Board Of Alderman meeting at 7:00 PM Tuesday, 11/13/12
Ladies and Gentlemen, I wanted to put the agenda up here for all to see but the City Web site seems to have a glitch as I cant get in to copy it. I will call tomorrow and see what the problem is, but until then, pleas3e plan to attend as it may be well worth the time.
Until tomorrow when we have the agenda for the meeting, I remain,
Respectfully,
The agenda as sent by Ms. Flowers. Please note that it's a server problem and NOT part of our sysrem that has us in limbo.
CITY OF CRESTWOOD
BOARD OF ALDERMEN MEETING
IN BOARD OF ALDERMEN CHAMBERS
ONE DETJEN DRIVE
CRESTWOOD, MISSOURI 63126
Tuesday, November 13, 2012
7:00 P.M. REGULAR MEETING
1. Call to Order - Pledge of Allegiance
2. Roll Call: Duncan Deutschmann Duchild Tennessen
Wallach Trueblood Miguel Foote
3. Approval of Minutes
October 23, 2012 Regular Meeting
4. Public Hearings
5. Reports, Presentations, Communications and Appointments
Proclamation for Old Newsboys Day 2013
Resolution Honoring Crestwood Citizens for Active Involvement in Government
- Char Braun, Jerry Bratsch, Jerry Thomas
6. Public Comment - Persons wishing to address the Board of Aldermen on issues that
are not on the agenda should do so at this time. Persons wishing to address the Board
on issues that are on the agenda will be given opportunity as subjects are discussed.
Because of time constraints, you may be asked to limit the time of your comments.
7. Zoning Board Report
8. City Administrator’s Report and Associated Bills
Approval of the Purchase of New Fire Truck
An Ordinance Approving and Authorizing the Purchase of a Pumper and Fire
Apparatus from Smeal Fire Apparatus Company in the Total Sum of Five
Hundred Eleven Thousand Three Hundred Fifteen Dollars ($511,315.00) and
Authorizing the Mayor and City Clerk to Execute all Necessary Documents in
Connection with Said Purchase.
Revision of Municipal Code for No Smoking
An Ordinance Repealing Sections 16-57 and 16-58 of the Crestwood Municipal
Code in their Entirety and Enacting a New Section 16-57 to be Known as the
Indoor Clean Air Code.
Approval of ADA Grievance Procedures
Discussion of Financial Advisor Services for Crestwood Court Redevelopment
9. Perfection of Bills
10. Introduction of Other Bills
11. Reports from Mayor, Board Members & City Attorney
12. Introduction of Future Issues
13. Old Business
Selection of Developer for Crestwood Court Redevelopment
14. New Business
15. Adjournment
Posted: Friday, November 09, 2012 at 4:00 p.m.
ANYONE WITH SPECIAL NEEDS WISHING TO ATTEND, PLEASE PHONE 729-4700 SO THAT THE CITY MAY MAKE
APPROPRIATE ACCOMMODATIONS FOR YOU.
Note: Due to ongoing City business, all meeting agendas should be considered tentative.
Tom Ford
NO. 1069
Until tomorrow when we have the agenda for the meeting, I remain,
Respectfully,
The agenda as sent by Ms. Flowers. Please note that it's a server problem and NOT part of our sysrem that has us in limbo.
CITY OF CRESTWOOD
BOARD OF ALDERMEN MEETING
IN BOARD OF ALDERMEN CHAMBERS
ONE DETJEN DRIVE
CRESTWOOD, MISSOURI 63126
Tuesday, November 13, 2012
7:00 P.M. REGULAR MEETING
1. Call to Order - Pledge of Allegiance
2. Roll Call: Duncan Deutschmann Duchild Tennessen
Wallach Trueblood Miguel Foote
3. Approval of Minutes
October 23, 2012 Regular Meeting
4. Public Hearings
5. Reports, Presentations, Communications and Appointments
Proclamation for Old Newsboys Day 2013
Resolution Honoring Crestwood Citizens for Active Involvement in Government
- Char Braun, Jerry Bratsch, Jerry Thomas
6. Public Comment - Persons wishing to address the Board of Aldermen on issues that
are not on the agenda should do so at this time. Persons wishing to address the Board
on issues that are on the agenda will be given opportunity as subjects are discussed.
Because of time constraints, you may be asked to limit the time of your comments.
7. Zoning Board Report
8. City Administrator’s Report and Associated Bills
Approval of the Purchase of New Fire Truck
An Ordinance Approving and Authorizing the Purchase of a Pumper and Fire
Apparatus from Smeal Fire Apparatus Company in the Total Sum of Five
Hundred Eleven Thousand Three Hundred Fifteen Dollars ($511,315.00) and
Authorizing the Mayor and City Clerk to Execute all Necessary Documents in
Connection with Said Purchase.
Revision of Municipal Code for No Smoking
An Ordinance Repealing Sections 16-57 and 16-58 of the Crestwood Municipal
Code in their Entirety and Enacting a New Section 16-57 to be Known as the
Indoor Clean Air Code.
Approval of ADA Grievance Procedures
Discussion of Financial Advisor Services for Crestwood Court Redevelopment
9. Perfection of Bills
10. Introduction of Other Bills
11. Reports from Mayor, Board Members & City Attorney
12. Introduction of Future Issues
13. Old Business
Selection of Developer for Crestwood Court Redevelopment
14. New Business
15. Adjournment
Posted: Friday, November 09, 2012 at 4:00 p.m.
ANYONE WITH SPECIAL NEEDS WISHING TO ATTEND, PLEASE PHONE 729-4700 SO THAT THE CITY MAY MAKE
APPROPRIATE ACCOMMODATIONS FOR YOU.
Note: Due to ongoing City business, all meeting agendas should be considered tentative.
Tom Ford
NO. 1069
posted by Crestwood Independent at 15:56
21 Comments:
The website has been down since Thursday of last week.
When working it has to be one of the slowest sites on the web. As far as the meeting, Tom, can you shed some light on why this meeting may be more important that others? Will there be a vote regarding the mall?
9:06 AM Blogger: I have no information that tells me anything other than the usual will take place tonight.
I said that because it would be nice to actually get a few folks to attend the meetings. After all, a wise man once said, "You get the Government you deserve."
This is Crestwood, we deserve the best and brightest, so how about attending to see if we indeed have that, or are we lacking somewhere.
Tom Ford
Look's like the BOA will be officially reconsidering selecting a developer for the mall. Hope they get on with this. Just saw on Channel 5 that the old Northwest Plaza up north just broke ground for new $100,000,0000+ project for a Menard’s and a bunch of other stuff while we are still looking at a complete eyesore.
Wasn't Centrum the only developer to respond to the RFP? I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly...that a yes vote to reconsider that selection will be a rejection of Centrum's proposal and essentially put us back to square one with the mall?
4:15 PM Blogger: They were in fact the ONLY one to address the RFP. However have you looked into the debt load of Centrum?
Just Google Centrum Properties, Chicago, and the same for West Florida and you will see that have little chance of obtaining the funding to get this done.
Also, be aware that the TIF is just enough to level the buildings, clean up the property, and then PAY THEMSELVES back ti 17 Million they bought this elephant in the room for.
Once that is done, what is to stop them from selling it ground and leaving us with nothing?
Tom Ford
FYI to investors.............
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49802535
Still think they will be able to "fund this?"
Tom Ford
Tom, you don't understand how TIF works. They can't pay themselves back until they build something that generates $$$. Selecting Centrum gives them nothing but the right to go to the TIF Commission for review. Then the Board of Aldermen votes on the TIF Commission recommendation and negotiates a Redevelopment Agreement. After that, Centrum builds the project using their own $$ and submits for TIF Notes which are IOU’s from the Project for public improvements. (They can’t get TIF for building new buildings …. Only demolishing the old ones, property assemblage, sewers, utilities etc.) Once the project is built and generating revenue Centrum can request the City go to private market for TIF Bonds. Investors by the TIF Bonds and then Centrum is able to cash in their TIF Notes for actual $ for eligible project costs. If they build it and it doesn’t generate enough $$$ Centrum is out the $$. The City, School District etc. provide no existing revenue and take no financial risk.
5:526 PM Blogger: I completely understand how a TIF works, Look at Fenton with the 44 Million dollar5 TIF to Chrysler, where are they now?
I you trust every developer that comes down the pike, I have a bridge to nowhere for you. Oh wait, we already built one didn't we!
Tom Ford
Tom could you please clarify what $44 million TIF between Fenton and Chrysler your speaking of, I just checked the MO State Auditor's website and saw nothing on record past or present about Fenton and a $44 million TIF to Chrysler.
Tom:
Fenton never gave Chrysler a TIF. Chrysler got tax abatement from St. Louis County and Quality Jobs from the State of Missouri. TIF and tax abatement are as different as night and day. If we are going to have community discussion on the use of TIF for the Mall project then it must be based on facts and not misinformation.
1:35 and 2:13 PM Bloggers: Your both right on, Fenton was only a part of it (as was all of St. Louis County.) Their part was simply that Chrysler was there, the County boys did the rest.
That said however, just how much are WE in Crestwood willing to give up to a developer who is obviously so over extended that a loan without a "political subdivision" funded program is extremely unlikely?
The games are just beginning with this fiasco, so since the reincarnation of Neville Chamberlain (you know, a mall in our time) has given his blessing to the negotiations, let's see when the first bomb will fall.
Tom Ford
Tom:
We are not "...giving up" ANYTHING that we currently have. Centrum must build the project and then they are entitiled to a half of the sales tax revenue from the NEW development to pay for demolition etc. Crestwood gets half as do the the other taxing jurisidictions. All fo the property tax increase goes into the pot. Half of somthing is better than all of nothing!
12:14PM Blogger: Well if your comfortable with a tax rate of over 10% to shop I guess that's OK. I however am not, so what say we give them 16 Million in a TIF (the amount they said would be needed for demolition) and then let them build from there.
Try that and watch the fur fly because they want the other 17 Million to pay themselves back, and they will howl like a mad dog if they don't get it!
I am surprised that your so easily taken in by this "idea" of theirs, why is that?
Tom Ford
Centrum must build the project and then they are entitiled to a half of the sales tax revenue from the NEW development to pay for demolition etc.
Support your use of the word "entitled" in our statement.
Tim Trueblood
To 12:14 PM Nov. 15th
Half of something is better than nothing? Who thinks that's a good deal?
You're assuming that:
1. Centrum won't flip the property once TIF is granted.
2. Centrum will obtain financing to develop the project.
3. Centrum (who can't attract tenants to another of their developments in Ellisville even after having received a CID) has the ability to attract tenants to the Crestwood development.
4. The outparcels will give up their properties to Centrum (either through the city's use of eminent domain or through a greatly inflated price tag, which will naturally be added to any TIF granted).
5. The environmental remediation that needs to be performed at the old Dillard's site can be completed without adding to the demolition costs.
6. The development itself is wildly successful (Centrum's request for public assistance amounts to 30-40% if the total project costs) and can be paid off in 23 yeara.
7. The development provides a predictable enough revenue stream shortly after it's completed so that the city can issue bonds for the project.
8. The amount of debt the city assumes once it issues the bonds will not bankrupt the city should the development fail to produce the necessary revenues.
9. The developer will make improvements to the property and increase its value. To receive a TIF, the property needs to be blighted, thereby rendering it just about worthless. What happens if no development takes place? The city is left with a blighted piece of property (producing no property tax revenue) and no development.
10. Crestwood and the county can come to an agreement regarding the composition of the TIF commission.
11. All of the steps involved in the process occur in a timely manner (establishing the TIF commission, acquisition of the outpacels, demolition, environmental remediation, construction, etc.) so that the prospective tenancts don't walk away from the project due to time delays.
These are all huge hurdles to overcome, so yes, the city can lose. It can be left with a blighted piece of property and no development, it can be left with municipal bond debt and no incremental revenue to pay it off, and it can be left with a development that doesn't produce enough income to offset the public assistance granted to build it.
Martha Duchild
Lets add to the list.
Property value is zero after blighting. Property tax currently supplied to the city and school district dissappears.
Neither the city or the school district can tolerate the loss.
They will now request additional residential property increases to race the commercial property tax lost.
The taxpayers experience an increased burden three times
10%. Or more sales tax to participate in the whatever business occupies the area.
Increase in the residential property tax from the school district
Increase in the residential property tax from the city.
Does not sound like a just burden to me.
What do you think?
Martha, Tom, and Anonymous,
If Centrum were not seeking a TIF and CID, would you still be opposed to the proposed development of the District at Crestwood? If so, what type of redevelopment, if any, would YOU like to see happen?
2:13 PM Blogger: Well speaking for old Tom here, I am not opposed to whatever the owners want to build ON THEIR PROPERTY assuming it's in good taste, not vulgar, nor adult oriented book stores.
Please remember that the Centrum folks OWN this tract of land, we don't ergo it's really up to them to do the "design build" and bring it to the City for approval.
My problem is not with the what, but the how. You see Centrum is extended to the max as it is now with vacant properties that are not producing anything but headaches for them now, why add another?
IF they see fit to develop this minus a TIF, and the blighting they will surly want, I am fully in agreement with those who want to see the place developed. This of course WILL NOT HAPPEN!
Centrum has no one (that I know of) willing at this time to even sign a "prospectus lease agreement" (non binding) saying that they will POSSIBLY agree to open at the new location IF it's built, that bothers me a great deal, as it should you.
And then there is the sky high tax rate...........
Tom Ford
"District at Crestwoos articles moved to it's own thread.
Tom Ford
I would not be opposed. As you should be able to understand I am against tax payers being forced to pay to produce profit for business.
We fought a revolution several hundred years ago to eliminate this sort of tyranny.
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