Believe in the "tax the rich" mentality? Please click here for a rather interesting, factual video on the subject.
Ah yes my friends, the people who would take all the profits from the major "evil" corporations and tax the "wealthy" out of existence have been in the news as of late. But what if they are as wrong as wrong can be? (They are you know.)
Please click on the header and tell me how these "tax the wealthy" folks made it out of grade school what with the numbers they toss around. What scares me is the simple fact that a whole bunch of Americans seem to believe in "class warfare," and all the imbecility that goes with it.
Is this "outcome based education" at it's finest, or are we looking at the pure vestiges of Communists evolved from progressive / socialism? As for me I happen to think (heck, I know) it's the latter mixed with some of the former as it would not be possible to get that stupid by yourself, you would need "outcome based education" and the Karl Marx doctrine of "To everyone according to their needs, from everyone according to their means" to even consider such foolishness.
Tom Ford
NO. 974
posted by Crestwood Independent at 17:18
23 Comments:
or, the other side of the coin:
According to Bruce Bartlett, who's held senior policy roles in both Ronald Reagan's and George H. W. Bush's administrations, as well as on the staffs of Reps. Ron Paul and Jack Kemp, "in 2008, those in the top 1 percent of the income distribution, with incomes over $380,000, had an effective tax rate of 23.3 percent. In 1986, a year when the real gross domestic product grew a healthy 3.5 percent, their effective tax rate was 33.1 percent. It has been much lower every year since."
Bartlett, who culled Internal Revenue Service data for his analysis, which appears this week in his New York Times column, goes on to say: "If this group were still paying 33.1 percent, federal revenue would have been more than $166 billion higher in 2008 alone. That would be enough to reduce the budget deficit by about 10 percent this year. If the top 1 percent of taxpayers had continued to pay the same effective tax rate they paid in 1986 every year from 1987 to 2008, the federal debt today would be $1.7 trillion lower.
See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/nWl920
this was written in response to Warren Buffet's comments on needing to tax the rich. There are 2 sides to everything, Mr. Ford, and always more than one opinion out there. What you term "class warfare", others call pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps.
Kerra
Do you fail to understand the fact that if the government confiscated all the wealth in the US we still could not sustain ourselves?
The problem is not revenue. The problem is spending.
Did you fail to see that I was merely presenting the other side, that I did not endorse either?
Kerra
Thanks clearing that up.
I think we would be interested in what you think the problem is and the solution for it?
Thanks
Kerra
Your reply supports the videos primary point.
What is the point you ask?
After you spend all of the wealth generated then what?
1.7 trillion is a minor reduction and has no impact after you spend the additional 3 trillion Obama suggests for 2012.
I think the wealthy that have been getting by not paying what they should ought to pay their fair share of taxes. That said, I am under no illusion that that will "fix" anything. I do not for one moment agree that administrations that favor and coddle the super rich are doing this country any favors. I feel that is done to curry favor for campaign funding. But I do feel that, even though it wouldn't solve the whole problem, it should still be done. 1.7 trillion is better than not doing anything. I lso feel that jobs must be created, and money will have to be spent up front to accomplish that. Solutions? I have none really. But I do think something needs to be done to create jobs and generate funds, and sitting around pouting and fighting so far has not gotten it done.
So Kerra, regarding your sense of fairness about the rich not paying their fair share of taxes, does that apply to the almost 50% of Americans who pay NO federal tax at all? Shouldn't they pay something to have some skin in the game?
well, actually, yes. Those who do not pay taxes of any kind should contribute something.
4;52 PM Blogger: Kerra, Call it what you will but you and I both know this is a ploy by Obama and his minions to exploit CLASS WAREFARE, pure and simple!
Kerra I do believe that whether or not you intended to do it you have made my point for me. You seem to be on the side of "their fair share" and I am saying that they do pay their fair share and then some.
Who would you ask for a job? A poor person or a successful business man who has amassed wealth? Face it the people your trying o defend don't want to work, they don't want to pursue the brass ring, but rather to have everything given to them! Doubt me, well just watch the news and listen to the "occupy__________?" who "demand" that their education be free and the get what they want immediately.
Kerra, the socialist / progressive attitudes have bankrupted the=is Country, were broke and Obama wants another three TRILLION dollars to spend in 2012, where's that money coming from?
By the way, Warren Buffet is fighting (and has been for two years) the IRS over a "measly" 1 billion dollars that HE owes OUR Government, so please leave that tax dodger out of any discussion with me.
Now if you really want to "pull yourselves up by your boot straps" may I suggest your friends all do it the old fashioned way (I did,) go out, get a job and work for what you want because the rest of us are tired of carrying them!
The free lunch shop is closed, and will shutter for good in November, 2012.
Tom Ford
Tom, and Kerra,
So what do you propose to do with the Veterans who are disabled mentally, and physically, and others in depressed areas, who are unable to find jobs, homes, employment, or treatment?
Kill 'em all?
Of course many of them do not seek or get benefits. Or qualify for VA care.
Kerra, you know the rich do pay some taxes, right? Which is more than near 50% of Americans now pay, right? So before we INCREASE taxes on those already paying taxes, should we make the non payers pay something so we see how much more we need from the rich?
Mr. Ford, I merely presented the "other side" of the arguement, I did not endorse it. While I refuse to lay all the problems we have at Obama's feet as you do, I realize he has made mistakes. John, I have no idea what to do about disabled veterans, or anyone who is severely disabled for that matter. Perhaps Mr. Ford can inspire them to quit sitting on their bums asking for handouts from those of us who are willing to work. Mr. Trueblood, I am aware that many wealthy people pay their taxes. I am also aware that most who do not are able to do so because of perfectly legitimate loopholes that allow it legally. I disagree with that. I also disagree with being attacked for presenting even a fleeting idea of another opinion. Good grief. This is why my conservative upbringing has been revamped in my adult life. My family was this way growing up: rather than talk about different options or thoughts, a full blown verbal attack was launched at the slightest hint of another opinion.
John and Kerra, there are those among us who do deserve (and need) assistance and we all know it.
Now I think you both know that I have no axe to grind when it comes to helping anyone, right?
I do however call a halt to the idiocy of Americans paying for illegal aliens who do not and will not even apply for citizenship, and their relations who are on the public dole.
Unfortunately we also seem to be paying for the "welfare society" fostered by the Democrat party under the guidance of Lyndon Banes Johnson. That little social experiment has made it more profitable for families to be separated rather than stay as a unit, and 40 years later were really paying for it.
This welfare mentality cuts across ALL lines political, race, creed, and religions and is nothing more than communism plain and simple.
We must sooner or later accept the fact that the well is dry. The wealthy, the poor, and what's left of the middle class cannot possibly cash the check the pandering politicians have written for the sole purpose of getting votes.
Now John, you and I are both veterans,were both "disabled" veterans, and as such you know that I would never want to see the veterans pulled up short. We both were volunteers, and we both were unfortunate in that we came home with service connected disabilities. I have however seen some veterans (a lot of "PTSD") types who get 100% disability when they are fully functional and that needs to stop.
Kerra, I fear you mistake passion for attacks, and nothing could be further from the truth. Your opposite opinion was the same as the one I put up in that there is no more money.
You have been a reader here long enough to know that I am passionate on certain subjects, and will continue to be in the future. My position is simple, I am anti socialist / progressive / communist and I will always be, so understanding that please continue to post but understand that if I disagree I will say so.
Tom Ford
Tom, "passionate" is the definitive word here for you.
I, at one time, had problems with your "passion" when it comes to politics, politicians, wars, Communism, the state of the State, Crestwood, et al. It took a long time for me to understand. I now "get" where you are coming from but it took awhile.
NOW, if we only had Presidential candidates who could siphon some of your "passion", we could finally have a great President to guide this Country again.
Sometimes, it may sound like you are in disagreement with different issues but basically, I think we all feel the same way about where our Country is headed. Kerra may not be as adamant in her views as you, and may mistake your's for negative energy, but in the end, we all want the same thing for the United States; we just express our views differently.
I am only afraid of one thing - which speaks volumes for me - I do not want this Country to end up being a Country comprised of "the very rich and very poor, with no middle class". If that happens, I will be in the class of the "have nots".
I am really tired of being treated like the middle child! And I want to see a President who will not and I mean NOT favor special interest groups, and look straight into the eyes of every middle class American and say, I will no longer neglect you.
I want someone who will not take our Constitution and interpret it as they wish. I want a President who will finally stop sticking their nose into wars we have no business being in. I am tired of opening the flood gates to people who abuse the system - rich, poor, and illegals plus those who know how to beat the system. I am tired of people who seem to get by with taking money from our pockets, and getting disability but are not disabled. They slide by, don't work when they really can, and go down to the casinos or the local bar and spend it all. We have too many gaps in the system. I want it permanently fixed! My friend's son who was permanently disabled in a car accident has waited 8 years to get disability. Reason being, he finally got a good judge who actually cared enough to read his file and that is no joke.
I want a watchdog,who will prosecutes any and all persons who dare to violate what is "on the books" - our Constitution. If we are going to try and get around what it says, it isn't worth the paper it is written on.
Further, I an sick of the criminal justice system listening to hotshot lawyers, and judges that don't "get tough" with repeat offenders.
That is a large request, but if we can put a man on the moon, why can't we take care of what is right in front of our face? Like the saying goes, it isn't "rocket science".
So anyhow,that's just my view.
I attacked you? If I did, please accept my apology.
You and I were on the same track, I thought in agreeing that all should pay some level of federal income tax.
My suggestion was to allow the near 50% of Americans who pay no federal income tax, to have some skin in the game. I don't care if it's a dollar a month, to start with at the lowest income levels. But only after all of the current non payers income tax comes in then we can see what the short fall is and do one of three things to address the difference.
1. cut spending
2. increase taxes on the over 50% of Americans who are paying all the tax now.
3. both 1 & 2.
The real debate starts with which selection you chose.
Mr. Trueblood, I am sorry if I snapped. I must have been feeling snarky. I hate the "only one opinion that counts" mentality. I just hate it. Please pardon me.
11:36 AM Blogger: Sandy, well that's a tall order if ever I saw one but worthy of all of our best efforts.
Only one problem though, I doubt I can get on the Ballot before the primaries are over! (just kidding, but wouldn't that give the liberals heartburn.)
Your right in saying we all want the same thing (at least I hope we do) for ourselves our children and our grandchildren, but alas how to get there?
I have grown up to be a passionate conservative who loves our Nation, our Constitution and the American spirit that has sered us so well in the past.
Unfortunately I sense danger to my Country out there as I watch the progressive / liberals working to undermine all the things I have spent a lifetime standing for. As you are well aware, I do voice my concerns, and will continue to do so to my last breath.
God Bless America!
Tom Ford
Some thoughts to ponder folks.
These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
Not by me, but true indeed!
Tom Ford
Hey Tom - I say "Amen"" to you and your ponderance. Love it, love it!
Keera,
It's all cool. What are your thoughts about the idea I proposed in my previous post?
P.S. please drop the Mr. Trueblood, less key strokes to just use Tim.
actually, I think before anyone decides who should be paying what, the tax laws need to be tossed out and rebuilt from the ground up. Then it can be decided as the system is rebuilt what loopholes will be available and who needs to pay less and why and all that. I agree that everyone should have a dog in the race, even it's a tiny amount. If illegal immigration is going to remain a problem, then there needs to be a way to tax them as well. Send out the dreaded tax collectors if need be, but too many people are getting out of supporting the country they live in, and it needs to be fixed. I just don't feel like it can be fixed until the laws are totally redone. Of course, there will be ugly political fighting, arguing and stalling of anything either side wants, so it's probably all just a dream anyway. Heaven forbid anyone would simply come together as citizens and not as Democrats or Republicans.
Kerra,
Great concept! Please run with the what you see the new tax codes would look like?
Good heavens, I have no idea. I'm no politician, believe me. I would like to see a system that more closely aligns with actual income and that doesn't have pages and pages and pages of loopholes and ways to get out of paying at all. But other than that, I would have no clue how to set up tax laws. Good gracious, you're asking the wrong person for that one!
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