EX Alderman hands out fliers for a "prayer vigil" tonignt near the Plaza to "move forward" I guess.
Folks, it has come to my attention that one of our EX Alderman was seen handing out a flier after church last Sunday that said there would be a "prater vigil" on the night of the BOA meeting.
Interesting in that the last time I checked the Bible clearly stated that the worship of false idols was not only outside the wishes of God, but it was not to be done!
Now, however the Centrum cheerleaders have decided that they, the all knowing should test that by apparently praying for the Board to come to THEIR way of thinking and give Saul the farm keys.
I don't know about you but I am going to give that space (wherever it is, and attending group) a wide berth as the last thing I need is a lightning strike on my pain wracked body. Things a bad enough the way they are.
Back to the false idol thing, I wonder if praying for a structure as well as the opportunity to give away O.P.M.( other peoples money) is in fact crossing the line? In my religion (Missouri Synod Lutheran) as I understand it, and where I attended several years of school, it certainly seems so, hence the area detour.
You tell me, is this a possible sin against the teachings of the Bible, or is it just a foolish publicity stunt?
Tom Ford
NO. 2016
posted by Crestwood Independent at 08:42
48 Comments:
The flier I saw was more along the lines of "pray for the Aldermen to reach a compromise".
I'm also no biblical scholar, but I don't think praying for compromise runs afoul of any lesson I've been taught at church.
As for usefulness of such a maneuver? Who knows? I would think redevelopment in Crestwood is probably pretty low on God's priority list, but it just might take an act of the divine to make something happen at this point :)
I think we should be praying that the Alderman put the people ahead of the of Corp profits of Centrum!
which former alderman was passing out these flyers?
Pickel for one, you know the who who quit after 6 years of failing to get Centrum to come to the table as a Alderman.
Anonymous Carol Casey said...
Since the idea of "Build It and They will Come" and/or "Crestwood is Going to Hell in a Handbasket" has been less than persuasive, many of our residents and some of our fairly elected officials are to be even further scolded tonight with a March on City Hall. From what I gather, this March had some divine intervention in its planning. Apparently "Taking Its Due Course" is just not impressive enough. Apparently "Rome was built in a day."
4:09 PM, July 23, 2013
Delete
4:09 PM Blogger: Carol, yes we have the failed leadership of the four elder statesmen in on this media ploy.
My question to these marvelous leaders is, WHY IN HELL DID THEY NOT FILE FOR RE=ELECTION ?
I failed to see any of their names associated with success when it came to the Centrum project, so why did they not try to stay and "mover Crestwood forward ?"
Media ploy to attempt to force the sitting Board to do what they want ? You bet it was, but the real question is what's in it for them ?
All I see so far are four aging wannabe developers with everything but an origional idea's!
Tom Ford
Tom, you and I are still in opposite universes on national politics, but with regard to Crestwood and Centrum, we agree 1000%. Here's a post I made on Fox about this story...
These protesters in NO WAY represent the MAJORITY of Crestwood's citizens.
Yes, the issue IS we don't want to give away TIF subsidies of $22-$35 MILLION. The developer is stubbornly refusing to do ANYTHING with this property WITHOUT the taxpayer welfare handout, so we citizens are just saying NO.
If this goofy proposal Centrum has made was viable and potentially profitable at all, they'd be doing it without taxpayer handouts. But they want the handout, and the project seems to have as much potential as a used car lot.
These people out there protesting think we should just hand millions over to some wealthy developer to do ANYTHING, which is hypocritical of them because most of these people are conservative Tea Party-types who whine about giving a dime of welfare to "lazy people who won't work" (while these same people sit at home on their taxpayer-paid pensions as former school teachers, firefighters, police, etc. - LOT of them in Crestwood ridin' the gravy train).
So while these people whine the loudest, they don't represent the majority - just like Tea Party Republicans! They just represent the minority of sadly misguided fools who thinks every time a rich man has his hand out, handing over millions in welfare will be a "good investment", while being against "socialism". What a phony crock of it these people are!
Centrum can sell it off - probably best use. If they don't, the city should take it FROM them using eminent domain. Now THAT'S the REAL purpose of TIF and eminent domain - to prevent blight caused by irresponsible property owners.
I watched the news coverage and they didn't show anyone praying.
8:09 AM Blogger: Well they said they were going to, so.........
Could it be that it was a silent prayer asking for divine intervention to get across Sappington Road alive?
Tom Ford
6:52 AM Blogger: Gee whiz Batman, maybe you can get some of your socialist buddies to revamp Detroit ?
Nah, won't fly because they were the ones who bankrupted it in the first place!
Next.................
Tom Ford
6:52 AM Blogger: Explain this please.
http://www.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/two-americans-added-food-stamp-rolls-every-job-administration
Tom Ford
@6:52 a.m.
A great deal of your post was misguided, but to focus on just one issue, you suggest Crestwood using eminent domain to seize the mall property. While it could potentially be done, the property is appraised at 11 million. That exceeds Crestwood's entire annual budget and cash reserve level. How do you propose Crestwood pay Centrum for seizing the property? Finance it and pay interest on the 11 million? Not wise. Also, then it is on Crestwood to find a buyer for the property. Finally, if Crestwood became the owner of the property through eminent domain, no property tax whatsoever would be generated by the property while Crestwood owned it and was looking for a buyer.
The only reason Crestwood would use eminent domain would be if another buyer came out of the shadows and preferred to deal with Crestwood rather than Centrum directly. I cannot imagine there is another developer out there willing to partner with Crestwood to rehab a dying mall when Crestwood has shown its hostility to tax incentives for that purpose. Eminent domain for the mall is a pipe dream.
@9:58:
So Batman is a socialist? How do you know?
Copied this from the Patch, is the post of the type of people who really lead Crestwood?
Impeach Mayor S July 23, 2013 at 06:05 pm
Its’ an utter shame the mayor has NO LEADERSHIP ability and is more concerned with saving face than admitting he knows NOTHING about development nor the TIF process. If he was doing the job he was elected to do he would have pushed the board to move CENTRUMs request to allow the professionals to determine the feasibility of the project, and that feasibility study would have been done on CENTRUMs dime. As last time I checked the mayor managed stocks (feel sorry for anyone whose money he does manage), NOT developed $100M retail projects. If the professionals conclude the project is NOT feasible than END of story. To me that sounds like a win-win for the City, its constituents, and CENTRUM. Makes you wonder what the mayors intentions really are, maybe he is in another developers pocket book, either way this needs to be investigated and called to task.
The citizens NEED to REMOVE SCHLINK from office ASAP, and while they are at it get rid of Duchild and Trueblood, whom are the DUMBEST individuals I have ever heard speak; shocked how they were ever elected into office. Like the old saying goes “cant fix dumb”. Where has Duchilds “butch” wife been lately, with her Michael Moore research. IMPEACH SCHLINK!!!!!!!!!!!
It is my hope that it is not.
Nope but it the type of people who favor Centrum's Profits over people!
First of all Centrum was made an illegal promise when they bought the Mall by the Crestwood City Officials who were meeting with them to encourage them to buy the Mall from Westfield. That promise was a 100% support from the City of Crestwood for a TIF for Centrum. Read the editoral of the Call dated 7/25/13 for more facts on the illegal promise. Centrum then sat on the Mall for 6 years despite pleas from citizens, the mayor and Alderman for news of a redevelopment. Centrum did not once appeared for 6 years before any group of citizens. One year after the former mayor lost his election and seat, and when had our current mayor in place for a year, Centrum showed up with a plan they said they had been showing other developers at a Developer Show in Las Vegas. They couldn't get anyone to join with them on their plan there so they brought the plan to Crestwood in June of 2012. Crestwood hired, on their own nickel, PGAV to give them their professional view of the plan. Then the BOA issued RFP's for other development proposal of the Mall, knowing it was doubtful that there would be any other but Centrum submitting a proposal. As expected Centrum was the only one to submit a proposal (not a plan, which had only been some drawings). PGAV as employed by the City reviewed the proposal and made a presentation of same. I would suggest if you want the full results of the presentation you go to City Hall and ask to listen to the audio tapes of it. Why, PGAV verbal said they had some concerns with the proposals chance of success and the amount of tax payer assistance it would need. "If after Centrum spends $34 million dollars in tax assistance and all Crestwood has is a level field, they should consider that a home run"! Since Centrum was the only respondent to the RFP for development, Centrum asked the City to issue a RFP for a consultant, that would be paid for by Centrum with the tax dollars they received. This consultant would help guide the City through the TIF process. And that is where is gets interesting!! The majority of the BOA anytime polled were never more than 50% in favor of giving tax dollars to Centrum for their proposal. If you think about it, PGAV had already given the City it's professional opinion about Centrum's proposal. Not sure of it's success rate. Due to less than the 100% support of TIF Mayor Robinson (?) had promised Centrum, the proposal has been pulled by Centrum, not over the failure to hire a consultant, but the Boards not supporting the TIF that had been promised 5/6 years ago by "Public Officials". So you can claim that 23 years is not a long time for the City and School District to wait before getting 100% of their sales tax dollars. Don't forget, Centrum said for the record they had the money to go ahead without a TIF but wouldn't because it reduced their return from 10% to 5%. Their investors would not stand for a 50% reduction in profit, but Centrum expected that the Citizens of Crestwood and Lindbergh School district to take a TWENTY THREE YEAR 50% cut of sales tax! The supporters of Centrum need to realize they are putting the profits of a Big Out of Town Corporation ahead of the people who live here. That help with the facts? Want to cross check them? Go to Crestwood City Hall and ask the City clerk for the audio tapes of the meetings where Centrum has spoke. It's there for you. And if you want to find out if Lindbergh really was ok with the TIF that Mr. Barket of Centrum has claimed, contact Mr. Simpson of the School District and ask him. Might open your eyes to the "facts" you have been told about this proposal.
6:54 PM Blogger: WELL, THAT SHOWS YOU WHAT SORT OF NAMEJESS, FACELESS COWARDS ARE BACKING THIS ILL CONCIEVED PROJECT !
To attack a sitting Alderman or Mayor is one thing (it goes with the office,) but to attack the wife or family of one is over the top!
What we have here is a devout coward who will not give his name, but is so "brave" as to make derogatory comment's about a woman who in no way deserves it.
This type of fool is one reason (and there are many more) why good people do not become public servants, after all, why have your wife and family insulted ?
Note to the round mound of sound that is so cowardly as to not sign his post,
Come and debate ME in an open forum. Show us all just how "brave" you really are, or would the truth and the light of day be more that you could stand?
Tom Ford
That was a great last post there, Tom. Tell it like it is.
Yes, I'm the one who is 180 degrees on the other side of the political fence normally, but on this issue, you are RIGHT ON!
I'm just not sure why there are so many people who are anxious to throw $25 or more MILLION in tax welfare at Centrum just to get a bowling alley/restaurant complex (heck, we could BUILD one somewhere else for less than that!), but I don't understand them and they don't make sense. The Mayor is CORRECT to hold off spending any more of OUR money on Centrum's profits.
If Centrum's investors aren't happy with their 5% return from the business, then it is NOT FEASIBLE! We capitalists all know that! If their profits are coming out of the pocketbooks of Lindebergh and Crestwood taxpayers, then shame on them and they should go elsewhere - we don't want their hands in our pocketbooks here.
You go, Tom! Tell it like it is!
9:44 AM BLOGGER: It is what it is, so why give this "hero" a pass ?
Tom Ford
Let the whole project go down the drain - who cares - let the dang mall rot!
When our revenues get really exceptionally bad and this mall issue doesn't go through, you all better shut up when our property taxes go up. And they will go up because we are not in great shape as it is. We have always had the lowest property tax for years and spoiled we were with sales tax. Someone comes in and wants to do something with the derelict property once a thriving mall; and what do we do - well according to you all - we want what we want - and we would rather see the property torn down than try to get along with the owners. Duchild and the mayor will always be joined at the hip and Ms. Duchild is directing the band. All the mayor has to do is bang the gavel and use his power to break a tie so this little game can go on forever while our revenues are in the toilet. OK Fine! Further, Ald. Duchild does whatever the Mrs. says. So I say to heck with the whole deal. We voted these idiots in and now we are stuck. just remember what you did to the Mall when you start bitching about your property taxes going up. But I am getting ashamed of telling people where I live as it has been the laughing stock of everyone who comes down Hwy. 66. No skin off my nose, but it is really a shame that we allow these people to run our city - it is a real dang shame!
9:45 PM Blogger: "but it is really a shame that we allow these people to run our city,"
In case you failed to remember, they were elected! "These people" are doing the right thing for Crestwood, unless YOU want to give up the farm keys for nothing!
A TIF is good for 23 years, an up scale bowling all will fade in much less time than that so I believe we must hold on until Centrum has a real proposal that will stand the test of time!
That is unless you have something to gain by doing it now, and what could that be?
Tom Ford
Oh No we don't have anything to gain - we can let the Mall Rot. and it is rotting and going to hell. Time marches on and we have wasted it. Time is money but mox nix to me. I am not going to argue about it because you would argue about it until the cows come home. Letting the mall rot is so much better to you. Yeah these aldermen were elected. You think electing them was a good thing and I don't. Big Mistake. Crestwood will either fold or your property taxes will go up. Either way we lose and Crestwood loses too but we all will gain nothing except higher property taxes and a dismantling of what was once a great city.
If the cows come home, where would it be? Where exactly is home?
Did you ever wonder what cured ham had?
once again, I will say this, though I have been ignored a few times before;
The Centrum guy said he would give away the property to non-profits and churches. That means they will be able to with their portions as they see fit. There will BE no revenue if this happens. Churches and non-profits are tax exempt. This is a BAD IDEA. The aldermen need to prevent this from happening, somehow, some way.
5:13 PM Blogger: No, they would still have to get the OK from the BOA before they could do anything (C.U.P.)
Centrum says a lot of things, but when it comes time to explain where the deed went to the bank, well it's not going to happen.
The Chicago guy reminds me of an old Texas saying, "All hat and no cows."
Tom Ford
the "Chicago guy" was born and raised here in St. Louis, as I understand it. What is your issue with Chicago?? I am having a hard time finding things you AREN'T biased against. Keeping up with all the things you hate must be an exhausting full time job.
12:58 pm Glad I am not the only one who notices it. Doesn't seem possible that someone could know so much about everything that he can always pass judgements to the negative - sounds like a know-it- all to me.
It's just an easy habit to fall into. Anything he dislikes or fears, he calls "liberal" to demonize it. I has to be more out of habit than actual opinion; no one on earth could hate that many things and not be in an institution somewhere, heavily medicated.
12:53=7:12-11;06 Bloggers:
If You don't like MY BLOG, I will gladly delete you so you can find somewhere else to write! Failing that, start your own!
Now do you want to stay or go, I couldn't care less!
Tom Ford
LIBERALS at play ?
http://nationalreview.com/corner/354801/e-mails-suggest-collusion-between-fec-irs-target-conservative-groups-eliana-johnson
Darn sure it's not Conservatives !
Tom Ford
No it wasn't conservatives. But it was when "liberal" groups were targeted during the Bush Admin. Everything comes full circle, and there's nothing new under the sun. Everyone screams and cries over the newest thing, but it's all been done before, and before, no one cared.
12:22 PM Blogger: The term "liberal (or progressive) is just that, a term signifying the left in the Country.
I am a conservative (the right wing if you will,) and I am not ashamed to say it. Why is it so terrible to use "liberal" as an identifier for those who believe in "something for no work ?"
Why are "liberal / progressive's" so ashamed of what they are to the point of personal attacks ?
Tom Ford
"Liberal" means "something for no work" to you, honestly?? That's really all it means? Wow. Okay. I understand more now. Thank you.
well, for me personally, I can't abide conservatism, because I cannot follow a political agenda that bases its belief system on religion. I don't believe religion has any place in governing. And no, we are NOT established as a Christian nation, which is always the first thing conservatives say when I say that.
7:24 - something for no work - so liberals always want something for nothing? Well my grandfather was a "ditch digger" and my mother worked in a hot factory for 40 years and took home about 40.00 a week and my dad was a house painter for 50 years and made 60 dollars a week. Remember folks, it gets hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. My Mother walked to work cause we only had one old car which my dad used.
We never asked for anything and by God nothing was given to us either. They did not own a home until they scrimped and saved for years and finally after years of living in three rooms above my grandma's house, when I was 16 years old, mom and dad got a house or small bungalow. I wanted a sewing machine when I was 15 years old and my dad sold his fishing boat to get me one. Something for no work you say? Sorry but that does not apply to two immigrant people who struggled political oppression to come to America with no education and grew up getting nothing for anybody; plus two parents that never went to high school and worked hard all of their lives to get what little they had. So Ford, anonymous and whoever the heck the rest of you are, I frankly don't a xoxo what you say about either political party because I try to vote for the person I think would be the best president and did not vote Democrat this time. So you don't know everything Ford; you just think you do and all the rest of you goof balls who think with what you sit on instead of your brains, if you have any. I am sick and tired of everybody always separating people by political parties. Thing is, my dad and all of my uncles were in the war, Imo Jima, WW1, or the U.S. Navy. So, talk to people who know people who have had it dang hard in this country and didn't ask Uncle Sam for one dang dime. "something for no work" who in the heck do you think you are?????? Bet you don't allow this one on your blog.
10:59 AM Blogger: trip over the cat did you ?
Yes. something for NO WORK. don't like it, change it, it was a creation of the liberal wing to begin with .
Tom Ford
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
6:21 PM Blogger: Only nice language, remember ?
Tom Ford
"Yes, something for NO WORK!"
Example: Look who is paying the bill for those who will not work in Ohio!
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/ohio-premiums-rates-going-up-95067.html?hp=l5
Notice, I did not say, "can not work, but rather Will not work!
Tom Ford
well, let me tap into your vast expertise in the area of dealing with the unemployed and ask this: how do you know who will not work and who cannot work? I did not ask how do "they" know, I asked how do YOU know. You're the one who seems to have all the answers, and the one who sits in judgment on those who are not working, so I'd like to know your process.
9:49 am 8/2 Love to hear Tom answer that!
Listen to yourselves ranting and raving. Does everything in this city which envokes an opinion have to sink to this level? Liberals, conservatives, character assasinations, religion. How about we just choose sides and install a giant dart board up there and sell tickets?
No suggestions as to how and what is a more viable solution to the Mall's future. It is all black and white and no room for compromise. So when you speak up, solid ground beats a soapbox. What is wrong with responsible reasoning? Can we get there co-existing with the owner of the Mall and one another and quit the darned scolding? It is what it is and it is OUR TOWN. Let's deal with it, soundly.
Carol,
I agree that there have been a lot of unhelpful comments/remarks regarding this issue and I, too wish they would stop.
All that aside, I think people should not lose sight of the fact that for the most part, on most issues placed before them, the board is usually in agreement. So from that perspective, we do have a board that is mostly cooperative and comes to consensus.
Centrum's proposal and the requested TIF for the mall property is the only issue that has truly left the board evenly divided. The reason that neither side is willing to compromise is because each side believes that harm would come to the city if they did not stand by their positions. This is not inaction, nor is it obstruction. It is an impasse, and the board members should not be criticized if they are sticking by their positions, because they are doing what they think is best for the city.
Centrum is the only party that can bridge the divide by offering something other than what they have proposed thus far. Up to this point, they have not done so.Mr. Barket won't lower the requested TIF, he won't change the concept, and he won't give the city permission to have the state do a free environmental inspection of the site (unless the city approves a planner). If any headway is to be made, it is up to the developer to see what he can do to address the concerns of those who do not support his concept or public subsidy request.
Martha Duchild
I wonder, and this is completely out there, but I have not heard this addressed. The board members are elected to represent the interests of the residents. I have many neighbors who cannot get to board meeting because they are simply too elderly. What are the board members doing to ensure they actually ARE representing what the residents want? I can certainly state that no one has asked me. Maybe the board members need to make an effort to get around to homes in their wards and actually ask people what they think and want. How can they say they are representing the residents if they don't know what their ward residents think?
How about calling your aldermen to let them know how you feel? I understand that your elderly neighbors might not make it to the meetings, but they probably have access to a phone. Contact information for the aldermen is on the city website and on the back of the city newsletter.
Martha Duchild
9:49 AM Blogger: Well for one thing I ran a business for years, I saw first hand the so called "workers" who would not show up on time, or ever. I have had "workers" tell me that when they lost their job they would file for disability !
I saw (and interviewed) some of the "workers" who filed for unemployment so often that they were on a first name basis at the social security office.
I have spoken to some Vietnam Vet's that I know file for PTSD disability (100%) who are no more stressed than you or I.
Then there is the nightly news report's that tell us that for every one job created two people go on disability or welfare, that's how I know !
Your turn to lay out your sob story, but be very careful to follow the rules here, or save your manicure.
Tom Ford
@12:28:
Yes, calling is certainly an option. It would be encouraging if any of the aldermen attempted to find this information out simply because they wished to know it. The only time they show up is when they are running for re-election. Other than those times, silence.
2:20 PM Blogger: Well they can always post here as well.
I have told most all of them that they can have a thread started with their comments, word for word if they wish, so.
Tom Ford
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