"The more things change, the more they stay the same!" Or a report on the ways and means committee meeting this afternoon.
As I am sure you can tell form the tile of this thread, I attended the Ways and Means committee meeting at City Hall this afternoon.
Our new C/A Ms. Eastman was asked by the members of the committee to present them with the proposed cuts in the budget that CAN be made to bring us back into line with the disaster known as the "recession," she did not. No in fact she tried to defend every position in her department as well as others as being 'inviolate.'
Now I have never been a fan of Charles De Gaulle, but he did say one thing that is relative here, and that is, "The graveyards are full of indispensable people!"
I will not bore you with my comments as you can see them next week if your interested but suffice it to say that I disagreed. In fact I also disagreed with a lady who said "shame on you (the committee) for not proposing a tax increase!"
Crestwood does not need a tax increase, not at all, rather Crestwood needs to learn to live within it's means, and not come to US every other year for a hand out! Ms. Eastman the days of wine and roses are over, we have granted increases to every C/A since Lord knows when, and they have ALL been squandered, so forget it!
Ms. Eastman, you owe the taxpayers of Crestwood an explanation as to why you refuse to make the needed cuts in expenses, salaries, positions and whatever else is needed in order to fulfill the reason we hired you, that being to run an efficient City!
Tom Ford
NO. 993
Our new C/A Ms. Eastman was asked by the members of the committee to present them with the proposed cuts in the budget that CAN be made to bring us back into line with the disaster known as the "recession," she did not. No in fact she tried to defend every position in her department as well as others as being 'inviolate.'
Now I have never been a fan of Charles De Gaulle, but he did say one thing that is relative here, and that is, "The graveyards are full of indispensable people!"
I will not bore you with my comments as you can see them next week if your interested but suffice it to say that I disagreed. In fact I also disagreed with a lady who said "shame on you (the committee) for not proposing a tax increase!"
Crestwood does not need a tax increase, not at all, rather Crestwood needs to learn to live within it's means, and not come to US every other year for a hand out! Ms. Eastman the days of wine and roses are over, we have granted increases to every C/A since Lord knows when, and they have ALL been squandered, so forget it!
Ms. Eastman, you owe the taxpayers of Crestwood an explanation as to why you refuse to make the needed cuts in expenses, salaries, positions and whatever else is needed in order to fulfill the reason we hired you, that being to run an efficient City!
Tom Ford
NO. 993
posted by Crestwood Independent at 19:03
90 Comments:
Ms. Eastman and the members of the Ways and Means Committee need to remember that the C/A works for the Alderman and as such is accountable to them.
If they ask or request or order her to do something, she must treat that as if it were from her boss,,,because it is!
Read the Charter.
Tom:
What would you cut?
High Tim! Still waiting for you to tell everyone why you voted for Don Greer's $800/month auto allowance, his vacation/car/depreciation scam that the State Auditor questioned. Why you handed lawyer Chris Hessen $500,000 for a failed lawsuit that should have never been filed. Why you voted to spend $100,000 on architectural services for Greer's Police Palace when it was clear that the City could no longer afford it. And now you are taking credit for the Kohl’s TIF... that you voted against!
High John Foote.
High to you also Anonymous'
Here's the address to my website if you wish to interact with me, and remain anonymous, go there.
http://votetimward2.vpweb.com
Looking forward to hearing from you!
p.s.Anonymous.
Just to set the record straight I said at the candidate meeting that Tom Ford put together that I did vote against Kohl's TIF and that I was most likely wrong for having done so.
If you like to check the recording of that meeting proving me right and you wrong, let me know where to send the tape to, and it will be on its way.
If you're going to hide behind the skirts of being Anonymous, at least check my record, which is there for all to read, before you publish a lie.
Congrats on acknowledging you made a mistake with Kohl’s! That's a first step. The facts are the facts… you were TIGHT with Don Greer and Jim Robertson and rubber stamped some pretty damaging decisions that they made and it cost Crestwood greatly. How can we be sure you won’t make the same ones again? Who I am is irrelevant; I’m not running for office and you are.
4;38 PM Blogger: Don't you think you owe it to Mr. Trueblood to state your name? If your going to let accusations fly you need to give your real name or I will delete them as soon as I see them.
By the way that goes for ALL the candidates in the race so what are you going to do?
Tom Ford
10:42 AM Blogger: Well the first things would be to remove exorbitant salaries such as the inflated salary were paying the Public Works director.
In case you don't know it we are paying him $92,000.00 PLUS a take home car for a job he himself said was only worth $67,000.00 (and no car.) By the way that car cost us over $4500.00 last year alone, and the gas is going up as we speak.
Next we MUST place the animal control section under the County program (we are paying taxes on that now, and were only one of two Muni's to have animal control.) That will save another $50,000.00 when you add up the salary, the car, the benefits and so on.
Once these things have been done we MUST take a long look at the administrative department as we are long on secretaries, and other personnel there as well.
Fire, Police and essential Public Works personnel would be exempted as we are at minimum staffing levels in these sections now.
We well may need to cut the hours at the Pool and White cliff Park to stay under budget as costs are rising by the day, and something must be done soon.
Alas I fear that we have a City Administrator who is only interested in "tax an spend," and not doing the right thing to save Crestwood in the future, so unless that changes look for problems.
More may well be needed but the items I have listed above will at least get us through this fiscal year, and who knows, we may well be in better times next year and be able to re-hire once again.
Tom Ford
Who you are is relevant only if you live in Ward 2.
And you were the one who made the mistake stating I took credit for Kohl's, when I didn't. Which makes me and others, I am sure, question what else are you not telling the truth about in your posts? But then again, that's why you hide behind the skirts of remaining Anonymous.
But to more important current issues since my record in office is available to all who wish to go to City Hall and ask for it.
One of things I will do if elected is remind the C/A, as I did a former Mayor, that the BOA is the boss or supervisor of the C/A, per the Charter. To fail to do what is requested by an Alderman or the BOA is cause for removal from the job. And if I am elected and a C/A refuses to follow the instructions of the BOA or one of its members, then I will not violate my oath by not taking action against that C/A.
While I did not always agree with Tim when he was on the board, I do give him credit for being informed on the topics discussed at the BOA meetings, as it was clear to me he read the material provided to him in the packets the aldermen receive before a meeting.
I also agree with his decision on the Kohl's TIF. Anyone who's read the documents relating to that deal will see that the city was not given what was promised by the developer, and as a result, the decline of the Mall was accelerated.
As for the CA's recommendation to the Ways & Means (which, in fact, was not even requested), it is taken straight from the playbook used for the last tax increase proposal. That proposal was preceded by presentations held on two separate evenings, one for revenues and one for expenditures. The presentations were sold, in part, as a way to see where cuts could be made. Instead, they were used as a springboard for a tax increase proposal (and we know what happened with that).
Fast forward a few years, and instead of providing the list of ideas for cuts, the city administrator is using the review of expenditures as an opportunity to promote the continuation of Prop. S. Same play, different year.
Martha Duchild
I am not keen on firing people. I prefer to reduce through attrition. Plus, the salary figures you just gave, if they are correct, are only 75,000 per year. That isn't a drop in the bucket.
To the Feb 23rd 7:12 PM Poster:
So what amount of money is enough to merit elimination from the budget? When you pursue the line of thinking that the only items worth cutting are those that start at some pre-determined amount, it will inevitably lead to an incomplete examination of expenses, and allow for the continued inclusion of unecessary items in the budget.
Martha Duchild
well, there you go. "Unnecessary" is a relative term. If positions could be reduced through attrition, why not use that instead? Your unnecessary and my unnecessary might be 2 different things. But most can agree that attrition is the most painless way to reduce without throwing yet more people out of work.
Tom, I am concerned with most of what you have outlined as reductions, but most alarming is this statement:
"Once these things have been done we MUST take a long look at the administrative department as we are long on secretaries, and other personnel there as well."
I urge you to do what you have said and actually take a look at the Administrative Department, rather than speculate that it is "long on secretaries". To my knowledge the Administrative Department is as lean as it can be with A City Administrator, an Executive Assistant to the CA, An Assistant to the City Administrator, Finance Officer, An Accountant, and an Accounting Clerk. I suppose you are saying that the Executive Assistant and the Assistant to the City Administrator are similar if not duplicate? This is where I ask that you do your research; because I promise that you will find that could not be further from the truth. Although their titles have similar words, they provide 2 very different functions. The Assistant to the City Administrator serves as the staff liaison to the EDC (a vital committee to not only retain current businesses, but to recruit new ones). This position also is responsible for a majority of the Human Resource compliance procedures, obtaining grants to build a better community in both a functional and friendly way, and maintaining all Communication efforts that the City participates in. The position entails much more than I have outlined here, but I suggest you talk personally with the employees that you find dispensable, or at least make an effort to find out what it is they exactly do.
Hi Tom - I have read all of the aforementioned comments regarding the past and present budget issues and who/what to cut IN THE BUDGET.
I hope and trust that those who are on the Ways and Means Committee, as well as all others involved, need to keep in mind that personnel decisions need to coincide with what is on the books of the Civil Service Rules and Regulations.
Unless, there are other factors that I am not aware of, that take presidence, these guidelines are there to promote and unify equality in every city position.
Does the City utilize these rules when they hire, demote or remove someone from their job? I am asking because I would like to know and at the present time, I do not know.
Also, maybe Martha Duchild can tell me if everything in the Civil Service Manual and the rules are up to date. My reason being.....that if and when personnel cuts are made in this budget year, if it is not done according to the rules, "I smell lawsuit".
I am also aware of the fact that when Don Greer was City Administrator, "he made his own rules"; hired/fired and basically told me "he was the civil service rules and regulations". He hired people, and promoted people that paid him reverence and nobody told him to do otherwise. He drove an expensive car with a car allowance big enough to sustain a family of 4and spent more money than any other department head in the city. Was he chastised? No, he was gorified. Sorry, but I don't want that to happen again.
If this new CA hasn't been told - someone better tell her that what we need in this very important position of CA - is someone who will rekindle the firm and solvent rules we have always maintained for years in Crestwood. And it needs to be repeated ....that we have always been proud of Crestwood until someone decided that he wanted all the power and all the control and got his way. My Opinion sorry!
I do not and will not allow this to happen to anyone without voicing my strong opinion that things IN CRESTWOOD ARE DONE BY THE BOOK. AND I WILL PROTEST IF I SEE INJUSTICE DONE AGAIN TO ANYONE. PERIOD!
Everyone needs to be on the same page and everyone needs to know what they are doing before getting rid of anyone or lawsuits start coming into play.
I hope that when you analyse positions on who is cut or who is needed the most, that the Position Descriptions and info in the Civil Service Manual is used as a guide.
If you find after you research that some of these job positions and their descriptions are not in that manual, then the Civil Service Rules and Regulations
mean nothing, are a waste of time and Crestwood will suffer.
Thanks for your consideration.
12;27 PM Blogger; Daniel, I have in fact requested a manning table for the admin department and I will be making my recommendations to my Alderman after I review it.
Daniel the current state of the City coffers is poor to say the least. One way or the other we will be making the cuts, like it or not.
I agree with attrition, but when will that happen? I know of no one in admin that is of a age that they could retire soon. As far as a secretarial pool is concerned, we do have more that enough to do all the needed tasks at City hall.
The C/A has seen fit to remove one from the City Clerks office leaving that position open and we have not gone under as of today, so I guarantee you that were long on personnel elsewhere.
A rather funny thing about human nature is the constant that 'the work expands to fill the time, and the time needed to complete the work is relevant to the time the employee expects to quit for the evening.'
I believe that given the same, or expanded tasks a person will complete them in the eight hour assigned time frame, therefore we can cut at least two assistants/secretaries from admin and divide the work among the remainder.
True we may have to cut the 'kiosk' in the foyer out and let that person concentrate on the other duties, and we may have to have someone do double duty, but hey, welcome to the 'new norm.'
Daniel, I spent my youth in the Navy where we all knew that if needed a few would be sacrificed to save the ship and the remaining crew. That is now the unfortunate position we now find ourselves in here in Crestwood, and we must make some unwanted decisions, and soon.
This is not a heartless money grubbing major industry looking for a few extra points with the share holders by a long shot. What we are discussing here is the very survival of our City. I have lived here 43 years, and i do not wish to see her sink, so it's time to set condition zebra, choke down the expenditures,and insure we can make it until things get better (if they ever do!)
Tom Ford
The Assistant to the City Administrator serves as the staff liaison to the EDC (a vital committee to not only retain current businesses, but to recruit new ones)
Lets examine the success of this assistant and the EDC.
To date, the mall is going dark and business vacancies have increased another 10% since 2011.
My grade for performance is an F.
When you add to this the fact that Dan Tennesen, EDC COMMITTEE MEMBER and cadidate for ward 4 alderman, hosted a futurist at the last of only three meetings in 13 months you have to question the validity.
"hosted a futurist"...please clarify: what does that phrase mean?
While Ms. Eastman's Memo to the Ways and Cleans Committee clearly was structured to demonstrate a need for a tax increase, to her credit, she did spend the first part of the memo identifying various savings that could be realized through budgets cuts. It is up to the BOA to evaluate the first part of the memo and decide what cuts should be undertaken, and in what order.
can any one tell me how long Don Greer was Crestwoods C/A? from the sound of things it must have been a long time to have caused all the problems laid at his feet.
To 8:34 PM Feb. 24th
Ms. Eastman was asked to provide the Ways & Means committee with a list of cuts. She gave them OT for safety personnel (a non-starter), private gym membership for firefighters (the firefighters' MOU may preclude this cut), reduction of street maintenance supervisor to maintenance worker (this will happen anyway due to attrition), attrition of admin. employees (not a cut), and elimination of employee holiday party and city newsletter.
After reviewing the entire operation of the city, she essentially came up with the elimination of a newsletter and a holiday party.
Her memo focused instead on what couldn't be cut, and advocated for a continuation of Prop. S. This is not what the committee asked of her.
Martha Duchild
9:00 AM Blogger: Trust me, not that long as to be blamed for taking the Lindbergh baby. The man has past from our rolls, so I say let the departed rest in peace.
It's no secret that he and I crossed swords many a time while he was with us, but that changed when he departed this mortal coil.
Unfortunately we do still have those who for whatever reason will not let it go. They think that by bringing up his past ? they can gain some sort of redemption, why, I don't know.
Tom Ford
Tom Ford
8;23 PM Blogger: ""hosted a futurist"...please clarify: what does that phrase mean?"
What that means is Mr. Tennesen invited a friend who is what's known as a "futurist," that being a person who is supposed to look into the economic future of a community and forecast the business climate.
Nice idea, but I am not into what may be, but rather what is. I wonder just what he uses to look into the future as I want one for myself.
Tom Ford
Sandy,
To answer your question, it must first be recognized that Missouri is an "at-will" state. That said, the city does have an obligation to follow the rules set forth for classified employees in the civil service rules and regulations. If these rules are not followed, then the employee has a right to appeal to the civil service board. It is the job of the civil service board to ensure that the appropriate rules were followed in appeals of disciplinary action or termination.
Additionally, the city can cut jobs from the budget; however, it's important to understand the distinction between eliminating a classified position and terminating a classifed employee. If a position is eliminated, the civil service rules do not apply. If a classified employee is terminated, then the rules do apply.
The civil service rules can always benefit from a review from time to time to ensure that they are consistent with any updates regarding personnel matters. In addtion, as technology in the workplaces is updated, the rules should keep up with those advances.
I hope this helps answer your question.
Martha Duchild
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Martha, thanks for your information. You are always clear and concise and explain things so everyone can understand.
Tom - you stated something in one of your comment re: "bringing up the past" and how it is not necessary; at least that was how I interpreted it. Well if that is so then - maybe I should be excluded from your blog since I am no longer an employee and my 30 plus years may not mean much anymore. However, until you tell me so, I will respectfully put my two cents in until someone tells me to put a sock in my mouth.
Tom, I feel differently than you as I feel that unless you know all the mistakes that happened in the past, they can and will be repeated.!!!!
Don Greer wasn't the only fly in the ointment years ago but he was at the top of the heap. We have had many others but he had visions of grandure equal only to a King. He wasn't the first power monger but unless you watch - there will be others to follow.
What mistakes we have made in the past, should always be remembered or they WILL be repeated. Especially in personnel matters.
Those in power better know their limitations; those who made bad choices while in power, need to be reminded and remembered.
Those persons who governed the city in the past who made bad decisions based on the powers that be at that time need to be accountable for their actions on the board. And it should be remembered.
Tom - I have to say that you and I and others do not want to see us pay more taxes in Crestwood. Sounds good to me. But we all need to remember people in high places, who allowed chaos and previous reckless spending to occur. As far back as 2003, many board members approved spending lots of money especially to the notorious police chief. What was really upsetting was that Chief Kramer in the Fire Department had no problem managing his personnel and never got anything and asked for very little. Kramer wouldn't do that because he wasn't out for a conquest. Hats off to Chief Kramer, Karl Kestler and Mark Menning. They are the salt of the earth to me. That department is a well-oiled machine and spends within their means. I feel very safe in Crestwood and they are one reason why!
The money allocated to every department should not become exccessive - but it was and the board went right along with it. I, for one, won't forget it when I vote.
Further our previous full-time CA allowed it, pressured the finance person to find money in an already weak budget and all the principal players let it happen. No questions - the only one who ever seemed to do his homework was Alderman Miquel.
Thanks Tom for giving me time to say what I feel. I know we bump heads now and then, but I just feel I need to throw my info in the ring once in awhile. Aside from lumps and bruises along the way, I want what is best for Crestwood.
Thanks for your consideration.
1:08 PM Blogger: You knew the rules, you broke the rules and now you spent all that time for nothing as your history!
Us YOUR REAL NAME when you make snide accusations about anyone, or stay off this Blog, simple as that!
Tom Ford
I did not see any mention by Ms Petree concerning outsourcing Crestwood’s Police requirements to St. Louis County Police.
This would be a huge cost saving for the City of Crestwood. (Salaries administration costs … Insurance costs etc.)
How many of us care who writes us a ticket on Watson road? Crestwood isn’t exactly a ‘hot bed’ of crime.
Tough decisions will have to be made or taxes will have to be increased.
If that is not an option and sacred Cows are allowed to exist.. at least initiate Independent audits of each City department..An outside set of eyes is always is able to catch
things internal eyes do not.
8:31 AM, March 02, 2012
"...outsourcing Crestwood’s Police requirements to St. Louis County Police."
VERY BAD IDEA! Why change from a force that knows the city, and it's people, to one controlled from Clayton, and unfamiliar with us.
"This would be a huge cost saving for the City of Crestwood." Prove it!
"How many of us care who writes us a ticket on Watson road?" You get so many tickets on Watson, that you want police who don't know you?
"Crestwood isn’t exactly a ‘hot bed’ of crime." EXACTLY!
8:31 AM Blogger: I must agree with John in his assessment of a change to the Police Department.
Of ALL the things we should never do changing the Police to County is foremost on the list.
I have worked in an area where it took over 30 minutes for County to respond to a shooting call (our average response time is 2 minutes for any call.)
If you don't think response time is important consider what may happen in those 28 remaining minutes it took County to respond.
As for Watson Road, may I suggest you attempt to follow the traffic laws? I, like many others have Grand children on our streets and I really don't want tire marks on them just because someone is in a hurry for whatever reason!
As far as I am concerned Police, Fire and certain areas of Public Works are inviolate and must never be 'outsourced' to anyone. After all that's why we became a City in the first place, to have our own services, right?
If you want cuts I will be all to happy to give you a list, just ask.
Tom Ford
oddly you take all the rational,. intelligent arguments for keeping our own police and reverse it for animal control, which costs virtually nothing. Understands the city, has relationships built up, fast response time, etc. I find it interesting that these arguments only apply to your own priorities. I agree completely that we need our own police and fire, and that our city was founded to provide services for ourselves. This would, then, seem to include animal control. And don't use the "we pay taxes that support country animal control", because our taxes also support st louis county police, so that doesn't hold water. Your logic is fascinating to me.
County police bad idea.
Independent audits good idea.
Our administrator lacks the technical expertise to make technical decisions,and if she stumbled on a good idea given the present climate no one would believe her.
Internal audits miss savings and there's always a natural desire to protect your people.
External auditors always pay from themselves and do find cost savings.
If we are going to survive as a city we have to look long and hard at everything.
8:26 AM Blogger: Animal adoption clubs are a perk, not a necessity at all as we now pay County to perform he service.
Let's keep our eye on the ball here and not try to defend a duplicate service that is one of the "sacred cows" you mentioned.
By the way that cuts $45-50,000.00 from the budget and we still have animal control by County.
Tom Ford
precisely the logic I was referencing. With that logic, look how much we could cut by turning police over to the county! The savings would be fantastic! Your logic, not mine.
Sorry, Anonymous, but cutting Police or Fire is a big NO from this resident! I want "our own", policing our streets, and "our own" putting out fires, rescuing, or resusitating if someone has a heart attack, etc. etc.
Are we that bad off that we now are talking about taking people from Crestwood who have always watched over us and protected us and our homes? How long is the response time for a County Cop to get to my home in emergencies? How long to get a fire protection district person to save my home or give me CPR?
I am an "old-timer" but if you had seen all the "thank you" letters from grateful residents I placed into police and fire personnel jackets - you would read, first hand, how many lives they saved. No Sir, not in a thousand years will I ever agree to disband either department.
We have put a man on the moon and found millions of cures for diseases, so don't tell me there is no one in Crestwood Government that can find a way to cut the budget.
Extending the one tax as someone stated on this thread would be OK with me but to some (OMG) don't mention the word Tax. Some would rather cut police, fire, et al, and by doing so,firgure it is better to "cut off our nose to spite our face. To me it is ridiculous.
And Yes in order to keep what we have, I would agree to a tax increase (sorry) but when it comes to taxes, Crestwood, has one of the lowest. FURTHER - remember - Crestwood isn't the one who has been taxing us to death - it never has been. It's the school district and every other entity that has their hand out.
Leave our police and fire departments alone. Thank you for your consideration.
10:32 AM Blogger: Logic and personal experience tells me NOT A DIME, in fact it would cost the City money by the third year.
I have seen it in action in North County more than once my friend.
Also, logic tells me that you hope to pull me into a discussion on cuts. If so, fine with me, but give up the two cent subterfuge and just say what you mean.
Tom Ford
I have no desire whatever to cut police or fire. I think Crestwood's force is outstanding. And I said exactly what I meant. Your logic is flawed, or perhaps carefully applied to only what you want it applied to. I only pointed out that the very logic you use to defend having these services is then turned carefully in reverse to then justify the other cut. Logic should apply everywhere, to every situation. What's that you say? Police and fire is a top priority? I couldn't agree more. But I know a few recent incidents that say the same thing for animal control. So...you say cut it, and that's fine. I am merely stating that there are many who disagree with your assessment. You are more than entitled to your opinion. But that's all it is...an opinion, that many do not share.
2:03 PM Blogger: "Flawed logic?" I really doubt that my friend. Let's look into the logic of moving animal control to County where it belongs.
Total hours in a calendar year (non leap year) are 8760. Total hours minus vacation time for the animal control officer, 2000. This leaves 6760 hours where the Crestwood Police or County animal control have to respond to the animal control calls, right?
Now if you take the "logical" course to conclusion it should (and does) make perfect sense to move animal control to the County where we already pay for it.
When you review this in your mind please take ALL emotion out of it and look at it as a business decision, I believe then you will understand.
By the by, a Blog is supposed to generate different opinions. It has been said that if everyone agrees, someone is not paying attention, and I fully agree.
In any case you are always welcome here to express your opinion, but remember if you decide personal attacks are needed then sign your real name or I will delete your remarks.
Tom ford
I disagree. And I in no way attacked you. I feel your opinion is quite valid. I simply pointed out that so are other people's, that's all. And I still say, since we are taxed for it already, your logic states that we could save millions by giving police over to st louis county. No more upkeep on the station, no more cars to worry over, no more salaries, insurance, etc. We don't because it's a priority to have our own force. A priority I deeply agree with. I am merely saying, emotion does play into it, like it or not.
5:09 PM Blogger: Correct, you in no way attacked anyone, I made that comment as a reminder to all that if they do attack they must tell us their name.
Sorry but we will save nothing going to County as stated, in fact we will loose our valuables while County comes back into 'position' to respond.
Now as to emotions, we really need to remove ALL emotion from this (or any) equation so as to gain the proper prospective into what must be done.
This is not a happy time at all, but we must make the decision to save the City and not loose it because we wanted to save a few.
In the Navy we all knew that if you were trapped below decks and the ship was in danger of sinking the hatches would all be dogged down and you would become a casualty in order to save the ship.
Not at all a pretty thing to contemplate but it was very necessary to insure that the ship and the maximum amount of her crew survived to fight on.
While this is not anywhere near as dire as that analogy, it is still imperative that this City survives even if it means some of the crew must be furloughed to do it.
I would have hoped that this would not be needed, but we all know it will be, so let's do what is needed to insure that the good ship Crestwood is righted now, and in the future.
Tom Ford
Tom ,
all the more reason for an independent audit of all city departments...we are arranging the deck chairs and the
S.S. Crestwood is sinking fast....
6:17 PM Blogger: A true 'independent audit' should be done every so often, if for no other reason than to uncover errors that can be corrected.
I have no problem with that idea as long as the audit is completed by a firm that is truly independent from ALL Crestwood parties.
By the way, "WE" aren't doing anything (unfortunately neither are some the Board members,) to change this scenario now or in the future.
Alas, all we the great unwashed can do is go to meetings and become vocal enough that someone will hear our concerns and act in a positive way.
Tom Ford
Tom ,
For people who can't make the meetings the unwashed can be heard on the Crestwood official site.the meeting audio in its entirety is posted.
Tom,
Your argument against STLCO Police is incorrect. Please see the City of Fenton's budget for contract police services. See what they have saved; see how there has been no 3rd year suprise. I believe there was a .17% increase for 2012.
I am not only in favor of contracting services (see also the City of Colorado Springs, CO )but the entire incorporation of STLCO and St Louis City, resulting in one metro government. Having 90 odd municipalities makes no fiscal sense.
9:24 AM Blogger: Well my friend I have seen it in action in North County, and unless they are discriminating there, it is what it is.
Fenton is always the model brought up when people discuss this idea, but have you actually spoken to residents there as to how they feel about it, response time wise?
If you wish to check things for your self (recommended) then I suggest you look at average response time County V Muni. For the residents who are waiting for help, that tells the story every time.
90 some munis are a way of life in St. Louis County, and trust me, NONE of the Politicos will ever be willing to give up their fiefdom to change that fact.
Tom Ford
Dear Anonymous -
I say No to the policing of Crestwood by the County!
Crestwood is a safe city with low crime. However, if you read the paper and listen to the news, you should know that more and more crimes are taking place in the city, county, and everywhere.
No city can consider themselves exempt from crime, especially when many people are jobless. Some people are willing to take less paying jobs to keep afloat; while others would rather increase the crime rate. There are multiple reasons for it, but crime is getting worse every day.
Our jails are full and the only people getting rich are the lawyers. It may be cheaper for Crestwood to contract with the County, but there would be less police presence in Crestwood( my view), further, we would have police officer layoffs and County police would need to monitor more territory.
It may not make you feel any better to know that there are many cities right now, like Crestwood, who are struggling to get a balanced budget. However, are you willing to assist your city in these hard times by a tax increase???? I bet not!
The amount of money we pay to Crestwood for taxes is extremely low and has been for many, many years. Now that the City is in a financial crisis, it seems that there is nobody that is willing to pay a little more to keep what we have.
The city fathers shiver when you mention the words tax increase to them for fear of "OMG" not getting re-elected. But you and others are very vocal when it comes to giving up our police and/or fire departments. That's what I call cutting your nose off to spite your face!
The time has come for us to look at the breakdown on our tax receipts to see exactly how little we pay Crestwood. It's about time to wake up and smell the coffee.
The price of living has gone up for those who have their head in the clouds. We haven't had a good honest tax increase (not proposition this or that for X amount of years), but a normal tax increase. I am willing to go to a meeting at city hall, and as Ladue just did, show people in black and white, exactly what our tax rate is compared to other cities in St. Louis County.
I am very reluctant to post this, as I can already hear the negative feedback on this comment. Why? Because to mention "taxes" in Crestwood is like saying a bad word. Nobody wants to mention it yet people I speak with, who reside in Crestwood, say they would vote for one, to get our city back again.
11:03 AM Blogger: Sandy, I would join you in the dreaded tax increase language if and when our City Administrator Makes the needed cuts!
The Board has asked for them, I have asked to see something positive in needed reductions, but so far, nothing.
That said, I will be for an increase when, and if we first get the house in order, till then were just wasting our money.
Tom Ford
I was not aware the city is run according to what Mr. Ford requires. Now that I know that I will proceed accordingly.
When you have the Fox in charge of the Chicken coop....you never know were the money goes..
12:09 PM Blogger: Well now that you know I trust you will move in the correct direction.
Tom Ford
Hey Tom,I am happy to hear that you wouldn't be adverse to a tax increase. I just looked again at my tax breakdown, since I am doing my taxes for 2011. UGH! Looks like much of the big money we pay out is to the Lindbergh School District; however, if we intend on keeping up the value of our homes, we need to keep our school district in tact. I think that is a no brainer! But somehow or another, people think Crestwood is getting a "windfall - NOT!
And I also have no doubt that the cuts will be made Tom, but I just don't want the cuts to come from police or fire personnel. They do a job that is not for the "faint of heart" - you know?
I feel we are fortunate in Crestwood to have our own. The every day Joe or Jane's employment does not include walking into burning buildings, resusitating people that are sick, dying, bloody, on drugs or booze, etc. OR having to face a person who has a gun pointed at their face, or behind their backs!!!!!
But, we can't be dictating what to put in the new budget. That is up to the approval of the mayor and board. Once that is done, they should be able to convey the contents of it to the public. We have elected them and they were given an oath so they need to oversee the budgeting process and get it approved.
Tom it is not up to you or me. That approval has to come from the powers that be - to say yes, I approve this budget, or no, I don't approve. Cuts may be made Tom, but if they are not to your liking, or mine - should we then say NO to approve a tax increase?
The CA may see things her way, but unless the mayor and board agree with her, it goes nowhere.
Further, firing of the CA may be what you and others want but the mayor appointed her and apparently thinks very highly of her and has said it; so I do not know what to think. No matter who you get your information from, this issue seems to have been cultivated on this thread and has a life of its own.
In my view, it is a wait and see thing. There seems to be a communication breakdown somewhere but unless I hear something from the mayor or board, I just don't see why she should be in anybody's crosshairs.
Tom I have thought long and hard about what I have read regarding the CA's appointment, and I have heard nothing but negatives on this blog and it bothers me. It's like trying to convict someone on heresay and not much else. (just an opinion, so don't get angry)
Getting back to a tax increase - I hope we can show the mayor, board and residents with visual aids and specific details that it would be wise to do.
Sorry if I am overbearing - I just feel it is good to give my two cents on things. It's my right at least for now.
2:54 PM Blogger: Sandy, I have no intention to tell anyone what to cut, as you said that is up to the Board and the Ways and means committee.
I attended the last ways and means committee meeting, and said that I will vote for an increase, and promote it if and when we get back to fiscal responsibility (were far from there now.)
An old Missouri saw, "show me the money" is in full vogue here, and since no one can tell me were not 'overstocked' in some areas I await the proposed new budget with interest.
Fear not for Police and Fire as were at the bare minimum now, and they will remain the same as long as we continue to be a City.
DUPLICATE ROLLS are what must be looked at, and they know it, so we wait.
Tom Ford
Tom,
Again with the response time. Your argument is null; STLCO Officers will patrol the same districts as the Crestwood officers do right now. Same coverage: No, I would think better coverage because STLCO has the manpower to fully staff during vacation, sick time, etc. Additionally Crestwood would not tie up an officer going to Norf County for a prisoner pickup since STLCO has a prisoner convey unit.
The same mutual aid from Webster, Kirkwood, nothng changes.
4:25 PM - You are willing to dismantle our police force and send them on their way jobless, as well as our firefighter? Well you won't get a pat on the back from me. Nope!
I am sorry but I have been around for a long time. I have worked for Crestwood for over 30 years before I retired. I have seen us travel through the best and worst of times. But some things need to stay the way they are, and as long as I live here, I will be here to support them as they support us every day. You can quote me the reasons why you think it is a good idea; but I will never be comfortable loosing our Fire and Police. And you can take that to the bank!
4:25
Your reasoning is based on your relationship with the City of Crestwood, not on sound public administration, hence the rub.
I would guess that over 60% of the residence of Crestwood have never had an encounter with the police of fire, so a change would not be personal. I do not live in Crestwood because of the city government, it is because of the school district and affortable housing. Housing stock/pricing would not be affected by a change in public safety; again see the actual increase in housing costs in Fenton.
4:25 PM Blogger: I take it you have never lived through it, ergo your comments.
Doesn't matter though as the Police and Fire are 'inviolate' (as they should be) in Crestwood.
Now if you want to move a service from Crestwood to a place that already has the same exact service, how about animal control?
Tom Ford
I'm not sure why a city that has such little crime has Four... full time detectives...If I'm not mistaken.....there's less than 10,000 of us. anyone answer that? That's over 8000 man hours per year........!
5:32 PM, March 07, 2012
From what I can tell this is a very small sampling of residence on your blog; I suggest we put it to the voters and let the majority decide.
You guys are really running with this police and fire thingy. As far as I am concerned, go ahead and put it to a vote - bet it doesn't fly! But even if it does - I will be against it because I would rather put my hand in my pocket and pay more in taxes to keep what we have. But the powers that be can put it out there and see what happens. But it won't change my mind. I will never be for eliminating our police and fire personnel. To me that would be the most desperate position Crestwood could take and down the line we would all live to regret it.
animal control is less than 35000 per year. The poster was talking about millions saved with police. Not even in the same league. I know for a fact that the current animal control officer makes less than the retired one. The car is paid for many years ago, the insurance is surely a single small fraction of huge group plans for all the city cars, and the the vehicle would have to be insured no matter who drives it. It's a department of 1. How is cutting it going to help anything? I can't imagine in the millions of a city budget it would even be noticed. It's kind of a silly idea, if you ask me, which you didn't.
8:20 PM Blogger: I have an idea, why don't YOU get up in the next BOA meeting and make that recommendation?
Your right, this is a small sampling of Crestwood voters, but a sampling none the less.
If you propose this at a BOA meeting we will have another sampling, and then we shall have a better handle on who wants what.
Tom Ford
We are a Republic, our represenative should bring it before the board at our request.
Since both Ward 2 current, past and future members read and post here, they are aware.
To the person who said "probably 60% of residents have never had an encounter with the Crestwood Police". Don't put much into that logic! Would you like to be one in the 40%? In today's world, my friend, how can anybody put themselves into that 60% and know that tomorrow it could be entirely different. The world is changing and I am not willing to bet on my safety.
There are many cuts the city can make, if they so desire without cutting police and fire.
I think with county we would have more 'boots on the street'..than our present system of 'more boots in the desk'.
S Grave,
I think you missed the point. Your relationship with the police/fire is personal becasue of your past employment. Do you really think it matters that if and when you need the police or fire department that you know them personally? Isn't more important that the personnel responding is properly trained and possess the tools and experience needed to perform?
Training requirments are the same for Crestwood as they are for STLCO; that being said, STLCO officers bring a greater depth and breadth of experience because of the volume and complexity of crime that occurrs within the county.
(see FBI stats)comparied to Crestwood. Not to belabor the point; but if a violent crime is committed in Crestwood, STLCO is called to handle the situation. Again, because of experience and tools.
Back to your point. I am not advocating removing police protection (for that 40%)I am simply offering a better use of Crestwood's dollars. In addition I would cut: housing/code enforcement, animal control, privatize the pool and rec center and associated programs, park maintenance, sidwalk and street repair, thin down city administration personel to the size justified, discontinue city dollars that support Sappington House (let the foundation do it). Just a few items for consideration.
12:51 If you really knew me, as you seem to think you do, you would know that I am an old-timer and at the age of 70, let's face it, all the people I know from the police and fire - with the exception of a few - are either dead or retired.
My past employment with the city of crestwood has taught me to appreciate ALL PUBLIC SAFETY PEOPLE - that's what it has taught me. The fact that I want things to stay the way they are is simple - when you belong to a small community, things are different than when you are part of the City of St. Louis or the County, where you are nothing more than a number! I personally like the feeling that people in Crestwood or who work or worked for Crestwood care a little more than being part of a gazillion others who are nothing more than a name.
People in Crestwood who have been here for more than just six months get to know each other. You see each other at church or jogging or walking your dog. You get to know people in your ward and not just the person next door. And I like that very much and happen to think it's " kind of neat". I feel comfortable here and I like that too.
Further, I don't understand why I even have to say anything to defend myself - you seem to have all the answers about why I want to hold on to what we have. Trying to make your point - you did OK? But try to see my point too - OK?
You probably know more about everything than I do, and are probably much younger than I but this slightly odd but not dead yet lady, wants to keep what she already has. More importantly, just remember that outside of probably 6 people total in the police and fire departments, almost everybody I see in either a cop car or on a fire truck, first - I don't know from Adam, and secondly - they all look like babies to me. So be nice and let an old lady have her say!
Thanks for your consideration.
Bear in mind that the last time we fired a police officer it was a public relations nightmare..(admitidly he had four small children and it was the week before Christmas..)
That firing is still reverberating around the BOA meetings.
Can you imagine what would happen if we replaced the whole department?
7;14 AM blogger: Why would they propose that? YOU have to ask for it my friend, so show the courage of your convictions and get up there and do it.
Simple as that.
Tom Ford
10:35 PM Blogger: Animal control is more like $48 plus, not $35. You forgot to add in health care, gas costs, retirement benefits, car maintenance, and all the other goodies associated with it.
If you would like to see just how much, we can get the exact numbers via a FOIA form any time.
If were not willing to cut a "duplicate service" just what are we willing to cut?
Tom Ford
it doesn't seem to me that 'we' are cutting anything. Are you indicating that you are called in to help make these decisions? That's news to me, and I bet to every other Crestwood resident.
7:17 PM Blogger: Are you serious? At no time have I ever stated that I was called upon to help make any decisions, and I believe you know it!
The "we" is a very rhetorical "WE" and not the City and I, get it?
Tom Ford
We aren't going to to do anything of substance to repair the finances of the city from the point of view of meaningful cuts...
We aren't going to do anything to antagonise the electorate..
We will however do several things to justify our existance token cuts...etc.
We hope you understand.
I have tried to lift France out of the mud. But she will return to her errors and vomitings. I cannot prevent the French from being French.
Charles de Gaulle.
If the City is not willing to make meaningul cuts how about selling off assets? A contractor would have a hayday building houses in WhiteClif (sp)!
12:51 PM MARCH 8
I don't know who you are, but you have some very sensible ideas and argue your points well. Thanks for that post.
Martha Duchild
I believe that Whitecliff is off limits to developing based on the way it was given to the city. I might be mistaken, but I think that's right.
If a developer really wanted to have a "heyday", why wouldn't have one pursued the land Crestwood Court is on? Secondly do you have any idea what developing the park would do to the surround subdivisions property values? What a horrible idea! A civil war would erupt in Crestwood that ever happened.
4:32 PM March 9
Are you prepared to at least give the poster credit for coming up with ideas? I may or may not agree with all of them, but at least the poster is offering something to think about, and that's a start.
Martha Duchild
Martha, the point of my post was to discredit the suggestion of selling off Whitecliff Park to a developer, so no I certainly will not give credit as you suggested. Thankfully, Crestwood's problems will be none of my concern anymore. After the meth lab bust today on Fieldcrest the for sale sign will be going up soon in front of our house.
9:17 PM Blogger; And where do you plan to go where there is no crime?
Wouldn't you be better off staying and joining a neighborhood watch group to help prevent this and other crimes from happening?
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing!"
(Alex D.)
Tom Ford
Thank you St Louis County Police for finding this cancer in our neighborhood...!
Good work!
We are overlooking the bigger problem; rental property.
The higher percentage of rental and multi-family properties, the high the crime rate. (See NWU report on urban crime.
And thank you Ms. Duchild.
Having a Meth Lab in the neighborhood will do wonders for propety values.
This is not what we had in mind when we wanted new businesses to move into Crestwood
Given the 3rd degree and the grilling businesses get trying to come to Crestwood, meth labs are about the only thing left that would want to! I've seen to process for legitimate business and it is mind boggeling what they put them through. I would fina ANY other municipality once I got a look at that. Teh aldermen are some of Crestwood's own worst enemies.
Good news! An arts council is being formed..to bring business and people to crestwood.!!!
Wait a minute...didn't we just run all the artsy people out of the Mall? So they relocated somewere else ..and now we want them back?
12;37 PM Blogger: Hence the title of this thread, "The more things change, the more they stay the same."
By the way art is nice and a Boone to any community but it does not pay the freight, nor will it unless we can attract a Picasso type gallery, and what's the chances of that?
10:16 AM Blogger: Don't fret about businesses getting a look at the "hoops we put them through" as our so called economic development commission will never find one to show up in he first place!
Tom Ford
I wonder why is Kirkwood doing so well and Crestwood doing so badly? they are only seperated by a mile..or less.
So much for our new city administrator. Maybe we should change the charter and go for a stong Mayor form of government. Roy is gone so it might be safe to do it now.
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