Former Ward Two Alderman takes issue with the BOA. Could he do it better?
http://www.callnewspapers.com/Articles-Opinions-i-2014-01-08-270614.112112-Anthony-others-miss-the-point-on-redevelopment-of-mall-Pickel-says.html
Well I guess that once you become a former Alderman (elder statesman?) the light becomes brighter and your able to see ALL the answers, right?
The EX Alderman from Ward Two had a perfect opportunity to "stay the course" by remaining on the Board as he was not yet termed out, but he (like three others) decided not to run again. Now that's all fine and dandy, but does that make him an expert in City planning?
The BOA did issue an RFP for a "planner" and there were no takers. The planner that was of record resigned from the position, so what else would he have us do to find one? By the way, the last one, after the one that resigned recommended a park be built, so why look any further?
I noticed that he also said that " I believe it's the former elected officials you mentioned and the hundreds of Crestwood residents who staged rallies and attended meetings demonstrated their wishes that the Mall be re developed." Again does he mean the MCU group (most of whom do not live here,) as I don't remember seeing anywhere near "hundreds" demonstrating" anywhere in Crestwood. If so, there were not "hundreds." by anyone's count (unless one count's as the DNC chair does, 1=5,000.)
Do we ALL want something done with the old Mall? You bet we do, but we (I) do not want to give up a TIF, TDD, or CID to get something that will fail in lass time that it takes to sunset the give away.
A poor business decision by Centrum is not our fault, nor is it our responsibility to bail them out of THEIR "elephant in the living room." The property is for sale, someone will buy it and all the posturing, complaining, and 10 person demonstrations will come to an end.
Now as we do not own that part of Crestwood, let's wait and see what the next offering is, who knows, we may yet see a thriving retail grouping that will please everybody, but somehow, I doubt it, and so it goes.
Tom Ford
NO. 3041
Well I guess that once you become a former Alderman (elder statesman?) the light becomes brighter and your able to see ALL the answers, right?
The EX Alderman from Ward Two had a perfect opportunity to "stay the course" by remaining on the Board as he was not yet termed out, but he (like three others) decided not to run again. Now that's all fine and dandy, but does that make him an expert in City planning?
The BOA did issue an RFP for a "planner" and there were no takers. The planner that was of record resigned from the position, so what else would he have us do to find one? By the way, the last one, after the one that resigned recommended a park be built, so why look any further?
I noticed that he also said that " I believe it's the former elected officials you mentioned and the hundreds of Crestwood residents who staged rallies and attended meetings demonstrated their wishes that the Mall be re developed." Again does he mean the MCU group (most of whom do not live here,) as I don't remember seeing anywhere near "hundreds" demonstrating" anywhere in Crestwood. If so, there were not "hundreds." by anyone's count (unless one count's as the DNC chair does, 1=5,000.)
Do we ALL want something done with the old Mall? You bet we do, but we (I) do not want to give up a TIF, TDD, or CID to get something that will fail in lass time that it takes to sunset the give away.
A poor business decision by Centrum is not our fault, nor is it our responsibility to bail them out of THEIR "elephant in the living room." The property is for sale, someone will buy it and all the posturing, complaining, and 10 person demonstrations will come to an end.
Now as we do not own that part of Crestwood, let's wait and see what the next offering is, who knows, we may yet see a thriving retail grouping that will please everybody, but somehow, I doubt it, and so it goes.
Tom Ford
NO. 3041
posted by Crestwood Independent at 04:05
50 Comments:
well, I agreed with his letter.
If I might ask, with which part, nd why please? No right or wriong answer, just curious.
Tom Ford
I agreed with this part:
Unfortunately these are all questions for which we have no answers because our elected officials punted when presented with the opportunity to hire a professional planner who could have provided such insight.
Initiating a lengthy process by acquiring critical information and professional guidance would not have been "caving" to anyone's demands. It's actually called due diligence.
3:27 PM BLOGGER: you do know that the Board issued a RFP but there were no takers, right?
Sort of takes that out of play, no?
Tom Ford
"... the Board issued a RFP..."
Too little too late. No planning company with any self-respect would submit a bid to Crestwood in the current climate where they would likely not get approved because 4 aldmermen would vote them down for reasons unrelated to their qualifications. Those bridges are burned for now.
Bids (for anything) take time and money to put together--no one wants to go through the motions for no reason.
I find it hard to believe Centrum would buy the property with out some kind of plan accompanied by the tacit approval of someone in authority...Now it's just a line on the ' to do ' list when other more profitable ventures slacken off..or an opportunity to sell comes along ,time is oin their side not Crestwoods.
Nice to see Mrs. Pickel is standing by her husband, even if he is wrong.
10:12 AM Blogger: By your remarks it seems that no one at all would give a bid to anyone!
"Bids (for anything) take time and money to put together--no one wants to go through the motions for no reason."
That is NOT the way you do business, in the 39 years I spent in the contracting business I gave bid's EVERY TIME I was asked for one!
If you don't believe that's the way it's done, ask the man who would be Mayor, I bet he does it all the time as well.
And by the way, Centrum bought the property BEFORE the current economic disaster, now THEY are stuck with it, not Crestwood.
Tom Ford
Tom, you are confusing bids (RFB) with proposals (RFP) there is a significant difference between the two especially in the detail of the response. Bids are given out like candy, proposals are not.
10:01 AM Blogger: No, not really, an RFP is a request for PROPOSAL, meaning that YOU propose to do the following with ?
A RFB IS A REQUEST FOR bid to a specified project or item requested.
A RFQ is a request for a specific quote on a specific item or scope of work.
WE issued an RFP. By it's very nature the responders would have to take some time to research the requested project and then send it on to the City.
Any cost's incurred for that proposal would be a "cost 0f doing business," and as such part of the every day business of the company issuing it.
No, there was no confusion on this end, and nice try on the semantics however.
Tom Ford
No one wanted to waste the time and money on responding to the RFP because it was known that 5 of the 8 sitting aldermen were going to vote against them, no matter who responded, because of their strong dislike to Centrum's plan and/or TIF request. PGAV withdrew because they believed the continual negativity associated with the project was damaging their company's reputation. Why would any reputable firm want to take the same risk?
1:48 PM BLOGGER: Now we're up to 5 Alderman? I thought it was 4 before, what happened ?
Also, " it was known," by whom,you? I didn't know that, and I don't know anyone who did or does.
Also ANY company who thought they could make a profit would respond, so what are you trying to tell us?
Tom Ford
Now you are just showing how out of touch you are within the business world. RFx is the current nomenclature when requesting responses, with the exception of an RFI.
3:26 PM BLOGGER: Well I have been gone for A couple of years, but from what you have said I doubt you were ever successfully in it.
Tom Ford
Knowing what we know now about Centrum, thank God the BOA didn't grab their ankles for Centrum's "plan".
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/01/13/half-of-u-s-counties-havent-recovered-from-recession/?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop
Yes indeed if only the MCU had prevailed ! I guess I may know one thing about business after all.
Tom Ford
@8:44
Your links shows St. Louis County and all of the surrounding areas (except the city) have recovered from the recession. St. Louis County has two new outlet malls, Express Scripts is expanding, Boeing is expanding, Monsanto is expanding, etc.
And Crestwood continues its "renaissance" with an Aaron's Rent to Own and a King of Kash.
Mary Duncan, (aka anonymous)
Expanding? Not in my back yard is the cry you will hear from any Crestwood citizens when a current business wants to expand it's hours or when a new business wants to open in Crestwood.
8:44 PM Blogger: Yes it does and that's the reason I put it up there.
If all of the rest of the County is doing so well it tells me that Crestwood, being "land locked" will be faced with the fact that we may only get "living," and not retail.
Now we know that the man who would be Mayor would love to use the Mall as a reason why he should be elected.
However, it is a fact that he can do no better than Mayor Schlink (and quite possibly worse,) as if it were a viable retail location, Centrum would have had the lessors on the dotted line, they didn't.
One can huff, puff, and posture all they want but the times have changed, the Mall is no longer a prime location, and unfortunately we all know it, now it's time to admit it.
Tom Ford
10:33 PM Blogger: Indeed the "NIMBY" syndrome is alive and well in Crestwood.
We were all spoiled by a location that clustered most everything we wanted or needed in one tidy location, that's changed.
We must get over the concerns that a business will cause ............. (fill in the blank,) and get on the "good neighbor" train before it leaves the station for good.
Face it, if we want retail, restaurant's, or rental we get cars, people, and some noise, it goes with the flow that also brings in funds to fix our street's.
Three things we must do to help ourselves "grow Crestwood" and they are, modify the sign ordinance, drop the tree requirement's (they block the sign from the street,) and ditch the "NIMBY" mentality.
If we do those three things even I could attract new business to Crestwood, so imagine what someone with experience in the field could do.
Tom Ford
I remember a 'Land Locked' Crestwood Mall with the Parking lot full to Capacity ..so don't give me that old and worn out excuse.
'If you Build it they will come'.
Or as They say in Crestwood 'If they meet 10,000 regulations and do as we say then you can build it'.
7:46 AM BLOGGER: Good for you, so do I, but that was then, THIS IS NOW!
With your attitude this morning I woulden't build a dog house in town. Fortunately the vast majority of our citizens thoughts are not reflected in your remarks.
Try to have a better day, or don't, your choice.
Tom Ford
Tom, you're right about what needs to be done to get business rolling again. It's time that someone gets the Economic Development Committee meeting again and gets them to be proactive. Even one of its members asked at a BOA meeting back in November why they hadn't met in over a year and how to convene a meeting. It seems to have fallen on deaf ears. The EDC should be one of the more active citizen boards right now! They should be working with existing businesses, trying to attract new businesses, as well as acting as a liason between the P&Z, sign, and adjustment boards and business to get things done that may otherwise hinder development.
Tom, you make some good points on things that can be done to help make for a better business environment in Crestwood. The 8:51 am poster makes an excellent point on the Economic Development Committee not meeting.
There is simply no excuse for that. I agree with Mayor Schlink on some things, and disagree with him on some things, but as the mayor, he can remove chairpersons and appoint new ones, and when you have a complete failure of a committee chair to convene a meeting, it is time for a change on that committee, and that ultimately comes back to Mayor Schlink. I know Forrest Miller has been appointed to serve on some state commissions now, and maybe he is just too busy, or maybe his heart isn't in it, but for whatever reason, he has not done anything with that committee in some time, and I think everyone can agree that Economic Development is something that Crestwood could use some more of.
8:51AM & 11:52 AM BLOGGERS: I am going to pass your comments on to Mayor Schlink, I agree that having a Board in nme only is a major waste of talent.
Let' s see where it goes.
Tom Ford
"Or as They say in Crestwood 'If they meet 10,000 regulations and do as we say then you can build it'."
And what regulations would your remove?
You may remember a parking lot full of cars at the old mall, do you remember what was where Gravois Bluffs now stands? Do you remember what the mall at the intersection of 270 and Manchester looked like?
Do your remember the demographics and population of Crestwood and South St.Louis when our parking lots where full?
If you do, you will know that none of the things listed when the parking lot were full are the same as they are now.
Mrs. Duchild has responded to Pickel in the Call with her own letter to the editor:
http://www.callnewspapers.com/Articles-Opinions-i-2014-01-15-270754.112112-Crestwood-officials-show-leadership-with-vetting-of-Centrum-mall-plan.html
Well will the man who would be Mayor and his supporters sign onto a commission on economic growth, or are they all hat and no cows?
The mayor is all for having a citizens commission for the ad hoc purpose of "growing Crestwood."
Will we see some of the MCU supporters and those who want to do anything with the old Mall volunteer for the group, or will you just sit back and complain?
This is YOUR chance to help your community, will you do it, or will you just remain in the shadows?
Oh, by the way, ANNONYMOUS is NOT an option, so "show me" what YOU can do for your City!
Tom Ford
Are the members of MCU aware that the "man who would be Mayor" is on record as being against section 8 housing in Crestwood?
Yet he supports corporate welfare for Centrum.
Interesting.
@10:40 a.m.
I would hope that both Mr. Schlink and Mr. Roby are against Section 8 housing, as well as any citizen with 1/4 a brain.
As awful of a social policy as corporate welfare is, it does usually result in wealth and development for the area in which it used--just ask Fenton, Des Peres, Maplewood, Kirkwood, Sunset Hills, et al.
10:40 AM BLOGGER: I am sure you know that there is, and has been section 8 housing in Cretwood for quite some time now
So far I have not seen the negative results you intimate in your post. By the way, what were you intimating anyway ?
Tom Ford
That statistically, crime increases follow an increase in Section 8 housing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/us/09housing.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0
If you are going to go with residential instead of commercial for the old mall site, at least put in market instead of government subsidized housing so the tenants can meaningfully support Crestwood businesses.
MCU and Mary Chubb aren't gong to like this news about the man who would be mayor.
6:32 AM Blogger: Well as far as I know there has been no increase since the inception of the section 8 housing we now have.
It is of course possible that it will, but to state that it will seems to run counter to what is placed here all the time.
How many posts have stated that we must help the down trodden, maintain the welfare programs, and back such ideas such as Obama care?
My goodness, which one is it, or is it just a case of NIMBY fever, and while I am at it, where does your candidate stand on "emanate domain?"
Tom Ford
I don't have a candidate yet Tom, although it sure as heck won't be anyone who is a proponent of expanding Section 8 housing in Crestwood.
11:15 AM BLOGGER: Well so far you don't have to worry, unless " the man who would be Mayor " leans that way.
I just find it interesting that your so animate about the concept.
Tom Ford
As awful of a social policy as corporate welfare is, it does usually result in wealth and development for the area in which it used--just ask Fenton, Des Peres, Maplewood, Kirkwood, Sunset Hills, et al.
These places are cleaning Crestwood's clock when it comes to being pro business\economic development. Crestwood had a spurt in the late 1990's and early 2000's with Best Buy\Schucks, Sams, Kohls and Shop'n Save and then it suddenly stopped. Why? Who was responsible for this good period of growth? Can we get them back? They clearly must have known something.
Crestwood Mayors in the late 1990 and early 2000's were
Jim Brasfield
Jim Robertson
Tom Fagen
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
And Roy was not the mayor in the late 1990s and early 2000's.
I believe his name was Roy Robinson, not Robertson, for the record.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
"Crestwood had a spurt in the late 1990's and early 2000's with Best Buy\Schucks, Sams, Kohls and Shop'n Save and then it suddenly stopped. Why? Who was responsible for this good period of growth? Can we get them back? They clearly must have known something."
Crestwood Mayors in the late 1990 and early 2000's were
Jim Brasfield
Jim Robertson
Tom Fagen
Roy was not the mayor in the late 1990s and early 2000's He had nothing to due with the growth spurt during that period.
4:24PM BLOGGER: No personal insults unless yo sign your real name to your post.
That's been the rule since day one, and when I see one, it's gone.
Tom Ford
11:42 PM BLOGGER: See above!
Tom Ford
Please be specific and provide data that supports your conclusion that these three mayors created these businesses as you assert. The fact that you are mayor at the time does not prove any influence on the result.
I ask for the evidence to be specific, measurable, and quantifiable.
One example is Fagen was a sudo mayor. His tenure was to short to have had any measurable impact.
Same thing with Robertson.
Brasfield left office after inflicting additional debt building the aqua center which we struggled to pay off and then left..
The question was who was the Mayor during the lat 1990's and early 2000's. The answer given was correct.
Would you apply your theory that "The fact that you are mayor at the time does not prove any influence on the result" for our current Mayor as he deals with the issues left him by the previous Mayor?
I ask for the evidence to be specific, measurable, and quantifiable, and to include support for your statement that "Fagen was a sudo mayor. His tenure was to short to have had any measurable impact." Especially in light of your position that "The fact that you are mayor at the time does not prove any influence on the result"
Brasfield left office after inflicting additional debt building the aqua center which we struggled to pay off and then left..
Sorry. The 1/2 Park Sales Tax was passed specifically to pay off the debt. Subsequent CA's/Mayors starting with Roberston\Greer used the $$ to fund park operations to free up other $$$ for other purposes.
10:42 PM Blogger: Was Mr. Brasfield the Mayor when we were judged a "point of sale City?"
That little trick by Mr. Westfall, and the County council has cost us more money over the years than the law should allow.
We were paying almost a Million a year to places like Jennings, and Wildwood, and I believe we still are on the hook for some large amount even today.
This should be a cause that WE ALL can get behind, namely stop the bleeding to places like Wildwood where a dog house costs more than most homes in Crestwood.
At last count Fenton is in for this change as well as a few other towns, so while we have a Republican House and Senate in Jefferson City let's go after it!
Tom Ford
10:42 PM Blogger: Was Mr. Brasfield the Mayor when we were judged a "point of sale City?"
No, Brasfield was not Mayor in 1992 when Westfall got the change.
My point was that the Park Sales tax always generated enough revenue to pay for the purpose that it was passed for... rebuilding the pool and running it.
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