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