Negoation, 101 as seen through the eyes of a skilled Botinist
Tuesday night brought us a very startling revelation, that being an elected official from Ward Four has "bowed" (seems someone else has done this before) to what must be only described as extreme pressure and "changed his mind" reference the "District at Crestwood" vote!
Now, Lord knows that I could never, ever hope to possess the astute, shrewd, and manipulating skills of the Gentlemen in question, but as a novice negotiator, I am very interested in what's in it for Crestwood to quit before we got to bat at least once?
Again, it's obvious that a member of the 'great unwashed" such as I could not possibly understand the inner workings of giving up the farm keys without a fight, so please enlighten me as to the following.
Why would a member of the Bond / TIF legal team be in attendance on Tuesday when he knew it was a no go? Why would a vote be changed last night when it's obvious that Crestwood, by that change has given up all chance of negotiating? Who said what to whom to make this strange occurrence happen?
Is it possible that the good citizens of Ward Four have made an error in judgement at the last election? It seems to me that what they, and we by extension needed was a skilled businessman negotiator, what they and we got was a world class weather vane.
All is not lost however, if a plant gets sick in Crestwood, we know just who to go to, don't we.
Tom Ford
NO. 1064
Now, Lord knows that I could never, ever hope to possess the astute, shrewd, and manipulating skills of the Gentlemen in question, but as a novice negotiator, I am very interested in what's in it for Crestwood to quit before we got to bat at least once?
Again, it's obvious that a member of the 'great unwashed" such as I could not possibly understand the inner workings of giving up the farm keys without a fight, so please enlighten me as to the following.
Why would a member of the Bond / TIF legal team be in attendance on Tuesday when he knew it was a no go? Why would a vote be changed last night when it's obvious that Crestwood, by that change has given up all chance of negotiating? Who said what to whom to make this strange occurrence happen?
Is it possible that the good citizens of Ward Four have made an error in judgement at the last election? It seems to me that what they, and we by extension needed was a skilled businessman negotiator, what they and we got was a world class weather vane.
All is not lost however, if a plant gets sick in Crestwood, we know just who to go to, don't we.
Tom Ford
NO. 1064
posted by Crestwood Independent at 17:38
35 Comments:
Three compelling reasons to stand our ground and give up nothing!
Best Buy warns on profit; U.S. unit head to leave
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/24/us-bestbuy-restructring-idUSBRE89N1KU20121024
MORGAN STANLEY: Here's The Chart That Shows Why Stocks Are Suddenly In A Bunch Of Trouble
http://www.businessinsider.com/morgan-stanley-we-expect-bad-news-2012-10
Chart Of The Day: 55 And Under? No Job For You
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-24/chart-day-55-and-under-no-job-you
Now in the face of this by experts (by the way,) do you think it's a good idea to do anything but sit on our hand?
(contributed by a financial expert who is a regular reader of this Blog.)
Tom Ford
Dan Tennessen is now obtaining an education that allows him to counsel others about life skills. Could not make it as a botanist, or insurance salesman or .....
If all he can do is give subsidies to business perhaps the citizens of Crestwood should recall Dan.
I have faith that mayor Schlink will veto the proposition if the board passes it.
We can only hope the other result would be a tie and no further action would be required.
Foote, are you listening? Do not plan on reelection next year.
7:59 poster: Really? Recall an alderman because you don't care for his stance and attack his education?? I am really suprised by that.
Why not just put this whole issue to a vote by the residents in April? Let a simple majority decide whether they think, we as a community, should allow this development to move forward and if TIF money should be approved.
11:00 AM Blogger: Excellent idea, would the Alderman who actually want this looser of an idea be willing to do that?
Probably not as it would cause them embarrassment when it flops like a bad cake.
It seems that THEY know what we want, and need and WE don't, else how do you explain this colossal flip flop?
One thing is for sure, a shopping area with a 10,425% tax rate won't sell pistols to prisoners around here!
Tom Ford
TOM:
RE: Current comments about the REDEVELOPMENT of
CRESTWOOD COURT:
WHOMEVER is making the rude remarks on your BLOG
without signing their name,
about the BOA MEETING of Oct. 09, apparently was
NOT there...I was...I also took notes...the recorded
record and the printed record, will show that it was
suggested that " the Board keep a dialogue open with
Centrum.."...of the 300 ( confirmed ) people who
attended the TOWNHALL MEETING, I did not see them
at the BOA MTG. either..but our Officials did listen
to those who did turnout at the TOWNHALL MTG.
It is TIME for the Business Communities to take some
of the blame for OVERBUILDING...EVERYWHERE...we can
shop at only so many stores and we did survive years
ago with half or less of these strip malls than we now
have...been on Gravois lately ?...driving east..or on
Manchester in Rock Hill..empty stores..it is NOT
" just us "...
it IS the " on-line buying " that is not taxed
but soon may be, that has caused a lot of the
empty stores..
I was at the BOA MEETING also. What you do not understand is that the board rejected the proposal, was specific about five points of dissatisfaction, and left the door open for a revised proposal at any time. Why the plastering?
I agree with 9:42 AM 10/26
The door was left open with Centrum, as I understand it - for a revised proposal at any time.
If Centrum is really interested in giving "Crestwood a go" in the revitilization of the Plaza, they will come back with something else that is more comprehensive and better for our city.
If I were to bid on a house and the owner doesn't accept my bid,I am still allowed to come back with another offer. The City did not shut Centrum down and we didn't close the door on Centrum.
Approving this proposal without totally seeing the big picture is like an act of desperation by grabbing it as if it were a life line. Sure, we are all sick and tired of seeing the plaza empty. But we still cannot OK it knowing full well that there are issues we may suffer down the line because we acted hastily.
I am just saying.....
9:42 AM Blogger: "Why the plastering?" Sorry but you lost me, what's "plastering?
Tom Ford
I mean postering. I failed to check the spelling before posting. I apologize for any confusion.
Sandy hit the nail on the head.
The fact that the BOA rejected Centrum's proposal does not preclude Centrum from coming back to the BOA with another proposal. Centrum has heard the issues that board members had with their initial proposal, and if Centrum has any interest in obtaining the necessary votes, they will seriously consider the objections expressed and approach the BOA with a revised proposal that addresses the concerns that led to the "No" votes. This is the next step in the process.
I think Mr. Tennessen failed to understand that this is a process, and to approve the first proposal would have been a capitulation. The BOA's rejection was an opening move in the negotiation process.
Crestwood has had enough experience with developers that the BOA, if they've learned anything, should know that operating on the assumption that rejecting an initial proposal kills the deal is a rookie mistake.
Martha Duchild
Ms. Duchild, you make an excellent point. I fear you are assuming a great deal, however, with your statement of how much the board has learned collectively. I do not have your confidence, given some of the members of the board.
PLEASE NOTE: This is an adder to the "anonymous" 6:00 AM, 10/26/12 Post, per the request of the poster.
"HI TOM: Inasmuch as I opened with
an objection of " Anonymous " comments,
my name, Jacqueline Stock, should be
included, at the end of my Comment !
I expect to see it added...
( without any explanation ! )
As explained this afternoon, I went to CITY HALL today
& obtained a copy of the Minutes of Oct. 09th....
THANKS for your good intentions to this matter..!"
Hey Anonymous 10:03 PM 10/26/12 - come on in "the water's fine". If you continue to not sign your name, that is an indication you are not at all confident in your views. You may get a slap on the hand as to what you say as some may think you views are wrong, but you have nothing to loose.
Since anonymous states he/she doesn't have any confidence in some board members - can be rectified! He/She can always run for office and put the aldermen's feet to the fire. We are the "show me" State - so run for office - and show some board members how to be better - by your example on the Dais! Make a difference.
I can see that the torch is passing down to some of our young citizens - who live in Crestwood which makes me happy!! Hopefully they will love Crestwood as I do, and participate in keeping it one of the greatest places to raise kids!!!!
Tim Trueblood
Good Post Sandy G.. There is an Alderman election in every Ward in the the April 2013 election. Come in, we would love to see your face along with your ideas!
Hurricane Sandy is just another example of those evil rich Republicans suppressing Democratic voters. Blame Bush
actually, it's just another failure of the Obama administration. If he were an effective president, he'd have flown to where the hurricane was forming and neutralized it. Vote him out..he can't control hurricanes.
OK, for now (and God forbid the future) we have a problem that had better be solved, or else!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/28/us-usa-economy-cliff-idUSBRE89R0EL20121028
That's right folks, were on the extreme edge of a fiscal cliff, and if not stopped, were going to fall, and fall hard!
Still think giving away the farm is a good idea Mr. Tenneson and staunch supporters? (all three of you.)
Tom Ford
10:15 PM and5:36 AM Bloggers: I know your "working the room" here, but this storm named Sandy is a very dangerous storm and as such will cause death and destruction.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/10/28/the-national-weather-service-statement-sandy-a-very-dangerous-storm/
May I please ask that we all channel our "Sandy" thoughts into prayers for our fellow Americans in it's path?
Thank you for your kind understanding.
Tom Ford
I would hope that everyone would not make light of this storm. This sounds very serious.
Further, I hope and pray that this blog -albeit a place to give one's views - does not end up a political forum for the two opposing Presidential candidates. If so, there will be no room for anything else. Also - I would hope we have all - by now - had enough campaigning and know who they will be voting for!
If people need any more time to make up their minds, maybe for them it is already too late.
I think we should concentrate on Crestwood or else I am outta here!
I am just saying.......
12:37 PM Blogger: Well Sandy a Guy named Plato, or Aristotle, or Socrates once said, "Just because you don't take an interest in politics, dosen't mean politics won't take an interest in you."
However we will not be talking National Politics as soon as the "Regime" is voted out, so it won't be long.
We have plenty of room for Crestwood, just look at the thread you posted on. In fact how do you come down on the "District at Crestwood 40 million dollar debacle that some in town think we can't survive without?
Tom Ford
For my Democrat friends, just saying:
Jefferson County, Colo. Democrats have revoked 66-year-old Estelle Carson’s 2012 “Democrat of the Year” award, following her conviction on Thursday for stealing from a 71-year-old woman who suffers from both partial blindness and cerebral palsy.
Carson was found guilty of felony identity theft and felony theft from an at-risk person for stealing checks from the woman to pay for cable, cellphone and Internet bills.
The elderly victim, who is confined to a wheelchair, has a fixed income of $596 per month.
The Jefferson County Democratic Party announced in late 2011 that it planned to honor Carson at a gala in January 2012 for her Democratic activism and efforts. Three days before the Jan. 8 dinner, critics warned the Democratic Party officials of an ongoing criminal investigation into Carson’s activities.
Chris Kennedy, chairman of the Jefferson County Democratic Party, disregarded the warning.
“After much consideration, my decision was that the award being presented by my organization and the alleged financial exploitation need to be compartmentalized, one having no bearing on the other. Thus I decided to present the award to Estelle,” Kennedy wrote in an email following the event.
Carson is due in court this December. If sentenced, she faces a maximum of nine years in prison
Blame Bush, its Wall Streets fault, eat the rich!
pardon my obtuse-ness, but what does a single woman in Colorado have to do with Bush and Wall Street? That's a heck of a stretch. I can't even find a connection between the two, except for a local Democratic chairman?? What does that story teach us, prey tell? Can't wait for the moral of this one.
Bush and Wall Street
And what laws were broken by the alleged dynamic duo of Bush and Wall Street?
"If I were to bid on a house and the owner doesn't accept my bid,I am still allowed to come back with another offer. The City did not shut Centrum down and we didn't close the door on Centrum.
Approving this proposal without totally seeing the big picture is like an act of desperation by grabbing it as if it were a life line. Sure, we are all sick and tired of seeing the plaza empty. But we still cannot OK it knowing full well that there are issues we may suffer down the line because we acted hastily."
Excellent post Sandy Grave!
-Jim Murphy (jr)
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog/2012/10/crestview-plaza-up-for-sale-listed.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2012-10-29
Crestview Plaza up for sale, listed at $3.5 million
St. Louis Business Journal by Evan Binns, Reporter
Now’s the time to go shopping for a retail center in Crestwood.
Crestview Plaza, an 80,372-square-foot center anchored by an Aldi discount grocery store at 9282 Watson Road, is on the sale block for $3.5 million.
Matt Bukhshtaber and Brett Chetek of CBRE in St. Louis are marketing the property, which has an occupancy rate of 75 percent and 25,000 square feet of vacant space, according to Chetek.
The property is being sold by Equity Investment Group Inc. (EIG) of Fort Wayne, Ind.
“Aldi just renewed their lease for another 10 years, and the property is across from Crestwood Court, which is going through the TIF (tax increment financing) review process. Both will add significant value to Crestview,” Chetek said.
n June, Centrum Partners, the Chicago-based developer that owns the nearly vacant Crestwood Court mall, unveiled plans to turn the mall into a multipurpose center with a “public square” partially ringed by shops and restaurants. Centrum said the redevelopment is about a $100 million project, besides any TIF.
Locally, Bukhshtaber and Chetek have been on a roll recently. The team also represented UrbanStreet Group of Chicago and North American Properties, which is based in Cincinnati, in a $16.5 million deal to buy the Roberts brothers’ buildings downtown, including the unfinished Roberts Tower, an acquisition that closed earlier this week. The pair also worked on the sale of Union Station to Bob O’Loughlin’s Lodging Hospitality Management.
10:33 poster: again, what does that have to do with your original story? I have no idea how many laws were broken by them, but my guess is several.
10:33 PM Blogger: If you remember the fact that when one party controlled the House and Senate we had the Dodd / Frank fiasco (Fanny Mae, Freddie mac) that caused the housing market to collapse.
Bush tried to stop it, the one party stonewalled him, obama was elected and here we are!
Bush is not to blame for everything, democrats have more than their share of blame in this as well.
Don't believe me? Please loo it up.
Tom Ford
I'm with Sandy - let's get back to the issue at hand. Tom's thread is about an alderman asking to reconsider his vote on Centrum's proposal for the mall.
Centrum's ability to move forward with their proposal has (rightly) been questioned, and Angelo Gordon & Sons' strategy for properties such as this would suggest that they have no interest in keeping this property long-term.
If Centrum was willing to take a bath on the sale of one of their properties in Chicago (bought for around $320 million and sold for $140 million), and just lost a suit by Bank of Americal this past May, and has a $266 million loan payment due in March of 2013, how can they possibly claim that they are able to develop the mall? What bank will loan them money?
One would have to willfully ignore Centrum's financial history to approve this deal. As Mr. Murphy said, the city is not so desperate that it needs to make foolish decisions on one of the most important properties in Crestwood.
Martha Duchild
9:42 AM Blogger: Martha has nailed it as usual. Why Mr. Tenneson would you believe they can, and for that matter will do better here?
I know your neighbors are giving you a fit over your original vote, but good Lord man, please stand up for yourself, and Crestwood on this!
Tom Ford
Stay tuned this coming week for some very interesting revelations reference who was (and is) for the change of heart, and who is not.
More when the chickens come home to roost next week.
Tom Ford
Is a new meeting scheduled. No BOA meeting for two more weeks. Please enlighten us. Thanks.
7;27 PM Blogger: No meeting reference the so called "work shop" to my knowledge.
I see no need in rushing this forward as all it will do is provide "billable hours" for the gaggle of attorneys fooling with this travesty.
Tom Ford
Workshop scheduled for 6:00 on Thursday. Topic?
Centrum mall proposal. Wonder who will start the conversation and how much the legal bengals and advisors will make on Thursday?
from Alderman Tim Trueblood reference the work sessions.
Subject: Work Sessions
Date: Nov 6, 2012 7:51 AM
On Nov 7th the work session will be for the 2013 budget
The work session for the mall plans will be on Nov 8th.
Both will be open to the public, both will start at 6:00 p.m.
Please share with others in Ward Two who might have an interest in these sessions.
Tim
Trueblood
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