Local resident (Ms. Carol Wagner) opines that the reputation of Crestwood is "dwindling!"
http://www.southcountytimes.com/letters-21165.114137-The-Reputation-Of-Crestwood-Is-Dwindling.html
Yes indeed, the poor down trodden community that I have called home for over 44 years is falling apart according to Ms. Wagner. Why you say? Well it seems that if the property known as the Crestwood Courts is not developed very soon were going to have nothing, and "everywhere I go" people will ask me, "what's wrong with Crestwood!"
It has also been opined that our BOA is not doing the right thing, as only four of them are cheer leaders for Centrum, and the other four only want the best from Centrum. Now there is a lot more (such as the prostitution ring) in the letter to the editor shown above that you can read and decide for yourself, however..............
I as usual have a few remarks that I would like to make to start the thread going if you will. I am wondering how "everyone" knows that a person is fro Crestwood? Is there a sign were supposed to be wearing to identify our town? If so, I need to apply, as I missed that part of the message.
What about the site that was bought at a fire sale by Centrum? It would be very nice if it were in fact developed, but why does it take 34 Million dollars from US and the schools (remember them, if not, see below) to do it? And in case you missed it, we now have food stores and a bowling ally in place, so why another one?
Centrum at last glance has NOT ONE person signed to a prospectus list to come if they build it, so how are we supposed to excited about this so called development? Is it possible that the 34 Million would be used to pay themselves back and abate the EPA issues the place has? You bet it is, and no amount of whitewash can change that!
Ms. Wagner also asks why anyone would want to come to Crestwood to open a business? Well the fact is that Crestwood is an excellent place to run a retail shop as we have loyal (we do, don't we) resident's who will shop Crestwood first, and if the shop carries what we want, bingo!
In closing please allow me to say that the four Alderman who have done their home work have held Centrum to a higher standard. They are looking out for US, and contrary to what Ms. Wagner opines, they are representing their constituent's far better than the SB-4 (Starbuck's four) who have chosen to meet off site to further their agenda!
Tom Ford
NO. 2015
Yes indeed, the poor down trodden community that I have called home for over 44 years is falling apart according to Ms. Wagner. Why you say? Well it seems that if the property known as the Crestwood Courts is not developed very soon were going to have nothing, and "everywhere I go" people will ask me, "what's wrong with Crestwood!"
It has also been opined that our BOA is not doing the right thing, as only four of them are cheer leaders for Centrum, and the other four only want the best from Centrum. Now there is a lot more (such as the prostitution ring) in the letter to the editor shown above that you can read and decide for yourself, however..............
I as usual have a few remarks that I would like to make to start the thread going if you will. I am wondering how "everyone" knows that a person is fro Crestwood? Is there a sign were supposed to be wearing to identify our town? If so, I need to apply, as I missed that part of the message.
What about the site that was bought at a fire sale by Centrum? It would be very nice if it were in fact developed, but why does it take 34 Million dollars from US and the schools (remember them, if not, see below) to do it? And in case you missed it, we now have food stores and a bowling ally in place, so why another one?
Centrum at last glance has NOT ONE person signed to a prospectus list to come if they build it, so how are we supposed to excited about this so called development? Is it possible that the 34 Million would be used to pay themselves back and abate the EPA issues the place has? You bet it is, and no amount of whitewash can change that!
Ms. Wagner also asks why anyone would want to come to Crestwood to open a business? Well the fact is that Crestwood is an excellent place to run a retail shop as we have loyal (we do, don't we) resident's who will shop Crestwood first, and if the shop carries what we want, bingo!
In closing please allow me to say that the four Alderman who have done their home work have held Centrum to a higher standard. They are looking out for US, and contrary to what Ms. Wagner opines, they are representing their constituent's far better than the SB-4 (Starbuck's four) who have chosen to meet off site to further their agenda!
Tom Ford
NO. 2015
posted by Crestwood Independent at 10:44
36 Comments:
Carol states Crestwood is a failing city. I guess she does not trust the wisdom of the masses. Perhaps she and her husband should move to another location deemed as not failing. What do you think?
Tom,
I suggest you ask for the latest revenue report from the City Administrator. Guess what, City revenues are going up WITHOUT the Centrum development! How can that be?
I agree with you, the current offer from Centrum is not the best for Crestwood. Like one of the Alderman said at meeting of 7/6/13, Crestwood needs to increase it's population in order to retain and gain more of it's sales tax dollars from the County Pool, it needs new housing as that provides a source of increase property and utility tax without any increase of tax rates on current residents. What better place for a new subdivision that the one currently located by the Courts of Crestwood or what ever they call themselves this month.
12:02 PM Blogger: "Tom,
I suggest you ask for the latest revenue report from the City Administrator. Guess what, City revenues are going up WITHOUT the Centrum development! How can that be?"
Exactly my friend, so much for the 'tumbleweed effect' envisioned by the Centrum cheer leaders, no?
Ms. Wagner's letter contains some very interesting items, now if only there were facts to back them up!
New residences would work for sure. "Up scale" specialty stores will flop in the first five years (if they last that long,) but who cares, the cheer leaders will be happy and Centrum will be long gone by then.
Brother Saul has "the elephant in the living room," not us, so let the pot stew while the interest payment is biting him in the ......
Tom Ford
Amen to that Tom. No more tax subsidies. Let business stand on its own and as happened in the past. Profit is earned not subsidized.
I will allow that if you had a nice green grassy field where the mall once stood, you could build a nice upscale subdivision, and you could turn a nice profit on such a venture.
HOWEVER, there is no way to build a subdivision on the mall site when you start with the premise of having to spend 15 million+ to knock down the existing structures, and prepare the site properly for a subdivision. The profit margins on new homes just don't allow for such a thing.
Now if the point you are making is to use TIF to pay for the demolition still even if a subdivision were to be built instead of retail, that is a different story. However, I don't think the anti-TIF zealots on the BOA will approve any proposal involving TIF.
1:14 AM Blogger: Now your catching on my friend.
17 Million to pay themselves back, 15 million to "remove" the structure, and 2 Million to put up a sign.
Right after the sign goes up, Centrum goes!
"Anti TIF zealots?" No such thing, just smarter Alderman looking out for Crestwood and US, that's all.
Tom Ford
Wonder If Ms Wagner will be walking the streets with the other blind Centrum supporters?
Centrum purchased the property and received the remaining revenue. The property and buildings are part of the deal. If they did discount the buying price appropriately, too bad. The next sale of the property will be discounted appropriately and then the rehabilitation can begin. Let the market work.
At the last BOA meeting Centrum's Mr. Barket called those who opposed his request for a TIF "right wingers."
This address will take you to the left wing supporters of a TIF for Centrum an outline their plans to make a show of some sort at the next Alderman meeting on 7/23/13.
facebook.com/pages/Lets-GROW-Crestwood/398336440285845?ref=stream&hc_location=timeline
Once there you will find out one of Centrum's supporters is an organization named
Metropolitan Congregations United (MCU). Their address is
facebook.com/pages/Metropolitan-Congregations-United/332152582118
If you support such blunt left wing actions in Crestwood, be sure to show up and support them. If you are not in support of MCU and their stated goals, please attend the next meeting and stand with the Aldermen who are opposed to giving tax dollars to Centrum.
@3:47
What if the "market" result is that no one thinks its worth knocking down an old mall because it is cost-prohibitive without assistance?
There seems to be an awful lot of willingness to engage in "cutting off the nose to spite the face" when it comes to this project. Everyone is so-concerned that the Centrum crew is going to make out like bandits no matter how this plays out that they are unwilling to play ball. The highest profit to Centrum comes from a successful development, and that is the best result for Crestwood as well. If the development is successful for Crestwood, who cares that the developer makes a decent profit along the way?
It seems some would rather punish Centrum for likely overpaying for the mall, and have the City and Centrum both lose out. Aldermen should be looking for win-win solutions, not lose-lose solutions.
But then again, some aldermen have openly stated they don't want the project to be too successful, so who knows what is going through their heads...
@4:21
Usually opposition to TIF comes from the far left-wing and the far right-wing. Those with common sense in the middle, or the near-left or near-right see the pragmatism of using TIF when the circumstances are right.
4:23 PM Blogger: Well in THIS CASE (Centrum proposal) the circumstances are WRONG, period!
Tom Ford
4:22 PM Blogger: No, Centrum bought their ticket, the thought they knew what they were getting into, and then the market dropped out from under them.
Why do WE need to bail out a poor business decision? Do we ALL need to pay my grocery bill because the market has raised prices?
If it's so viable let them do it, after all they own it, not us, so don't be too quick to join the Centrum kool aid drinking cheerleaders please.
Tom Ford
Centrum has been offered win win proposals, but have turned them down because their "win" wasn't enough.
It is not about punishing Centrum, it is about getting the best development for he City in the long run. Current proposal is not the best the City can do.
The retail elephant has moved to Chesterfield were bricks .. .. mortar... and customers are there in abundance.
Whatever happens to Crestwood will not happen tomorrow....or any time soon. No one has mentioned how to pay our bills until something tangible does happen..36 months from now at the earliest.
@11:02
What deal, publicly or privately, has Crestwood countered Centrum's proposal with? If the city had something tangible in mind as an alternative, I would be very interested in seeing it/hearing about it.
12:34 PM, July 22, 2013 Get the tapes from the meeting for your self and hear the ideas and the promises from Centrum to have responses to those ideas by the next meeting, which he has failed to do.
If you want the 2nd quarter for the City are now and guess what, they are not going down!
Yup, it will take at least 36 months for anything to done with the mall. Who was the Mayor and who where the BOA members when Centrum purchased the Mall 5/6 years ago? Why didn't they get this done while they were in office? Why did they not run again and continue to work towards getting the Mall kick started? What was their problem then and now?
Regardless of the rest of the proposal, I don't see the CVS store on the corner of Watson/Sappington being a bad idea. Lord knows the population of Crestwood isn't getting any younger.
CVS store on the corner of Watson/Sappington on a bad idea if is built with TIF money.
10:39 AM Blogger: A CVS drugstore would be a great addition to the area now occupied by the old Amoco station'
I fear that will not happen though as the buyer of that property may have to contend with EPA cleanup costs due to the underground tanks.
Tom Ford
Ms. Wagner is just giving her opinion and showing her apprehension! It should not be necessary for persons who think differently to condemn her 12;45 7/21! I guess according to the blog manager, because she is unhappy about the mall, and stating how she feels, we can name her a "liberal" isn't that correct? I love it when people who do not agree with the majority are put in a xxxx pile and are made to feel inferior because they see things in a different way. So if your contributory comments are contrary to what is thought to be of any importance, don't say anything on this blog. In that case, this blog should not be called the Crestwood Independent but rather the Crestwood Dependent where everybody has to agree with those who have a difference of opinion from their's - you know "the liberals.
@10:35-
ALL opinions that differ with Mr. Ford's are either removed or called "liberal". Get used to it if you're going to be on here at all.
12:14 pm thanks for the tip; didn't know that. So I guess that this blog is a "lets make the manager feel good blog" or you get removed. Thought he was for the constitution and freedom of speech and the press. Well I guess I can consider myself a minion by his standards so we better watch ourselves.
he is, unless you disagree with him. Then you are a filthy liberal and he either removes your comment or challenges you to a public debate.
Well then I could listen to Rush Lembaugh and get the same thing. There was another man who also had the idea that everyone had to see things his way only he gained the power to put people to death - they called him Hitler! Hope we don't have a repeat.
Rush and Mr. Ford are both die- hard conservatives, both appear to believe that their opinions are the only ones that should carry any weight, and they are rude and disrespectful to anyone who disagrees with them. Check, check, and check. As for Hitler, well, don't know about that one.
Well my grandma and grandpa told me all about Hitler. We know enough about him and his rude and disrespectful ways among other things; and that is all I will say.
12:14PM BLOGGER:No, Just stupid liberal ones, sound familiar?
Tom Ford
stupid liberal ones what? What are you referring to?
9:20 Don't try figuring it out, you will go to bed tonight with acid reflux! He doesn't have a clue what he is saying; he uses the word liberal so many times, if a monkey were a conservative and running for President, he would vote for the monkey!!!!!
3:14 PM Blogger: Now you're catching on, In the case of liberals, I can become part of their very soul in nothing flat, and live there rent free!
You know, my Maternal Grandmother at 97 years old, until the end her body functioned perfectly but her mind had left her. So far as we know, that was the first time we hve ever had a liberal democrat in the family!
Tom Ford
it seems to me it's the other way around. I say that because I wonder how much time "liberal democrats" spend thinking about you, VS the HUGE amount of time you spend thinking about them. I think you have reversed who's living rent free and where, Mr. Ford.
7:06 AM Blogger: Well for one thing, they don't think, so......
Tom Ford
7:05 am better watch out, if you say anything at all that is different from Tom's thinking, he takes it off his blog and says it is because you used bad language; however, if he eliminates your comment it is because he has no answer and he knows you have a difference of opinion from his. Has nothing to do with language.
7:05 am Tom always has to bring party politics in everything. He accuses people of name-calling and omits THEM from his blog but he is the quintessential name caller with this liberal and conservative baloney.
Because that is all he is really interested in and will argue about it to his dying breath. You can see it in his 7:14 am comment when he says LIBERAL DEMS DON'T THINK. Now THOSE ARE NOT DIRTY WORDS but it still tells you how little he thinks of you if you are liberal.
This whole deal is suppose to be the Mall, but he has the need to always direct it toward party politics. One track mind is what he has. Tom has no idea about the mall except what he hears from others.
The fact that PGAV withdrew from providing planning services to the redevelopment of the Mall and John B.VICE PRESIDENT OF PGAV STATED IN THE TIMES TODAY 8/2 "BASED ON WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE THE BOARD'S "LACK OF UNDERSTANDING" OF THE PROCESSES ASSOCIATED WITH REDEVELOPMENT OF A MAJOR PROPERTY OF THIS SORT AND OUR DESIRE TO NO LONGER BE THE SUBJECT OF "NO" VOTES AT YOUR MEETINGS, WE ARE FORMALLY WITHDRAWING OUR PROPOSAL TO ASSIST THE CITY"
PGAV has been doing business with Crestwood forever and withdrawing their proposal is serious.
Schlink himself has nerve enough to try to defend the board by stating that "THE BOARD WAS NOT REALLY VOTING AGAINST PGAV. What in the heck is he talking about - not really voting against it?????The first thing you must do is hire a planning firm. Further John B also stated and I agree that "IT IS CLEAR THAT MANY OF THE BOARD'S OPINIONS AND PREMISES FOR ACTIONS (OR LACK OF IT) ARE NOT BASED (NOW HEAR THIS) ON FACTUAL INFORMATION".
I rest my case.
1:28 PM Blogger: So do YOU really want a planning firm that suggested that the public be left out of the discussions ?
In case you didn't know it, that was the suggestion made to the Board by the VP of PGAV (send in a FOIA request for his emails to the BOA for enlightenment please.)
Well one thing I did miss is the Libertarians. As Tip O'Neil (D) once said, "all politics is local." I agree, I call them as I read them here, Conservative, liberal, and now Libertarian, so understand it, or don't, I couldn't care less !
Tom Ford
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