Suit says Centrum execs shifted assets to avoid paying judgement.
http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/
article/20130814/CRED03/130819924/suit-says
-centrum-execs-shifted-assets-to-avoid-12m-judgment
So how do you feel about the prospects of a TIF for Centrum in light of this Chicago law suit ?
The lady won the case, won the judgment, and now is trying to collect. It seems that may not be the case if the Centrum has it's way.
Now in the vast scheme of things here in Crestwood this is no big deal. or is it ? You tell me.
Tom Ford
NO. 2027
article/20130814/CRED03/130819924/suit-says
-centrum-execs-shifted-assets-to-avoid-12m-judgment
So how do you feel about the prospects of a TIF for Centrum in light of this Chicago law suit ?
The lady won the case, won the judgment, and now is trying to collect. It seems that may not be the case if the Centrum has it's way.
Now in the vast scheme of things here in Crestwood this is no big deal. or is it ? You tell me.
Tom Ford
NO. 2027
posted by Crestwood Independent at 10:49
79 Comments:
Mayor of Sunset Hills has a good article in The Times paper. He has a few remarks to share. Read it and how they increased their commercial malls in that city.
Also don't get angry with the Feds. many like you are doing the same thing with Crestwood - going backward rather than forward and hurting our city along the way.
When you said Feds, don't you really mean the Obama Administration?
Why kt get mad at him if he is causing the problem?
Why not get mad at him if is causing the problem, is what I wanted to type.
And what does your post have to do with a law suite that Centrum is running from that resulted from a court case years before their proposal to Crestwood?
Do you know how to contact Centrum Development A.K.A. Centrum Partners? Do they have a web site, a phone number?
Are the "backward" Crestwood citizens to blame for the lawsuit against Centrum, or the outcome of the settlement? Is it the "backward" Crestwood citizens fault that Centrum doesn't have the $11.5 million to pay the plaintiff's lawsuit?
Why your focus is on Crestwood Citizens? You must be a former or current Alderman who while praying, marching, demanding "leadership" in Crestwood, was being laughed at by Centrum as a useful tool?
Click my name and check out Centrum's website if you really want someone to blame!
What's "backward" about not wanting to do business with a company who has a track record like Centrum?
Mayor Nolan talked about Sunset Hills using TIF money. That is what is keeping us from getting the OK from our board of aldermen to develop our Mall. If you read the Times, you could see that he talks about getting a developer using TIF money for development. That is the only thing holding up getting something done with the Mall in Crestwood. The board will not allow it unanimously. Never, ever. Doesn't matter who the developer us - if they want TIF money, the board won't approve it PERIOD. It's just like using a word - a bad word not allowed on this blog. It is one and the same. Yes, because we are doing nothing about this mall issue - we are going backward because time goes forward - get it? Maybe Not!
How have you arrived at the assertion that none of the aldermen on the board will approve a TIF to redevelop the mall?
All we know for certain, based on the recorded votes, is that the board is evenly split on its support of Centrum's redevelopment concept.
Martha Duchild
Please remember that Sunset Hills attempted to block our development once before. (The failed project that never got traction where they lost Bob Evans,)If they had the chance, would they do It again?
Forget bout Sunset Hills, we need to do what's best for Crestwood, and that's not another bowling alley or grocery store.
Tom Ford
2:52 PM Evenly split on its support for Centrum's concept??? Everyone on that board knows squat about redevelopment concepts. This one wants this and that one wants that. How long do the people of Crestwood suppose to wait? The board of aldermen and the mayor have had enough time to figure it out but they are as stubborn as they come. And in the meantime, the Mall is deteriorating. Nobody on the board would know a redevelopment concept if it hit them in the face. PGAV got fed up with dealing with them and John B has been in our corner for years. What a slap in the face to him. Giving up on our board is what I think has happened and a Mayor that needs a fire lite under him. Seems to me that nobody really cares anymore.
You have not answered my initial question. Is this because you have no evidence to support your assertion that the board will "never, ever" approve TIF for redevelopment?
Martha Duchild
Martha -- what do you want - something in writing regarding "supporting evidence"? Can't you see it for yourself? The way the board of aldermen posture themselves when discussing the Mall issue at the board meetings; the fact that they almost had a stroke when Centrum changed their deal from not needing TIF money to needing TIF money. Also if you read this blog, according to Tom, there will NOT be a TIF. You don't want one, and neither does your husband. The TIF is part is what is splitting this board.
If you read this blog, you should know that if you are for a TIF, you are a traitor. And still, anybody that would consider purchasing the Mall property, considering the economy - there isn't anyone who would be able to finance this project without assistance. Further, after all this time, we cannot even get to square one. We are still at "zero" in doing anything but creating chaos and frustration.
The government has made tax increment financing possible to assist developers in the financial development of properties. So Martha, if you want a piece of paper that says the board refuses to use TIF money, NO - I have no evidence but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see and read and hear that the board and the mayor are tap dancing around doing something. The board acts like they are building a new house for themselves the way they don't want this or that, etc. etc.
Heavens don't put a bowling alley in there or anything that might draw people to a new mall and bring their children. What's going through their minds? We can't even get PGAV to assist us because we have caused them so much frustration they don't even want to be affiliated with Crestwood any longer. Is that "evidence" enough. Or do you need more?
I have no 8 x 10 glossy as evidence regarding no TIF - but do you live under a rock? All you have to do is listen, read, keep watching things - we are going nowhere and doing nothing! Good God! You mean you can't see that! Who do these people on the board think they are?
We are not Frontenac Plaza, or Ladue or any other high-income city. But it sounds like that's what they want for this Mall property. They act that way on the board. We have Kohl's and it is doing great. But we could build a wonderful place for people, young people with children, with places for them to do things, in the summer we could have outside activities - but why can't we agree on anything. It's TIF - and that's a big part of why they cannot come together.
Lastly, look at all the time that has gone by - heavens - I will be dead and gone before I see the first brick or piece of mortar on a new Mall. We want so much.....that we will end up with a chicken farm!
9:37 PM, October 05, 2013
If you have no evidence, who do you make the claim?
Rumor, hearsay, reading tea leaves?
9:37 PM Blogger: "We are not Frontenac Plaza, or Ladue or any other high-income city. "
BINGO, and by your own words you make the case for NOT approving a TIF for a "high end" bowling alley.
We need a drawing card, Bass Pro Shop, Cabella's, Menard's, or the like, not some 10.5% tax destination that wont draw flies.
They aren't making dirt anymore and all we have left to use (without knocking down something) it that area, so use it wisely, not on a whim, or emotion.
Tom Ford
Well Tom, we are not going to get a Bass Pro or Cabella's either. Do you have evidence that we can draw those "cards" in!!!! You are drawing on the same card as I - "emotion" period! You are allowed to do that but not anybody else can on your blog - is that it?
If you want evidence and not emotion - then it sounds like you want to make a court case out of this. And all I have is what you have Tom just another opinion, no different. You have no evidence either about anything. I care about this city, is that not the same as what you want?
A No TIF from you seems very emotional as I hear your words. But Mr. 10:50 PM -10/5 PM, I never made a claim, but I believe what I said is true - like it or not. And Tom, if you don't want a bowling alley - that's not going to upset me - I just want a mixed-use where citizens can shop, bring their kids where they can have some fun as well, and make it family friendly. But everybody wants what they want....and we can't even get started!
If you don't want TIF money - then you build it - or find someone who can do it all. My feeling is you will not find anyone who can finance this without assistance - no evidence, just my opinion (good heavens)!
I have a difference of opinion than you and because it is not the same as yours, you want to string me up for it and according to Martha, I need evidence? Well No I Don't Need evidence to give my opinion. Lord have mercy!!!!
No, I want to string you up because you called people who do not agree with you "backwards"!
Would you rather we be "PROGRESSIVE"?
9;46 AM BLOGGER: "progressives?" You must mean liberals, right?
Tom Ford
8:38 AM BLOGGER: Not at all, I just do not want you to win my friend, that's all.
Tom Ford
9:46 am - Go back to bed! You are obviously hung over. You are turning my words into different phrases and you are misleading others by what you have said.
I said, in a comment, that we are going "backwards" as a city - if you can't read correctly try having someone read for you. This city is going backward is what I said - because if we are not moving forward (which we are not) we are moving backwards because time goes forward. We will turn our clocks back one hour soon but you are purposely mismanaging my words. But if it makes you feel good - go for it and say what you want, but it isn't true.
11:21 am "I just do not want you to win".
Tom, this isn't a game we are playing here. If that is all this means to you, well, I guess you play by your rules after all it is your blog. I don't expect you or anyone else to choose sides. I just don't see any potential growth when we do nothing but debate the Mall on the board of aldermen. This Mall has been debated to death. If we keep doing nothing, I won't be the only one who loses - we all will.
1:17 PM BLOGGER: We agree, This is not a game so why the rent a mob by the MCU?
Centrum want's their money back, we want something that will work. They offer failure in the first five years, we should not be paying for it, period!
Centrum owns the property, so if he is so sure of success let them develop it. They aren't and so It sits.
They have the interest bill, so how long before they sell it to someone with better vision? Sit still an let this take it's course, let them "show us they money'"
Tom Ford
You do make some good points Tom, I have to give you credit. Is that what the board's thinking also is? I am concerned that they are not telling us everything. But, I do have to give you this one - and it does make sense. Who is going to replace PGAV. Is that also going to be something the board cannot agree on?
Thanks again.
2:32 PM BLOGGER: I hope the Board looks t this as we do, time will tell.
PGAV twice changed their mind on what was best for thar development in a two year time frame. Who will replace them? I have no idea but the RFP has returned empty, so let's see who is interested in working with Centrum, if anybody
.
Tom Ford
So tell us backward citizens of Crestwood, just what the heck you think we should do with the a developer who cant pay their bills, through no fault of Crestwoods backward citizens due to law suit Centrum lost due to no fault of Crestwood's backwards citizens??
Tell us backwards citizens of Crestwood what you would do if you were in a leadership position to move us forward?
Dont you know that we are paying the price for having a mayor in office for 6 years who ran on
"bringing Crestwood back"? Who promised Centrum a TIF if they bought the Mall?
How would you fix the mess that Mayor left us with? Would you have rolled out the TIF bucks last summer only to find out Centrum was running from their debts? What would you have done then?
Hey pro tif supporters. I want to improve and increase revenue produced from Centrum property yet to be identified. I will not provide guarantees as to ROI or success. I will accept a reduced property tax liability and charge an extra tax to purchase merchandise at my location. These are the conditions you are obligated to adhere to from this point forward. You will obey me without question or resistance. You will think as I do. You will accept my commands and wishes with enthusiasm no matter the nature. Your morals and principles shall be as mine. I expect complete loyalty and admiration for this opportunity /gift I a bestow upon you.
These are my terms.
Centrum Properties
Sounds like Obomacare.
Before any more discussions take place with Centrum, Centrum needs to decide who they are.
It appears from the article that Centrum is running away from their financial obligations. What does this say about their commitment to future contractual obligations? More importantly, what does it say about their ability to get a commercial loan?
Centrum Partners included in their redevelopment proposal a history of the company, but they used information that rightly belonged to Centrum Properties.
The article stated that "... courts must weigh a number of factors to determine whether a new business is, in fact, a successor to a previous company, including everything from ownership to contact information to vendors. If they can see that this is really, in large part, a continuation of that business and they're benefitting from the prior business, a good judge will pierce the (corporate) veil and allow the plaintiff to get the judgement."
If Centrum Partners is proven in court to be a successor to Centrum Properties, then this decision will have an impact on Centrum Partners business with Crestwood.
Martha Duchild
Does anyone have a phone number to call Centrum and ask them questions?
Hello, supporters of the Centrum proposal, this is backwards Crestwood asking for Centrum's phone number.
"Hello--how are you
Have you been alright, through all those lonely nights,
That's what I'd say, I'd tell you everything,
If you'd pick up that telephone.
Hey--how you feelin
Are you still the same
Don't you realize the things we did were all for real not a dream,
I just can't believe
They've all faded out of view.
O.k. so no--ones answering,
Well can't you just let it ring a little longer
Ill just sit tight, through the shadows of the night
Let it ring for evermore."
Jeff Lynne
1977 ELO?
I wonder if any of this is known by MCU? I wonder if any of this is on the Let's Grow Crestwood Facebook site?
Besides my mind wondering, I wonder if this information would make a difference to the pro-development supporters? I wonder if KSDK's Leisa Zigman knows about this?
7:32 PM, October 07, 2013
YES! Ir is ELO! You are the BIG Time Winner in find the Centrum phone number contest.
Your prize is a weeks vacation in Hollywood, CA. at Centrum's development located there. You can pick up your tickets to the development at any Centrum property that you can find open.
Disclaimer. IE The fine print:
All fees, taxes, TIF, air fair, hotel costs, food and anything else are the expense of the Big Time Winner! Centrum is not responsible for anything.
Gee thanks! LOL!
Fact:
All companies above a certain size will get sued at one point or another.
Surely Crestwood can commiserate with a company that has been sued over an ex-employee's alleged wrongful termination--every time a Crestwood employee leaves, the lawyers emerge and Crestwood makes a settlement payment.
1:41 PM BLOGGER: Yep, by the way, the "alleged?" she won the case, no?
Tom Ford
"every time(?)a Crestwood employee leaves, the lawyers emerge and Crestwood makes a settlement payment."
FALSE!!
Yes law suits are always possible. The point is Centrum had its day in court to prove they are not at fault. Centrum lost and is now attempting to run and hide. Trust is the real issue.
7:40 PM BLOGGER: Or lack of it, their web site seems to have goner missing for some reason.
Tom Ford
Hey, is the Grow Crestwood facebook site still open?
From the Chicago Real Estate Daily
website:
"Judge Mulroy rejected Centrum's purported reasons for her dismissal, saying Ms. Arons was fired without cause."
"As a result, Ms. Arons must try to collect her winnings from the Chicago-based firm, which doesn't have an ownership stake in the many projects it has developed. Amid the 'nightmarish decline in the national real estate market,' Centrum's business is now 'worth a fraction' of what is was worth in 2002, Judge Mulroy wrote. 'Centrum remains in business but has suffered foreclosures and bank takeovers of many of its properties,' he wrote. Such setbacks make it tough for creditors, including Ms.
Arons, a highly regarded residential marketing executive before she joined Centrum in 2002."
I read from this article at one of last year's BOA meetings, shortly after Centrum first presented its redevelopment concept for the mall property.
Martha Duchild
3.34
Crestwood only makes a settlement Payment when they are in the wrong or their actions were unjustified. However this seems to be the norm as opposed to the exception judging by the thousands of dollars spent?/ given away which could have made a difference elsewhere.
If Centrum Partners is hiding their money from the court settlement, how can they pay to have their property in Crestwood maintained?
If they don't pay the tax for the property for the same reason, will the property go for sale on the court house steps?
Has anyone asked the pro Centrum group these questions or are they too busy hiding their faces in shame?
Where are you Ann Milford, according to Ms. Beasley, Crestwood needs leadership?
Drove by the old Northwest Plaza tonight on the way home from the airport. It is almost gone and they appear to be starting to build something... I thought I read that it was a Menards. How did they get them? Does anybody know who the developer is? Somehow they got that going while our mall looks like something from the Walking Dead. Perhaps our elected officials might want to find out because it is obviously working up north.
Poster 8:36 PM, October 10, 2013.. They used the big evil TIF, got some state tax credits, a good developer and a board of aldermen who had some cojones.
8:36 PM October 10:
The north county project isn't even off the ground and yet you have concluded that "it is obviously working up north." ?
How do you know it's working? What revenues have been generated thus far?
Martha Duchild
Key phrase 9:05 PM, October 10, 2013
is "good developer".
You still claiming the Centrum Developers/Partners was/is a good developer?
Why dont you call or email them and let us know what they say?
Martha... sorry to bust your bubble, but the Northwest Plaza project is well off the ground and working to build something... probably a Menards. Most of the mall has been demolished with excavation and other work well underway. Maybe you and your hubby should take a drive and take a look. God knows I'm tired at driving by our sad dead mall
Where is the MCU (not to mention move Crestwood forward) now that this lady needs help finding Centrums checkbook ?
Gee, and I thought they were for the good of ALL ! I guess a "rent a mob" isn't needed when the rule of law is counter productive to the agenda, right ?
Tom Ford
The Chesterfield project and the soon to be 'Old Chrysler plant project' is 'sucking up' all the available candidates for businesses which could come to a Crestwood facility. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
No need to apologize, as you have not "burst my bubble."
In fact, you did not answer my question. I asked what revenues have been generated thus far, and all you told me was that construction was underway, and that maybe a Menard's might go there.
Are you claiming that the redevelopment project can be called an obvious success simply
because construction has begun?
Martha Duchild
8:06 AM BLOGGER: not ifthe bird is dead !
Tom Ford
Martha:
I didn't say the Northwest Plaza project was an "obvious success". I said they have 1) demolished their mall 2) started to build something back and 3) apparently Menards is going in. But since you mention success...
I did a little homework today…. 1) they (The City of St. Ann) did successfully complete a redevelopment planning Study… conducted by none other than PGAV, 2) successfully received a positive recommendation from the St. Louis County TIF Commission, 3) successfully negotiated and approved a redevelopment agreement with their developer who 4) Successfully secured a $20+ million construction loan and $8 million in Brownfield Tax Credits and 5) successfully secured a Menards as an anchor tenant (According to my contacts, Menards has purchased 20+ acres to build a new store.
Looking pretty “successful” so far.
My point is that if a “north county” town can get the ball rolling in a positive direction, why can’t our fair city? It seems like the only thing Crestwood has been “successful” at lately is cutting services, creating controversy, bad headlines and good place for some weeds and vandalism to occur at the old mall.
7:19 PM BLOGGER: The only thing that is successful so far is the crane with the wrecking ball .
in five years the funds will be used up and the same fate will befall the "new" plaza as did the old one.
We need to do It better, starting with the developer
Tom Ford
Tom:
Really? How should we "do it better"?
Menards has purchased property to build a store. Don't think they would be investing in building a $10+ Million store and "going away in five years".
There is a Home Depot and Lowes nearby that have been there for a lot longer than 5 years and seem to be doing quite well.
Looks like the folks up north have got it together while we clearly don't.
How could this be?
I think it will be interesting to see if North County can support three home improvement stores.
With dwindling housing sales and failing public schools, I have my doubts.
Martha Duchild
To Oct. 11, 7:19 PM
Apparently we have different standards for gauging success. You have determined that what St. Ann has done thus far is "obviously working" (sorry for the previous misquote). I prefer to reserve judgement until actual revenues are generated, and the impact to existing businesses and the school district can be assessed.
Martha Duchild
2:07 PM BLOGGER: they have n interstate 1/4 mile away, we don't.
We have to "do it better" with the dirt we have, All real estate is not the same, St. Ann can't support a hardware store by its self and ALLZ parties concerned know it.
We WERE a destination, those days are over so now we must ind the right stores fo us, or we fail, simple.
By the way, that's not a bowling alley and a grocery store!
Tom Ford
Martha:
It is working in the sense that they have a project underway that 1) has developer that they have partnered with who has committed $20 million in private up front capital, 2) they now have a clean site ready for construction and 3) they have a major anchor tenant ready to build.
Please tell me what your vision is for our mall. By your methodology of determining if a project should get off the ground by “reserving judgment until actual revenues are generated, and the impact to existing businesses and the school district can be assessed” no project in Crestwood could ever pass your litmus test to use TIF.
Tom:
I-70 is no closer to the Northwest Plaza Redevelopment than I-44 is to Crestwood Mall. What is different, is that St. Ann apparently has been realistic with their expectations and focused on getting their project off the ground with an anchor that will fit in (I think Menards trade area is going to be just a wee bit larger than just the St. Ann City limits.
Crestwood Mall is never going to be the location of Bass Pro, IKEA or any other significant destination retail ever again.
Certain people in this community refuse to acknowledge that.
A Lifestyle\Entertainment anchored center, like Centrum has proposed is much more realistic and would be our best shot at bringing people back into Crestwood… who may just shop and support our remaining retail after having shelled out $100 plus bucks to take their family to a movie and dinner…. All of which we would get sales tax on.
10:34 PM Blogger: Are you kidding? I-70 is the next exit (1/4 mile if that) up from the Rock Road. There is no way to compare I-44 placement (Sappington or Barry Rd. exits) with that.
In case you haven't noticed Centrum has removed t5he signs from the area, are we haiing from someone ?
Tom Ford
Okay, since the back and forth seems to always end up nowhere, why don't Mrs. Duchild and Mr. Ford lay out their very specific plans for how to redevelop this mall. Then, I think, others could at least understand where you're both coming from and see the road you envision us on. Clearly both of you have clear, defined parameters that you believe should be followed, so please lay them out for everyone else, step by step. That way talking at cross-purposes can cease and perhaps more clear communication can take place.
3:25 PM Maybe after they lay out specifics for this Mall, they can go to Washington and take care of their "back and forth". I am sure they think they can settle that dispute too. Would love to see Tom in front of the Dems. and Reps. ripping up the Dems. like he does on his blog. I wonder how far he would get with his drivel. Would love to hear him say in front of congress that Obama Care is Communist or words to that effect!!!!!!
4:14PM BLOGGER: I will gladly meet you IFYOU HAVE THE NERVE TO DEBATE ME.
If you think I would change your dead wrong, just ask some of the politicians I have crossed swords with. Why would I not stick to the truth just because they can't ?
It must be so easy being a coward hiding behind "annonymous," gee, now try telling your looney left friends you really told me.
Tom Ford
3:25 PM October 14
You have made statements which I chose to rebut. There is no "talking at cross-purposes."
This is debate, which is what Tom's blog invites people to do.
My disagreement with your position does not obligate me to solve the redevelopment issue, nor does it impose the same burden on you.
I have been quite clear on my opinion that Centrum's concept won't work for Crestwood.
Martha Duchild
I don't have a position and have never stated one. I was hoping to hear your solution. So much for that...it's about the response I expected.
4:49 Easy to say on your blog what you think, but there would be no way you would say the same things to worthy politicians in front of everyone including the media.
You can talk the talk all you want Tom but you have done some really bad name-calling about the Pres. and the "libbys" - that I don't mind one way or another. But there are others that will chew you up an spit you out with your obnoxious words and name calling.
To me, I could care less. However, others would rip you apart for taking your ideology to a whole new level. Mox Nix to me!
9:24 PM Blogger: They are what they are, and they know it!
First of all the media would never broadcast anything that was not a pro Obama driven piece (doubt me, take a look at the MSM every night!)
Now would I do it, your darn right I would (and have) as I am a believer in the Constitution, the bill of right's and the freedom's connected to them.
In case you missed it I have given my real name, a photograph, and an email address on EVERY post I have made here since I started this.
YOU and people like you (hide in the shadows) have NEVER done so, and yet you choose to comment on the Blog that I provide for you at no charge !
By the way, when you become a politician you take off the cloak of protection afforded to you, and you expect to be hit from all sides. Democrats, republicans, and independent's know it, why do liberals not seem to get it ?
Now YOU have a very easy choice to make, do you continue to read and comment (at no charge or peril to you as your "anonymous," or do you go ?) Your call !
Tom Ford
To 6:54 Oct. 14
If I may ask, why were you hoping to hear my solution?
Martha Duchild
because generally people fall into one of two camps: either those who dislike but have a viable alternative to toss out, or those who dislike for the sake of disliking, just because they can. I assumed you were the former. Your hesitance to offer what you think might work tells me you may well be the latter. That is disappointing, but not unexpected, given that there have been to crumbs tossed along the way, just what you disapprove of. You are well within your rights to disapprove. I had simply hoped there was more to it than disapproval.
my apologies, that was supposed to read "no crumbs tossed".
Actually I do have ideas for the former mall site, I just did not express them to you (an anonymous poster on a blog). Instead, I communicated my ideas to people who are in a position to act on them if they choose.
I learned long ago that one should never complain about something without proposing a solution, and I took that lesson to heart.
good for you.
Martha & Tom:
What are your plans for the mall? I can't wait to hear.
Since I doubt we will get an answer on that one... maybe you guys know the answer to this one Have we eliminated the Finance Department at City Hall? I heard it has been "Outsourced". Not sure how you do that and follow Generally Accepted Accounting Principals (GAAP).
Crestwood is dying death by 1000 cuts. Streets are crumbling, employees are leaving and we can't afford the ones that want to stay. Mall looks like something out of the Walking Dead.
But hey... we told that evil 1%er Developer from Chicago were to stick it.
You reap what you sow..(which explains why the BOA keeps us all in stitches..)
9:13 PM Blogger: What MY plans are doesn't matter at all as I do not own the property, hence it's a moot point.However as we all know I will weigh in none the less.
That property, were it mine would remain vacant until I could find a mix of retail that would last for the long haul.
I am talking about places like Denny Dennis Sporting Goods, a Petco store a garden shop, a sidewalk café, as well as a mix of office and condo's.
To expend a TIF for anything that has a possible failure rate in the first ten years is extremely poor business sense.
I believe we should just sit on our collective hands and wait until Centrum sells the property to whomever and then let's discuss the viability of ANY public assistance.
Centrum has taken down the signs, put up concrete road blocks (onamacades?) and is hunkered down trying to avoid their Chicago law suit, so nothing will happen at the Court's for a while.
Let's use that time wisely and for once forget the emotions, forget the MCU, forget "move Crestwood Forward," forget meeting off site, forget an up scale anything, and decide what WE are willing to give up for what in return.
That said, remember this is Crestwood, not Ladue, so expect that there will be some retail types that will not consider locating here, let's get the ones who would !
Tom Ford
"I am talking about places like Denny Dennis Sporting Goods, a Petco store a garden shop, a sidewalk café, as well as a mix of office and condo's."
there has been yelling and arguing over any duplication whatsoever of any store even remotely nearby. Johnny Mac's is right up the street, there's already a Petco a few miles away in Kirkwood, and the garden aspect is covered with Sappington Garden shop just down Sappington. I don't get why when others suggest something that's already in existence it's pure evil, but when you do it's a viable option. frankly I agree with a few of those options, though I doubt Petco or Petsmart will come in because they both already have locations very nearby.
7:35 AM Blogger: Well you wanted to know what sort of retail I wanted to see, and you got it.
You will mote that I never said they would come, only that it was the type we need, not duplication of existing stores.
Indeed it will be a tough job to lure anyone of that sort to "move," but it can be done, just look at who "moved" to the Bluff's.
We really do not need to settle for a project that will fail in less than five years due to the wrong mix, or high tax rate (10 1/4% with a TIF.)
Tom Ford
Let's just tear it down and build a park.It's not making any money now..at least let's have a place to walk the dogs of Crestwood...who knows a bandstand for concerts etc..something low key with no expectations would succeed in Crestwood to heck with all the grand plans..!
7:50 AM Blogger: Not a bad idea but who is going to reimburse old Saul the 17 Million he bought it for, and what about the EPA issues ?
Tom Ford
Saul will take the tax write off and 'high five' out of town.
( thinking phew!!! that was a close call).
Remove the contamination using government money and make a fishing pond.
3:08 PM BLOGGER: Government money? That' us, remember?
Tom Ford
No it isn't Tom. All the government money comes from China,,,,
1:40 PM BLOGGER: Well, true enough but we still send OUR funds to Washington to help pay for those who will not work, and then there is the illegal issue!
Tom Ford
Post a Comment
<< Home